Legislators stand on college steps to bar entry
Erroll Davis Jr. is an engineer and businessman by training, having served as CEO of two major utility companies. He now serves on the boards of directors of General Motors and Union Pacific, and as chancellor of the Georgia university system, he has brought a business perspective to academia that frankly, it badly needs.
In a conversation earlier this fall, for example, Davis said the nation’s higher education system operates under “a medieval business model that has changed at the margins, but it has to change dramatically.”
The current delivery system is too capital-intensive and can’t be sustained long-term, he said. University faculty have to become “more productive and more efficient,” and while he says he’s willing to defend tenure, “I will not defend its excesses. Tenure was never designed as a cover for boorish behavior or insubordination.”
In other words, Davis knows the importance of focusing on real problems while ignoring the distractions. And the debate over illegal immigrants in the state university system is clearly a distraction in his eyes.
Those who claim otherwise make three basic claims, Davis explained: Georgia colleges and universities are overrun with illegal immigrants;
those illegal immigrants are costing state taxpayers millions of dollars;
they are also taking slots in top universities that would otherwise go to academically qualified Georgians.
Davis, who later announced his retirement on June 30, 2011, then rattled off the reasons why none of those concerns is valid:
Of the 311,000 students enrolled in the university system, 501 — one-sixth of 1 percent — are undocumented, he said. Of those 501, every single student pays out-of-state tuition.
As university spokesman John Millsaps said this week, the university system actually makes a profit on out-of-state tuition. In other words, the 501 undocumented students do not generate costs for taxpayers and subsidize their counterparts’ education.
Furthermore, of those 501 undocumented students, only 29 attend the five state schools in which applicants must compete for a limited number of slots. (Those five schools are the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia College and University, the Medical College of Georgia and Georgia State University. The other 30 schools in the state system are open admission.)
Just two of those 29 undocumented students in competitive-entry schools are taking slots that would otherwise have gone to academically qualified Georgians, Davis said. And as a result of a change in policy, those two will be the last two. No undocumented students will be admitted to schools that do not allow open admission.
Nonetheless, Davis was reminded, state legislators seem intent on making the ban complete, barring the undocumented from enrolling anywhere.
He listened, then paused to measure his words.
“I’m hopeful legislators will spend their time on legislation that will solve problems,” he said.
Did I mention that Davis is also an optimist?
The next legislative session doesn’t begin until January, but state Rep. Tom Rice, R-Norcross, this week pre-filed legislation that would allow Georgia to join South Carolina as the only two states in the country that outright bar undocumented students from attending state colleges. There’s every reason to believe that sometime next spring, Gov. Nathan Deal will be signing such legislation into law.
It’s important to note that other states greatly affected by illegal immigration, including Arizona, balk at such a step. And there’s a reason for that.
It is widely acknowledged across the political spectrum that our borders have to be tightened as much as possible and that hiring practices have to be improved. Illegal immigration is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed.
But in practical terms, it is also true that most of the eight to 12 million illegal immigrants already in this country are here to stay. There’s no political capital to be reaped at the moment in acknowledging that reality — to the contrary, telling the truth comes at a high cost — but it is reality nonetheless.
The question is whether we keep those people as a perpetual underclass, available to do our dirty work but little else, or whether they will be allowed to contribute their talents and ambitions. Georgia seems intent on taking the first option.
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355 comments Add your comment
Hoof Hearted
November 19th, 2010
8:24 am
I’m still reeling from Vetobama’s post. He/she used “zeitgeist” and “Robespierre” in the same post. I think that deserves the pompous d-bag post award. Could he/she not work in: guignol, avuncular, surfeit, legerdemain, obstreperous, contretemps, mélange, or solipsistic? I got most of these from a great website: http://www.pompousasswords.com/www/index.htm
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:25 am
“You both seem pretty darned sure that there is no question about the 14th Amendment”
Neither one actually said anything approaching that. Since some has already posted about it here it would be just a tad difficult to claim there is no “question”, now wouldn’t it?
The issue of the seriousness of the debate is just about on a par with the seriousness of the “debate” about Obama’s birth certificate.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
8:25 am
“Just two of those 29 undocumented students in competitive-entry schools are taking slots that would otherwise have gone to academically qualified Georgians, Davis said.”
