Watching Iraq from our rear-view mirror

In the main, I agree with what you wrote…except I have very little sympathy for their “no government” problem. If they wanted a functioning government, they should not have opted for a parliamentary system. They sowed it, now they have to reap the consequences.

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Man, the last nine years have been grueling with these endless wars. Will obama have the guts to get out of afghanistan and cut our losses? I, like millions of others are tired of war and its collateral damage to the men, families, and our country. We had saddam boxed in, war was so unnecessary but here we are dazed and confused almost a decade later.

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“Glenn Beck crowd: Not so white as advertised
Many creeds, colors in attendance refute charges of racism against rally”

This will make many a libs head explode.

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“Many creeds”

Since when can you identify someone’s creed from the color of their skin?

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“He is also certain to note that the drawdown honors his 2008 campaign pledge.”

He can say it all he wants but it still doesn’t make it true. Not until ALL troops are gone from Iraq.

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November is right around the corner.

“In June 2010, 42 percent of respondents told Gallup that they were conservatives, while 20 percent claimed to be liberals, and 35 percent said they were moderates,” he said. “The nearly even division in partisanship and the conservative tilt in ideology suggest that the current equilibrium in the electorate is far more Republican than the status quo in the House.”

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“They didn’t say it. Of course, that has never stopped a lib from stretching the truth in the past”

If that was supposed to make sense…it missed it’s mark.

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543 troops died in Iraq since Obama has taken office and counting. Time to fulfill your campaign promise and get them out.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/dates/2009/

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g’morning Mick – as far as I can tell, they still like him here (he still has the benefit of 1) being a helluva lot more respected than his predecessor and 2) Sarah Palin being a laughingstock here, too)

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“Time to fulfill your campaign promise and get them out.”

p-diddy – he’s doing just that.

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Speaking of Brits and totally on topic…Princess Di dies 13 years ago today….and Elton John got to replay that sappy song again. As to “on topic”, I heard Dick Cheney accuse Di of smuggling yellow cake into Iraq as an effort to get the Queen on their side for the invasion…

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Leg: Many creeds, colors in attendance refute charges of racism against rally

Dogg: Since when can you identify someone’s creed from the color of their skin?

Leg: They didn’t say it. Of course, that has never stopped a lib from stretching the truth in the past.

… nope. still doesn’t make any sense.

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“He hasn’t fulfilled anything yet.”

he’s pulled out combat troops and is continuing to draw down the rest. I’d say he’s making excellent headway.

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USinUK
August 31st, 2010
8:29 am

Oh, you’re playing referee. Okay. Dogg said “Since when can you identify someone’s creed from the color of their skin?” The headline, nor the article, made such a claim. Again, it’s a common theme of the left to make an issue out of something that didn’t happen. Just sayin….

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“I’d say he’s making excellent headway.

Sure he’s making “headway.” But 50,000 still remain. “All or nothing, let’s go give it a try”

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“The headline, nor the article, made such a claim.”

um. yeah. if the headline is saying “Many creeds, colors in attendance”, then they seem to be making exactly the claim that you can tell someone’s creed by what they look like …

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If only there were some cons that had their honor restored by Beck. Give us a sign. Wear your “Beck Restored my Honor” T-Shirt out today. Wear it with more than just honor. Wear it with pride.

King’s “I Have a Dream” vs. Beck’s “I Have a Scheme”

MLK : Age 15, enters Morehouse College after skipping 9th and 12th grades
Beck: Age 19, skips college to host radio show “Morning Zoo” as character Clydie Clyde

MLK : 25, becomes pastor of Baptist Church, Montgomery, Ala.
Beck: 23,Takes over Phoenix’s Morning Zoo show with Zippy the Chimp

MLK : 27, leads Read More… Montgomery Bus Boycott
Beck: 23 is arrested for stealing Christmas decorations in Scottsdale as radio prank

MLK : 28, helps found the Southern Christain Leadership Conference
Beck: 24, hires Jessica Hahn, former mistress of televangelist Jim Bakker, as his show’s “prize and weather bunny.”

MLK : 29, assaulted at a book signing
Beck: 26 terrifies a bank teller by putting a gerbil down deposit tube as an on-air prank

MLK : 34, writes “Letter From a Birmingham Jail” while incarcerated
Beck: 29, is arrested for speeding in his deLorean with one of the doors open

MLK: 34, “I Have a Dream” speech from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial
Beck: 30, cuts off his ponytail

MLK: 28-38, receives 20 honorary doctorates from universities around the world
Beck: 32, enrolls part-time at Yale, takes one class, drops out

MLK: 35, becomes youngest recipient of Nobel Peace prize
Beck: 34, first foray into talk radio; mispronounces “Osama bin Laden”

MLK: 39, assassinated April 4, 1968 in Memphis
Beck: 41, ponders personally killing Michael Moore on air

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obama did something the right way? it looks more like he sends biden out to do his lying for him.. least bush did his own.. lol

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There’s another good Luckovich cartoon to check out and on topic too…

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Mick – yep. I kinda like the Brits – the only thing that drives me batty is that, if complaining was an Olympic sport, MAN would they get the gold. there’s nothing they like more than a good whine (trains, gummint, weather, you name it). that’s the biggest difference between Americans and Brits – we really are a lot more optimistic.

