Founding Fathers would be horrified at today’s Senate
Wow.
Last night, U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina sent a message to his fellow senators, informing them that between now and Election Day, he intended to block votes on any legislation that he did not personally approve beforehand.
And under the arcane, archaic and anarchic “rules” of the Senate, one solo senator actually has the power to do so. Those rules are artifacts of a collegial Senate that disappeared long ago and is never returning, especially if DeMint and others have their way.
For months now, DeMint has made it pretty clear that he intends to challenge Minority Leader Mitch McConnell for de facto if not official control over the Republican Senate caucus come January. This current power play is just another step in that effort.
McConnell, you see, is much too accommodating for DeMint and others like him. In the four years that McConnell has served as Republican leader, they have turned to the filibuster to block Senate votes a mere 257 times, which is hardly nine times more than the total from 1919 to 1960.
And with more than 100 vacancies on the federal judiciary, a vacancy level that is making it difficult to conduct court business, the Senate has confirmed “fewer judges … during President Obama’s first 20 months in office than during any administration since Richard Nixon’s,” which further proves that McConnell is an Obama lackey.
And just to be clear: Filibusters, holds and other devices used to block votes in the Senate are not constitutional provisions. To the contrary, the Founding Fathers who drafted the Constitution distrusted requirements for a legislative supermajority, and limited their use to only a handful of very specific cases and well-defined cases, such as passage of treaties, impeachment and removal of a member.
Alexander Hamilton
“To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser,” Alexander Hamilton warned in Federalist No. 22, explaining why he and other drafters rejected its use in most cases.
In Federalist No. 75, Hamilton wrote that “all provisions which require more than the majority of any body to its resolutions, have a direct tendency to embarrass the operations of the government, and an indirect one to subject the sense of the majority to that of the minority… And the history of every political establishment in which this principle has prevailed, is a history of impotence, perplexity, and disorder.”
In Federalist No. 58, the “Father of the Constitution,” James Madison, himself takes up the cudgel against requirements for more than a majority to conduct business.
James Madison
“In all cases where justice or the general good might require new laws to be passed, or active measures to be pursued, the fundamental principle of free government would be reversed,” he warned. “It would be no longer the majority that would rule: the power would be transferred to the minority. Were the defensive privilege limited to particular cases, an interested minority might take advantage of it to screen themselves from equitable sacrifices to the general weal, or, in particular emergencies, to extort unreasonable indulgences.”
Smart guy, that Jamie. He would no doubt react in horror to what DeMint and others are attempting to do to his creation, particularly since they claim to be acting in defense of the very Constitution that they trod upon.
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568 comments Add your comment
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:05 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrJ1EUrJhOQ
A carved oak table
Tells a tail
Of times when kings and queens sipped wine from goblets gold
And the brave would lead their ladies from out the room to arbours cool
A time of valour, and legends born
A time when honour meant much more to a man than life
And the days knew only strife to tell right from wrong
Through lance and sword
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
4:05 pm
…history, I fear, does indeed lead to enchantment!
I recommend googling Hamilton+Burr when confronted with that delusion of civility in the days of yore.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:08 pm
Bruno – that is why I like the penny stocks – infinite upside, but can only go down to zero……..
Left wing management
September 28th, 2010
4:08 pm
When I see Jim DeMint interviewed on tv, there’s a smarminess in his smile that gives televangelists a run for their money. He’s perfect.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:09 pm
Matti – as I said – just curious. And maybe I’m reading more into it than there is……..blogs don’t come with much insight.
TaxPayer
September 28th, 2010
4:09 pm
Reason enough for a law to ban cloning?
What difference would it make with the inbred.
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
4:10 pm
Dangit, B.
Now I’ve got *orange* songs on my mind!
For Hillbilly…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXNwVnOZ6BU&feature=related
Paul
September 28th, 2010
4:11 pm
TaxPayer
But he’s high-born. Just look at that posture, the contemptuous gaze down the nose -
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:11 pm
That’s what Brett Michaels, Tommy Lee and Axel Rose and them did back in the 80’s.
