For Bishop Long, important words not yet spoken
Bishop Eddie Long stood in the pulpit Sunday morning, looked out over the thousands assembled to hear him speak, and talked of his congregation as a family that gave him great comfort in a time of pain.
Long also spoke fondly of other ministers — his sons and daughters, he called them — who had begun at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church and had left to their own congregations to return home in a show of support and solidarity.
Bishop Eddie Long speaks Sunday at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church. (AP)
Yet, after days of awkward silence, Long could not look the members of that family in the face and tell them plainly that he was innocent, that he had not engaged in sex with four young male church members who looked to him for guidance.
As the bishop explained to the congregation, he had been counseled by attorneys not to address the facts of the case.
“It will be tried in the court of justice and dealt with in the court of justice, and please understand, because that’s the only place I think I’ll get justice,” Long told the congregation.
There’s logic to that. Long is a smart man, and a smart man listens to his attorneys. But the bishop is also too smart to truly believe that this can be handled as merely a legal dispute.
Long’s own description of his congregation as a family makes that point all too well. His four accusers are — or were until recently — also members of “the New Birth family,” most of them since boyhood. They were drawn to the church seeking guidance and salvation, but now claim to have received something quite different from those they trusted.
In rallying so strongly to Long, the church is in effect turning its back on other members of its family who may have been victims of an awful betrayal. If we are not to judge Long guilty or innocent prematurely, it would seem important to give his accusers the same benefit of the doubt. Yet so far, based on no apparent investigation, the church seems ready to cast them aside as liars.
As family counselors and child-abuse specialists can testify, that’s not surprising. The dynamics at New Birth are painfully similar to those in families all across the country.
Set aside for the moment the question of guilt or innocence. Too often, when a younger, subordinate family member alleges abuse at the hands of an elder, the instinctive, self-protective reaction of other adults is to ignore it, to close eyes and ears and hearts to the claim and the claimant. It happens every day.
That is particularly true when the alleged abuser is the family breadwinner and authority figure, because the consequences of the charge being true are so explosive.
In a church as in a home, it can be far less painful to suppress the claim than to demand accountability from those with power.
That scenario is clearly playing out at New Birth. In remarks to the media Sunday, Long said that not only is he staying in the pulpit, he intends to increase his longstanding commitment to work with youth, both “young men and young ladies.” Apparently, no one in the church hierarchy is willing to tell Long that innocent or guilty, that is not a smart move.
It’s also important to point out that a courtroom victory or negotiated settlement may not be enough to allow Long to claim innocence on the larger charges against him.
In a courtroom, if you can’t argue the facts then you can at least argue the law. In this case, the civil case against Long depends heavily on the issue of coercion. If — and that little two-letter word remains powerfully important — if Long did indeed engage in sex with young men in his congregation, he could argue that they did so of their own free will and thus avoid being legally liable.
However, outside the courtroom, that kind of verdict would be hard to sell as vindication, even to the family at New Birth.
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396 comments Add your comment
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
RB from Gwinnett,
“They don’t extend the same “tolerance” to those who disagree with them they expect to get back in return.”
Yeah, Marie calling gay people perverts is real tolerant…
“that is why Christians like me who stand firmly opposed to the homosexual lifestyle consider you perverts.”
Doggone/GA
September 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
“I wonder how long that “submissive’ gene will last when her husband comes home drunk, acting stupid and demands sex?”
Well…she can always “Lie back and think of England”!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_back_and_think_of_England
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
12:35 pm
jm, I think we have lines crossed with marie. I cut and pasted her post and added my response. at this point, Long is not guilty of criminal activity (the lawsuits were filed in civil court, and as noted, thus far the all accusers are above the age of consent – 16, 17 & 18, I believe). I believe civil cases produce a “judgment” as opposed to “conviction” but if you go to my initial post, these are just lawyer-speak terms which allow people like Long to tap-dance around the truth and mask the true nature of his behavior. it’s like the whole “innocent until proven guilty” ruse. just because one is “presumed innocent” by the court does not imply or confirm innocence. a person is innocent or guilty of a crime when he she breaks the law, or does not break the law. the fact that it takes the cops and courts a couple weeks, months, years to present a case, does not change guilt or innocence.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:35 pm
Doggone/GA.
“Lie back and think of England” Hilarious!
DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
12:36 pm
Marie, Kudos for standing your ground with this Christian hater crowd. They don’t extend the same “tolerance” to those who disagree with them they expect to get back in return. For them, “tolerance” only applies to people they agree with.
Not true. We tolerate you and Whine and Scout and a whole bunch more with different views every day!! If you didn’t want someone to “debate” with, you’d be over there on Kyle’s blog with people of liked minds as yours yanking each other’s chain. So to speak.
Stuart L.
September 28th, 2010
12:36 pm
paleo neo-carlinist – well that’s your opinion and your entitled to it. but you just proved that you are just another secular conformist and most likely look to our poor excuse of a government as your savior. heck, you probably even believe that you are the descendant of a monkey. i don’t have to help my case, because i reserve the right granted to me by the constitution to say what i want when i want. something else the constitution affords us the right to a fair trial and to be believed innocent until proven guilty. i suggest that you brush up on that instead bashing Christians for their faith. you probably even support the mosque proposed to built at ground zero. i just love given enough rope, some people quickly just how ignorant and bigoted they are. you condemn because he has wealth, yet you support paying athletes 25 to 30 million a year to play ball, rape girls in a bar, drive drunk, and gamble on the sport they play and their still walking free without even a slap on the wrist. you approve of this and the country is going down the toilet daily. where are your priorities. you probably voted for obama too, how do you like your change now?