Man, it would really suck to be one of those only 2 families. Jay or anyone in his peanut gallery, why don’t ya’ll “take one for the team”, and nominate your children to make the sacrifice.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
8:25 am
GB – “Google it. You will find lots of discussion, volumes of discussion, of this matter concerning which you say there is no serious legal dispute. ”
ooooooo … discussion … well, then, that makes it officially 1) a viable legal option and 2) means that there is a huge number of people behind it.
you could also google aliens in Area 51 and find lots of discussion – doesn’t mean that it’s true or that there is a huge number of people that cares one way or the other
Jay
November 19th, 2010
8:29 am
Ty, if you read the piece, you will also discover that those two are the last two, that policy already in place will prevent ANY recurrence.
So problem solved, right?
AmVet
November 19th, 2010
8:31 am
Hoof Hearted, loved that. Another site worthy of bookmarking this morning.
And as an amateur logophile, that is right up my alley!
And to your point, it is most amusing when some here feign being articulate…
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
8:32 am
GB, and how, pray tell, is is possible for you to know the intentions of the drafters of the 14th amendment with such “certainty”? dare I say, there are historians and Constitutional scholars who have dedicated their lives to the study of this document, and the are not qualified to speak as to “intent”. but go ahead, keep listenting to the blathering nativist politicos and pimps whose “intent” is transparent. did you ever stop to think that undocumented immigrants are the “slaves” (cheap labor) of the 20th/21st century? this isn’t about law, it is about the essence of law ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).
Hoof Hearted
November 19th, 2010
8:33 am
Well, Doggone, I’m sorry that when I saw the people on NBC Nightly News months ago interviewed about their opposition to immigration reform I did not commit their names to memory, nor did I record the date and time of the news report in anticipation of referencing it for you many months later to defend my position that there are those who are adamantly opposed to any attempts to stop or decrease illegal immigration. I guess I imagined it, and clearly everyone is in favor of stopping illegal immigration, which is why the problem has been solved.
Mystified
November 19th, 2010
8:34 am
It’s worth mentioning again…Birthright citizenship is in the constitution and was an answer to ensure the children of slaves were given citizenship. Slavery has been gone for well over 100 years.
Birthright citizenship does nothing but reward illegal immigration and tie the hands of ICE. I mean really, are you going to deport the parents of a 3 year old citizen? It’s time to amend the constitution.
That said….These kids who grew up here but have no documents are Americans in their own mind. They grew up here. They had no part in the decision to enter the country illegally. They know nothing of Mexico nor do they have any ties there. It’s not like they walked across the border yesterday to attend college. How about a little compassion here? We allowed illegal immigration to go unchecked for political expediency. Let’s deal with that now and show just a little compassion to those who want to be Americans and have been here for so long.
It’s one thing to pander for political points but let’s get real. There is no political will to deport millions of people who already live here. What does it accomplish to allow them to stay, but deny them the right to better themselves.
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
8:35 am
Vinnie, “a proven fact”? let’s see the data…..
chuck
November 19th, 2010
8:35 am
Jay, I’m wondering, where did those 501 go to high school, middle school and elementary school? AND, if 501 are going to college, how many THOUSANDS are in public schools and have gone through public schools that are NOT in college? While it may not be a problem, YET, for the board of regents, IT IS ABSOLUTELY A PROBLEM FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS as we waste millions on ESOL programs and tens of millions educationg children for OTHER COUNTRIES that pay NOTHING for that education. At the same time we are furloughing teachers, cutting programs for GEORGIA kids and stretching our educational infrastructure to the brink of disaster to educate ANOTHER COUNTRY’S KIDS.
Southern Comfort
November 19th, 2010
8:35 am
GB
I didn’t say your position wasn’t serious. The Supreme Court ruled on immigrants long ago. There’s been no rulings on illegal immigrants, but the only people inside the US borders who are not “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof” has historically been diplomats and their familes and such. Even though illegal aliens have no legal status in the United States, they are still subject to our laws while in our country so they are subject to our jurisdiction.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
8:35 am
damn, hoof … that was harsh … those are some of my favorite words!
particularly legerdemain because it’s one of those words that makes sense when you know its french origins … (literally faint/slight of hand) leger de main
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:36 am
“I’m sorry that when I saw the people on NBC Nightly News months ago interviewed ”
Then all we have to go on is YOUR word of what they said. Sorry, but that’s no kind of proof at all.
