Israel lifts ban on settlement growth, killing peace hopes that were long dead anyway
I’ve been deeply pessimistic about the Obama administration’s efforts at peacemaking in the Middle East, and indeed about the prospects of peace in general. By every indication, any chance of a workable two-state solution ended years ago, thanks largely to the continued expansion of West Bank settlements. Today, even if Palestinian leaders were miraculously awarded the courage and authority needed to make a deal with Israel, the “facts on the ground” on the wrong side of the Green Line would make such an agreement impossible.
Which is exactly what they were intended to do.
This week, Israel threw a little more dirt on the coffin when it ended its 10-month moratorium on settlement construction. The decision probably means the end of peace talks with the Palestinians and further strains Israeli relations with the United States and other countries, but to Israel those are small prices to pay .
David Newman, professor of political geography at Ben-Gurion University and editor of the International Journal of Geopolitics, expresses my pessimism eloquently in a new piece in the Jerusalem Post:
“There has been an important change in the way the settler population, along with many Israelis, views the role of settlements in a peace agreement. It is clear that the critical mass, the number that would make it almost impossible for any government – even one on the extreme Left – to evacuate the entire population has been long passed. Even allowing for a redrawing of the border involving the swap of territories and the inclusion of large settlement blocs within Israel, there will still be between 60,000 and 100,000 settlers on the Palestinian side of the line. Not only is this number significantly larger than the mere 7,000 of Gush Katif who were evacuated in 2005, it also comprises the ideological hard core of settlers in such places as Kedumim, Elon Moreh, Shiloh, Eli and Ofra (to name but a few), whose opposition to evacuation will be much stronger than those living in larger urban settlements close to the Green Line, such as Betar Illit, Alfei Menashe and perhaps even Ariel, who could have been bought out for adequate compensation.
More significantly, there has been a change in the way many now view the time factor. In the past, time was always perceived as being on the side of the Palestinians. They could simply play the waiting game while their own population, spurred by natural growth, increased much more rapidly than that of the settlers.
In demographic terms, this is still true. But the settlers have realized that if, since the signing of the Oslo agreements, their own population has more than doubled, it is no longer the demographic ratio between the two populations (which will always be in favor of the Palestinians), but the absolute numbers that make it increasingly difficult for a government to implement another forced evacuation.
They understand that every additional house, family and road make a peace agreement less plausible.
… Life will continue as normal. Settlements will expand. Palestinians will, once again, seek violent forms of resistance. The government will clamp down and pursue stronger security measures and curfews.
Back to square one. No settlement freeze, no significant peace talks. All of us, Israelis and Palestinians alike, will suffer the consequences.
In the long run, I fear, the consequences mentioned by Newman will be far more profound for Israel than for the Palestinians.
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170 comments Add your comment
jm
September 27th, 2010
5:17 pm
People should stop wasting the time and effort on two groups of people who are determined not to get along. 10 million people and 10,000 square miles are not worth the diplomatic and military costs.
The Palestinian issue is a straw man kind of issue for undemocratic Arab states with disaffected populations.
We should just stop importing oil, for starters, instead.
jm
September 27th, 2010
5:20 pm
All that said, would be great if they would get along. Took forever just to get the Catholics and Protestants in N. Ireland to agree. That issue was far simpler by comparison… just don’t see it happening.
USSOC should focus on the lower hanging fruit instead.
Jefferson
September 27th, 2010
5:33 pm
When one group feels they are superior to another, its hard to get along.
Dusty
September 27th, 2010
5:40 pm
Oh no, Bookman is after Israel now. I guess he doesn’t want us to have ANY allies.
That’s my last Warrior Woman stand. I can’t take it anymore!! EEEYYYIUII!!
But before I go to fix those vittles (I’m edjumacated, Josef, so I can use “vittles”.) Line up for your evening cod liver oil as Paul has suggested. Now open your mouth….Paul, Josef, Jewcowboy, AMVET (double dose), jm, and all the rest of the Boys Club. Now place your right hand over your heart and pledge to behave (or get castor oil tomorrow).
Whew…Bookman, you can have ‘em!!
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
5:41 pm
It’s not about Israel’s security….it’s about the land! Everything else the Israelis say is a lie. It will never be over until Israel abandons the occupied territories and that won’t happen until the USA stops supporting the Israeli position and that won’t happen as long as politicians cater to those who “pay” them (not their salaries!).
Cowards and hypocrites!
Del
September 27th, 2010
5:42 pm
We have a helluva a lot more to worry about today than a Palestinian solution which was “long dead anyway”.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
5:42 pm
“Oh no, Bookman is after Israel now. I guess he doesn’t want us to have ANY allies.”
So, I take it, that you think Israel is above criticism because they are an ally?
Don't Forget
September 27th, 2010
5:43 pm
Jim Demint./republicans block subpoena power for BP oil spill. What a disgrace.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
5:44 pm
If radicals were able to get a 1 megaton suitcase bomb, would they set it off in Tel Aviv or Washington DC? Rhetorical question….but think about it.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
5:46 pm
“but think about it”
Both. They’d take it apart and use it to make dirty bombs instead.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
5:48 pm
Doggone/GA – I think that the image of a mushroom cloud rising over either city would be a photo op that they couldn’t pass up.
jewcowbot
September 27th, 2010
5:49 pm
If neither side is willing to work towards peace then they are both wiiling participants in their own destruction. And that is that.
“Jaina, they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let ‘em crash.”
Pleasant evening all.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
September 27th, 2010
5:50 pm
Well, I’m in a bind. I can’t figure out who I hate more—the Jews or the Towelheads. I guess I’ll need to set this one out. It’s tough for a good GA redneck when you only got two choices.
Have a good night everybody.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
5:50 pm
” think that the image of a mushroom cloud rising over either city would be a photo op that they couldn’t pass up.”
and I think they’d realize the huge propaganda power that would have AGAINST them. I think they’d go for the most damage spread over the widest area.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
5:58 pm
So-called Redneck
“It’s tough for a good GA redneck when you only got two choices.”
Shouldn’t be a problem for you since you’re not one, good or bad…
Pogo
September 27th, 2010
6:01 pm
jm, see my response downstairs to the earlier topic.