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TaxPayer
August 31st, 2010
8:34 am

By the way, I wasn’t the one comparing MLK and Beck. You did. Two different men, two different generations, two different agendas.

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Leg Lamp Humper at 8:37,

Feel free to add on to that list if you wish. As for what Beck did in comparison, he probably just cried about it as he declared MLK to be a racist too.

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TaxPayer
August 31st, 2010
8:34 am

I have an idea. Why not replace beck in your comparison with, say, Barry Bonds. Or maybe O.J. Simpson. Or Kobe Bryant. Or Mr. Wrestling #2. Or Eminem. I’ll be eagerly waiting your post.

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Since Jay was either too busy or too lazy to write an original article this AM about the situation in Iraq, here’s a link to a Yahoo.com story entitled “Fearing the future, few Iraqis cheer US departure” :

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iraq

From the article:

“Of course we were against the occupation, but in 2007 the Americans came up with a good plan for fighting al-Qaida, not Iraq,” said Col. Abdelsaad Abbas Mohammed, a Fallujah commander in the government-supported Sunni militia, known as the Awakening Councils. “Americans have committed many mistakes, but they did not go into houses and chop people’s heads off.”

In the three provinces that make up the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq, the American military departure is also cause for concern. The Americans have often been perceived as the protectors of the minority Kurdish population, which was repressed under Saddam, but later carved out a relative oasis of stability in northern Iraq.

Othman Ahmed, 38, and a lawyer from the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah, said Iraqi politicians would like to return Iraq to the strong centralized government of the former regime — meaning the Kurds’ hard-won autonomy could be at jeopardy. The friction between the Kurds and the central government is considered a potential flashpoint. Both claim a wide swath of territory stretching from the Syrian to the Iranian border, which includes the oil-rich city of Kirkuk.”

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I have an idea. Why not replace beck in your comparison with, say, Barry Bonds. Or maybe O.J. Simpson. Or Kobe Bryant. Or Mr. Wrestling #2. Or Eminem. I’ll be eagerly waiting your post

I have an idea too. Do your own leg work. But I’m not eagerly awaiting to see the outcome.

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“The headline, nor the article, made such a claim. ”

“Many creeds, colors in attendance refute charges of racism against rally”

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USinUk

Best thing I ever did was take the QM2 across the pond. Most relaxing journey of all time.

When we finish out what’s left of our wars, I hope we retreat from the role of the world’s policeman. It’s probably not plausible in this day and age, but it would be sensible.

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Mick – 8:47 – QM2??? oooooo … ENVY!!!

retreat from being the world’s policeman? and who will step in to fill the void? China?

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USinUK

August 31st, 2010
8:48 am

Good point. And therein lies the problem.

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Seven Signs You Are Being Lied To:

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/life/how-to-catch-a-liar-2300810/#poll-C926B9A6965B11DF88C4EE5DB10B4572

This will help you when El Jefe makes his speech tonight.

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“If the headline read “Many creeds and colors….”. But it didn’t.”

I quoted it EXACTLY from YOUR post. Since you didn’t bother to actually post a link to the article, I can’t attest to what the article actually said…but I have only to look up thread to see what YOU quoted from it.

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leg – 8:49 – s’what I’m sayin.

right now, the entire world (with the exception of China and, to a lesser extent, India) are going through the same economic crisis the US is … if no us, then who?

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Just as the War First, War Last, War Always neo-cons learned zero about Viet Nam, (How the hell could they? Almost to a man, they “had priorities other than military service”.) so will they learn nothing at all from the deadly debacles that they speciously foisted and fear-mongered on the nation and world.

6,787 GIs KIA’d needlessly. And counting. Tens of thousands more maimed and ruined. Countless families broken just to satisfy the vicarious bloodlust of gutless little men in Washington and elsewhere. Ungodly amounts of Uncle Sam’s money spent, wasted, “lost” and given away to the corporate paymasters who now run the country.

And one has to wonder if it is not at all out of the realm of possibility that a bunch of thick headed, small-balled chickenhawks, with DickHead Cheney in the lead role, are trying to find some clandestine, back room, closed door gathering place to plan the next invasion. Welcome to Tehran!