Mary Elizabeth
November 19th, 2010
8:36 am
andygrdzki @ 8:05
So glad the French, my husband’s birthright, did not refuse second language viability in their nation. English would have had a difficult time finding expression in France had that been the case. Another example of closed-minded, not out-reaching vision, and one based on fear, I might add.
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
8:36 am
If I Google 4-day work week, I find lots of talk about it, too!
That must mean it is important! Me likes 10-hour days. More time to rake leaves.
PLUS, I need a day off from two rigorous days of watching football!
Hoof Hearted
November 19th, 2010
8:37 am
Am Vet, I fancy myself a wordsmith, although it probably doesn’t show on this blog. I too am a logophile (had to look it up!), but I can’t stand unnecessary pomposity! Harumph!
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
8:37 am
“Birthright citizenship is in the constitution and was an answer to ensure the children of slaves were given citizenship”
considering slaves weren’t even considered as 1 whole person – much less citizens, that doesn’t seem to make sense.
got a linkee to support that statement??
what the heck is going on???
November 19th, 2010
8:38 am
Even though it is only one half of one percent of the college crowd and they will be paying out of state tuition maybe, they will still be illegal after graduation. Where will they be employed?
If they are employed by a fortune 500 company the company will be libel for any fines for hiring them.
If they can’t get jobs in the US where will they go?
Some of the current crop of students either were born in the US or came here illegally years ago. This is the only country they know.
I have more concerns about the ones who have more recently arrived and are working at the jobs US workers WILL do (construction, janitoral, etc.). These jobs once paid minimum wage and above. Also with more experience wages were increased.
There are very few jobs here for the younger people who have no plans to attend college.
Where are the entry level jobs for our younger generation?
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:40 am
“I mean really, are you going to deport the parents of a 3 year old citizen?”
Why not? That child is below the legal age for making his own decisions. There’s no reason you can’t deport the parents. If the parents choose to take the child with them, as most probably would, that’s not illegal. When the child reaches legal adulthood he can THEN decide to keep or to renounce his American citizenship.
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
8:41 am
here’s my questions for to ’send ‘em back/what part of illegal do you not understand” parrots; when did this become and “issue”? seems to me “illegal aliens” didn’t just show up in January 2009. the fact that lawmakers in GA want to invest time and resources to “root out” 1/6 or 1% of the student population at state universities, as if these STUDENTS are some sort of threat to the state, well seems to me we need to ‘deport’ the State Assembly from the capitol and “give the jobs” to folks who are truly interested in GOVERNING.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
8:41 am
Jay,
yes, I did read the entire article, unlike anything with “Palin or “Fox News” in the title. In those cases I simply scroll to the bottom and count all the witty ways the lefty commenters can come up with names for the republicans(repugs,republiconns, etc.). I’ve even developed a drinking game where one has to drink everytime “Amvet” uses the word “neocon”. I support the policy. So hopefully it will prevent any recurrence. My comment was directed at those who do not support the policy. If you are not included in that group, then I apologize.
Haywood Jablomo
November 19th, 2010
8:43 am
Si senor.
Nosotros son no problemo.
Brad Steel
November 19th, 2010
8:45 am
Let’s not let silly facts get in the way of legislating some good ol’ fashion southern-styled racism.
Good and all southern-styled.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
8:45 am
“I’ve even developed a drinking game”
that explains a LOT
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
8:47 am
USinUK
I resemble that remark.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:47 am
“that explains a LOT”
It does indeed!
Matti
November 19th, 2010
8:50 am
But but but….. Mr. Bookman, we NEEEEEEEED to hate on the little brown young woman and blame her for all our problems. How DARE she follow her parents to this country when she was a tiny girl. Somebody has to take a fat angry finger in the face so we can feel better about ourselves!
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
8:50 am
ty – don’t drink and blog
carlosgvv
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
Once again, Business wants illegal aliens for cheap labor. Politicans want them for votes. The Catholic Church wants them for parishoners. Against this powerful trinity, the American people don’t stand a chance. Or did any of you think 12 million illegals got here by some kind of accident?
Mystified
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
USinUK
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=540
Dred Scot case ruled a black man born to slaves had no grounds to sue in federal court because as a “Negro and a slave” he could not be a U.S. Citizen. The 13th amendment freed the slaves and the 14th was passed to overturn the Supreme Court decision in the Dred Scot case.
