U.S. voters grieving for a world that won’t return

AMEN, brother.

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For years Big Business and Congress have been obsessed with short-term gain. This has carried over to the general public and now the chickens have come home to roost. Many Americans now have to swallow the bitter pills of reality and maturity.

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Well, many Americans were not ready to hear the hard truth about the economy in the last election. The few candidates expressing real plans to solve the problems were shoved aside for “Hope”. It really will take more than hope, no matter how much that may raise our spirits.

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carlos – “For years Big Business and Congress have been obsessed with short-term gain”

individuals / households, too. not just in their purchasing habits, but their investing habits, as well (which did nothing but reinforce short-term decisions by big business).

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Yeah, we’ll be sitting pretty once we get the unknown tea party candidates into office.

Each one a Sara Palin-quality leader: “I’m here to represent you, my constituents, and do the job you voted me in to do…oh, wait, BOOK TOUR! Good-bye! Nice knowing youse. Good luck!”

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“This is part of a process of denial, anger and bargaining, followed only later by acceptance, that we just have to work our way through to get to the other side. It isn’t pretty, but it’s probably necessary.”

yep, and that pretty much sums up all the “Hope” we were hearing about. Suckers.

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Its gonna take time for corrections to be made. We went through a depression once and its knocking at the door again. Can we find leaders willing to solve the problems? Sorry, but what do the repubs have to offer?

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but what do the repubs have to offer?

That’s the $64,000 question!

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Time to go pay for “Shock an Awe”.

Im out

( And so he bowed, kissed, held hands)(Bush)

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“The structural problems, however, go well beyond these mismatches. The reason there were 8 million additional jobs back in 2007 is that demand for goods and services was artificially – and unsustainably – inflated by cheap, plentiful credit.”

That’s what I’ve been screaming forever. However, I disagree that no one has the answers. We have to get our fiscal house in order. Hard times are coming and if we don’t get our debt in order and under control we will be swamped. Watch I.O.U.S.A. for non-partisan details.

It will not be fun but it is necessary.

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Hows that hopey, changey thing working for you ?
A real winner, he had ALLLLLLL the answers during the campaign.
But NOOOOOO one else was qualified to be president.
Transparency.

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Jay,

The problem with the American people not being ready to hear it….THAT DOESN’T MATTER! Leaders should lead. Even when no one wants to hear it and even if it costs them their little seat of power. We have very few real leaders left. Everyone wants to keep their butt groove in their little chair and they’ll lie to do it. If they aren’t willing to tell the truth then they are not leaders.

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Deep Throat:

Looks like we’re on the same page @ 8:42 ………………..

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The Republicans will reduce taxes on businesses and people who actually pay taxes that will fix the economy. It’s proven time and time again. Check your history!

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giving control of Congress to Republicans

Don’t like the idea of having to “work” for something? Want the American people to just “give” it to them? Typical.

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Government is not the answer. Get rid of Government Mandated Speed Limit and watch people speed. Government is a restrictor and not a pump.

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dB – 8:45 – seriously.

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Obama had all the answers

Sorry to leave you out, Grumpy.

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In a time when people and companies are deleveraging, casting aside the debt that fueled the house of cards bubble in the last decade, why is government doubling down and piling up debt at a record level? Are our leaders so arrogant that they think they can do as they please?
Would the architects of one failed, bloated and mismanged stimulus program sell us another?
We don’t need government to “fix” the problem. We need government to stop being the problem.

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This is what I’ve been saying for so long now and I can only hope that since the bulk of the message was in the Post, those naysaying ostriches will wake-up (it’s been a long ten year sleep cycle) and get their heads up out of that sand and stop drinking the kool-aid!! Turn off those foxy folks and get back to the real world…

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The key to new jobs is to put a govt in charge that businesses (and Wall St.) like. Right now, they don’t like how our government is running (or ruining) things. Businesses are making money, but simply sitting on that profit and not reinvesting because of our current administration. So, if you want jobs, vote GOP in Nov and again in 2012.

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Sorry Guys, Mr. Pearlstein in just another “journalist” repeating the 1980 Jimmy Carter claim that the American Dream is dead. When we realize that we need to stop the bleed of manufacturing jobs overseas then we will start to come out of this. We need to stop giving the United States away to foreign countries one job at a time.

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Yeah, I don’t remember Obama saying he had all the answers. Just empty platitudes. Apparently that’s enough to give people thrills up their legs and get you elected. The sad thing is it will happen again in 2012. Maybe we’ll be able to call in or text our votes in 2012. Quick, soemeone get Seacrest on the phone….Webb, out.

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Won’t come back, no matter how much the govt spends. Absolutely correct. So stop spending it.

One slight correction: “Somewhere between the rantings of the Republican right, which is peddling the nonsense that excessive government spending is to blame for high unemployment…”

No, spending is not to blame for unemployment. Spending is to blame for increased debt. Unemployment, as correctly identified later on, is a result of markets overblown and oversold that have come back to earth.

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Conservatives have remedies for getting this country back on tract from Obama’s socialist agenda. Tax cuts and less government will give us back our freedom, liberty and economy.

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“when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals”

Bubba – you think this is megalomania??? (hint: A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence)

gosh, then I guess Reagan’s “morning in America” meant he was a megalomaniac, too. and JFK’s “Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us” and so forth and so on …

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I grieve for those voters who are not getting the things that were not promised by the man they did not vote for.

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“Apparently that’s enough to give people thrills up their legs ”

which beat the hell out of the chill down my spine I got from McCain/Palin.

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Bubba – you think this is megalomania???

Think he meant to type “uppity.”

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Judging 1/2 of these emails most would not even recognize a good economy if it was placed in front of them.

