Legislators stand on college steps to bar entry
Erroll Davis Jr. is an engineer and businessman by training, having served as CEO of two major utility companies. He now serves on the boards of directors of General Motors and Union Pacific, and as chancellor of the Georgia university system, he has brought a business perspective to academia that frankly, it badly needs.
In a conversation earlier this fall, for example, Davis said the nation’s higher education system operates under “a medieval business model that has changed at the margins, but it has to change dramatically.”
The current delivery system is too capital-intensive and can’t be sustained long-term, he said. University faculty have to become “more productive and more efficient,” and while he says he’s willing to defend tenure, “I will not defend its excesses. Tenure was never designed as a cover for boorish behavior or insubordination.”
In other words, Davis knows the importance of focusing on real problems while ignoring the distractions. And the debate over illegal immigrants in the state university system is clearly a distraction in his eyes.
Those who claim otherwise make three basic claims, Davis explained: Georgia colleges and universities are overrun with illegal immigrants;
those illegal immigrants are costing state taxpayers millions of dollars;
they are also taking slots in top universities that would otherwise go to academically qualified Georgians.
Davis, who later announced his retirement on June 30, 2011, then rattled off the reasons why none of those concerns is valid:
Of the 311,000 students enrolled in the university system, 501 — one-sixth of 1 percent — are undocumented, he said. Of those 501, every single student pays out-of-state tuition.
As university spokesman John Millsaps said this week, the university system actually makes a profit on out-of-state tuition. In other words, the 501 undocumented students do not generate costs for taxpayers and subsidize their counterparts’ education.
Furthermore, of those 501 undocumented students, only 29 attend the five state schools in which applicants must compete for a limited number of slots. (Those five schools are the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia College and University, the Medical College of Georgia and Georgia State University. The other 30 schools in the state system are open admission.)
Just two of those 29 undocumented students in competitive-entry schools are taking slots that would otherwise have gone to academically qualified Georgians, Davis said. And as a result of a change in policy, those two will be the last two. No undocumented students will be admitted to schools that do not allow open admission.
Nonetheless, Davis was reminded, state legislators seem intent on making the ban complete, barring the undocumented from enrolling anywhere.
He listened, then paused to measure his words.
“I’m hopeful legislators will spend their time on legislation that will solve problems,” he said.
Did I mention that Davis is also an optimist?
The next legislative session doesn’t begin until January, but state Rep. Tom Rice, R-Norcross, this week pre-filed legislation that would allow Georgia to join South Carolina as the only two states in the country that outright bar undocumented students from attending state colleges. There’s every reason to believe that sometime next spring, Gov. Nathan Deal will be signing such legislation into law.
It’s important to note that other states greatly affected by illegal immigration, including Arizona, balk at such a step. And there’s a reason for that.
It is widely acknowledged across the political spectrum that our borders have to be tightened as much as possible and that hiring practices have to be improved. Illegal immigration is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed.
But in practical terms, it is also true that most of the eight to 12 million illegal immigrants already in this country are here to stay. There’s no political capital to be reaped at the moment in acknowledging that reality — to the contrary, telling the truth comes at a high cost — but it is reality nonetheless.
The question is whether we keep those people as a perpetual underclass, available to do our dirty work but little else, or whether they will be allowed to contribute their talents and ambitions. Georgia seems intent on taking the first option.
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355 comments Add your comment
Fred
November 19th, 2010
9:40 am
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:24 am
yeah, cause I just picked up a truckload of swedish day-laborers at home deopt just the other day.
++++++++++++++++++
Make that Eastern Europeans and I’ll assume you are a walmart executive. Or go to Lawrenceville and get yourself a truck load of Serbs, or Croats. Cruise Buford Highway near 285 and pick up a truckload of Chinese illegals.
You will find that you can see better if you pull your head out of your ass.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:41 am
And Paul,
” Yeah, we need huge program reductions and eliminations. But these folks in Congress gotta work up to it.”