And many of the rubes who voted for them believed the obvious nonsense about it being in the interests of national security…

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Faux TaxPayer
August 31st, 2010
8:49 am

Nah, that’s not the best I got. But if the shoe fits….. Maybe you’re the one who should be watching something. Try watching replays of the speeches in DC at the Beck rally. Then watch the mindless drivel coming from your guy, Big Al, and let me know how it works out for ya.

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USinUK

August 31st, 2010
8:51 am

If I had that answer then I might consider running for office. Since I don’t, I’ll just continue to posting to educate the blogosphere.

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leg – 8:56 – I hear ya. and agree.

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“retreat from being the world’s policeman? and who will step in to fill the void? China?”

You beat me to it, USinUK, but I’m glad you finally came to your senses. Anyone here who wants to pin their hopes on the UN might want to take a gander at this article entitled “The Corruption of the UN”:

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=1853.782.0.0

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the un.. what a waste of a perfectly good concept.. sigh

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“It will require 50,000 troops at 500.00 per day per man as compensation.”

Yeah we need a new business card: Have troops will travel

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Normal

August 31st, 2010
9:05 am

Which is why we should have taken oil from Iraq. Pay for our expenses.

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Does every instance of our interjecting ourselves as “World Policeman” deal with a situation vital no America’s national security?

If we assume the role of world policeman, what’s the best that could happen?

If we didn’t regularly assume the role of ‘orld policeman’what’s the worse that could happen?

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Union – 9:04 – agreed. I’d say they should just stick with humanitarian aid, but they seem to eff that one all to hell when they’re in charge of that, as well.

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if we could privatize what the un tried to do.. maybe we could do something with that?

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Dire warnings of mushroom clouds rising over American cities and of Iraqi unmanned aerial vehicles launching WMD attacks against us may seem implausible in hindsight, but coming from top U.S. officials, they seemed all too real.

You know, jay, I don’t remember experiencing this fear of which you, so often, speak.

The little drone, Ahmadinejad has his own drone in the works.

Ahmadinejad said Sunday that if Israel ever attacked Iran, “the span of our reaction would be the entire planet Earth.”

The drone has been in the works for seven or eight years, Alizadeh said, and won’t “disturb the regional balance” until mass production is carried out successfully. At one point about three years ago, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei visited the plant where it was being built, he said.

“I asked the leader to do a favor and pray for the drone,” Alizadeh said. “He stroked the head of the drone and said a prayer. Believe me, after that prayer, we all got a special energy.”–LATimes

We definitely missed the target. Two bullets…two crack shots. One for Karzai and one for Khameini. Warfare on the cheap.

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72 HOURS: 19 American soldiers killed in Afghanistan…

Yeah, the Obama plan is really working.

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Kerry tops wealthiest lawmakers at $188.6 million…

So the dems have some of the “evil rich” in their midst?

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Jay,
The Bush/Cheney ill-conceived, unecessary fiasco that is the Iraq war, “is” because the nightmare continues. First, is was never worth the lives of our military or the lives of innocent civilians, especially children. If we haven’t learned anything else about this tragedy, and we probably haven’t, then it should be to think for ourselves and question the motives and the rhetoric of “leaders”, especially when that rhetoric is a call for the use of force. Second, when so-called leaders, especially those who have never served in the military or in combat, call those of us who question their call for the use of force “unpatriotic or “traitor”, we should be especially supicious.

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“A Military Times poll this year found that a majority disapproved of his leadership as their commander.”

You reckon these soldiers are racist?

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Mick – 9:14 – that’s only the tip of the iceburg why they (still) hate Thatcher.

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Scout–If you poke your head in, I’m hoping you can clear up a point of confusion for me. In a few of your posts yesterday, you stated that only God/Jesus can decide who is “saved” and can therefore enter the Kingdom upon death. Then, in other posts, you express great certainty that your own place has already been reserved. Do you have a special line of communication with the Creator that none of the rest of us has??

Just curious.

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oooo … 1th on the 2th …

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“Do you have a special line of communication with the Creator that none of the rest of us has?? ”

Didn’t you know? Scout IS God. In a past blog we were having some fun at his expense and his response was “God will not be mocked”

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It is OK for the USA to spend 4,421 American lives and 33,000 American wounded & $709 billion American taxpayer dollars to build a nation for Muslims, but it is not OK to let Muslims build a community center in NYC with their own money.

Have I got this right?

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spread the money around.. lol

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amvet.. stop cussing at me

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Mike Luckovich! Wow. If he still had his blog going, the wingnuts would be a howling this AM.

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jconservative,

AND, the kicker is that we pay for all their healthcare too. Or at least we did.

