Pragmatism not a popular virtue in today’s GOP

A lot of mainstream Republicans have to be uneasy with the direction their party has taken in recent months. Sure, they’re willing to ride the Tea Party tsunami into the midterms, even with all the wacky candidates it has drawn into its wake, because it gives them a means to seize power from the hated Nancy Pelosi and maybe even Harry Reid. But looking beyond November, they also recognize the danger of letting that same passion and emotion dictate, say, a Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich or Mike Huckabee as their presidential nominee come 2012.

A nominee such as Mitt Romney would be more to their liking, but the man has way too much baggage to stuff in the overhead compartment. He authored the Massachusetts health-care plan that served as the model for ObamaCare; he can’t talk the conservative talk without coming off like an actor who lacks the chops to sound sincere; and his Mormon faith, unfortunately, remains a serious drawback in the South, where the GOP nomination is likely to be decided.

Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana

Gov. Mitch Daniels of Indiana

Another name you hear a lot is Mitch Daniels. He is an accomplished governor of Indiana; he was re-elected by an 18-point margin in 2008, the same year Obama took Indiana in the presidential race; and he has served as a director of the Office of Management and Budget, as head of the conservative Hudson Institute and as a senior adviser to Ronald Reagan. He is a government geek, which is not a bad thing.

However, with that much high-level executive experience, a person can’t help but become more pragmatic than ideological. Daniels has already angered social conservatives by suggesting that Americans need to call a national truce in the culture wars to allow us to focus on more important things. As governor, Daniels has also found it necessary to propose major tax hikes — in addition to major spending cuts — as a way to balance Indiana’s books.

As if that weren’t bad enough, Daniels further concedes that “at some stage there could well be a tax increase” at the federal level as well. Just last week, in a speech to the Hudson Institute, he spoke supportively of both a value-added tax, or VAT, as well as a tax on imported oil.

The repercussions were swift, as Politico’s James Hohmann documents:

“This is outside the bounds of acceptable modern Republican thought, and it is only the zone of extremely left-wing Democrats who publicly talk about those things because all Democrats pretending to be moderates wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole,” Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist told POLITICO. “Absent some explanation, such as large quantities of crystal meth, this is disqualifying. This is beyond the pale.”

Now, Norquist is a man prone to throwing hissy fits, but he is also the conservatives’ most important ideological enforcer on tax matters. When he declares Daniels’ statements “outside the bounds of acceptable modern Republican thought,” it means something.

U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis.

U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis.

While we’re on the subject, let’s talk a little more about the VAT, which is a centerpiece of many European economies. For those unfamiliar with the concept, a VAT is kind of like a sales tax, but it’s assessed in stages and paid by businesses rather than consumers. For example, if a business buys $100 in raw materials, processes that material and then sells it for $175, it pays a VAT on that $75, or the amount of value it added.

President Obama has occasionally mentioned a VAT as a possible option in a much larger tax reform, which of course touched off instant anger among many on the right. That’s why Norquist responded as he did to Daniels’ statement. It’s “not quite up there with being a World War II re-enacter, but it’s close,” he said, referring to Rich Iott, a Republican congressional candidate from Ohio whose hopes were dashed once it was discovered that he liked to dress up in SS uniforms.

Interestingly, though, Norquist and his group also happen to be strong backers of U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan’s so-called “roadmap” to fiscal responsibility. If Republicans regain control of the House, Ryan would be in line to head the House Budget Committee and thus able to try to implement that plan.

But here’s the thing: The Ryan roadmap clearly includes a VAT. He may relabel it a “business consumption tax,” but it functions exactly as a VAT would function, as at least some conservatives admit.

In other words, Mitch Daniels’ almost casual mention of a VAT gets him read out of the conservative movement, while Paul Ryan proposes the same thing but remains a conservative hero. Strange stuff. (For a good explanation of how such a thing is possible, read this.)

208 comments Add your comment

Don't Forget

October 18th, 2010
10:05 am

Booger Sandwich

October 18th, 2010
10:11 am

Just because someone dresses up in a Nazi uniform, screams Zig Heil, does the goosestep, kills a few jews and sends other jews to a concentation camp doesnt make them a “card carrying” Nazi.