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
12:36 pm
DDR
“Debbie’s Definition of a “Homesexual Lifestyle”: A lifestyle where you get up early in the morning, go to work and pay taxes like everyone else.”
Oh, no! My CDGL (Certificate of Degree of Gay Lifestyle) Card has been rescinded. I didn’t get up and go to work today!
Not being a sorry-low-down-good-for-nothing, though. Got a doctor’s excuse…and my drugs are legal!
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:38 pm
DebbieDoRight,
“and that you should maintain your virginity (as I am doing) until you are married.
Yeah, i KNEW she/he wasn’t married!”
At least one person benefited from abstinence education…that was $1B well spent:
http://www.slate.com/id/2164742/
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
“where are your priorities. you probably voted for obama too, how do you like your change now?”
Obama is now responsible for salary caps and bad behavior by professional sports figures…sheesh.
Kamchak
September 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
…just another secular…
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
September 28th, 2010
12:43 pm
Hmmm, he could have stopped after the first and last words.
Obama: Democratic voter apathy ‘inexcusable’ or Obama: ‘inexcusable’
Can’t wait ’til November….mmm, mmm, mmm………
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
12:46 pm
jewcowboy
“Obama is now responsible for salary caps and bad behavior by professional sports figures…sheesh.”
That Obama is one badass mf!
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:47 pm
josef nix,
“Got a doctor’s excuse…and my drugs are legal!”
Lipitor doesn’t count
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:49 pm
josef nix,
“That Obama is one badass mf!”
Shut your mouth!
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
12:51 pm
DDR/jewcowboy
Maintains her virginity? Now by just which definition…to proclaim it or upkeep?
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
12:52 pm
jewcowboy
Gotta clean the screen! I got the Lipitor refilled with this mess of meds! You and Jay got access to my pharmacy account?
Marie
September 28th, 2010
12:53 pm
Ummm…maybe b/c the accusers are male and not female? The self-loathing gay man charge wouldn’t “stick” so to speak if he was not having gay sex…
While I do believe that Eddie Long is gay — I do not believe he is a self-loathing gay man because he led an anti-gay march and has used his pulpit to speak out against gays. Eddie Long is a DECEIVER plain and simple. He needed to speak out against homosexuality because he wanted his members and specifically the parents of these young men to trust him with their sons. The whole body building, hip-hop schlick, and “I love my wife” talk in the pulpit was done to portray himself as a bona fide heterosexual. If he acted like a gay man it is highly unlikely that these mothers would have allowed their young sons to hang out with him. And his act of deception is proved in his attempts to convince these young men that they were not engaging in “sex” but it was simply him releasing his passion or anointing on them. And then using the word of God to make it good and right is even further dispicable.
And Debbie-Do-Right — sorry missy I don’t drink or smoke either so I would NEVER marry a man who drinks or smoke so the husband coming home drunk and demanding sex that won’t be happening. And you know since I am a virgin if I ever get a marry I doubt if my husband will ever have to demand sex (if you know what I mean — LOL!!!).
DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
12:54 pm
Got a doctor’s excuse…and my drugs are legal!
Yeah that’s what you ALL say!
RB from Gwinnett
September 28th, 2010
12:56 pm
“please refer me to the Article or Amendment in the Constitution, which prohibits the POTUS from sex out of wedlock?”
If you need to see it written in the constitution to know it’s wrong, there is no hope for you. That has to be one of the silliest cop-outs I’ve ever seen on the subject. Go hang out on the funny papers blog if that’s all you’ve got. Geez…
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
12:59 pm
MArie,
“I do not believe he is a self-loathing gay man because he led an anti-gay march and has used his pulpit to speak out against gays.”
That is the very description of a self-loathing gay man.
“If he acted like a gay man it is highly unlikely that these mothers would have allowed their young sons to hang out with him”
I’m just going out on limb here and say you’ve not been around very many gay people. Oh, I know, one is a cousin or a friend or something, y’all always say that. B/c quite frankly if you had been around gay people for any amount of time, you would realize how stunningly obtuse your statement truly is.
Swede Atlanta
September 28th, 2010
1:01 pm
Marie,
You are absolutely right that had the accuers been women we would not be challenging him for his hypocrisy for preaching against adultery and fornication.
Why is that? It is because society has essentially accepted adultery and fornication as givens and no longer view them with stigma. While we might privately chastize the adulterer for violation of his or her marriage vows, there is little public outcry.
But people such as yourself still stigmatize and demonize “gays” by claiming them to be perverse. So at the same time the good preacher was joining the demonization chorus he was allegedly engaging in the very things he publicly opposed.
It is the double standard as much as the hypocrisy that is an issue for me here.
And just asking, what do you do for fun?
