Hillary as veep? A possibility, but still unlikely

While making the rounds to peddle his new book, Bob Woodward suggests that Democrats are mulling a switcheroo between Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, with Clinton becoming the party’s nominee for vice president in 2012 and Biden becoming secretary of state.

“It’s on the table,” veteran Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward told CNN’s John King in an interview Tuesday on John King, USA. “Some of Hillary Clinton’s advisers see it as a real possibility in 2012.”

“President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the [2008] primaries and, so they switch jobs, not out of the question, and the other interesting question is, Hillary Clinton could run in her own right in 2016 and be younger than Ronald Reagan when he was elected president….”

“Now you talk to Hillary Clinton or her advisers and they say ‘no, no there’s not a political consideration here,’” Woodward continued. “Of course the answer is, you point out to them that her clout around the world when she goes to Europe, Asia, anywhere is in part, not just because she’s Secretary of State or because she was married to President Clinton, that people see a potential future president in her.”

The latest politico to predict an Obama-Clinton ticket in 2012 was former Bush Chief of Staff Andy Card, who, during an interview with CNN, said the notion doesn’t surprise him.

“That would shake things up,” said Card.

I think such a step is plausible — not likely, but plausible. Biden, however, has enough standing with the party and with Obama to ensure that he would have the final word in such a switch. In other words, he’d have to agree to it, and maybe he would. He was, after all, former chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and has a deep interest in international affairs. After four years as vice president, a switch to the State Department might have real appeal to him.

Discussing such a topic inevitably stirs talk of a much more implausible scenario — Hillary replacing Obama himself at the top of the Democratic ticket. And that ain’t gonna happen. With an approval rating of roughly 45 percent, Obama is well ahead of where Ronald Reagan was at this point in his presidency, and if Republicans gain control of Congress this fall, Obama’s approval rating is likely to soar. In addition, any effort by Hillary or anyone else to push Obama out of the top spot would destroy the Democratic Party and render the party’s 2012 presidential nomination a prize not worth the winning, and everyone involved knows that.

It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists. The Clintons haven’t changed; all that’s changed is that the GOP has decided to aim its powerful hate-generating machinery at another, more important target for a while.

102 comments Add your comment

Scout

October 6th, 2010
8:32 am

Jay:

Headline: “Mishap interrupts Obama speech The president gets big laughs after his remarks are upstaged by a prop malfunction. ‘Whoops…was that my…?”

Did you see the video of Obama’s recent speech where the Presidential Seal fell from the lectern?

Prophetic?

P.S. Some poor military person from the White House Communications Agency (WHCA) will be transferred to Afghanistan.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
8:36 am

Foolish speculation about Ms. Clinton has been a staple of the RW echo chamber for ages. I can recall AM talk radio buzzing with those who were claiming, in 1992 (!), Hillary was going to divorce Bill the moment he left the White House.

Which they were soooo sure was gonna be 1.20.1997, if not earlier.

Call it like it is

October 6th, 2010
8:42 am

Oh I wouldnt be shocked at all. VP’s throughout history have been nothing but another source for voter support. If Obama thinks the next election is in trouble and he needs the votes he would dump Biden to the corner in a heartbeat. Not sure but I think FDR went through 3 of them. And putting Hillary in line for the next election, yeh I’m sure she would pass that up. That woman loves power and will do what it takes to make sure she stays in the lime light.

Nice Guy

October 6th, 2010
8:43 am

Jay – “It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists.”

Well, I guess the Oval Office has a way of dividing people. Now that Bill & Hillary aren’t making policy that affect us to the extent they were in the 90’s, the Repub/Clinton relationship shouldn’t be all that amusing.

“all that’s changed is that the GOP has decided to aim its powerful hate-generating machinery at another, more important target for a while.”

More important indeed. But please don’t act like the Left doesn’t have thier hate-generating machine greased and firing on all cylinders right now.

TaxPayer

October 6th, 2010
8:44 am

That would actually be a clever move. It would position Hillary to run for president after Obama’s eight years are up.

Scout

October 6th, 2010
8:45 am

“It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists.”

Two points:

1) Compared to socialist/marxist Obama that’s true.

2) President Kennedy was more conservative than most Republicans today.

It’s the old “Frog in the Kettle” analogy. We just don’t realize what is happening to this Republic.

Southern Comfort

October 6th, 2010
8:47 am

VP’s throughout history have been nothing but another source for voter support.

I think Cheney would be the exception to the rule on that one. Just sayin…

On topic, for all we know, a kangaroo could run as Veep with Obama. I won’t speculate on ifs, because if I had a few hundred millions in the bank, I wouldn’t be typing this right now. :) I’ll just wait until things line up in late 2011 early 2012 before I make judgement.

