Recasting Bush as the hero of Iraq is taking things much too far

Bush did it!

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Leave it to the Iraqis eh? Like I said below, I sure wouldn’t want to be a Kurdish, Christian, gay woman in what we’re leaving behind…but, hey, human rights is not real high on the agenda these days, are they?

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but..but…Exxon/Mobil got their contract and
we caught and the Iraqis killed Saddam that
tried to kill w’s daddy..How is he not a hero?

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This I could believe…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5_qhnWByA4

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How’s he gonna read that telepromptor tonight with his fake birth certificate glued to his forehead?

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Let’s talk about history, like from 2007 to 2008 and Democrats on Petraeus surge planning under Bush (yeah, that guy liberals snidely called Betrayus):

“I believe … that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything…” – Harry Reid

“I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.” – Senator Barrak Obama

“The Bush Surge will backfire” – General (RET) Wesley Clark

“This whole notion that the surge is working is fantasy.” – Senator Joe Biden

“I think it is very difficult for the President to sustain a war of this magnitude without the support of the American people, and without the support of the Congress of the United States. That’s why Congress will vote to oppose the President’s escalation.” – Nancy Pelosi

On and on and on we can go. But the point here is that Democrats wanted BUSH to fail. They could care less about whatever happened in Iraq. Thats not history revision – that’s the fact.Now that we know Democrats were wrong. Whether or not you were against the war in the first place is irrelevant. Democrats were wrong then and now they know Bush was right. Again, whether or not you were against the war is not up for debate here. Of course, I won’t even bring up the fact that a large enough portion of Democrats supported and voted for giving Bush authority to go to war in Iraq in the first place.

And by the way, all that time Democrats said that Afghanistan was the “real” war and Bush was taking his eye off the ball. Where are these same Democrats now on Afghanistan? But give credit to Democrats for one thing: they are taking their eye off the ball of their failed economic policies. Fortunately, tens of millions of people are no longer buying their bait-n-switch tactics depending on which way the political winds are blowing. Right now, people are more worried about where their next paycheck is going to come from than what’s going on in Iraq.

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President Hussein :

Let’s be fair. That “birth certificate” is not inaccurate, altered or counterfeit on its face. It is simply incomplete.

What Obama was talking about is his “Certification of Live Birth” which has minimal information.

His actual “Brith Certificate” has additional information such as the hospital of record and attending physician. If for no other reason, the National Park Service needs to know which hosptial so they can put up a marker.

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Bush invaded Iraq and history has been his judge. In my view the war was a mistake.
However, Obama has finished things up right on the schedule that Bush left when he left office. If all Obama can do is blame Bush, he will have further redueced himself, further diminished his presidency and minimzed himself as a leader. Obama needed to decide if he was going to be a leader or a democrat. So far, he has consistently chosen democrat.
All of us are poorer for his unremitting partisanship. And that includes Obama himself.

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Are the comments closed for the night ?

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Rewrite history? What’s one more…I just got through reviewing a “new and improved” American history text…Oy!

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Pres Obama telephoned Pres Bush?

That was gracious, and appropriate. Frankly, it’s about as far as it should go. The world stage is not the place for a president to announce to the world “before I was president, I was on record for a course of action that, in hindsight, probably wasn’t the best.” I know, some will argue he’s ‘apologized’ in the past. I’ll submit reflecting on a nation’s strengths and weaknesses and how to become more in line with what we proclaim ourselves to be is orders of magnitude different than an apology regarding a point in one’s political career.

Many have criticized him for so many “I” statements or ‘making it all about himself.’ Now’s not the time to change minds and have him start making more “I” statements.

Unless those doing the advocating want to apologize for being wrong in the past…

Jay

Far as I remember, it was one senior military leader, the Army Chief of Staff, who publicly said more troops would be needed for the occupation. He’d already announced his retirement and his assessment was in response to a direct Congressional question, I do believe.

Pres Bush’s assertion no-one else asked for more troops, even in the midst of the fiasco, just strengthens my belief that numerous Army commanders and the then (AF) Chief of Staff should have been fired. That’s a statement of personal belief – I realize the practical truth is those who had the authority to fire them were part of the blindness.

