In Gwinnett, grand jury exposes ugly truth
In Gwinnett County, developers and county commissioners have a tradition of entanglement that goes back decades.
That’s true to a degree in almost every county, of course. Developers need rezonings and other favors; commissioners need campaign funds and votes. But as documented in a new grand jury report, the symbiotic, often corrupt relationship between developers and politicians is particularly strong in Gwinnett County.
The biggest news out of the grand jury was its decision to indict Commissioner Kevin Kenerly on charges involving $1 million in alleged bribes. While its public report is largely silent about the evidence that led to Kenerly’s indictment, the report nonetheless documents case after case of “decisions involving millions of dollars made with little or no information or for the most venal reasons.”
Take, for example, the purchase of 8.3 acres from a financially troubled but well-connected developer. Gwinnett paid $1.2 million for the property, almost four times its price four years earlier, even though commissioners were told the parcel was useless as parkland without a $1 million footbridge to make it accessible.
At one point in the negotiations, then-Senior Superior Court Judge James Oxendine even summoned a county staff member to his judicial chambers and — as a favor to the property owner, a friend’s son — strong-armed the county into raising the price it paid.
According to the grand jury, in fact, the only explanation for the property purchase was “to bail out the son of an old friend of several members of the Board of Commissioners.”
While investigating another transaction, this one involving developer Marvin Hewatt, the grand jury discovered that Hewatt had given Commission Chairman Charles Bannister free use of a campaign billboard and a van — neither was reported as a contribution.
Bannister was instrumental in arranging the purchase of land from Hewatt’s firm for twice the amount set by county appraisers. He also denied meeting with Hewatt about the transaction, a claim directly contradicted by witnesses.
Rather than be indicted for perjury, Bannister resigned.
Bannister told the grand jury that he had pushed the sale in part as payback to a fellow commissioner who opposed it. As the grand jury concluded, the deal was used “to benefit a long-time friend and political supporter of Charles Bannister. Just as disturbingly, over one million dollars of taxpayer money was used to make a political point.”
The nonchalance with which Bannister, Kenerly and others used taxpayer money to reward friends and punish enemies is pretty stunning, and suggests a long-standing cultural mindset on the Gwinnett commission. The good work of the grand jury, assisted by District Attorney Danny Porter, may help alter that culture, but only if voters do their part.
For example, state law allows county commissions to use executive sessions to discuss property transactions. The theory is that public knowledge of potential land deals could drive up the cost to taxpayers.
In Gwinnett, however, secrecy was used for the opposite purpose, to hide artificially inflated prices. As a result, the grand jury recommends that all executive sessions be taped, which makes sense. The mere fact that a meeting is being recorded would discourage abuse of executive sessions for illegal or unethical purposes.
In fact, the suggestion makes so much sense that it ought to be applied to all local governments. Until such a state law can be passed, however, Gwinnett voters ought to insist that commissioners implement that safeguard on their own.
Ordinarily, two other safeguards also discourage corruption in land-use and land-acquisition decisions. The first is a reliance on professional staff to produce decisions grounded in fact and law; the second is the necessity of getting a majority of commissioners, not just one, to back a decision.
In Gwinnett County, both safeguards were circumvented. Staff was given little input into property deals, the grand jury found, leaving decisions to be made on a political basis.
Through a practice known as “district courtesy,” commissioners also gave each other complete leeway on decisions affecting their district, making each commissioner a king or queen of their piece of the county, without real oversight.
Apparently, that made it easy to forget that they are public servants, rather than royalty.
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273 comments Add your comment
md
October 29th, 2010
9:52 am
“Obamacare was not done in secrecy. It was out there before the election. Obama said lets do it…Republicans said not a chance.. things got tweeked..and it was voted in…..”
Yep, that is exactly how it happened……as long as one had on those special glasses.
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
9:52 am
md,
“If what they are building is in the long term use plan”
But if that long term plan involves their development sitting idle for years and the tax burden falling back onto the other tax payers because they didn’t execute their plans well, and file for bankruptcy leaving the county stuck with the bill, which is what I was originally talking about anyway, then that is not right.
Now, if you are talking about things like home owners associations who have busy body little wenches who think they can tell a home owner their grass is a quarter inch too high or they don’t like the color of paint they chose, then screw them.
