Israel lifts ban on settlement growth, killing peace hopes that were long dead anyway

I’ve been deeply pessimistic about the Obama administration’s efforts at peacemaking in the Middle East, and indeed about the prospects of peace in general. By every indication, any chance of a workable two-state solution ended years ago, thanks largely to the continued expansion of West Bank settlements. Today, even if Palestinian leaders were miraculously awarded the courage and authority needed to make a deal with Israel, the “facts on the ground” on the wrong side of the Green Line would make such an agreement impossible.

Which is exactly what they were intended to do.

This week, Israel threw a little more dirt on the coffin when it ended its 10-month moratorium on settlement construction. The decision probably means the end of peace talks with the Palestinians and further strains Israeli relations with the United States and other countries, but to Israel those are small prices to pay .

David Newman, professor of political geography at Ben-Gurion University and editor of the International Journal of Geopolitics, expresses my pessimism eloquently in a new piece in the Jerusalem Post:

“There has been an important change in the way the settler population, along with many Israelis, views the role of settlements in a peace agreement. It is clear that the critical mass, the number that would make it almost impossible for any government – even one on the extreme Left – to evacuate the entire population has been long passed. Even allowing for a redrawing of the border involving the swap of territories and the inclusion of large settlement blocs within Israel, there will still be between 60,000 and 100,000 settlers on the Palestinian side of the line. Not only is this number significantly larger than the mere 7,000 of Gush Katif who were evacuated in 2005, it also comprises the ideological hard core of settlers in such places as Kedumim, Elon Moreh, Shiloh, Eli and Ofra (to name but a few), whose opposition to evacuation will be much stronger than those living in larger urban settlements close to the Green Line, such as Betar Illit, Alfei Menashe and perhaps even Ariel, who could have been bought out for adequate compensation.

More significantly, there has been a change in the way many now view the time factor. In the past, time was always perceived as being on the side of the Palestinians. They could simply play the waiting game while their own population, spurred by natural growth, increased much more rapidly than that of the settlers.

In demographic terms, this is still true. But the settlers have realized that if, since the signing of the Oslo agreements, their own population has more than doubled, it is no longer the demographic ratio between the two populations (which will always be in favor of the Palestinians), but the absolute numbers that make it increasingly difficult for a government to implement another forced evacuation.

They understand that every additional house, family and road make a peace agreement less plausible.

… Life will continue as normal. Settlements will expand. Palestinians will, once again, seek violent forms of resistance. The government will clamp down and pursue stronger security measures and curfews.

Back to square one. No settlement freeze, no significant peace talks. All of us, Israelis and Palestinians alike, will suffer the consequences.

In the long run, I fear, the consequences mentioned by Newman will be far more profound for Israel than for the Palestinians.

170 comments Add your comment

jm

September 27th, 2010
5:17 pm

People should stop wasting the time and effort on two groups of people who are determined not to get along. 10 million people and 10,000 square miles are not worth the diplomatic and military costs.

The Palestinian issue is a straw man kind of issue for undemocratic Arab states with disaffected populations.

We should just stop importing oil, for starters, instead.

jm

September 27th, 2010
5:20 pm

All that said, would be great if they would get along. Took forever just to get the Catholics and Protestants in N. Ireland to agree. That issue was far simpler by comparison… just don’t see it happening.

USSOC should focus on the lower hanging fruit instead.

Jefferson

September 27th, 2010
5:33 pm

When one group feels they are superior to another, its hard to get along.

Dusty

September 27th, 2010
5:40 pm

Oh no, Bookman is after Israel now. I guess he doesn’t want us to have ANY allies.

That’s my last Warrior Woman stand. I can’t take it anymore!! EEEYYYIUII!!

But before I go to fix those vittles (I’m edjumacated, Josef, so I can use “vittles”.) Line up for your evening cod liver oil as Paul has suggested. Now open your mouth….Paul, Josef, Jewcowboy, AMVET (double dose), jm, and all the rest of the Boys Club. Now place your right hand over your heart and pledge to behave (or get castor oil tomorrow).