I would prefer if they don’t do away with huge programs for the elderly — or at least until I get mine taken care of.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:42 am
“Why do you hate Car Talk?”
and Garrison Keillor!
and wait! wait! don’t tell me!
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:42 am
““since the left has been saying what Uncle Sam gives to NPR is “small”, then let’s start with that small budget cut.”
“Why do you hate Car Talk?”
And Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell ME?
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:42 am
USinUK,
I’ll take mine diet, thanks.
pat
November 19th, 2010
9:44 am
Home is where they belong, and this ain’t home. If I can do it legally so can they.
If they spent half as much energy trying to fix their own country as they spent invading ours Mexico would be the Garden of Eden. We’d probably want to jump the fence to get there! EXCEPT, Mexico has far harsher illegal immigration penalties than we do. You will go to a mexican prison or be deported.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:45 am
“Gov.-elect Nathan Deal plans to give up an unprecedented level of control over his assets and debts before he takes office. ”
Because now he has a free house to live in!
I’m still gobsmacked this buffoon is our governor-elect.
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/nathan-deal-to-put-746645.html
Fred
November 19th, 2010
9:46 am
LOL Bosch. how long do you think it will take Nathan steal to use the Gov’s mansion for collateral for a loan and get IT foreclosed on?
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:46 am
Leg Lamp,
I’m all for that “small” budget cut for NPR. Sure, it will eliminate perhaps the only real fair and balanced media voice in this country, but nobody really cares about that anymore anyway. I’m willing to sacrifice NPR so I can sit back (with Bye Bye’s bowl of popcorn) and watch the Congressional Republicans boast for two years how they’ve finally de-bloated our federal budget and reduced the deficit… — by a whole fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent! — Hahahaha! Thanks Congressmen! Y’all are sooooo good! Next act: The new piercings in the earmark initiative.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:49 am
Fred,
Will do. Thanks.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:49 am
Fred,
It’s the perfect situation for him — he’ll do like Sonny and use his influence as Governor to make all kinds of business deals while he’s in office — so when he leaves office, he’ll be much better off than before.
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:49 am
“cause I just picked up a truckload of swedish day-laborers at home deopt just the other day”
I needed some when I tried to put together a bed from Ikea. bahjeebus
what the heck is going on???
November 19th, 2010
9:50 am
Doggone/GA@9:19 am
“Bottom line is we need every person possible to get a college degree”
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. Not everyone is suited to having a college degree and of those that do, not all are even WORTH $50,000 a year.
It’s that “everyman deserves a college degree” thinking that contributes to the illegal immigration problem. You educate people beyond their intelligence (As my Father used to say) and they then think they are worth too much to take those low paying jobs.
And no, that’s not elitest thinking. I don’t have a college degree myself and I’ve done just fine. We need better career paths for people who prefer “working with their hands” besides pusing them into college.
Even ditch diggers can benefit from targeted training and better their skills.
—————–
Dog
I totally agree with that concept.
My brother has a degree but loves working with his hands. He is now doing HVAC and the work is steady.
On the other hand I have a BA and MBA and have been in IT for over 25 years and make less than he does.
Hard to compete with low wages in India.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:50 am
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:37 am
“Car talk”? You mean like that old TV show “My Mother the Car”?
jm
November 19th, 2010
9:51 am
This is comical:
“Deal will give a trustee unilateral authority over his homes, his investments, his half-interest in an automobile-salvage company — “everything,” said Randy Evans, the governor-elect’s attorney. ”
100% of nothing is nothing…. this is shoveling his financial problems away from him personally so when all the sh-t hits the fan, well… someone else is dealing with it. I mean this is the right thing to do. But he’s doing it solely for the wrong reasons…
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/nathan-deal-to-put-746645.html
Deal = Blago of the East. Thanks Deal voters. Krike.