Otherwise, I’m not really sure what your point is.
jm
October 29th, 2010
9:53 am
USinUK – Talk about underwriting mistakes. Of course, they weren’t the only ones taken down by asbestos. Still….
Come to any conclusions? Or are we at a stalemate?
Jefferson
October 29th, 2010
9:53 am
The truth is Buford has a lot of players that don’t live in Buford, and they are real good.
All I'm Saying Is...
October 29th, 2010
9:53 am
In addition to being corrupt and illegal, CORPORATE WELFARE, NEPOTISM, and AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is what this was.
GOP is fine with corporate welfare, nepotism, and affirmative action (giving a Caucasian fella having a hard time a break) in the name of “progress” and “growth” even if it takes a felony to achieve.
HYPOCRISY RUN AMOK.
Doggone/GA
October 29th, 2010
9:54 am
“Go shine your jackboots, boys”
good one…I was too disgusted to reply
USinUK
October 29th, 2010
9:54 am
jm – I think we’re in a stalemate – but we can agree to disagree – we both have elements of right, but we just place different weightings on them
professional skeptic
October 29th, 2010
9:54 am
Apparently, income redistribution is fine — as long as the income is taken from the masses and used to line the pockets of politicians and their donors and cronies.
People say this Gwinnett business is shameful, but then they turn right around and vote for Nathan Deal. Get ready for more of the same, Georgia, from the Governor’s office on down.
md
October 29th, 2010
9:54 am
“If you think anyone should be able to do anything they want with their own property, that is EXACTLY what we are discussing. It is zoning that STOPS that garbage unit from being built next door to you.”
Sure, if one makes assumptions that zoning wasn’t a given…….which it usually is without a REZONING.
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
9:55 am
Greg,
USinUK
October 29th, 2010
9:55 am
jm – oh, and as for lloyds, they’ve been around long enough, I think they’re allowed
williebkind
October 29th, 2010
9:55 am
Jay, I liked your article. It exposes greed of public officials and renders a viable resolution for it. Also, I would like to see huge punishments for those who make the bribes. I am happy it was a grand jury that exposed it instead of a judge making law.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 29th, 2010
9:56 am
Developers need rezonings and other favors; commissioners need campaign funds and votes.
And that’s why we’re in the mess we’re in. I guess this has always gone on but this kind of behavior accelerated in the late 60’s-early 70’s and it’s been going strong ever since. It’s the mindset of pretty much every local government in North Georgia. This lot are just the ones who got caught. So it’ll probably always be with us but when you manage to catch some, as in this case, nail their asses to the wall.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
9:57 am
The system is broken. Both parties are loaded with Hacks who do for their own and are in on the American Moneygrab called Politics.
The best way to solve the problem…term limits. Politics Corrupt!
jm
October 29th, 2010
9:57 am
skeptic – one can only hope Deal is quickly indicted, followed by Cagle. I have no idea who is in line after that…
@@
October 29th, 2010
9:57 am
If one is a staunch Libertarian AND developer (my brother), there should be no restrictions on private property owners, but when a church submitted an application to build on a corner lot near his house, he became a homeowner and protested the building of said church.
Yet, he attends church regularly.
Life is funny sometimes.
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
9:58 am
“People say this Gwinnett business is shameful, but then they turn right around and vote for Nathan Deal. Get ready for more of the same, Georgia, from the Governor’s office on down.”
That professional skeptic, he’s alright, he is.
TESTIFY!!!
jm
October 29th, 2010
9:58 am
Here’s my solution to the corruption problem: get rid of zoning laws. Houston works better than fine without them.
Shawny
October 29th, 2010
9:58 am
“OH NOes. Not the GOPers. They don’t do nobody wrong! ”
Sure they do. Bookman and Tucker point that out every single day.
md
October 29th, 2010
9:58 am
“If what they are building is in the long term use plan”
I am referring to the use plan on file with every county that shows the current zoning. Available to anyone that wants to take the time to go look at it BEFORE buying into a “community”.
Ticks me off when folks buy without taking the time to research the area, then complain about something that was on the books prior to said folks even being there. And for those already there, they are the ones that voted it in.
MikeB
October 29th, 2010
9:59 am
Meanwhile Gwinnett says my house is worth $118k while my appraisal last week says its worth only $58k………. Two appraisals earlier this year said it was worth $81k, and then down to $70k.
