U.S. voters grieving for a world that won’t return
Stephen Pearlstein, business columnist for The Washington Post, makes an argument familiar to regular readers of this blog:
“Somewhere between the rantings of the Republican right, which is peddling the nonsense that excessive government spending is to blame for high unemployment, and the Democratic left, which clings to the false hope that another helping of fiscal stimulus is all that is needed to get millions of Americans permanently back to work, is this stubborn reality:
The loss of 8 million jobs reflects problems that are largely structural, not cyclical, which means they won’t be brought back by fiddling with a magic dial in Washington that controls how much the government spends.”
As Pearlstein notes, millions of construction and manufacturing jobs have disappeared and aren’t coming back soon. In addition, large numbers of displaced workers find themselves chained in place, unable to move to seek jobs because they are stuck with a mortgage for more than the house is worth.
And how did all this happen?
The structural problems, however, go well beyond these mismatches. The reason there were 8 million additional jobs back in 2007 is that demand for goods and services was artificially – and unsustainably – inflated by cheap, plentiful credit. Between 2002 and 2007, household debt was increasing at the torrid pace of more than 10 percent annually, while business debt and the debt of state and local governments was growing at an average of 9 percent. Much of that money was used to finance present consumption.
Now all that has reversed. Household debt is shrinking at a rate of 2.4 percent per year as the savings rate has risen from nearly zero to more than 5 percent. Meanwhile, business debt declined 2.5 percent last year and is now flat, as is the case for state and local governments.
All that deleveraging and living within our means is obviously a good thing in the long run. But what it means for the economy in the short run is that neither the excess consumption nor the jobs it supported are coming back.”
Our political leaders haven’t come to grips with that reality yet, and neither have the American people. What we’re seeing in the body politic right now is a primal scream of denial, an insistence that easy answers be found — right now! — so that we can all go back to those good ol’ days of not so long ago.
That’s why, less than two years after handing overwhelming victory to the Democrats, voters appear set to toss them aside and cast their lot with the Republicans next. Well, you can believe me now or you can believe me later, but John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Sarah Palin certainly don’t have the answers either.
Just ask them.
It may be that the American people just aren’t prepared yet to hear the truth. This is part of a process of denial, anger and bargaining, followed only later by acceptance, that we just have to work our way through to get to the other side. It isn’t pretty, but it’s probably necessary.
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347 comments Add your comment
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
10:28 am
Obama has broken it.
This is tragic news. Does the Addams Family have a replacement picked out yet.
Scout
September 8th, 2010
10:29 am
USinUK:
Isn’t it about your bedtime ?
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
10:29 am
Usik , because he has to work with people, are you giving him a scape goat. Do you truely believe a president is only as good as the people allow him to be ?
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:30 am
TaxPayer – 10:25 – I was thinking more like Mask of the Red Death
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:31 am
speaking of waste and the stimulus bill……..
Saw that some wanted the CBO to judge if the stimulus was wasteful or not………
They (cbo) has not done that study yet however it appears that they did conclude a study showing that Iraq war cost less than the stimulus.
I would be willing to make a wagwer that more people were employed or remained employed as a cause of the Iraq War than have been employed or remained employed as a result of the stimulus bill.
Not advocating war for Job creation but it seems to be doing better than a Bill that had a purpose of creating jobs….
Weird, huh!
Bosch
September 8th, 2010
10:31 am
Deep Throat,
He was not supposed to be like other politicians? And you believe that? Sounds like you were the one duped. Me? I think he’s doing a good job considering the circumstances — I knew he wasn’t going to have everything fixed in a jiffy — I for one, do not think that is the sole responsibility of the POTUS and hold him personally responsible for every little thing that doesn’t work. If you do, then more power to you.