I guess I was always more of a 70s stoner than an 80s rocker, but here’s for you, Matti. Love always, ok?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6SDIpETcgE
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:11 pm
RW
I’m not talking to you!!!
Jay
September 28th, 2010
4:11 pm
Not a simple question, Paul.
The Senate operates under the theory that it is one continuous body stretching back to 1792 or thereabouts. And any change of the rules of that continuous body would require a vote of I believe two-thirds (although it may be 60 percent — I’m headed into a meeting so don’t have time to check.)
Getting that many votes for a rule change is almost impossible. However, if the Senate were to decide at the start of a two-year congressional cycle that it was a NEW body, setting NEW rules, then it would only take a majority to make that change.
However going the second route would engender sturm und drang like we haven’t seen in a long time.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:12 pm
Now I’ve got *orange* songs on my mind!
LOL @ Amvet…….
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:14 pm
Sturm und Drang? Ach! Hmmmmm…..
Pogo
September 28th, 2010
4:16 pm
Jay laments the “arcane, archaic and anarchic “rules” of the Senate”. It is always laughable to see whichever party that currently is not in power or those that are in power but who cannot operate in the omni-potent way they want to because of all those “silly” rules and the constraints of our constitution knash their teeth about changing the constitution, changing the congressional rules, changing whatever it takes to further their agenda. They demand they be changed until those very same rules can benefit them and then they those rules are all hunky-dory.
Who exactly is Jay Bookman to be calling for re-writing any rules of any government branch anyway? Jay is a political hack for the progressive/liberal cause and he demonstrates that here day in and day out. Why should those who are not progressive/democratic lackeys (like himself) take him and his crying seriously? The answer? No-one should.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:16 pm
The Senate operates under the theory that it is one continuous body stretching back to 1792 or thereabouts.
“The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.”—Plutarch, Theseus
TaxPayer
September 28th, 2010
4:16 pm
But he’s high-born. Just look at that posture, the contemptuous gaze down the nose -
And you cannot get that through natural selection.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:17 pm
“However going the second route would engender sturm und drang like we haven’t seen in a long time.”
And some of us would argue that is all we’ve been seeing.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:18 pm
Only one last depressing chore to accomplish–Cancel all my utilities. I’m gonna miss my little house.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
4:19 pm
Didn’t Senator Brooks beat Senator Sumner with a cane back in the 1850’s? Haven’t seen any of that happening lately.
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
4:19 pm
I’m not talking to you!!!
josef,
Good idea! It’ll keep you from being whined about by the Department of Redundancy Department.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:19 pm
md
And I would be on the side of that argument…
Chris D.
September 28th, 2010
4:20 pm
Jay…Bet you will be all FOR holding the senate hostage come January if the Repubs take back control? I’m saving your article to make sure you are not a hypocrit in your future writings.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:21 pm
Bruno – just think, leaving Atl one gains 1-3 hours of their life back per day just by getting out of the traffic. That alone made my move worth it.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:21 pm
Hillbilly
You beat me to it!
RW
Paul
September 28th, 2010
4:21 pm
Jay 4:11
I was afraid of that.
Thank you.
Chris D.
September 28th, 2010
4:22 pm
P.S. Jay I agree that the Founding Fathers would be horrified at todays senate. Mostly because the senate was set up as the States representation in government. Not another people’s popular electorate house. They should go back to senators being appointed, not popular vote elected
Matti
September 28th, 2010
4:25 pm
Bruno,
You’ll still visit us here, right? It’s not like you’re moving to the other side of the world.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
4:26 pm
You beat me to it!
Maybe you shouldn’t say “beat”, when referring to a caning.
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
4:26 pm
Paul,
Here’s a thread where we went through that rule change stuff. I haven’t gone through the comments to see if we ever actually accomplished anything.</a.
Love this part.