Peadawg

October 6th, 2010
8:47 am

“President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees…”

…and a miracle.

“It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats”

Even Bill admitted he was wrong and is now running the hell away from Obamacare.

Normal

October 6th, 2010
8:49 am

From below,
I don’t care what you say, but macaroni and cheese is a vegetable in the South!
———————-
I think Hillary will make another run at President against Obama. She will probably win too.

Actually, Ignorance is a excuse

October 6th, 2010
8:49 am

I'm not a witch

October 6th, 2010
8:52 am

“It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists. The Clintons haven’t changed; all that’s changed is that the GOP has decided to aim its powerful hate-generating machinery at another, more important target for a while.”

Amusing indeed. I know I’m loving it.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!

Gale

October 6th, 2010
8:52 am

Seniority wins chairman spots in Congress. I wouldn’t use that to make points for Biden as SoS. The media seems to love the man’s verbal blunders. Seems like a poor choice to me. Nor do I see Hillary Clinton accepting a VP slot.

jm

October 6th, 2010
8:54 am

Jay

“It’s also downright amusing to see Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists.”

Or one could plausibly argue that our country here-to-fore has continued to move left, so with the benefit of a rearview mirror, yes, Bill and Hillary appear moderate in comparison. But yes, it is a nice trick to appear “moderate” by complimenting other “moderates” like Bill and Hillary, while attacking the current President. That said, I do think Obama is to the left of Bill and Hillary.

Bosch

October 6th, 2010
8:56 am

“President Kennedy was more conservative than most Republicans today.”

OMG, I just spit breakfast burrito all over my screen.

Actually, Ignorance is a excuse

October 6th, 2010
8:58 am

I am not a writer. I’m you.

I’m not a reader. I’m you.

Bosch

October 6th, 2010
8:58 am

I never really got why Biden in the first place — except that may Hills wanted the Sec. of State gig. I mean with that job, you actually do things.

jm

October 6th, 2010
8:58 am

Normal, you’re crazy.

Bosch

October 6th, 2010
8:59 am

Normal!

“I don’t care what you say, but macaroni and cheese is a vegetable in the South!”

:-)

jm

October 6th, 2010
8:59 am

Normal, I should rephrase. Normal, you’re Not Normal.

Actually, Ignorance is a excuse

October 6th, 2010
8:59 am

Spit burrito:

Thank you, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Actually, Ignorance is a excuse

October 6th, 2010
9:00 am

Normal is Andy, he’ not you.

AmVet

October 6th, 2010
9:01 am

The Rovian slime machine had a sleazy good time with The Uppity Muslim sans Birth Certificate back in 2008. Of course, it didn’t help them much, as we were just ending up that debacle called the Bush Administration, aka the Reign of Error, and the nation was repulsed by neo-con ineptitude, corruption and deadliness.

But gawd only knows what pathetic vitriol they would have dredged up had “that woman” been the nominee. We would have seen some masterful misogyny, you betcha.

Dirty politics at the highest levels has been around for a long time, but with the ascension of that serial philanderer and lying sack of ____, Newt, it has dropped to new depths.

So now we have cretins like Joe Wilson and Randy Neugebauer acting like petulant 12 year olds in the most hallowed of settings of government. Disgraceful…

saywhat?

October 6th, 2010
9:01 am

If Secretary of State Clinton were to show up on the ballot as candidate Clinton, have no fears Jay, she would once again morph into the most radical, far left, socialist, marxist, fascist, feminazi, bringer of doom to all of whats great about America. Just watch Fox news and they will tell you all about it.

Scout, you are deluded. The country has moved so far right the past 30 years as to be almost a different place. Reagan was more Liberal than any current Republican member in Congress.Nixon was more liberal than half the Democrats currently in Congress. Obama is no more socialist/marxist than is a small soap dish.Obama is, and Clinton was, about as close to centrist as possible. The extreme far right has become accepted on the right as mainstream, totally warping the view of those who inhabit it as to where the center is.

saywhat?

October 6th, 2010
9:04 am

I should clarify, the country has moved far right POLITICALLY, although it has been moving left SOCIALLY.

Normal

October 6th, 2010
9:05 am

The vice-presidency of the United States is “not being worth a bucket of warm pi$$”.

John Nance Garner, Texas Congressman and Vice-President.
———————————-

But jm, I’m “the Norm”, everyone wants to be like me… :D

Southern Comfort

October 6th, 2010
9:06 am

Or one could plausibly argue that our country here-to-fore has continued to move left,

That perception is easy to explain. Due to the earth being a round planet, if you move too far right, you appear on the left horizon. Unless you knew ahead of time that the person actually was traveling to the right, it would appear that the person is actually on the left.