If I take all of this at face value, I like others in my county are being over taxed by almost double in a worst case scenario…….. Not to mention that WITHIN a year my house has supposedly lost $23k in appraised value. County bureaucrats better start thinking about all the people like me, vs. the people in the category of those they have bought land from……….
There are alot more folks like me out there, and we vote. I don’t care what party you are from. Neither can claim innocence here. The days of the self serving politicians need to cease.
I intend on staying in my home, and paying my mortgage regardless of the appraisals, but I would like to see Govt. come to me for a change vs. me having to chase them for some kind of “consideration”. Show citizens that you care about regular, law abiding, tax paying, folks Gwinnett BOC. For a change………..
jm
October 29th, 2010
10:00 am
@@ – I know the “H” word most people would rightly use. I’d bet his response would be: I’m just playing the game according to the rules written by the powers that be.
marc from dudley hs
October 29th, 2010
10:00 am
Gwinnett….Success Lives here!….if you know the right people..
professional skeptic
October 29th, 2010
10:01 am
OH! I just thought of another question for Jim Galloway for the next Goobernatorial debate:
For Nathan Deal:
Mr. Deal, when you read about the Gwinnett verdict did you start sweating and/or shaking in your boots?
@@
October 29th, 2010
10:01 am
Ticks me off when folks buy without taking the time to research the area, then complain about something that was on the books prior to said folks even being there. And for those already there, they are the ones that voted it in.
AMEN to that!
Taking personal responsibility.
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
10:02 am
md,
And if zoning never changed you might have a point. Otherwise, I really don’t see it.
I’ve told you my position, and if you disagree with it, then so be it.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:03 am
Bosch…on Deal…I am with you!
To me in this election its the lesser of two evils. With Deal:
1. Not transparent on taxes
2. Hid his bad dealings with his daughters business
3. Shady dealings with the state and his salvage company
And this guy is supposed to do right by the people of GA?
He is a shady guy…but because he is a Republican in this Republican state he has a huge chance of winning.
And then people get mad when years later, they’ve found the crimes.
You get what you pay for…its soo true!
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 29th, 2010
10:04 am
@@-9:57
It’s all about whose ox is getting gored. That’s how everything in life works. (IW&SH)
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
10:05 am
“He is a shady guy…but because he is a Republican in this Republican state he has a huge chance of winning.”
Greg, he will win. The GOPers here in this state don’t care about any of that — they vote because he says he’s a Republican. They claim to hate Washington, but they vote for a guy who got kicked out of Washington because he was too corrupt. Go figure.
md
October 29th, 2010
10:05 am
“Taking personal responsibility.”
What’s that????
Paulo977
October 29th, 2010
10:07 am
USinUK ..
“Our Scumbag” Just as Deal is “Our Crook”!!!!
md
October 29th, 2010
10:09 am
“And if zoning never changed you might have a point. Otherwise, I really don’t see it. ”
And when it does change Bosch, most folks don’t even bother going to the rezoning meetings, which is their chance to voice their concerns. I’ve sat through many where there might have been 5 or 6 folks voicing their concerns. Yet when it gets changed, the folks come out of the woodwork bitching and moaning.
jm
October 29th, 2010
10:10 am
pardon my acro-language: WTF
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/parents-tell-aps-board-699197.html
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:12 am
Bosch…it makes no sense. I try to keep an open mind. You have to get past all of the he said she said nonsense and get to the facts.
Deal smells like a crook. Therefore…he is a crook.
For years, people said Kenerly is a crook. Today…its more apparent he is crook.
Why do people complain about government when they keep electing crooks.
For god sakes…Queen Palin was found to have violated ethics laws in Alaska…but people are ready to elect her President in 2012.
America has gone mad!
USinUK
October 29th, 2010
10:15 am
a halloween giggle: http://www.rhymeswithorange.com/2010/10/october-29-2010/
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
10:16 am
md,
Well, aren’t you a good civic citizen! Why can’t we all be like you? Sometimes that works (voice your concern) most of the time, it doesn’t. If it’s money involved and your not the one with it, voicing your concern is just wasted breath.
I too have voiced my concern with local politicians about this kind of thing, and they do nothing — they will allow development whenever to whoever wants it, and to me, it’s very detrimental to the community when things are built simply because someone can, with no foresight into if they should. I seriously don’t think most people see the correlation to that and a bad economic situation– but then again, I don’t vote for these guys (and a couple gals).