This provision has been challenged before but has been retained.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
“don’t drink and blog”
A good general rule, though I would say there’s a few people that come here that might do better if they drank MORE!
Bob
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
UGA has a long line of applicants that would fill those 501 spots. Even better, after the legals graduate, they are allowed to work and pay taxes.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:53 am
“Business wants illegal aliens for cheap labor.”
You could have stopped right there.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
8:53 am
I’m also developing a smoking game. A bong hit everytime “racism” is charged…oops missed two(8:45 and 8:50). Back in a few.
retired early
November 19th, 2010
8:54 am
I think I got it now. The GOP follow the lead of the misguided public when making policy decisions. This topic provides an excellent example:
The majority of Ga voters believe that undocumented aliens are overrun in our colleges and cost the state a bunch of $$$. The GOP legislators, as in Tom Rice, act on this misinformation and make new laws. Tom’s doin’ the right think about deem aliens, so i’m gonna vote for him again. How ’bout you bubba.. we gotta teach deem people a lesson about how we think in Ga.
This is the P_E_R_F_E_C_T example of the BLIND leading the BLIND.
OK, Right wingers, lets hear your followup rationalizations as to why this is good policy. I can’t wait…
Jay
November 19th, 2010
8:54 am
Bob, illegal immigrants took TWO slots at UGA.
Two.
And under revised policy, they will be the last two.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
8:56 am
“UGA has a long line of applicants that would fill those 501 spots”
Didn’t pay attention did you? Of those 501 students, 472 are in OPEN ENROLLMENT schools…which means, in case you don’t know, that they are NOT “taking the place” of any other students.
Normal
November 19th, 2010
8:58 am
Off topic, but that’s why you love me…
This is an almost “feel good” story, but I wish that the Defense department could make one less ship and put that money into a Naval Musium repair fund. From the Olympia to Old Ironsides, to the Missouri and many others, we have the history of our fathers, grand fathers, and great great grandfathers. And for the most part they rusting away.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/11/ap-olympia-warship-to-stay-open-111810/
Paulo977
November 19th, 2010
9:00 am
USinUK
7:22am
“END OF CIVILIZATION” Now isn’t that ironical, considering that ILLEGALS brought “CIVILIZATION” to this neck of the woods??
barking frog
November 19th, 2010
9:01 am
Amusing that the same state officials that await the
Federal dollars want to tell the Feds how to conduct
their business and the folks that decry the parasites
cry the blues when the state wants to charge a toll
on Federal paid for highways. The dollars sent to
Mexico are taken to Walmart and spent just like
the dollars of Mexicans in the US. Also forget ‘illegals’
we’re talking about Mexicans, our peaceful
neighbors, at least since the last time we invaded
them, those folks that we have turned into
drug dealers with our national drug habit.
andygrdzki
November 19th, 2010
9:02 am
Mary Elizabeth at 8:36….. You missed my point, but I understand your closed mind and lack of understanding……
Have you been to France? I have been to France on many occasions for business purposes, and I never seen or heard, Press 1 for French, 2 for English? Learning a second or third language is important, which is why I learned some French as I have learned some Spanish because of my business dealings in France and Latin America…….
You are a typical left wing nut unable to see the larger picture….. just like so many right wing nuts…..
What fear…… lol…. I guess that is the best you can do…..
AmVet
November 19th, 2010
9:02 am
ty, drink up you neo-con!
(Bloody Mary’s and Mimosas are the obvious morning c0cktails…)
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:03 am
Amvet,
Cheers!
Normal
November 19th, 2010
9:04 am
Off topic #2 and I’m out. The GOP seems to be alienating women now. Whats that old adage about a woman scorned? And I hope the GOP isn’t betting on them forgetting by 2012. Any married man knows women just don’t forget…
http://www.thenation.com/article/156531/paycheck-fairness-dies-senate
Jay
November 19th, 2010
9:04 am
Something tells me Ty is going to have one helluva headache tomorrow morning.
TaxPayer
November 19th, 2010
9:04 am
I wonder if the illegal immigrants that cut up the chicken and pick the crops and serve the food and cook the food and clean the toilets, etc., get a chance to hear the talk coming from the voting majority here in Georgia and other places and if they do, I wonder how they react to it. Perhaps they just say, “Aww, pi$$ on it,” or something like that.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:05 am
Mystefied – great reading – thanks for that! I didn’t understand where the pieces fit, but that link helped
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2010
9:05 am
Bob, illegal immigrants took TWO slots at UGA.