Southern Comfort

October 6th, 2010
9:07 am

Normal

Amen on the mac and cheese!!! And in contrary to what everyone else says, you’re completely normal to me. :)

Jimmy62

October 6th, 2010
9:09 am

I would say it’s not so much the GOP changing its tune on the Clinton’s, but that the rest of the Democratic Party has moved further left, in rhetoric if not results. 8 years of hyperpartisan Bush bashing plus a couple of years of hyperpartisan Obama loving tends to do that.

Hillary 2012

October 6th, 2010
9:10 am

The nation could rally behind Hillary. The female-prez precedence was set when Obama spent his first year complaining that previous occupant left the seat up in the executive washroom. What happened, did he fall in?

This oldest and most common source of marital dischord is the reason we will be a matriarchal republic in 2013. Monica Lewinski deserves her role in this transformation. (not to revive a well-covered thread)

That bring up the spectre: what if Monica was the president, and Bill was the intern. Could our nation withstand such an event?

Where does the cuban cigar fit in that nightmare scenario? We have to prepare for the unexpected, people.

If not, we’re finished.

and we thought our only problem was with witches in our congress.

michelle for vp

October 6th, 2010
9:10 am

OMG!

I just read that 9:01 and spit liver and onions all over my monitor!

larry

October 6th, 2010
9:13 am

the left is right and the right is wrong.

@@

October 6th, 2010
9:13 am

“President Obama needs some of the women, Latinos, retirees that she did so well with during the [2008] primaries…”

We know this administration thinks retirees (Tea Party) are stupid, but just how stupid do they think women and Latinos are? Obviously VERY…

Keep insulting Americans’ intelligence. It’s worked so well thus far.

Schnirt!

larry

October 6th, 2010
9:16 am

Tea party…………………….”KEEP THE GOVERNMENTS HANDS OF MY MEDICARE!!!!

And you wonder why ?

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
9:20 am

8 years of hyperpartisan Bush bashing

8 years?

I find it remarkable that so many GOP supporters have such terrible memories that they’ve genuinely forgotten themselves, or perhaps simply hope that others have forgotten, the period when the President’s approvals were in the stratosphere and it was considered “hating America” to say anything terribly nasty about him (a.k.a. that year or two of coasting Bush was afforded after 9/11).

Jefferson

October 6th, 2010
9:20 am

Sounds like the races are getting tighter.

TaxPayer

October 6th, 2010
9:21 am

Whenever we need to add a veggie to the dinner menu, we just stir a tablespoon of broccoli into the mac and cheese or in with the mashed taters. That way, just one little bag of frozen broccoli provides us with a veggie serving for at least fifty meals. Veggies ain’t cheap when you compare them with just about any meat on a cost per ounce of protein basis, like real men do. So, you’re much better off with ground beef or even that cheap imitation beef — I think they call it ground turkey or something like that — than you are with any veggie.

jconservative

October 6th, 2010
9:22 am

Please recall that two people wanted the Sec of State job after Obama was elected, Joe Biden and John Kerry. But Obama wanted Clinton. Biden settled for VP and Kerry settled for Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Any scenario among these three is not out of the question.

Joseph

October 6th, 2010
9:24 am

Even Hillary wouldn’t stoop that low Jay. I realize you libs are already grasping for straws to hopefully get Obama reelected but it won’t happen. Did you see the poll which said that only 38% of voters would vote for another 4 years of incompetence? You do realize reality is starting to sink in with most normal thinking Americans that this guy is simply not up to the job. I’m sure many people who voted for this inept man felt all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that they voted for a half black person for President. This in turn gave them high self esteem and assured them that they were in no way raciest because of their vote. LOL… My my has the tide turned but of course the race card will be played from now until Election Day in 2012

TaxPayer

October 6th, 2010
9:26 am

Warning! Race card played at 9:24.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
9:26 am

just how stupid do they think women and Latinos are?

The Dems aren’t (generally) the guys who want to criminalize elective first trimester abortion and render non-personhood to millions who were born in this country.

That’d be (generally) the other major political party.

And yes, I know pro-choice/not-stupid-on-immigration Republicans exist, hence the “generally”s.

Left wing management

October 6th, 2010
9:28 am

“With an approval rating of roughly 45 percent, Obama is well ahead of where Ronald Reagan was at this point in his presidency, and if Republicans gain control of Congress this fall, OBAMA’S APPROVAL RATING IS LIKELY TO SOAR”

Thanks for this one, Jay. Music to my ears.

Normal

October 6th, 2010
9:29 am

SoCo,
Thanks…and did I ever tell you that you are a man with an eye
for recognizing true Class… :D

Left wing management

October 6th, 2010
9:33 am

Joseph 9:24:

What’s a ‘lib’ ?