Fred
November 19th, 2010
9:51 am
And don’t forget Ty, we have a quite invasion from our boring white cousins to the north, the canucks coming here to get away from the french canucks lol.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:51 am
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:42 am
Ah, the old “if you’re not for funding it you must HATE it”. Well, I don’t spend my money on a Mercedes Benz, but I don’t hate them.
jm
November 19th, 2010
9:51 am
By Feb. 1, Deal is scheduled to repay $1.6 million of a loan he guaranteed for his daughter’s failed business. A year later, Deal and a business partner are supposed to pay off a $2.5 million loan. And the next year, he and his partner will face yet another due date, for a $350,000 loan for the auto-salvage company.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Bosch – 9:42 – MWAH!!! I knew there was a reason I liked you!!
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Leg Lamp – ah the old “I want my cake but I don’t wanna pay for it”
jm
November 19th, 2010
9:53 am
haaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. what a hoot. We have a bankrupt governor.
Besides his salary as governor of about $140,000, Deal will be eligible for a federal pension of about $52,000 a year, based on nine terms he served in Congress. He and his wife receive about $48,000 a year in Social Security and other retirement benefits, according to tax filings. In all, Deal should earn about $240,000 a year while governor, not counting income from business ventures or investments.
But he will not transfer new income into the trust, Evans said. And Deal recently indicated he already has tapped into his largest liquid assets: retirement savings accounts set up to benefit him and his wife, Sandra.
Georgian
November 19th, 2010
9:53 am
Great blog to share. Jay Bookman calls out the lies about the ban of access to higher education for undocumented students. Denying education to anyone who qualifies and is willing to pay for it is morally reprehensible. Call OUR Senators and ask them to support the DREAM Act by calling 1-866-996-5161!
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:53 am
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:46 am
Let’s assume for a second that the scenario you mentioned plays out. So you’ll be laughing at a rep controlled Congress if all they do is reduce the deficit by a fraction of a fraction of a percent. Then you’d probably laugh your arse off if the dems were still in control and added a few more trillion to the deficit. There’s not enough popcorn in the world to get you through that.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:54 am
Oh and I must take a double shot for the whole “Nathan steal”. Yeah…because he’s corrupt…right? I get it…awesome! For someone who has no sense of humor or an eye for sarcasm…you, sir, sure are witty.
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:54 am
The Canucks are taking all the acting jobs in Hollywood! What’s an American thespian to do???
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:54 am
“well… someone else is dealing with it.”
Yes, somebody else IS – which might be a good thing as far as his debt obligations go. But if he has truly put both his assets and debts into a blind trust, he could emerge from the governor’s mansion with no house and no business. If selling them is what is needed to pay off the debt, a blind trust trustee can DO that.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:54 am
USinUK,
I LOVE that show!
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:56 am
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Wrong again. I just don’t want a Mercedes. I can “like” a lot of things but it doesn’t mean I’m interested in buying them. You know, fiscal responsibility. Oh…….you don’t know.
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:56 am
Leg Lamp,
Don’t insult my intelligence. I know how that mulit-trillion dollar deficit got there. Do you think I was born last year? Criminey, you wish we were all that stupid don’t you?
Georgian
November 19th, 2010
9:57 am
Jose Crow and George Wallace still live in Georgia. This is morally reprehensible.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:57 am
Finn – “The Canucks are taking all the acting jobs in Hollywood! What’s an American thespian to do???”
forget the Canucks – do you know how many limeys are on the teevee??? House is just the tip of the iceburg!
Fred
November 19th, 2010
9:58 am
jm; Thanks for ruining my day. I’ve been in denial since election day, but you brutally shook me out of it with those posts. Well maybe not all the way out of it. I still can’t really believe that Georgia voters put such an obvious crook in to office……………..
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:58 am
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:56 am
“I know how that mulit-trillion dollar deficit got there.”