Two.
And under revised policy, they will be the last two.
Remember when self-identifying conservatives really were about less government, and didn’t pass outlandishly unnecessary legislation designed to fix nonexistent problems?
Neither do I.
Moderate Line
November 19th, 2010
9:05 am
AmVet
November 19th, 2010
7:04 am
Good Friday morning Bookmaniancs.
I’m beginning to see a trend here.
The hopelessly misguided cons are fixated on the one half of one percent part of any problem so as to avoid dealing with the 99.5% of it. (Think earmarks and federal spending.)
+++++
If the left were not making a counter argument they could claim to be fixated on the same .5%. I am personally not. From my perspective this is an emotional issue which is why it seems to get more attention than it deserves.
Why is the left so concerned about the 500 people affected by this?
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:05 am
This is like the earmark rage against the machine (early music reference hehehe) — making a mountain out of a molehill.
I heard this story on NPR a couple weeks back, and it is simply just a poutrage. It’s a good story for the haters to pick up but it means nothing.
Just like the ban on earmarks which amounts to less than 1% of our federal budget. It sounds good when you talk about it, but in reality, it is just a mole hill.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:06 am
Firsties on 4! It’s a good day!
TnGelding
November 19th, 2010
9:06 am
Certainly we want the ones that are here to stay to have access to higher education, but undocumented individuals need to get the documents or be shipped home. It’s good (or bad?) to know it is such a small number that have the courage to enroll and risk the repercussions. They should be given some credit for that. It all depends on if you want to preserve our heritage or not, but it’s hard to be against someone just trying to feed themselves and better their lives. We need to do more to make conditions in their native lands more encouraging.
TaxPayer
November 19th, 2010
9:08 am
I heard that 25% of our high school grads lack basic reading comprehension skills. The good news though is that we’ve made improvements so we can always hope that this will translate into a more informed future generation of compassionate conservatives.
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
9:08 am
JB, as a retired bartender, my guess is Ty is gonna have a helluva hangover around 6:00 PM today. we used to call it the rush hour hangover
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:10 am
Jay,
headaches? That’s what the Bloody Mary’s are for.
Uh oh! now it’s Sexism(Normal at 9:04)? hmmmm…running out of vices. “Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines”
AmVet
November 19th, 2010
9:10 am
Jay, at 9:04, LOL! Reminds me of those lines from the movie Airplane! (I picked a bad week to…)
“From my perspective this is an emotional issue which is why it seems to get more attention than it deserves.”
Moderate Line, you rock. Same here, guy, same here.
I ma much more concerned about the countless scofflaws in Georgia who illegally hired and profited from the “illegals”.
Yet, my neo-con (cheers!) cousins, say nary a word.
They love their white collar criminals…
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:11 am
white people, welcome to the minority.
It takes a while to sink in, doesn’t it?
what the heck is going on???
November 19th, 2010
9:11 am
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)@8:41 am
well seems to me we need to ‘deport’ the State Assembly from the capitol and “give the jobs” to folks who are truly interested in GOVERNING.
———————————————————
That would serve 2 purposes changing the State ASSembly and giving the politicians jobs “escort for the deported illegals” good use of their time. LMAO
jconservative
November 19th, 2010
9:13 am
Apparently Rep. Tom Rice, R-Norcross, believes it is more efficient for an illegal to pay taxes on $25,000 in income than that same illegal with a college degree to pay taxes on $65,000. At just 5% of those two figures going to taxes, the $25,000 guy would pay taxes of $50,000 over a 40 year career and the college guy would pay taxes of $130,000 over 40 years.
Bottom line is we need every person possible to get a college degree.
Legal or illegal is beside the point; all that matters is that they pay taxes.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:13 am
Amvet,
see my 9:10.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:15 am
iRemember when self-identifying conservatives really were about less government, and didn’t pass outlandishly unnecessary legislation designed to fix nonexistent problems?
One word: microchips
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:15 am
Damn, screwed the pooch on the italics.