The Thin Guy
September 8th, 2010
10:31 am
The economy isn’t going to rebound until manufacturing jobs come back. Where did they go? Into the air? No, they went to China and other countries where the labor cost is cheaper than the USA. 150 years ago the Northeast was filled with factories making products. Then they got labor unions and the labor cost became prohibitive. So they went South, to coin a phrase, and the Northeast was filled with closed factories. Then NAFTA passed and there were no tariffs on imported goods. If transportation costs are cheap and there are no tariffs on imported goods the manufacturing jobs will always go to the country with the lowest labor cost. So now 90% of the goods for sale in the USA are made in other countries and manufacturing plants all over the USA are vacant. The most communist (aka progressive) country on Earth, China, has the healthiest economy because they don’t have lawyers or labor unions and the labor costs are controlled by the government. Of course, JB never lists lawyers and labor unions as the core problem in our economy because he is only interested in causes than can be blamed exclusively on those Rascally Red-Necked Republicans. And those scumbag lawyers are one of the chief contributors to the demoncraps.
Mick
September 8th, 2010
10:33 am
scout
What brought us to the brink in sept 08? How come repubs refuse to take responsiblity for the state of the country? We did all the tax cutting, we kept the war off the books, we used our houses as atm’s, does anybody remember the ownership society? So, you’re not happy with obama, well millions are not happy about the course the previous administration charted, yet it all has to be fixed immediately?
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:33 am
Scout – 10:29 – no.
DT – “Do you truely believe a president is only as good as the people allow him to be ?”
yes.
Idiots
September 8th, 2010
10:33 am
Mike, I agree with you 100%. We build, we prosper. We service, we die. By the way, I love the phrase “Service Economy”. Here’s a good frame of reference. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs both created somthing and “built” somthing which continues to return profitability year afte year. John Doe works at McDonalds in the “Service” industry and barely makes minimum wage. Now, which side do you think the U.S. should be on?
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:35 am
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:23 am
“because I don’t agree – I think they may not have all the answers, but they have been stymied by the GOP who refuses to play nicely in the sandbox – they’d rather pee in it.”
Wasn’t the house and senate and teh executive office controlled by the Democrats?
They had an opportunity to do whatever they pleased they were either scared of voters or did not believe in the ideas presented……
The GOP copuld have peed all they wanted but they were in a different sandbox with no power and they were not needed to make any rules in the Dem sandbox…. so please do not blame a powerless group, if the dems truely believed in it they should have passed it….. apparently there were some dems who had their doubts as well.
I guess you made an honest mistake and forgot to mention the dems who MUST have peed in the sandbox too!
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
10:37 am
Borsch I was not duped, I did not vote for him, I do not believe him every time he blames the other party, I did not fall for that hopey changey thing, I do not think he is doing a good job. Ask the 10 persent of the people who are unemployed if hes doing a good job.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:39 am
Bosch
September 8th, 2010
10:31 am
Nice to see that you absolve President Bush for the Iraq war thing, since it takes congress and senate to go to war and all.
Unless now Bush is smarter than Obama and was able to trick everyone into doing what he wanted them to?
Oh yeah never mind it was Cheney, he is still evil right?
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
10:39 am
“I do not think he is doing a good job”
Ok, so if you could get his ear for just 10 minutes…what would you suggest he do differently?
Hayseed
September 8th, 2010
10:39 am
Jay: Someone recently told me that you’re stil around and sometimes blogging for the democrat party (I thought you beat a path out before the AJC disappeared down the drain). Cool. Glad you’re back. And glad you still willing to wear the blinders and drink the Kool-Aid.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:40 am
thomas – 10:35 – “Wasn’t the house and senate and teh executive office controlled by the Democrats?”
and it’s the GOP that’s requiring a >2/3 majority on EVERY piece of legislaiton, no matter how small. The Dems don’t vote in lock-step, they never have – but show me one piece of legislation where there hasn’t been a VAST majority (with only 1 or 2 exceptions) of the GOP voting as a block, in both senses of the word
DT – “I do not believe him every time he blames the other party”
of course you don’t
JohnnyReb
September 8th, 2010
10:40 am
Jay, you don’t give the voters enough credit. They know Repubs do not have all the answers. They know even better that what Obama has done does not work. The polls and forthcoming vote show a clear rejection of Obamanomics, Obamacare, especially the spending, and basically everything the man has done. His biggest achievement is likely to be accomplishing in two years what the Repbulicans have never been able to do – diminish the Democratic party to a level of ineffetiveness. The only supporters remaining are the hard left, the black community, and that 1 in 6 who depends on some type of government entitlement.