The Boner's Tan Line

October 6th, 2010
9:33 am

The Boner doesn’t care how the Democrats switch things around, they’ll not be in the White House after January 20, 2013. You can take that to the bank!

The Boner had a hot date with Lizzie the lobbyist last night. He entertained her in the mansion with romantic candlelight, good Christian music, fine wine, etc.

All was going gangbusters til Lizzie’s hubby walked in on them when they were really getting down to “business.”

There was a bunch of screaming coming from Lizzie, but the Boner was cool as a cucumber.

Lizzie’s hubby pulled a gun from his pants pocket and started in shooting up the furnishings.

He took out a very expensive Tiffany lamp, and that’s when the Boner sprang into action. He ran over to the guy and tried to take the gun away from him, and in the scuffle, poor Boner suffered a bullet injury to his nekkid privates. He was jumping around and hollering to beat the band! Luckily, the bullet just passed on through.

Lizzie’s hubby took off out the door so fast it would have made your head spin.

Lizzie tried her best to get the Boner to sit down and let her take a look, but he was in such pain, he just had to keep moving. Finally he did calm down and Lizzie doctored him up and told him she thought he would be okay.

They decided not to call for medical aid because the left wing bought and paid for media would surely find out and then the Boner couldn’t win the Presidency.

The Boner may not be able to get it up for awhile, but he’s still looking forward to being President.

After all is said and done, you can’t keep a good man down.

@@

October 6th, 2010
9:34 am

And you wonder why ?

Medicare was a disaster waiting to happen. A promise made SHOULD be a promise kept.

Never put your trust in government. They WILL let your house burn down.

@@

October 6th, 2010
9:38 am

stands:

The Dems aren’t (generally) the guys who want to criminalize elective first trimester abortion and render non-personhood to millions who were born in this country.

Wrong on both claims. The difference is in the methodology.

jm

October 6th, 2010
9:43 am

Jay, George Stephanopolis and Jack Tapper think this is a bunch of hogwash. Just marketing for his new book….

jm

October 6th, 2010
9:45 am

In other random news: Rain causes Earthquakes. Who knew?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101005131958.htm

AmVet

October 6th, 2010
9:46 am

The country has moved left. The country has moved right.

Rubbish.

We’re just trying like hell to move *ahead* with a hundred ton elephant and donkey tied to our necks.

More and more Americans are FINALLY starting to wake up to the fact that the Tweedledee and Twedleedum Parties are colossal failures. And there is no real chance of that ever changing now.

Yep, waking up to the fact that they are to some extent or another they are the War First parties. That they are anti-worker and anti-consumer. That they are little more than water carriers for their corporate paymasters. That they no longer even feign representing or protecting you and me.

Sure, we still have that plenty of goofballs who contend that in about four weeks, the November Revolution (sounds commie to me!), is going to be the most righteous time in our long history when “We take back our country!”

Melodramatic nonsense.

But these are the very people who, by and large are civically ignorant anyway. And are utterly uninvolved in producing – or even advocating for – ANY substantial changes to the stranglehold of the dismal duopoly and their clearly failed system.

They talk a big game, but are they willing to take any risks and make any sacrifices? No. So they do the exact same thing they’ve always done. They actually believe “their” ultra-bribale and inept R&D lackeys in Washington and Atlanta. Because it is the easiest option available.

And they sell off our futures and that of our children for a few more pieces of silver.

And worse, the people they vote for and seemingly adore, lack virtually any moral courage to do the right things. And these men will never ever attempt to reclaim our sold off our sovereignty.

So spare me this claptrap about decent, law abiding, hard working, middle class, American families moving to the left or moving to the right.

We’re all moving/falling further and further behind…

“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. They are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

barking frog

October 6th, 2010
9:48 am

Hilary was not chosen as VP in 2008 because
she would not have helped Obama. The same will
apply in 2012.

Del

October 6th, 2010
9:48 am

“and if Republicans gain control of congress this fall, Obama’s approval rating is likely to soar”.
If Republicans gain control and play politics as the Democrats have done, Jay’s prediction is probably accurate. If on the other hand they focus their energy addressing the issues and produce visible results, Obama’s approval rating probably won’t move up very much. Unlike Clinton who was wise enough to move to the center and work with a Republican congress, Obama’s arrogance and deeply entrenched ideology will prevent him from doing the same, thus instead of his approval soaring, it could continue souring.

jm

October 6th, 2010
9:48 am

AmVet – Monds. That last post might’ve given you carpal tunnel syndrome. May I suggest just typing “Monds!” next time.

larry

October 6th, 2010
9:54 am

Never put your trust in government.