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
1:02 pm
josef nix,
“You and Jay got access to my pharmacy account? ”
I accessed it from the email I sent you, for you see I am Abdul Razak Bin Ahmad, an attorney at law.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
1:03 pm
Stuart L.
paleo neo-carlinist – well that’s your opinion and your entitled to it. but you just proved that you are just another secular conformist and most likely look to our poor excuse of a government as your savior.
most definitely “secular” but more non-conformist. can you read, Stuart? my point in introducing the church and state concept is my belief that most Americans “look to the government as a savior” with the same ignorance that people of faith look to a bearded man in the sky as a savior.
heck, you probably even believe that you are the descendant of a monkey. technically (actually, genetically) homo sapiens share common anscestors with primates (elitist word for “monkeys”). it’s called DNA and if we use it to convict rapists and murderers in court, and put these people to death, we have to acknowledge the link between homo sapiens and primates.
i don’t have to help my case, because i reserve the right granted to me by the constitution to say what i want when i want. – of course you have the right to speak you mind. just like Eddie Long (and Marie).
something else the constitution affords us the right to a fair trial and to be believed innocent until proven guilty.
not according to Amendment VI (capital/infamous crimes) – “the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed.” does your copy of the Constitution contain the words “presumed innocent” or “innocent until proved guilty”?
how about civil court? Ammendment VII – “In suits of Common Law,where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved.” – does your copy of the Constitution contain the word “fair”? mine does not. and I can tell you, as the veteran of many “suits where the value in controversey exceeded $20″ there ain’t no such thing as a “fair trial”.
i suggest that you brush up on that instead bashing Christians for their faith. – see above Stuart. I think you need to stop bashing secular non-conformists, and brush up on your Civics 101.
you probably even support the mosque proposed to built at ground zero. -I neither support it, nor oppose it. I think the First Amendment (I just brushed up on it) has the final say. at the very least, the NYC Zoning Board, city council, or whatever have the final say.
i just love given enough rope, some people quickly just how ignorant and bigoted they are. – couldn’t agree more. and by “ignorant” you mean lacking a grasp of the facts, right?
you condemn because he has wealth, yet you support paying athletes 25 to 30 million a year to play ball, rape girls in a bar, drive drunk, and gamble on the sport they play and their still walking free without even a slap on the wrist. – let me channel Kamchack. please show me where I condemned Long “because he has wealth”? please show me where I “support paying athletes $25 – $30 million… yada, yada, yada.”
you approve of this and the country is going down the toilet daily.
the country is most certainly circling the drain, but I didn’t pull the lever to flush (but if I understand your analogy, you believe “the country” is sh*t?).
where are your priorities. you probably voted for obama too, how do you like your change now? – my prioroties are in self-improvement and a profound distrust of any politician, member of the media or clergy. I have NEVER voted for a democrat (or a republican – except Ron Paul, when he ran as a Libertarian in ‘88). I no longer vote, period. it is the ultimate expression of the masturbatory nature of “hope and change” (which, by the way, was Reagan’s message in ‘80 – “it’s morning in America? are you better off now than you were in 1976?” ALL politicians (and preachers) invoke images of hope and change. now, go home and get you shine box!
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DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
1:05 pm
i just love given enough rope, some people quickly just how ignorant and bigoted they are. you condemn because he has wealth, yet you support paying athletes 25 to 30 million a year to play ball, rape girls in a bar, drive drunk, and gamble on the sport they play and their still walking free without even a slap on the wrist. you approve of this and the country is going down the toilet daily. where are your priorities
Stuart – since I’ve “known” paleo longer than you, i can honestly say that that crap you posted above is nothing more than bushsh##t! How very TOLERANT of you to determine someone’s priorities without even knowing them nor having had more than a brief “conversation” with them. Good Job!!! You’ve just won the “Most Imbecilic Comment Of The Day Award!!” And that’s some feat, usually that award is reserved for Whine and you beat him out. Priceless.
Definition of Imbecilic: Having a mental age of 3 to 7 years old.
BADA BING
September 28th, 2010
1:07 pm
josef, you didn’t get your CDGL online did you?
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:08 pm
jewcowboy
She HAS been around gay people, she just didn’t know it…they wern’t shaking boas and saying girlfriend!
And I’m going to go out on a limb even further than you, Marie is the prime victim for the closeted homosexual out to present an image…before she gets married, she might make an appointment with her hairdresser to talk about, well, what she can expect if she’s not careful…
BADA BING
September 28th, 2010
1:11 pm
I heard that Da Bishop called the young men to apologize and they said he could ‘Kiss their a$$es’! So it looks like they are going to settle out of court.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
1:11 pm
josef nix,
“She HAS been around gay people, she just didn’t know it…they wern’t shaking boas and saying girlfriend! ”
Don’t forget the glitter and anonymous sex in public restrooms…
“she might make an appointment with her hairdresser to talk about, well, what she can expect if she’s not careful…”
Naw..she’s already bought a copy of Nailin’ Palin…
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
1:12 pm
BADA BING @ 1.11,
WOW! I just nearly fell out of my chair laughing
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:13 pm
BADA BING
There’s this little boutique on West Peachtree… those that Abdul Razak Bin Ahmad, an attorney at law, is offering are cheap imitation copies…
Paulo977
September 28th, 2010
1:13 pm
josef re:”homosexual lifestyle”???In a way this statement is at the heart of our total ignorance about human beings and the variation in needs , interests, abilities , contribution to the mosaic of life and I could go on and on …Why are people so shackled by fear that they cannot live and let live?
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:15 pm
BADA BING
@ 1:11
I don’t care who you are, thass funny!
jm
September 28th, 2010
1:16 pm
Marie, I think you’re reverse sexist, or something like that. If he molested women, he’d be in hot water too. The brunt of fewer jokes? Yes, but he’d still be a hypocrite and headed to jail.
http://www.theitem.com/news/article_1cea60a5-fa6f-5ea3-be85-269af8605a58.html
jm
September 28th, 2010
1:17 pm
I think Marie might be a troll….