That was hardly the only change being contemplated. Rewriting Senate rules requires a two-thirds majority, which the Republicans didn’t have. So the Republicans were threatening to strip the minority of its historic right to filibuster by ignoring the equally historic requirement of a two-thirds majority to change Senate rules. If carried out, such a revolution would permanently alter the core nature and tradition of the Senate.
No quotes from the founders about how horrible those historic precedents were though.
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
4:27 pm
Well I certainly butchered the coding in that 4:26, but it still gets you there.
Matti
September 28th, 2010
4:30 pm
Bruno,
21st-Century 70’s band:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUKvfKzHYTg
In each song (first album) you can identify a different 70’s influence. Pretty cool, IMO.
Bosch
September 28th, 2010
4:30 pm
Oooooooo — Matti knows the Wolfmother. They are a cool treat.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:32 pm
md @ 4:21– 1.5 hours per day savings for me, plus working 1/2 day less. Unfortunately, too much free time gets me in trouble. I’d rather be working.
Matti @ 4:25– I hope my new life doesn’t involve too much time on the computer. I won’t have internet for a few months anyway. I’m sure that I’ve already said all that I can say, likely twice or more.
Phone canceled, now have to deal with Comcast……
Paul
September 28th, 2010
4:33 pm
RW-(the original)
Yes, it does take me there.
Thanks much.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:33 pm
Hillbilly
My Freudian slip’s been dragging the ground lately!
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
4:34 pm
BRUNO
Life without internet? That just ain’t right….
A private sector employee
September 28th, 2010
4:36 pm
In our founding father’s time, Senators were appointed by the states to represent state’s interests and protect states rights. Yeah, they would be horrified that Senators are now elected by popular vote in each state.
Mystified
September 28th, 2010
4:38 pm
Wahoo. You’re awsome. I defer.
Pogo
September 28th, 2010
4:39 pm
Kind of like Chavez wants to do down South, right Chris D?
Netbanker
September 28th, 2010
4:43 pm
“Because we all have the right to pursue it, but when it becomes completely unobtainable for most of the populace, then there is no longer any means for the pursuit.” Who says happiness is unobtainable? Don’t we each set our own criteria for happiness? How do you determine if someone’s criteria for happiness is realistic or not? Lasting happiness isn’t found in things, but in ourselves and our connections to others. Unfortunately we’ve become a nation that has bought into all the marketing BS that tells us if we buy X product or live in a certain sized house or drive a particular car, or wear the correct cologne, or “insert overblown claim here” then we’ll either be happy or happier than we are without it. There are a few studies out that show people in less developed countries measure their own happiness levels higher than in developed nations…probably because they don’t have mass marketing telling them how unhappy they should be.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:44 pm
“In our founding father’s time, Senators were appointed by the states to represent state’s interests and protect states rights.”
Maybe we need to quit calling them US Senators – looks as if it went to their head and they think they work for the Feds. Call them State Representatives and maybe they can remember why they are there.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
4:45 pm
Offtopic but hilarious:
From the Gwinnett County Vent:
Denny’s has a new Octomom breakfast: Eight eggs, no sausage and the guy at the next table pays the bill.
md
September 28th, 2010
4:47 pm
“Life without internet? That just ain’t right….”
Not too sure it isn’t better. Kind of miss the days when folks weren’t connected 24/7 and people actually drove the car as option number one.
Matti
September 28th, 2010
4:52 pm
Call them State Representatives and maybe they can remember why they are there.
We have state representatvies now who don’t represent us. They represent themselves and their friends, at whatever level they hold office. Why? It’s not because they’re too illiterate to read their job descriptions; it’s because the electorate is not paying attention to what they DO in office, but prefers to be distracted by the circus of spin, outrage, and pep-rally politics. Paying attention is hard. Holding them accountable takes effort. Much easier to grab a sound bite, claim to be informed, and go back to fighting the culture wars. The only purpose of the culture wars is to divide us, and a people divided are a people conquered. Suckers. Yes, we are.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
4:57 pm
Hey NetBanker!! If only Mara and JokesOn were here, we would have a true W2W reunion. Hope all is well with you, friend.
md
September 28th, 2010
5:00 pm
“Call them State Representatives and maybe they can remember why they are there.”
