The worst may be over, but the very bad will be with us for a while yet

consumer

Source: Federal Reserve

Feel better now?

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, which decides such things, the Great Recession is over, and in fact ended back in June 2009.

“The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion,” the NBER notes. “The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II.  Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.”

As the bureau noted, “the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since (June 2009) have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity.” Put another way, it’s merely when the beating finally stopped.

The chart to the right, depicting industrial production of consumer goods, illustrates that trough pretty dramatically. The chart below, of the Dow Jones Industrial Average, tells much the same story, with the indicator bottoming out in March 2009 at roughly 6600 before recovering to current levels.

Dow Jones Industrial Average, April 1, 2008 to present. Source: Yahoo

Dow Jones Industrial Average, April 1, 2008 to present. Source: Yahoo

Unfortunately, while the stock market has recovered a good portion of its loss, the job base has not, as our final chart below demonstrates. Job losses, typically a lagging indicator, didn’t begin to pick up steam until May 2008 and continued to accelerate well into 2009. And while the overall economy has recovered in fits and starts since then, it’s still hard to see that improvement in the job numbers.

LNS14000000_327229_1284999777466

209 comments Add your comment

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
12:55 pm

Unfortunately, while the stock market has recovered a good portion of its loss, the job base has not, as our final chart below demonstrates

And the job base will not recover for a long, long time. It’s hard to recover what is no longer there.

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
12:55 pm

Didn’t I read this entire column in the comments downstairs?

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
1:00 pm

RW

I didn’t have the graphs and stuff. :)

btw… first post on a topic I posted first on the previous thread!!!!!

Peadawg

September 20th, 2010
1:04 pm

“the Great Recession is over, and in fact ended back in June 2009.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
1:04 pm

SoCo,

It’s almost like you’re on your very own high speed train while the rest of us are on the airport shuttle.

getalife

September 20th, 2010
1:04 pm

The cons will vote to go back to the bush depression.

They say they have the votes to pass immigration.

Bud Wiser

September 20th, 2010
1:05 pm

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, which decides such things, the Great Recession is over, and in fact ended back in June 2009.

Wow. It only took Obozo 5 months to end it?

I guess his team of socialist morons that disguise themselves as ‘economists’ have something really really good in store for all of the jobless (back up over 10% in Georgia, but that 3rd grade level public education will only get one so far…)

When you have a tax cheat as your main economic advisor to the president, it pretty much sums up his outlook on the economy, and how much he feels their pain – “Hey, save money, cheat on your taxes like my main man Timmy G.”

The pigs are racing to the November slaughterhouse.

I predict here and now that the dimwittocrats, once they lose their majorities in the election, will cram the lame duck time with porkulus that will defy even Bookman’s imagination.

And, I am still waiting for your apology Bookman, for your racial slur against me last week…not that I’m holding my breath or anything, but I did them at least thank you for once more pointing out to your drooling fan club the subliminal slurs and racial animosity your kind possess, and reveal occasionally without even acknowledging that you did it.

arnold

September 20th, 2010
1:06 pm

Whether the recession ended or not, the jobs are gone. many will never be reproduced. Those that were laid off had best look for a different career or accept a lower level within their previous industry. If they accept a lower position, and are worthwhile, they’ll advance.

Some were probably over their head and will go nowhere. Those will just need to change their priorities and take a different course.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
1:08 pm

RW

I’ll have to credit the Lucas Oil product line. I’ve got my system cleaned out and firing on all 8 cylinders now!!!!

j/k!!! (although I’m hoping it does help my Chevy along in the restoration process)

Steve Thompson

September 20th, 2010
1:13 pm

I’m certain that the 9.6% of Americans who are unemployed (U3) and the 16% of workers who are part of the U6 broader statistic would agree; the recession is definitely in the past….for those who actually have jobs.

This recession could not have ended at a better time. With the United States public debt reaching $13.4 trillion, the American government could not afford to increase stimulus to spend its way out of a recession that was any lengthier. Fortunately, our the interest on our public debt is still smaller than the GDP of the top 22 countries in the world. Here’s a look at the most recent debt numbers:

http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2010/08/united-states-waiting-on-debt-downgrade.html

I wonder how the government will be able to spend its way out of the next downturn?

Harry Callahan

September 20th, 2010
1:19 pm

Don’t know if the recession is over or not, but it will be over by Nov 3.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
1:25 pm

but it will be over by Nov 3.

