$850 million later, high-tech border fence a failure

The Obama administration has decided to abandon construction of a high-tech “virtual fence” along the Mexico-U.S. border, proclaiming it an expensive failure.

Just as most people expected it to be.

When the so-called Secure Border Initiative was announced back in 2006, President Bush called it “the most technologically advanced border security initiative in American history.”

“The American people are rightfully insistent on the fact that we solve this 30-year-old problem,” Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said. “And this is about a solution which we believe is going to do the job.”

Even at the time, though, most of those paying attention understood the project to be a purely political gesture by the Bush administration, which was eager to tamp down criticism of its immigration policy.

”We’ve been presented with expensive proposals for elaborate border technology that eventually have proven to be ineffective and wasteful,” U.S. Rep. Harold Rogers, R-Kentucky, warned in one 2006 congressional hearing. ”How is the SBI not just another three-letter acronym for failure?”

Eight hundred and fifty million dollars later, Rogers and others have been proved right. Last week, the Governmental Accountability Office released a scathing report on the 53-mile fence project and the performance of its lead contractor. Boeing. The report was the latest in a series of GAO reports dating back to 2007 that pointed out what investigators call “its well-chronicled history of not delivering promised capabilities and benefits on time and within budget.”

As ABC News reports:

“Although some of the individual components perform acceptably, SBInet has failed to deliver on the promise of an integrated system that detects and simultaneously identifies intruders, and then quickly and accurately directs resources to intercept them,” said T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council.

“This is due to unrealistic expectations about the capabilities of current technology, as well as a flawed underlying concept. In their quest to automate border security, the system’s proponents appear to have lost sight of the fact that surveillance technology is incapable of apprehending anything; well-trained and highly-skilled law enforcement officers are necessary to accomplish that task.”

454 comments Add your comment

booger

October 25th, 2010
12:22 pm

$850 million is a big number, but compared to the $850 billion failed stimulus, it’s hardly worth mentioning.

itpdude

October 25th, 2010
12:27 pm

One wonders with W’s commitments to cheap labor for big Ag and big Biz if his administration sought a fence that would do nothing but fail.

stands for decibels

October 25th, 2010
12:28 pm

Booger, you TPers do realize ours is a 14.5 trillion dollar economy, right?

(I’m thinking… not.)

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:29 pm

I like obamas plan better, put up warning signs.

Red

October 25th, 2010
12:29 pm

Shouldn’t we just annex Mexico and start over by trying to secure the border with Honduras and Belize? Many positives on that front- FBI would gleefully clean up the narcos and stuff.

TINSTAAFL

October 25th, 2010
12:29 pm

For the same price, how long of a real fence could we have built?

People have been building walls and fences for thousands of years for a reason. It works.

godless heathen

October 25th, 2010
12:29 pm

Yet Jay insists we give more money to the government for more such wasting.

stands for decibels

October 25th, 2010
12:31 pm

stands for decibels

October 25th, 2010
12:32 pm

Aquagirl

October 25th, 2010
12:32 pm

“People have been building walls and fences for thousands of years for a reason. It works.”

Flunk history much?

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:33 pm

If you really want to see what happens on the Borders I suggest you watch Natgeo’s “Border Wars”
It is a good show.

We need to find something that works because we can’t hire enough Agents to secure our Borders.

400,000 illegals caught last year, 192,000 of them had criminal records and 52,000 were not from Mexico.

This is the reason that I am against letting illegals come here and staying here.

stands for decibels

October 25th, 2010
12:34 pm

It works.

snort.

Anyway, I’m sure this is going to be a real farm-fresh, enlightening comments thread on a topic about which people are ever so level-headed, but I gotta go pick lettuce for fitty bucks an hour.

Later.

Jimmy62

October 25th, 2010
12:34 pm

It’s too bad you are so excited about our government’s inability to enforce it’s own laws.

TINSTAAFL

October 25th, 2010
12:34 pm

Aquagirl

Your intellect astounds me daily.

Take a drive through your neighborhood sometime. Notice the large, rectangular shapes outlining the property of many people’s yards. Those, my mentally-challenged friend, are called ‘fences.’ People build them to keep people out, and pets and kids in. For more information, consult your local library.

