Can gov’t install GPS device on your car without a warrant?

I don’t understand the mental gymnastics required to believe that this kind of thing is OK:

From NPR:

Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.

The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.

Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi’s Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.

The FBI claims that it has the unrestricted power to attach the GPS tracker to any vehicle it chooses — yours, mine, Afifi’s — without a judicial warrant or other check on its power. The Obama administration agrees, as does the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, based in San Francisco. In a case involving an alleged marijuana trafficker, the court ruled that “the only information the agents obtained from the tracking devices was a log of the locations where Pineda-Moreno’s car traveled, information the agents could have obtained by following the car.”

But Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th Circuit, very much disagrees, arguing that the device is something straight out of Orwell’s “1984″:

“By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn’t impair an individual’s reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives.”

A federal appeals court in Washington agrees with Kozinski and has ruled that a warrant is required. It threw out the conviction of an alleged cocaine dealer who had been tracked for four weeks using the GPS device. The question appears headed for the Supreme Court, where — astonishly to me — legal experts predict that use of the device will be upheld.

So what makes the GPS tracking system different than being tailed? To my mind, it’s the installation of the device on another person’s property, without their permission and knowledge and without having to justify to a court why the intrusion is necessary. That seems a blatant violation of the right to privacy and the expectation of privacy.

At its root, the issue comes down to the Founders’ intent in trying to protect individual rights. No, they didn’t explicitly write prohibitions of such practices into the Bill of Rights, because they could not have conceived of the technology involved. But had they known, I have no doubt they would have rejected a warrantless intrusion of this magnitude by government.

(FYI, in the case used as an example above, Afifi’s attorney claims that he “was targeted because of his extensive ties to the Middle East, which include supporting two brothers who live in Egypt and making frequent overseas trips,” NPR reports. “His father was a well-known Islamic-American community leader who died last year in Egypt.”)

337 comments Add your comment

tipster

October 18th, 2010
12:02 pm

Father O' Toole

October 18th, 2010
12:08 pm

Thought crime is just around the corner.

Mr. Snarky

October 18th, 2010
12:11 pm

Agreed. It’s not the same as following someone…no car chases or stakeouts with bad take out food involved.

Guy Incognito

October 18th, 2010
12:14 pm

Wow! I agree w JB.

Guess I’d better watch the news tonight for the coverage of that snowball fight in hell

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

October 18th, 2010
12:17 pm

Well, now you know why I put several wads of toilet paper in the toilet before I set down. I don’t want to go on the innernet tubes one day and see my Private Parts posted for everybody to see.

Bookman’s story is every good Christian redneck’s most worst nightmare. Of course, the guy with the car they put the GPS thingy in was probly a Terrist. You can tell by his name. He’s a Muslim, so he must be guilty. But the rest of us don’t want the guvmint tracking where we’re going to or following us around. This is what happens when you elect Socialists. Next thing you know, they’ll be finding out I voted for J.B. Stoner way back there.

So you can put this Conservative down in favor of Privacy. Unless it’s to catch dope users or homos or something like that. They don’t deserve Privacy.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

md

October 18th, 2010
12:19 pm

But, where is the outrage?? I mean, the really ugly outrage we would see if it was the last admin doing this?? 2 peas in a pod, but then again…not so much.

Hillbilly Deluxe

October 18th, 2010
12:21 pm

In my opinion, a warrant should be required. I guess we’ll find out if I’m, right, when it gets to the Supreme Court.

ATF

October 18th, 2010
12:24 pm

We are still at war. It isn’t a war we pay much attention to – our daily lives are little affected by it now, we sadly hear of American deaths, but then go right back to work, or looking for work, send the kids to school in the morning, and mow the grass or rake leaves on the weekend.

It is a strange war. Will we decide we are at peace when the troops come home from Afghanistan? There will be no peace treaty. What will be the signal? Does Congress have to declare an end to war as they have to declare its beginning?

Peadawg

October 18th, 2010
12:26 pm

“…without a judicial warrant or other check on its power. The Obama administration agrees,…”

Yikes!!

Union

October 18th, 2010
12:29 pm

onstar does it.. your cell phone does it.. (you can turn off the gps.. but records can still show where you were) you cannot surf the internet without someone knowing exactly where you are…

so i can physically tail a car.. fuel.. money.. greenhouse.. global warming.. or i can stick a gps on there.. whats the issue?

getalife

October 18th, 2010
12:29 pm

Southern Comfort er Big Brother was discussing this last night.