Yep, during Pelosi’s 4 years as Speaker the deficit went up by $5 trillion.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:59 am
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:56 am
By the way, I don’t think you’re stupid. Just wrong. I don’t play the “call someone stupid” game.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:59 am
Leg Lamp – I have no debt. none. niente. nada. not even a mortgage. so, take your “fiscal responsibility” and peddle it elsewhere, mister.
and, whether YOU choose to use it or not, doesn’t mean something isn’t a public service.
jm
November 19th, 2010
9:59 am
Nathan Deal: The Flim Flam Man
Fred
November 19th, 2010
10:00 am
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:54 am
What’s an American thespian to do???
+++++++++++++++
Work on getting rid of the lisp and keep on licking…………….
jm
November 19th, 2010
10:00 am
Sorry Fred. Truth stinks… doesn’t it? And our Congress is run like fiefdom for personal favors. There are days when I think we need to start over…
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:00 am
Bosch – 9:54 – one of the best programs on the radio – right up there with click and clack for its ability to nearly make me wreck the car due to laughter
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:03 am
Leg Lamp,
While you’re tossing out numbers, why don’t you share with us the actual cost of invading two countries and waging nearly ten years of war while cutting taxes?
Yeah, the deficit does look bad when you take the war expenditures out of their little hidey hole under the bed and stick them in the budget where honest people would have put them in the first place. (I’d say “nice try” but that would just be a feel-good participatory award to bolster your self esteem. I’ll wait ’till you earn it.)
Del
November 19th, 2010
10:04 am
Jay, USinUK,
I was out and will be out a good bit the rest of this AM and PM. I read GB’s post at 7:42 and he pretty much said what would have been my reply. Jay, you’re correct about birthright citizenship, it’s in the Constitution. I’ve heard some say that they’re legal remedies that can block illegals from gaining automatic citizenship for their new born children without amending the Constitution but I’m not a legal expert. USinUK , while I agree that this issue is minor in comparison to the broad issue of illegal immigration, I believe it still can’t be ignored. Unfortunately, this whole immigration issue has become political where the objective is vote pandering and building a voting bloc among one ethnic group. I’ll bet that those who who legally immigrated to this country in recent years and went through the long, expensive and complicated process aren’t in favor of amnesty in any form. My wife sponsored her sister whose five years into the process. She’s waiting in her home country and will be for at least another 5 years.
larry
November 19th, 2010
10:04 am
All i want to know is when the state is going to buy the mini-Bass Pro Shop down the road from my house. Why it would be a great tool to promote hunting and fishing and camping in the North Georgia mountains.
Just be extra careful when you leave the parking lot, a lot of people come around that curve going 70 mph.
Im sure ole’ Nathan will give us taxpayers a great deal.
jm
November 19th, 2010
10:05 am
Someone needs to put soon to be “Sitting Governor” Nathan Deal on this list.
http://www.law-margulies.com/CM/BankruptcyArticles/BankruptcyArticles3.asp
He should be sitting in a prison. Not the Gov seat. Whatever…. where’s that grand jury?
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:06 am
Del – “I’ll bet that those who who legally immigrated to this country in recent years and went through the long, expensive and complicated process aren’t in favor of amnesty in any form.”
EXACTLY my point!!! There are thousands – if not millions – of people who have paid the fees and gone through the process – giving these other people a pass is a slap in their faces.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:06 am
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:59 am
Congrats on the debt free lifestyle.
Virtually ANYTHING can be considered a public service, but for crying out loud, if you no longer have the money to pay for all the “public service” programs, then something has to be cut. It’s really quite elementary.
I had a business fail many many years ago before starting another business that was wildly successful. During the down time we cut out cable TV and other things we liked but were no longer willing or able to pay for. I just want our govt to make cuts in EVERY program regardless of how small. Military, foreign aid, entitlements, nothing should be sacred and spared the scapel. Just my opinion anyway.
larry
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
You even have a great big sign up on top of a pole. Its all neon and stuff.