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Agree with everything he wrote, but I would add that although excessive government spending may not be the root cause of job loss, it will be the cause of many other problems. This is another thing the people aren’t ready to hear, but one way or another they are going to find out.

Here is another reality: our education system does not adequately prepare our workers to compete with foreign workers, and most of the jobs being created as we go forward will be jobs that can be competed for by foreign workers. It was difficult for foreigners to compete when there was more manufacturing, but that is not the case now. And no, the problem with education is not money.

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UsinUK,
Maybe it’s just me, but Palin is far more likely to give me a thrill up my leg than Obama ever could. But then again that has nothing to do with economic policy, nor governance.

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USink,

You know what I meant when I posted that quote. Don’t pull out one line. I was trying to be honest and put his finishing sentence in there instead of leaving it out. So do you think the other sentences are just plain normal talk?

decibels, if you think ‘uppity’ is racist then more power to you. I don’t. Anybody can be uppity. However, I don’t think Obama is uppity. I do think he is a megalomaniac.

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“Judging 1/2 of these emails most would not even recognize a good economy if it was placed in front of them”

okay. I’ll bite. what’s a good economy, BK? (however, please avoid using their/there/they’re, since you seem incapable of distinguishing between them)

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ty – 9:03 – okay, now, that was funny.

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Gordon 9:02 – second that. Perhaps the Republicans will put a course correction on the budget. If they do, I think in the long run that’s a good idea. However, I doubt their willpower. Austerity is never popular. And during the Bush years the flunked the fiscal discipline test.

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“I was trying to be honest and put his finishing sentence in there instead of leaving it out. So do you think the other sentences are just plain normal talk?”

ohfercryingoutloud … you do realize that what you’re asking is “when you take these sentences out of context, don’t you think he’s a nutter?”

first of all, nowhere in there did he say HE was the be-all, end-all – nowhere in there did he say HE was going to make all that happen. those sentences were loaded with WE’s, not I’s

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The Republicans may not have all the answers, but at least they keep spending us into oblivion like Obama and the Democrats.

Was it really crucial to the American economy and American jobs to waste stimulus money on crap like this?

Examples of wasteful projects include:

• $554,763 for the Forest Service to replace windows in a closed visitor center at Mount St. Helens

• $762,372 to create “Dance Draw” interactive dance software

• $62 million for a tunnel to nowhere in Pittsburgh, PA that even Governor, Ed Rendell called “a tragic mistake”

• $1.9 million for international ant research

• $1.8 million for a road project that is threatening a pastor’s home

• $308 million for a joint clean energy venture with…BP

• $89,298 to replace a new sidewalk that leads to a ditch in Boynton, OK

• $3.8 million for a “streetscaping” project that has reduced traffic and caused a business to fire two employees

• $16 million to help Boeing to clean up an environmental mess it created in 2007

• $200,000 to help Siberian communities lobby Russian policy makers

• $39.7 million to upgrade the statehouse and political offices in Topeka, Kansas

• $760,000 to Georgia Tech to study improvised music

• $700,000 to study why monkeys respond negatively to inequity

• $193,956 to study voter perceptions of the economic stimulus

• $363,760 to help NIH promote the positive impacts of stimulus projects

• $456,663 to study the circulation of Neptune’s atmosphere

• $529,648 to study the effects of local populations on the environment…in the Himalayas

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Bubba – “I don’t see a strong middle class”

considering how much the middle class has suffered over the last 3 years (to the benefit of the top 1%), I don’t see a STRONG middle class in the US, either, and that’s nothing to do with socialism -

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Idiot of the day award goes to:

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&biw=1591&bih=971&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=pastor+terry+jones&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Gotta love free speech….

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USink,

Loaded with ‘we’s’. Where are the ‘we’s’ now? Looking for him to solve everything. That’s the problem with that kind of talk. It’s all fluff and doesn’t solve anything.

If the we’s would really get interested in doing something then maybe it would be different.

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Their donors are happy.

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Bubba,

Please give me an example of the socialism that the government is pushing. Enough with the empty rhetoric and hyperbole.

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Some are concerned about the shrinking middle class; so what!!

Here in the USA we have the the richest poor people in the world:
-USA poor live on average in a 1200 sq foot area.
-Live with heat & AC.
-Have cell phones & TV’s.
-Have a car.
-Wear designer sneakers.
-Get a education.

Whats wrong with being poor in the USA? Perhaps a good economy & social status is all a state of mind.

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Our political leaders haven’t come to grips with that reality yet, and neither have the American people. What we’re seeing in the body politic right now is a primal scream of denial, an insistence that easy answers be found — right now!

I beg your pardon. Some Americans (dems) don’t live in the real world. But there ARE those of us, who live by the old axiom, “A failure to plan is a plan to fail.”

Worry not! How many times has this administration told their supporters, they will either save or create them? Suffering from delusions of grandeur, they…and their supporters buy the wool off their spinning wheel.

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Bosch, if you want the full reports, look them up yourself. Unlike USinUk and some others around here, I actually have a real job and can’t spend all day skiving.

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“Bosch, if you want the full reports, look them up yourself. Unlike USinUk and some others around here, I actually have a real job and can’t spend all day skiving.”

Translation: I copied and pasted that from something that someone made up.

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Government won’t tell people the truth about the economy,
1. They the government does not have a clue.
2. They are liars.
3. They waitng on the hopey changey thing.
4. All the above.

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Bosch,

Headline, NYTIMES, 11/06/2009 – “Democrat Gives Up Single-Payer Measure to Back Party Leaders”

They wanted a single-payer (socialist) system. They backed off, for now. It’s not in my head.