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:36 pm

AquaGirl, you are correct, most illegals won’t go into other countries, fences or not, they don’t want to get shot or thrown in Jail.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:37 pm

“People have been building walls and fences for thousands of years for a reason. It works”

Actually, no it doesn’t. For reference, check the history of the Great Wall of China…and also, never discount the “25 foot wall, 26 foot ladder” solution.

scrappy

October 25th, 2010
12:37 pm

“People have been building walls and fences for thousands of years for a reason. It works.”

hum… No, not really. Pretty sure every famous border wall that has ever been built, has also failed to keep people secure. Where there is a will, they will find a way to come over, around, or under said wall.

RB from Gwinnett

October 25th, 2010
12:37 pm

Doggie, from below, you and I both know what the dictionary definition of socialism is, but only one of us is paying attention to how a nation gets there. None of the nations mired in it’s failed policies woke up one morning and said, “hey, today lets start being a socialist country”. They got there through the exactl same “compromise” this nations Democrats want every time there is an issue to debate. In reality, it’s just another step toward the definition you’ll find in the dictionary.

It would be foolish to wait until we fit the dictionary definition to start calling you what you are at the core, socialists. By that time it’ll be a little too late.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:38 pm

“This is the reason that I am against letting illegals come here and staying here”

OK, no problem…how much more in taxes are you willing to pay to have them all found and deported?

TINSTAAFL

October 25th, 2010
12:39 pm

Doggone,

I’m not sure if you were setting up a straw man there or not, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. You wouldn’t just build a fence, clap your hands together and walk away. Of course you still need border patrol, and some combination of technology.

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m fairly sure the section of the border that has a fence has little to no border crossing problems.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:40 pm

“People build them to keep people out, and pets and kids in”

yep, that’s what they build them for…they just don’t work. I used to live in a neighborhood of “row houses” and all down the row of backyards EVERYON had fences. I stood back there one time and watched a big dog go right down the row, jumping over every fence.

Curious Observer

October 25th, 2010
12:40 pm

“Good fences make good neighbors.” Robert Frost

“Show me a 15-foot fence and I’ll show you a 16-foot ladder.” Anonymous

The entire project was an effort to placate the rubes who think it’s possible to police a long border and to apprehend all those who cross it illegally. They’re the same rubes who think it’s possible to round up millions of illegals and ship them across the borders.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:41 pm

“but only one of us is paying attention to how a nation gets there”

In otherwords “you know it when you see it” but you can’t actually define it. Why am I not surprised?

TINSTAAFL

October 25th, 2010
12:41 pm

Doggone,

You’re right. I cede the argument. In 100% of cases, fences will be completely ineffective. They have no effect whatsoever on anything at all ever crossing them.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:42 pm

“Of course you still need border patrol, and some combination of technology. ”

Ok, granted. How much more in taxes are you willing to pay to have it done? Given that we have something like 20,000 MILES of borders and a great deal of that is WATER, which can’t be fenced.

Scout

October 25th, 2010
12:42 pm

Jay:

It’s because it’s not HIGH VOLTAGE !

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:44 pm

“They have no effect whatsoever on anything at all ever crossing them.”

do you always deal in absolutes? They’re quite good at keeping out people who would stay out anyway. And from my experience with my dogs, they do a pretty good job of keeping out dogs that belong to others, keeping MINE IN, not always so much.

Fences are more to define a boundary than they are to protect it…ESPECIALLY when it comes to national borders.

TINSTAAFL

October 25th, 2010
12:44 pm

But tell me this Doggone. Of course you can get a 26 ft ladder for a 25 ft fence, but what will you do when you get down the other side? If anything, a fence will deter many from attempting it, and it will stop all automobile traffic through it. No more jeeps laden with a couple hundred pounds of coke slugging its way through the desert. I’m sure you can at least admit that a wall will have an effect on border crossings by making it significantly tougher.

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:45 pm

Doggone/Ga, I am not for tracking down everyone, we can ask all illegals to register and get work permits, for say 18 month’s, and if they don’t have records work out a plan for Citizenship, the ones that don’t register and get caught send them back.

We need to stop illegals from coming into our country, but we can’t do that with a Gov’t that doesn’t have any Cajones.

Mickey D

October 25th, 2010
12:45 pm

What a waste, you really think they are walking over to the US, think again, there are coming in from a tunnel which is why the whole fence idea is a bunck of hogwash.