I think private detectives use it to catch cheaters.

I am for freedom and big brother tracking me is not freedom.

Peadawg

October 18th, 2010
12:30 pm

Union, onstar and the federal gov’t are 2 different things…talk about apples and oranges.

Matti

October 18th, 2010
12:32 pm

md,

I do think it’s outrageous, and I’m extremely disappointed to read that “the Obama administration agrees” with the FBI’s position. I certainly hope that this directive does not come from the President himself, and that it’s a result of “letting law enforcement do their job.” Let’s hope the Supremes will do their jobs, weigh it fully, and find in favor of individual rights.

md

October 18th, 2010
12:34 pm

“It is a strange war. Will we decide we are at peace when the troops come home from Afghanistan? There will be no peace treaty. What will be the signal? Does Congress have to declare an end to war as they have to declare its beginning?”

This is the “reality TV” generation. “War” is just another program that many don’t tune in.

Reality will only return when the “war” affects the lives of all………..vs a few.

jt

October 18th, 2010
12:34 pm

To protect our children and families,

GPS trackers should be mandatory on every Federal Official’s automoblie.

This info should be web-wide.

Paulo977

October 18th, 2010
12:35 pm

Hillbilly
The Supreme Court’s decision will of course depend on who is residing in the WhiteHouse!!

Union

October 18th, 2010
12:36 pm

pea.. that i know.. the point is.. we are subjected to “tracking” in every thing we do.. from grocery stores, gas stations.. yet.. something like this brings ire for some reason.. when we hear about a terrorist cell being broken up.. arrested.. etc. we will never know how many lives were saved.. maybe 1.. maybe a 100.. whats more important? you thinking the govt is gonna track you or saving 1 life?

andygrd

October 18th, 2010
12:36 pm

While this is a topic for discussion…. More importantly, as of today’s date, military service personnel around the world are being denied the opportunity to vote because of the actions of various state officials to send out ballots. If this was happening in Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, the air waves would be buzzing and cries of foul, racism , corruption and everything else…..
Oh that’s right, most military vote along conservative lines, so no big deal…….
You can serve your country, but you are denied the ability to vote…. One big problem was in Illinois,,,, hum, makes you wonder…… Check out NYC as well and others….

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
12:44 pm

Amazing how some people don’t care about our rights just as long as they think it doesn’t matter to them personally or something may never happen to them.

md

October 18th, 2010
12:44 pm

It boils down to privacy and choices.

One can choose to have On Star, or a phone, or any other device with tracking capabilities. One can not choose to have a gps planted – much less without a warrant.

Warrant is the key – for even in our homes the technology is there to “see” and “hear” everything we do…………….

El Jefe

October 18th, 2010
12:47 pm

Why is this difficult? The 4th Amendment is very clear.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Since other Supreme Court ruling have extended to the car the same protection as “Houses” – why is there even a discussion?

Union

October 18th, 2010
12:49 pm

md.. thats a very very naive thinking process.. its already being done.. you have agreed to things with your isp just being online. ppl have a “hobby” of listening to cell phone and land line calls.. your email can be read.. both personal and private.. even those items you have deleted.

you need to lock your doors and lower your shades..

md

October 18th, 2010
12:53 pm

“md.. thats a very very naive thinking process.. its already being done..”

“Already being done” and “right” are 2 totally different concepts…………..

Hillbilly Deluxe

October 18th, 2010
12:54 pm

The Supreme Court’s decision will of course depend on who is residing in the WhiteHouse!!

Not really. (I’m not sure if your post was meant to be taken seriously or in jest).

Hillbilly Deluxe

October 18th, 2010
12:55 pm

“Already being done” and “right” are 2 totally different concepts…………..

Ain’t that the truth?

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:00 pm

need to read the fine print on all of your contracts..

so whats the bottom line difference in tailing a car.. and sticking a gps on a car?

carlosgvv

October 18th, 2010
1:01 pm

The book 1984 actually came out in 1948. At the time it was considered absurd to think anything like this could ever happen. Years later we still aren’t there. But we’re getting closer every day.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
1:03 pm

“Reality will only return when the “war” affects the lives of all………..vs a few.”

Which is why I’ve always thought we should have had a “war tax” on every single thing purchased in this country.

As to topic, didn’t agree with it then, don’t agree with it now, in the world where I’d be in charge (isn’t that a scary thought for most here) you’d need a warrant to do such a thing.

stands for decibels

October 18th, 2010
1:03 pm

so whats the bottom line difference in tailing a car.. and sticking a gps on a car?