Whew…Bookman, you can have ‘em!!

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
5:41 pm

It’s not about Israel’s security….it’s about the land! Everything else the Israelis say is a lie. It will never be over until Israel abandons the occupied territories and that won’t happen until the USA stops supporting the Israeli position and that won’t happen as long as politicians cater to those who “pay” them (not their salaries!).

Cowards and hypocrites!

Del

September 27th, 2010
5:42 pm

We have a helluva a lot more to worry about today than a Palestinian solution which was “long dead anyway”.

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
5:42 pm

“Oh no, Bookman is after Israel now. I guess he doesn’t want us to have ANY allies.”

So, I take it, that you think Israel is above criticism because they are an ally?

Don't Forget

September 27th, 2010
5:43 pm

Jim Demint./republicans block subpoena power for BP oil spill. What a disgrace.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
5:44 pm

If radicals were able to get a 1 megaton suitcase bomb, would they set it off in Tel Aviv or Washington DC? Rhetorical question….but think about it.

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
5:46 pm

“but think about it”

Both. They’d take it apart and use it to make dirty bombs instead.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
5:48 pm

Doggone/GA – I think that the image of a mushroom cloud rising over either city would be a photo op that they couldn’t pass up.

jewcowbot

September 27th, 2010
5:49 pm

If neither side is willing to work towards peace then they are both wiiling participants in their own destruction. And that is that.

“Jaina, they bought their ticket, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let ‘em crash.”

Pleasant evening all.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

September 27th, 2010
5:50 pm

Well, I’m in a bind. I can’t figure out who I hate more—the Jews or the Towelheads. I guess I’ll need to set this one out. It’s tough for a good GA redneck when you only got two choices.

Have a good night everybody.

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
5:50 pm

” think that the image of a mushroom cloud rising over either city would be a photo op that they couldn’t pass up.”

and I think they’d realize the huge propaganda power that would have AGAINST them. I think they’d go for the most damage spread over the widest area.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
5:58 pm

So-called Redneck

“It’s tough for a good GA redneck when you only got two choices.”

Shouldn’t be a problem for you since you’re not one, good or bad…

Pogo

September 27th, 2010
6:01 pm

jm, see my response downstairs to the earlier topic.

As for Israel and Palestine, the US must look after what is best for itself. Palestine is definitely not in our best interest because it is ruled by Islamic terrorists and it is backed by the terrorist states of Iran and Lebanon (and probably Egypt and host of others as well). Palestine and pretty much the whole of the Middle East detests Israel and the United States because of the Islamic “Infidel” thing. Jordan at least seems to be the exception, for now. The ironic thing is, historically, the Palestineans, as a people, were detested by all of the middle eastern country’s who now espouse to support them and the Palestinean people have been exiled out of many of their supporters countries. But for political expediency, these same countries support them now in their quest to destroy Israel and now, because of the Islam’s universal hate of Judaism (and the US), they unite behind the Palestineans. Yes, Israel is self-serving but who wouldn’t be in their circumstance? They are isolated and they are surrounded by enemies of everything they believe in and who only want to destroy them as a people and as a country. And, Israel is very strategic to the longterm Middle Eastern interests of the US. If we don’t have Israel which is a US supporter ((for whatever reason (money, weapons, etc.)), we have nothing over there. Israel is vital to US interests. Besides, shouldn’t we help those that have contributed so much to our country’s history and who have been treated so badly throughout history? Israel is history’s whipping dog. Their people have been treated as badly as any group in this worlds history but yet the go on. They have done much for themselves through their own hard work and preserverance, but they seem to be destined to be under constant attack by somebody looking for a scapegoat. Isn’t America about helping the underdogs of this world?