Come on…

Don't Forget

October 18th, 2010
10:12 am

Pragmatism isn’t found in any politician seeking election or re-election. Which brings up the point:
If we continue in this never ending election cycle where election level politics never stop, when will we actually govern?

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:18 am

Yeap, just call it something else and the wingnuts think it’s okay.

Paul, left you some notes downstairs.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:18 am

a “10 foot POLL”?

Jefferson

October 18th, 2010
10:18 am

The GOP just talk about problems, they don’t have the balls to solve any, and in the end just create more.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 18th, 2010
10:20 am

Well, I say no tax increases! We need to keep cutting taxes till guvmint goes out of business. You can’t drown something in a bathtub if you keep feeding it so it gets bigger and pulls you in and drowns you.

And us Conservatives got plenty of good canadates for President. Like Sarah. But all we ever hear when her name comes up is a bunch of snickers. Or Newt. He’s got the kind of Fambly Values we need.

I agree we got to have this prag- whatchamacallit. But we can have that without a bunch of new taxes. It’s better if everybody starves to death or gets kilt by crooks or drives in gulleys than we send one more penny to Washington.

Have a good day everybody.

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:20 am

why – why – WHY is Grover “drag it (the government) into the bathroom and drown it in a bathtub” Norquist still taken seriously??? could someone please explain that to me???

otherwise, knowing how certain members of the Bookman Bible Thumper club feel, I would have loved to be able to see the vein in the middle of their forehead pop over Daniels’ quote about ignoring the culture wars to spend time on more important issues … for there there IS no more important issue than prayer and what goes on in other people’s pants!

md

October 18th, 2010
10:20 am

“If we continue in this never ending election cycle where election level politics never stop, when will we actually govern?”

I believe it is called “crisis” management.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:22 am

It’s not a civil war, it’s a violent dispute between two factions in the same country, but it’s not a civil war.

(Which, btw, a “civil” war is an oxymoron, no?)

Tamika

October 18th, 2010
10:24 am

So…Jay can’t defend the democrats either. His rhetoric has already shifted to the post election attack mode. We know what we have to look forward to from the progressives…more attack, attack, attack. They have a record they cannot defend.

Jay

October 18th, 2010
10:25 am

I fixed it, Doggone. That was in the original Politico quote; it’s probably an instinctive spelling for those on that site (cite, sight).

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:25 am

“for there there IS no more important issue than prayer and what goes on in other people’s pants!”

Oh sh*t.

Mick

October 18th, 2010
10:25 am

Maybe this awful period we are going through can be likened to being in a coma; at some point we will reawaken and have to go through a period of a lengthy rehab before we are well again and resume our proper place in the world.

Don't Forget

October 18th, 2010
10:27 am

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:22 am
It’s not a civil war, it’s a violent dispute between two factions in the same country, but it’s not a civil war.

I tend to think of it as a civil “cold war”.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:27 am

“That was in the original Politico quote”

yeah, I figured. It’s easy to forgive those kind of mistakes on something like this blog…but you’d think a publisher could afford to have someone at least EDIT what they publish for those kind of mistakes!

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:28 am

A few snippits from The Wall Street Journal, Feb 26th, 2010 regarding The Obamacare summit held at Blair House.

“The top two Democrats on Capitol Hill said they would press forward on health overhaul legislation with or without bipartisan support, which would mean using a legislative process known as reconciliation. “We need to have the courage to get this job done, and we will,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California said after the meeting. She said she was hopeful that Republicans and Democrats would work together, but added she was “not overly optimistic.”

and

At the end of the session, the president suggested that if no deal was at hand, Democrats would press forward alone and let voters be the ultimate judge. “That’s what elections are for,” he said.

This is why the Dems will lose by a landslide in two weeks.

If Obamacare had been tabled, the Dems would maintain control after November and the POTUS would be much more popular with American voters.

Tah-Dah !