Peadawg

October 25th, 2010
12:46 pm

Build fence(creates jobs). Add electricity. Done. Anyone hungry? :)

Or put snipers in towers. They won’t dare try to cross if they know they’ll get shot.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:46 pm

“If anything, a fence will deter many from attempting it, and it will stop all automobile traffic through it. ”

I suggest you check out the issue of smuggling tunnels. Over, under, through – fences are far too easily circumvented to be of any real use. As you said, it still takes PEOPLE to patrol that border. So answer the question: how much MORE in taxes are YOU willing to pay to have our borders completely secured?

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:48 pm

“we can ask all illegals to register and get work permits”

Ok, so you were in favor (as was I) of George Bush’s “Guest Worker program” then?

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:48 pm

Doggone/Ga that must have been one Hell of a Dog, or the fences were very short.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:48 pm

“but we can’t do that with a Gov’t that doesn’t have any Cajones.”

Oh, BTW, NO government has “cajones” if it doesn’t have the money to get the job done.

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:49 pm

I don’t have a problem with a Guest worker program if it’s handled fairly, for all Nationalities.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:49 pm

“They won’t dare try to cross if they know they’ll get shot.”

The experiences of East German “defectors” says otherwise.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
12:50 pm

“Doggone/Ga that must have been one Hell of a Dog, or the fences were very short”

Well, they were 4 foot fences, which is pretty much “standard” backyard fence height – and it was a Doberman.

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
12:51 pm

For the same price, how long of a real fence could we have built?

Doesn’t work. Ask CBP personnel who work in Nogales, AZ. They will tell you firsthand, not to park in areas right at the fence unless you want your hood and roof damaged everyday. Fences do not work without someone to apprehend the jumpers on the other side.

If you really want to see what happens on the Borders I suggest you watch Natgeo’s “Border Wars”
It is a good show.

Ken, it is a good “show”, but it does not give the whole story. If you really want the complete story, it’s best to get it firsthand from BP Agents who live that life day in and day out.

NowReally

October 25th, 2010
12:51 pm

If walls or fences worked, we wouldn’t have prison breaks. If there is a will, there is a way.

AmVet

October 25th, 2010
12:51 pm

The Luddite Reagan had his colossal failure known as SDI.

The Luddite Bush had his colossal failure known as SBI. (Though in Ronnie’s defense at least he didn’t have endless serial failures like George)

Both were all hat, no cattle…

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:51 pm

We scan find money for Wall Street but can’t find any to keep our own streets safe. Right

Aquagirl

October 25th, 2010
12:51 pm

Tin, if you can’t differentiate a yard fence from a border fence, there’s not much help for you.

godless heathen

October 25th, 2010
12:52 pm

$850 million. Entire Mexico / US border is 1969 miles. At almost 1/2 $million a mile, I could build a pretty good fence.

Another example of how giving money to big government is like giving alcohol and car keys to Kennedys.

ken R

October 25th, 2010
12:54 pm

SouthernComfort, I agree with you, however not knowing any Agents I can only watch the show, they have a tough Job.

AmVet

October 25th, 2010
12:54 pm

As for the dollar amount involved, that is not the issue.

The issue is a major political party that is constantly willing to do either nothing at all to resolve a complex problem or as a backup, to do the most simplistic, ineffective and misguided thing possible.

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
12:54 pm

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
12:56 pm

ken

I have an insider advantage when it comes to watching that show. It’s a good show, and it gives a better insight into the job that Border Patrol and CBP does when compared to previous shows, but it’s not complete. Some areas are non-stop action, while others are hit or miss.

LydiasDad

October 25th, 2010
12:56 pm

It’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Insist that it’s going to fail, and then make sure it does. There’s no reason for the fence to fail, unless the administrators want it to. It’s all politically correct, pro-illegal nonsense, and more Americans will die because of the it.

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
12:57 pm

“I stood back there one time and watched a big dog go right down the row, jumping over every fence.”

Well!!! That solves it then…fences don’t work!!!

Glad I moved out of Georgia

October 25th, 2010
12:57 pm

RB from Gwinnett

I now understand why the “Gwinnett is Great” water tower was torn down. I will now use your same broad brush but use a different color paint. I guess you Republicans are frustrated that Bush is not in the White House to bomb first and damn any compromise. P.S. Being social does not equate to socialism.