You’ve got a reasonable chance of noticing some car tailing you. on public roads, especially.

Following you into private property, etc? Not so much.

And just so it’s clear, I’m just as PO’d at this administration pulling this crap as the prior one.

El Jefe

October 18th, 2010
1:05 pm

it comes down to this how can “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,” work, when any government flunky from any level of government can slap one of these onto your car for any reason?

I can just see someones ex-spouse(pick your agency – Land Management?), tracking/stalking the other with a GPS device. gee sounds like fun and games all over again.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:06 pm

sfd.. i know you would be.. :)

so in your opinion.. it boils down to a better chance for the criminal?

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:07 pm

So what makes the GPS tracking system different than being tailed? To my mind, it’s the installation of the device on another person’s property,

On another person’s property is very important. I think this tracking device was installed while this man’s car was in in driveway. So if you can afford to live in a gated community or have a locked garage then you’re not as likely to be targeted? I guess it shows who it will be used against doesn’t it?

Matti

October 18th, 2010
1:07 pm

carlosgvv,

I read 1984 in the 80’s and was unmoved. I read it again in 2004 and freaked. The practical manifestations of the all-knowing “big brother” differ somewhat between the book and our reality, but both the technology and motivating factors are all too real. Every time I hear someone say, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about,” I cringe.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:08 pm

el jefe.. it can be done now and is marketed to parents for checking on kids.. verzon has a service you can buy.. want to check on that cheating spouse? for $99 you can.. for $199.. real time on a map..

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:09 pm

ram.. can be done it a second.. most of these items are magnetic..

left wing

October 18th, 2010
1:13 pm

Hmmmm, let’s think about this. A federal agency installs a tracking device on a citizen’s car. The constitutionality of this will (no doubt) go to the John Roberts led supreme court, which is ruled by 5 conservatives. John Roberts always rules for the government over private citizens, for the police over private citizens.

Gee, I dunno. This seems like a tough call to make. I think the supreme court will rule for . . . . the FBI.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
1:13 pm

“Every time I hear someone say, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about,” I cringe.”

Me too, right after I think, what a dumb ass.

Paul

October 18th, 2010
1:14 pm

There are a lot of conflicting court decisions on this. It’s headed to the Supremes.

What’s a big difference? Police departments can monitor a huge number of people at relatively little cost. But to make the decision to do surveillance on just one person, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, is hugely expensive. So there was a careful calculation. Now, it’s easy to do, so why worry? Just slap the GPS on and go.

It’s kinda like with Tasers – the technology is cheap and it proliferates, encouraging police to take actions they would’ve thought twice about (using a baton, for instance) before Tasers came along.

BTW – one can buy cell phone jammers, even tho they’re illegal. I imagine some GPS jammers are available, too.

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:16 pm

No kidding union…you certainly have a wonderful grasp for the obvious. so whats the bottom line difference in tailing a car.. and sticking a gps on a car?….roaches and rats scatter when the light comes on.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:16 pm

paul.. they do.. and they dont always work.. same as wireless encryption.. you are secure between you and the point of communication.. nothing else..

Paul

October 18th, 2010
1:17 pm

left wing

“Gee, I dunno. This seems like a tough call to make. I think the supreme court will rule for . . . . the FBI.”

So what you’re saying is, the cons on the Court will support the position of Pres Obama and AG Holder.

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:18 pm

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
1:13 pm

“Every time I hear someone say, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about,” I cringe.”

Me too, right after I think, what a dumb ass.

I agree……just ask all the innocent people that have been released on death row the past few years.

Road Scholar

October 18th, 2010
1:18 pm

Presently they use your cell phone to track travel times.Do you know they can get the data off your car computer as to what was happening before a crash, or stop? They can tell if your selt belt was on, and how fast you ere going and if you stepped on your brakes. If you do crash, and they take your car to the dealer, you may notify the dealer that you don’t want that data provided to anyone.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:21 pm

ram.. so.. our law enforcement personnel are now roaches and rats?

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:21 pm

Paul October 18th, 2010 1:17 pm
So what you’re saying is, the cons on the Court will support the position of Pres Obama and AG Holder.

They’re aren’t conservatives on the Supreme Court…they are reactionaries….

Normal

October 18th, 2010
1:22 pm

FBI=KGB? Just askin’

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:23 pm

paul.. tried to post a link.. kind of interesting what you can buy off the web.. you can google it and see for yourself what you can buy to block what..