Anyone stop to think that all the hoopla over his remarks as a senator is what might have swung the balance in his decision to escalate in Afghanistan?

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Jay

Correction: “and the then (AF) Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff…”

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Obama needs to put on a flight suit and land on beck’s arse and claim mission accomplished…..

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Obama should hire the marketing team from the neocons who came up with the slogan, “Stay the Course”, maybe that will by him sometime, although I doubt the frothing lunatic christian right would give him a nanosecond to resolve the mess they made……

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Exactly, if we had not invaded a sovereign nation on poor intelligence, or a down right lie, in the first place, then we would not have nearly 5000 dead Americans, a trillion dollars in debt to China, and over 100,000 dead Iraqis on Bush’s hands. History will clearly judge this fiasco for what it was, just that.

Need I add that the “surge” started to work when we wised up and started paying the Sunnis to stop fighting. Just what will happen if when we stop paying them? Civil War, again?

We broke this country, destroyed the infrastructure with shock and awe and now we are finally leaving. Who knows how it will end. Without a functioning government, abject corruption and nearly weekly, if not daily violence, I would hardly categorize this a victory.

What a waste, so many dead and wounded for life, for so little.

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Bush did what was right for the people of Iraq; freedom that America was founded on. What can O’Bam say he has done for the American people?

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Nan,

“What can O’Bam say he has done for the American people?”

Uh, ruined the economy?

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LOL……..Bush decides what is best for Iraqis……………..Just how would you and yours react to Islamic Troops taking over America and having your streets occupied by troops with guns and humvees? Maybe they think Islam is the way America should be? No wonder they hate us, the supreme arrogance of some Americans. We know what is best for you and your country, so shut up and stop fighting us.

As a matter of fact it sounds a lot like what we said to the Native Americans. And we all know how that turned out for them.

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Bush is a butthole (and his followers too).

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no josef, It is the exact mind set that White Settlers had towards Native Americans. We are superior and our way is best, if you do not agree to give us what we want we will kill you and take it.

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GOP

Okay, two questions. First, may I see your CDIB card and second are you living on land seized under the terms of the Treaty of New Echota and depopulated during Removal?

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paleo

I agree with that summation. And the Kurds have got Israel on their side…

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GOP is Gone re: “mindset’ Absolutely .The movie AVATAR brought this out in no uncertain terms!!

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Yes josef, I probably am living on land that was stolen from Creeks and Cherokees, as are you. Not being say 250 years old, I cannot take personal responsibility. However, the mind set of thinking “we” know what is best for countries thousands of miles away from us in distance and culture is down right stupid.

I was watching interviews of the “Tea” people. One likened himself to a native American, knowing just how he felt when his country was taken away. I wish the interviewer had asked him just when
had armed men shot his wife and children, rounded up whom ever was left and locked them up on uninhabitable land far, far away, since he knows just how they felt.

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The surge was more a cash outlay than a ramp up in troops. We paid the enemy to stop shooting American soldiers. Money talks, all else walks!

That’s the American way. Buy your victory.

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Hindsight’s 20/20, but we should’a killed Muqtada al Sadr when we had the chance. He now sits in Iran acting as their go-between. So many people we SHOULD’A killed.

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paleo

The Kurds are definitely the wild card in this hand…

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GOP and josef, don’t know how I feel, as I am a native American. who was that other native of Duluth, MN? you know the Jewish guy who riffed the Bible and sang about “…to everything, turn, turn, turn…”? it’s hard to ‘figger out what any of us would have done in back in the day? I am Italian and my paisanos are from a tiny, remote outpost in “south central” Italy, which was kind of a R&R stop for the invading Teutonic armies (egad, I’m like half a freakin’ kraut!). so, while GOP’s point is valid on a very abstract level, it was kind of the nature of man (especially, but not exclusively Europeans) to explore for the purposes of expanding empires (and empires are commercial in nature, not political – politics is just the nudge used to send soldiers into battle). I’m drifting here, but a couple weeks ago, I was running and it occurred to me, in life we are either prisoners of our own arrogance, or prisoners of the arrogance of others (with a handful of kind of independent souls). if you study psych, you know about narcissim. in a narcissitic relationship there is a parasite and a host. to be more graphic; you’re either f**king someone or being f**ked by someone. like the Republic’s dealings with the Indians, Bush had the power to f**k Iraq (and the American people). and that’s all I have to say about that.