What does that mean? Are you stating that businesses are not hiring and people are not spending because the GOP does not control Congress? Of all the insane stuff I’ve read here before, that tops the cake. Hell that tops, spreads the icing, and even slices and plates the cake!!!

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:25 pm

Well I honestly didn’t need a chart to tell me that, with unemployment at record levels and millions of houses in foreclosure you only need a 6th grade education to realize that.

Many things have not hit us yet, Obamacare, Stimulous loans, etc’ so don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

The stock market is not always a good indicator of what the economy is doing.

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2010
1:28 pm

From Jay’s NBER linkee:

The committee designated June as the month of the trough based on several monthly indicators. The trough dates for these indicators are:

Macroeconomic Advisers’ monthly GDP (June)
The Stock-Watson index of monthly GDP (June)
Their index of monthly GDI (July)
An average of their two indexes of monthly GDP and GDI (June)
Real manufacturing and trade sales (June)
Index of Industrial Production (June)
Real personal income less transfers (October)
Aggregate hours of work in the total economy (October)
Payroll survey employment (December)
Household survey employment (December)

(in case you were wondering how they actually came up with the date.)

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:29 pm

Southern Comfort, I feel that the best thing that could happen is for a stalemate in Congress & the Senate, our spending is totally out of control.

Pelosi paying $18,700 a month of our tax dollars for her office is just one example, and the Republicans are almost as bad. These politicans could care less about us.

Haywood Jablome

September 20th, 2010
1:29 pm

Bud Wiser, you’re funny, because you’re so stupid. But keep up the good work.

And, BTW, I am a socialist moron disguised as an economist. That’s good stuff because its so weak and stupid that it is funny.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
1:29 pm

AmVet

September 20th, 2010
1:33 pm

SoCo, I’m guessing that that bit of wisdom alludes to the idea that what we need are a return to those successful years under GWB.

There is nobody in Washington who has the guts to even address, much less stand up to the corporate titans of malfeasance and criminal negligence.

Because they lack any moral courage, these DemReps are not the men who will try to fundamentally change the failed status quo.

“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis?)attributed to Abraham Lincoln

Whoever wrote it could not have been more prescient though…

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:34 pm

Southern Comfort, I was refering to a post that Jay wrote about several months ago where he was claiming that the Stock Market was up and everything was hunky-dorey.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
1:35 pm

dB

You beat me to the punch on that one.

ken R

I think balanced government works best too (I think that’s what you meant by stalemate). With the current level of partisanship we have, I don’t think anything productive will come from Congress for a long time.

A case in point is the debate over the Bush Tax Cuts. It’s not a good idea to raise taxes in a down economy or during economic uncertainty, but is it good long-term fiscal policy to add a few more trillions to the national debt for short-term relief? Personally, I think we’re going to have to take a few lumps, so why not go ahead and swallow the bitter pill now and start working on a viable long-term recovery plan? The recovery plan doesn’t have to be a government plan as government does not create jobs. The business community needs to get a dose of the Tea Party patriotism and put country recovery over personal recovery for a few months.

Jim Smith

September 20th, 2010
1:36 pm

Callahan must be trolling. The GOP is RESPONSIBLE for the current Depression. Obama inherited the worst financial mess of any President ever and everyone expected him to fix it quick? What a laugh. The same sociopathic corporate elite still rule our “government” and have Obama on a tight leash. The rape of the US and we taxpayers continues, the arrogant smallminded GOP was just more blatant about it “take that sheeple, what are you going to do about it…”

Carlosgvv

September 20th, 2010
1:37 pm

If the recession is really over because the Government says so does that mean I can start to beleive all the other things the politicians say? Have we finally reached that wonderland where they will be truthful now? Does anyone have any good oil stocks in Snellville I can buy?

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:38 pm

SO Co, that was well said, and I agree with you on those points. Yes, Stalemate is what I want.

Paul

September 20th, 2010
1:39 pm

That’s the problem – jobs – one of the most lagging of the lagging indicators. People can talk all they want about ‘big picture’ items, but as long as they’re out of work, or their parents or kids or siblings, it’s tough to accept ‘things are better.’

For some presidents, the end of the lagging indicators hits at just the right time. For some, it doesn’t. We’ll see how fate favors this president.

mm

September 20th, 2010
1:44 pm

About a month ago I saw a bumper sticker on a plumbers truck that read”

“NOT HIRING UNTIL 2012″

That tells me all I need to know conerning why businesses are not hiring.