Never put your trust in corporate america. Corrected your typo.

jm

October 6th, 2010
9:54 am

Let’s contemplate Monds for a moment.

On the negative side:
The guy is generally (very) inexperienced in government, politics, and management.
It’s impossible to know the guy’s true values.
A recession is no time to pick an idiot
The state, laws, and economic issues are more complicated than in previous “times”

On the plus side:
The guy has a decent education and marginally ok real world experience
Compared to the governors of decades long past, he’s a top notch candidate
His platform is socially liberal and fiscally conservative as Libertarians should be – awesome
The guy won’t be beholden to previously entrenched interests

It would be nice if the media (including Jay Bookman) contemplated Monds more, and did more research on him.

Jack

October 6th, 2010
9:57 am

I’ll never forget Hillary’s promise to do away with income disparities. I’ll never forget that Hillary said that companies that couldn’t afford to pay employee health insurance shouldn’t be in business. And I’ll never forget that her political ambitions far outweigh her need to serve this country well. She and Bill need to go somewhere and write some books.

Normal

October 6th, 2010
9:59 am

jm

October 6th, 2010
9:45 am

I always knew rain causes earthquakes, but I thought it was because the pitter patter of little rain drops caused vibrations that went through out the earths core and met with other rain drop vibrations and they melded and got stronger and stronger as other vibrations joined in and pretty soon, it began to achieve sympathetic vibrations and then BOOM! No more California…or Equador…or Indonesia…

What? Yes doctor, I just took them…can I go now?

AmVet

October 6th, 2010
10:08 am

jm, I am surprised that of all the posters here, you are the one to posit that 9:48.

And don’t you agree that is is very odd that you did not dispute anything – not one single point – in what I just wrote. Merely that you were apparently disturbed by the length of it.

And proffering that that information could simply be replaced by substituting a Libertarian candidate for Georgia governor is a canard of the highest order.

Though I too am inclined to vote for Monds at this point, I have read his web site numerous times and there are some major flaws in some of his positions. I have voted Independent/Green/Libertarian for a long while now, including in four out of the past five presidential elections, so all of these newly found “independent” experts don’t impress me too much.

However, if you would like to discuss any portion of my 9:46, then by all means do so…

barking frog

October 6th, 2010
10:13 am

Bob Woodward is challenged, in more ways than one.

StJ

October 6th, 2010
10:15 am

“…Republicans treat Bill and Hillary these days as moderate, sensible Democrats, after years in which they lambasted the two as far-left, corrupt, anti-American countercultural hippie socialists.”

Compared to Obama, they are moderates. (A Congress controlled by the opposing party also helped neuter Bill’s socialistic ambitions, so he decided to entertain himself with interns instead.)

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
10:16 am

Something to bookmark for times like this–gallup’s historical Presidential polling:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/Presidential-Approval-Ratings-Gallup-Historical-Statistics-Trends.aspx#2

And @@, you can go ahead and believe that the GOP neither wishes to re-criminalize first trimester abortion nor declare those born in the US to undocumented immigrants as non-persons. But when you’re on record as thinking Roe v. Wade was wrong, and if you’re on record as wishing to repeal the 14th amendment, you’re effectively doing just that.

TaxPayer

October 6th, 2010
10:17 am

I just want sugar-glazed peanuts, that are safe to eat, at a reasonable price. Is that too much to ask.

songbird

October 6th, 2010
10:19 am

very eloquent AmVet!

Left wing management

October 6th, 2010
10:26 am

StJ 10:15:

If you think Obama is more ’socialistic’ than Bill and Hillary, that indicates you’re probably under age 25 and not really up on your recent history.

@@

October 6th, 2010
10:27 am

larry:

Never put your trust in corporate america. Corrected your typo.

Did I ask you to fix anything? No.

Every two weeks, like clockwork, a paycheck is deposited into our bank account. Can’t complain.

O.K., this thread is on life support.

Maybe later…

jm

October 6th, 2010
10:29 am

AmVet 10:08 – didn’t have the time to respond at length, wasn’t being flippant. I don’t like the power big business uses to its advantage. But I do like business.

It’s still hard to respond to your statements. There wasn’t a question to respond to. So if I can lump it all together as an “anti-business” post, then we’ll just have to disagree. If it’s an “anti-big-business throwing their weight around in politics too much” post, then we tend to agree, and not much to discuss. Please keep in mind, that without big business though, we would be internationally uncompetitive. It’s not easy for a mom and pop to build jet engines and turbines for export to the ME and Asia.

chuck

October 6th, 2010
10:32 am

Yep. That’s what I think of when I think about Joe Biden…DIPLOMACY!

chuck

October 6th, 2010
10:39 am

SCOUT: “It’s the old “Frog in the Kettle” analogy. We just don’t realize what is happening to this Republic.”