Guess I needed to add sarc at the end of my post.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
5:02 pm
md
And there’s just something about turning the pages of a book…not to mention they can be read by candlelight when the power goes off…
Hillbilly
That’s a good one!
Matti
September 28th, 2010
5:08 pm
Netbanker @ 4:43,
AMEN brother! Nicely put. (BTW, you knew me on W2W by a different name..) I have to laugh when any suggestion that the top 2% don’t need a tax cut is met with an avalanche of “Wealth Envy!” accusations. Achievements, experiences, friendships, and family (okay some of them) contribute far more to happiness than whether one can afford the new offering by Apple or Mercedes. You don’t need a $300 coffee maker to make great coffee, or a $400 pair of shoes to rock an outfit, but some people just don’t see that.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
5:10 pm
Don’t mess with Elmo.
http://news.mydaily.com/2010/09/28/elmo-strikes-back/?ncid=webmail
md
September 28th, 2010
5:15 pm
“And there’s just something about turning the pages of a book…not to mention they can be read by candlelight when the power goes off…”
And I’ve seen a few book readers behind the wheel too……..but I concur.
Pogo
September 28th, 2010
5:16 pm
In the end, the Octomom always knew she could depend upon the US government to take care of her stupidity and mistakes in judgement, no matter how absurd. This is the case with way too many people in this country now. She is a shining example of how people will abuse the system if they know that they have a safety net provided by the government. That is the system that the Democrats have laid out for us and that is why we are headed for a third world country economic status.
md
September 28th, 2010
5:18 pm
“any suggestion that the top 2% don’t need a tax cut”
Is it better to bake more pies or fight over the slices of one??
Matti
September 28th, 2010
5:27 pm
Pogo,
Octomom? Really? The Democrats forced that quack doctor to load her crazy azz up with embryos? How does “octomom” even happen in the first place? (How about because states across the country have had to cut programs for the mentally ill! Georgia is one of the worst.) If your solution to undesirables is simply to starve them out of existence, they why don’t you say so? Children should know better than to be born to irresponsible parents, right? If they didn’t when they got here, they sure WILL after you’re in charge? I’m sure given even more corporate welf— I mean, “tax incentives,” WalMart will hire those kids when they’re seven or eight.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
5:35 pm
Hillbilly
See what you stirred up with that Octomom? D*mn, you trying to take my job?
md
I always have mixed emotions in that instance…one side of me is glad they’re reading, but behind the wheel? I’ve always wanted to know what it is they’re reading, but not brave enough to get close enough to find out!
Jay
September 28th, 2010
5:36 pm
Yeah Pogo, because before gov’t programs came along nobody made stupid decisions….
md
September 28th, 2010
5:40 pm
“Yeah Pogo, because before gov’t programs came along nobody made stupid decisions….”
Jay – wasn’t your earlier argument based on quantity??
Same with gov’t programs…..
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
5:42 pm
See what you stirred up with that Octomom?
I do what I can.
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
5:43 pm
The Founding Fathers? Based on how they valued black people I’d say they would be horrified at having a black President as well.
Netbanker
September 28th, 2010
5:44 pm
Hey Bru-dog! So where are you moving? You think you’ll miss your house, but likely not as much as you expect. We did some serious downsizing by unexpectedly selling our big house in Avondale and moving into a condo 1/3 the size in Midtown. The unexpected part is that it wasn’t on the market and our former agent showed the house because we were out of town to do some skiing. About the only thing I miss is coming home on a hot day and being able to strip nekkid to jump in the pool…which I could still do, but it might freak out some of the people in the building.
“You don’t need a $300 coffee maker to make great coffee, or a $400 pair of shoes to rock an outfit, but some people just don’t see that.” Too true, Matti! Of course if you’re smart you can still have the designer duds or expensive coffee maker at a steep discount by shopping at the outlets when there is a killer sale or hitting consignment shops. But that partly goes back to the instant gratification we’ve come to expect…it takes time and patience to find the great bargain.
thomas
September 28th, 2010
5:45 pm
Jay nice piece, well written and full of examples.