AmVet

September 27th, 2010
6:04 pm

I kind of miss the opportunity for Whiner to tell everyone what Jew haters all liberals are.

(Nah JB, just kidding…)

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:09 pm

Pogo – The underdogs in this instance are the Palestinians, no matter how you cut it. The Israelis have tanks, helicopters, missiles, fighters (jets), drones, etc. The Palestinians have……human bombs.

If the situation were that the occupied territories were in Alaska and the occupiers were Chinese or Russian, I think Americans would have a different attitude. Of course we (USA) have the military might to handle such an unthinkable situation. But if we didn’t…….human bombs suddenly seem like a reasonable alternative.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
6:09 pm

Israel and the Palestinians. Graveyard of American politicians’ dreams of a legacy.

N-GA

“If radicals were able to get a 1 megaton suitcase bomb, would they set it off in Tel Aviv or Washington DC? Rhetorical question….but think about it.”

I have. And if it ever did come to that, it would be evidence the perpetrators think America would not retaliate effectively.

BTW – ever trade the 4-wheel drive or the sedan?

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:10 pm

AmVet – The irony is that most American Jews identify themselves as liberal.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:12 pm

Paul – Not yet…dealing with our daughter’s health issues first and foremost. Everything else is on the back burner.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:12 pm

“If the situation were that the occupied territories were in Alaska and the occupiers were Chinese or Russian, I think Americans would have a different attitude.”

And if the situation were that the occupied territories were in Georgia and the occupiers were the u-ne-ga or the Yankees, Americans would have much the same attitude….

Paul

September 27th, 2010
6:14 pm

N-GA

I’m so sorry to hear that. Our good energy and prayers go out to you and your family.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:15 pm

Paul – America retaliates even before stuff happens. Look at Iraq. Ever look real closely at the pictures of Iraqi mothers carrying the bodies of their toddlers who were killed by our bombs? How long can you keep your eyes on such pictures? Innocent casualties of war? Or are they victims of an American President and his PNAC buddies over eager in their desire to show the Middle East who is really in charge?

I don’t think they would even consider for a second if we would retaliate. Not for a second!

Haywood Jablome

September 27th, 2010
6:16 pm

Wonder when that holocaust/pogrom sympathy will start getting skinny with the rest of the world who is watching the Israelis walk all over the Palestinians basic rights?

You’d think that with all the suffering the Jews claim, they’d have a little more empathy.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:19 pm

JAY

And here we go…you know what I mean? :-)

El Jefe

September 27th, 2010
6:24 pm

Thanks the Creator that there is an Israel.

With their seething hatred of a Jewish state, giving into these Jordanian and Egyptian terrorists would be the same as placing a loaded gun into the hands of a 3 year old in a crowded mall.

If the arab terrorists wanted peace they would have had their own country by now and as a sovereign nation, they would be enjoying all the benefits.

But instead, all they want is war.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
6:29 pm

N-GA

“America retaliates even before stuff happens. Look at Iraq. ”

Good example. Not consistent with our past, but as the most recent, it’s applicable. And it has, particularly on the Left, had interesting influence on the Iran discussion.

A while back, don’t think you were on, I reviewed a bit of the Left’s attack on Pres Bush, many months after the invasion, over ‘where was the proof”? Not to say some key politicians weren’t opposed on the war vote, but many were not and before the vote, many of their statements provided grist for the call for war.

Anyhow, I asked, regarding all the talk about Iran and the nuke question – given that so many repeat the Administration’s assertion they’re developing nukes – where’s the level of proof you demanded of the Bush Administration and why haven’t you demanded the same of the Obama Administration?

I don’t recall there was ever a satisfactory answer. I am not saying I’m not suspicious of Iran’s intent – my thoughts are beside the point. The point is, if the public and administration supporters accept Iran’s on such a course, it seems to make the likelihood of a preemptive attack/war all the more likely.