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:32 am

“If Obamacare had been tabled”

Now, I’m not a huge fan of the health care bill because I wanted a single payer system, but it’s amazing to me how the GOP has managed to demonize the bill so much and make it so toxic when in essence it is better for the population as a whole — it’s not the best, but I’m not so sure why they think that some of the provisions like not dropping people when they get sick and people being able to get insurance when they have pre-existing conditions and so forth are so horrible bad.

The Democrats are stupid for not capitalizing on this.

I know people who have been dropped and such who hate the health care bill until I remind them that the bill would help them, and it’s like they come out of a fog and realize, “Oh yeah, you’re right”

People are really blinded by rhetoric I think.

Bubba Bob

October 18th, 2010
10:33 am

Which begs me to ask….which Democrats are so pragmatic? Pelosi, Reid…?

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:34 am

Bubba,

Obama for one.

md

October 18th, 2010
10:36 am

“it’s not the best, but I’m not so sure why they think that some of the provisions like not dropping people when they get sick and people being able to get insurance when they have pre-existing conditions and so forth are so horrible bad.”

Maybe you just hit the nail on the head – it took them 1220+ pages to say what you did in 2 sentences.

Changes were needed, but they didn’t have to re-invent the wheel to do it.

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:37 am

Bosch – You’re missing the whole point. It’s a terrible bill but the way it was rammed through the process has not been forgotten. Pelosi, Reid and Obama did it their way without any support from the opposition party. That’s a stupid way to show “pragmatism”.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:38 am

md,

Sigh. Nobody called me. :-(

Think of the trees I could have saved.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:39 am

“but the way it was rammed through the process”

Oh stop with the talking points and soundbites — the damn thing was debated for almost a freaking year.

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:40 am

“Pelosi, Reid and Obama did it their way without any support from the opposition party.”

are you flipping KIDDING me??? they got everything they asked for and they STILL voted against it! so, please spare us the Billy-No-Mates crocodile tears.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:40 am

“did it their way without any support from the opposition party.”

And there were something like 200 amendments in the damn thing put in there by the Republicans. Give me a break.

The Democrats, like usual, are really bad and hysteria, to their downfall. If they were smart they would be tromping the GOP as the warriors who are keeping your from being insured.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:41 am

“but I’m not so sure why they think that some of the provisions like not dropping people when they get sick and people being able to get insurance when they have pre-existing conditions and so forth are so horrible bad.”

Who is saying they are oppossed to those 2 things?

Seems people are more upset about a government mandate that one purchase insurance or pay a fine? Or the many backroom shady deals that had to happen in order to get the bill passed in the first place….

But me peronally, my biggest complaint was that the administration chose to take this on and ignored the economy for nearly an entire year.

Talk about blind ideology!

But again Bosch who has been complaing? Cause i know you wouldn’t be putting words into other people’s mouths.

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:41 am

Bosch – JINX!

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:41 am

@ 10:40

make that “bad AT hysteria”

Like Al Gore’s campaign, the midterms are there’s to lose.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:41 am

“That’s a stupid way to show “pragmatism”.”

Never mind that there were numerous R amendments to that bill…when push came to shove, they wouldn’t support anyway. Why did they even BOTHER offering amendments to it?

“It was bipartisan, administration officials explained, because it contained 160 Republican amendments.”

http://www.slate.com/id/2223023/

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
10:43 am

You’re missing the whole point. It’s a terrible bill but the way it was rammed through the process has not been forgotten. Pelosi, Reid and Obama did it their way without any support from the opposition party. That’s a stupid way to show “pragmatism”.

So, by your logic, if someone saved your life by kicking out your windshield and dragging you away from your burning car after a wreck, you would be mad because they kicked out your windshield damaging your car and scuffed your shoes while dragging you to safety, right? It’s all about the process. Also, if you remember, the Democratic party wanted a single payer system and the Republican Party adamently opposed it. If removing that from the bill is not working with the opposition, then nothing short of writing a Republican plan would have been working with them.

AmVet

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

thomas, I concurred with your post until this – “…ignored the economy for nearly an entire year.”

That is simply incorrect, and the facts can prove so…

md

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

“Oh stop with the talking points and soundbites — the damn thing was debated for almost a freaking year.”