This is so true. However, it only took 2 years of Barack HUSSEIN Obama to wake up the electorate. This administration brought all of these changes to the surface because now they are beginning to effect our way of life. That’s why the GOP is going to be given ONE MORE CHANCE to turn things around. If they don’t return us to more traditional values, they will get kicked out too and a third party will appear. You can mark that down.

larry

October 6th, 2010
10:43 am

I see the GOPs talking points have made it to the blog. And this admistration has made changes that has begun to effect our way of life.

Like a tax cut and telling health insurance companies they can not kick us around anymore or drop us like a concrete block when we get sick. I happen to like those changes.

jm

October 6th, 2010
10:46 am

An interesting deep dive review of Obama’s presidency and how we got where we are today….

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10/06/gloria.borger.sweep/index.html

AmVet

October 6th, 2010
10:46 am

sonbird, thanks. BTW, love your moniker.

jm, some people here do not seem interested in addressing these issues in any depth. They like their “answers” to be of the bumper-sticker variety – Mission Accomplish, Support the Troops, etc…

Oftentimes, because they demonstrate a shocking lack of knowledge about the subject at hand.

So instead we get a plethora of these puerile labels like socialist, parasite, anti-American, etc and ridiculous, fallacious statements, left and right. (get it?)

I’m not interested in engaging those bloggers and their nonsense.

However, I am encouraged that some of the more strident Bush and neo-con apologists are starting to realize the error of their ways. And the consequences thereof.

I advocated against Obama. I warned my lib friends that he was going to be a major disappointment. I believe I was correct. However, he has made some baby steps in the right direction and it is irrefutable that he is still a helluva sight better than his gawdawful predecessor.

Perhaps if enough BHO supporters start to see through that pretentious but nearly empty slogan of Hope & Change, he will take note and begin working on the most compelling issues of our time in a substantive and courageous way. Rather than selling out to the same men who owned Bush and Clinton and Bush and Reagan and…

It’s good to have a dream, isn’t it?

paleo-neo-Carlinist

October 6th, 2010
10:49 am

this pairs nicely with the “if you vote libertarian, you’re wasting your vote” crowd. where’s the “choice”? if Hillary has the chops and cajones to run against Obama, the law of nature says it will make the party stronger? this is what chaps my behind about the two party system. there is no choice. just as there is horse-trading across the aisle, there is intra-party horse-trading, which stifles “progress” (maybe Dems aren’t really “progressive”?). I think the GOP’s nomination process is a bit more transparent (candid). they hand-pick a guy, like W in 2000 and they shove him down the party’s throat. OR, in the case of 2008, they hand-pick a sacrificial lamb and float a completely bat-sh*t test balloon (Palin) because they know, that after 8 years of Bush-Cheney, NO GOP nominee was going to end up in the White House. it’s sad, the GOP addresses “risk” on the front end and rolls full speed ahead, while the “don’t offend anyone” Democrats can’t seem to pick one formula and stick with it, but as I said, either way, it’s not like true believers on either side (voters) are going to jump ship because of a new batting order. is the “lipstick on a pig” metaphor still in play?

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
10:50 am

That’s what I think of when I think about Joe Biden…DIPLOMACY!

I know this is going to be difficult to process, but a few modest gaffes over the past few years do not a buffoon make. (And they were modest, and they were few, and they weren’t necessarily gaffes. Obama IS clean and articulate. HCR IS a big [bleep]in’ deal. Und so weiter.)

I never cared much for Biden prior to 2008, I considered him an MBNA-financed corporate skank ho’, but the nation owes him a debt of gratitude for making it ok to ridicule Rudy “9/11″ Giuliani and, by extension, those who expect “but we’re fightin’ TERRA!” to be some kind of conversation-stopper.

SoS is probably the gig he’s wanted most of his life, and I’m sure he’d be fine in that role.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
10:53 am

I warned my lib friends that he was going to be a major disappointment.

Your “lib friends” are rather stupid if they thought he was going to be Che Guevara in a suit and tie. I saw him as the most conservative of the three candidates still in the running on Super Tuesday, myself.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
10:55 am

And anyone who bothered to read The Audacity of Hope is aware that more than anything else, Obama is a guy who really really really wants to consider what the other political side(s) has/have of value to offer.

You may find that foolish/impractical, but he yam what he yam.

Granny Godzilla

October 6th, 2010
10:56 am

I really have my hopes set on Hillary on the Supreme Court.

She’d be great.