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The “greatest foreign-policy blunder”?

That’s the absolute ridiculous hyperbole we’ve come to expect from the ajc. So, in terms of subjects Jay Bookman knows little about, we already have science, economics, and now we can add history, of which he specializes in kooky liberal bias.

Here are some ideas for far greater “foreign-policy” blunders:
1. The Treaty of Versailles
2. The Creek War and the Trail of Tears
3. Allowing the rise of a nuclear Iran
4. Forming an alliance with the Soviet Union
5. Allowing the Rosenbergs and others to steal nuclear secrets
6. Mis-handling of the Iranian revolution by Jimmy Carter
7. The Bay of Pigs

This is open for discussion, of course, but I would maintain that because the Iraq war was largely successful in terms of what we can see so far, as a final outcome, and these mistakes resulted in more disastrous consequences and suffering, then we ought to count them before Iraq.

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paleo

I just passed on your native American to Unmentionable…he said, hat’s off to ya! He gets in a snit whenever anybody so politically correctly calls him Native American…”d*mn, anybody born on these two continents is a f’ing “native” American. If you’re not going to call me a man, then you must be talking about me from an anthropoligical paradigm, in which case it’s Indigenous American. More specifically, I’m Chahta-Tsa-la-gi. Otherwise, Indian is just fine by me…but out of respect for my Asian sub-continent fellow humans, American Indian is a little more accurate…”

As to what else you were saying, his comment is, “oh, I could definitely play that card, but then, what would the ones say that we displaced in the pre Columbian because the Great Buzzard told us it was ours…same song, different dance…”

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buck@gon
My list wouldn’t be entirely your list, but the point is well made…this is just the one we’re dealing with now…

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Bush – One of the greatest Presidents in history.
Obama – makes Georgians feel better – we did not produce the worst President in history (only the second worst).

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Time is fleeting and got some loose ends to tie up before calling it a day…

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Moral equivalence in the empty headed, self-congratulatory, morally vain, liberal left….

From National Review and Dennis Prager:

First, on May 25, PBS host Tavis Smiley interviewed Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the ex-Muslim Somali writer and activist for human, especially women’s, rights in Islamic countries. After mentioning American Muslim terrorists Major Nidal Hasan (who murdered 13 fellow soldiers and injured 30 others at Fort Hood) and Faisal Shahzad (who attempted to murder hundreds in Times Square), this dialogue ensued:

Ali: “Somehow, the idea got into their [Hasan’s and Shahzad’s] minds that to kill other people is a great thing to do and that they would be rewarded in the hereafter.”

Smiley: “But Christians do that every single day in this country.”

Ali: “Do they blow people up?”

Smiley: “Yes. Oh, Christians, every day, people walk into post offices, they walk into schools, that’s what Columbine is — I could do this all day long. There are so many more examples of Christians — and I happen to be a Christian.

“There are so many more examples, Ayaan, of Christians who do that than you could ever give me examples of Muslims who have done that inside this country, where you live and work.”

Then, on August 22, Michel Martin, host of NPR’s Tell Me More, in discussing whether the Islamic Center and mosque planned for near Ground Zero should be moved, said this on CNN’s Reliable Sources with Howard Kurtz: “Should anybody move a Catholic church? Did anybody move a Christian church after Timothy McVeigh, who adhered to a cultic white supremacist cultic version of Christianity, bombed [the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City]?”

MESSAGE: You should be tolerant of Muslim terrorism (you stupid gullible American) because YOU are guilty of much worse! It’s an adolescent-level guilt trip for the ignorant, and the answer to a question no one asked.