Mr_B

October 25th, 2010
12:57 pm

RB: the truth is that the citizens of many socialist countries did wake up one morning, walk to a polling place and use a free ballot to put a socialist government in power. Many of those also voted out socialist governments, sometimes for economic ineptitude, sometimes for other reasons.
But then, they hadn’t been taught that socialism was EEEEEVVIIIIL!!!!!! and instead tought it was one possible way of organizing an ecomony so that it worked better for more people.

Hey Bookman have a beer

October 25th, 2010
12:58 pm

Blame it all on Bush. Bookman you are such a hack. Stand up to Cynthia for once in your life.

Aquagirl

October 25th, 2010
1:01 pm

“At almost 1/2 $million a mile, I could build a pretty good fence.”

And for about $20 someone can get through it.

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:01 pm

AmVet – “The Luddite Bush had his colossal failure known as SBI.”

Um, you’re putting this whole thing on Dubbya? Why? Jay clarly points out that Obama wanted to finish it and proclaimed it to be wonderful. If he didn’t beleive in it, then he should have abandoned the program, much like his Gitmo stance….oh, wait, that didn’t work either…

Normal

October 25th, 2010
1:02 pm

Sniper towers, huh?

Read a story one time where some Mexican fanatics wanted Texas, Arizona, and New mexico back, so they started an invasion of illegals to lead the way. Our government got hold of the plan and sent its forces to stop the invasion at any cost. trouble was, the mexican fanatics sent women and children to cross….don’t care who you are, it’s hard to shoot a woman or a child…just saying.

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
1:02 pm

There’s no reason for the fence to fail, unless the administrators want it to. It’s all politically correct, pro-illegal nonsense, and more Americans will die because of the it.

Do you mean more Americans dying like these:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/border_patrol_officer_memorial/chron_listing_agents/

Do you think that Americans go to work everyday to purposely fail on the job just to prove your point?? Why don’t you go to the Sonoran Desert and pull a 90 day detail and see if you can make it fail too.

scrappy

October 25th, 2010
1:02 pm

Hundreds of people a year drown crossing the Rio Grande trying to get into the country. If the very real possibility of drowning doesn’t deter people, what makes you think fence will?

Why aren’t we hearing more screaming about the waste of tax dollars on this? Because apparently the perception of border security is more important than the reality of it.

JKL2

October 25th, 2010
1:04 pm

Doggone- The experiences of East German “defectors” says otherwise.

Nothing is perfect. Was the Berlin wall a deterent to crossing the border? Absolutely. Our current policy has no deterent on the border and basically no punishment for getting caught. I can’t believe our problems aren’t worse than they already are.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
1:04 pm

“That solves it then…fences don’t work!!!”

Ah HA – yet another dealer in absolutes.

ROY BARNES

October 25th, 2010
1:05 pm

Needs to be electric!!

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:05 pm

Normal – “Sniper towers, huh? the mexican fanatics sent women and children to cross”

They wouldn’t send them now if they knew there were going to get shot at. Besides, its the men who are the bread winners, not the women.

Confucius Say

October 25th, 2010
1:05 pm

The best virtual fence is one that invokes fear of loss of life at the least possible cost. Two options that come to mind are signs posted stating either, “Warning! US Artillery Range!” or “Warning! Minefield!”

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:05 pm

“Ah HA – yet another dealer in absolutes.”

Just following the Left-nut template!!!

Night Train

October 25th, 2010
1:06 pm

Dig a moat from the Gulf of Mexico all the way to the Pacific. 60 feet wide and 6-10 feet deep. Fill it with water, gators and crocodiles. Take the dirt from digging the moat and use it to fill in New Orleans. Solves three problems at once.
1- Gives us a more secure border. Not completely secure but better than it is now.
2- Raises the level of New Orleans to help prevent flooding.
3- Creates a habitat for gators and crocodiles.

In a few years there might be some record setting large gators and crocodiles. Great for hunting and making boots.

JKL2

October 25th, 2010
1:07 pm

Normal- it’s hard to shoot a woman or a child

It’s easy. You just don’t lead them as much…

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
1:08 pm

“Dig a moat from the Gulf of Mexico all the way to the Pacific”

How much more in taxes are you willing to pay, to pay for your “big ditch”?