As far as perpetrators doubting whether or not we’d retaliate, maybe the more appropriate question is, do they think our retaliation would be of such a limited degree that their action would be ‘worth it’?

El Jefe

September 27th, 2010
6:31 pm

I think before you condemn Israel, you might as the arab muslim citizens of Israel what they think of this mess?

As the Muslim members of Israels Parliament.

Then ask the Jewish citizens of Saudi Arabia or the Jewish members of the Arab League.

It is all a bit one sided. The arabs want everything, and Israel just wants the right to exist.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
6:32 pm

El Jefe

“With their seething hatred of a Jewish state, giving into these Jordanian and Egyptian terrorists would be the same as placing a loaded gun into the hands of a 3 year old in a crowded mall.”

Did not both Egypt and Jordan sign a peace treaty with Israel?

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:33 pm

El Jefe – Role the clock back to before 1948. If there was no state of Israel, is there still conflict in the ME? Unlikely. What has changed since then? Okay…I know the answer to that question. So who has created this situation?

El Jefe

September 27th, 2010
6:33 pm

Haywood Jablome,

A little empathy for falling rockets in civilian neighborhoods – get real.

El Jefe

September 27th, 2010
6:36 pm

N-GA,

Before 1948, the land was farmed and cultivated be Jewish settlers. They reclaimed the land from a desert into a farm land.

History shows that there was a Jewish presence the region for over 3000 years. Josephus the roman historian recorded much of the early history of that area.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:41 pm

El Jefe
Just to keep it in balance, ask (ArabLeague member) Bahrain’s Ambassador to the United States, Houda Nonoo.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:42 pm

Paul – I find myself unable to even consider Iran’s nuclear ambitions. The most we can hope for is to prolong their program. But even then who are we to dictate to another sovereign state? We have tried unsuccessfully to keep nuclear weapon technology out of the hands of so many. But India, Pakistan and North Korea all have it (along with the FRENCH!). I mean we cannot prevent everyone from getting nuclear, bacteriological or chemical weapons. We should spend more time and money ensuring that they are never used!

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
6:42 pm

Not many things in life are certain, but one that you can count on every time this subject comes up is N-GA’s seething hatred of Israel and the Jews. The guy probably thinks Hitler was a great humanitarian that just had his life’s work ended too soon.

Kamchak

September 27th, 2010
6:43 pm

El Jefe

September 27th, 2010
6:43 pm

N-GA,

When the UN partitioned the area, carving off part of Egypt and Jordan, people got a little upset. Today we have 5+ million jews surrounded by 500 million arabs and muslims. This would be like kicking all the Italians out of New York’s Little Italy.

BTW, prior to 1964, there was no Palestinian people. It was made up by Arafat and was called the Palestinian Liberation Organization, a terrorist organization.

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
6:44 pm

josef @ 5:58

;-)

On the topic, Every President since Eisenhower has tried to bring peace in the Middle East. I don’t see Obama having any more success than any of the others. Peace will only come, when the participants get enough of the killing and the dying. Only they can stop it.

Grumpy

September 27th, 2010
6:46 pm

Religion is a sham that has caused more bloodshed than anything else in the history of mankind.

Kamchak

September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm

RIP George Blanda.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm

El Jefe – Stop smoking that stuff! It makes you stupid! There was a “place” the British called the Palestine Protectorate. It was occupied by Arabs AND Jews…..but there were far more Arabs. Some of the Arabs were Muslim and others were Christian. But most were certainly NOT Jews. The influx of Jews occurred after WWII (remember Leon Uris’ Exodus?). But you already know all this….you just prefer to spin it in order to rationalize what is happening to the people who have been displaced by the Jewish state.

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
6:47 pm

“Only they can stop it”

I agree. Always and forever, we’re in the position of “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”

getalife

September 27th, 2010
6:49 pm

“So what will happen? In the end, I’d argue, what must happen is an effective default on a significant part of debt, one way or another. The default could be implicit, via a period of moderate inflation that reduces the real burden of debt; that’s how World War II cured the depression. Or, if not, we could see a gradual, painful process of individual defaults and bankruptcies, which ends up reducing overall debt.