T

October 18th, 2010
1:24 pm

Big Brother is watching.

Paul

October 18th, 2010
1:24 pm

Ramguy

Okay, so what some here are saying is, if they uphold Obama’s and Holder’s position, that Obama and Holder are reactionaries.

Ain’t politics fun?

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:25 pm

Union when they do things like this…yes they are rats and roaches……quite a few of them are out there as matter of fact…do you think all the LEO’s are just like the guys in Adam 12?

Ramguy

October 18th, 2010
1:26 pm

Paul…..it would certainly be a reactionary position…no matter if it’s Obama or Dick Nixon.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:28 pm

ram.. lmao.. when they do thinks like what? utilize the tools available to them? follow orders? save lives? risk their lives? die?

JohnnyReb

October 18th, 2010
1:28 pm

Another rare case of common ground.

Moderate Line

October 18th, 2010
1:32 pm

So what makes the GPS tracking system different than being tailed? To my mind, it’s the installation of the device on another person’s property, without their permission and knowledge and without having to justify to a court why the intrusion is necessary. That seems a blatant violation of the right to privacy and the expectation of privacy.
++++++++++++++++
Instead of arguing over whether it violates some ones rights it would seem better to pass a law which would require a warrant. Seems such a simple issue to resolve.

Paul

October 18th, 2010
1:32 pm

Ramguy

“no matter if it’s Obama or Dick Nixon.”

A few of our uberleft friends’ heads exploded at that. I’d appreciate it if you’d cut that out. They’re nice to chat with –

El Jefe

October 18th, 2010
1:36 pm

One of the real problems with a GPS tracking unit – if done by the government, is that anyplace the car goes – regardless on who is driving – the vehicles movements are recorded. There is no public or private curtain separating the two.

While a cheated on spouse might want to track the cheater, they do have, usually, shared ownership of the vehicle. They also have a vested interest – and a serious lack of trust – in the other person.

This is fine – but when big brother – or in this case big brother and big sister – get involved, it becomes unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights protects us, the people, from intrusion by the federal government.

States may have their own rules and processes for using a GPS, but they usually follow the federal guidelines.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:36 pm

ok.. so its decided.. we need another law.. nice call moderate..

so.. moving on.. jay..can we talk about the amt now?

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
1:39 pm

I posted this link last night during a conversation about this.

https://ssd.eff.org/your-computer/govt/privacy

When it goes to the court, it will come down to privacy. The plaintiff will have to prove that there is a Reasonable Expectation of Privacy (REP)”on” the vehicle. Inside of the vehicle, REP has already been established by the courts. That’s why permission or a warrant is needed to search a vehicle. At the same time, there is no REP outside of the vehicle. No warrant or permission is needed to run a k-9 outside a vehicle if controlled substances are suspected to be inside. REP is also pretty much non-existent in public areas. If the car is being driven on public roads, there is no REP there.

As the transmitter is not “recording” anything, there is no violation of privacy because you are not eavesdropping on conversations or recording video. The GPS unit does not record anything because is only transmitting positions.

It will be interesting to see how the case ends up. From a professional standpoint, I can see it going either way, with it being determined to be legal based on precedence.

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
1:41 pm

El Jefe

A GPS unit “transmits” a signal. It does not record anything. Without a tracking program, you would not have a trail to follow.

StJ

October 18th, 2010
1:41 pm

I see Jay is all about recycling. Didn’t Bob Barr write the same column (albeit with a bunch less copy and paste) a couple months ago?

But hey, Obama’s all for warrantless surveillance, so it must be good for “the people”. But let’s make sure the military currently deployed overseas don’t get the right to vote (seeing as how they’re defending freedom and all that).

This is the administration “progressives” voted for. Has enough “progress” been made?

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:45 pm

soco.. depends on which one you use.. one type records the data then is retrieved on a laptop or pc.. the other type “reports” where it is..

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
1:46 pm

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
1:46 pm

Union

I imagine since it was installed and left on the car, it was a transmit only.

Union

October 18th, 2010
1:51 pm

soco.. thats the downside to the location record and read later version.. you have to be able to get your hands back on it.. well.. downside if youre the one that wants to know whats on it.. the upside of this is.. you can buy a gps jammer online for @ $130.. plugs right into the cig lighter.. someone is gonna be making money.