As for Israel and Palestine, the US must look after what is best for itself. Palestine is definitely not in our best interest because it is ruled by Islamic terrorists and it is backed by the terrorist states of Iran and Lebanon (and probably Egypt and host of others as well). Palestine and pretty much the whole of the Middle East detests Israel and the United States because of the Islamic “Infidel” thing. Jordan at least seems to be the exception, for now. The ironic thing is, historically, the Palestineans, as a people, were detested by all of the middle eastern country’s who now espouse to support them and the Palestinean people have been exiled out of many of their supporters countries. But for political expediency, these same countries support them now in their quest to destroy Israel and now, because of the Islam’s universal hate of Judaism (and the US), they unite behind the Palestineans. Yes, Israel is self-serving but who wouldn’t be in their circumstance? They are isolated and they are surrounded by enemies of everything they believe in and who only want to destroy them as a people and as a country. And, Israel is very strategic to the longterm Middle Eastern interests of the US. If we don’t have Israel which is a US supporter ((for whatever reason (money, weapons, etc.)), we have nothing over there. Israel is vital to US interests. Besides, shouldn’t we help those that have contributed so much to our country’s history and who have been treated so badly throughout history? Israel is history’s whipping dog. Their people have been treated as badly as any group in this worlds history but yet the go on. They have done much for themselves through their own hard work and preserverance, but they seem to be destined to be under constant attack by somebody looking for a scapegoat. Isn’t America about helping the underdogs of this world?
AmVet
September 27th, 2010
6:04 pm
I kind of miss the opportunity for Whiner to tell everyone what Jew haters all liberals are.
(Nah JB, just kidding…)
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:09 pm
Pogo – The underdogs in this instance are the Palestinians, no matter how you cut it. The Israelis have tanks, helicopters, missiles, fighters (jets), drones, etc. The Palestinians have……human bombs.
If the situation were that the occupied territories were in Alaska and the occupiers were Chinese or Russian, I think Americans would have a different attitude. Of course we (USA) have the military might to handle such an unthinkable situation. But if we didn’t…….human bombs suddenly seem like a reasonable alternative.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
6:09 pm
Israel and the Palestinians. Graveyard of American politicians’ dreams of a legacy.
N-GA
“If radicals were able to get a 1 megaton suitcase bomb, would they set it off in Tel Aviv or Washington DC? Rhetorical question….but think about it.”
I have. And if it ever did come to that, it would be evidence the perpetrators think America would not retaliate effectively.
BTW – ever trade the 4-wheel drive or the sedan?
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:10 pm
AmVet – The irony is that most American Jews identify themselves as liberal.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:12 pm
Paul – Not yet…dealing with our daughter’s health issues first and foremost. Everything else is on the back burner.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:12 pm
“If the situation were that the occupied territories were in Alaska and the occupiers were Chinese or Russian, I think Americans would have a different attitude.”
And if the situation were that the occupied territories were in Georgia and the occupiers were the u-ne-ga or the Yankees, Americans would have much the same attitude….
Paul
September 27th, 2010
6:14 pm
N-GA
I’m so sorry to hear that. Our good energy and prayers go out to you and your family.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:15 pm
Paul – America retaliates even before stuff happens. Look at Iraq. Ever look real closely at the pictures of Iraqi mothers carrying the bodies of their toddlers who were killed by our bombs? How long can you keep your eyes on such pictures? Innocent casualties of war? Or are they victims of an American President and his PNAC buddies over eager in their desire to show the Middle East who is really in charge?
I don’t think they would even consider for a second if we would retaliate. Not for a second!
Haywood Jablome
September 27th, 2010
6:16 pm
Wonder when that holocaust/pogrom sympathy will start getting skinny with the rest of the world who is watching the Israelis walk all over the Palestinians basic rights?
You’d think that with all the suffering the Jews claim, they’d have a little more empathy.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:19 pm
JAY
And here we go…you know what I mean?
El Jefe
September 27th, 2010
6:24 pm
Thanks the Creator that there is an Israel.
With their seething hatred of a Jewish state, giving into these Jordanian and Egyptian terrorists would be the same as placing a loaded gun into the hands of a 3 year old in a crowded mall.
If the arab terrorists wanted peace they would have had their own country by now and as a sovereign nation, they would be enjoying all the benefits.
But instead, all they want is war.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
6:29 pm
N-GA
“America retaliates even before stuff happens. Look at Iraq. ”
Good example. Not consistent with our past, but as the most recent, it’s applicable. And it has, particularly on the Left, had interesting influence on the Iran discussion.
A while back, don’t think you were on, I reviewed a bit of the Left’s attack on Pres Bush, many months after the invasion, over ‘where was the proof”? Not to say some key politicians weren’t opposed on the war vote, but many were not and before the vote, many of their statements provided grist for the call for war.
Anyhow, I asked, regarding all the talk about Iran and the nuke question – given that so many repeat the Administration’s assertion they’re developing nukes – where’s the level of proof you demanded of the Bush Administration and why haven’t you demanded the same of the Obama Administration?
I don’t recall there was ever a satisfactory answer. I am not saying I’m not suspicious of Iran’s intent – my thoughts are beside the point. The point is, if the public and administration supporters accept Iran’s on such a course, it seems to make the likelihood of a preemptive attack/war all the more likely.
As far as perpetrators doubting whether or not we’d retaliate, maybe the more appropriate question is, do they think our retaliation would be of such a limited degree that their action would be ‘worth it’?
El Jefe
September 27th, 2010
6:31 pm
I think before you condemn Israel, you might as the arab muslim citizens of Israel what they think of this mess?
As the Muslim members of Israels Parliament.
Then ask the Jewish citizens of Saudi Arabia or the Jewish members of the Arab League.
It is all a bit one sided. The arabs want everything, and Israel just wants the right to exist.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
6:32 pm
El Jefe
“With their seething hatred of a Jewish state, giving into these Jordanian and Egyptian terrorists would be the same as placing a loaded gun into the hands of a 3 year old in a crowded mall.”