And that’s what is happening now: as this story in today’s Times points out, the main force behind the gratifying decline in consumer debt appears to be default rather than thrift.

So basically, we can do this cleanly or we can do this ugly. And ugly is the way we’re going.”

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/default-is-in-our-stars/?src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman

Told ya.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm

N-GA 6:42

I find my thoughts going round and round on this issue. I find some of the statements made by the Democratic candidates in the last primary bordering on idiotic – to put oneself forth as the next president and to take such a hardline stance – do they not think that will have repercussions in the world?

Uncertainty is a great destabilizer. It leads to calculations that may be based on false premises. Works both ways – for how we view Iran and how they view us. And history shows the calculations are often wrong and the results disastrous.

But back to the topic: I often look at that situation, shake my head and wonder where it will all end. And as Jay wrote, it often comes out with Israel on the short end of the stick.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm

RW
As you know, my sympathies are largely with the Palestinians in this matter, but I don’t see some of our ever-so-eloquent hereabouts ready to go back to the pre New Echota frontiers…

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm

“Religion is a sham that has caused more bloodshed than anything else in the history of mankind”

This isn’t only a religious conflict. It’s more about the land than it is the religions.

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
6:50 pm

Sorry to hear about George Blanda. Saw him play in Atlanta Stadium against the Falcons. Can’t remember the year but Bob Berry was the QB for the Falcons.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
6:53 pm

RW – it is so unlike you to make such a ridiculous statement. I was the only gentile to play on the Atlanta Jewish fast pitch softball team. My Jewish friends would think (rightfully) that you were full of merde. People who think that because Jews lived somewhere 3000 years ago they should now have a country carved out for them 3000 years later are….nuts. And now that the UN has done that, the Israelis have taken more land. And the UN has insisted they return it. Ironic that the UN created this country only to have them thumb their collective noses back at them.

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
6:53 pm

This isn’t only a religious conflict. It’s more about the land than it is the religions.

I’d agree with that, just as Northern Ireland was largely a class struggle.

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
6:54 pm

A UN report that faults Israel???? Whodathunkit

Hillbilly D,

That would have had to be 1971.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:55 pm

And now comes the some of my best friends are…

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
6:58 pm

It wasn’t 3000, but 2000 years ago…and there has been a continuous Jewish population in the area that whole 2,000 years–sometimes slaughtered en masse by “Muslims”, sometimes by “Christians,” but present and accounted for throughout…

David's Goliath

September 27th, 2010
6:59 pm

Has anyone played the Hitler card yet?

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:01 pm

David

Yeah, it got played earlier…but in that case I did find it appropriate,,,

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:03 pm

Joseph – I think there has been a continuous presence of Jews in Egypt for thousands of years…they also live in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and many other predominantly Muslim countries. But we still have a problem with Palestinians and 200+ refugee camps were people have lived for 43 years.

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
7:03 pm

“I’d agree with that, just as Northern Ireland was largely a class struggle.”

Exactly

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:04 pm

Actually Joseph it was not appropriate….the fact that you think it was appropriate says a lot about you.

Kamchak

September 27th, 2010
7:05 pm

A conservative scoffing at the U.N.

Whodathunkit

David's Goliath

September 27th, 2010
7:07 pm

Since when is it deemed inappropriate to ask a question and who claims authority over declaring said appropriateness.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:07 pm

NGA

And Unmentionable’s solution should suit you…pack the Palestinians off the some distant land, promise it to them “for as long as the rivers run,” settle the land and, hold onto it for the next 175 years and it won’t even enter into the discussion…I don’t support the State of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, but in substance it is no different than your u-ne-ga b*tt’s occupation of North Georgia…

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:09 pm

David

I found the question appropriate and I found the play of the card appropriate…and, yes, that does say a lot about me…

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:10 pm

Joseph – The solution is to return the occupied territories….ALL OF THEM!

btw – WTF is “u-ne-ga b*tt’s?