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
1:18 pm
RB from Gwinnett,
“If you need to see it written in the constitution to know it’s wrong, there is no hope for you. ”
So the Senate is now the morality police for the Presidency…interesting.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:19 pm
PAULO
@ 1:13
“Why are people so shackled by fear that they cannot live and let live?”
I would posit it’s because they’re afraid they might get treated the way they’ve been treating “them” if they truly let go…
jm
September 28th, 2010
1:19 pm
In other gay news – Barney Frank is a Closet Subprime Housing Lover
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/barney_new_excuse_xr9UKP7eqW0PmiFRWJrtlK
DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
1:21 pm
Marie: Eddie Long is a DECEIVER plain and simple. He needed to speak out against homosexuality because he wanted his members and specifically the parents of these young men to trust him with their sons.
Hmmm I never though of it like that……could be something to that……
And Debbie-Do-Right — sorry missy I don’t drink or smoke either so I would NEVER marry a man who drinks or smoke so the husband coming home drunk and demanding sex that won’t be happening. And you know since I am a virgin if I ever get a marry I doubt if my husband will ever have to demand sex (if you know what I mean — LOL!!!).
Marie, one quick note about men, when you meet them they are perfect, when they want you they NEVER do any of things that you loathe, once he marries you and are comfortable with you, the real him comes out. Sorta like the woman who gains lots of weight after she says “I Do”. PS: I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you though, good luck with the never marrying…blah, blah, blah. I hope it works for you. PSS: About the demanding sex part, he never having to…blah,blah,blah….good luck with that one too!
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:21 pm
jm
Marie a troll? Hmmm, Andy’s been fired due to Jay’s cutbacks, but then here comes Marie and Andy IS a lesbian, you know…just the facts here, draw your own conclusions!
godless heathen
September 28th, 2010
1:23 pm
Off topic: Report says gap between rich and poor widening.
The slackers aren’t keeping up.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:25 pm
DDR
One of my aunts, the loose caboose, said “well you may buy a pair of shoes without trying them on, but it don’t make no sense to me when there’s a no return rider on the bill of sale.”
jm
September 28th, 2010
1:25 pm
josef nix –
one has to wonder
jm
September 28th, 2010
1:27 pm
godless heathen – “The slackers aren’t keeping up.”
There’s a sad element of truth to that sarcastic statement. Reference focus on STEM education, graduation rates, etc.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
1:27 pm
josef nix, so which aunt are talking about; Newt or Rush?
Don't Forget
September 28th, 2010
1:29 pm
jm
September 28th, 2010
11:56 am
“The share of national income held by the top 1 percent of American families has doubled in recent decades to 20 percent. That’s a huge shift”
Good article but the take home is that for capitalism to work at it’s best and create the most wealth you need to pay your employees because they are also your customers. The more the top takes the more we head in the direction of feudalism.
DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
1:31 pm
josef nix, so which aunt are talking about; Newt or Rush?
Karl of course!! (snap!) (shake boa) (snap again!)
Q
September 28th, 2010
1:34 pm
What I don’t get is the low expections that the New Birth family has of their leaders. Standing behind your leader is one thing, but blind loyalty is another. How on God’s earth can they just stand so steadfastly behind a man and not demand anything from him? I honestly don’t get it.
I am of the Pentecostal faith, and I will tell you that if my pastor was accused of something like this, I would demand that he provide some kind of context around this. If he said to the congregation ‘I am not a homosexual. I have never participated in any homosexual activities.’ or something concrete like that….I would be behind him 100%. But, if, as my leader, he could not stand before me and give me something concrete to believe in, there is no way I would support him.
Pastors and spiritual leaders have a duty to be forthcoming and truthful to their congregation…..ESPECIALLY if he/she hasn’t done anything wrong. People look up to their church pastors…they entrust these men/women with helping to guide them on their spiritual journey. There is no way a pastor should have his flock hanging on like this.
And for an entire church to blindly follow a leader who cannot be forthcoming and truthful to them is sickening to me!
Brad
September 28th, 2010
1:34 pm
The four young men in the lawsuits are so HOT they’ll melt your Popsicle! And they must be Bishop’s type because they look alike!
Bishop Eddie Long really GROOMED them…
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
1:36 pm
paleo
Would that either of these two aunties had half that ole broad’s class! She’s the one who took me when I was 10 down to Bourbon Street to watch the naked lady swing out over the street. When Mama found out, she was scandalized. Tante Mabel’s response? “Well, Jeanne-Marie, the boy’s got to learn. You don’t want him to grow up to be a pervert, do you?”
Marcos
September 28th, 2010
1:42 pm
New Birth is NOT a church… it is nothing more than a cult of personality built around a pedophile.
godless heathen
September 28th, 2010
1:50 pm
“There’s a sad element of truth to that sarcastic statement. ”
Wasn’t being sarcastic.