Mick

October 25th, 2010
1:08 pm

Chicken little – the sky is falling, the sky is falling, some repubs – the socialists are coming, the socialists are coming….

Why not create military outposts all along the border for troop training in harsh desert conditions. As a by product the border gets enforced by boots on the ground

Shawny

October 25th, 2010
1:08 pm

Stupid waste of money for that crap.
Build a double wall fence that isn’t scalable, and viola!

joe

October 25th, 2010
1:08 pm

If our fed govt (Bush/Obama both to blame for doing next to nothing) would “man up” and put some troops on the border, we wouldn’t be wasting our time discussing stupid govt programs that fail miserably. Don’t need a fence if there someone there with an AK-47. The illegals would stop in their tracks.

RW-(the original)

October 25th, 2010
1:09 pm

Just slap an ARRA sign on it and call it a success.

Jackie

October 25th, 2010
1:09 pm

@Scout

You are a Viet Nam vet and you know that putting up wire around any compound did not work. The VC constantly penetrated the razor wire, foo-gas, Claymore mines, shotguns, starlight scopes and other military devices to keep them out.

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:10 pm

JKL2 – “t’s easy. You just don’t lead them as much…”

LOL.

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
1:10 pm

“As a by product the border gets enforced by boots on the ground”

To the best of my knowledge, the Posse Comitatus law prevents Federal troops from being used for any sort of law enforcement. They can only be used to protect our borders from a military invasion.

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
1:10 pm

How much more in taxes are you willing to pay, to pay for your “big ditch”?

lol!!!!!

Whether it’s more boots on the ground, a high tech fence, or a big ditch, the solution to the problem will not come without a price tag. The root question should be, as Doggone put it, how much of your tax money are you willing to spend to find a solution?

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:11 pm

Dog – “How much more in taxes are you willing to pay, to pay for your “big ditch”?”

You sure are on the “how much more in taxes are you willing to pay” kick day aren’t you? For an $850M project, the answer is zero, the money is already there, you just gotta find it.

Night Train

October 25th, 2010
1:13 pm

Doggone, Digging the moat should not cost very much. We could use all the illegals that we catch. Instead of deporting them right a way, sentence them to a year digging the moat. Just have prison guards on the US side. If they try and escape, they can only run south… into Mexico and back home. Catch them here a second time they get 2 years working on the moat… wearing leg irons.

Nice Guy

October 25th, 2010
1:15 pm

All this moat-digging non-sense is really giving me a good laugh…..keep it up!

JKL2

October 25th, 2010
1:16 pm

We already have the technology to solve the preoblem. We call them predator strikes. Works in Pakistan, I’m sure they would work here.

Me Again

October 25th, 2010
1:17 pm

Obama’s plan? Grant amnesty.

larry

October 25th, 2010
1:19 pm

850 million is how much we have already spent on this project.

Don't Forget

October 25th, 2010
1:20 pm

A fence huh? lol. Two questions. How tall? How deep? lol Ever heard of a tunnel????

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
1:20 pm

King of the world

October 25th, 2010
1:20 pm

Just when we thought the illegal aliens were kept out, the fence let them back in. (The GodGringo, Part Duh.)

Don't Forget

October 25th, 2010
1:21 pm

Ok, that was 3 questions. Had to add the last one to make sure the “fencers” could follow the logic.

Jackie

October 25th, 2010
1:21 pm

What is the plan to deal with illegal aliens who have served in a war support by the so-called conservatives?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hA64ehSM_gMiIll-3uIy5nQslsYg?docId=2baf89df6bbf495397d9b8727b20eb74

ChipShirley.COM

October 25th, 2010
1:22 pm

I’M CHANNELING HUEY LONG!

When it comes to MONEY ISSUES…the left and right, NPR to Fox have a
lot in common…they never crack on the trade deals, they don’t defend
Social Security…on and on…
Please check out my short video essay…
America You’ve Been Lied To!
CHIPSHIRLEY.COM
http://chipshirley.com/http://chipshirley.com/http://chipshirley.com/

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
1:24 pm

“For an $850M project, the answer is zero, the money is already there, you just gotta find it”

Apparently you are forgetting that THAT money is already spent – on a FAILED project. How much are YOU willing to pay in taxes to replace it?