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Five US soldiers killed as Afghan casualties mount

“We have seen casualties go up because we are taking the fight to Al-Qaeda and the Taliban,” Obama said. “It is going to be a tough slog.”

Translation: “war forever. ceaseless unending, shockingly expensive war.”

Not to worry. These were hapless soldiers who wanted to go to Afghanistan. As long as they don’t make little Junior go I’m OK with it!

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Marko thanks for the kind remarks.

Imagine this scenario:

Obama issues an executive order calling for a cease to all combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and for closing 80% of all American overseas bases. In addition, an immediate reduction of 80% of the U.S. Defense budget to be used to pay down the deficit and for infrastructure rebuilding.

How long do you think it would take for him to have a “JFK Dallas Moment?”

My guess is less than a week.

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Buck@gon: please feel free to post a link to something that contradicts my post. I would be interested in reading it.

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Sooth,

“Translation: “war forever. ceaseless unending, shockingly expensive war.”

Not to worry. These were hapless soldiers who wanted to go to Afghanistan. As long as they don’t make little Junior go I’m OK with it!”

I’m well aware of your cynicism. You feel regretful of the war in some way, either personally or emotionally. War is evil you guess. Is there a greater evil?

That’s a moral question you dare not answer, for if you do, you will understand that sometimes there are greater evils that must be confronted. A choice must be made to act or not, and this decision must be made without passion or prejudice but with reason. You can criticize the reasoning, and one should, but I haven’t seen any of that. What I’m seeing is an ad hoc straw-man critique of war unjustified by reason.

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…or we’ll know it’s just BS.

Who granted you the authority to speak for anyone other than yourself?

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Where in the world is Osama Bin Laden? We fought in Iraq to
keep from fighting him in New York City near Ground Zero.
We are fighting in Afghanistan to keep from fighting him
in Murfreesboro TN..Does anybody know exactly why we
are in Afghanistan? protecting poppies?

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How’s that “hope and change” working for you?

Just fine, but then again—I supported Juan McSame in the last election cycle.

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If things don’t go well, in 3 or 4 years “Time to turn the page” may be viewed the same as “Mission Accomplished”.

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When Bush left office it was STILL one of America’s greatest successes, just sayin…

It is now the dummycrats war to lose, so they dissemble.

(What’s up with the CAP attack, anyway?)

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buck@gon: the best number I could find is $1 trillion. I don’t where they got the $5 trillion in the article. One thing’s for sure, it’s going to be a lot.

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Only YOU would say such a foolish thing. Who else would get the credit?
Nobama, I don’t think so. Remember this Nobama gem:

• Quote: “I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war….You can take that to the bank!”

Obviously he was talking about one of the bail-out banks! mmm, mmm, mmm.

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Where is the uproar? If Bush was prez, you looney libs would be all over this…The silence is unbelieveable, but expected. mmm, mmm, mmm

Until the late month spike, it appeared that the death toll for August would be well below the back-to-back monthly records of 66 in July and 60 in June.

By the middle of August 13 Americans had been killed – in part because of greater use of heavily armored vehicles and other defenses against roadside bombs, the Taliban weapon of choice.

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Hey ………….. POTUS just sent me an email !!!

“Tonight marks the end of the American combat mission in Iraq.

As a candidate for this office, I pledged to end this war responsibly. And, as President, that is what I am doing.

Since I became Commander-in-Chief, we’ve brought home nearly 100,000 U.S. troops. We’ve closed or turned over to Iraq hundreds of our bases.

As Operation Iraqi Freedom ends, our commitment to a sovereign, stable, and self-reliant Iraq continues. Under Operation New Dawn, a transitional force of U.S. troops will remain to advise and assist Iraqi forces, protect our civilians on the ground, and pursue targeted counterterrorism efforts.

By the end of next year, consistent with our agreement with the Iraqi government, these men and women, too, will come home.

Ending this war is not only in Iraq’s interest — it is in our own. Our nation has paid a huge price to put Iraq’s future in the hands of its people. We have sent our men and women in uniform to make enormous sacrifices. We have spent vast resources abroad in the face of several years of recession at home.