BADA BING
September 28th, 2010
1:54 pm
Some people are OK with the homosexual issue, some don’t care about the ages of the boys involved, some are OK with him cheating on his wife, children, and congregation. You can have your opinion. But if you think that there is NOTHING wrong with his behavior, then my friend, you had better seek help from a mental health expert.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
1:56 pm
Marcos, you need to tweak your scorecard. according to the O.C.G.A., he is not a pedophile. were his companions under the age of 14 (age of consent?) he would be both a pedophile AND child molester. outside of the law, most of us consider him to be a conflicted, sel-loathing homosexual (not that there is anything wrong with it). were I a Christian, I’d pray for him, but I am not, so I will just judge him harshly and make jokes about his duplicity.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
2:02 pm
“were I a Christian, I’d pray for him, but I am not, so I will just judge him harshly and make jokes about his duplicity.”
BADA BING
September 28th, 2010
2:03 pm
I wonder if any of the boys were Black Panters? (no mispelling)
Mick
September 28th, 2010
2:11 pm
rb
You would have made a good pilgrim or puritan. Those who were in on the impeachment of clinton ended up being the very definition of hypocrite.
Marie
September 28th, 2010
2:15 pm
Jewcowboy — You misread my post; I do not believe Eddie Long loathes himself — I think he is love with all 5′ 5″ of himself. The man is a deceiver and he preached against homosexuality because he is personally against it but because he wanted to deceive his congregation and more importantly the young men he victimized. And my statement is obtuse — really?? I am a black woman and I CANNOT think of one black woman who would willingly let her young son hang out with a 57 year old gay man. Even if they knew their teenage son was gay they would not want them hanging around a man that much older then them but would want them in a age appropriate gay relationship.
Swede Atlanta — If Eddie Long as a married man was coercing teenaged girls who have bypassed the state’s legal age into sexual relations I would consider this perversion. If he was a single 50 something year old man coercing teenaged girls into sexual relations I would consider this perversion. I guess I did not artfully phrase my original point — it is the AGE difference and the alleged coercion and acts of deception that I find truly disgusting. And it is sad that too many folks are focusing on homophobia instead of the fact that these boys were too young to enter into a consensual relationship with a man this old and one who had a powerful influence in their lives by the very nature of his position. Instead I often read in some blogs people taking up for him and saying that these young men were of legal age so it was okay and for anyone who thinks that I find that perverse.
If Eddie Long was carrying on an affair with a consenting adult (similar to Ted Haggard) although I would state his actions were wrong (because I do not believe in homosexuality) it would not offend me as much because I really could careless what 2 consenting adults do in their own bed. Let me be clear I DO NOT HATE homosexuals and yeah JewCowboy I do have cousins, friends, co-workers, etc., who are homosexuals. I do not hang out with them or talk with them about their lifestyle but I also do not delve into the intimate details of the lives of heterosexuals I know. As I stated I could care less what consenting adults do — if that’s your thing go for it.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
2:27 pm
Marie,
“I do not believe Eddie Long loathes himself ”
The fact that if he is guilty of this, and he has chosen to live a duplicitous life epitomizes self-loathing.
Of course he probably stays in the closet b/c of obtuse statements like this, “am a black woman and I CANNOT think of one black woman who would willingly let her young son hang out with a 57 year old gay man.”
Or course the reason why many gay black men hide in the closet and stay on the down low, catch HIV and pass it onto women, either that or choose to blow their brains out, is because they have to live with ignorant bigots like yourself. Not every gay man wants to have sex with every other man on the face of the earth, just like not every straight man wants to sleep with every woman on the face of the earth.
Actually the more you write the more I’ve come to realize you don’t necessarily have problems with gay men, you seem to have difficulties understanding all men.
DebbieDoRight
September 28th, 2010
2:27 pm
Marcos, you need to tweak your scorecard. according to the O.C.G.A., he is not a pedophile. were his companions under the age of 14 (age of consent?) he would be both a pedophile AND child molester
He’s a pederast.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
2:29 pm
And Marie,
“I do not hang out with them or talk with them about their lifestyle but I also do not delve into the intimate details of the lives of heterosexuals I know.”
You’ve still not explained what you mean by “lifestyle”.
Swede Atlanta
September 28th, 2010
2:52 pm
Marie, you and I are in complete agreement with regard to the issue of coercion by a person of confidence and authority usurping that position to gain some form of benefit (sex, money, etc.) from someone who looks to him/her as a reference figure. While agen is a factor I don’t believe that the prohibition against such abuse of position should be limited to situations where age is a factor (not to mention sex or sexual orientation). A boy scout leader age 19 could just as easily usurp that position with a 17 or 18 year old boy scout who looked up to the leader for inspiration, confided to him in confidence, etc.
The other point, however, that I think you missed in my post was my response to your assertion that had these been girls rather than boys there wouldn’t be the level of outcry as to his hypocrisy. If I understood it correctly your assertion was that his hypocrisy was an issue because it involved homosexual conduct against his public anti-gay rhetoric but wouldn’t have been had it been heterosexual conduct against his anti-adultery and anti-fornication rhetoric.
My theory on this is that the hypocrisy as to homosexuals and homosexual conduct is an issue because his opposition fuels and supports the continued stigmatization and demonization of homosexuals. This is compared against the fact that society in general does not stigmatize adulterers (look at our adulterous politicians that are not sanctioned by voters) and fornicators. The impact of his hypocrisy against gays is more hurtful because it supports public stigmatization and demonization.
Jay
September 28th, 2010
2:52 pm
No, they didn’t.