Maybe i can get an appointment and he and ole’ Casey will meet with me in the Lt. Governor’s office. Ill be sure to wear a long sleeved shirt in case they get riled up and want to twist my arms.
pat
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
If you didn’t like Deal, you should have put up a more formitable opponent than Barnes. I didn’t like it much either, but we’ve had Barnes and I was underwelmed. For the record I think Perdue was worse than both of them…
what the heck is going on???
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
jm@9:51 am
By Feb. 1, Deal is scheduled to repay $1.6 million of a loan he guaranteed for his daughter’s failed business. A year later, Deal and a business partner are supposed to pay off a $2.5 million loan. And the next year, he and his partner will face yet another due date, for a $350,000 loan for the auto-salvage company.
———————————–
Dammit, we give a homeless guy a roof and now he wants us to pay him too?
He must have been one of those lazy unemployed bums expecting a handout. LMAO
jm
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
Am I lost??????
Where’s the vitriol today? Del and USinUK agreeing? Leg Lamp being nice to USinUK?
Bosch, help us out, here. Or maybe Harry C or someone can throw a grenade.
j/k all
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Good morning,
Totally off topic, but there was an interesting mention of Jay in the Creative Loafing’s cover story….
“”I think they’re improving the tone of their suburban coverage,” notes Williams. “But even though they’ve sent Cynthia [Tucker] to D.C., dissolved the editorial board and put Bookman online, they’re trapped because people still think of them as the liberal paper.”
http://clatl.com/atlanta/burbs-or-bust-the-ajc-has-left-atlanta/Content?oid=2364218
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:03 am
I don’t need your accolades but thanks for your consideration.
The wars. Hmmm, let’s see. I was against invading Iraq so let’s take that one out. I, like Obama later professed, thought we should go into Afghanistan to disrupt the Taliban. So, this being the case, just what’s you point?
larry
November 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Maybe i should get Casey to wear sunglasses , his big eyes scare me.
Fred
November 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Following the lead in Georgia jm, the Republicans will probably run Donald Trump for president next time out………….
jm
November 19th, 2010
10:12 am
what the heck? – of most important note, he won’t be using new income to pay off old debts…
“But he will not transfer new income into the trust, Evans said. ”
In other words, he’s stealing from his lenders. At least, that’s how that would normally be interpreted. The trust is being set up to insulate him from all his old problems. If I was a lender, I’d be furious. (kind of like I’d have been a furious GM bondholder, had I been one)
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:12 am
Leg Lamp,
On this I agree with you: I just want our govt to make cuts in EVERY program regardless of how small. Military, foreign aid, entitlements, nothing should be sacred and spared the scapel.
Funny, Candidate Barack Obama said the same thing in one of his debates with Senator McCain. McCrusty was talking tough about taking an axe to the budget. Obama said it would make much more sense to use a scalpel to carefully trim the fat without cutting arteries… or something to that effect. The defense budget in particular could use some serious liposuction — not for the military personnel who have been low-balled and short changed — but for the defense contractors and their corporate welfare.. .billions and billions for stuff we don’t really need.
chuck
November 19th, 2010
10:13 am
AmVet, (Thank You for your service), I’ll stand with you as a NEOCON and condemn those employers that hire illegals. I think they should be PROSECUTED and the fines should be so HIGH that there would be NO BENEFIT to hiring illegals. That would essentially empty our country of the 12 million illegals.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:14 am
jm
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
“Where’s the vitriol today?”
AmVet hasn’t gotten totally warmed up today.
Del
November 19th, 2010
10:14 am
USinUK, Amen to that. The immigration back log of those going through the process legally is several years behind. I can’t see how we should allow those who’re in the country illegally jump to the head of the line.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:14 am
Hi jm!
too hungry for vitriol (hate late breakfasts – they totally screw up the rest of your day!)
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
10:15 am
“AmVet hasn’t gotten totally warmed up today”
Maybe he’s been playing Ty Webb’s drinking game and then forgetting to actually post anything with “neocon” in it!