Did not both Egypt and Jordan sign a peace treaty with Israel?
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:33 pm
El Jefe – Role the clock back to before 1948. If there was no state of Israel, is there still conflict in the ME? Unlikely. What has changed since then? Okay…I know the answer to that question. So who has created this situation?
El Jefe
September 27th, 2010
6:33 pm
Haywood Jablome,
A little empathy for falling rockets in civilian neighborhoods – get real.
El Jefe
September 27th, 2010
6:36 pm
N-GA,
Before 1948, the land was farmed and cultivated be Jewish settlers. They reclaimed the land from a desert into a farm land.
History shows that there was a Jewish presence the region for over 3000 years. Josephus the roman historian recorded much of the early history of that area.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:41 pm
El Jefe
Just to keep it in balance, ask (ArabLeague member) Bahrain’s Ambassador to the United States, Houda Nonoo.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:42 pm
Paul – I find myself unable to even consider Iran’s nuclear ambitions. The most we can hope for is to prolong their program. But even then who are we to dictate to another sovereign state? We have tried unsuccessfully to keep nuclear weapon technology out of the hands of so many. But India, Pakistan and North Korea all have it (along with the FRENCH!). I mean we cannot prevent everyone from getting nuclear, bacteriological or chemical weapons. We should spend more time and money ensuring that they are never used!
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
6:42 pm
Not many things in life are certain, but one that you can count on every time this subject comes up is N-GA’s seething hatred of Israel and the Jews. The guy probably thinks Hitler was a great humanitarian that just had his life’s work ended too soon.
Kamchak
September 27th, 2010
6:43 pm
The report of the fact-finding mission of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla released last week shows conclusively, for the first time, that US citizen Furkan Dogan and five Turkish citizens were murdered execution-style by Israeli commandos.
The report reveals that Dogan, the 19-year-old US citizen of Turkish descent, was filming with a small video camera on the top deck of the Mavi Marmara when he was shot twice in the head, once in the back and in the left leg and foot and that he was shot in the face at point blank range while lying on the ground.
The report says Dogan had apparently been “lying on the deck in a conscious or semi-conscious, state for some time” before being shot in his face.
El Jefe
September 27th, 2010
6:43 pm
N-GA,
When the UN partitioned the area, carving off part of Egypt and Jordan, people got a little upset. Today we have 5+ million jews surrounded by 500 million arabs and muslims. This would be like kicking all the Italians out of New York’s Little Italy.
BTW, prior to 1964, there was no Palestinian people. It was made up by Arafat and was called the Palestinian Liberation Organization, a terrorist organization.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
6:44 pm
josef @ 5:58
On the topic, Every President since Eisenhower has tried to bring peace in the Middle East. I don’t see Obama having any more success than any of the others. Peace will only come, when the participants get enough of the killing and the dying. Only they can stop it.
Grumpy
September 27th, 2010
6:46 pm
Religion is a sham that has caused more bloodshed than anything else in the history of mankind.
Kamchak
September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm
RIP George Blanda.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm
El Jefe – Stop smoking that stuff! It makes you stupid! There was a “place” the British called the Palestine Protectorate. It was occupied by Arabs AND Jews…..but there were far more Arabs. Some of the Arabs were Muslim and others were Christian. But most were certainly NOT Jews. The influx of Jews occurred after WWII (remember Leon Uris’ Exodus?). But you already know all this….you just prefer to spin it in order to rationalize what is happening to the people who have been displaced by the Jewish state.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm
“Only they can stop it”
I agree. Always and forever, we’re in the position of “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”
getalife
September 27th, 2010
6:49 pm
“So what will happen? In the end, I’d argue, what must happen is an effective default on a significant part of debt, one way or another. The default could be implicit, via a period of moderate inflation that reduces the real burden of debt; that’s how World War II cured the depression. Or, if not, we could see a gradual, painful process of individual defaults and bankruptcies, which ends up reducing overall debt.
And that’s what is happening now: as this story in today’s Times points out, the main force behind the gratifying decline in consumer debt appears to be default rather than thrift.
So basically, we can do this cleanly or we can do this ugly. And ugly is the way we’re going.”
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/default-is-in-our-stars/?src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman
Told ya.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm
N-GA 6:42
I find my thoughts going round and round on this issue. I find some of the statements made by the Democratic candidates in the last primary bordering on idiotic – to put oneself forth as the next president and to take such a hardline stance – do they not think that will have repercussions in the world?
Uncertainty is a great destabilizer. It leads to calculations that may be based on false premises. Works both ways – for how we view Iran and how they view us. And history shows the calculations are often wrong and the results disastrous.
But back to the topic: I often look at that situation, shake my head and wonder where it will all end. And as Jay wrote, it often comes out with Israel on the short end of the stick.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm
RW
As you know, my sympathies are largely with the Palestinians in this matter, but I don’t see some of our ever-so-eloquent hereabouts ready to go back to the pre New Echota frontiers…
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm
“Religion is a sham that has caused more bloodshed than anything else in the history of mankind”
This isn’t only a religious conflict. It’s more about the land than it is the religions.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm
Sorry to hear about George Blanda. Saw him play in Atlanta Stadium against the Falcons. Can’t remember the year but Bob Berry was the QB for the Falcons.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
6:53 pm
RW – it is so unlike you to make such a ridiculous statement. I was the only gentile to play on the Atlanta Jewish fast pitch softball team. My Jewish friends would think (rightfully) that you were full of merde. People who think that because Jews lived somewhere 3000 years ago they should now have a country carved out for them 3000 years later are….nuts. And now that the UN has done that, the Israelis have taken more land. And the UN has insisted they return it. Ironic that the UN created this country only to have them thumb their collective noses back at them.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
6:53 pm
This isn’t only a religious conflict. It’s more about the land than it is the religions.
I’d agree with that, just as Northern Ireland was largely a class struggle.
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
6:54 pm
A UN report that faults Israel???? Whodathunkit
Hillbilly D,
That would have had to be 1971.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:55 pm
And now comes the some of my best friends are…
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
6:58 pm
It wasn’t 3000, but 2000 years ago…and there has been a continuous Jewish population in the area that whole 2,000 years–sometimes slaughtered en masse by “Muslims”, sometimes by “Christians,” but present and accounted for throughout…
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
6:59 pm
Has anyone played the Hitler card yet?