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Scout wrote at 8:42 “Thanks liberals and Democrats. Our country will forever remember you for starting a decline that may never recover.”
Because in January of 2009, the US economy was at the peak of wonderful. Then liberals and Democrats ruined it all by starting two wars, deregulating everything, overseeing the failure of the banking system, cutting taxes on the rich to run up the deficit, and for 6 years a Democratic president didn’t veto a single spending bill sent to him by a Democrat controlled Congress. Oh, wait, that was the Republicans.

I think Scout meant to write “Thanks conservatives and Republicans. Our country will forever remember you for starting a decline that may never recover”

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Bubba – 9:18 – I definitely don’t disagree with that post. that’s why many of them are referred to as “sheeple”

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“That’s why, less than two years after handing overwhelming victory to the Democrats, voters appear set to toss them aside and cast their lot with the Republicans next.”

It’s not a refusal to accept reality on the part of voters, Jay. They largely opposed the stimulus, which Obama told us would keep unem,ployment at 8%. It didn’t work. Unemployment is at ten. Instead of admitting the pork-laden stimulus was a mistake, Obama dreamed up the unprovable “saved or created” idea to try, desperately, to convince us he hadn’t wasted 800 billion of our tax dollars.

Now, is throwing these bums out a refusal to accept economic reality, or is it the natural and justified reaction to an obviously failed policy?

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“How’s that Hopey Changey thing goin?” Not as well as we’d like, but it’s a lot better than McCain’s actions. If he hasn’t changed his mind during the campaign from what he proposed prior, he has changed his position since. Is he a maverick or not…he was, he reveled in it, and now, he says he’s not. What about immigration, the economy,..? And would Palin still be VP since her book/talk show deal? Speaking about cut and run?

“It may be that the American people just aren’t prepared yet to hear the truth. This is part of a process of denial, anger and bargaining, followed only later by acceptance, that we just have to work our way through to get to the other side. It isn’t pretty, but it’s probably necessary.”

This is our reality, at least for people wanting to understand where we are in history and where we need to go. Obama finally came out in his speech in Wisconsin Monday and stated it like it is. He shouldn’t sugar coat it. While some will say he was wrong, arrogant (now who is really arrogant?), condescending… it was the truth. If the GOP really has positions , publish them. They wanted legislation published so that it could be read prior to passage; Where are their steps-and be specific with data reflecting the outcomes, for creating jobs. No, tax breaks alone will not do it. They return only 40 cents on the dollar gained/spent, where other ideas (like building infrastructure) returns over a dollar for each dollar invested.

I don’t think that the public understands wht has happened. Sometimes I wish there was a parallel universe that would indicate the panic/additional downturn that would hav resulted from no bailout, stimulus, etc. So folks, since you are such experts in insuting Obama, saying that his policies are all wrong, why aren’t you running for office, or bolstering a financial plan that the politicians can embrace (that’s easy) but that will work?

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Bosch,

Maybe you don’t know what you aren’t seeing. One of us is wrong. Only time will tell.

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“A failure to plan is a plan to fail.”

That reminds me. What is that failed bank count up to now here in Georgia. Is it 41.

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Zedd @ 9.09, the source for your copy/pasted malarkey, please.

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The voting populace allows itself to be led into denial every election season without fail. We allow ourselves to be divided and deceived, all the while letting our attention be diverted from the most important (and obvious) truths in politics. These are, imo, that:
1. The fringe elements on both sides are exactly what they appear to be!; whack jobs and inciters who are so far-out that they would never accomplish anything of true worth even if they were elected. These people are the tools politicians use to divide us and divert attention from real issues.
2. NEITHER ideology works in their pure forms and compromise to some extent is VITAL to anything to be done to get this country out of the hole we’ve led ourselves into.

Sadly., we as a populace buy into this bunk completely and consistently, over and over again. United we stand… but we’re far from united at this point, just as these politicians want us to be.

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Bosch,

I did. Have a nice day.

I’m leaving for work.

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Bubba,

” I did. Have a nice day.”

No, you didn’t — you provided us with the reasons behind your fears, but nothing actual to tell us how it is that we are heading for socialism.

All you provided was empty rhetoric.

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Zedd – before you get all “suck it, dude!” you may want to revisit the lead-up to the stimulus bill and how much pork got thrown into the grinder by your own party … their hands aren’t lilly-white

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Don’t see a strong middle class? Some on here really need to get away from their computers and out of their bubbles. Get out and explore America, you’re spending too much time in the MSM drinking Kool-Aid. Times aren’t good but the middle class in this country is still in place. What we need is for Government to understand that in everything there are times when you need to lead, follow or get the hell out of the way. This is a time for government to get out of trying to create jobs and concentrate on the only thing it can do and that’s creating the environment for private sector job creation. Accelerated depreciation is a good move and it appears that Obama is taking a page out of Ronald Reagan’s book. It has to go further though with tax cut stimulants particularly for small business.

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Wow, what a chorus of croaking, denying frogs. Croak, croak, croak.

No, wanna know what’s really MSM-like about Perlstein? It’s the idea that even now, the way to get a handle on the situation is to start out dismissing putatively extreme, unreasonable, wayward extremes of the Left and Right. As though there exists some “reasonable center” – sort of Obama’s disease, if you will.

No, the real disease we suffer from started long, long ago. A lot further back than the early 2000s. The real denial and breakdown we’re witnessing is in many ways a resumption of the pessimism of the 1970s and early 1980s when that tired on man we elected king came into office with his neo-liberal agenda. What keeps the croaking frogs from recognizing this is that they’ve drunk that kool-aid and are identified with it, to the death. The neo-liberal agenda ruled the land for a few decades and many people grew up under it and assume it has universal value. But they’re unaware how much of a band-aid it already was even at the outset, back in 1980. That band-aid is blood-crusted now and has fallen off. So what ideology will we come up with to paper over a naked US power agenda now? Stay tuned. The Palins and Rand Pauls are trying to craft one.