From the same source you quoted:
“Yes, a big part of that decline results from the recession that eroded incomes, especially from capital gains. But there is also little doubt that some rich people moved out or filed their taxes in other states with lower burdens. One-in-eight millionaires who filed a Maryland tax return in 2007 filed no return in 2008. Some died, but the others presumably changed their state of residence.”
And how many NEW filers with million-dollar incomes replaced those who fell off for whatever reason? How much of that is just natural ebb and flow, dying etc.?
As to your New Jersey example: Rich people move from there to Florida for a LOT of reasons that have nothing to do with taxes.
Marie
September 28th, 2010
2:56 pm
JewCowboy you are much too uptight to be objective because you cannot get beyond the fact that I do not agree with homosexuality and by your own admission you are a homosexual so you’re offended. I will be the very first to admit that I am not up on the latest lingo of modern culture and who hangs out with whom. But sorry I just don’t know of any mother who would approve of her daughter or son hanging around a 50 somethin year old man or woman. Most people that I know have age appropriate relationships.
And sorry how I feel or don’t feel about homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with black men who are on the down low or in the closet. Each person is accountable for his/her own life and how they live it with integrity. So for any black man to blame the black church for their decision to go on the down low or remain in the closet is just simply cowardness and nothing else. If you have the freedom to make that choice (which you do) then you also have the same freedom to make that choice known and suffer the consequences whatever they maybe. I suffer just as much backlash or more in the black community for being a conservative but it doesn’t stop me from being what I am.
And there are probably just as many men of all races who are on the down low or in the closet and it has nothing to do with the black church or me. But because a black gay man wrote a book and went of Oprah talking about this in the black community folks like you want to make being on the down low a black thing. There are plenty who are out of the closet and trust me sir I DO NOT preach to them about their life decision (since I cannot say lifestyle) because again I could careless.
Marie
September 28th, 2010
3:05 pm
SwedeAtlanta do we even know if Eddie Long is still preaching against homosexuality? I am not an Eddie Long follower so I have no idea what the man is currently teaching in his church. But the incident that the media keeps referring to is a march he held in 2004 against gay marriage and some homosexual cleansing program that was once promoted in his church. The march was 6 years ago and people do evolve and/or change their opinions on these issues all the time. In the past he has also spoken out against abortion but he also supports Democratic candidates who believe in abortion.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
3:13 pm
DDR, you are correct, he’s a Pederast. jewcowboy, I just saw the “no criminal charges” headline, which means this will be a “he said/he said” case to determine if Long is a full-time homosexual, or if he “outsources” his gayness – which is akin to taking jobs away from real (openly gay) American homosexuals, isn’t it? I think it will tough to prove “coercion” what with this being a church issue and the “age of consent” aspect. if any of the accusers were church employees, it might stray into employment law, but this is gonna be interesting.
Swede Atlanta
September 28th, 2010
3:23 pm
Marie,
Whether he does currently speak against homosexuals or not is really a moot point. He has in the past and I doubt he has had a conversion. It does happen but it is very rare.
What does it mean for a Democratic candidates to “believe in abortion”. What does that mean? Is that the same as believing in God or Santa Claus?
I think we can all “believe” in abortion because it actually exists. It does happen each and every day. Even you “believe” in abortion.
But to the point. No Democrat has ever “promoted” abortion or “pushed” abortion or any other term the righties and fundies use.
It is really a question of choice versus anti-choice not pro-abortion and anti-abortion.
“Pro” implies someone who actively promotes something. No Democrat “promotes” abortion (as a means of birth control). Pro-choice individuals believe that abortion should be legal, safe and available. They don’t run around crying “Get your abortion here…let’s hurry up and everyone get an abortion”.
I think we can all agree that as a society we have a problem with unwanted pregnancies. The question is what do we do to prevent them in the first place (abstinence versus effective birth control) and what to do when, for whatever reason (rape, birth control failure, etc.) an unwanted pregnancy occurs.
As a Christian, but foremost someone who values all life (human and animal), I would oppose an abortion if I found myself the father of an unplanned or unwanted child. I would try all avenues to bring the life into this world. But I am pro-choice and believe that decision is intensely personal and should be left to the putative father and mother.
lady j
September 28th, 2010
3:24 pm
very well said and very sad to think about. i was molested as a child and you r absolutely right
Marie
September 28th, 2010
3:37 pm
Real cute SwedeAtlanta but you know exactly what I mean when I refer to someone who has an anti-abortion viewpoint and a Democrat who is for abortion or pro-choice as you prefer to call it. I simply bring that up because some individuals could view that as also being hypocritical or doing something which is in opposition to a viewpoint that you have stated. However, Eddie Long has also had Republican candidates or politicians at his church too. And in all honesty I just see him as a man without any real convictions and will go whichever way the wind is blowing. Whether or not he has publicly changed his viewpoints on homosexuality I cannot say but it would not surprise me in the least if in the future he does just that.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
3:49 pm
Marie,
“But sorry I just don’t know of any mother who would approve of her daughter or son hanging around a 50 somethin year old man or woman. ”
So no mother would let their daughter or son hang out with an uncle or aunt, or even a grandparent who might be gay? What about the gay parents of kids, whom the black community turned their backs on?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0923/Florida-ban-on-gay-adoption-unconstitutional-court-rules
“I suffer just as much backlash or more in the black community for being a conservative but it doesn’t stop me from being what I am.”