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:01 pm
David
Yeah, it got played earlier…but in that case I did find it appropriate,,,
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:03 pm
Joseph – I think there has been a continuous presence of Jews in Egypt for thousands of years…they also live in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and many other predominantly Muslim countries. But we still have a problem with Palestinians and 200+ refugee camps were people have lived for 43 years.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
7:03 pm
“I’d agree with that, just as Northern Ireland was largely a class struggle.”
Exactly
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:04 pm
Actually Joseph it was not appropriate….the fact that you think it was appropriate says a lot about you.
Kamchak
September 27th, 2010
7:05 pm
A conservative scoffing at the U.N.
Whodathunkit
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
7:07 pm
Since when is it deemed inappropriate to ask a question and who claims authority over declaring said appropriateness.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:07 pm
NGA
And Unmentionable’s solution should suit you…pack the Palestinians off the some distant land, promise it to them “for as long as the rivers run,” settle the land and, hold onto it for the next 175 years and it won’t even enter into the discussion…I don’t support the State of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, but in substance it is no different than your u-ne-ga b*tt’s occupation of North Georgia…
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:09 pm
David
I found the question appropriate and I found the play of the card appropriate…and, yes, that does say a lot about me…
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:10 pm
Joseph – The solution is to return the occupied territories….ALL OF THEM!
btw – WTF is “u-ne-ga b*tt’s?
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:10 pm
Kamchak
Just wondering – seems to have a bearing on the original post and your response – but is anyone aware of a UN report alleging Israeli atrocities that was sympathetic to, let alone cleared, Israel?
Or similarly, of a UN report on an incident alleging Palestinian atrocities that was condemnatory towards the Palestinians?
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
7:12 pm
RW
I was thinkg it was 2-3 years after that but the memory ain’t what it used to be. I’m pretty sure it was the 70’s though.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:13 pm
David’s Goliath – The Hitler reference was by RW who said (referring to me) “The guy probably thinks Hitler was a great humanitarian that just had his life’s work ended too soon.”
Harsh words directed at someone who regards Hitler as one notch below Stalin. And the fact that josef thinks the remark was appropriate makes him as pathetic as the original source.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:15 pm
N-GA
If you knew any of the language of the displaced persons’ whose land you occupy, you’d know what a u-ne-ga is…and I agree on return of the occupied territories and since go back to the pre-1835 frontiers…may we see your CDIB card, sir?
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:16 pm
Hillbilly D,
I cheated and looked it up. Berry played in Atlanta from 1968-1972 and the only time Blanda’s Raiders came in during that time was 1971. The Falcons won 24-13
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:16 pm
N-Ga
Well, if a man is known by the company he keeps, then being classed with RW is no insult to me…
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
7:17 pm
RW
I sit corrected.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:19 pm
josef – when the Cherokees prevail in court then the ruling will be enforced. At present there has been no claim on my land….yet. No worries….I have title insurance.
Deep Throat
September 27th, 2010
7:19 pm
Paul 6:29 these liberals would never demand ANYTHING from their precious Oblunderer.
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:20 pm
Here’s another tidbit from that game that also proves global warming.
37 degrees, relative humidity 85%, wind 20 mph, wind chill 26
And it was only December 5th.
N-GA
September 27th, 2010
7:20 pm
josef….and I can only suppose that Hitler isn’t insulted when compared to Stalin….
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
7:21 pm
but in substance it is no different than your u-ne-ga b*tt’s occupation of North Georgia…
I would say that your words are inappropriate but I’m better than that.
Kamchak
September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm
but is anyone aware of a UN report alleging Israeli atrocities that was sympathetic to, let alone cleared, Israel?
Or similarly, of a UN report on an incident alleging Palestinian atrocities that was condemnatory towards the Palestinians?
Is anyone aware of?
Are you expecting me to speak on behalf of all the “anyones” on the planet?
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm
The Cherokee DID prevail in court…and you see what they got, eh Mr. Jackson? (Sorry, RW!
)
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm
U. S. Supreme Court decision, Worcester v. Georgia, 1832.
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:23 pm
And just one last bit ‘o info.
3rd OAK George Blanda 12 yard field goal
Bet you haven’t seen a 12 yard field goal being referenced in a good long time.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:24 pm
David
And what (except perhaps b*tt) is inappropriate in that?
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:25 pm
I’ve been thinking about this and -
RW -(the original) saying someone who opposes policies of the state of Israel is sympathetic with the actions of Hitler and the extreme inhumanity he directed towards the Jewish people strikes me as off-target and extreme. I’ve read N-GA’s frustrations as directed towards Israel, not jews in general. It’s all quite troubling. Would you care to restate?
josef nix – I’m perplexed by your statement you found the reference to Hitler appropriate in relation to RW-(the orginal)’s assessment of N-GA’s Israel criticism. More than perplexed, so much so I was wondering if it was really you. The incalculable suffering inflicted on the world by such a monster is not something that should be called up lightly, I think. Can you please explain your agreement?
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:27 pm
Paul,
I’ve seen N-GA’s thoughts for about 6 or 7 years now. No restatement needed.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
7:27 pm
RW
I remember it as being cold, windy, damp and overcast. Daryl Lamonica was Oakland’s starter in those days and they would get behind. Blanda would come in and stage a comeback and they would win the game. That’s basically what happened in that game, except they brought Blanda in too late and the comeback fell short. It’s sort of hazy after that.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:28 pm
PAUL
Don’t be perplexed. Given the general anti-Jewish tone of the poster in question, it was appropriate in my opinion. He doesn’t stop with criticizing the State of Israel.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:28 pm
Kamchak 7:22
I cited your post, then used it to address the rest of the readers to ask if any of them knew. It was not a request you speak on behalf of all.
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:29 pm
Hillbilly D,
Here’s that box score. If it’s accurate Blanda only kicked that day
Moderate Line
September 27th, 2010
7:29 pm
Israel lifts ban on settlement growth, killing peace hopes that were long dead anyway
++++++++
How do you kill something that was no long dead?