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
9:16 am
Bosch, I agree it is similar to the earmarks poutrage on a very abstract level, but 1% of a couple trillion dollars is not exactly pocket change. the “illegal” immigrant dust-up is an opportunity for shameless politicos and fear-mongers to make hay. “earmarks” are cronyism, patronage, and influence peddling, and I guess, by definition, they are actually “legal” (just not ethical). but yeah, it’s not about any specific “issue” or “rights” – it’s about how much political capital can be generated by ranting about the issue. it’s not about the steak, it’s about the sizzle (or should I say; “bistec”?)
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:16 am
There’s a show on the History channel called “How the Earth Was Made”. They are discussing dinosaurs and I’m glad to say they aren’t showing humans walking amongst them.
RW-(the original)
November 19th, 2010
9:17 am
Off topic note to the day shift
Get your best party gear ready, this weekend is the Full Beaver Moon.
As for the topic, I don’t have any tales of being over at CT’s chastising any imaginary enemies yesterday so I guess I don’t have much to add. It is nice to break the Palin/Fox pattern though and I really wonder where or who these numbers of illegals comes from. Is 8 to 12 million the new made up accepted number? It was 20 million not long ago and I suspect that number was just as made up, 8 to 12 is a pretty big range that most certainly casts doubt on that count.
Scout
November 19th, 2010
9:18 am
Too many people go to college. It doesn’t mean that much anymore and in many cases is nothing but an advanced high school degree. It almost takes at least a master’s degree now to equate to what college used to be.
Jay:
Do you also know that 10 states allow illegals to have “in-state” tuition? But if you are an American citizen military person just transferred there to serve your country you have to wait a year.
Our priorities are way of base.
AmVet
November 19th, 2010
9:19 am
ty, I saw. Great minds…?
And from the FWIW Department, you’re a good egg.
Unlike those who take and make things personal, it’s good to have a little fun at our own expense and to razz each other sometimes, isn’t it?
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:19 am
seeitall
“I get it now, lib. We will not enforce the law when just a few break it. What percentage of the population rapes, robs banks, murders? It’s so small we should just forget about it.”
Of course we should. The recent election in Houston has been repeated elsewhere in the country. Officials took action to apprehend lawbreakers who kill and maim others. The people did NOT like that. They thought it was government intrusion and an affront to personal liberty. So they went to the polls and forbade government officials from using technology to apprehend killers.
Oh yeah, the vote was to bar further use of cameras at intersections to catch people who run red lights.
But we gotta enforce the law when it comes to ‘them,’ eh?
Jay
“The “subject to the jurisdiction” language has always, from the very first moment the amendment was written,”
I’m still open on this. If what I heard from the Park Service when I toured Ellis Island this past spring was correct, ‘illegal immigration’ wasn’t even a concept when the 14th was written. Immigration (from the federal perspective) was pretty unregulated. Add to that, as josef noted the other day, that Native Americans born here were not considered citizens until the 20th century and I think it’d be a pretty interesting case to hear litigated.
Fred
November 19th, 2010
9:19 am
Why does everyone always assume illegals are of Hispanic descent?
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:19 am
“Bottom line is we need every person possible to get a college degree”
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. Not everyone is suited to having a college degree and of those that do, not all are even WORTH $50,000 a year.
It’s that “everyman deserves a college degree” thinking that contributes to the illegal immigration problem. You educate people beyond their intelligence (As my Father used to say) and they then think they are worth too much to take those low paying jobs.
And no, that’s not elitest thinking. I don’t have a college degree myself and I’ve done just fine. We need better career paths for people who prefer “working with their hands” besides pusing them into college.
Even ditch diggers can benefit from targeted training and better their skills.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:19 am
Morning, Bosch!
Congrats!
And the second post doesn’t count -
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:20 am
Scout – “But if you are an American citizen military person just transferred there to serve your country you have to wait a year.”
do you know the reasoning why? does it have to do with them possibly being transferred out again??
Joe the Plutocrat (the artist formerly known as paleo-neo-Carlinist)
November 19th, 2010
9:21 am
Finn McCool, the History Channel is for pointy-headed intellectuals and liberals. if you want to see some creationist/flat-earth “history” flip to Cartoon Network, and check out The Flintstone’s. dinosaurs and homo sapiens sharing the same caves. fascinating!
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:21 am
oh, and AmVet – drinking games with Bloody Marys??? eeeeep. I don’t think you want to do powershots of tomato juice.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:21 am
” I’m glad to say they aren’t showing humans walking amongst them.”