Idiots
September 8th, 2010
10:41 am
How come no one ever asks the 90% of us who are employed how we think the country is doing? Actually, I do have friends in the 10% that haven’t blamed Obama yet. They tend to blame the greedy owner of the company they used to work for becuase they no longer have a job so that he could continue to pay himself the same salary regardless of the economy. So much for sacrafice at the top.
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
10:42 am
Doggone I would tell him to quit demonizing business to start.
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
10:43 am
“Parties Tied at 46% in Generic Ballot for Congress”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142892/Parties-Tied-Generic-Ballot.aspx
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
10:43 am
“Doggone I would tell him to quit demonizing business to start”
Now THERE’S a practical answer. That all you got?
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:45 am
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:40 am
I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?
Blame the GOp all you want but all they could do was yell and scream if the dems had of wanted it passed then they should have passed it.
Either the democrats were worried about votes and not doing what they see as correct, or the democrats truely did not believe in the bills or ideas……
I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush but somehow everything done during that time frame is blamed at republicans feet, and the last few years the democrats controlled the house and senate.
Seems you may blame more or give more credit depending on which party it makes look better…..
Unless you are one of those who thinks GWB is waaaaay smarter and a much better negotiator than President Obama?
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
10:46 am
At least Obama has those bonehead Republicans pegged — if he says fish live in the water, they’ll say no… .
Been There Done That
September 8th, 2010
10:47 am
Idiots, LOL. I remember a couple years ago working for a company where the owners were paying themselves roughly $40,000 a month a piece, and when the revenue started to diminish, they would just throw another body on the fire. No change in their habits, just use the employees as kindling. Needless to say, that companay is no longer in exsitence.
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
10:47 am
Usik you give Oblunder a pass for doing poorly because he has to work with people.
Maybe I’m wrong but , I think, just think mind you, that every president has had to work with people.
So for all you blame Bush for , it was not his fault, it was the people.
Mick
September 8th, 2010
10:48 am
**I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush but somehow everything done during that time frame is blamed at republicans feet, **
That’s because they used reconciliation and the media never made it an issue. The democrats never had 60, lieberman doesn’t count.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:48 am
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
10:46 am
Has President Obama agreed with any of the proposals or ideas set forth by the GOP?
Or should the minority party simply answer yes to those in majority and keep their ideas to themselves?
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:49 am
thomas – “I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?”
you remember wrongly. there are 57 Dems, 41 GOP and 2 Independents.
“I don’t recall at any point in time the republicans having that kind of control in the house or senate during Bush ”
no, what you don’t recall is the Dems REQUIRING a 2/3 majority on every vote.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:49 am
thomas – or do you conveniently forget the “nuclear option”?
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
10:50 am
Doggone since you are still waiting on the hope and change what would you tell him to get on track.
middler and so tired of all the rhetoric :
September 8th, 2010
10:50 am
That’s right, no matter what it’s Obama’s fault. Not the Congress and Senate who refused to do any more now than they have done in the last 10 years. Just because Bush took on powers he was not granted by the Constitution and pretty much let his administration do whatever they wanted, got an inch…took a mile it was okay. It’s pretty disgusting that the majority of voters in this country are touted as going the “conservative” route and scampering back to the party who brought about this mess. No magic was done, especially over their screams, so a failure. It makes me sick to my stomach to see how we have moved so far away from the ideals we were founded on, which have been shaken up and re-imposed every so often, to where we are now. No one on this blog so full of hatred and disdain for Obama and/or the Democratic Party will admit it but deep down, in their soul of souls, what did Bush and the Republicans do for the vast majority of them? And when they take back everything what are they going to do for you then?
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:50 am
Mick
September 8th, 2010
10:48 am
Which major issues recently has he not sided with the dems?
he is more reliable than some of those actually identified as Democrats.
