Streetcar money breaks Atlanta transit losing streak
Source: City of Atlanta
After repeated setbacks, metro Atlanta has finally managed to win federal support and funding for a transit project. According to U.S. Rep. John Lewis, federal officials have agreed to commit $47 million to help build a east-west streetcar line connecting the Georgia World Congress Center, the Georgia Aquarium, Centennial Olympic Park, Georgia State University and the Martin Luther King Jr. Historic District.
The announcement is an important coup for the city and its mayor, Kasim Reed. However, it also represents an obligation to the larger metro region. Federal officials will be watching closely to see whether the city follows through on its part of the deal. City officials have already identified $16 million in funds for capital construction, leaving the project still $9 million short.
Failure to come through with that funding would bode poorly for the far larger transit requests that the metro region will be making to the federal government in years to come, from the Beltline to commuter rail and light rail.
In terms of transportation and economic development, though, the line in question makes a lot of sense, linking some of the city’s major tourist attractions and its major downtown hotel district. As the city’s application noted, it will also “reconnect the eastern and western sections of Downtown Atlanta, which were effectively separated by the construction of Interstate 75/85 in the mid 1950s.”
I’m a lot less certain about other proposed pieces of the proposed streetcar system, such as the north-south line up Peachtree Street. That strikes me more like an amenity than a transportation option, particularly with the MARTA line already running beneath Peachtree for much of its length. But of course, that perception could change if the east-west line proves a major success.
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113 comments Add your comment
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
I dunno — for some reason, when I saw this, I just thought “Streetcar Named Desire” — and not too much else.
RW-(the original)
October 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
Maybe I’m too disconnected from day to day life in downtown Atlanta but I can’t see this coming anywhere near paying for itself in ridership. It seems to cater almost entirely to tourist traffic.
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
Hehehehe! Firsties! Take THAT Paul!
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
SUPERTRAINS!
or, a start, anyway.
BlahBlahBlah
October 15th, 2010
2:37 pm
Boondoggle.
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2010
2:41 pm
I was going to say “this is where they start going on about how ‘ridership won’t possibly bear all the costs of such a venture’, as if that were the point of mass transit in any civilized nation I’ve visited”, but Blah and RW seem to have beaten me to the punch.
Jason
October 15th, 2010
2:42 pm
Google: Portland Pearl District Street Car. This part of Downtown Atlanta and Portland’s Pearl District pre-street car are very similar so it will give you an idea of what to expect the results to be.
N
October 15th, 2010
2:43 pm
Good news. Make a fair proposal with local money in the game and we win a grant. Hopefully this will be a model for the beltline and other bids for federal grants.
RW-(the original)
October 15th, 2010
2:43 pm
stands,
How does this extremely limited loop between tourist attractions qualify as a legitimate mass transit effort?
Haywood Jablome
October 15th, 2010
2:44 pm
That strikes me more like an amenity than a transportation option, particularly with the MARTA line already running beneath Peachtree for much of its length.
Public transportation an amenity? Yeah, the bus is just like a swimming pool or a lounge, expect more glamorous. And have you ever tried catching the MARTA line from Peachtree and Roswell or South Buckhead or these desolate neighborhoods that Bookie describes as having a MARTA line already running beneath?
N
October 15th, 2010
2:50 pm
Also great news for continued development of downtown into a destination for people. This along with the college FB HOF and other new developments going in around the park should be great.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
2:51 pm
Congrats, Atlanta.
Any Republican candidates denounce Atlanta for taking federal dollars and engaging in a socialist enterprise, hmmmm?
Bosch
“Hehehehe! Firsties! Take THAT Paul!”
I was gonna say ’some of us have to work’ but in reality, I was making what I hope will be a killer lasagne.
Either way – thbpppptttt!!!!!!
Peadawg
October 15th, 2010
2:52 pm
“This along with the college FB HOF and other new developments going in around the park should be great.”
Yes. More traffic is just what Atlanta needs!