I however, did not know that you took the Founding Fathers word on subjects as closely as you did, or apparently do.
If that is the case one would easily assume you are against ALL forms of welfare and/or wealth re-distribution, and therefore the health care reform law we recieved.
Because if you will read Thomas Jefferson and John Adams here (you would consider them founding fathers right?)he is very clear in the fact of another man’s labor and skill should not be used to offset the lack of another man’s skill or labor….and the property gained from that labor should not be taken or given to others who have not earned any right to that property.
“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.”
-John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787
Lil' Barry Bailout
September 28th, 2010
5:45 pm
Quit whining, Jay, your moron Democrat party had sixty votes in the Senate for quite a while. I suppose you won’t be happy until the Idiot Messiah has 100 little Democrat fascists in the Senate.
Lil' Barry Bailout
September 28th, 2010
5:47 pm
Jay
September 28th, 2010
5:36 pm
Yeah Pogo, because before gov’t programs came along nobody made stupid decisions….
———————–
People made stupid decisions, but they didn’t end up costing us trillions of dollar, as do the stupid decisions of your Idiot Messiah.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
5:47 pm
CorpVet
I’ll argue with you on that. I think that they’d be quite happy to see we have a man of color as President. I think they’d be relieved to know that the problem they grappled with and couldn’t solve has turned out as well as it has in what is really a very short time…
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
5:49 pm
In my opinion, “Thou shalt not covet”, is one of the least followed Commandments. Nearly everybody breaks that one, to one degree or another.
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
5:50 pm
I don’t know, josef. What was it, a black person represented 3/5 of a person? So if Obama’s 1/2 black, finding the common denominator he’d be 5/10 black yet a black person is only 6/10 of a person……..someone do the math.
thomas
September 28th, 2010
5:51 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
5:49 pm
And whats crazy is we would all be happier if we were able to.
Pennsylvanian
September 28th, 2010
5:52 pm
“…they would be horrified at having a black President as well.” Good thing that hasn’t happened yet?
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
5:52 pm
“…if they know that they have a safety net provided by the government.”
So a safety net is now viewed as some sort of evil arrangement? Until they need it, of course.
They vilify the weak and glorify the wicked.
Wow, talk about a startling contrast!
That first 5:45 was cogent, reasoned and reasonable and based upon facts.
The second 5:45 is its moronic antithesis…
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
5:55 pm
Back to my 5:50, if Obama’s 5/10 black yet the Founding Fathers considered black people only 6/10 of a person, then that would leave Obama being 3/10 of a person. I disagree with that. He’s a whole person, but a 3/10 President would be just about right.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
5:56 pm
CorpVet
A clarification…that 3/5 did not refer to black persons, but to slaves. Free people of color were counted as whole persons.
Left wing management
September 28th, 2010
5:56 pm
Pogo: “This is the case with way too many people in this country now. She is a shining example of how people will abuse the system if they know that they have a safety net provided by the government. That is the system that the Democrats have laid out for us and that is why we are headed for a third world country economic status”
See this folks? This is what you get when you have a national discourse that is taken over by a runaway right wing.
So you think that a ‘government safety net’ is what’s responsible for the abuse of the system?
Meanwhile I notice a deafening silence from you on the REAL system abuses, the ones that will land us in banana republic territory faster that you can bounce up and down on your pogo stick, the fact that CEOs of financial firms line their pockets on taxpayer money – OUR money – used to bail them out. Why the silence there Pogo?
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
5:56 pm
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
5:56 pm
Could they vote in 1787?
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 28th, 2010
5:58 pm
Well, count me in with the other Conservatives on this blog. If people want happiness they need to clap and cry out because they got a scrap of bread and a few beans on the table. Just don’t take money from us. The easiest way to be happy is to wake up every day glad you’re alive and can move around and beg for your dinner if you have to. We got ours and we aim to keep it. That’s what this election is about. I say to all the poor people and cripples out there, get out and work and get your own. I ain’t your Daddy. Stop trying to get the guvmint to pick my pocket.