Bosch
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
thomas,
Nice try, really, but I meant the economy — yes, the Iraq war was all Bush’s fault.
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
“Doggone since you are still waiting on the hope and change what would you tell him to get on track”
I’m not waiting for anything. I supported Hillary Clinton. For me, the book is still open on Obama.
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
thomas,
“I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?”
I think that is proof that the entire agenda of the Republicans is not to help America but to get re-elected. The fact that Democrats were willing to work with Republicans on legislation and get things passed shows that they are willing to compromise for the greater good. The Republicans….not so much.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
DT – “Maybe I’m wrong but , I think, just think mind you, that every president has had to work with people”
oh, well done! so you’ve got half the equation … let’s look at the other half … are the people he has to work with willing to work with HIM?
where the GOP is concerned, to quote their 2010 platform in its entirety, “NO”
Been There Done That
September 8th, 2010
10:52 am
Thomas, the Healthcare Bill was crafted based heavily on a Republican template. Once it was embraced by the administration is when the Republicans decided it wasn’t good. Even today with Obama announcing that he is going to provide tax cuts for businesses, the Republicans are pissing and moaning about it costing too much. So…. Tax cuts for business = too expensive. tax cuts for rich = exactly what we need.
stands for decibels
September 8th, 2010
10:53 am
Dang, DGA @ 10.43, that gallup generic poll sho’ nuff is noisy!
Mudfoot
September 8th, 2010
10:56 am
Johnny 10:40
Not quite Johnny, there are still a few of us centrists left who remember the policies and practices of the last administration (and thereby have full knowledge of what the GOP plans to do if given the power again) and are aware of the fact that said practices significantly contributed to our present dismal economic state. We also see the fact that Republicans have nothing new or better to offer than they did in 2000 and 2004; only blind criticism, denial and diversion… business as usual. We are left to decide which, the left or the right, is the lesser of 2 evils… a difficult decision at best.
stands for decibels
September 8th, 2010
10:56 am
“I seem to remember the magic number being 60 votes, they had a filibuster proof majority no?”
For a few weeks, after Franken was seated, before Brown scored that open-net goal in MA. Of course it depended upon the tender mercies of Joe Lieberman, who’d previously been campaigning for John McCain…
Been There Done That
September 8th, 2010
10:57 am
Amen Mudfoot!
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:57 am
“So…. Tax cuts for business = too expensive. tax cuts for rich = exactly what we need”
of course, I thought it was BUSINESS that created jobs … now, we know, it’s the rich (I always liked “Upstairs, Downstairs”, now we ALL get to be the rich’s servants)
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
10:57 am
“Dang, DGA @ 10.43, that gallup generic poll sho’ nuff is noisy!”
Yep! and last week when that poll showed the GOP with a generic advantage of 10% over the Dems, it was touted all over the place. Now that the 10% lead has evaporated…crickets on the subject.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:57 am
dB – “the tender mercies of Joe Lieberman”
(shudder)
that’s a mental image I soooooooooo didn’t need this late in the afternoon
Mick
September 8th, 2010
10:58 am
thomas
During the healthcare debate, one of the compromises was to lower the medicare age to 55. Lieberman single handedly blew that up. Even though he does caucus with the dems, he likes to play the joker card when it suits his ego.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:58 am
“Now that the 10% lead has evaporated…crickets on the subject.”
damn that liberal media bias!!! (shaking fist at the screen)
thomas
September 8th, 2010
10:59 am
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
Which idea, program, or bill did the president take of the GOP?
What compromise has the Dems made and used one of the republican ideas?
Name the compromise?
Unless you consider a compromise to blame teh other party?
mm
September 8th, 2010
10:59 am
“Cutting taxes
-Faster rate of companies depreciation of assets
-Making Bush tax cuts perm”
Do you righties watch the news (note: Fox is not news)?
The Dems have passed all kinds of tax cuts in the bills they could actually get past the obstructionists. One third of the stimulus consisted of tax cuts.
Obama ofered a 100 percent exemption on depreciation of assets yesterday. Bonehead immediately said “NO”. This is an idea the republicans came up with.