We have met our responsibility through the courage and resolve of our women and men in uniform.

In seven years, they confronted a mission as challenging and as complex as any our military has ever been asked to face.

Nearly 1.5 million Americans put their lives on the line. Many returned for multiple tours of duty, far from their loved ones who bore a heroic burden of their own. And most painfully, more than 4,400 Americans have given their lives, fighting for people they never knew, for values that have defined our people for more than two centuries.

What their country asked of them was not small. And what they sacrificed was not easy.

For that, each and every American owes them our heartfelt thanks.

Our promise to them — to each woman or man who has donned our colors — is that our country will serve them as faithfully as they have served us. We have already made the largest increase in funding for veterans in decades. So long as I am President, I will do whatever it takes to fulfill that sacred trust.

Tonight, we mark a milestone in our nation’s history. Even at a time of great uncertainty for so many Americans, this day and our brave troops remind us that our future is in our own hands and that our best days lie ahead.”

Thank you,

President Barack Obama

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Bush’s war….Bush’s win.. of sorts..Let’s see how fast Obama leaves…

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Well, this is not really surprising since the current administration cannot stand true American patriotism:

Headline: “Department of Justice ditches red, white and blue stars and stripes (on Website)”

See for yourself ……………..

http://www.justice.gov/

http://us.mc1115.mail.yahoo.com/mc/welcome?.gx=1&.tm=1283304018&.rand=8gevsbukmj7p8#_pg=showMessage;_ylc=X3oDMTBvamJjMmxoBF9TAzM5ODMwMTAyNwRhYwNtdkZsZE1zZw–&mid=1_132856_ANMPw0MAASXqTH2WwAMdUDBQ1%2Fg&fid=Inbox&sort=date&order=down&startMid=0&filterBy=&.rand=1727862260&hash=0d7ab25d80a14146d671c67a304c4edd&.jsrand=1757982

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the born-again moron pulled the greatest frat-boy caper of all-time….leaving the World, Iraq and the US in tatters…..

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Well, President Obama’s speech was very nice. Thanking the troops was excellent. If he could govern aw well as he can speak, he wouldn’t be at the bottom of the approval polls. Unfortunately, the art of eloquence is his only attribute. His speech writers are OK. His policy makers are pathetic. What a shame!!

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Dusty:

And his views on what America should be are dangerous, unpatriotic, divisive and shameful.

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Conscientious objectors are the real heroes, war is a canard, never was about god or country, all about greed and avarice, wrapped in a lie to dupe simpletons to fight for the oligarchy……

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Buck, I’m gonna have to call B.S. on your list (and I hope and pray – as much as agnostics pray – you are not ranking these FP blunders)
1. The Treaty of Versailles – much like most “foreign policy” of the time, it was not a “blunder” so much as halftime between wars. and #1? only if you were a Nazi, and the list was “reasons we need to start another war”.

2. The Creek War and the Trail of Tears – pretty sure this was “domestic policy”. I mean, we’ve established that once the Republic was formed, our issue with indigneous Americans were a domestic issue, unless of course you are of Creek or Cherokee lineage, in which case, dealing in good faith with white settlers was the ULTIMATE “foreign policy blunder”. Buck are you Creek or Cherokee?

3. Allowing the rise of a nuclear Iran – excuse me, you must be Jewish. Iran is Saddam with more sophistication. To this day, the United State is the ONLY NATION to every use nuclear weapons against another nation. it will suck is Iran uses one, or sells one, but until they have not committed an act of war. consider this; Iran loves the attention. they like bowing up to “the great Satan”. when I was a jock we used to say; idle chatter don’t matter.” if Iran “going nuclear” is a FP blunder, what does this say about Truman’s decision in August (acutually July) 1945?

4. Forming an alliance with the Soviet Union – I must have been sleeping during the Cold War? Are you talking about WWII? The USSR suffered 25 million killed and took a fair amount of starch out of Hitler and the Nazis. unless you are dovetailing this with #1 (Versailles) I have not idea what you’re talking about. OH, and the USSR, like Luca Brasi, sleeps with the fishes. this was only a blunder if they died owing us money.