Paul
October 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
Bosch
Didja hear? Sen Harry Reid’s buddies with Pres Bush! And he admires Justice Scalia!
I love election season.
Oh, and First Lady Obama asked Candidate Christine O’Donnell if she knew any incantations to help keep the spirits clean. All in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation, of course.
(’spirit’ of bipartisanship… get it? Well, didja??)
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
How does this extremely limited loop between tourist attractions qualify as a legitimate mass transit effort?
I’ll be honest, I can’t really tell much about this particular project based on the linked story (rubber wheels? riding on rails? it actually didn’t say, did it?) and being that I’m not that familiar with that neck of the woods (not down there much myself) if you say it’s going to be too limited to be of much use to many people, I’ll take your word for it.
But you do have to start somewhere.
Jay
October 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
RW, there’s no expectation that fares will cover the cost of this project. And you’re right: it’s as much if not more of an economic development project as it is a transit project. The downtown hotels and the convention authority have been telling us for years that one of the biggest complaints from visitors is the difficulty of getting to and from these various sites. And as the earlier poster noted, streetcars in other cities have boosted property values and brought in a lot of additional investment. That’s the plan here as well.
Something else I’d like to note, in that same vein: The DOT’s project to convert the I-85 HOV lane to a Lexus toll lane also isn’t expected to pay for itself. Even though they’re taking an existing lane of asphalt that we already paid for, the revenue from the tolls won’t be enough to pay for the cost of the tolling infrastructure.
Yet somehow we don’t hear those same kind of complaints.
joe matarotz
October 15th, 2010
2:55 pm
Pardon the stupid question, but will this route actually serve enough people to make it profitable? I smell a boondoggle.
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
2:56 pm
Paul,
Killer lasagna eh? YUM!!! Dinner at Paul’s peeps! I have to say I make smashingly good lasagna — me recipe has even been featured in a cookbook. The trick is a good handful of fennel seeds. Yeah, some of us have it well, ya’ know.
To me, people labor too much over lasagna when it really doesn’t have to be all that — and after I discovered Barilla no-cook noodles — well, let’s just say it changed my life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But as to the topic, yeah, if Reed doesn’t come through on his end of the bargain, you can pretty much kiss any future federal funds g-bye.
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2010
2:58 pm
will this route actually serve enough people to make it profitable?
jeez… should we start taking bets on how many are going to Go There?
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:00 pm
Jay
Dallas experienced quite a surprise when it put mass transit stops in areas that people thought there shouldn’t be a stop (the local councilmembers lobbied to get them). Wasn’t too long before apartment buildings, restaurants and all kinds of shops began popping up. The blighted areas became much more desirable. Funny thing, other councilmen began lobbying for stops in their areas, too.
barking frog
October 15th, 2010
3:00 pm
Do the panhandlers get lifetime passes and reserved seats?
Will the muggers appreciate the delivery system?
Wouldn’t a fleet of horsedrawn carriages be better,
or would the horse deposits compete with that being
tossed around under the gold dome?
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
3:00 pm
Paul,
Yeah I heard! I love a good clean spirit — I’m partial to vanilla and jasmine smells (having a 14 year old daughter, I mean, yeah, I’ll admit it — when you’re out of man-poo in the shower and that’s all you got to clean your bits and pieces — that stuff smells kind of good!).
And as to Reid, yeah, I got friends who we are like night and day — it’s possible. I really don’t know where that Scalia thing came from though. I think the guys a douche and can’t think that anyone of the Reid variety would think otherwise, but yeah, like you said, it is election year and all the weirdos come out.
AngryRedMarsWoman
October 15th, 2010
3:01 pm
“The downtown hotels and the convention authority have been telling us for years that one of the biggest complaints from visitors is the difficulty of getting to and from these various sites.”
Yep. And the Braves are a huge draw for visitors and this wonderful streetcar will take you right down to….ohhhh….guess not.
stands for decibels
October 15th, 2010
3:01 pm
Suggest Atlanta adopt freely from this promotional video.