And only moved forward when your goddess Ms Snowe ate the forbidden fruit which caused her temporary insanity in believing they would negotiate in good faith only to have them betray her good will………………

Crammed through and ran over the one Repub that tried to help them……..

getalife

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

I think the left can admit the government is too big, too intrusive and the waste too much of our money and tax cuts is a good idea.

I think the right can admit no regulations is a horrible idea after the collapse and other disasters.

We can find common ground and move forward.

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

The moonbats are howling again….

Wait until November 3rd.

LMAO !

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

“that the administration chose to take this on and ignored the economy for nearly an entire year”

dude. seriously?

he took office in January 2009 … passed the TARP extension not long after … passed the stimulus bill in February 2009 … passed HAMP in March 2009 … extended unemployment …

criminey … talk about willful blindness

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:45 am

“then nothing short of writing a Republican plan would have been working with them”

SoCo – not so far off when one side defines “bipartisan” as “do it OUR way, or not at all”

DawgDad

October 18th, 2010
10:45 am

Ahh, a view of the right from the far left. Palin, Gingrich, and Huckabee don’t “scare” me at all. Leftist liberal Democrats scare the pants off of me.

And don’t believe the base ranks of the Democratic Party are impenetrable. The spillover from implementation of ObamaCare and the economy is already starting to open the eyes of many liberal young people, far earlier than the “normal” political maturation process would otherwise. As soon as the real deep pains of ObamaCare implementation hits I predict there will be a huge exodus from the Dems.

The challenge is for the R’s to behave responsibly, not like RINOs.

RW-(the original)

October 18th, 2010
10:46 am

It seems like (sic) would be a better choice than changing poll to pole since you’re no longer quoting, but what do I know.

I’m more concerned about whether the fonts are tres fubar or my eyes are shot.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:46 am

Didn’t dems have the require 60 members to avoid a filibuster at the time of the HC bill’s original talk?

why didn’t they pass it then?

Why did they have to bribe members of their own party and then bribe unions to ensure the unions could avoid the “cadillac plan” fees?

I have not heard one single republican say that NO health care reform was needed at all. Maybe I am mistaken but I was unaware of any elected republicans claiming that NOTHING should be done…

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:47 am

My soundbites and talking points are working across America.

The leftists are squirming and cackling like farm animals.

The unions, MoveOn and Bill Maher ain’t gonna save the Dems in this election.

md

October 18th, 2010
10:47 am

“Also, if you remember, the Democratic party wanted a single payer system and the Republican Party adamently opposed it.”

As I recall, the dems had the votes and removed it to satisfy the dems that would not vote for it………

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:48 am

AmVet

October 18th, 2010
10:44 am

You are correct!

I used bad phrasing.

they were engaged in the economy.

however they seemed to be more consumed with passing health care.

Giving the perception that they were ignoring the economy.

Apologies.

getalife

October 18th, 2010
10:48 am

You lost the health care bill md. Get over it. There will be other votes on that bill in the future to tweak it.

Disgusted

October 18th, 2010
10:49 am

Wait until November 3rd.

Read your FoxNews.com today. It may be well after Thanksgiving before anybody knows which party controls the House. There are so many Franken/Coleman-like races that recounts in multiple races are inevitable. My advice is not to assume that November 3 will offer a new dawn.

Karl Rove

October 18th, 2010
10:49 am

Competence … pragmatism … solving problems … BORING! Let’s continue with politics-as-entertainment and name-calling. It gets votes!

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
10:49 am

Doggone

I’ll be waiting with baited breath to see how “bipartisan” things will be when the GOP regains control of either house. I won’t hold my breath for fear of suffocation though.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:50 am

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
10:43 am

Don’t forget though that from your example the government will also be breaking out windsheilds and dragging people to safety who were not ever in a crash and who’s life was not in danger…

Unless you pay a fine then they will of course leave your windshield alone.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:50 am

“I won’t hold my breath for fear of suffocation though.”

No, I won’t hold my breath either.

Jay

October 18th, 2010
10:50 am

“The challenge is for the R’s to behave responsibly, not like RINOs.”

ah yes.