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:10 pm

Kamchak

Just wondering – seems to have a bearing on the original post and your response – but is anyone aware of a UN report alleging Israeli atrocities that was sympathetic to, let alone cleared, Israel?

Or similarly, of a UN report on an incident alleging Palestinian atrocities that was condemnatory towards the Palestinians?

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
7:12 pm

RW

I was thinkg it was 2-3 years after that but the memory ain’t what it used to be. I’m pretty sure it was the 70’s though. :lol:

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:13 pm

David’s Goliath – The Hitler reference was by RW who said (referring to me) “The guy probably thinks Hitler was a great humanitarian that just had his life’s work ended too soon.”

Harsh words directed at someone who regards Hitler as one notch below Stalin. And the fact that josef thinks the remark was appropriate makes him as pathetic as the original source.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:15 pm

N-GA

If you knew any of the language of the displaced persons’ whose land you occupy, you’d know what a u-ne-ga is…and I agree on return of the occupied territories and since go back to the pre-1835 frontiers…may we see your CDIB card, sir?

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:16 pm

Hillbilly D,

I cheated and looked it up. Berry played in Atlanta from 1968-1972 and the only time Blanda’s Raiders came in during that time was 1971. The Falcons won 24-13 :-)

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:16 pm

N-Ga
Well, if a man is known by the company he keeps, then being classed with RW is no insult to me…

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
7:17 pm

RW

I sit corrected. :lol:

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:19 pm

josef – when the Cherokees prevail in court then the ruling will be enforced. At present there has been no claim on my land….yet. No worries….I have title insurance.

Deep Throat

September 27th, 2010
7:19 pm

Paul 6:29 these liberals would never demand ANYTHING from their precious Oblunderer.

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:20 pm

Here’s another tidbit from that game that also proves global warming.

37 degrees, relative humidity 85%, wind 20 mph, wind chill 26

And it was only December 5th.

N-GA

September 27th, 2010
7:20 pm

josef….and I can only suppose that Hitler isn’t insulted when compared to Stalin….

David's Goliath

September 27th, 2010
7:21 pm

but in substance it is no different than your u-ne-ga b*tt’s occupation of North Georgia…

I would say that your words are inappropriate but I’m better than that.

Kamchak

September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm

but is anyone aware of a UN report alleging Israeli atrocities that was sympathetic to, let alone cleared, Israel?

Or similarly, of a UN report on an incident alleging Palestinian atrocities that was condemnatory towards the Palestinians?

Is anyone aware of?

Are you expecting me to speak on behalf of all the “anyones” on the planet?

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm

The Cherokee DID prevail in court…and you see what they got, eh Mr. Jackson? (Sorry, RW! :-) )

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
7:22 pm

U. S. Supreme Court decision, Worcester v. Georgia, 1832.

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:23 pm

And just one last bit ‘o info.

3rd OAK George Blanda 12 yard field goal

Bet you haven’t seen a 12 yard field goal being referenced in a good long time.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:24 pm

David
And what (except perhaps b*tt) is inappropriate in that?

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:25 pm

I’ve been thinking about this and -

RW -(the original) saying someone who opposes policies of the state of Israel is sympathetic with the actions of Hitler and the extreme inhumanity he directed towards the Jewish people strikes me as off-target and extreme. I’ve read N-GA’s frustrations as directed towards Israel, not jews in general. It’s all quite troubling. Would you care to restate?

josef nix – I’m perplexed by your statement you found the reference to Hitler appropriate in relation to RW-(the orginal)’s assessment of N-GA’s Israel criticism. More than perplexed, so much so I was wondering if it was really you. The incalculable suffering inflicted on the world by such a monster is not something that should be called up lightly, I think. Can you please explain your agreement?