Yes..people will beat you up and kill you for being a “conservative” just like they will for being gay. And yes even threatened by your own Senators staff:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/24/chambliss-office-source-of-anti-gay-comment/
ken R
September 28th, 2010
3:56 pm
I think before all is said and done many more young men will be coming forth about their being suckered in ” no pun intended ” by Long. I will also bet that a lot of them will be underage.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
4:01 pm
Marie,
“There are plenty who are out of the closet and trust me sir I DO NOT preach to them about their life decision”
So when did you choose to be straight…exactly when did you make that decision?
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
4:02 pm
RB, didn’t see your rebuttal. if not the Constitution, where do we find the “code of conduct” for elected officals? the Bible? the Koran? Dr. Suess books? all you clowns like to yammer about how Clinton was impeached and found guilty of perjury (subject to the law), but you then suggest there is an alternate source of law. Stuart used the phrases “presumed innocent until proved guilty” and “fair trial” and NEITHER is a “right” as stated in the Constitution. likewise, Clinton’s extramarital activity was not illegal. one might believe it to be immoral or unethical, but morality and ethics are subjective concepts and not akin to the law. now you go home and get your shine box!
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
4:04 pm
I can’t speak for Marie, but it would appear Eddie Long makes the decision to be straight on Sundays, but the other six days is a “gametime decision”.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
4:15 pm
Before all this broke, I had never really heard of Eddie Long. To say I know anything about who is telling the truth and who isn’t. would just be plain silly.
I’ll just wait for things to play out in court and hope that true justice is served, where ever those chips might fall. There’ll be plenty of time to hang the guilty party(s), later.
Having been raised in the Baptist church, I will say that Long is the first Baptist I’ve ever heard of that carried the title, Bishop. Maybe there have been others but I’m not aware of it.
jewcowboy
September 28th, 2010
4:20 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe,
“Having been raised in the Baptist church, I will say that Long is the first Baptist I’ve ever heard of that carried the title, Bishop”
Or an iPad…
hotwire
September 28th, 2010
4:45 pm
It just boggles the mind how fragile is the faith of some of these people that they conjure up the most bizarre conspiracy theories to protect their wayward “pastor.” It’s the boys who need compassion and understanding, not that blowhard pervert who calls himself a “bishop” no less. give me a friggin break.
Marie
September 28th, 2010
4:51 pm
Oh you mean like the black conservative who was beaten up at a townhall meeting for expressing his opinion about the health care plan. So yeah black conservatives do suffer name calling and beatings.
And by hanging out I do not mean an older adult occasionally talking with a young person, being a mentor and just having casual conversations with them. By hanging out I am referring to what Eddie Long is reported to have been doing in which he is working out with these young men, taking them out of town, buying them gifts, showing up at their place, etc. Most parents would draw a line if an adult was showing this much attention to their child but he was able to hide behind his office as a Bishop.
And as a Christian I believe we’re all born in sin and you make the decision as to whether or not you practice sin or live a life of Godliness. As a heterosexual I have chosen to abstain from sex until I marry although I could very well choose to sin and commit fornication with a man. And since I believe that homosexuality is a sin as is fornication or adultery — a person therefore has a choice as to whether or not he/she will commit that sin.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
5:07 pm
who left Wyld Byll’s cage open? Bylly boy, there is no “innocent verdict” in a civil case, but enjoy your freedom. seems to me the exact post was “vanquished” just after noon. Hillbilly D, there are no “fair trials” and while the preamble of the Constitution cites the intent to “establish Justice” – “justice” is not a guarantee. that said, should this mess go to trial, it will be like a good ‘ol fashion, nasty divorce. come to think of it, maybe this is a legal trojan horse to advance the cause of same-sex marriage (this will be a de facto “same sex divorce”). of course, without a smoking gun (stained dress) it will be tough to prove there was sex involved (you think BJ has some dna evidence?).
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 28th, 2010
5:12 pm
paleo
I said, I hope that justice would be served. Didn’t say that it, necessarily, will be.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
September 28th, 2010
5:48 pm
Hillilly, fair enough. but you better watch your use of the word “hope”….
Ncoms
September 28th, 2010
7:23 pm
there can be some charges filed against a person if the non-profit money is used for personal gain. That is a felony. So let us not be too quick to say that there will not be any criminal charges because the government is sitting back waiting to see what is going to have with an already ongoing investigation as well as the outcome of this civil suit, whether it is settled by the defendant or won by the plaintiff, either of these two can cause criminal charges to be filed against the defendant.
Ncoms
September 28th, 2010
7:28 pm
It is just better to do the right thing and let God figure it out and work it out, then you know you will be a winner. When you do the wrong thing, trying to figure it out yourself and work it out yourself, because if it is evil you reap what you sow and if it is criminal you usally make a mistake somewhere down the line if you keep it up and end up in legal situations.
Ncoms
September 28th, 2010
7:33 pm
I never did get any response from anyone regarding the questions about whether or not you are under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Let’s blog about it. Because this thing could go on for a long time so let’s use some of this time shedding a little light on some things if you don’t mind conversing with a non mega.