Fred
November 19th, 2010
10:16 am
pat
November 19th, 2010
10:09 am
If you didn’t like Deal, you should have put up a more formitable opponent than Barnes. I didn’t like it much either, but we’ve had Barnes and I was underwelmed. For the record I think Perdue was worse than both of them…
+++++++++++++++
Either Handel or Baker would have been palatable. I agree with you on Barnes as well. I didn’t vote for either Barnes or Deal. Also as in independent, I didn’t “put Barnes up.”
I’m disappointed in both the pubs and the dems for the two scumbags they decided were the “best” to lead our State. Dissapointed isn’t the right word…….. sickened is closer………
Del
November 19th, 2010
10:18 am
Chuck,
The fines for a first time offense should be heavy and a second offense should be considered a felony for senior management officials.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:19 am
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:12 am
I agree with defense cuts, but they come with a price. The military sector of jobs pays pretty well and deep cuts would add to the unemployment rosters, but cuts are still needed. We just don’t have the money.
I also think foreign aid should be cut but many liberals will scream and point to how little we actually contribute to foreign aid in our overall budget. It doesn’t matter. Obama likes to talk about everyone having “skin in the game” with the health care package, however, those wanting everyone to have skin in the game don’t seem to make the same request when budget cuts are discussed.
I read where NPR gets a little over $400 million each year. Don’t cut it all out, but knock off 50%. Same with other non-essential programs. If we get our house in order then we can reconsider increasing the funding to these programs later.
It’s time for tough love.
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:19 am
And from Maria Saporta’s blog:
“So the AJC’s attempts to appeal to conservative, Republican suburbanites by alienating its urban readers is not paying off — to the detriment of Atlanta and to the detriment of itself.”
http://saportareport.com/blog/2010/11/gift-of-building-does-not-absolve-the-atlanta-journal-constitutions-anti-city-slant/
Seems like trying to appeal to “conservatives” at the expense of loyal readers has not really worked…I think Obama might be learning that lesson as well.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:20 am
jm – to totally freak you out –
I 100% concur with chuck’s 10:13 (it’s something I’ve been saying for YEARS)
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:20 am
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
10:15 am
Ha! That or he’s googling to find a synonym for “neocon”.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:22 am
“synonym for “neocon”.”
nouveau stick-in-the-mud?
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:22 am
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:19 am
So the AJC is trying to appeal to rural conservatives? Just how? I live in a county where you cannot get an AJC through subscription OR at a convenience store. They just don’t come here.
chuck
November 19th, 2010
10:22 am
USinUK, that totally freaks ME out!!!
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:23 am
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:22 am
Naaaaah. That just doesn’t have the same effect.
chuck
November 19th, 2010
10:23 am
Del, I would have no problem with that.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:23 am
chuck – 10:22 – I hear ya!
chuck
November 19th, 2010
10:24 am
Neo con synonym? How about Political savant?
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:24 am
Leg,
Any “cut” to the federal budget basically equals job loss.
jewcowboy,
It’s just easier for the wingnuts to scream the AJC is a liberal rag — just like it is for them to scream that the economy was ruined by the Dem led Congress, but if you ask them to give a story or piece of legislation, crickets.
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:25 am
Leg Lamp,
“So the AJC is trying to appeal to rural conservatives?”
I believe the pieces are referring to suburbanites…not rural dwellers.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:25 am
chuck – you mean, like Rainman?
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
10:27 am
have a good weekend!
Fred
November 19th, 2010
10:27 am
Del,
And how do you know? As a small business owner, I get a social security card/number from an employee. I put it on my paper work. I hold all the taxes I’m supposed to. How do I know if that number is being used by 1 person or 1000 people?
WHat does a green card look like? Let me give you a clue, it isn’t green. The issues aren’t quite so cut and dried as you pretend they are.