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:27 pm

Paul,

I’ve seen N-GA’s thoughts for about 6 or 7 years now. No restatement needed.

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
7:27 pm

RW

I remember it as being cold, windy, damp and overcast. Daryl Lamonica was Oakland’s starter in those days and they would get behind. Blanda would come in and stage a comeback and they would win the game. That’s basically what happened in that game, except they brought Blanda in too late and the comeback fell short. It’s sort of hazy after that.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:28 pm

PAUL
Don’t be perplexed. Given the general anti-Jewish tone of the poster in question, it was appropriate in my opinion. He doesn’t stop with criticizing the State of Israel.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:28 pm

Kamchak 7:22

I cited your post, then used it to address the rest of the readers to ask if any of them knew. It was not a request you speak on behalf of all.

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:29 pm

Moderate Line

September 27th, 2010
7:29 pm

Israel lifts ban on settlement growth, killing peace hopes that were long dead anyway
++++++++
How do you kill something that was no long dead?

Doggone/GA

September 27th, 2010
7:30 pm

“Are you expecting me to speak on behalf of all the “anyones” on the planet?”

It only takes one

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:30 pm

RW-(the original)

Do you see N-GA’s expressions regarding the Israeli-Palestinian situation as encompassing ‘Jews’ as opposed to the government and political elements of the state of Israel?

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:32 pm

Paul,

Yes, but I’m not basing that on just this thread, as I stated above.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:32 pm

Moderate
@ 7:29

That thought crossed my mind, too!

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:34 pm

josef nix 7:28

Wish I’d read your post before I responded to RW-(the original).

I don’t recall N-GA posting anti-Jewish comments. Critical of Israel, or elements within the country, or questioning why segments of US Jewish society support the policies, sure. But anti-Jewish in general? Or do you see the statements regarding Israel as somehow anti Jewish?

I’m not trying to be provocative or to misrepresent what any of you three have posted. I am trying to understand your positions, though, and how you see each other and how that led to this evening’s exchanges.

Paul

September 27th, 2010
7:36 pm

RW-(the original) 7:32

Thanks.

Hillbilly Deluxe

September 27th, 2010
7:37 pm

RW

I searched back through the archives and that has to be the game. I’ve only been to 3 Falcon games in my life and all were in the 70’s. Guess my memory ain’t so good. I do remember it being that cold that cuts to the bone, though.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:40 pm

PAUL

He’s being a bit more restrained than usual this evening. He has made it quite clear previously that he draws little or no distinction between “the Jews” and the State of Israel.

David's Goliath

September 27th, 2010
7:42 pm

josef
And what (except perhaps b*tt) is inappropriate in that?

I was thinking a lack of relevance relative to the discussion of Israel and its land acquisitions.

What did you mean by, Yeah, it got played earlier…but in that case I did find it appropriate,,,

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:45 pm

David

It was in reference to the criticism of the State of Israel’s illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank when sitting on land illegally occupied and settled here in Georgia.

RW-(the original)

September 27th, 2010
7:46 pm

Hillbilly D,

I went to that playoff game against Philly on Christmas Eve of 1978 which was freezing, but I remember being at a game back in the early 80’s that was maybe the coldest I’d ever seen there. Two guys behind us had smuggled in some Jack Daniels that they were kind enough to share.

Now the weird part is they had smuggled it in in Heinz Ketchup bottles because they said you couldn’t bring glass liquor bottles in. I’m not sure what the point of changing one glass bottle out for another was if you didn’t want to get caught, but maybe they were going to say they needed this really thin ketchup on their dogs.

David's Goliath

September 27th, 2010
7:47 pm

We’ve reduced ourselves to judging based on our perception of another’s tone? My, how civilized and understanding we are.

josef nix

September 27th, 2010
7:47 pm

David

As for the Hitler card, that was in reference to the poster’s vitriol against Jews…