I’ll tell you what though, a couple of years ago Animal Planet had a fantasy show on based on the premise that someone invented time travel and went back to the dinosaur age. It was actually quite interesting to see people in proportion to those huge land and sea creatures. Quite an eye-opener in fact!
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:22 am
Amvet,
(re 9:19) I’ll drink to that!
Matti
November 19th, 2010
9:23 am
Normal, The GOP seems to be alienating women now.
Um, this isn’t new. They are much better to women who toe the line, look, dress, speak, and behave as per their definition of “Real Woman” in the GOP handbook. Parroting the party line is non-negotiable. The moment they deviate from the prescribed specifications, however, women are run out of there like a wh-0-re your wife finds in your son’s bedroom.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:24 am
“Why does everyone always assume illegals are of Hispanic descent?”
yeah, cause I just picked up a truckload of swedish day-laborers at home deopt just the other day.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:24 am
Bosch 9:05
I believe the earmark thing has heavy symbolism. It’s the reform advocates in Congress, supported by the incoming TP-backed candidates, taking on the entrenched politicians from both parties. And it appears they won. So the Establishment didn’t bend the incoming freshmen to the system, the incoming freshmen bent the system to them.
And, if we take the view “this is too small” we’ll never get anywhere. It’s all the small stuff that adds up. Like ‘only’ 250 calories from the daily donuts or ‘only’ 600 calories from the 32oz Big Gulp. Pretty soon all that ’small stuff’ adds up to another 20 or 30 pounds.
And to take it off? People concentrate on the ’small stuff.’
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:25 am
dang it, meant “Home Depot”…party foul!
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:26 am
“cause I just picked up a truckload of swedish day-laborers at home deopt just the other day”
Ok, so now you’ve just confessed to hiring illegal immigrants
Scout
November 19th, 2010
9:27 am
USinUK :
If you think that matters, you have truly gone native. Stay there ……… don’t “transfer” back.
Bye Bye Empire
November 19th, 2010
9:29 am
I love this conflict in a way and I’ve got my popcorn at the ready while I watch it play out.
On the one hand you have the academic technocrats, marching to the beat of the neo-liberal economic taskmasters who believe everything must work like a market, and thus the university should, too. And then on the other hand you have a populist revolt brewing – which is partly just good old fashioned xenophobia but has partly been cynically galvanized by some of the same interests who push the ‘common sense’ logic of neoliberal market fundamentalism – efficiency always! at all costs! – have used elsewhere to demagogue other issues, e.g. trying to sway opinion against deficit spending, anything smacking of Keynesian monetary policy, etc.
So now, on issues like this, we can see the two tendencies crash into each other. And it’s hilarious.
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:29 am
Simpson and Bowles of the debt reduction commission are going to be on Greta van Susteren’s show on Fox tonight. I’m sure they’ll talk about some small stuff – and a lot of big stuff.
Which libs, and cons, and TPers will reject with the argument, “but that’s different…..”
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:29 am
“So the Establishment didn’t bend the incoming freshmen to the system, the incoming freshmen bent the system to them.”
Yeah, Paul, we’ll see how their horns are tooting after the first month or so.
“And, if we take the view “this is too small” we’ll never get anywhere.”
Yeah, I understand that too — really, I do — but the small stuff in my book are the actual good things — no, not Bridges to No Where or Yarn Museums or whatever, but you can “trim the waste” all you want, and you still have a HUGE amount of spending. It’s like saying you need to lose 5 pounds when you weigh 1000 lbs.
Mary Elizabeth
November 19th, 2010
9:29 am
andygrdzki @ 9:02
You missed my point, I am afraid. I thought you might have been talking about the simple “Press 1 for English and Press 2 for Spanish thinking. But, that is just mechanics. Your wanting to do away with something like those mechanics is indicative of a greater prejudice you hold, in my opinion.
I have not been to France, but I have sent my child to France twice – once to interact with her French relatives and once to live in the home with, and attend school with, the French exchange student who later lived in our home on two separate occasions. One day I will visit, France, but that is not the point – of how many times you or I has been to France, or how many languages we know.
The point is having in one’s heart an openness to all kinds of people, not how many buttons are allowed on a banking machine. And I do not sense that openness in your heart through your empasis on the “Button 1 and Button 2″ concern.