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

RW – 10:46 – it’s not your eyes … the fonts are, indeed, fubar

Paul

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

Jay

“For those unfamiliar with the concept, a VAT is kind of like a sales tax, but it’s assessed in stages and paid by businesses rather than consumers.”

On my last trip to Europe, I’d fill out a form, purchase goods and have the VAT removed. I then had to process the forms a customs. If I didn’t, the VAT

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

BTW – The pied piper of moonbats, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH 10), is likely to be behind in his reelection campaign by 4-5 points.

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

md

So the GOP was not against it?

Paul

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

continued

the VAT would be reimposed.

So I was responsible for paying it, too. Not just businesses.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

“who were not ever in a crash and who’s life was not in danger…”

Yep, that’s exactly what car insurance does. Makes you pay, even though you’ve never had an accident or filed a claim. Robbers!

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:52 am

“As I recall, the dems had the votes and removed it to satisfy the dems that would not vote for it………”

um. then they didn’t have the votes. just sayin.

Kamchak

October 18th, 2010
10:52 am

Wait until November 3rd.

Then what?

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:53 am

“So I was responsible for paying it, too. Not just businesses.”

Nope, you were always responsible for paying it. Businesses don’t print the money they use to pay their taxes…they get it from their customers.

Paul

October 18th, 2010
10:53 am

Bosch

“Paul, left you some notes downstairs.”

“I do try and keep it classy on the blog. ”

You just always try to be different from everybody else, don’t you?

:-)

md

October 18th, 2010
10:53 am

“passed the TARP extension not long after … passed the stimulus bill in February 2009 … passed HAMP in March 2009 …”

Yep, strikes 1, 2 and 3.

TARP – bailing out the banks………..

Stimulus – wasting a billion on pet projects and paybacks……..

HAMP – are you serious?? Have you looked at the conditions?? and the results??? Toyally worthless program. 1/4 of folks are upside down, want to refi, and can’t under this program….and those are folks that are still paying their mortgage…….at a HIGHER interest rate.

USinUK

October 18th, 2010
10:53 am

Paul – you are correct, sir … everyone pays it on non-essential items

getalife

October 18th, 2010
10:54 am

They tossed the kitchen sink at the economy so the ignore thing is a lie.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:55 am

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:51 am

not factually correct ma’am.

noone forces you to cover yourself. Only other drivers, pedestrians, and others property in case YOU damage it. But there is not anything forcing you to cover your own car.

hell for that matter it is an option to drive, so you simply don’t have to do it.

But feel free to play fast and loose with the facts to help your argument.

Also you did understand that i was responding to an analogy right, not an actual event?

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:55 am

the Obamacare bill be starved of any money when the Conservatives take over in January. The majority will use Reconciliation to get thsi done. Get over it!

The Dems are gonna love having the tables turned 180 degrees.

Forget bipartisanship. There will be none.

Dems will get 0% of what they want.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:56 am

“hell for that matter it is an option to drive”

And it’s an option to live. You can always commit suicide.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:56 am

getalife

October 18th, 2010
10:54 am

what good is throwing a broken sink?

BTW they did not throw a sink they threw MONEY at the economy. Nothing else unless you bought the Obama lie of shovel ready jobs as a selling point.

Didn’t he just admit there was no such thing?

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
10:56 am

Please forgive my spelling and grammar. I am multitasking…

md

October 18th, 2010
10:57 am

“So the GOP was not against it?”

Sure they were, but let’s call it like it was. They weren’t going to vote for it regardless……so there would have been no need to change it, right??

The fact of the matter is it was changed to satisfy the dems that opposed, not the GOP……

@@

October 18th, 2010
10:57 am

In other words, Mitch Daniels’ almost casual mention of a VAT gets him read out of the conservative movement, while Paul Ryan proposes the same thing but remains a conservative hero. Strange stuff.

Strange, indeed, jay, since it wasn’t that long ago when you declared that conservative Republicans were opposed to Ryan’s tax reform measures. Now….when it’s convenient?