I figure Roberts will retire early, he’s already been vocal about his inadequate salary…..Can’t imagine that man not wanting to parlay a few years a CJSCOTUS into a big money, big business career.

barking frog

October 6th, 2010
10:58 am

Joe Biden will not be Secretary of State in an Obama Administration.

Wahoo

October 6th, 2010
11:00 am

I agree with Jay that the Hillary to VP and Biden to SoS switch is unlikely. I could see Hillary being elevated to VP if Obama thought it was in his best interest. But that leaves Biden to do….what, exactly? The thought of Biden, a ticking time bomb for communication gaffes, as our chief diplomat, is ludicrous.

Don't Forget

October 6th, 2010
11:02 am

paleo-neo-Carlinist

October 6th, 2010
10:49 am
I think the GOP’s nomination process is a bit more transparent (candid). they hand-pick a guy, like W in 2000 and they shove him down the party’s throat.

Seniority plays a pretty big role in the r’s nomination process but 2000 was a little different. McCain was in a pretty good position to win the nomination but he got “Roved” in south carolina when the bush campaign put out robocalls that insinuated that McCain had an illegitimate mixed race child.

Gator Joe

October 6th, 2010
11:05 am

Jay,
Secretary of State Clinton would be unacceptable to the Right Wing as a vise president or president because she is over qualified according to their standards. Overqualified, because she is a strong, smart woman.

Doggone/GA

October 6th, 2010
11:05 am

“just as there is horse-trading across the aisle, there is intra-party horse-trading”

And there’s always will be. Here’s the bottom-line (near quote, don’t know who said it): In a republic, compromises are made before the election. In a parliamentary system, they are made after.

There’s no getting away from it, when it comes down to time to vote there are only 2 “parties” – those who vote yes, and those who vote no.

godless heathen

October 6th, 2010
11:07 am

I doubt Hillary will hitch her wagon to a falling star.

As for aspirations to run in 2013, have you seen her lately? Really letting herself go. She’s going to have to do a lot of sit-ups between now and then.

Don't Forget

October 6th, 2010
11:07 am

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:10 am

sfd – Biden passed when given choice to have SoS position. He chose VP instead. Hard to see how that might change. Especially given his sometimes loose choice of words, I don’t think he’d go to SoS.

Retire? Maybe.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
11:10 am

GG @ 10.56, Hillary’s too old to be nominated to the Court (Obama needs to nominate people who will outlive the Five Stooges), but not too old to run for President in 2016.

AmVet

October 6th, 2010
11:12 am

“McCain was in a pretty good position to win the nomination but he got “Roved” in south carolina when the bush campaign put out robocalls that insinuated that McCain had an illegitimate mixed race child.”

True dat, Don’t Forget.

But an even bigger reason, in my opinion, was that the Rove slime machine and Republican Party apparatus painted him as something completely unacceptable to modern day Republicans.

A moderate.

If one does not pass the Purity Test and if one does not advocate the most extreme of positions across the board, they are deemed RINOs.

And that is a big part of why they got completely blown out of the water in both 2006 and 2008.

But our ADD electorate is once again going to try to conveniently forget the endless debacles, and nearly 5,000 GIs KIA’d needlessly, that were implemented when those right wing extremists were in power.

And the Tea Party, though they promote themselves as something new and different, are in way too many cases, merely the most extreme of the GOP’s extreme fringe…

Dirty Dawg

October 6th, 2010
11:12 am

Makes perfect sense…assuming Hillary’s interested in a ‘16 run at the top job and that the VP job will be ‘re-defined’ from what it is now. As for Biden, I would expect he’d rather do SoS than the role he has now, and he certainly hasn’t made much of a difference in lobbying the Senate.

I note that the ‘usual suspects’ are out here today throwing around their ‘usual’ name-calling at Obama…socialist, Marxist and the like. It’s their job to spout ’simple-minded’ labels for the simple-minded to hear. And you are simple-minded you know…cause I doubt if any of you here – other than the ones being paid to do this by some greedy billionaire and his ‘tax-exempt’ foundation – haven’t been helped by Obama’s efforts and his administration’s accomplishments, limited as they may be after having to ‘hit the ball and drag Republicans’ for the first 20, or so, months. And yes, many of us ‘Libs’ have been disappointed in some of what Obama and his people have done, or not done, but our disappointment hasn’t been what you probably would like. I, for example, had hoped that at least half of the Bush/Cheney administration would have been in jail by now or lined-up against the wall and shot (after a fair trial of course) by now, and that especially includes Dick…but that’s just me.

larry

October 6th, 2010
11:15 am

David Granger

October 6th, 2010
11:16 am

Hillary brings way too much baggage. She’s a left-wing version of Sarah Palin…gets a big group of the hard-core supporters excited, but they would support the ticket anyway. And she repulses all the middle-of-the-road independent voters.