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:44 pm

While a lot of people rag on Bush, and he isn’t my favorite President either, everyone seems to forget hoe his administration had to spend Billions and Billions to change the way we live on account of 9/11.

That has an effect on our economy yet most people seem to forget that, please just think about what that cost and you may feel a little differently.

ken R

September 20th, 2010
1:45 pm

meant to say how.

Russ555

September 20th, 2010
1:45 pm

Jay, you mentioned the good and the bad, but not the ugly. I am afraid it will be around for a long time also.

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2010
1:45 pm

Well, the stat geeks over at calculated risk were chatting about this a couple hours earlier, so I gotta copy/paste this gem from their comments page:

timmay [Geithner] speed dials Barry:

“President Obama, did you hear the news, the recession was officially over in June 2009.”

hears the sound of the presidents pencil tapping loudly on his desk.

The president responds: ” so now we’re really screwed!” and slams down the phone on poor timmay.

GreenMan

September 20th, 2010
1:46 pm

The Titanic hit the iceberg during Capt. Bush’s watch, so if the ship is riding low but not actually at the bottom of the Atlantic it is because of the Stimulus Program and the cash liquidity injected into a seized up credit system that was about to cut off the bilge pumps. Look people, it is a 40-50 billion dollars a month structural Trade Deficit that is leaking US dollars and jobs overseas, and there is not much that government can do about THAT that won’t cause a Trade War. Globalism has been offshoring our real economy for decades, with bipartisan support, so now we look nervously at the retail sales figures the way our ancestors used to watch the manufacturing statistics. The difference is that a services based economy lacks the strong balance sheets necessary for a business to weather economic storms, pay livable wages & benefits, and shore up its local community. The Darwinian Republicans say they are against Federal Stimulus spending and for deficit reduction, but just check out where their oil, coal, natural gas and military industrial complex businesses get all sorts of subsidies & tax breaks from and you’ll see the well-known Bush/Cheney/Halliburton/Enron Effect on a grand scale. To be fair, the Tax & Spend Democrats have Changed and become Spend & Tax Later Democrats, so the lesson here is that everyone is scrambling for a seat on a lifeboat that gets some kind of government support. Yes, those cold Atlantic waters are still flooding in and the smart money is betting on a bruising battle for lifeboat seats in November that will get really nasty. Better start lashing some deck chairs, or anything that will float, together and get prepared to save your own hide – unless you’re one of the elite who can buy their government subsidized liferaft direct through your favorite PAC. Alas, any student of the history of empire can see exactly where we have arrived, and the bumpy road to our future diminished world status is quite inevitable. The only question is how fast or slow will the Chinese let us fall, and how will quickly will the Red State/Blue State Balkanization of the US lead to paralyzing dysfunctional fear mongering and national gridlock.

AmVet

September 20th, 2010
1:50 pm

…his (GWB) administration had to spend Billions and Billions to change the way we live on account of 9/11.

NO, he chose to do so. Cooking the books to concoct a botched invasion and occupation of the wrong country was the chickenhawks choice. It was NOT a military necessity. And it cost them dearly in 2006 and 2008 when they got absolutely obliterated at the polls. Sadly after nearly 6,000 flag draped coffins came home to Dover AFB needlessly…

Obama inherited the worst financial mess of any President ever and everyone expected him to fix it quick?

Excluding perhaps the event so nearly 80 years ago, when another Democrat has to fix the mess left behind by his GOP predecessors.

Bush and Hoover – the bookends of disastrous American reigns…

Obama

September 20th, 2010
1:55 pm

Greenspan labeled the recession as being over in June ‘09. He noted that about a year ago. He claimed that the unemployment rate will lag behind growth as more and more job seekers become encouraged enough to start looking again. So as more jobs are created, then more job seekers return to the market, thus the rate remains the same.

Last year’s story. When you read about it in the papers, it’s already last year’s story, unless you’re reading the sports page, then it’s yesterday’s story.

What I want is a newspaper that tells us what will happen tomorrow. (besides the weather page or Glenn Becks predictions of doom).

Jimmy62

September 20th, 2010
2:01 pm

Unfortunately all these numbers are missing some important elements. Instead of letting the failures fail, and the toxic assets create losses for their investors, as would happen in a free market, our government intervened and TARPed and stimulated and bailed out. And all those toxic assets are still there, covered up by government money (stolen from taxpayers to pay for things taxes aren’t supposed to pay for), and waiting like a ticking time bomb to destroy our economy. We are ignoring these underlying factors, probably because the Democrats figure they are going to lose in November, and the time bomb will hit when the GOP is in charge again.