5. Allowing the Rosenbergs and others to steal nuclear secrets

Again, my good friend, this was domestic policy. The Rosenberg were American citizens, working in Federally funded labs. If security was lax, this was a domestic (DoD) issue and not a foreign poicy (Department of State) issue.

6. Mis-handling of the Iranian revolution by Jimmy Carter

I love this one. The Iranian revolution was put in motion in the 50’s (CIA). in fact the 1979 dust-up was something of a counter-revolution or counter-coup. or, are you referring to “Desert 1″? Carter gave the greenlight. whether human error or equipment failure, he authorized the rescue.

7. The Bay of Pigs – again, CIA plan, and at the last minute they wanted air support, which changes the dynamic from covert CIA opertion to act of war (invasion).

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scout
**And his views on what America should be are dangerous, unpatriotic, divisive and shameful.**

Relax, he will be out of office one day and we will go on. Now do you know how so many felt about his predecessor? Your above statement could easily have been attributed to bush. Try catching the rerun of rachel maddow – she completely nails it with facts, something an investigator should appreciate.

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The Iraq war is the supreme example of how dangerous the politics of fear can be.

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[...] ET: The Republicans are going full-bore for the “credit Bush” approach on Iraq, but blogger Jay Bookman at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has a different [...]

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Obama treated Bush with dignity and respect tonight. Anybody here foolish enough to think the R’s will do the same to him? Not a chance.

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Neo-con boys and bush chickenhawks playing soldier.

And it cost the nation 6,787 American lives. And counting.

Their kids should be among them…

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Murkowski has conceded in Alaska.

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Paleo @ 10:32 — thank you.

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Midori

August 31st, 2010
10:30 pm
Murkowski has conceded in Alaska.

And apparently Joe Miller thinks that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional.

“You have also taken some fairly controversial — some would say very extreme — positions,” CBS’ Bob Schieffer told Miller Sunday. “First you say you want to phase out Medicare. You want to privatize Social Security. I have to say there are a lot of people in Alaska who are on Medicare and are getting Social Security. Isn’t that position going to be a problem for you in the election, in this general election?” asked Schieffer.

“I would suggest to you that if one thinks that the Constitution is extreme then you would also think that the founders are extreme,” answered Miller.

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Dusty,
“What this lib crowd wanted ws a total defeat so they could say ONCE MORE..Bush did it!”

You could not be more wrong! I have never desired American failure in any respect no matter who was president. And don’t forget it was conservatives that said they wanted “Obama to fail”.

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AmVet.

Were you a chickenhawk when you were in the service? Tell us about WWII. That was yours, wasn’t it? Funny how people who support the military make you very indignant? Are you ashamed of being a vet or something?

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and Bush DID do it, Dusty.

The Human Race will NEVER forget what he did to the Iraqi people.

And don’t give me that crap about freeing them. He freed them from their lives and dignity, if anything.

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paleo-neo-Carlinist

When I was new here, Granny Godzilla informed me of Dilbert’s law #14:

“Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”

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Kamchack, Midori, and any sane conservatives; consider this. I think Soothsayer’s post (cited as “nailed it” by Kam) says it all. the “debt-fueled spending” started by Ronald “deficits don’t matter” Reagan was the first crack in the dike. I would argue that the recession and the housing bubble/collapse really don’t have much to do with George Bush (though the Paulson/Goldman Sachs conflict of interest/TARP mess certainly does). so, to that extent, Bush was just being a POTUS, trading in patronage and cronyism. But Iraq was far more “private”. Iraq, and the oil mess is the Bush “family business” and Bush was PUT IN OFFICE to wage war; period. to that extent, he is no different than Lyndon Johnson (was it Mako who opined about the “JFK/Dallas” moment?). the banks, including the Federal Reserve created the bubble, inflated it, and profited from it’s collapse. the fact that the “bubble” was concurrent with Bush’s crusade was just kinda one of those imperfect storms as far as working Americans go. so let’s be fair; the banks own ALL POTUSs. Steagal -Glass was repealed and the derivitives mess goes back to Clinton. Iraq is Bush’s and Bush’s alone, and he doesn’t care because he and his crowd “got paid” (just as the banks got paid in 2008)

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Kamchak,

Granny always says that when she looks in a mirror and sees ….. an idiot.