I’ll take Daniels AND Ryan.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:57 am

“The majority will use Reconciliation to get thsi done”

Reconciliation can’t force the President to sign it into law.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
10:57 am

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
10:56 am

Awesome so you advocate suicide for those oppossed to ObamaCare?

Your words not mine.

Thats seriously your solution or rebuttle?

Classy!

AmVet

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

No worries, thomas.

If anything the Obama administration can be accused of trying to do too much too quickly. Especially by Washington standards. Remember that the HCR, as flawed as it is, was first tried by Democrats back in the early Clinton years. And in all of that ensuing time the GOP has not really touched the topic. And it seems that they still will do as little to change the failed status quo as is possible.

BHO has taken some big risks, which is the complete antithesis of the GOP. Who will play it safe so as to not upset their hard-core base. They’ll skirt the edges and tweak a couple of things here and there, but they are not remotely interested in fundamental, substantial improvements.

And they have, rightly or not, earned the moniker of the Party of No…

md

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

“You lost the health care bill md. Get over it.”

Ii is what it is…….just pointing out the way it happened vs revisionist history by some.

RW-(the original)

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

RW – 10:46 – it’s not your eyes … the fonts are, indeed, fubar

Thank goodness, now I can head out to the forest with less worries about crashing into a sToP SiGn.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

md,

Real SoCo’s post at 10:43 — once again I appoint him as my official spokesperson. And you leave my Snowe Goddess alone!

Union

October 18th, 2010
11:01 am

as opposed to the dems… some of which are running “against” their own speaker.. i could see how jay would dig this one out though.. :)

Del

October 18th, 2010
11:01 am

The left should be far more concerned with what could occur within the Democratic party after the mid-term elections. If Republicans succeed in the predicted ousting of Congressional Democrats in large numbers, the surviving moderate Dem’s might begin pushing the party toward the right marginalizing the far-left that has taken over the party for many years. The left will continue their denial that the country is really center right and continue pushing an agenda that the public has repudiated. Obama will be stuck between a rock and a hard place but his far leftist ideology will prevent him from moving toward the center like Clinton needed to do, thus it will be lights out for his presidency in 012 anyway regardless of who the Republican choose as their nominee.

getalife

October 18th, 2010
11:03 am

The economy is up and running. It worked. Move on.

The health care billed passed. Get over it.

We will move forward not back.

Man up.

Not My Real Name

October 18th, 2010
11:03 am

And on the pathetic yet hilarious side we have Barney Frank and his boyfriend, James Ready.

Since Barney is struggling in his reelection campaign “pragmatism” would dictate that a smart politician would get his lover to heckle the opposing candidate. Even Sean Bielat and the Taxachussettes media think Mr. Ready is a fruitloop for doing something so dumb.

Granny Godzilla

October 18th, 2010
11:05 am

“Pragmatism not a popular virtue in today’s GOP”

That’s mostly because they don’t know what it means.

Kinda’ like “amnesty”

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

Paul,

I think my definition of what is and is not “classy” is probably different than most. :-) So, yeah, I can be rather different by many definition. :-)

md

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

It is also quite telling that most of the dems are campaigning without even mentioning the hc bill – that speaks volumes……………..

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:06 am

Hi Mrs. G.,!

Or “socialism”

thomas

October 18th, 2010
11:07 am

AmVet

October 18th, 2010
10:58 am

Sorry, we simply disagree on your assesment of the President.

I would also argue that throwing money at and “not letting a crisi go to waste” are not paying attention to.

much of the Stimulus has been shown to not be for immediate improvemnet of the economy. If they honestly read the bill and thought this would stimulate the economy in a quick fashion they they are INCOMPETENT. As the president himself has recently admitted there was no such thing as shovel ready projects? So why did he lie to us all to sell the bill?

BTW do you consider parents who just give their kids money but don’t ever help their child grow as a person or improve themselves as paying attention to their children?

Or are they just throwing money at them so their kids will like them?

thats kinda how I see our president.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:08 am

md,

Yeah, I find that interesting too — how the “liberal” media has assisted the population into thinking the HC bill is so toxic.

If I were a Democrat candidate – I’d be yelling from the rooftops how the GOP want to drop you from coverage if you get sick and not insure you if you have a pre-existing condition.