StJ
October 29th, 2010
10:16 am
The judge strong-armed the county into paying more than fair market value for the property? Has anything been done to him?
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:16 am
Md…on zoning…
You are right. Few people voice concerns in meetings.
But how about this…
We elect people to do what is right for the people.
Scenario:
A landowner wants to open a gas station on his property right in the middle of a quiet residential neighborhood.
Does it take rocket science to know that this is a bad idea? Why should it even be open for discussion? Logic says…this would be voted down. However, many times the gas station will go up.
Makes no sense…..
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
10:18 am
“Why do people complain about government when they keep electing crooks.”
Million dollar question isn’t it Greg?
It’s because there is such a distrust for government now and there are so many people who listen to the five second sound bytes for news instead of really thinking about the issue and reading past the headline. Someone is found to be a crook on “your team” — why that’s impossible! It’s just political attack! And people fall for it.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:18 am
“However, many times the gas station will go up…”
Beacuse Republicans are all about business first….people second.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:22 am
Bosch…
“many people who listen to the five second sound bytes for news instead of really thinking about the issue and reading past the headline. Someone is found to be a crook on “your team” — why that’s impossible! It’s just political attack! And people fall for it.”
Yes sir….I see and hear it everyday…makes my skin crawl. People are zombies walking…they beleive everything they hear without searching for truth.
Latest Soundbyte: “Deal says people should jump off of a bridge because Roy Barnes is waiting to catch them with one of his cows.”
Now lets see what happens at Spaghetti Junction today!
md
October 29th, 2010
10:22 am
“Sometimes that works (voice your concern) most of the time, it doesn’t.”
It is no different than voting – 5 or 6 show up in opposition, then there is an assumption that the rest are in favor.
70/80% show up in opposition, they usually get the message – if not, they get voted out.
Simple process if folks take the time to make it work.
But, it is usually easier to let it happen and complain later.
Bosch
October 29th, 2010
10:26 am
md,
”
But, it is usually easier to let it happen and complain later.”
Just like politics, huh?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greg,
“Now lets see what happens at Spaghetti Junction today!”
Make sure you have an umbrella in your car.
md
October 29th, 2010
10:27 am
“Does it take rocket science to know that this is a bad idea? Why should it even be open for discussion? Logic says…this would be voted down. However, many times the gas station will go up.”
You would be surprised who actually likes these stores in their neighborhoods, as it is sometimes folks that don’t even have a car. These stores are “convenience” stores, and become quite convenient for folks that don’t drive or can’t/don’t want to go too far.
Kind of like owning pets – everybody has a different reason.
White man
October 29th, 2010
10:28 am
Kenerly is a good man who made bad decisions.
jm
October 29th, 2010
10:31 am
White man is an apologist…. for the wrong group in my opinion. Not that being an apologist is ever a good thing.
White man
October 29th, 2010
10:33 am
Jm….Kevin is a person contact of mine. I know him and the situation in depth. The truth will come out.
120
October 29th, 2010
10:33 am
Excellent article Jay. Gwinnett County taxpayers have slept for years while the BOC robbed us blind and then called for tax increases to cover their theft. And we’re still not in the clear: Shirley Lasseter, the former mayor who tried to make Duluth a sanctuary city for illegals, is currently running the show.
Mike
October 29th, 2010
10:37 am
To those making fun of Republicans over this, I’d note that it’s Republicans who generally argue that government is as much or more a corrupting influence as it is a beneficial influence, and for that reason it is essential to limit the power of that government to limit the damage it can do. This is a prime example of that concept. I have no illusions that Republicans are any better than Democrats in resisting the lure of power and influence that accompanies public office, but since SOMEONE has to make decisions, all we can do is attempt to elect people who commit to limiting the influence and power of government. It is up to the electorate to pressure our representives relentlessly until a full-scale revamp of the county’s ethics, purchasing and open meetings rules is complete.
All that being said, what the Gwinnett County Commission has done here is beyond any excuse or explanation. Each individual on that board bears a share of the blame for what has happened, and I only wish we could replace all of them on Tuesday.
Also, it’s very, very uncomfortable agreeing with Jay Bookman.
White man
October 29th, 2010
10:37 am
I would love to see a blog on here to discuss the mexican border and the beheading that happened a few weeks ago.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:38 am
WM wrote:
“Kevin is a person contact of mine. I know him and the situation in depth. The truth will come out.”
Yep…that even his closest personal friends didn’t know the real Kevin.