We should not have rewarded failure and punished success, we will be paying for our short-term selfishness for generations.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
2:05 pm

ken @ 1:34

Ok, understand better now. I cringe every time I see or hear someone base their beliefs about our economy on what the stock market is doing. To me, it equates to trusting your personal finances to a Vegas casino and depending on them to make YOU money.

Abrazos

September 20th, 2010
2:07 pm

Great editorial paralleling this topic today in the NYT. An excerpt:

These are terrible times for many people in this country. Poverty, especially acute poverty, has soared in the economic slump; millions of people have lost their homes. Young people can’t find jobs; laid-off 50-somethings fear that they’ll never work again.

If you want to find real political rage — the kind of rage that makes people compare President Obama to Hitler, or accuse him of treason — you won’t find it among those suffering Americans. You’ll find it instead among the very privileged, people who don’t have to worry about losing their jobs, their homes, or their health insurance, but who are outraged, OUTRAGED, at the thought of paying modestly higher taxes [3-4%].

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they’ll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

But when they say “we,” they mean “you.” Sacrifice is for the little people.

paleo-neo-Carlinist

September 20th, 2010
2:08 pm

“These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.” Clemenza – Only life ain’t “The Godfather”. “these things” (bubbles/recesssions) ARE our economy. and the jobs lost ARE “the bad blood” in the eyes of the stock market. WHAT many people cannot seem to understand (or choose to ignore) is the fact that since the “Reagan revolution” Americans have funded spending with debt. for those of you keeping score – DEBT is what inflated tech or housing bubbles. the debt appears as assets on a few balance sheets, but invariably, John Q. Public “takes the heat” (remember Clemenza’s final words to Mike).

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
2:08 pm

Do not worry my little sheeple…er, uh, citizens…My teleprompter and I rule all that love the power of the Almighty Government.

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:08 pm

You hear many question the wisdom of raising taxes during a recession. If the contention that President Obama is raising taxes on the top 2% of wage earners is not factual. The tax rates are scheduled to expire beginning in 2011. This is due to the fact the Repubs in charge of the House of Reps during the 2001 session were under PayGo rules and had to pay for all initiatives. They put in place this tax structure in order to pay for many of the off-budget items and earmarks President Bush used to fund the war and other illegal initiatives. Now, the time bomb is set to explode, they have the best of both situations because they can now blame the “tax increase” on the Obama Administration.

Southern Comfort

September 20th, 2010
2:12 pm

Jimmy

When it comes to “time bombs”, both parties are equally culpable in that department.

mm

September 20th, 2010
2:15 pm

I love how the tea party nutzoids are rooting out the borrow and spend republcans. Now the country will send these nutzoids back to the rocks they crawled our from under. You blew it GOP.

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:16 pm

@Jimmy62

If President Bush had not put in place the TARP funding, your financial position would be gridlock; no ATM, no checks cashed, no purchase of food, utilities, gasoline. What would you do?

I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

September 20th, 2010
2:17 pm

Aahhh, a headline created for the enjoyment of the dimwits. They just have concluded the Recovery Summer party and now the Recession Is Ova. What’s next, a Full Employment Festival?

Geobbels would be proud, just sayin…

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:20 pm

Geobbels would be proud

Try not to forget that Goebbels learned his ways from Woodrow Wilson.

Normal

September 20th, 2010
2:21 pm

moonbat betty

September 20th, 2010
2:22 pm

I lay down this challenge to all. Right here, right now.

Effective immediately until Nov.3

Turn off all the power/gas/water connections to your home.

Give the car keys to your dog and let him bury them in back yard.

Use your last flush and get rid of the cellphone.

Together we can pull America out of this recession by the bootstraps!

Rafe Hollister

September 20th, 2010
2:23 pm

Bush was a socialist lite loser and I don’t excuse him in this, but I wonder if the uncertainty caused by Barry’s naivete’ and incompetance did not prolong this depression much longer than necessary. I just believe that if we had had a Romney or Forbes or someone familiar with the economy of this country in power, they would have taken meaningful steps to stem this disaster on Jan 09.

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
2:24 pm

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:20 pm
Geobbels would be proud

Try not to forget that Goebbels learned his ways from Woodrow Wilson.