Mick

October 18th, 2010
1:52 pm

I guess because we live in a capitalist free market society it won’t be long before someone will be selling a jamming device for five payments of $19.99 only, and if you act quickly we’ll send you two, thats two transmittal jamming device for one low price………..

larry

October 18th, 2010
1:59 pm

” How come i feel like , someones watching meeeeeeeeeeee”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY&ob=av2e

Jefferson

October 18th, 2010
2:00 pm

Cops need help, all they think about is donuts.

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
2:04 pm

Union,

Ok, so let me get this straight — are you texting while driving…a plane?

Union

October 18th, 2010
2:07 pm

bosch.. just riding in it…. im the guy on the plane that is terrified of heights. so i get a window seat just so i can close the blinds. we would not want to put me in a situation where i had to look out. i refuse to stay at any hotel that has a window type elevator.. ie marquis in atl..

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:07 pm

All new Russian cars could come equipped with Moscow’s GLONASS satellite navigation system, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday, with a tax to be levied on the rival GPS system.–April 2010

Last I heard, our government still owns 61% of General Motors. How many cars have come off the assembly line since the government took over. What’s been installed without our knowledge.

Hmmmmmmmm, makes ‘ya wonder don’t it?

Union

October 18th, 2010
2:08 pm

for those of you that travel.. on a plane.. sometimes you can get in-flight wireless for half price.. if you use your phone instead of a laptop..

Bosch

October 18th, 2010
2:09 pm

“Hmmmmmmmm, makes ‘ya wonder don’t it?”

No. I don’t get into conspiracy theories.

josef nix

October 18th, 2010
2:09 pm

So, all of the sudden we’re getting into a dither about GPS? This is nothing more than application of the current technology to what has been going on for a long, long, time in this country (and many others). The McCarthy years are not that far back, folks. Anybody who has the vaguest memory of the 1960s will recall just how much a part of our conversations at that time had to do with censoring what we said where because of Big Brother. J’Edgar’s lot never did go out of bidness and never will. Obama and his lot are just as much a part of all this as any other…hell, at least under J’Edgar and Company we still had habeas corpus…

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:09 pm

Bosch:

I was joking.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
2:10 pm

“No warrant or permission is needed to run a k-9 outside a vehicle if controlled substances are suspected to be inside. ”

right…but the canine does not remain stuck to your vehicle on the off-chance you’ll stop somewhere and buy some illegal substance.

Apporpos cheating spouses. I read a story a few months ago (can’t remember where) about a woman whose mechanic found something odd stuck to HER vehicle, but he was a little more on the ball and knew it was a GPS tracking device. Since it was a very simple one, just stuck on with magnets, he took it off and gave it to her. SHE took it and stuck under her preacher’s car!

getalife

October 18th, 2010
2:11 pm

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:11 pm

Who knows…the green machine in Washington may be trying to force all of us onto public transportation or bicycles.

Hmmmmmmm

Ragnar Danneskjöld

October 18th, 2010
2:12 pm

Bravo, Bookman. Rarely will I agree with you, but any time you take the same side as Alex Kozinski you will find me in your corner.

Guy Incognito

October 18th, 2010
2:13 pm

You can defeat the GPS transponder by having your car crushed in a salvage yard. Odd Job did it in Goldfinger so it must be true

Matti

October 18th, 2010
2:13 pm

I have the utmost respect for the officers of the law who put themselves between us and the dangerous elements of our community, at great personal risk, in hot, ugly, uncomfortable clothes, for little pay and even less appreciation. They have my gratitude!

BUT…. as is the case with the military, their job demands a mindset that is not as objective as a private citizen’s mind needs to be. We need checks and balances on those in uniforms carrying guns, and we need those checks and balances to be more than empty words.

Mick

October 18th, 2010
2:14 pm

Doggone/GA @ 2:10

That’s appropos.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
2:15 pm

“That’s appropos.”

Not very fluent in tyop I see.

Matti

October 18th, 2010
2:18 pm

jo nix,

“Anybody who has the vaguest memory of the 1960s..”

I vaguely remember staying up late to watch LaughIn and deciding when I grew up I was going to get me some of those awesome boots and become a “go-go dancer.” Sadly, I never realized that dream.

Will Robinson

October 18th, 2010
2:18 pm

Can you hear me now? Where am I. I seem to be lost but I do so like my space.

Jimmy62

October 18th, 2010
2:20 pm

It’s the same kind of mindset that says it’s ok for the government to force us to buy a product from a private company, and more specifically, only from private companies the government has approved of (yes, I am referring to health insurance).