You are going to be just as FlimFlammed as the rest of us….. He most likely fed you a line just like everyone else. That’s how deceitful people are….
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 29th, 2010
10:40 am
“However, many times the gas station will go up…”
Beacuse Republicans are all about business first….people second.
It was the same way when Georgia was an all Democratic state. Local zoning has never had anything to do with parties, it’s all about greasing the wheels.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:41 am
WM wrote – “I would love to see a blog on here to discuss the mexican border and the beheading that happened a few weeks ago.”
I know…however…today we are discussing your pal and his dirty deeds. No need to change the subject and hit the reset button today.
Thanks….
ROBOCOP
October 29th, 2010
10:42 am
The good news in Gwinnett is that the demographics have changed enough in the past 5 to 10 years where the GOP has less of strangle hold on most local and county elective offices as they’ve had. In a few more years, there will hopefully be more equality in the sharing of these offices.
For those of us who have lived in Gwinnett long enough (my family and I have been there 27 years), we have seen much change…not all of it very good. We’ve seen growth with little planning and almost no communication between county offices that have, for example, an interest or impact on traffic. Bannister’s reign as Commission Chairman was punctuated with huge mistakes in reading the desires of citizens/taxpayers. Decisions on garbage management were made with little or no public input, until taxpayers raised hell. He kept that style up, including decisions to raise property taxes with little prior discussions with taxpayers. He won’t be missed and neither will Kennerly.
I will speak personally on behalf of Danny Porter, the Republican DA, who has done a fantastic job having to respond to growth of criminal activity in the county. Given hiow the growth of crime far outstripped Porter’s resources, he’s shown what a great leader he is. I hope he will remain our DA for many years to come. I’m proud that he’s my DA.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:47 am
Robocop….I agree Porter is a no nonsense guy. I like him..
White man
October 29th, 2010
10:48 am
Greg, I understand your anger….however I am sure you dont know all of the facts and they will come out. Well for the most part. Do you know him, anything more than what you have read in the paper?
White man
October 29th, 2010
10:49 am
Danny Porter does a stand up job and has for years in Gwinnett.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
10:53 am
WM…
No I do not know him. However, I do not need to know him personally to know that he is a shady character.
For Instance, while its ok to have developers and builders as friends wouldn’t you say that it does not look good going on vacation with the same people who come to you for zoning and who you have done land deals with?
It looks bad because it is bad. What it tells the public is that he is proud to throw that up in the public’s face, and now it seems he was also sticking his hands in our pockets.
Even if I (as well as all of the other citizens are wrong..which we could be) he has to admit that he is at least wrong with putting himself in a position in which the public questions his motives….Right?
NJ
October 29th, 2010
11:08 am
Happens everywhere.
Actually with regard to health care, and health insurance, there is really no need for premium increases, because like all new technologies, medical technologies come down in cost rapidly as they become more common. On average the cost of medical technologies and treatments drop 8 percent per year. And they do not become common until they become older because health insurance companies simply do not pay for them when they are costly, except in the cadillac health care plans of the very wealthy, which are subsidized by taxpayer dollars. Which is why placing a cap on the amount of health benefits that an employee can be given by a company is a very good idea. Allow the standard policy that is given to a company employee to be deducted as a legitimate business expense, but tax anything above that as wage income, and you will see the rather pernicious distorting effects of tax preferences start to minimize.
One of the least discussed scandals of the recent housing market bubble and the wealth that was sucked out of the housing market in the form of mortgage fees on home owners and investment fees on mortgage based securities were the solid platinum health care plans that were being given in those industries. Executives were being given top of the line health care plans, at “group rates” that included things like daily massage therapy for their job related stress, greens fees for golf courses (exsercise is healthy). The average group rate for these plans was 50,000 dollars. Executives of course got special consideration and did not have to pay a cent for their policies while the employees did. Then add on the families who also got 50k level health insurance on the company dime and the business deduction subsidies, and you are talking the government providing a tax subsidy for 200,000 dollars worth of health insurance. This is one of the reasons that executives often choose a benefit that is way above average compared to what the average worker in the company is given rather than cash.
Economists have calculated the cost in revenues to the government for each dollar of health insurance that a company can deduct. For the average American in the 20 percent tax bracket, in a state with a 5 percent state income tax, the cost to the government is 37 cents for each dollar of health insurance given to an employee. As income goes higher and the more above average the health care plan, the greater the loss of government revenue.