(especially that funky music.)
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
3:02 pm
“Do the panhandlers get lifetime passes and reserved seats?
Will the muggers appreciate the delivery system?”
I’m never surprised by the old “but it’ll attract THOSE people” argument. Jesus Christ, people, Atlanta is like the only major city in the known universe that has a sucky mass transit system — and y’all just wanna keep it suckier. I simply do not get that logic.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:02 pm
Bosch
Fennel, eh? I used Italian sausage for the meat – the sweet kind had fennel, so I opted for a mix of sweet (basil) and hot. Might have to give the sweet a try.
And yeah, this time I looked at a couple of recipes and thought “yeah! more cheese!!!” and started adding according to the ‘this just feels right’ school of cooking.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:03 pm
Bosch – make that a mix of MILD (basil) and hot.
jt
October 15th, 2010
3:04 pm
The Federal Government HAS no money.
RW-(the original)
October 15th, 2010
3:04 pm
Damn, Bosch, you sure must have said a lot in that first comment since my comment was second and I’m being lectured about what the earlier poster said.
Jay B,
I don’t doubt that the hotels and attractions made that complaint and I would rather they applied for a permit to jointly run their own street car project.
I also think it’s a horrific idea to set up a toll structure that is going to cost the taxpayers money. Happy?
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
3:06 pm
Paul,
“and started adding according to the ‘this just feels right’ school of cooking.”
That is the basis of the Bosch World of Cooking — I’m like mad scientist in the kitchen. I use recipes for a guideline (except for baked goods).
Oh, now my world is screaming for something with tomato-meat goodness and mounds of gooey cheese (as Bosch gets all glary eyed with yearning and anticipation).
AngryRedMarsWoman
October 15th, 2010
3:07 pm
I want to know what happened to beaming. Weren’t we promised that by the 21st century we would be able to just beam ourselves wherever we wanted to go? I got the darn “communicator” (cell phone), but what happened to beaming — I would trade the former for the latter. Screw your streetcars and toll lanes….get with the beaming me up and down and over there already.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:14 pm
Bosch
If I need clean spirits, I find the best way is to just make sure the cap stays on the bottle. Or drink it with ice. Water doesn’t count as a contaminant, like Coke.
In all fairness, I think the Scalia remark was in response to ‘admire.’ I can see anyone being honest citing Scalia. Or Roberts. Their legal minds are first-rate. But…. I don’t always like their conclusions. But the minds are sharp.
RW-(the original)
October 15th, 2010
3:15 pm
Paul & Bosch,
Did you happen to see Big Bang Theory last night? They had Katee Sackhoff and George Takei being conjured up as kind of a good fantasy/bad fantasy routine.
Shawny
October 15th, 2010
3:18 pm
Why would we want to link the major tourist attractions? Who goes into the city, goes to the aquarium, then goes to GA state or the congress center? Nobody.
I would like to see the marketing surveys that show the true need for such a route. Sounds like another boondoggle.
We do need true transit solutions, but this one sounds like a waste.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:20 pm
RW-(the original)
You’re the second one to cite that show to me. I gotta tune in.
BOSCH!!!! Caprica’s restarted!!!
yep
October 15th, 2010
3:23 pm
You’d think they would go the extra few blocks and connect it to the Beltline… right? No, of course not.
Gale
October 15th, 2010
3:26 pm
The few times I’ve been to downtown Atlanta, it was the difficulty in getting from place to place that delayed my next visit. I would like to see a Marta stop closer to a street car stop. Still, it would seriously reduce the walking I did between the places I wanted to visit. Maybe I would even visit those places more often.
Paul
October 15th, 2010
3:27 pm
“connect it to the Beltline”
I heard some Atlantans were kinda big, but…. wow…..