In fact your name calling tactics of me, just reinforces to me of what I read in your writing to be a smallness of heart. And that manifests itself in how you view the Latinos in our nation, in my opinion.
Finn McCool
November 19th, 2010
9:30 am
Republicans, this is what YOU just voted for:
…when one bothers to think about what the derisive, knee-jerk hostility to good governance actually means, it doesn’t take long to realize there’s nothing populist in the outcome. To the contrary, today’s anti-regulatory zeal, expressed so forcefully by the incoming GOP leadership of the House, is going to stir up a heap of trouble for millions of American families over the coming years.
In the current climate, hostility to…good governance means, among other things, opposition to workplace safety regulations, (the codes intended to, say, prevent mining disasters or oil rig explosions) or at least their rigorous enforcement; opposition to laws making it easier for workers to organize into trade unions; opposition to any and all attempts to raise the minimum wage; opposition to enforcement of existing labor laws that stop employers from arbitrarily withholding earnings from employees or forcing them to work extra hours off the books, in restaurants and other service sector industries in particular, so as to skirt overtime rules; even opposition to equal pay for equal work done by men and women.
http://www.salon.com/news/great_recession/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/11/19/abramsky_gop_wage_theft
what the heck is going on???
November 19th, 2010
9:30 am
jconservative@9:13 am
Apparently Rep. Tom Rice, R-Norcross, believes it is more efficient for an illegal to pay taxes on $25,000 in income than that same illegal with a college degree to pay taxes on $65,000. At just 5% of those two figures going to taxes, the $25,000 guy would pay taxes of $50,000 over a 40 year career and the college guy would pay taxes of $130,000 over 40 years.
Bottom line is we need every person possible to get a college degree.
Legal or illegal is beside the point; all that matters is that they pay taxes.
—————————————————————-
And where will they find those higher paying jobs? They will still be illegals and everIFFy will flag them so.
AND since we are talking about middleclass wages to be taxed where are those jobs??
AT least for the most part they will be bi-lingual and will be given preference at McD’s
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:30 am
“And to take it off? People concentrate on the ’small stuff.’ ”
I agree, but would expand that to say: don’t fool yourself into thinking that ONLY the small stuff is going to solve the whole problem though. But starting small is a good way to begin to build the habits needed to tackle the big stuff that will REALLY make a difference.
ty webb
November 19th, 2010
9:32 am
Doggone,
“lighten up, francis”
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:33 am
Bosch 9:29
I see that point. I’ll offer, though, it’s kinda like starting an exercise or walking program. Person thinks “to be effective, I gotta do it for 20 minutes. I can’t do it for 20 minutes. I’ll collapse.”
So the person begins with 5 minutes. Then rests for a couple. Then 5 minutes more. Next day it’s 7 minutes, day after 10, then 15 then 20.
It’s like the spending cuts. Yeah, we need huge program reductions and eliminations. But these folks in Congress gotta work up to it.
USinUK
November 19th, 2010
9:34 am
Scout – 9:27 – dude. I was asking an honest question – do you know WHY they don’t offer in-state tuition until a service-man or -woman has lived there a year?
and, yes, things like that DO matter. if you don’t know why, just say so. (personally, I think they should be considered like teenagers who are raised in DC are and offered in-state in every state of the union, but that’s not the point)
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:35 am
“lighten up, francis”
Aren’t you glad I’m not James O’Keefe?
The Leg Lamp is a "major award".....
November 19th, 2010
9:36 am
Paul
November 19th, 2010
9:33 am
I agree. And since the left has been saying what Uncle Sam gives to NPR is “small”, then let’s start with that small budget cut.
barking frog
November 19th, 2010
9:37 am
Earmark projects have not gone away, they will find a
way into the budget. More smoke and mirrors.
Doggone/GA
November 19th, 2010
9:37 am
“since the left has been saying what Uncle Sam gives to NPR is “small”, then let’s start with that small budget cut.”
Why do you hate Car Talk?
Mary Elizabeth
November 19th, 2010
9:38 am
Andygrdzki – “What fear,” you ask? The fear of seeing your nation changing in its demographics – of the new world that is to come, even to America.
Jack
November 19th, 2010
9:38 am
Bookman needs to sponsor an illegal. It’ll make him feel better.
Bosch
November 19th, 2010
9:40 am
Paul,
@ 9:33
I want to believe! I want to believe!