A simple solution is to not set a fixed dollar amount that would be allowed as a reasonable business deduction, but rather use the average dollar amount for each company based on which offering the average employee takes and then only allow THAT as a reasonable deduction and also tax anything in excess of this as “wage income” for the employee.
Thats the scam. Since Reagan the American tax code is now designed to benefit the wealthy, where the government provides tax subsidies for the luxuries of executives, not merely the business costs.. It’s a sort of “me too” system, where if the average worker wants to shell out of pocket the extra 40,000 dollars in premiums for that luxury health plan, they can get it TOO (the companies are usually smart enough to not advertise the existence of these executive plans, knowing that this would adversely effect the average worker in the company’s morale a good deal), but these are usually too expensive for that and the executive gets special treatment by having the company pick up the entire tab for it. And the American taxpayer gets to subsidize these luxuries.
White man
October 29th, 2010
11:16 am
Greg are you still here?
Greg
October 29th, 2010
11:27 am
Yes…WM…I am still floating around…
NJ
October 29th, 2010
11:29 am
If politicians are corrupt, you have to also make the assumption that corporate executives are corrupt. There are many evidences of this. There is of course the unspoken rule in the corporate world where you rarely fire an executive for an amazingly costly screw up or extremely unethical behavior. You give them six months or a year to fine a NEW executive position and you hide the fact that they did something very wrong from the public, especially if it is a company with shareholders in the general public.
Conservatives will never get the fact that it is not business or the law that is the corrupting influence but “business”. Making money will ALWAYS lead to the desire to cut corners, bend the law, and eventually break it as the temptations become more and more a regular presence.
I worked in a law firm once. The young attorneys were all very idealistic kids. A lot of them washed out and decided to change profession because they felt they were constantly being asked to do things they considered “unethical” in the interests of clients. And for every “criminal” legal case or “Tort” there are 100 actions taken for “businesses” by law firms. That is the bread and butter. Firms kept on retainer for a “corporation” or small business or even a single person owning their own small business. My dad was a simple guy who built homes for people. When he traveled to other areas of the country to build for old customers from our home town, they bought his airline ticket and he showed up with a suitcase and his toolbox. My dad HAD to have a lawyer just to go over the contracts as well as the plans for the houses he was building to make sure they met code. My dad was constantly being cheated by the “businessmen” he did business with. He was simply an honest old worker who trusted to a handshake.
It’s not a chicken or egg situation. It is ALWAYS the businesses that inject the corrupting influence INTO any government at any level. Always looking for the edge. Always looking for a way of “externalizing” costs. Which is why so often at the local level, politicians are also local business men and business leaders rather than professional politicians.
NJ
October 29th, 2010
11:34 am
Wrong words. Its not politics or the law that is corrupt but the business world using it’s money and influence to try to effect government in their interests at the expense of every other group in society. The founders believed that they found a way of preventing this, and one of their methods was to tax, very highly any wealth that was not earned by ones own labor directly. To put it simply the founders DID tax the hell out of “corporate wealth” because they saw it as a method of a small group combining their wealth to attempt to take control of government in their own interests.
Unfortunately the legislation that gave corporations the same rights as people then allowed them to create “special” rights for themselves. And if you look at corporate law, you will see that corporations have now given themselves “special privilege” when initially all they were supposed to get was “equal rights” with average citizens.
Greg
October 29th, 2010
11:36 am
WM….
It seems its gotten very quiet. My last post is hard to answer for you (Maybe you are Kevin)….because its true.
But its ok. Like I said…the public knows better. We don’t have to wait until Kevin (wink wink) goes to court.
He put himself where he is by his own actions…period!
NJ
October 29th, 2010
12:10 pm
Another ugly truth. The reason Republicans hate social programs is that is money taken away from the corrupting possibilities of business.
A good example is Social Security. No matter how conservatives try to attack the program it has managed to do one thing. Take in a lot more money than it has paid out over 75 years. Over that period Social Security has collected 14 trillion dollars in payroll taxes and pay out about 10 trillion.
Compared to “private pensions” that is a profitable and long term going concern. Since Republicans decided to attack the “defined pension” plan in favor of “401k” and similar plans, more than 160,000 private pension plans have gone belly up. There is a private pension tsunami coming.. Most plans are massively underfunded and not actually prepared to even give back the money in a 401k if too many people come trying to take the money out at one time.