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Jay, I don’t know what all the fuss is about. If you really want a job you can move to Mexico and work in a maquilladora (assembly plant) for $80/week. Not only that, you can move to China and make $200/month. In China your “communal” housing is furnished so your $200 goes a long way. If you’re really on the top of the totem pole you can move to India and get a computer based job that pays around $18,000/year–a job that would pay over $100,000/year in the U.S. So you see, Jay, work is there–you just have to know where to look.

Truth is, we have the economy multinational corporations have worked decades and many presidents for. What started out slowly turned into a full-out charge of offshoring jobs beginning around 2000 that continues to this day. Abundant, cheap overseas labor, essentially tax-free operations. So, as long as they can find someone, somewhere who still has enough money to buy the goods they produce–hey! they couldn’t be happier. Your misery? couldn’t care less.

There is one small hitch, though. A country can’t continue to import and run giant trade deficits. Eventually, it’s all going to come tumbling down. Everything I’ve read suggests that will be in 2011.

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USinUK,

I was writing Wingnutese — you know, to make it easier for them to understand.

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I am so sick of the lame excuse that we make for ourselves for not being able to compete with Asia. Have you been by the Apple store at the mall? You can’t get into those places. Look at the young visionaries like the founders of Facebook and Google. Through their ingenuity they have created a product that people want. After 30 years Microsoft is still viable.

American business has faltered from the time that we replaced the visionaries at the top with accountants and finance people. They don’t care about what the company is selling. All they care about is the stock price for the next quarter. They pad the bottom line with real estate sales and accounting magic. They bounce around from one big company to another just to line their own pockets. Don’t blame the unions for what happened to American jobs. Blame the accounting whores that can’t see past the next quarter.

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Taxpayer:

That reminds me. What is that failed bank count up to now here in Georgia. Is it 41.

I have no idea, nor do I care. My husband and I belong to a credit union. A credit union is a cooperative financial institution that is owned and controlled by its members and operated for the purpose of promoting thrift, providing credit at reasonable rates, and providing other financial services to its members.

We, the members, own it. It serves us well.

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Yes – you are right – however, there are additional causes that need to be looked at as well. Our government should have instigated a system of penalizing any company that ships their labor to overseas – yes for the sole purpose of CHEAP labor. Said companies should not be given the normal tax breaks/credits/etc. – indeed they should be taxed MORE for giving away AMERICAN jobs. NO company should ever be bailed out by the government that has given AMERICAN jobs away overseas!!! We should instigate immediately tax penalities to any company that has overseas jobs right now that Americans can do and that were sent overseas…

Equally important, is that yes – ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS have taken away jobs from AMERICANS – this has been going on for yeas and years, yet our government just stood around knowing it and DID NOTHING!! This one thing alone has ZAPPED the LIFE out of our local economies, school systems, hospitals, etc…..

In combination with your article and the above, little wonder why the jobless rate is so high!!!!! Until this things are RIGHTED, I see no hope…….

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Taxpayer – ask and ye shall receive

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

and the winning number is 43

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“Can you explain to me who the hell Coburn thinks he is by evaluating projects and deeming them wasteful? I mean who put him in charge of stimulus project assessment?”

The good people of the state of Oklahoma.

Why wouldn’t a senator object to money he or she thinks is being wasted? We need more of that, not less. He’s doing his job.

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Deegee: “American business has faltered from the time that we replaced the visionaries at the top with accountants and finance people.”

You’re on to something here, Deegee, but I think you’re still losing your way at just the crucial point.

Ask yourself this: why is it that the “visionaries” (by which I assume you meant the old wise Capitalists in the Fordist model? the Iacoccas and Welches?) were replaced with financial men, money-crunchers? Why do you think that would have happened? And, as I suggested above, why do you think this would have started happening in the mid-1970s and continue into the 90s and 2000s, with the terminal stage of the process being the one we’re currently in?

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Our government should have instigated a system of penalizing any company that ships their labor to overseas – yes for the sole purpose of CHEAP labor. Said companies should not be given the normal tax breaks/credits/etc. – indeed they should be taxed MORE for giving away AMERICAN jobs.

Has old age affected my hearing and memory, or am I correct in recalling an Obama campaign promise of penalizing through the tax system those companies that shipped jobs overseas?

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Gordon,

He can object all he wants, but he’s not doing the research or the projects, and his opinions on whether or not HE thinks they are worthy — doesn’t mean crap.

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Since I am not a card carrying member of either party, I hope you will forgive me if I make too much sense. Besides the worn out TAX CUT solution that the GOP continues to ride into the ground, can someone give me any clue as to what they have in their bag of tricks to magically reduce the defecit, return unemployment to 3%, and bring back all of the jobs that have been bled out over the last 30 years? I’d like to hear them since I’ll be one of those folks that is going to see my taxes increase due to my income. However, right now I’m just not convinced that the GOP is going to do a whole lot better than the current party in power.

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Deep Throat —

It depends on the project or the individual research being done.

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Gail, if we penalize companies for sending cheap labor overseas, then the ‘middle class’ won’t be able to afford their products.

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BMD – “if we penalize companies for sending cheap labor overseas, then the ‘middle class’ won’t be able to afford their products”

the middle class can’t afford them, anyway, because their JOBS went overseas!

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BMDPD, maybe the problem lies in the fact that we have an artificially inflated Middle Class?

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Doggone – JINX – you owe me a coke

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The GOP runs the country in the ground and people don’t see it, too bad for the suckup sheep that are looking for crumbs, they too will suffer.

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USinUK – I do indeed!

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HillBilly – don’t get me started on Alan Greenspan.

I don’t have a vein in the middle of my forehead, but if I did, it would be THROBBING!