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““God will not be mocked””

which is kinda ironic, considering that particular brand of Christian seems to have no problems with cartoons mocking Mohommad …

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nimby

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“Obama reiterated his pledge that “by the end of next year, all of our troops will be home.”

What an idiotic policy. We invest all those sacred lives and billions of dollars and it’s more important to safisfy the Left political base than to protect the investment.

Iraqi’s should determine their destiny, but the USA should guide their choices by keeping a formidable military presence.

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jconservative
“It is OK for the USA to spend…$709 billion American taxpayer dollars to build a nation for Muslims”

That was done in another country with foreign (American) dollars..

Are you saying the community center is the same – done in another country (America) with (foreign) Muslim money?

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Publicity stunt? Ill conceived invasion? Exactly who was that White House spokesman, Jay? I see that you are still carrying on those moronic Democrat talking points. I do believe that we did something over there that the world was too damn timid to do as a collective effort. And that was to liberate those wretched people from a psychopathic dictator who also fooled the entire world that he had the WMD. Unfortunately, Muslims being Muslims, involved us in defending the good ones against the bad ones. In hindsight, had we known that any difficulties ensued in the courageous effort would trigger the unpatriotic rejections of the Democrat Party, we would have turned a blind eye to the perpetual slaughter of the Iraqi people. Now that we are leaving those people with some form of democratic government, you Democrats can struggle with the same problems of Islamic chaos in Afghanistan. Enjoy!

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“which is kinda ironic, considering that particular brand of Christian seems to have no problems with cartoons mocking Mohommad”

and if you’re critical of them, they generally come back with something like “how would you feel if it was Jesus?” – but they aren’t so happy with MY response that Jesus is a big boy, if he’s annoyed he’ll deal with it.

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I think Donovan needs a martini too. I’ll give him an extra olive.

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Bosch – 9:35 – it’s 5:00 somewhere …

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Bosch … and if you’re mixing … make mine Grey Goose … dry … no ice … 3 olives … (a c o c k tail AND a snack!)

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I’m still bummed about that snake.

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jconservative, ah yes! The poor, long-suffering people of Iraq. I lost count, after all the previous ones were shown to be bs, was that the fifth or sixth “reason” we invaded their country?

Union, perhaps, remedial sixth grade English?

Your canard about Carter is always laughable though.

This ranking in particular shows the margin by which George of the Bungle leads the pack in the loser column:

“Which of these eleven presidents we have had since World War II would you consider the worst president

1. George W. Bush (34%)
2. Richard Nixon (17%)
3. Bill Clinton (16%)
4. Jimmy Carter (13%)
5. Don’t Know/No Answer (5%)
6. Lyndon Johnson (4%)
7. George H. W. Bush (3%)
8. Ronald Reagan (3%)
9. Gerald Ford (2%)
10. Harry Truman (1%)
11. John Kennedy (1%)
12. Dwight Eisenhower (<1%)

And that was done in 2006! W probably garners 50% or more of that vote when he left office…

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After reading this morning’s earliest contributions, it’s obvious where jay’s left-wingers choose to wage their war, now that Obama has “ended” conflict.

boyhowdy, the pasty elasticated waistband population was well-represented.

Long piece, but it says so much about why America’s Elder-hostiles are such a pain in the ass.

On the generation that came before them.

Niiiiice

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… if it weren’t for selective poutrage, @@ would have no personality at all …

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During the run-up to the Iraqi war, the Bush Administration hired “perception management” expert John Rendon to sell the public ­ and journalists ­ on the merits of the war. For $16 million, Rendon fed journalists,­ including Judith Miller of The New York Times, ­ bogus intelligence about Iraq’s WMD program.

All of you who were gung ho about going in……………….feel kind of stupid now?

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Bosch

Maybe this’ll make you feel better.

Or not….

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=10WFobBSd0s&feature=related

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“Now that we are leaving those people with some form of democratic government”

Jesus H. Christ. We have left them with nothing! Do you really think that once we leave, that “Democracy” will last? They will revert back to kind and start getting revenge and counter-revenge on each other until they are bled dry and Iran steps in. Iraq never should have happened and I hope there is a Hades so Bush and his gang can burn. He has singlehandedly shifted the balance of power in that region and forever shifted the flow of oil to an Anti-American Regime.
Saddem may have been a butt, but he was containable and no real threat.

If Bush had stayed the course in Afghanistan and left Iraq alone, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now and nearly 5000 families would be a lot happier…not to mention the families of the wounded and crippled.
I fear for a country who’s people can’t see facts for what they are, but I do know one thing, no matter who is in charge of our country in 2012, the price of oil has just gone up on our butts. Get ready GOP,
you are about to reap what you have sown…

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File this one away for the next time you see one of those endless stories about how some Republican can’t figure out technology

/drive by

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Normal,

This is one of my favorite Luckovich cartoons — very telling:

http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20080403_silver_platter/

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“And that was to liberate those wretched people from a psychopathic dictator who also fooled the entire world that he had the WMD.”