And Woodrow Wilson was a Progressive.

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:26 pm

This article might be of note/ interest / use to some readers who may be over-considering the role of the president as far as the economy and job creation go….

From Caroline Baum at Bloomberg –

http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a3IDWDT1Kfng

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

September 20th, 2010
2:27 pm

Well, we might not have any jobs, but we got Fambly Values. Or will have, when we get these Socialist Democrats out of office. It’s time to put God back in the White House and Congress.

AmVet

September 20th, 2010
2:28 pm

betty, you lead the way, OK? (Yeah, I thought so…)

You history buffs don’t understand that Herbert Hoover was also a “progressive”. Jeez, no wonder you call yourselves conservatives…

@@

September 20th, 2010
2:29 pm

This doesn’t sound very encouraging.

“The committee decided that any future downturn of the economy would be a new recession and not a continuation of the recession that began in December 2007.”

Will the NEXT one (sure to hit) be Obama’s.

jay, people are not squiggly lines.

A while yet? I predict ten years.

Abrazos

September 20th, 2010
2:29 pm

“…a headline created for the enjoyment of the dimwits…Geobbels would be proud, just sayin…”

Before throwing around the “dimwits” label at others, you might want to run a Spellcheck first if you’re not familiar with Joseph GOEBBELS, not GEOBBELS.

Bob

September 20th, 2010
2:29 pm

Jackie, I thought dems just passed paygo. I think the cuts were passed under reconcilliation and thats why they were for ten years and not permanent.

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:29 pm

I know the lib world is all abuzz with this story of the recession ending in June 2009, but there is dark cloud inside your silver lining. If we slip back into recession it will now have to be defined as a brand spanking new one since you’ve now exceeded the time span that would let you get away with calling it a double dip and blaming Bush.

N-GA

September 20th, 2010
2:31 pm

There were many things that got us to where we are…not the least of which was year after year of easy credit. I also place a lot of blame on the Walmart syndrome. When Sam was alive he took great pride in putting “Made in the USA” signage on merchandise displays. After he died his heirs and their hired execs immediately went with the profit-at-any-cost model of retailing. Walmart told manufacturers that they needed to lower prices even if it meant manufacturing everything overseas. So that’s exactly what they did. Just take a small notepad into Walmart and write down the country of origin for the products you see.

That model became the success model for millions. I’ve observed it close up. Someone decides to sell a stud finder. They get in touch with Chinese engineers and pay for a design. Then Chinese manufacturers produce it and ship it in containers emblazoned with the word “COSCO” which stands for China Ocean Shipping Company, the largest shipping company in the world. The American entrepreneur then markets the heck out of (sells it to Walmart or using infomercials). The price (keeping this simple) is $10. For arguments sake, lets say that $5 of that $10 stays here in the USA in the form of profits, marketing expense, etc. Little to no US labor was employed and half of all revenues went to China. Multiply this times and you see why our balance of trade has become such a problem. Perhaps you can then understand why the value of the US dollar has collapsed. Don’t delude yourself and think that gold/silver is now worth more. Its worth about the same. It just takes more (near)worthless dollars to buy it. Is our government complicit in this? Certainly! But then again who does our government really represent?

paleo-neo-Carlinist

September 20th, 2010
2:32 pm

Rafe, the “run America like a business” mantra is foolish. but, if you believe so, you can’t simply dismiss Bush as “socialist lite” and move on. Bush wasn’t a “socialist” he was a robber barron (or at the very least, owned by robber barrons). ideology was the pitch to America, it wasn’t what guided him. people like W are devoid of ideology. it’s amazing how the word “entitlement” has been conscripted by the right, when plutocrats like Bush are CONSUMED by a sense of entitlement (which they present as god-fearing patriotism). and what was it we heard about Bush (and hear about Obama)? Bush “ran companies” (into the ground, but hey, he ran them). Bush had “executive experience” (governor of Texas, where all he had to do was sign death warrants to keep the Repulic happy). Bush didn’t run America like a business, he ran it like a hedge fund (well, the folks who ran Bush ran it like a hedge fund).

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:32 pm

If you want jobs in GA, vote Roy Barnes – at least he can help provide a better business environment.

If you want to waste another 8 years and watch people move out of state, vote for Deal, who will be so preoccupied with staying out of bankruptcy and jail that he won’t have time to actually run the state.