These Bush tax cuts have existed for 10 years. We actually lost jobs during that time. The results speak for themselves.
The dems have tried to push through ideas the GOP endorsed 2 years ago. Now the GOP says “NO”. They blame the dems for the problems, and you believe them? Get serious.
Bruno
September 8th, 2010
10:59 am
Jay, you don’t give the voters enough credit. They know Repubs do not have all the answers. They know even better that what Obama has done does not work. The polls and forthcoming vote show a clear rejection of Obamanomics, Obamacare, especially the spending, and basically everything the man has done.
Hear, hear, JohnnyReb!!
Dusty
September 8th, 2010
10:59 am
Well….rah rah rah
I gave you world thinkers all weekend and Labor Day to fix this PROBLEM and it aint fixed. Whatsa matter?
Bookman is lower than a snake’s belly so ignore him. Too much failing liberalism hitting him in the face.
Everybody contradicting everybody except Obama won’t do it. So push your chair away and leave that computer. We’ve got enough “thinkers”. What we need is workers with a brain. Blogging all day brings mental decay! Haven’t you noticed?
Been There Done That
September 8th, 2010
10:59 am
LOL US! Thanks you for seeing the irony in my post. As one who falls into the tax increase bracket, I can honestly say that whether my taxes are raised or remain the same, I won’t be providing any jobs for anyone. heck, I still cut my own grass.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:00 am
“Even though he does caucus with the dems, he likes to play the joker card when it suits his ego.”
dammit, you just made me do a spittake … WHEN, since 2003, has Lieberman voted consistently with the Dems??? hell, he CAMPAIGNED for McCain!
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
11:01 am
Usik, so partisanship is a new thing, the dems voted for everything Bush proposed. Your arguement is so lame, you’re grasping for straws to make Obozo’s failures some one elses.
When has idiot Oblunder even seemed interesed in what the other side had to say or offer, he has only accused and blamed, when will the hope and change begin ?
barking frog
September 8th, 2010
11:01 am
the Bush tax cuts were designed to expire. Let them.
RW-(the original)
September 8th, 2010
11:01 am
and it’s the GOP that’s requiring a >2/3 majority on EVERY piece of legislaiton,
I sure wish somebody would make some corrections to that menu of talking points you libs use in place of thought.
60 is 3/5 not 2/3 and it isn’t even greater than 60 it is at least 60.
You’re welcome….and….
/drive by
mm
September 8th, 2010
11:01 am
Deficits didn’t matter under GOP control. Deficits are just a small percentage of GDP, they said. And I saw many of you righties on this blog make the same statement. Hypocrites? You betcha.
JohnnyReb
September 8th, 2010
11:02 am
All you folks that keep wanting to label Republicans the Party of No, understand the party is not going to throw their Ideology overboard just to please Democrats. When you have a POTUS whose every move is contrary to your Ideology, and you are a minority in Congress, all you have left is to say No. Plus, you should be greatful for all the No’s. Obama has wrecked havic enough without Repubs agreeing.
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
11:02 am
thomas,
does the GOP strategy for regaining power involve a “just say no” component?
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:02 am
thomas,
“What compromise has the Dems made and used one of the republican ideas?”
A health care reform bill that was based on the 1993 Republican alternative proposal to Clinton’s. That is a pretty big compromise….
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:03 am
Bosch
September 8th, 2010
10:51 am
So wars are the sole fault and responsibility of teh president.
Everything else he is only one man and can only get so much done?
That seems like a fair system!
How’s that Afgan war going? or does Bush still get blame for that too? What about increase in troops?
Are you also now saying that the economy WAS NOT Bush’s fault?
Or does he still get blamed for having an (R) after his name?
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
11:04 am
“So wars are the sole fault and responsibility of teh president.”
Nope, only the ones where Congress abdicates it’s responsibility to declare war and hands it on a platter to the President.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:04 am
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
11:02 am
Does the dems startegy for remaining in power rely on blaming the republicans eventhough dems had control of house and senate for last couple of elections?