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Jay,
While we know which are the longest lines in America today, the unemployment line for one, I think it would be helpful to point out the shortest. First the lines at military recruiting centers, often avoided by Right wing sabre rattlers and chicken hawks. Also short is the line of those willing to sacrifice by paying higher taxes or accept cuts in Social Security and Medicare, or both. This line is especially avoided by the Right wing demagogues and hypocrites.

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Govt. spending on infrstructure will put money in the hands of consumers, so they can start buying products. That is the best thing we can do right now. Plus letting the tax cuts for the rich expire. And then raise them more. That would help more.

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What is scary about this waiting while we work out the excesses of overspending, is that we don’t really see what the recovery will look like.

My image of a wonderful economy is one of big industries with lots of jobs, particularly manufacturing jobs. I don’t think we are ever going back there, so I don’t know what there will be that can be the job creator for the economy. I don’t think an economy can be sustained that just produces services. We can only have so many restaurants, banks, health care workers, accountants, etc. We need to make things that others want. Or, we need to be the place other countries come to for services. I heard about another U.S. business that has “out-sourced” its accounting department – to Sri Lanka!!!!!

I think we have to get back to being a country that exports more than we import. I mean, isn’t there a limit to how long the world will keep on buying dollars to keep us afloat?

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cons never accepted responsibility for their failed party and the collapse they never saw coming.

They want to use the same failed ideology again and expect a different result.

This argument is the definition of insanity so how do you debate insanity?

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USinUK:

As Kamchak would say, “you must be under the illusion that I work for you.”

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… so, will Fidel get any applause from the GOP for this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/fidel-castro-blasts-ahmad_n_708592.html

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Scout – 10:09 – to what are you referring?

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Have you been out to dinner on the weekends? There is a waiting line at every chain steak/seafood/Italian/etc. eating joint. There were 300,000 people in town over the weekend at conventions, ballgames, and other events, and they were spending money like there was no tomorrow. If you have a good, safe job, there is no recession per say. I look around myself and say “What recession’?

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Clearly, what we need to do is get more money on trains and in planes and cars and boats and such instead of in the hands of pedestrians.

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Usik why do you refuse to see the problems of today, why can’t you acknowledge that the present admin. does not know how to correct the economy or won’t ?
Why won’t you admit the present admin has failed to live up to campaign promises ?

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“why can’t you acknowledge that the present admin. does not know how to correct the economy or won’t ?”

And who, pray tell, CAN fix the economy? Do you think McCain would have done the job? Maybe Sarah Palin? And what does it look like when it IS fixed?

“Why won’t you admit the present admin has failed to live up to campaign promises ?”

Like what? Do you hold every politician to that standard?

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USinUK:

If you don’t remember …………………………

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I sure miss these two ……………………

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uA5f_d4xM

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Scout – 10:22 – I have no idea what you’re referring to. either reference it or let it go.

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Borsch , he was not suposed to be like every politician. You were duped by a clown.

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Tax rates won’t change anything, just talking points to incite.

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I think maybe Bookman has a good, firm grip on the obvious.

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Deeo Throat, you can. My point is that all these blogs are comprised of the same drivel ” the Obama adminstreation is destroying the country” and “we have to get the GOP back in as soon as possible”. My problem is that I have yet to see any compelling evidence that the GOP has a plan to actually make things better. I’m not a cheerleader for the current adminstration either, but until I am provided with some facts from the other side as to why we should put them back in the drivers seat, I continue to remain objective.

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Ever since we gave the world NAFTA in the 90’s, our manufacturing base was given away.
Manufacturing was the heart and soul of this country. It will not come back, so we are a service base country now, that produces nothing. Bring back manufactor’s, then jobs will come back. Job’s come back, we rock and roll again

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USinUK:

Isn’t it about your bedtime ?

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TaxPayer – 10:25 – I was thinking more like Mask of the Red Death

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Deep Throat,

He was not supposed to be like other politicians? And you believe that? Sounds like you were the one duped. Me? I think he’s doing a good job considering the circumstances — I knew he wasn’t going to have everything fixed in a jiffy — I for one, do not think that is the sole responsibility of the POTUS and hold him personally responsible for every little thing that doesn’t work. If you do, then more power to you.

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scout

What brought us to the brink in sept 08? How come repubs refuse to take responsiblity for the state of the country? We did all the tax cutting, we kept the war off the books, we used our houses as atm’s, does anybody remember the ownership society? So, you’re not happy with obama, well millions are not happy about the course the previous administration charted, yet it all has to be fixed immediately?

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Mike, I agree with you 100%. We build, we prosper. We service, we die. By the way, I love the phrase “Service Economy”. Here’s a good frame of reference. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs both created somthing and “built” somthing which continues to return profitability year afte year. John Doe works at McDonalds in the “Service” industry and barely makes minimum wage. Now, which side do you think the U.S. should be on?

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Borsch I was not duped, I did not vote for him, I do not believe him every time he blames the other party, I did not fall for that hopey changey thing, I do not think he is doing a good job. Ask the 10 persent of the people who are unemployed if hes doing a good job.

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“I do not think he is doing a good job”

Ok, so if you could get his ear for just 10 minutes…what would you suggest he do differently?

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thomas – 10:35 – “Wasn’t the house and senate and teh executive office controlled by the Democrats?”

and it’s the GOP that’s requiring a >2/3 majority on EVERY piece of legislaiton, no matter how small. The Dems don’t vote in lock-step, they never have – but show me one piece of legislation where there hasn’t been a VAST majority (with only 1 or 2 exceptions) of the GOP voting as a block, in both senses of the word

DT – “I do not believe him every time he blames the other party”

of course you don’t

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How come no one ever asks the 90% of us who are employed how we think the country is doing? Actually, I do have friends in the 10% that haven’t blamed Obama yet. They tend to blame the greedy owner of the company they used to work for becuase they no longer have a job so that he could continue to pay himself the same salary regardless of the economy. So much for sacrafice at the top.