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
7:30 pm
“Are you expecting me to speak on behalf of all the “anyones” on the planet?”
It only takes one
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:30 pm
RW-(the original)
Do you see N-GA’s expressions regarding the Israeli-Palestinian situation as encompassing ‘Jews’ as opposed to the government and political elements of the state of Israel?
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:32 pm
Paul,
Yes, but I’m not basing that on just this thread, as I stated above.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:32 pm
Moderate
@ 7:29
That thought crossed my mind, too!
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:34 pm
josef nix 7:28
Wish I’d read your post before I responded to RW-(the original).
I don’t recall N-GA posting anti-Jewish comments. Critical of Israel, or elements within the country, or questioning why segments of US Jewish society support the policies, sure. But anti-Jewish in general? Or do you see the statements regarding Israel as somehow anti Jewish?
I’m not trying to be provocative or to misrepresent what any of you three have posted. I am trying to understand your positions, though, and how you see each other and how that led to this evening’s exchanges.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:36 pm
RW-(the original) 7:32
Thanks.
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
7:37 pm
RW
I searched back through the archives and that has to be the game. I’ve only been to 3 Falcon games in my life and all were in the 70’s. Guess my memory ain’t so good. I do remember it being that cold that cuts to the bone, though.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:40 pm
PAUL
He’s being a bit more restrained than usual this evening. He has made it quite clear previously that he draws little or no distinction between “the Jews” and the State of Israel.
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
7:42 pm
josef
And what (except perhaps b*tt) is inappropriate in that?
I was thinking a lack of relevance relative to the discussion of Israel and its land acquisitions.
What did you mean by, Yeah, it got played earlier…but in that case I did find it appropriate,,,
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:45 pm
David
It was in reference to the criticism of the State of Israel’s illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank when sitting on land illegally occupied and settled here in Georgia.
RW-(the original)
September 27th, 2010
7:46 pm
Hillbilly D,
I went to that playoff game against Philly on Christmas Eve of 1978 which was freezing, but I remember being at a game back in the early 80’s that was maybe the coldest I’d ever seen there. Two guys behind us had smuggled in some Jack Daniels that they were kind enough to share.
Now the weird part is they had smuggled it in in Heinz Ketchup bottles because they said you couldn’t bring glass liquor bottles in. I’m not sure what the point of changing one glass bottle out for another was if you didn’t want to get caught, but maybe they were going to say they needed this really thin ketchup on their dogs.
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
7:47 pm
We’ve reduced ourselves to judging based on our perception of another’s tone? My, how civilized and understanding we are.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:47 pm
David
As for the Hitler card, that was in reference to the poster’s vitriol against Jews…
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:48 pm
David
Tone? Yes.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:51 pm
josef nix
Thanks. I don’t recall that he has not distinguished between the two. Perhaps he’ll return and clarify.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
7:55 pm
PAUL
As I said, he’s a bit more restrained this p.m. The deeper he gets into his cups, the worse it is…it is something that I know I pay more attention to than others, for obvious reasons…and I don’t expect others to see it quite the way I do…
Del
September 27th, 2010
7:58 pm
Never could understand why so many American Jews identify with the liberal left in this country, while so many on the left favor the Palestinians in their war against Israel. The state of Israel has no better friends than the Evangelical Christian right in America because without the United States Israel couldn’t exist and if the far-left succeeds in minimizing Christians in this country, Israel is in real trouble.
Paul
September 27th, 2010
7:58 pm
thanks, josef nix. I appreciate hearing that. While it’s not my perception, I do realize that your background will influence you do have a different reaction.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
8:00 pm
“Never could understand why so many American Jews identify with the liberal left in this country, while so many on the left favor the Palestinians in their war against Israel.”
and has it never occured to you that what you perceive as the attitude of “the left” is not ALL that American Jews care about?
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
8:01 pm
It was in reference to the criticism of the State of Israel’s illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank when sitting on land illegally occupied and settled here in Georgia.
And who did N-Ga force off of the land he, I assume, holds legal deed to.
Disgusted
September 27th, 2010
8:01 pm
I don’t see any possibility of reconciliation. What’s Israel’s choice? Give up the occupied lands and return to bombardment from the Golan Heights in addition to creating more and nearer Palestinian rocket sites? And what’s the Palestinian option? Hamas, which really exerts authority over the government, will never agree to Israel’s right to exist, and the occupied land will have been given up for nothing. Israel’s only other option is to cease to exist as a Jewish state.
There’s no solution there, folks. And if I must choose between Palestinians and Israelis, I’ll side with the Israelis. At least the latter have some respect for human life, even if I can’t agree with the state’s current militancy. If you want to see Hamas’ attitude toward the value of human life, go googling for some of those videos of Hamas gunmen machine-gunning their own people on suspicion of possibly cooperating with the Israelis.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:02 pm
PAUL
As does my 35 years sharing beads and blankets with a displaced person…if you listen to this argument through Tsa-la-gi ears, it rings hypocritical in extremis.
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
8:04 pm
Tone? Yes.
By way of well placed exclamation? Inflection through the clever use of italics and boldening? Or perhaps a little reading between the lines through one’s own colored lenses is involved.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:04 pm
David
The Tsa-la-gi, that’s who. Did HE force them off? Did Shmuel bar Lev force the Palestinians off? Personally, no, but both are perfectly willing to take the benefits from those who did…
Del
September 27th, 2010
8:04 pm
Dog,
They care about Israels survival and there in lies the paradox.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:06 pm
David
As you can see from my post to Paul earlier, I don’t deny the charges of “through one’s own colored lenses.” I fall prey to that the same as we all do…in some areas more so than others…
Paul
September 27th, 2010
8:10 pm
josef nix 8:02
I think you recall one of our earliest exchanges, before I was aware of Unmentionable, began when I made the observation that no administration, Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, had followed thru with the Dept of the Interior doing much of anything at all to pay Native Americans that which they were owed and it would be a fine thing if one did and not hide behind a court battle to see how little they had to pay -
David's Goliath
September 27th, 2010
8:16 pm
Josef,
I bought and paid for the land that I live on and I have a legal document stating that. If you were to approach me and claim that the land actually belongs to you because your ancestors once lived on it, I would tell you to go frack yourself because I don’t live in the past and I did not take advantage of anyone in order to acquire the land that I legally purchased, under the law of the land, on the open market. Further, I suspect a court would uphold my opinion over yours.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:19 pm
David
Worcester v Georgia…but then might makes right..