RW-(the original)
October 15th, 2010
3:32 pm
I think Obama has just given up on his Presidency. He says the single best decision he’s made to date is naming Biden his running mate.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 15th, 2010
3:43 pm
I don’t live there, so I guess it’s none of my business, but I don’t see a whole lot of people riding this thing. And I doubt it will do anything to relieve traffic.
BlahBlahBlah
October 15th, 2010
3:47 pm
Want to guarantee convention and visitor ridership? Put a stop right in front of the Cheetah.
Davey Boy Smith
October 15th, 2010
3:48 pm
I wonder what member of the Ghetto Mafia will steal this money first? What a crock. 5 years from now on, whatever incarnation of the AJC will be doing a story about what happened to the $47 million that Atlanta was given in 2010.
Anyone who thinks this money will fund anything but the corrupt and incompetent idiots who run Atlanta can buy the piece of ocean front property that I have for sale in Macon.
BlahBlahBlah
October 15th, 2010
3:50 pm
And another stop at Magic City, for diversity’s sake.
Southern Comfort
October 15th, 2010
3:59 pm
HD & others
You’d be surprised at how many foreign visitors would probably ride those streetcars. There’s conventions here almost every week or so. There’s people who come to the US to tour the South. Why not try to make Atlanta one of those destinations everybody wants to see instead of just a transit stop to somewhere else?
Scout
October 15th, 2010
4:00 pm
Be sure and factor in enough law enforcement security ………. or it will be known as the “Perp Railroad” !
Scout
October 15th, 2010
4:02 pm
Shawny :
I hear you. It should at least go to the Varsity.
Davey Boy Smith
October 15th, 2010
4:03 pm
That’s awesome Southern Comfort, but the problems is that this project will never actually happen, and if it does, it will just be a half-assed incarnation of what was originally planned. The incompetent and corrupt buffoons who run the City have already been figuring out how to divvy up the money and give the contracts to HJ Russell and the rest of his family.
Southern Comfort
October 15th, 2010
4:07 pm
Davey Boy Smith
If you know so much about HJ Russell, you would know that he does residential construction and real estate development. I don’t think his company lays railroad tracks or does streetcars. Instead of worrying about worst case scenario, why not use that energy to try to ensure best outcome instead?
Bosch
October 15th, 2010
4:09 pm
RW,
Starbuck? Are you serious? I gotta see that — do they have that show on Hulu or something?
Starbuck (sigh…..)
Paul,
“BOSCH!!!! Caprica’s restarted!!!”
Yeah! I know! I watched the first episode though of the new season and had to turn it — it’s really not the show to watch when your mom’s just died, and I wasn’t in too good a mood that night, so I’ll catch up and we can start bugging the crap out of posters again with “Caprica” talk like the good ol’ days. Who knows, maybe we’ll recruit more fans!
But, here’s a question: OK, so the five final models from BG, like they were actually alive like thousands of years before in the context of the show, right? And Boomer and Helo’s daughter, well, she became Mitochondrial Eve, right? So, how is it going to work out with Graystone and Adama’s daughter being Cylons — and are they going to be models, and if the Cylons were invented 60 years prior — well, what’s all that with the Final Five from BG living like thousands of years prior.
I’m confused. I know, shocking, but I am — or are they gonna get to all that.
Davey Boy Smith
October 15th, 2010
4:12 pm
Ha, Southern Comfort, you and I both know that they will have a “Transportation Construction” arm of the business just in time to submit bids for the project. They will come in about 35% higher than the low bid, with about 5 others also lower, yet they will magically secure the bid because of their “transportation construction expertise.”
I would love to to think about the idea of a “best-case” scenario, but have seen so much bumbling crap in my time in Atlanta to know that this will NEVER work out like it should.
It’s a sad reality, but this city is falling further and further behind every day because of the incompetent cronyism. I have really like Reed’s picks for leadership positions so far, but there is so much endemic corruption and ineptitude at all levels of city, county and regional governing bodies, I just cannot imagine anything good ever getting done the right way.
Hopefully this project will prove me wrong, but I will not believe it until I see it.