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:16 am

sfd – by that great logic (that has been in use by Presidents for a while now), we should start nominating Graduate Law School Students.

It’s kind of ridiculous, don’t you think? Pres’s keep nominating people who are younger and more obscure because the less of a record, the easier the confirmation.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
11:16 am

Biden passed when given choice to have SoS position.

I actually wasn’t aware of this. But it’s not terribly important to me; the only point I was trying to make was that Biden would be an asset as SoS, and that his supposed propensity for actually speaking his mind on occasion was IMHO overblown.

Retire?

If he stepped down and became the spokesmodel for Capital One, I wouldn’t really care all that much. Although those enormous teeth of his on my TeeVee asking “What’s in YOUR wallet?” might take some getting used to.

stands for decibels

October 6th, 2010
11:17 am

It’s kind of ridiculous, don’t you think?

Perhaps, but GHWBush set the gold standard with the 43-year-old Clarence Thomas in 1991, methinks.

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:25 am

sfd – Thomas – true…

paleo-neo-Carlinist

October 6th, 2010
11:26 am

Don’t Forget, exactly (”Roved out”). The GOP doesn’t leave things to chance (”hope and change” need not apply). McCain had some traction with the voters, but no cred with the movers and shakers within the party (or the corporate masters holding the puppet strings). this is why, as time goes by, I admire Bush for being the “perfect President”. of course this is only true when you accept the President does not serve the people. so, when McCain became more than a blip on the radar, the GOP put Rove on his ass, and before you could say South Carolina, we got Bush and McCain got the parting gift in 2008 (a suicide mission). but as stated, even a resurrected Ronald Reagan could not have beaten Obama, and not because Obama and the Dems offered and “hope and change” but simply because Bush years exceeded the “tipping point” and the pendulum always swings back.

Granny, I don’t like Hillary on the SCOTUS. she’s a politician and a diplomat, not a “jurist” or legal scholar. she’s shrewd and calculating and cynical, and I don’t want that on my SCOTUS. she’s better suited on the policy side, even if I don’t sign off on her “policy” ideas.

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:30 am

This is a fantastic review of Health Care Reform (From the NY Times)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/06/business/economy/06leonhardt.html

Don't Forget

October 6th, 2010
11:33 am

It all comes down to whether Hillary wants to run in 2016. If she does, it’s the most logical move to position her for both the nomination and the general election. If she doesn’t want to run, it makes no sense at all. She probably hasn’t decided yet.

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:46 am

Kudlow bullish on economy…. a good read for anyone who likes or hates Boehner, corporations, tax cuts… etc etc.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/10/06/the_economy_could_explode_on_the_upside_98704.html

Don't Forget

October 6th, 2010
11:48 am

jm

October 6th, 2010
11:30 am

In 2014, however, the choice for McDonald’s workers will no longer be between a bad policy and no policy. Through the exchanges, they will be able to buy a real health insurance plan — one that covers cancer, heart attacks, surgeries, M.R.I.’s and hospital stays. Dr. Carroll notes that many families will end up paying less than they are now paying out of pocket and will get more access to care, too.

For insurance companies, these changes won’t be quite so positive. They will no longer be able to sell plans that devote 30 percent of revenue to salaries for their workers. They will not be allowed to compete over which company can come up with the most ingenious ways to say no to the sick. Their benefits and prices will become more public, thanks to the exchanges.

The health care overhaul that passed Congress is far from ideal, as I have written many times in this space. But it does represent progress.

The fact that it is beginning to disrupt the status quo — that some insurance policies will eventually be eliminated and some inefficient insurers will have to leave the market altogether — is all the proof we need.

You’re right, a good analysis.

Don't Forget

October 6th, 2010
11:56 am

jm

After-tax profits through the second quarter are up $1.2 trillion, marking the third-highest profits share of the economy since 1947.

This is why I am skeptical about tax cuts for the wealthy helping with job growth. It’s as if the argument is that once the money pile gets high enough, some of it falls off into the economy.

chuck

October 6th, 2010
12:03 pm

SFD, “I saw him as the most conservative of the three candidates still in the running on Super Tuesday, myself.”

That proves that you are extremely naive when it comes to politics.

Doggone/GA

October 6th, 2010
12:04 pm

“when the bush campaign put out robocalls that insinuated that McCain had an illegitimate mixed race child.”

And up until then, even as liberal as I am, I quite liked McCain. But he had NO CLUE how to handle that, and that turned me off of him. If he couldn’t even handle something as minor as an election smear that wasn’t true…how did he expect us to believe he could handle what would be thrown at him in the general election, to say nothing of what he’d have to deal with if he was elected.