PAUL
It is still very much an open question, but as the Bruin has told us, it’s not an issue around here…
Paul
September 27th, 2010
8:22 pm
josef nix
Sounds like a reasonable understanding of the situation.
Isn’t there a prayer about picking one’s battles and knowing what one does and does not have control over? From Niebuhr?
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Del
September 27th, 2010
8:23 pm
Shouldn’t offer up my two cents but I will anyway. Served with both American Indian Marines and Canadian Indian Marines, outstanding combat fighters. USMC 1961-1967
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:24 pm
“Israel is the stronger side in this ongoing conflict and, as such, is the one able to make the critical concessions and lead the way. They should be seen as concessions from a position of strength and not, as the right wing argues, a sign of surrender.”
Buried deep in the Post article Jay cited and not quoted by him lies part of the “answer” for a solution. Those on top are just very rarely so inclined, as I said above, might makes right.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:28 pm
DEL
A bit of Vietnam era trivia for you…American Indians served in greater numbers and lost more of their young men and women relative to their share in the general population than any other group…
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
8:32 pm
“Those on top are just very rarely so inclined, as I said above, might makes right.”
I know this isn’t exactly “on topic” but ^ this brings back to mind a show on NPR this weekend that was about Malcom X and “The Autobiography of Malcom X”
VERY interesting, especially to someone like me who was JUST too young to really understand or even care about, what was going on around and because of him. But something struck me that I don’t think would have hit me quite the same even if I had been older at the time…and that was the oft-repeated quote: “We declare our right on this earth…to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary.”
I know, thinking back on the faint memories I have of that time, that this was perceived as a threat…and maybe I would have seen it that way too, back then. But TODAY (yesterday actually) what hit me REALLY HARD was that it was, not a threat, but a plea to the much more powerful whites in this country…that WE have the POWER to make violence unneccessary. But we didn’t act on that power, and what we got was the violence we could have prevented.
Del
September 27th, 2010
8:37 pm
josef,
While like I said American Indians and there were Canadian Indians who were part of the some 20,000 Canadians who came here to fight in Vietnam, the majority were white Anglo Saxon Americans about 75% who mostly volunteered. The 58,000 thousand on the wall, well there ethnic backgrounds aren’t reflected, they just all died. Never mattered if you were white, black, red, yellow or purple.
G Cancryn
September 27th, 2010
8:38 pm
England The US and the other conspirators never had the authority to give that land to Jews down on their luck after ww2 because the jews were white, and everybody had a guilty consience for not stepping in earlier against Hitler.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:40 pm
DEL
As a Viet Vet said to me one time, “a bullet is color blind.”
G Cancryn
September 27th, 2010
8:40 pm
It’s clear. The Jews want it ALL. They want the Palestinians OUT of Palestine. Ask them, many of them will tell you so.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:45 pm
G Cancryn
Yeah, them ungrateful Hebes…
Okay, Jaybird, there it is…no distinction between the policies of the State of Israel and “The Jews…”
Let’s just go ahead and start citing The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, shall we?
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2010
8:51 pm
“Religion is a sham that has caused more bloodshed than anything else in the history of mankind.”
Grumpy, I can’t even begin to imagine the misery you’ll enjoy if you’re wrong. Good luck with it…
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:53 pm
Well, hope the Baptists and Muslims enjoyed the break from bash…glad to be of service…
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
8:53 pm
“I can’t even begin to imagine the misery you’ll enjoy if you’re wrong. Good luck with it…”
Maybe you didn’t mean it this way, but the way you’ve worded this makes it sound like you RELISH the thought of the misery he’ll “ENJOY”
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
8:57 pm
Doggone
Before I check out…
An interesting comment on Malcolm X…when I have more time, this is a discussion I’d enjoy having with you and your perspective…
Hillbilly Deluxe
September 27th, 2010
8:58 pm
Well, hope the Baptists and Muslims enjoyed the break from bash…glad to be of service…
Thanks for the night, off.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
9:00 pm
“when I have more time, this is a discussion I’d enjoy having with you and your perspective…”
It would be interesting for sure…but I’m labeling it a revelation. More than just perspective.
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2010
9:01 pm
BTW, you can argue the Israel/Palestine issue all you want, but the outcome is already documented in a very good book. You should quit wasting your time with all the speculation and hand wringing and just check out the book!
Del
September 27th, 2010
9:02 pm
Like I’ve said before on this blog , I don’t think this is the correct forum for me to express my religious views, however, I don’t criticize those who do try to advance their beliefs. I will say this though, from my own experience, those with an open mind will be touched by God and their experience will leave no doubt for the rest of their lives in this world. I pray that those who reject will at some point become as fortunate as I have been.
josef nix
September 27th, 2010
9:05 pm
g’night all…
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
9:08 pm
“I don’t think this is the correct forum for me to express my religious views”
Del, I think you will find that those of us willing to discuss religious views have no problem listening to what someone else has to say…but speaking, at least, for myself…there’s a real difference between stating “this is what I believe” and “this is what YOU SHOULD believe”
It’s been my experience here that there’s a lot of tolerence for the first, and not much for the second.
Del
September 27th, 2010
9:09 pm
Taps and pray for those who’re in harms way defending this country with their young lives as we peacefully sleep. Dissenting views on this blog won’t draw incoming.
Brett
September 27th, 2010
9:14 pm
It’s the usual Israeli way. Selfishness & arrogance know no limits.
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2010
9:14 pm
No, Doggie, I don’t relish anybody spending eternity in hell. Not at all. I do occasionally get a little testy with the Christian haters, however, and this fool certainly is one. There will be a time when he/she stands before God and is reminded of these times he rejected our Lord. I don’t want him to be able to say he wasn’t warned and I think offering an olive branch to one so full of hatred would be a waste of time. Perhaps through his misery someone else might see the light and change the path they’re on.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
9:20 pm
“I don’t relish anybody spending eternity in hell.”