Been There Done That
September 8th, 2010
11:05 am
I got it, it’s so simple. I finally understand the Republican parties strategy. In an attempt to illicit nostalgia, and return America back to the golden days of the Reagen Administration, they have embraced the tried and true method of “Just Say No”. After all, it worked so well on drugs, it Must be able to work when it comes to solving this countries problems. Genius!!
Bruno
September 8th, 2010
11:05 am
Nothing new today, so I’ll simply repeat my post from Monday:
“The challenge we’re facing right now is that the government has traditionally been able to manipulate the economy through raising or lowering the interest rate on loans via the buying and selling of US Treasury bills. However, interest rates have been nearly 0% for quite a while now, and it’s still hasn’t been enough to stimulate business growth. Feeling like they are out of options, the only “solution” that the Feds can come up with is to balloon the deficit even more through stimulus spending. While many like to believe the failure of the first round of stimulus spending was simply due to not spending enough money over a long enough period of time, others, like RW and myself, question the sanity of trying to spend your way out of a debt-fueled recession.
I don’t have any simple answers other than we’re going to have to find ways to survive until the housing market surplus corrects itself through natural market forces. In the meantime, the Dems would do well to stop passing additional burdensome legislation like the health care bill. The fact that so many large companies are sitting on their storehouses of cash isn’t really a mystery to me: Until these “activist” Democratic legislators are thrown out on their collective rears this November, they’re better off playing the waiting game rather than expanding in an unfriendly business environment.”
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:06 am
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
11:04 am
Its cause that Bush guy was such an eloquent speaker and was just sooo much smarter than this Obama fellow, he tricked em all into it.
Man who knew that GWB was such a smart and intellegent guy?
Scout
September 8th, 2010
11:07 am
USinUK:
……….. your eyes are getting very, very heavy. You are getting sleepy. Let them close gently …………. breathe slowly ………. let yourself go …………..
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
11:08 am
Usik, you blast the GOP for being the party of NO, you blast Joe Lieberman of voting yes and no, so what you and Oblamer want is for every one to vote yes with out question, you don’t want anyone to oppose the Liar in Chief.
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
11:08 am
thomas,
if the Republicans had wanted permanent tax cuts when they pased them in 2001 and 2003, why didn’t they make them permanent then instead of blaming the Democrats for not making them permanent now, even though they have not even expired yet?
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:08 am
Scout – dude. you may need to speak to your doctor about your meds. you’re babbling again.
stands for decibels
September 8th, 2010
11:09 am
a mental image I soooooooooo didn’t need
UnU, I figured if you could stomach Tbogg’s place this morning, you could stomach anything.
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:09 am
thomas,
“What compromise has the Dems made and used one of the republican ideas?”
You do realize the Republicans lost control of the House and Senate in 2008 don’t you? That means the Democrats control the agenda and compromise with the Republicans to get their legislation passed. And guess what? when Republicans control Congress, they do the same…that is what being the majority party is all about.
Republicans seem not to acknowledge they lost control.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:10 am
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:00 am
Helath Care reform—– 219 in favor—-212 oppossed
Which equates to 50.8%
Stmulus Package——–244 in favor—–188 oppose
Which equates to 56.4%
Now USinUK,
Either you are a liar in your claim earlier or you intentionally tried to misrepresent figures and assumed that none would check the validity, as you made the claime twice and both times were wrong.
Be honest in debates lying just makes you look like you are reaching
Doggone/GA
September 8th, 2010
11:12 am
“Man who knew that GWB was such a smart and intellegent guy?”
that’s not how I see it. I see it as “Who knew so many smart people in Congress could be so stupid?”
Bruno
September 8th, 2010
11:12 am
One more repeat from Monday, and I’ll leave you good folks to toss around your “Party of No” platitudes. To Jay:
“(1) Write an honest article assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Obama administration so far. Lately, your efforts have been primarily directed toward “explaining” how it really wouldn’t have mattered who was President. The mark of a true journalistic professional is objectivity. Prove to me and the gang that you are a professional.