Differently from most of the Libs here, I believed in the “righteousness” of the mission in Iraq. Unfortunately, one critical element of the helping process was missing: the willingness of those folks to help themselves. I’m not really sure what is wrong with people from that part of the world, but evidently life is cheap to them.

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Bosch 9:53

What’s kinda sad is that same ‘toon could run today with Pres Obama in place of Pres Bush. Same with N. Korea.

Just goes to show – many foreign leaders don’t care a whit who’s occupying the White House. It’s all just ‘America’ to them.

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Paul @ 9:49–I guess we could have a Friday Night Music based on an animal theme. Jim Stafford’s “Spiders and Snakes” would fit well.

A few years ago, I attended a hippie gathering in which everyone was supposed to come dressed as their “Power Animal”. An interesting evening, as you might guess. Something about girls with tails really turned me on.

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Bruno – that was Jim Stafford? I thought that was Mac Davis …

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Bosch,
My favorite is of Luckovich on 26 October, 2005, where he took the names of the Dead soldiers in Iraq and spelled “WHY” with them. That too was very telling. I still have it in my man cave…

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You know, sorry, Jay, some of this original commentary (whether yours or someone else’s) is ridiculous.

Somehow people confuse nation building with war. On a straightforward basis, we won the war as GW Bush stated years ago.

We have not completed nation building, or, said another way, we have not won the peace yet. However, we have won the war and this stupid mindset that we somehow lost or are ending this in a Vietnam style military stalemate is a ridiculous proposition.

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Bruno – “(Sorry for the reason though!)”

wait … did things not work out with the new gig???

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Bruno

Please tell me, no matter how much you had to drink, you didn’t walk up to them and say “wow that’s a mighty nice piece of tail.”

Is it Friday already?

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Finn McCool

August 31st, 2010
10:05 am

Nice lift of Cynthia’s article from yesterday.

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Finn McCool

“Glenn Beck’s rally was large, vague, moist, and undirected—the Waterworld of white self-pity.”

Someone needs to let her know….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPoP5l9FqSQ

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Leg lamp, i don’t even know that Christopher Hitchens has ever even heard of Cynthia Tucker.

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Finn McCool

August 31st, 2010
10:12 am

No big deal. Tucker pretty much cuts and pastes most of her articles.

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Finn McCool

August 31st, 2010
10:12 am

You want to hear something hilarous. Tucker said he’s a Conservative. muuuwwwaaaaAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

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@@ – “There is nothing that could provoke me to show disrespect for those that went before me”

those that went before you??? criminey, genuflect when you say that.

good grief – they’re people, @@. people at a protest. they’re not demi-gods.

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AmVet, I beg to differ. the neo-cons learned much from Vietnam. have you ever heard the old marketing mantra; “give them a razor, then sell them the blades.”? the Cold War in general, and Vietnam (actually, SE Asia, we/CIA were waging war in Laos before the Gulf of Tonkin) in particular followed this business plan. the “razor” is the threat of worldwide Communism and dominoes falling, the blades are provided by the military-industrial complex (weapons). of course, you can’t “sell” weapons without a war…, well you can, but you sell a whole lot more when you’re at war. so, Ike was right. the M-I complext “partners” with neo-cons (especially chickenhawks like Cheney). since Communism self-destructed, there had to be a new “razor” for America; enter “global war on terrorism”. it will be interesting to see how much Obama speaks to Afghanistan. I think there are subtle, tactical differences in fighting a Cold War and a War on Terrorism, and I think the M-I complex knows this. the cynic in me thinks (knows) they “own” Obama, just as Wall Street and the insurance companies do. Anyone remember Country Joe and the Fish?

Come on Wall Street, don’t move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There’s plenty good money to be made
Supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

It’s “what we’ve been fighting for”.

[Chorus]

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“where would you go in VA? more expensive than GA, but also more recession-proof.”

To the Land of Falwell. I’m sure I’ll fit right in, having been working on my Bible quotes here on the JB blog.

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Bruno – meh – go to Alexandria … Del Ray is a fantastic neighborhood …

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“Leg lamp, i don’t even know that Christopher Hitchens has ever even heard of Cynthia Tucker.”

Oh I’m quite sure he’s familiar with her considering her regular stints on the This Week Sunday morning program.

USinUK: what’s a lib exactly? Shouldn’t you be using the term in it’s proper international usage to mean a free-market trumpeter?