Jimmy62

September 20th, 2010
2:33 pm

Jackie: For a short time, perhaps. However, the free market, if allowed to work freely, can work miracles. There were still plenty of entities out there with money to spend and a desire to make more. Very, very quickly these people and businesses would have filled the void brought about by the fall of major creditors. Why? Because there was a buck to be made. Instead we filled hole with taxpayer dollars and allowed the failures to stay on top and make that buck. And now we have the losers who caused much of this in the first place still running things (which is why you see half of Obama’s [and Bush's] financial advisors are former Goldman Sachs executives).

Basically what happened is the politicians at the time (Bush as Pres, and various Dems in Congress) told you that life would turn to hell if they didn’t give all these people money. And you let them scare you, you didn’t consider alternatives, and you trapped us in this mess. Who claims that credit markets would have frozen, that store shelves would have been empty? The very people who benefited from TARP, the stimulus, and the bailouts. The politicians and business leaders of failed enterprises.

I could have handled a few days of low grocery supplies in return for a cleaned out economy. Instead we will suffer for years, and perhaps bring down our country. Fear did this, fear created by former Goldman Sachs executives, the very people who benefited most from all this mess. Because without TARP and bailouts and stimulus, Goldman Sachs would no longer exist. Instead we have failures running it, and we punish people who stayed away from toxic assets, and those are the very people we should be listening to, not punishing.

Bosch

September 20th, 2010
2:33 pm

“Now, the time bomb is set to explode, they have the best of both situations because they can now blame the “tax increase” on the Obama Administration.”

Very astute Jackie, very astute.

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:33 pm

@Bob

Sorry. PAYGO rules were implemented in 1990, as part of the Clinton Administration’s effort to get the deficit under control.

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1148683

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:34 pm

Wonder how many scandals will occur for Deal between now and election day? You’d think the last 3 scandals would be enough to put his ratings in the dump, but apparently not so….

You would think Ostrich’s would eventually learn to take their head out of the hole….

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
2:35 pm

“You history buffs don’t understand that Herbert Hoover was also a “progressive”. Jeez…”

And we all know how well his policies worked, don’t we? Jeeez.

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:37 pm

Sorry. PAYGO rules were implemented in 1990, as part of the Clinton Administration’s effort to get the deficit under control.

I haven’t visited the link, but Clinton didn’t even take office until 1993.

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:38 pm

Vote for the gubernatorial candidate that doesn’t need your campaign donation….

Ok. I’ll stop now.

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:39 pm

@Jimmy

Your concept sounds plausible, but unworkable. If you do not have a repository for your money, the medium of exchange, how do you purchase anything? Since many of our financial transactions are electronic, with the network shutdown, you had no means of doing anything. You couldn’t even go to the bank to complete any transaction.

Time would have been your biggest enemy, as there would have been an immediate shortage of food and energy. How long would it have lasted?

Paul

September 20th, 2010
2:41 pm

RedNeck Convert

“It’s time to put God back in the White House”

You mean…. the man in the White House…. isn’t the Messiah?

Well… I guess that’s good news…. at least we’re sure God isn’t a Mooslim.

Matti

September 20th, 2010
2:42 pm

How can “the worst” be over? I’m not seeing it. First of all, it’s friggin’ MONDAY, all friggin’ day. Second, the bile of human hatred still flows freely in America, where Americans hate Americans in the name of unity… or whatever garbage their excuse for nastiness is today. Third, I still have my job (friggin’ yay) but raises, when they do happen, have not kept me on top of the rising costs of everything. Would LOVE to explore other opportunities, but there are so few of them out there, and striking out on my own puts me and my family in an insurance coverage catch-22. So here I sit, stuck in another Monday, listening to the people who HAVE the most complain the most. Whiners. Ooops… looks like the open bile duct thing is contagious. Gesundheit!

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:43 pm

@Bosch

Thank you!

Navris

September 20th, 2010
2:44 pm

Although a good portion of you have very many good points to bring to the table and any combination of 2 or more of them will end it for good. The Empire that is, well at least as we know it, it is no longer the USA and the rest of the world, one day you all have to accept it sooner or later, sooner will be better for you. Michio Kaku spoke about the lack of Level one societies ANSWER- self destruction get ready.