You hire someone who has a valid work permit. They work for you for years. Suddenly their work permit is pulled. How do YOU know? The Gov’t doesn’t tell YOU. So even though you have followed the rules and does reasonable checking of documnets, suddenly YOU are now a criminal? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense does it?
You can’t tell me that the US Gov’t doesn’t know that Juan Jiminez, social security number 123-56-6789, is working everyday in 5000 locations across the Country where taxes are withheld from every location and no tax return is EVER filed.
Don’t kid yourselves that illegals don’t pay taxes. They do. They also pay union dues and fund pension accounts that they will NEVER be able to use. it’s a shell game with Uncle Sam shuffling the shells……….
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:27 am
You too USinUK…
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:27 am
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:24 am
I’m well aware of that. I’m just saying the military sector has high paying jobs and we actually something out of it (whether you support the product or not), so if you cut deeply you’ll have more issues on the unemployment side.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:28 am
” it isn’t green. ”
They are actually pink, right?
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:28 am
Leg Lamp,
Yes, tough love! The problem with tough love, historically, is that it’s not applied evenly. I also realize there would be a lot of hardship cutting defense contracts. (I love the F-22’s as much or more than anyone! OMG… goose bumps! Aaaaaaaaahhhhhh!) But, I’ve been telling my Congressman that he should practice what he preaches. I keep hearing “The private sector, NOT the government, should create jobs!” Yet, Lockheed and many others keep suckling from the gov’t milk sac, with their GREAT-paying jobs with good benefits, to produce and do things we don’t need right now. He’s perfectly fine ending UI benefits for regular folks, and telling people to do the bootstrap thing and take care of themselves. He should have the stones to walk into Lockheed-Martin himself, and tell his own constituents that they, too, must share in the hard times and find some private sector income.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:29 am
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:25 am
So can I say the AJC is “bigoted” against “rural dwellers”?
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:30 am
Bosch,
“but if you ask them to give a story or piece of legislation, crickets.”
Righto! If any “conservative” does try to demonstrate their claim of the AJC as a “liberal rag” they invariably point to Jay or Cynthia…editorial staff…while simultaneously ignoring Wingfield and Wooten. They never seem to be able to address the actual news that takes up, oh, about 95% of the paper.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:30 am
Leg,
” so if you cut deeply you’ll have more issues on the unemployment side.”
Exactly, so you pay them a wage where they can put their money in the economy and buy more discretionary items, or do you cut their job, pay them unemployment, which will most likely go towards utilities and mortgage, food, not much else for 49 (or whatever the number is now) — no discretionary money, less money in the economy, less taxes gained, and more unemployment numbers?
Quandry, huh?
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:31 am
…. if they can build something as *bleeping* *bleep* *bleep* AWESOME as an F-22, then I’m thinking they can put their heads together and build something that will make us energy independent, and also turn a profit by selling it to other countries. That would be REAL progress!
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:30 am
Ab absolute quandry. I don’t profess to have all the anwers, but no sector of the federal budget should escape unscathed.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
matti
“The defense budget in particular could use some serious liposuction — not for the military personnel who have been low-balled and short changed — but for the defense contractors and their corporate welfare.. ”
Debt commission’s recommending a three-year pay and bonus freeze. Good.
The way the system works, as I understand it, is Congress authorizes and funds a program, say for an armor regiment or a wing of F-22s. In addition to appropriating the money to buy and maintain the equipment, the military uses tables to figure out how many people, military and civilian, by grade it takes to staff that program. Then Congress appropriates the money for the payroll (which can’t be used for other things, like maintaining equipment).
So, if we say “we’re gonna cut programs in Defense” then we don’t just say “we’ll deactivate this Army or Air Force unit in Germany or wherever” and transfer the stuff somewhere else. We take it off the books. We reduce the manpower associated with that program. That’s where the big bucks are.