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“Parties Tied at 46% in Generic Ballot for Congress”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/142892/Parties-Tied-Generic-Ballot.aspx

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USinUK

September 8th, 2010
10:40 am

I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?

Blame the GOp all you want but all they could do was yell and scream if the dems had of wanted it passed then they should have passed it.

Either the democrats were worried about votes and not doing what they see as correct, or the democrats truely did not believe in the bills or ideas……

I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush but somehow everything done during that time frame is blamed at republicans feet, and the last few years the democrats controlled the house and senate.

Seems you may blame more or give more credit depending on which party it makes look better…..

Unless you are one of those who thinks GWB is waaaaay smarter and a much better negotiator than President Obama?

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Idiots, LOL. I remember a couple years ago working for a company where the owners were paying themselves roughly $40,000 a month a piece, and when the revenue started to diminish, they would just throw another body on the fire. No change in their habits, just use the employees as kindling. Needless to say, that companay is no longer in exsitence.

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**I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush but somehow everything done during that time frame is blamed at republicans feet, **

That’s because they used reconciliation and the media never made it an issue. The democrats never had 60, lieberman doesn’t count.

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thomas – “I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?”

you remember wrongly. there are 57 Dems, 41 GOP and 2 Independents.

“I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush ”

no, what you don’t recall is the Dems REQUIRING a 2/3 majority on every vote.

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Doggone since you are still waiting on the hope and change what would you tell him to get on track.

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Mick

September 8th, 2010
10:48 am

Which major issues recently has he not sided with the dems?

he is more reliable than some of those actually identified as Democrats.

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“Doggone since you are still waiting on the hope and change what would you tell him to get on track”

I’m not waiting for anything. I supported Hillary Clinton. For me, the book is still open on Obama.

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DT – “Maybe I’m wrong but , I think, just think mind you, that every president has had to work with people”

oh, well done! so you’ve got half the equation … let’s look at the other half … are the people he has to work with willing to work with HIM?

where the GOP is concerned, to quote their 2010 platform in its entirety, “NO”

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Dang, DGA @ 10.43, that gallup generic poll sho’ nuff is noisy!

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“I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?”

For a few weeks, after Franken was seated, before Brown scored that open-net goal in MA. Of course it depended upon the tender mercies of Joe Lieberman, who’d previously been campaigning for John McCain…

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“So…. Tax cuts for business = too expensive. tax cuts for rich = exactly what we need”

of course, I thought it was BUSINESS that created jobs … now, we know, it’s the rich (I always liked “Upstairs, Downstairs”, now we ALL get to be the rich’s servants)

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dB – “the tender mercies of Joe Lieberman”

(shudder)

that’s a mental image I soooooooooo didn’t need this late in the afternoon

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“Now that the 10% lead has evaporated…crickets on the subject.”

damn that liberal media bias!!! (shaking fist at the screen)

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“Cutting taxes
-Faster rate of companies depreciation of assets
-Making Bush tax cuts perm”

Do you righties watch the news (note: Fox is not news)?

The Dems have passed all kinds of tax cuts in the bills they could actually get past the obstructionists. One third of the stimulus consisted of tax cuts.

Obama ofered a 100 percent exemption on depreciation of assets yesterday. Bonehead immediately said “NO”. This is an idea the republicans came up with.

These Bush tax cuts have existed for 10 years. We actually lost jobs during that time. The results speak for themselves.

The dems have tried to push through ideas the GOP endorsed 2 years ago. Now the GOP says “NO”. They blame the dems for the problems, and you believe them? Get serious.

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Well….rah rah rah

I gave you world thinkers all weekend and Labor Day to fix this PROBLEM and it aint fixed. Whatsa matter?

Bookman is lower than a snake’s belly so ignore him. Too much failing liberalism hitting him in the face.

Everybody contradicting everybody except Obama won’t do it. So push your chair away and leave that computer. We’ve got enough “thinkers”. What we need is workers with a brain. Blogging all day brings mental decay! Haven’t you noticed?

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“Even though he does caucus with the dems, he likes to play the joker card when it suits his ego.”

dammit, you just made me do a spittake … WHEN, since 2003, has Lieberman voted consistently with the Dems??? hell, he CAMPAIGNED for McCain!

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the Bush tax cuts were designed to expire. Let them.

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Deficits didn’t matter under GOP control. Deficits are just a small percentage of GDP, they said. And I saw many of you righties on this blog make the same statement. Hypocrites? You betcha.

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thomas,

does the GOP strategy for regaining power involve a “just say no” component?

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Bosch

September 8th, 2010
10:51 am

So wars are the sole fault and responsibility of teh president.

Everything else he is only one man and can only get so much done?

That seems like a fair system!

How’s that Afgan war going? or does Bush still get blame for that too? What about increase in troops?

Are you also now saying that the economy WAS NOT Bush’s fault?

Or does he still get blamed for having an (R) after his name?

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TaxPayer

September 8th, 2010
11:02 am

Does the dems startegy for remaining in power rely on blaming the republicans eventhough dems had control of house and senate for last couple of elections?

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Nothing new today, so I’ll simply repeat my post from Monday:

“The challenge we’re facing right now is that the government has traditionally been able to manipulate the economy through raising or lowering the interest rate on loans via the buying and selling of US Treasury bills. However, interest rates have been nearly 0% for quite a while now, and it’s still hasn’t been enough to stimulate business growth. Feeling like they are out of options, the only “solution” that the Feds can come up with is to balloon the deficit even more through stimulus spending. While many like to believe the failure of the first round of stimulus spending was simply due to not spending enough money over a long enough period of time, others, like RW and myself, question the sanity of trying to spend your way out of a debt-fueled recession.