(2) Tell me if you still believe what you wrote in your January 1, 2009 column entitled “G’bye, 2008; hello, something better?” Quoting from the article:
“So today is said to mark a new year, an artificial distinction that nonetheless wields a certain magic. The changing of the calendar has long been thought a time for renewal, for starting over, for improvement……..Now it’s almost time to put the plug back into the wall and go to work. Forget 2008 and look to the future, a message that is more compelling on this particular Jan. 1 than on most.”
Do you truly feel that Obama has lived up to the promise that you laid out in this article?? Seems like he’s just now giving lip service toward rolling up his sleeves and getting to work on what matters most to America: economic prosperity. From my perspective, it’s been a year and a half down the drain; a moving backward rather than a moving forward.”
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:13 am
DT – “Usik, you blast the GOP for being the party of NO, you blast Joe Lieberman of voting yes and no, so what you and Oblamer want is for every one to vote yes with out question”
mmmmmm. nope. not even close.
I blast Lieberman for not owning up to being the Republican he is. He’s about as “independent” as I am.
and, no, I don’t want everyone to blindly vote “yes” on everything that the WH says – what I EXPECT is for honest debate, honest compromise and then a vote. what we’ve gotten is dishonest debate (helloooooo Death Panels!), dishonest compromise (if you add XX provision, we’ll vote for it) followed by the GOP voting NO anyway and whining about how bad it is for the country.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:13 am
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:09 am
Actually it was 2007, but why worry about facts right?
So are you then saying that you advocate the party in power pushing through its agenda?
If so, what should the minority party do other than say no?
Should they just be good subjects and agree to everything?
Lets see if Democrats follow that idea of yours if they ever lose control of both houses.
TaxPayer
September 8th, 2010
11:13 am
thomas,
Since you seem to be on a “you lie” rant of your own now,
do you think Joe Wilson’s “you lie” statement was hypocritical?
barking frog
September 8th, 2010
11:14 am
Read my lips. No more tax credits.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:14 am
thomas – 11:10 – last time I checked, there were only 100 people in the Senate.
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:15 am
Doggone/GA,
“that’s not how I see it. I see it as “Who knew so many smart people in Congress could be so stupid?””
I have a saying pasted to my desk to remind me, “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
Scout
September 8th, 2010
11:15 am
USinUK:
Don’t fight it ……….. you are getting very, very sleepy …………….
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
11:15 am
mm , 11:01 you use you or your spouse use your credit cards, you try to pay them off monthly, you buy more and more before long you are just paying the minimum.
Do you keep buying and getting further behind or do you say enough ?
Seems simple to me but , oh I know, dang you work with people you have an excuse to keep spending.
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:16 am
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:13 am
Honest debate like claiming the Dems require a 2/3 majority, even in the face of only 51% of the vote for Health Care reform and only 56% for the stimulus plan.
Should I just agree and say yes that 2/3 is required and not 60 votes or a majority? I mean my opinions are in the minority on this blog so I guess i should just say yes?
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:18 am
dB – 11:09 – didn’t have the time this morning – last I saw was Wembly playing with his chew toy … (good way to start my day)
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:21 am
thomas – ohfercryingoutloud …
stimulus bill – senate vote – 61 yea
healthcare bill – senate vote 56 yea – with the GOP pledging to campaign for its repeal
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:22 am
evidently Scout’s not getting enough attention today … and we all know, he will not be ignooooooored …
thomas
September 8th, 2010
11:22 am
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
10:40 am
Did you quantify that in the post from….10:40?
Seems after Franken won there was talk of 60?
Currently no the dems do not have a majority but you as well as I know they did have them at one point, and did nothing but whine about republicans during that time.
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
11:23 am
Usik you proport everything that Obozo does is good , that the GOP only votes no, I do not want them to vote no , I want them to vote Hell no , no to socialism, no to Oblunder care, no to bailing out the Unions , no to more stimulus funds, no more misleading the country.
Vinny
September 8th, 2010
11:24 am
Jay, Jay, Jay,
Obama didn’t cut taxes on 98% – He redistributed income from the top 48% and gave it to the 50% that DON’T PAY TAXES. That does not constitute a tax cut – it was a redistribution of income.