Then next time you express that sentiment might I suggest you use some other word than enjoy? And again just personally, but I think you are WAY overreating in labeling what he said “hatred” – I saw no hatred in his words.
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2010
9:32 pm
” I saw no hatred in his words.”
Point well taken, but I can’t imagine any other reason to have posted the comment he posted.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
9:35 pm
“but I can’t imagine any other reason to have posted the comment he posted.”
Well, I read it as an indictment of religion…not of faith. I can sympathize with the sentiment…religion DOES cause a lot of problems in the world, mostly because of what I addressed to Del: that too many people are not content with saying what THEY believe, they want to go on to insist that EVERYONE should believe the way they do.
yowhatup
September 27th, 2010
9:44 pm
Nothing changes over there…waste of copy & paste Bookman….
carry on.
yowhatup
September 27th, 2010
9:45 pm
Mormons have it right….didn’t you see that Southpark episode guys?
buck@gon
September 27th, 2010
9:53 pm
Still, the West Bank is a paradise compared to Gaza.
Maybe Israel should build settlements there?
AmVet
September 27th, 2010
9:58 pm
Well, that repulsive post with the Hitler reference – “The guy probably thinks Hitler was a great humanitarian that just had his life’s work ended too soon.” – made for some weird bed fellows and spirited debate, yes?
How can josef and other decent people condone such a cavalier and puerile use of it?
It is an insult, worthy of being flung by only the most juvenile and the most disgusting. To degrade oneself by using it in that fashion is to me, truly remarkable.
Just my two cents worth…
RB from Gwinnett
September 27th, 2010
10:00 pm
Doggie, if you knew the road another man was on drove straight off a cliff, would you not feel compelled to encourage him to stop, to turn back, and ultimately to warn him with all your might? Or would you stand by and let him drive off the cliff because he didn’t want to be bothered by your suggestions the route was perilous?
Think about it.
Doggone/GA
September 27th, 2010
10:00 pm
getting late…night all
godless heathen
September 27th, 2010
10:12 pm
Since I don’t think a majority is going to come to their senses and denounce religion in favor of reason in our lifetimes, the only solution that will bring “Peace in the Mideast” is for one side to kick the living sh*t out of the other. I’m on the side of the Judeo-Christians.
md
September 27th, 2010
10:28 pm
“Role the clock back to before 1948. If there was no state of Israel, is there still conflict in the ME?”
There is that wonderful arbitrary point in time argument again – let’s get real, that conflict is older than dirt and odds are it will remain that way.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
12:10 am
Don’t forget: Bruno, I think my response was less condescending than yours but if you were offended, I apologize and it wasn’t my intent.
Df–You’re right that my original charge against “scientists” who claim that life is strictly a mechanistic process was pretty strong. But, as stated, it is borne out of the frustration of trying to reason with people who refuse to acknowledge the 900 lb. elephant in the room. Somehow, matter has the ability to “self-organize”, yet no physical properties on the atomic scale can explain that. And, it is only recently that even the scantest of lip service is being given by the scientific community to the obvious magic that “self-organization” represents . For the most part, anyone who draws attention this 900 lb elephant is told they are just not well-versed in Darwin’s theories.
For someone who works in health care, I would be shocked if you can’t acknowledge the obvious intelligence which permeates the Universe. Somehow you seem to be able to accept that 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 individual atoms working in unison within our bodies is just another ho-hum consequence of natural selection over time. Supposedly, single-cell organisms have been around for about 3,800,000,000 years, and animals for about 1,000,000,000 years. Though these estimated times are certainly long spans, I don’t think they are long enough for a series of accumulated accidents to result in the level of organization that 7 x 10^27 atoms working together for a single purpose represents. The mathematics is just too mind-boggling.
My suspicion is that many people defend a strictly mechanistic, purposeless existence because they feel the only other alternative explanation is an anthropomorphic Creator. As stated in my original posts on this subject, I think that is a false dichotomy. Life is magical, but in a far more intriguing, complex way than our imaginations can characterize.
Bruno
September 28th, 2010
12:15 am
Back to Columbus tomorrow, only have to move my bed and computer into storage to complete the first stage of my move.
A little musical treat from Alan Parson that reminds me of my teen years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4yCgdeWp9s&feature=related
Gaze at the sky
And picture a memory
Of days in your life
You knew what it meant to be happy and free
With time on your side
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
12:48 am
Hillbilly D,
I just finished watching the Cubs game, mostly out of interest for the fate of the Braves. If that’s the way their games generally go when they have a chance to win I feel for you and also respect you even more that you can a cool head amongst that madness.
RW-(the original)
September 28th, 2010
12:54 am
keep
.
insert where needed
/also a sign of genius I’ve been told
Don't Forget
September 28th, 2010
12:56 am
Bruno, hope the new job is going great. Always sucks to be the “new guy” though but it always gets better. I can understand a lot of your skepticism but there is experimental evidence that suggest that the original orgainization occurs fairly easily. Put phospholipids in a bucket of water and they will spontaneously form a phospholipid bilayer which is essentially a cell membrane. Put water and some of the primordial gases in a container and add periodic electric charges to simulate lightning and you get amino acids. Remember too that the primordial atmosphere was much different than the current atmosphere and these compounds weren’t subject to oxidation because of the low level of oxygen. In fact, the early natural selection was kind of a biochemical natural selection where amino acids and other important biochemicals were more protected from degradation when they were inside a phospholipid membrane. And the number of these molecules present on a planetary scale is enormous. The key steps in the process only have to happen once. For example chains of nucleic acid that are in equilibrium between double and single strand allow for crude replication. Once that happens you’re going to get lots of self replicating nucleic acid, In other words you start with a biochemical natural selection and modifications in the nucleic acid and other compounds that facilitate the process result in more of the improvement and the process is continually refined. Every improvement results in more because of the higher success rate of the process. Although it may seem like intelligence I think that is mainly because it is adapted to the world quite well. But there are maladaptations and shortcomings as well. I do believe in a creator/God but I think the design was in the universe and really don’t see anything that defies those laws of the universe. I also have to ask why wouldn’t God design a universe that could result in life spontaneously? Take care.