I don’t have any simple answers other than we’re going to have to find ways to survive until the housing market surplus corrects itself through natural market forces. In the meantime, the Dems would do well to stop passing additional burdensome legislation like the health care bill. The fact that so many large companies are sitting on their storehouses of cash isn’t really a mystery to me: Until these “activist” Democratic legislators are thrown out on their collective rears this November, they’re better off playing the waiting game rather than expanding in an unfriendly business environment.”

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USinUK:

……….. your eyes are getting very, very heavy. You are getting sleepy. Let them close gently …………. breathe slowly ………. let yourself go …………..

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thomas,

if the Republicans had wanted permanent tax cuts when they pased them in 2001 and 2003, why didn’t they make them permanent then instead of blaming the Democrats for not making them permanent now, even though they have not even expired yet?

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a mental image I soooooooooo didn’t need

UnU, I figured if you could stomach Tbogg’s place this morning, you could stomach anything.

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USinUK

September 8th, 2010
11:00 am

Helath Care reform—– 219 in favor—-212 oppossed
Which equates to 50.8%

Stmulus Package——–244 in favor—–188 oppose
Which equates to 56.4%

Now USinUK,

Either you are a liar in your claim earlier or you intentionally tried to misrepresent figures and assumed that none would check the validity, as you made the claime twice and both times were wrong.

Be honest in debates lying just makes you look like you are reaching

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One more repeat from Monday, and I’ll leave you good folks to toss around your “Party of No” platitudes. To Jay:

“(1) Write an honest article assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Obama administration so far. Lately, your efforts have been primarily directed toward “explaining” how it really wouldn’t have mattered who was President. The mark of a true journalistic professional is objectivity. Prove to me and the gang that you are a professional.

(2) Tell me if you still believe what you wrote in your January 1, 2009 column entitled “G’bye, 2008; hello, something better?” Quoting from the article:

“So today is said to mark a new year, an artificial distinction that nonetheless wields a certain magic. The changing of the calendar has long been thought a time for renewal, for starting over, for improvement……..Now it’s almost time to put the plug back into the wall and go to work. Forget 2008 and look to the future, a message that is more compelling on this particular Jan. 1 than on most.”

Do you truly feel that Obama has lived up to the promise that you laid out in this article?? Seems like he’s just now giving lip service toward rolling up his sleeves and getting to work on what matters most to America: economic prosperity. From my perspective, it’s been a year and a half down the drain; a moving backward rather than a moving forward.”

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jewcowboy

September 8th, 2010
11:09 am

Actually it was 2007, but why worry about facts right?

So are you then saying that you advocate the party in power pushing through its agenda?

If so, what should the minority party do other than say no?

Should they just be good subjects and agree to everything?

Lets see if Democrats follow that idea of yours if they ever lose control of both houses.

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Read my lips. No more tax credits.

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Doggone/GA,

“that’s not how I see it. I see it as “Who knew so many smart people in Congress could be so stupid?””

I have a saying pasted to my desk to remind me, “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”

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mm , 11:01 you use you or your spouse use your credit cards, you try to pay them off monthly, you buy more and more before long you are just paying the minimum.
Do you keep buying and getting further behind or do you say enough ?
Seems simple to me but , oh I know, dang you work with people you have an excuse to keep spending.

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dB – 11:09 – didn’t have the time this morning – last I saw was Wembly playing with his chew toy … (good way to start my day)

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evidently Scout’s not getting enough attention today … and we all know, he will not be ignooooooored …

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Usik you proport everything that Obozo does is good , that the GOP only votes no, I do not want them to vote no , I want them to vote Hell no , no to socialism, no to Oblunder care, no to bailing out the Unions , no to more stimulus funds, no more misleading the country.

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DT – “Usik you proport everything that Obozo does is good”

oh, really? where did I say that?

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thomas,

“Actually it was 2007, but why worry about facts right?”

Actually if you are going to be snarky, get your facts right…it was 2006. Sorry for my mis-type earlier.

“So are you then saying that you advocate the party in power pushing through its agenda?”

Uh yeah…that is what being the controlling party is all about…

“If so, what should the minority party do other than say no?”

Wrangle concessions and work with the majority party to ensure the best legislative outcome.

“Should they just be good subjects and agree to everything?”

No..and neither should they uniformly oppose everything just for the sake of saying that they opposed it.

“Lets see if Democrats follow that idea of yours if they ever lose control of both houses.”

They have…can you point to any other time in history when almost every single piece of legislation required a 2/3 vote in the Senate to pass? I’m talking about some things like a budget here or there….but almost all legislation?

The Republicans plan to obfuscate their way to majority….meanwhile, seemingly, forgetting about their duty to work with he majority party to help solve the dire issues that confront the U.S. and the American people.

Democrats are by no means saints on this topic, but I’ll stake their record of working with the majority party from 2000-2006 against the Republicans from 2006 – present any day.

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In an hour-long private meeting with Republican and Democratic Congressional leaders this morning on the economic stimulus package, President Barack Obama stressed the urgency of getting the $825 billion stimulus plan passed quickly for the good of the country, and mentioned the political stakes for both parties.

According to a source present at the meeting, President Obama said, “Look, we are all political animals here, If we don’t do this, we may lose seats. I may not be re-elected. But none of that’s going to matter if we don’t pass this because the economy will be in a crisis and the American people will be hurting.”

As the president, he had told Kyl after the Arizonan raised objections to the notion of a tax credit for people who don’t pay income taxes, Obama told Cantor this morning that “on some of these issues we’re just going to have ideological differences.”