I don’t know why you are surprised, Jay. You fought so hard to make it so the government can do whatever it wants without regards to Constitutional restrictions, it should surprise you that they took that as license to continue doing whatever they want. You can’t have it both ways, either the government is restricted in it’s power and cannot force us to buy health insurance, or are they are not, and they can put GPS units on our cars without warrants. This is a door you and the left opened, now it’s going to be awful hard to shut. But please don’t act like you had nothing to do with this, you argued and fought for the government to be able to go beyond the bounds of the Constitution, this is a result of that.

Union

October 18th, 2010
2:20 pm

“Can gov’t install GPS device on your car without a warrant?” this has already been answered.. yes they can.. as in they have the ability to do so.. this topic would have been better titled “should the gov’t install GPS device on your car without a warrant?”

so.. now can we talk about amt?

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:22 pm

The Israeli government targets individuals in cars all the time. How do they do that without GPS? Is it attached to the cars?

Logical Dude

October 18th, 2010
2:25 pm

I think some people are missing the point:
“What’s so bad about tracking criminals?” Well you see, it’s not about criminals, it’s about you and me. If they had enough evidence to call you a criminal, they could easily get a warrant. But THEY don’t want to do that. They want to track as many people as they can in order to see who they can catch doing something “wrong”. Unfortunately, I see where this is going. @@ has half of it right when Russia is calling for satellite systems in all cars. It’s also going to happen here. Government already is watching all OnStar cars that they want to, all those premium cars Nav systems they can track. . . without warrant! If they can get away with putting a device on a car, what makes you think they’re thinking twice about checking GPS systems that are already there? They can go into OnStar or LoJack and say “Give us this information, we don’t need a warrant.”

Not because you’re a criminal, but because you may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

md

October 18th, 2010
2:25 pm

“I guess because we live in a capitalist free market society it won’t be long before someone will be selling a jamming device for five payments of $19.99 only, and if you act quickly we’ll send you two, thats two transmittal jamming device for one low price………..”

And you’ll kick yourself when the guy/gal makes it big……………

josef nix

October 18th, 2010
2:27 pm

matti

I have lots of memories from that time and place, some fun and some not so fun, but I did learn one thing, don’t ever assume that what you say or do is not being watched no matter how insignificant and uninvolved you think you are…

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:27 pm

Alex Kozinski was appointed by President Reagan.

Just so everyone knows.

Union

October 18th, 2010
2:30 pm

healthcare reform.. pushed for by obama and the dems.. will do more for privacy rights invasions.. than sticking a gps on your car ever did.. how long you think it going to be before you put off going to the dr because you had a little recreational something and its required to be reported?

md

October 18th, 2010
2:33 pm

“healthcare reform.. pushed for by obama and the dems.. will do more for privacy rights invasions.. than sticking a gps on your car ever did..”

And may be headed to the same place this gps stuff is headed…..to the Supremes.

Where there is a possibility of killing the whole bill. All the Supremes would have to do is tell Congress to re-write the bill, and if Nov goes as it seems to be going, the votes to pass a revised bill will no longer be there.

Mick

October 18th, 2010
2:34 pm

md

**And you’ll kick yourself when the guy/gal makes it big……………**

Nah….more power to em…its not something that I would have a passion for, besides it takes money to make money and the flow is not overwhelming these days, if you know what I mean.

Doggone/GA

October 18th, 2010
2:36 pm

“besides it takes money to make money”

and anyway, if you’re not doing anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about…right? ;-)

josef nix

October 18th, 2010
2:37 pm

The key to Jay’s question lies in the headline… “Can the government…”
The government can, and pretty much does, do what it d*mned well wants to…

Union

October 18th, 2010
2:37 pm

im using google adwords to setup links to gps jamming companies.. that way i can make some change.. thanks jay!

@@

October 18th, 2010
2:37 pm

Google Earth isn’t funny anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kswJuKfYtI

Let’s all give this administration the finger.

Southern Comfort

October 18th, 2010
2:40 pm

For a subscriber service like On Star, the government would likely have to get a warrant to track cars that way. Either that, or they would have to get permission from GM to track them. That’s not something that can easily be tracked without proprietary software or systems.

right…but the canine does not remain stuck to your vehicle on the off-chance you’ll stop somewhere and buy some illegal substance.

True, but there is no legal precedent that extends REP beyond the interior of the car. REP is covered inside the car and any interior compartments. It would be hard to express REP outside a vehicle because there is no exterior part of the car that could be considered private.

Mick

October 18th, 2010
2:40 pm

@@

Key lime pie….thats the answer…key lime pie.