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:26 am
DT – “Usik you proport everything that Obozo does is good”
oh, really? where did I say that?
Brett
September 8th, 2010
11:27 am
Well said, Jay. We are a simplistic, uneducated nation. Dumbed down to mere gadgetry. 20 years of RayGun & the 2 BushDrunks
, plus all the debris surrounding them, have added to the infantilization of the electorate. Unwashed masses of common hillbillies and know-nothings who will never be anything better than they are today. Filled with ignorance & dishonor. Look at them HERE.
As the rest of the civilized world spins away from them. Murcuh functions on yesterday’s reputation.
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:28 am
thomas,
“Actually it was 2007, but why worry about facts right?”
Actually if you are going to be snarky, get your facts right…it was 2006. Sorry for my mis-type earlier.
“So are you then saying that you advocate the party in power pushing through its agenda?”
Uh yeah…that is what being the controlling party is all about…
“If so, what should the minority party do other than say no?”
Wrangle concessions and work with the majority party to ensure the best legislative outcome.
“Should they just be good subjects and agree to everything?”
No..and neither should they uniformly oppose everything just for the sake of saying that they opposed it.
“Lets see if Democrats follow that idea of yours if they ever lose control of both houses.”
They have…can you point to any other time in history when almost every single piece of legislation required a 2/3 vote in the Senate to pass? I’m talking about some things like a budget here or there….but almost all legislation?
The Republicans plan to obfuscate their way to majority….meanwhile, seemingly, forgetting about their duty to work with he majority party to help solve the dire issues that confront the U.S. and the American people.
Democrats are by no means saints on this topic, but I’ll stake their record of working with the majority party from 2000-2006 against the Republicans from 2006 – present any day.
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:30 am
Vinny,
“50% that DON’T PAY TAXES”
Everyone pays taxes….
A blast from the past
September 8th, 2010
11:30 am
In an hour-long private meeting with Republican and Democratic Congressional leaders this morning on the economic stimulus package, President Barack Obama stressed the urgency of getting the $825 billion stimulus plan passed quickly for the good of the country, and mentioned the political stakes for both parties.
According to a source present at the meeting, President Obama said, “Look, we are all political animals here, If we don’t do this, we may lose seats. I may not be re-elected. But none of that’s going to matter if we don’t pass this because the economy will be in a crisis and the American people will be hurting.”
As the president, he had told Kyl after the Arizonan raised objections to the notion of a tax credit for people who don’t pay income taxes, Obama told Cantor this morning that “on some of these issues we’re just going to have ideological differences.”
The president added, “I won. So I think on that one, I trump you.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/i-won-president.html
USinUK
September 8th, 2010
11:31 am
thomas – 11:22 – you do realize that Franken was only able to take his seat IN JULY – nearly a full 7 months after the term started … then Byrd died this last June (after missing much of the year due to illness)
Scout
September 8th, 2010
11:32 am
USinUK:
Maybe this will help ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXkDlVqnzHQ
jewcowboy
September 8th, 2010
11:32 am
Vinny,
“That does not constitute a tax cut – it was a redistribution of income.”
And what was the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 but a redistribution of income from the bottom to the top?
Deep throat
September 8th, 2010
11:33 am
Usik 11:26
Lets see if you can do, admit one of Oblamers blunders, come you can do it , prove me wrong, I dare you, I double dog dare you.
barking frog
September 8th, 2010
11:34 am
Bull! Corporations are sitting on billions waiting for DEMAND to pick up.
————————————————————————-
where are they keeping this money? could it be in the
same place the banks are keeping the 0% interest money
they are borrowing from the Fed? 7 year treasuries that
pay 3.25%. smoke and mirrors from the government.
the rich get richer….
kayaker 71
September 8th, 2010
11:35 am
Longing for an America that is lost and will not return as we know it. Probably true. Breaks your heart. As the Bozo ship is sinking, the first high profile WH big wheel is leaving. Looks like Emmanuel is going to perpetuate the Democratic disaster that is Chicago by running for Mayor of that fair city on the lake. Who’s next?