Some Conservatives won’t come out and tell the truth. I just did. If you don’t like it, lump it.
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
5:59 pm
Hey, all “what the Founding Fathers would have thought” talk is lunacy. No one could possibly determine how they would react. Back then political differences could lead to a duel. The risk of life was greater, but I do believe politics is nastier than ever before.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
5:59 pm
NetB–Moving to Columbus, GA. Two weeks onto the new job, just have to finish packing up all my crap. I live pretty simply, but it’s amazing how much stuff you can accumulate in 12 years in 1 house. I’ll eventually have to give half my stuff away to Goodwill unless I want to pay storage fees for the rest of my life.
About the only thing I miss is coming home on a hot day and being able to strip nekkid to jump in the pool…which I could still do, but it might freak out some of the people in the building.
Still looking buff???
Jay
September 28th, 2010
5:59 pm
Thomas, I’d say those are value statements and political statements by Adams and Jefferson. I don’t see those quotes as explicating or referencing the workings of the U.S. Constitution, as the Federalist Papers clearly do.
The Federalist Papers tell us why the drafters did what they did in the Constitution and what they hoped to accomplish.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:00 pm
Hillbilly
I’m not at all trying to be sanctimonious here, but that commandment is the one which has caused me the least difficulty…the other nine? Well, there’s where I have a problem…
Florence King said you can always tell a Southerner…there’s always ONE commandment they won’t break and it’s generally the one that appeals to them the least!
thomas
September 28th, 2010
6:00 pm
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
5:52 pm
See not all conservatives think or act alike, contrary to popular belief on this blog, especially young 20 somethings as myself…..
Lil' Barry Bailout
September 28th, 2010
6:01 pm
If conservatives believe “we’ve got ours and we aim to keep it”, what do liberals believe?
You’ve got yours and we aim to take it?
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:02 pm
CorpVet
Many could. The disenfranchisement came more slowly and over a period of time.
BS Aplenty
September 28th, 2010
6:02 pm
Appears that Elvis may have purloined his wardrobe from the Founding Fathers and Madison in particular. With a little lip snarl, I believe the ‘Father of the Consitution’ would be a dead ringer for ‘The King’.
marko
September 28th, 2010
6:07 pm
Will Rogers said that if George Washington could see us today, he’d sue us for calling him father. That was over 50 years ago. At the time Will was commenting on the people that are now refered to as the greatest generation. Somehow I seriously doubt anybody will have many kind words to say about us in another 50 years. As for me , I’m thankful neither George nor Will are alive to witness what we’ve let their country become.
Matti
September 28th, 2010
6:10 pm
Hillbilly and joseph nix,
Know what I covet more than wealth? (Although I’d love the freedom to see more of the world…) (Okay, okay, so the really good Scotch takes serious coin, but really..) Faith. People seem to find comfort in the belief that “everything is going to be fine” if they just believe hard enough. Things will be GREAT and totally work out if we just ask the right way and trust. (Things not working out? You’re not trusting hard enough!) The truth is, many things are just NOT going to be fine and will never be fine, and there is no “meaning” or “purpose” to horrible tragedy. Some nights when I can’t sleep, I wish I could be “as a child” again, to know that some unseen giant was there to protect me, that somehow in the whole grand universe, lil’ ol’ me actually mattered. I see why people cling to it. Sleeping pills are too scary, and late night cable sux.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:11 pm
I’m not any too happy about where we are now either, but we’re no where near where we were in the 1850s or the 1870-80s…
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
6:14 pm
Matti
September 28th, 2010
6:10 pm
Not meaning to horn in because your comment wasn’t directed to me, but I have a different view of faith. Faith is not the panacea for everything that goes wrong. Instead, I find faith to be the thing that helps me cope with and endure the hard times. Not always easy but it has helped me in the past.