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USinUK–I offer to you the JQOTD (The Jerry Quote of the Day):

“You’ll be riding along in an automobile. You’ll be the driver perhaps. You’re a Christian. There’ll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away — you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes…. Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on … every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel.”

BTW, that’s Jerry Falwell, the Other Jerry.

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Bruno
August 31st, 2010
10:29 am

The “pre trib rapture” is a hotly debated topic nowadays, but if you believe in it, then Jerry’s right.

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And without progress, there will be regression. Although it remains below peak levels, violence has begun to increase again, and the Iraqi people appear increasingly discouraged about the prospects of democracy actually functioning. Each week without an elected government moves them closer to reverting to cruder, more familiar forms of authority.

A few corrections:
A without competent adults in charge, there will be recession. Although it remains below peak levels, unemployment has begun to increase up again, and the American people appear increasingly discouraged about their prospects for a job in Obama’s “transformed America”. Each week without competent leadership moves America closer to bankruptcy.

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http://biblestudies.suite101.com/article.cfm/is_the_rapture_biblical

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Bad Karma Indeed!

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“for many good things were done”

You betcha. We destroyed them so we could feel good about rebuilding them.

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USinUK,

EXACTLY like that — I even ran into the camera at the end….

Wait, why is there a cameraman here? I’ll be right back……

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Bosch
August 31st, 2010
10:38 am

Hmm, let me see if it fits.

Kiss my lib.

Stop acting like a lib.

Don’t be such a lib.

This stupid lib pulled right out in front of me.

I don’t know Bosch. It just doesn’t seem to have the necessary flair of the original.

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sfd 10:19

The theme of the post was how the Beck/King example illustrate the tactics of those who disagree with them. With Beck, it’s the familiar playbook of personal attacks, demonizing, searching for character flaws to weaken credibility and support.

My experience on this blog is that flaws in Dr. King’s past are raised in response to this tactic by the Left on one of their heroes. The Left, perceiving it an effective tactic, minimizes or downplays its importance relative to their icons.

It has nothing to do with length of service. There was, what, 11 years from Dr. King assuming leadership of the SCLC to his assassination, while Beck’s been on Fox how long? If anything, that illustrates how rapidly the Left moves against those whom they want to neutralize.

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“The “pre trib rapture” is a hotly debated topic nowadays, but if you believe in it, then Jerry’s right.”

Leg Lamp–If I’ve learned one thing on this earth, it’s that reality and our THOUGHTS about reality are two distinct entities. All the debates/hopes/wishes in the world don’t change Physics.

As I stated to Mike last night, if you want to get your Bible out, we can together discuss the beautiful concepts of Grace and Salvation. But, the moment you start claiming that mythological stories are factual in a Scientific fashion, then you open yourself up to ridicule.

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Where are the racist allegations from the media about the government supported Sharpton rally? His crowd sure looked a lot less diverse than the Beck rally.

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Bruno
August 31st, 2010
10:42 am

I wasn’t trying to drag you into a debate. As I said, the pre-trib and post-trib camps debate this issue regularly. I know of a preacher who does NOT believe in pre-trib rapture but won’t preach his stance because the majority of his church members subscribe to the pre-trib school of thought.

My thoughts? I believe God can do anything. I just don’t waste a lot of time trying to figure out just what He can do, why He would do it, and how would He do it.

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What is it with conservatives claiming some conservatives aren’t “real” conservatives just because they might disagree on some points?

This is eerily close to the christian mantra that unless you believe exactly what I believe then you aren’t a real christian and you can’t get into heaven. Where does this arrogance come from?

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Off to probate — later folks!

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The theme of the post was how the Beck/King example illustrate the tactics of those who disagree with them.

Paul, I’m well aware of what you were trying to do. It’s little posts like that, that remind me that as reasonable as you can sound most of the time and as swell a guy as I’m sure you are, that you continue to get a decent share of talking points from the likes of BOR, and that for all the efforts you make to be reasonable there are some things you and I simply aren’t going to be in synch with, perhaps ever.

Put another way—if you really want to do a like:like comparison of Beck’s peeps:MLK’s peeps, here’s a shovel. Feel free to keep digging.

anyway, other stuff awaits. Back later…

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“My thoughts? I believe God can do anything. I just don’t waste a lot of time trying to figure out just what He can do, why He would do it, and how would He do it.”

No problem, LL. You’re certainly entitled to your beliefs. I guess what puzzles me is the intense desire on the part of Christians and other religious groups to believe in supernatural phenomena, despite all evidence to the contrary. To me, Nature is more than phenomenal in Her own right.

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one other thing:

the pre-trib and post-trib camps

I doubt I will see anything funnier than that all this week.