Ncoms
September 28th, 2010
8:24 pm
Question. Do men feel justified to sin because of what David did in the Bible? David sinned and remained King, but his life was miserable because he was cursed by God with his life being threaten even by his own family. David life was miserable, especially after he counted the men because he wanted to see how many men he had and how powerful he was to have such enormous amount of men under his leadership. God told David that he did not tell him to count the men and this made David seem as if he was God to the people and not God. Just like Moses did when God told him to speak to the rock on the second occasion when water came from the rock, but Moses spoke to the people and hit the rock out of anger and frustration, of which he had when he killed the Egyptian, I know God told him to hit the rock the first time, but Moses had to provide water for the people a second time where he was suppose to speak to the rock, you have to read it to see it. Moses could not go over into the promised earthly land because of his disobedience just like David could not complete the building of the temple as God had initially ordained him to. Just like Adam and Eve caused Sin and eternal death to come on us, the Bible says by one man so actually it was not Eve, but Adam because nothing happened until Adam ate, because God did not command the woman, he only commanded the man not to eat of the forbidden fruit. I would say that I would not want to commit any sins because of what David did because you have to read the whole story to see the results of David’s sin and determine if this is the life that you want to live after the sin. We have to start reading the word for ourselves and going to Bible study because Oral, passed on by word of mouth, especially when you want to control people are the tactics that you use to keep them in the dark and under your influence. Read Exodus about Moses, Genesis about Adam and Kings about David. Love you with the Love of the Lord and remember, be in the World and not of the world, if you are saved don’t do the things that unsaved people in order to have a lifestyle of sin, but have a lifestyle of faith to trust God to lead you in the path of righteousness, live sanctified and set apart from sinners. The Bible says that a little wine is good for the settlement of the stomach, but don’t deal in drunkeness and don’t deal with drunkards.
Ncoms
September 28th, 2010
8:30 pm
Remember this, whenever you hear someone, usually a man, mention David when they are defending a negative accusation, especially one about sex, they are trying to remind you of David’s sin and how he kept his throne. And for people who have not studied for themselves to know how David suffer because of his sinful acts, that is a sure way for a sinner to keep them fooled and under his or her control.
Connie Moore
September 29th, 2010
3:58 am
Jay, you are so right on the money with this editorial. I commend you for getting it right. All of your points are dead on. I am so happy that you have spoken on this issue with such clarity. Keep up the good work.
Connie Moore,
Decatur
DJ
September 29th, 2010
10:02 am
I watched the video last night of Jamal Parris speaking about Bishop Long and it seemed EXTREMELY credible. Also sad. But the interesting part was watching the live video of members of New Birth Church after THEY watched the video of Jamal. THAT is the video to see.
In case you haven’t seen it yet, here’s the link: http://tinyurl.com/3748cal
Valerie Shaw
September 29th, 2010
4:31 pm
Jay’s take is spot on; there is no good end to this story. The only good thing is that it could bring other victims of pulpit abuse forward. Don Lemon, for instance, the distinguished CNN anchor, confessed on camera this past Saturday that he’d been sexually assaulted by a trusted authority figure when he was young. He said that he didn’t even know why he was admitting it – it just came out. I’m just wondering if, as alledged, Bishop Long’s behavior was known to others within the New Birth family and Bishop Long is one of the most influential pastors in the Western World, could it be that it’s not just Catholic prients who violate children? Just wondering.
Sallysue
September 30th, 2010
9:23 pm
Anyone who looks deeply into the eyes of Parris, his accuser will see there is pain and truth… he has challenged Bishop Long to look him in the eyes and tell him that all he says is not true…. the ball’s in your court Bishop Long… look this young man in his eyes and let’s see who speaks the truth…
john
October 1st, 2010
3:14 am
Jamal Parris Speaks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI0o4YNzMrU
Words still unspoken by Independent Baptist Eddie Long « BaptistPlanet
October 1st, 2010
12:37 pm
[...] Words still unspoken by Independent Baptist Eddie Long For Eddie Long, whatever remains in his metaphoric sack of rocks, important words remain unspoken. Jay Bookman of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes: [...]
Rob
October 1st, 2010
8:21 pm
I suspect that even if it is proven that he had sex with those kids, he’ll come up with some silver-tongued explanation, and the sheeple in his church will put it behind them and keep giving him their money, in effect allowing him to live the gold-plated lifestyle that they aspire to but can’t afford. Strange dynamic.
Utah
October 2nd, 2010
2:43 am
They need to sit him down period !!!!!! I left a church because the Pastor was having sex with every woman he could find and it left the church broken and all the time he stayed at the pulpit and it was so gross and nasty to believe anything of God was coming out of his mouth.I believe that the money and power go to there heads and they get the star power where no one and tell them no and then the put Gods name on it. Shame on the men of God to use people!! Come judgement day I know we will get our justice Amen
Stephanie Kansas
October 2nd, 2010
11:03 am
If these allegations are in fact true, and hopefully they are not. It is yet another example of how ALL Gods children receive His love and that indeed Gays can preach with fire and conviction just as anyone else. God bless,
Stephanie.
Harold Martin
October 3rd, 2010
4:40 pm
Can’t wait to get this guy on my site (if he’s found guilty): ihatehypocrites.com
cjl
October 3rd, 2010
5:25 pm
it’s a shame that’s he’s been doing young boys 4 quite awhile now…these 4 who have decided 2 come forth r the 1st of the many that were afraid, embarrassed, or paid off n the past. U can c the guilt n shame all over Long’s face esp. the 1st Sun he addressed his church…but no sympathy can compensate 4 the warnings he rec’d from his own conscience… n yes, i guess that’s what u become when u don’t restrain yourself – a “monster.” He will neither fall n2 suicide or salvation, i hope the latter…..