Like I said, these mid-terms are theirs to lose.

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
11:09 am

thomas

I was making an observation that he was saying “It’s a terrible bill BUT the way it was rammed through the process has not been forgotten.” I took that as him meaning that it was a terrible bill, but he was more upset over the process that it was approved. By that logic, if someone did something for him, he would place more emphasis on the process that it was done versus the outcome of the action itself.

md

October 18th, 2010
11:09 am

“um. then they didn’t have the votes. just sayin.”

Uhhhh….exactly.

They had the numbers but not the votes……and changed to bill to get the votes from THEIR “side”. This is simple side chooser math folks……………but, don’t blame it all on one side without pointing some fingers at the other. That’s just dishonest.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:10 am

And let’s face it folks, it all pragmaticality (is that a word?) — there are some tough things we need to hear and do, and the politicians just aren’t equipped to do it.

thomas

October 18th, 2010
11:11 am

getalife

October 18th, 2010
11:03 am

the economy is up and running?

seriously go talk to one of the 1 out of 10 who have no job to go to.

Ask them how fast the economy is running.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

“seriously go talk to one of the 1 out of 10 who have no job to go to.
Ask them how fast the economy is running”

I wonder what answer you’d get from the other 9 people who ARE working?

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

md

Ok, I understand what you were saying now. I read the first statement to mean that the GOP was not against the single payer option. My mistake

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

thomas,

“seriously go talk to one of the 1 out of 10 who have no job to go to.”

And in all seriousness – there are only so many things the government can do to fix that — people are going to have to start realizing that we just don’t have the jobs here.

Union

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

thomas.. “the economy is up and running” – obama said so.. meanwhile.. the fed is looking to print more money..

thomas

October 18th, 2010
11:14 am

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
11:09 am

And my point was… what about those who needed no help and still have to grind through the process… eventhough they didn’t need a process?

What do you say to the people who’s life has been made worse or more expensive by the health care bill?

Screw them? they don’t matter cause it helps others?

Dave

October 18th, 2010
11:15 am

Didn’t Bill Clinton convince the Dems on the fence that they wouldn’t be re-elected if they DIDN’T vote for it???

Dems find careers threatened by Obamacare votes

“Seven months ago Speaker Nancy Pelosi spent a busy week rounding up votes to pass the Senate version of the Democrats’ health care legislation.

It wasn’t easy. She had to get Democrats who had voted no in November to switch to yes in March. And she had to get Democrats who had refused to vote for the bill in November without an anti-abortion amendment to vote for a bill in March that lacked that language.

She took the unusual step of scheduling the roll call for Saturday — so members wouldn’t go back to their districts and be besieged by Obamacare opponents.

Those opponents, according to polls at that time, included most American voters. But Pelosi, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton predicted the bill would become more popular after it was passed (and, Pelosi said, after people had a chance to read it).

National polls indicate that hasn’t happened yet. But what about the districts of the House Democrats who cast the key votes that made Obamacare law? Those Democrats have an interest in persuading constituents of the law’s merits. So how are they doing?

In general, not very well.”

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:15 am

“What do you say to the people who’s life has been made worse or more expensive by the health care bill?”

Why don’t we answer that in 2014 — or does your crystal ball tell you your life is going to be ruined by then?

thomas

October 18th, 2010
11:16 am

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:13 am

But 850 billion? Shovel Ready Jobs?

Why did we spend the 850B then?

It wasn’t to bring in jobs “shovel ready” ones like we were told, cause now we are told by the same person those shovel ready jobs never existed.

Del

October 18th, 2010
11:16 am

“people are going to have to start realizing that we just don’t have the jobs here”

Bosch, why don’t we have jobs here?

thomas

October 18th, 2010
11:17 am

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
11:15 am

Let’s not go into crystal balls after you already proclaimed to know what the mass majority of republicans object to the HC bill about.

But, are you saying that a person who volutarily did not have insurance and paid for their expenses out of pocket will not have health care be more expensive?

Did they do away with the provision of being fined if one does not get coverage?