While Social Security still takes in more money than it pays out and will continue to do so until 2037 (when to be frank, most of the baby boomers will be pushing up daisies…in order to get their dire numbers Republicans make calculations based on every baby boomer being ALIVE in 2037). What they are trying to do is avoid paying back what has been borrowed FROM Social Security which is more than sufficient to keep the program solvent indefinitely. As long as the government makes good on the promise to pay back the excess it has borrowed from Social Security.
The REAL danger and distraction is in the private pension fund arena. Since 1974, 160,000 private pension funds have gone belly up due to underfunding on the employer side. Even 401k programs, the money for EVERY investor is actually NOT THERE. The funds only have to keep a small percentage of money on hand to pay off the investors. But the total amount of underfunding in these new style plans has now reached 450 billion dollars. Group pensions in workplaces are most in danger of severe failure.
The new concept of “Cash Balance” plans is another method by which corporations have simply lowered the value of the original pension plans that their employers took as a term of employment.
A prime example is the “servicing fees” that these plans charge. Between two and four percent. If an individual invests 100,000 dollars over 30 years at an average annual investment return of 8 percent, compounded, for every percentage point that the service fees go down provide an additional 214,000 dollars for the retiree upon retirement at the end of that 30 years. Or to put it simply, over 30 years the fees that go to the fund managers currently range between 428 and 856,000 over 30 years. Magic of compound interest. 100 dollars stuck in any stock that started out as a blue chip and was still a blue chip 30 years later is going to be worth around 15,000 dollars. (ATT is a good example) If you bought 100 dollar at ten a share in 1970 you’d be sitting on about 17,000 dollars return today.
NJ
October 29th, 2010
12:23 pm
Yes the idea that Republicans had NO SAY in Obamacare is another Republican falsehood, just as their simplistic statement that private insurance will never be able to compete with a government insurance plan because the government can ALWAYS raise taxes to subsidize the government insurance. Republicans put up alternative bills, and amendments, they got to the floor, they got voted on. But because they could not win or did not get their own way. Republicans decided to NOT play.
Most Republicans know that the public knows JACK about how the government works, so they will always distract the public from the fact that to raise those taxes, the government needs a lot more than a simple majority vote. That is, the government has to deal with Republicans who will always vote AGAINST raising that tax to fund the government health insurance plan, so government has to deal with fiscal forces that private business does not have to face. Businesses CAN just raise their prices and premiums at will to balance off any lost customers and sales they have had. Depending on how critical or luxurious that item or service is, the prices can be increased fairly steeply. People WILL pay a lot more for food to avoid starvation, but they might not purchase that Rolls Royce if the price doubles. Government and private business can compete without one having a special advantage over the other because both have different inhibiting factors that cancel any advantage out.
Nice Guy
October 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
Enter your comments here
Debra
October 30th, 2010
7:12 am
Re: Kenerly, moral of the story — never elect a developer to the board of commissioners. Good work Danny Porter.
Concerned Citizen
November 1st, 2010
2:14 am
NJ,
You make some interesting points. However, your anti-business bias is so obvious that it makes it difficult to trust anything you say. So, do you consider yourself a Socialist or a Communist?
Concerned Citizen
November 1st, 2010
2:21 am
NJ,
The reason Republicans (and a few Democrats) decided not “to play” with Obamacare, was because they disagreed fundamentally with its approach. If the Democrats were interested in solving the various problems with healthcare, instead of just advancing the Democrat’s agenda, they would have been open to creative ideas (many presented by Republicans) that would have met the same objective. Instead they played politics, ignoreed the obvious will of the people, and rammed it down our throats. Now, they (particularly President Obama) are going to learn what happens when you have no buy-in from the other party on something so fundamental to our country. They are now going to have to try to defend a pitiful bill/law from a motivated opposition that is about to regain some measure of power and will take it down the first chance they get.
Concerned Citizen
November 1st, 2010
2:22 am
ignored (correction)
Concerned Citizen
November 1st, 2010
2:24 am
On the topic at hand, good work Mr. Bookman. We will vote/throw the bums out who were involved in this wrong-doing, regardless of party.
Concerned Citizen
November 1st, 2010
2:30 am
Doggone/GA,
I like dogs too. But, in your case, your self-selection in avoiding Gwinnett was probably the best thing for all concerned.