The president added, “I won. So I think on that one, I trump you.”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/i-won-president.html

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USinUK:

Maybe this will help ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXkDlVqnzHQ

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Usik 11:26
Lets see if you can do, admit one of Oblamers blunders, come you can do it , prove me wrong, I dare you, I double dog dare you.

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Longing for an America that is lost and will not return as we know it. Probably true. Breaks your heart. As the Bozo ship is sinking, the first high profile WH big wheel is leaving. Looks like Emmanuel is going to perpetuate the Democratic disaster that is Chicago by running for Mayor of that fair city on the lake. Who’s next?

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jewcowboy

September 8th, 2010
11:28 am

They are differences in principle… they should not nor should the democrats ever comprimise their prinicples.

On many of the legislation matters you speak of the GOP had and presented an alternative bill or plan. Each and everyone were rejected.

How does that not meet your requirement of trying to get the best legislation?

BTW, they won the election in 2006, but did not take office until Jan. of 2007.

So we are both right, I’m just a lil more right!

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Jewcowboy – I like that statement!

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Deep throat :

She probably won’t do that. Liberals are one way you know. They never admit their mistakes.

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thomas,

“They are differences in principle… they should not nor should the democrats ever comprimise their prinicples.”

When it is for the benefit of the American people all parties should compromise their principles…

“So we are both right, I’m just a lil more right!”

I’m willing to compromise on that

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kayaker – see my 9:40 … (after yesterday morning’s discussion, I thought you’d appreciate it)

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Some of these neocon sympathisers are full of dung.

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thomas,

“On many of the legislation matters you speak of the GOP had and presented an alternative bill or plan. Each and everyone were rejected.

How does that not meet your requirement of trying to get the best legislation?”

B/c the time for them to submit their own legislation on this, was from 1995 – 2006…why didn’t they pass their health reform plans then?

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jewcowboy

September 8th, 2010
11:40 am

The problem comes into account when what is being presented is seen as not being good for the American people….

Maybe a good thing in the present, could turn out to be horrible later on or even fatal.

I saw many of the debates being about instant gratification against long term success, and I usually see the immediate success being more about trying to purchase votes through legislation.

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USinUK

September 8th, 2010
11:43 am

what is the saying excuses are like …. everyone has one and they all stink……

keep making excuses, but people respect results.

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jewcowboy

September 8th, 2010
11:44 am

So if they didn’t take that option they should just be quite and agree?

Remember the dems did not adress immigration reform during the last 2 years for fear of lost votes…… so if the GOP regains power they should agree and Obama should sign whatever immigration reform the GOP brings up, as the time for them to present legislation is now?

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DT – 11:49 – boy. I can’t tell you how much that distresses me.

really, I can’t.

you asked, I answered.

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thomas – 11:48 – yes, they do. from both parties, not just the guy in on Penn Ave.

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Taking the Republicans at their word they were willing to work with Democrats on health care reform?

…and cap and trade. Remember when that was the market-based solution that sensible Republicans could get behind?

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“The other poster never gave the 2/3 as being for house or senate or both…..”

but it isn’t for both. The House has no such requirement, only the Senate. so any reference to a 60 vote margin MUST be about the Senate only. People educated in how our Congress works already know that.

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a blast … “(Kevin Hassett, director of economic-policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, is a Bloomberg News columnist. He was an adviser to Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona in the 2008 presidential election)

and he’s criticizing hte Dems???

color me shocked.

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Usik 11:40 I guess thats one of the people Oblunder has to work with.

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SS Piratization SQUIRREL.

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USinUK:

Did Durbin say: “If it’s passed with 63 votes or 73 votes, history won’t remember it,”

Did Pelosi say: “Yes, we wrote the bill. Yes, we won the election.”

Bi-partisan? Methinks not, but you go on believing your party is in favor of doing what is right for the country. Shape shifters.

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a blast – and you feel free to keep thinking that Hassett isn’t a partisan hack criticizing the Dems for doing exactly the same thing the GOP did.

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Good afternoon, Jay

Nice tie-in from the headline about grieving to the Kubler-Ross model of the stages of grieving. I’ll offer that many people are overlapping the stages – they’re still holding onto some denial, are experiencing pain but are now into anger and have moved into bargaining. Hence the poll swings: “you won’t give me what I want to feel better, I’ll find someone who’ll make the pain go away. I hope.”

Lots of people operate under the illusion of control and as you pointed out, don’t want to hear that part of this is out of the hands of some easy program fix. But what they can control, what they have focused on, is debt. As the article points out, they’ve restructured their lives to bring debt down, yet they see an entity they hold responsible – government – doing exactly the opposite, in fact, exploding debt. And that fuels the anger. They can take steps to get their own house in order, but the people they gave a job to can’t. And they see that can’t as having potentially serious repercussions.

I picked up an undercurrent in some posts that politicians know better but won’t speak truth because of personal risk. That may be true for some. But for others, it makes no difference. As the article pointed out, ideologues are on the far left and on the far right. And ideologues never, ever, let new information change their ideology.

Funny thing is, they have a lot of constituents who continue to believe them. Maybe it’s because those politicians speak authoritatively and maintain the illusion of control?

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Doggone/GA

September 8th, 2010
11:56 am

Agan at the time teh claim was made there was no clarification it was used as a blanket statement…..

I assumed that USinUK was incorrect (as if there are not many incorrect statements made everyday)

Once the clarification was made by USinUK, I have not argued the point to that degree.

Yet people like you still chim in with their 2 cents even if they didn’t take teh time to read the exchange in its entire form……

But hey if the leader of the free world is allowed to make rash judgements without all of teh facts why should you not do it too?

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Here’s something you won’t hear from a politician. “You can have whatever you want, but you are going to have to do what your grandparents and great-grandparents did and save up for it.”

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thomas
@12:40pm ..”using their no voteon HC reform” Do give us some names!

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