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
I really wonder where or who these numbers of illegals comes from. Is 8 to 12 million the new made up accepted number? It was 20 million not long ago and I suspect that number was just as made up, 8 to 12 is a pretty big range that most certainly casts doubt on that count.
Fair question. Far as I could tell, just based on some stories I’ve read the past few months, it seems Pew Research’s numbers are as well regarded as anyone’s. Might want to dig in to their methodology here:
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=126
they’re saying it was down from a peak of 12 million in 2007, to 11 million in 2009. It’s probably safe to assume that it’s declined somewhat since then with the crappier economy, although I don’t know about 3-million-crappier…
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
Leg Lamp,
“So can I say the AJC is “bigoted” against “rural dwellers”?”
You probably can have it delivered by mail…you just have to pay more. When he was still alive, my grandfather received The Tennessean by mail everyday in Florida…he just had to pay for it.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:33 am
You too, USinUK!
Hey, didja’ know you’re gonna get a Bank Holiday for the wedding day?
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:35 am
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
Here’s what adds to the rub. The DOD enters into a contract for a certain amount of hardware at a negotiated price (cost plus or whatever model that is used). If the govt cuts the amount of units purchased, the price goes way up for future purchases. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:35 am
Leg Lamp
Your 10:19 – you like posting stuff that makes lalaland libs’ heads explode, don’t you?
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:36 am
jewcowboy
November 19th, 2010
10:32 am
Nothing quite like a day old newspaper.
I remember the days when you could subscribe to the morning paper, the Constitution, or the afternoon paper, the Journal.
Disgusted
November 19th, 2010
10:38 am
Debt commission’s recommending a three-year pay and bonus freeze. Good.
The dollars spent by federal and defense employees buy the same amount as the equivalent dollars spent by the civilian sector. This whole deficit-reduction thingy is predicated on the assumption that reducing the deficit will spur economic growth elsewhere. I remain skeptical about that. It sounds like the same argument that was made for cutting taxes.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
10:38 am
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:35 am
Gotta keep ‘em on their toes.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
10:39 am
Leg,
I agree that no department should be left out — but I think when it really comes down to what it REALLY means to cut all this spending people want — a majority of the people aren’t going to like it.
I mean, do you think it’s going to fly well with voters to extend Bush tax cuts and cut Social Security? Let the rich off while cutting money to the elderly on fixed incomes?
Good luck with that GOP is all I have to say.
Do you think that the insurance companies are going to sit by and let the GOP repeal the part of the HC Bill that requires folks to have HC insurance? How do you think the good parts of not dropping people from coverage when they are sick or covering folks with pre-existing conditions is getting paid for? Huh?
Good luck with dealing with your bosses (insurance companies) GOP, when that comes up.
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:40 am
Paul,
Yes, the manpower is where we can really see the extra fat. While our soldiers are grossing $20-$30K/yr, we still have contractors in Iraq making 5-10 times that. I know of several men who, like so many, are finding few options in the local job market, but who can kiss the fam goodbye for six months at a time, and go work for the many companies overseas who are funded with our tax dollars, which we never hear about back home because reporters are tired of getting shot at over there, for salaries they could only dream about here in Georgia. Good for them, but not good for the deficit, which is apparently our top national priority right now according to the Congressional powers to be.
Matti
November 19th, 2010
10:41 am
I apologize for the deplorable sentence structure of my last post.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
10:42 am
matti 10:31
THAT I would like to see.
Leg Lamp 10:35
I understand (and have seen in articles) wildly different cost estimate per unit put out by one or the other Defense agencies. Depends on who they’re doing the analysis for and what the parameters are (kinda like the CBO analysis of the health care bill
),
But, as with the F-22 mentioned, they track the research and development costs, then they go into production and track those costs. So (simple, not including all, here) they add the R&D costs to the production costs, divide by the number of F-22s and get the ‘cost per aircraft.” If the reduce the number of F-22s they’re going to have, they still have the R&D costs to spread over a smaller number of aircraft – so the price per unit is more expensive.