Jay
September 28th, 2010
6:14 pm
Well, Mr. Madison was around five foot one, I believe, which would have made him a mini-me for Elvis.
I can’t believe I just wrote that.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:16 pm
matti
Look, I’m not trying to pick an argument, okay? If I wanted to dwell on it, I could be a miserable wreck and I could tell you stories to make your hair stand on end, but I am a happy and content person because I dwell on that which is good. Faith is just that. If I have a choice between a faith that it will turn out for the best and faith that it will not, why shouldn’t I be an optimist?
Dave R.
September 28th, 2010
6:16 pm
I laugh every time Jay tries to cherry-pick his issues with the Founding Fathers, as if he can suddenly divine what they were thinking on ONE SINGLE ISSUE.
All the while IGNORING everything else they wrote about that Jay doesn’t agree with.
Like limited government. Reams of paper regarding that. An almost non-existent Federal presence. Same thing.
But all Jay can complain about is one Senator holding up the works that Jay LOVES, so now the Founding Fathers must have been geniuses.
Unlike Jay.
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
6:16 pm
Jay, you must be “All Shook Up”.
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
6:17 pm
thomas, I have read much of your contributions before. We’ve butted heads a few times, but you are both civil and bright. And I appreciate your posts. And notwithstanding that you are about half my age, I think there is much we can learn from each other.
Maybe I can even school ya on some of the sweet old school music! Like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz5iDa7tL34
Man? God?
September 28th, 2010
6:18 pm
Oh, you wrote it.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:18 pm
JAY
Don’t knock it, though…he got Dolley…not bad for a lil shrimp…
thomas
September 28th, 2010
6:19 pm
Jay
September 28th, 2010
5:59 pm
Johns Adams quote was exactly for that purpose, it was a defense of the U.S. Constitution
It was written for that exact purpose, hell even said it in the title.
A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America”, Vol. III, p. 217, from ‘The Right Constitution of a Commonwealth Examined’, Letter VI, (Philadelphia: William Young, 1797)
Or are we only allowed to use the Federalist Papers?
Or are you honestly telling me that you don’t think “A Defense of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America” is dealing with the Constitution?
ken R
September 28th, 2010
6:20 pm
I’m sure the Founding Fathers were all fair to their slaves, they are probably also rolling over in their graves when they see how many Congressmen we have in Washinghto, talk about feeding on the public teet.
thomas
September 28th, 2010
6:22 pm
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
6:17 pm
oh I wish my speakers worked….
Don’t be surprised…. way more of a 70s 80s music guy than most who meet me would assume.
That appears to be around the same genre and time span as much of the music i like….
We don’t have to agree we just have to respect each other….. a very wise man in my life told me that once and it applies to everything everyday.
getalife
September 28th, 2010
6:24 pm
It is a abuse of power but the gop civil war and shutting down the corporate welfare factory of the corrupt senate are good things.
CorpVet
September 28th, 2010
6:25 pm
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
6:17 pm
Classic indeed! One of Steely Dan’s best.
Mick
September 28th, 2010
6:28 pm
Jim Demint? Who does he stand for and what does he want? Hell hath no fury like a politician drunk with power. We’ve been through some bad stretches of politicians in this country, but the current crop on both sides is enough to make an honest man sell it all and go the jeremiah johnson route.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
6:29 pm
DAVE R…
Jay? Cherry pick? Hush yo mouth!
AmVet
September 28th, 2010
6:33 pm
thomas, great to hear.
My 27 year old son also knows and likes that old stuff, Beach Boys, Floyd, Dan, etc, etc, etc.
I’ve even got him to the point where he tolerates my musical muse, Todd Rundgren!
Agreed about the respect part. I don’t always practice what I preach, but given a chance, I can be pretty fair and pretty accommodating.
And I believe I can learn more from those who disagree with me than from those who don’t. And the fact remains, there are plenty of really good people here.
Because it soothes the savage breast…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC8_KGHbrOI