Th for the big one

September 20th, 2010
2:46 pm

The economy is in the tank. Everyone knows it. Most of us don’t think the Obama program has been sucessful. We sure see the disaster of high unemployment and failing busiensses. We know that the future shocks of increasing taxes and healthcare burdens are yet to be felt.
I feel like Obama has always been clueless about the economy. In the beginning he was glad for a tough economy so that he could blame Bush and get his agenda passed. It never seems to have occured to him that he might actually be responsible for something. Now we are two years on and Obamanomics is a failure. Now he is out of ideas and hopes we won’t notice.

Rafe Hollister

September 20th, 2010
2:46 pm

Paleo: Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush. I agree with some of what you said, but all we get is generalities regarding Bush. Where is the oil he suppossedly faught a war for, why are the Texas Rangers in first place, what company did he bankrupt. He was a very poor president, but looking back much better than what we have now. He showed he had no ideology when he tried to bankrupt us with his Medicare Part D, donot hole crap. He was trying to fulfill his stupid “compassionate conservative charade”.

Now lets talk about Barry, one statement is all that is necessary. His social justice ideology trumps common sense and economic prosperity for America.

Rafe Hollister

September 20th, 2010
2:47 pm

fought vice faught, gov school education yall.

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:47 pm

jm,

The way Barnes is spending on advertising Deal could get out of debt today just by selling Barnes some ad space on his website.

williebkind

September 20th, 2010
2:48 pm

The downturn will end in November. I will REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

September 20th, 2010
2:48 pm

The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades.

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:48 pm

big one – dats because Obama’s not too bright.

Job retraining, as Billy Clinton pointed out on MTP on Sunday, would work miracles for job creation since there are 7 million open but unfilled job positions sitting there currently.

That, and I’ll add, lower taxes would help (but only with lower government spending).

Jimmy62

September 20th, 2010
2:48 pm

Jackie: A lot less time than the fallout from doing otherwise will last. Whatever these latest numbers say, the underlying problems are still there and we are fooling ourselves if we think they will just disappear.

I said it when it happened and I will say it now: We could have had some pain then, and then moved on. Instead we covered up the problem, and set ourselves up for a lot more pain later. Later still hasn’t come, but it is coming, and a week without groceries or ATMs will seem like a walk in the park compared to what’s coming.

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:49 pm

RW – true…

Bosch

September 20th, 2010
2:49 pm

RW@ 2:47,

That was a good one.

Paul

September 20th, 2010
2:49 pm

Normal

Just read the Klein piece. Thing is, these are the only people who talk about reducing the deficit. Republicans kinda sorta mutter about it and Democrats, well, they’re so quiet about it the Pres had to nominate a commission just so he’d think a couple Dems were even thinking about it.

Which leaves the loud and raucous Tea Partiers and those courting them. And if they’re the only ones asking the voters to dance…..

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
2:51 pm

Liberal Chicks are UGLY

You’re correct. Doesn’t Michelle resemble Patrick Ewing?

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:53 pm

@RW

You are correct about the beginning of the Clinton Administration. However, PAYGO rules were pushed heavily by Senator Al Gore (R-TN).

jm

September 20th, 2010
2:54 pm

Oh good Jay – THE GEORGIA WATER WARS MADE IT INTO THE ECONOMIST MAGAZINE.

Wonder how many corporate relocations we can get now?…. although I’m 99% sure every CEO in America is already aware of ATL’s water problems.

http://www.economist.com/node/17043462

stands for decibels

September 20th, 2010
2:56 pm

How about if we just re-design our money? that might fix everything.

http://richardsmith.posterous.com/tag/dollarredeign

RW-(the original)

September 20th, 2010
2:56 pm

Senator Al Gore (R-TN)

Jackie,

So it’s that darned Republican Al Gore’s brainchild eh?

Geez…

Jimmy62

September 20th, 2010
2:56 pm

Paul: The election of O’Donnell tells me the voters would prefer a nutcase to more of the same, and I’m right there with them. If none of the “establishment” options will put some serious effort in to cutting spending (you can talk about raising taxes, but not until you make some serious spending cuts first), then we’ll vote for an outsider who will, no matter how kooky they are.

The response from the Dems and GOP should be to find some new blood who are serious about cutting spending and waste in government, but instead they give us more of the same, and whine about how they can’t cut spending because then we will have no cops, and what about the children? Sorry, but there are lots of government spending initiatives that can be cut that won’t involve police, teachers, and firefighters, and we know it. But that’s the only stuff incumbents will talk about because they want you to fear cuts in spending, and welcome increased taxes, because it increases their own wealth and power at your expense.