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Bruno
August 31st, 2010
10:53 am

I won’t speak for other Christians, but mine is not based on a belief “in supernatural phenomena”. Instead, mine is based on faith. Faith in a higher power. Faith in a sovereign God. Pretty simple actually.

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“Why it was just the other day when you committed yourself to letting the topic of religion go…”

I never made such a commitment. My commitment was to stop judging whether bloggers/people lived up to the high standards they set for themselves by claiming that they are great Christians.

“O.K. with you????”

Why are you asking my permission? That seems to be at odds with your oft’ repeated statements that anything I say is irrelevant to you.

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“the pre-trib and post-trib camps

I doubt I will see anything funnier than that all this week.”

I just don’t understand what the Chicago Tribune has to do with it.

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Here’s an interesting read for your lunchtime about my buddy, Paul Broun Jr. and why i want him out of Congress. Its a little long but it is a good read.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/08/31/will_bunch_the_backlash

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Tear it down, blow it up, build it part way back, abandon it,
another failed government program…

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USinUK
August 31st, 2010
10:59 am

Ha! Good one. It truly IS interesting to listen to members of the same church debate the pre-trib versus post-trib philosophies. Both come well prepared for the debate, but I find it amazing that they will sometimes use the same verse to support their position. I don’t believe a pre-trib OR post-trib will happen in my lifetime so I just try to move forward in my faith.

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Iraq in a rear view mirror should hold the warning of “Objects in mirror appear stupider than you Think” After reading David Brook’s take on this subject I can only shake my head in consternation. I wonder if we would ask American’s before we invaded if it would be worth the price in lives and treasure, would they would have been behind it? And not just American lives, our casualties have been miniscule in comparison to Iraqi deaths. Sadam was definitely a very bad guy but in my opinion the entire war was not worth the price of deposing him. Not to mention the black hole it left in the Middle East which Mahmoud Ahma-crazy-jad was more than happy to fill.

I would venture that everyday Iraqis would agree. Brooks mentions they have more cell phones now. Now there’s a trade off, personal communications are up but life expectancy is considerably down. Oh, and oil production is nearly to pre-Sadam levels, and wasn’t that the whole point friends and neighbors? That is a hard choice to make, an I-phone or your kid blown up? I dare say that they might just choose not to be blown up. I doubt if they would ask if there is an app for that?

Iraq was and still is a big fat waste, and will be deemed by history as Bush’s defining failure as a leader.

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“Faith in a higher power. Faith in a sovereign God. Pretty simple actually.”

LL–Maybe I’m splitting hairs a little bit, but any God which exists outside of the world we know, who can “do anything” as you stated above, is the very definition of “supernatural”:

1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.

I understand the motivation for believing in such a supernatural being, given our limited powers of understanding and our desire for security in an unsecure world. Personally, I believe in God as well, or more specifically, Emmanuel: God Within.

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I still impressed that Obozo and the Dimocrats can and have spent more on the stimulius than the Iraq War cost! But they keep bashing Bush on how much the Iraq War cost! I guess they have never looked in a mirror but then again Pelosi would break a mirror and stop a clock!

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Bruno
August 31st, 2010
11:08 am

I’m not measuring your faith, or lack thereof. I won’t criticize you for what you believe. I just find it sad that so many relish the opportunity to take a shot at Christian’s about virtually anything. These same people play PC with every other group in the world, but Christian’s are open game.

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Get our troops home.

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USinUK
August 31st, 2010
11:12 am

Unfortunately the Bible is often used out of context. Take for instance when Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. He was illustrating how many “rich” people make their wealth their god and cannot seem to let it go. But this verse is often used to ridicule Jesus’s comment. It’s a “big picture” thing. Yoiu can take one verse that says Judas went and hung himself. You can then find another verse in the Bible that says go do ye likewise.

Again, I don’t pretend to have all the answers about the Bible. I just profess to be a Christian and try like crazy to live through Christ’s teachings.

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ohnoes!!! Dusty is displeased!!!

quick! sacrifice something!!!

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Faux TaxPayer
August 31st, 2010
11:21 am

Wow, how insightful. And so sincere as well.

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Just a quickie———————-

We know Saddam once HAD WMDs because,

our Harvard educated State-Department had the receipts.

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Wow, how insightful. And so sincere as well.

Oh, stop it, Leg of Lamp. Your praise is just too much. I’m gonna blush.

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Bruno:

My commitment was to stop judging whether bloggers/people lived up to the high standards they set for themselves by claiming that they are great Christians.

And I was your intended target, yet you failed to offer any evidence where I claimed I was a great Christian. To the contrary…I’ve admitted to my flaws while asking no one to meet a standard other than the one they feel comfortable with. It’s for God to judge whether they meet His standard.

You, on the other hand…seem to possess a fount of knowledge and advice to offer on the subject.