Don't Forget
September 28th, 2010
1:15 am
I should probably mention too that Darwins work was regarding the origin of species, not the origin of life but the general principles are quite similar. Darwin’s theories are understood and documented much better than the actual origin of life with the single cell organism.
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2010
5:23 am
We’ve reduced ourselves to judging based on our perception of another’s tone? My, how civilized and understanding we are.
Well, the topic is ancient bitter rivalries, and in Intertubes years, people who’ve been hanging around the AJC blogs for “6 or 7 years” probably qualify for “ancient”, so…
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2010
5:34 am
BTW, you can argue the Israel/Palestine issue all you want, but the outcome is already documented in a very good book.
That would be a very good “show of hands” question to pose at the Republican Presidential primary debates.
stands for decibels
September 28th, 2010
5:45 am
Based on my own discussions over the years, the results of this Pew poll don’t especially surprise me.
If you want to know about God, you might want to talk to an atheist.
Heresy? Perhaps. But a survey that measured Americans’ knowledge of religion found that atheists and agnostics knew more, on average, than followers of most major faiths. In fact, the gaps in knowledge among some of the faithful may give new meaning to the term “blind faith.”
[...]
American atheists and agnostics tend to be people who grew up in a religious tradition and consciously gave it up, often after a great deal of reflection and study, said Alan Cooperman, associate director for research at the Pew Forum.
“These are people who thought a lot about religion,” he said. “They’re not indifferent. They care about it.”
Atheists and agnostics also tend to be relatively well educated, and the survey found, not surprisingly, that the most knowledgeable people were also the best educated. However, it said that atheists and agnostics also outperformed believers who had a similar level of education.
Rightwing Troll
September 28th, 2010
6:37 am
Israel is our welfare charge, not our friend. We need to cut them from our teet.
How can “conservatives” support the welfare state of Israel and not support helping our own citizens?
What a joke.
Rightwing Troll
September 28th, 2010
6:42 am
113 in LA. How’s that climate change denial thingy working out for you?
PLO
September 28th, 2010
7:35 am
“Today, even if Palestinian leaders were miraculously awarded the courage and authority needed to make a deal with Israel, the “facts on the ground” on the wrong side of the Green Line would make such an agreement impossible”
If swarthy Palestinian leaders could make a deal with their DNA clones in Israel, the “facts on the ground” would depants any agreement.
Even Howey Mandel would demand to know, “Was it a good deal?”
mystified
September 28th, 2010
7:40 am
stands for decibels
You are right about atheists and I was close to becoming one myself. The thing that kept me from going that direction was the testimony of the 12. I used to wonder that if Jesus was God why would he allow all (most all) his closest friends to be tortured to death. Then I realized they had to die that way. If there were anyone alive who knew for sure if he did what was said about him it was them. Yet, afterward, when Jesus left, they preached on regardless of the persecution and while being tortured or threatened with an awful death, not a one recanted. I just don’t see human nature doing that for a lie.
Ok for what it’s worth… that’s my story
mystified
September 28th, 2010
7:46 am
Ok…. So Israel’s neighbors, who hated them, attacked them in a surprise attack on a religious holiday. They got their a$$eS handed to them by the Jews who drove them back and established a buffer. After the war, they say…ok… we want our land back. Just forget the fact that we want you dead and tried to kill you. It’s our land.
Not anymore it isn’t. Maybe they should rethink their diplomatic skills.
And as for peace with the Palestinians; who really thinks that is possible anyway? It didn’t work out so great for Jordan, so they just through them out of the country. Where was the uproar when that happened? But the Jordan’s are Muslim so that’s ok. We need to hold Israel to a different standard.
Mary Elizabeth
September 28th, 2010
7:57 am
For any atheist who has lingering doubts of his/her thoughts, I recommend reading “Mere Christianity” by Cambridge professor C. S. Lews (”The Chronicles of Narnia”). Lewis, an atheist, worked back into believing, with logic, as he writes in this book. (”Jesus was either a madman or the Son of God.”)
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
8:20 am
Mary Elizabeth…
Have you ever seen the Argentine film, “Man Facing Southeast?” The Christ as either madman or Son of G-d is much the theme. The thesis is that he was both.
Mary Elizabeth
September 28th, 2010
8:45 am
Josef,
No, I had not heard of that film. I will be sure to find it and view it. One has to be a little “mad” to believe in “loving your enemies” in this world. And yet by doing so, we just may save ourselves. Have a great day, Josef, and thanks for the tip on the film.
josef nix
September 28th, 2010
8:49 am
Mary Elizabeth
I would be MOST interested in your opinions on it…I’m upstairs now contemplating Blanche, Stella and Stanley in relation to Bishop Long…
Mary Elizabeth
September 28th, 2010
9:37 am
Josef,
And I’m downstairs (in my home) viewing “The Secret in Their Eyes” a complex film of many colors by Juan Jose Campanella in which the past and present interwine. It also happened to be filmed in Argentina – ah, life’s mysteries!
I’m heading for the beach after this weekend, but I will be back with you in November on my thoughts about “Man Facing Southeast.” Thanks for your interest in my thoughts, Josef. I always enjoy reading your posts.
.
Lil' Barry Bailout
September 28th, 2010
5:42 pm
A strikeout on settlements: Why Obama’s diplomacy is flailing
RICHARD COHEN
Every so often, the sayings of Casey Stengel come to mind. The longtime manager of the New York Yankees, accustomed to a Prussian professionalism, moved over to the astonishingly hapless New York Mets in 1962 and, surveying his new team, uttered an exasperated question: “Can’t anybody here play this game?” What applied to those Mets applies now to the Obama administration. In the Middle East, it’s no hits and plenty of errors
————————-
Idiot Messiah: Fail.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/09/28/2010-09-28_a_strikeout_on_settlements_why_president_obamas_diplomacy_is_failing.html#ixzz10rYnDEAW