Rafe Hollister

September 20th, 2010
2:58 pm

RW: I said the other day that Roybama could get 90% of the vote if he would pay off the Raw Deal debt and just tell the folk that, “It was just the Chrischun thang to do, to help a fellar man in need.”

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
2:59 pm

@JImmy62

Everything I have read about the TARP funding indicates the USA and the rest of the world were in deep yogurt. If the TARP money had not gone to bail out Goldman and AIG, everything would have collapsed on itself because there would have been any liquidity in the system.

From what I have read, there was more than $54 Trillion dollars in credit default swaps, derivatives and other unregulated credit items.

If there was a dearth of liquidity in the system, do you believe the big corporations that control food, water, energy, health care would have become benevolent overnight?

Harry Callahan

September 20th, 2010
2:59 pm

I’d like to congratulate AmVet for the funniest post ever ona Bookman blog…and by the way, AmVet, are you currently wearing a tinfoil hat? LOL…

“AmVet

September 20th, 2010
1:33 pm
SoCo, I’m guessing that that bit of wisdom alludes to the idea that what we need are a return to those successful years under GWB.

There is nobody in Washington who has the guts to even address, much less stand up to the corporate titans of malfeasance and criminal negligence.

Because they lack any moral courage, these DemReps are not the men who will try to fundamentally change the failed status quo.

“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis?)attributed to Abraham Lincoln

Whoever wrote it could not have been more prescient though…”

Matti

September 20th, 2010
2:59 pm

Nothing impresses the babes like an unlayable poot whose conversational repertoire is dominated by his loud observations of finding certain women physically unattractive. Whoooooo, baby! That’s SOOOOOOOOOO hot! :roll:

Jackie

September 20th, 2010
3:01 pm

@RW

Al Gore, Republican?
Thanks for pointing that out.

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
3:01 pm

Owl Gore a Republican?

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
3:03 pm

Matti, you must be a Liberal “lady”.

jm

September 20th, 2010
3:04 pm

The only solution to Georgia’s water and jobs problem: direct and facilitate growth to other parts of the state with intrastate high speed rail.

Why?

Because the second tier cities in Georgia (Savannah, Augusta, Athens, Macon, Columbus) are too small to merit efficient air travel.

Because the only way to enable these cities to grow is to connect them efficiently with the Atlanta airport so they can conduct international business efficiently.

Because these other cities have different or larger water sources.

Because then people could actually commute from other parts of the state to work in Atlanta, or vice versa, so everyone benefits.

I think Atlanta’s best days are over. Our state needs to resemble NC more demographically if it is going to work well, with multiple prosperous, large, growing cities (Charlotte-Raleigh-Durham-Asheville-Wilmington).

(Exit soap box)

Paul

September 20th, 2010
3:04 pm

Harry Callahan

Yawn.

Are you going to agree or disagree with any of AmVet’s points or those of the ‘attributed to’ quote, or are you just going to engage in name-calling?

Jimmy62

September 20th, 2010
3:05 pm

Jackie: Overnight? No. But again, there were businesses and individuals with plenty of money, and they would have rushed to fill the holes, and make a bundle for themselves. And that $54 trillion you mentioned? Still there, still unsolved, still waiting to destroy us. All we did was put on a bandaid for short term gain, but the wound never got treated and now we’ve got sepsis. Coulda spent a short time resting back in 2008, but we didn’t, and now we may have to lose the whole leg.

AmVet

September 20th, 2010
3:06 pm

mystery meat, you don’t get sarcasm do you?

And Hairy, you don’t get anything. (Other than the occasional STD?)

neo, I read a great line over at Wingfield’s the other day…

American business is against socialism until it benefits them.

Matti

September 20th, 2010
3:08 pm

Great and Powerful,

Forgive me. (**fans self**) I am unable to answer your question, as I am still REELING, faint, and weak in the knees from the very thought of how HOT you must be.

I Am The Great and Powerful Community Organizer

September 20th, 2010
3:10 pm

Oh Matti…I understand…Liberal women swoon, and faint at the mere sight of The Teleprompter and myself. Why…hee hee….remember on the campaign trail, they were falling like snowflakes…teehee teehee…

eddy

September 20th, 2010
3:11 pm

In Lake Woebegone, the recession has ended, jobs are plentiful, deficits are gone and surpluses prevail, crime is non-existent, everyone graduates from high school and attends college, illegitimate births are no longer, the family unit is intact and all is right with the world. The world of fantasy is something, isn’t it……..