The thing I find most peculiar is how so many on the left ask that religion/faith/what-have-you be held within a private space. jay’s left-wingers wanna bring it into a public forum time and time again. Even when the topic is, in no way, related to faith/religion.

A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma…

Party on.

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“Bruno talks about religion and somebody’s song”

I’m confused, Dusty. You got something against religion?? Music??

“Is there nothing new for you folks? Every day ..the SAME THING???? Get outside. Get some fresh air.”

Physician, heal thyself.

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Hi Dusty!

“Paul sits on the fence”

Hardly. I just don’t feel compelled to see everything in terms of “here are your only TWO choices. Choose ONE.”

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Big D
August 31st, 2010
11:28 am

Thanks. I had heard that before, but the metaphor I mentioned is what I’ve heard more times than not. Both work for me.

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“Maybe Iraq won’t be a stable democracy as many of us would hope. Maybe that’s because Obama published his withdrawal schedule in th NY Times”

yeah. it’s was on such a great trajectory before then.

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“quick! sacrifice something!!!”

The old gal is consistent, you gotta give her that.

She seldom discusses the issue at hand, but she is ALWAYS troubled about somebody here.

If she couldn’t show up from time to time and serially insult numerous people, she would have to have some other hobby.

And if Bookman insisted that bloggers actually talk about the issues and not each other she would have been gone LONG ago.

OK, off to pay for more welfare for the wealthy…

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Only a con would consider the outcome in Iraq as a trillion dollars well spent while just sayin’ “charge it” and then complain about the bill when it comes due.

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TaxPayer
August 31st, 2010
11:38 am

And just how well spent has been the money thrown at LBJ’s “Great Society” programs? It far outweighs the $1 trillion you have assigned to Iraq.

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Doggone – 11:43 – yet another example of the “everything was going along swimmingly before the Kenyan got here” philosophy …

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USinUK
August 31st, 2010
11:44 am

No, no, no. It’s not “before the Kenyan got here”. It’s “before the Muslim got here”.

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Bruno:

Why thank you, @@. I do try.

Yes you do! All the while, declaring that everyone else’s fount runs dry, and that their advice is not welcome.

Whatever, dude. Again! It’s that mote/moot thingy.

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“When Obama took office Iraq was on a better or worse trajectory (to use your phrase) than it was when Bush took office?”

It should not have been on ANY trajectory involving US forces at all. We had not business being there in the first place.

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Big D

August 31st, 2010
11:28 am
Leg lamp..
The original passage was” it would be easier to pass a camel through THE (not A) eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven”
———————————————————————————————————
probably should read; it would be easier to pass a camel, than for a rich man to
enter the kingdom of heaven..

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Frog…
Now, that was funny…

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barking frog

August 31st, 2010
11:52 am

That’s no big deal. I drove past a camel once at a petting zoo (thus satisfying the stipulation that I “pass” a camel).

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Big D – 11:53 – trampolines.

conclusions.

my husband. any day of the week. (twice on sundays). or my celebrity free pass, Damian Lewis.

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Leg Lamp 11:57 if it’s that easy i guess the rich will stroll the
streets of gold..

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barking frog
August 31st, 2010
12:00 pm

Don’t know if they’ll stoll it, but perhaps they could fund it.

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Leg Lamp, USinUK, like always the rich guy gets a pass…

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barking frog

August 31st, 2010
12:02 pm

That or a good looking woman….

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leg lamp 12:05 yeh but the camel go through the needle
eye quicker..

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barking frog
August 31st, 2010
12:08 pm

Ha! good point.

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The opening scene of the war was excellent. The closing scene will be terrible.

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Dusty

I disagree, that luckovich cartoon is spot on. As great as America was, and still is in many respects, we trashed that country and its people for a lie, WMD. Remember, this plan was on the books as soon as cheney errr bush was selected president. What’s your take on jimmy carter, georgia’s native son? Now, there is a truly honest man but definately not one of our better presidents in my opinion,

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mick.. trashed a nation? lol..

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Dear Normal.

One thing I do to support the troops is to actually support them by not speaking against them while they are fighting. I have served as a volunteer in VA hospital, just not at this time. I help and contribute to the gift boxes sent to our two church members who serve in Iraq and Afghainstan. I receive the USO magazine “On Patrol ” which came after I sent a contribution. (It even has a nice “Poet’s corner” with poetry written by people in the Service”. I do not put stickers of any kind on my car. Is there anything else you would like to know?

Or maybe you would like to know that my parents are buried in the National Cemetery at Beaufort, SC? That every generation of my family has has someone who fought or served this country? That my oldest son has also served in the military? Just giving you an update since you seem to think yhou are the only one knows anything about serving in the military or supporting them.

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