Granny Godzilla

October 25th, 2010
1:24 pm

Speaking of failures…so were Bob Jindahls berns….

And they want to be in charge of the national wallet…..

Paulo977

October 25th, 2010
1:27 pm

Amnesty …YES!!!

AmVet

October 25th, 2010
1:27 pm

Guy, don’t hold me culpable for your desire to give GWB a free pass in these matters.

Yes, GWB II has followed many of his leads. Surging in Afghanistan, Gitmo, keeping the fascistic suspension of habeus corpus in place, etc, etc etc. Exactly as I predicted and exactly as the neo-cons mispredicted. But then they were so spectacularly wrong about GWB I, that it is not in the least surprising.

Had BushCorp not stupidly implemented these serial failures, his half-black nephew could not have furthered them. His mistake is the one most spineless Dems make now. They are so intimidated into being Republican-lites that they come across as equally incompetent.

And that is why they are going to pay the piper in a couple of weeks.

Blame it all nothing on Bush.

Jackie

October 25th, 2010
1:28 pm

The support of the “free enterprise” mantra put forth by the Repubs is rooted in the fact that large companies want cheap labor and will punish the American worker to maintain/grow their profits.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/120608dnmetwebvigilantes.3e8f989.html

Southern Comfort

October 25th, 2010
1:28 pm

For those who feel the border is broken, here’s your chance or opportunity to correct the problems you see:

Vacancy Ann #:BPA 11-1
Who May Apply:Public
Pay Plan:GL-1896/05-09
Appointment Term:Permanent
Job Status:Full-Time
Opening Date:10/01/2010
Salary Range:From $38,619.00 to $63,259.00 USD per year

If you pass the test, I’m almost certain you will get a job offer. This is your opportunity to help seal the borders. Act Quickly!!!!!

DebbieDoRight

October 25th, 2010
1:28 pm

People have been building walls and fences for thousands of years for a reason. It works.

Doesn’t work for Israel on the West Bank……and it’s not working here……

How do you cross a heavily guarded border? By going underneath it.

That’s the lesson of the Gaza tunnels, which we explored in January and February. It’s the key to undersea drug smuggling and terrorism via submarines. And it’s happening along the U.S.-Mexico land border, too. William Booth of the Washington Post, who brought us the latest on drug-running submersibles, has an update from U.S. Border Patrol agents in Arizona:

In the past nine months, they have discovered 16 new tunnels dug by smugglers in Nogales to move drugs, migrants, cash and weapons between Mexico and the United States. The number of tunnels sets a new record. … The digging has become so extensive beneath Nogales that the southbound traffic lane through the international port of entry collapsed. “Before that, the parking lot at the customs office caved in,” Howells said. “They collapse all the time.”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/humannature/archive/tags/tunnels/default.aspx

Whacks Eloquent

October 25th, 2010
1:31 pm

Night Train,

You forgot advantage #4…lowering sea levels worldwide to counteract polar ice melting due to global warming/climate change!
Oh, and advantage #5 – it can be an alternate to the Panama Canal!

Getting thru the Sierra Madres will be a bit tough though…

Doggone/GA

October 25th, 2010
1:32 pm

“Works in Pakistan, I’m sure they would work here”

I suggest you check into how much they cost per strike, then muliply that against using them on ALL of our borders. As you willing to pay more in taxes to pay for them all?

Keep up the good fight!

October 25th, 2010
1:33 pm

You can’t argue with stupidy….build the dang fence and waste more money. Then watch as the GOP/Tea Terrorists heckle real infrastructure projects and double down on the stupidity.

AmVet

October 25th, 2010
1:35 pm

“Obama’s plan? Grant amnesty.”

I see comparisons between him and Ronnie all the time.

This granting of amnesty and holding American business interests completely blameless for employing “illegals” could be another!

Don't Forget

October 25th, 2010
1:36 pm

Granny Godzilla

October 25th, 2010
1:24 pm
Speaking of failures…so were Bob Jindahls berms….

Very good analogy. We’re in trouble if we let the “hair on fire” “do something, anything” crowd that never thinks trough their ideas.

williebkind

October 25th, 2010
1:40 pm

Vitual fence! Thats like having virtual sex isnt it? I wanted a wall with barbed wire and armed patrols until the problem is resolved.