MIdori,

I believe you have said you were in the military. Did you lose sleep over the people you were trained to kill or did you consider it part of your duty as protector of the USA? Bush was doing his duty as protector of the USA. I think he made the best choice when I consider the alternative.

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Answer the question AMVET? Are you ashamed of being a veteran or you just like to complain about everybody and everything?

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Am Wet,

Enlighten Dusty and I on your patriotic contribution to the defense of this country. We are all anxiously awaiting your latest revelation, big words and all.

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A despicable lout of a woman.

Not even in the least. Dusty is a darling of decorum and a fine voice for the greatness this country can be.

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Mick:

Nope. “El Jefe” has done immeasurable harm already.

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Neo..

You are just on a windy wild goose chase. There was no war or terrorist attack on the USA when Bush was elected. Americans voted for him because they liked his good record as governor of Texas, his service in the military, his good education which included an MBA, his attractive wife, and his honest and unassuming manner.

He was elected even as Democrats used every dirty trick they could concoct against him.. But Americans wisely chose him over Gore. What a good move!! Gore would have been a disaster. Americans can usually spot a phony. I said USUALLY..but they did not miss with Bush.

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Dusty:

I think Midori was a Navy SEAL . Or more precisely for the women a Navy Cow (a female seal).

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“Bush was doing his duty as protector of the USA. I think he made the best choice when I consider the alternative”.

Dusty, and exactly what was Bush protecting “us” against?

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**But Americans wisely chose him over Gore. What a good move!! Gore would have been a disaster. Americans can usually spot a phony. I said USUALLY..but they did not miss with Bush.**

Then we had 911, who ignored the warnings? Who left afghanistan for iraq? Who was sitting in the oval office when the economy collapsed? Thanks but no thanks. Gore got more votes and if you want an honest man to look up to how’s about jimmy carter and his wife, now thats some real folk not some prefab rich kid born on third base.

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This whole think was done because Obama was being pressured by Dem Congressman to try to up his popularity. They are desparate. He makes me gag.

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War settles nothing.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower

A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.” -Thomas Jefferson

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison

“I had other priorities”- eight deferment dick

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Popeye,

Bush was protecting us against enemies who wanted to kill us and they got off to a quick start with three thousand. Now think hard. Remember those bad people??? Nope, not Pearl Harbor. Nope, not the Alamo. Ahhh 9/11!! You got it. Very good. Tomorrow we will have another history lesson.

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w was a disaster but Obama covered up his crimes and moved the country forward.

Next July , Afghanistan will be over too and we are back to the good old days of Clinton peace and prosperity.

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“Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea.”

Samuel Johnson

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Dusty… I call Bullsh*t on your 11:25! Perhaps it is you who needs that history lesson?

Name one Iraqi on board any of the aircraft on 9/11…Oh! you can’t. Didn’t think so!

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“When civilized man can no longer stand the horror of war and refuses to fight, then he will surely be killed or enslaved by the uncivilized who can.”

Author Unknown

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“While we are certain there are no good wars, we are not so naive as to believe that there are no necessary wars.”

Lt. General Harold Moore (Author – “We Were Soldiers Once and Young”)

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Dusty, slight editorial note, I am a paleo-neo-Carlinist – not a neo-Carlinist. the neo-Carlinsit name was hijacked (by someone at the kids’ table).

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. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” –speaking underneath a “Mission Accomplished” banner aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, May 1, 2003

“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” –Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001

“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” –Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002

“You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.” –interview with CBS News’ Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” –State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that administration officials knew at the time to be false

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brett,

My guess is you sit down to pee…

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“No one is free when others are oppressed.” Author Unknown

“A bad plan executed violently is better than a good plan executed slowly.” General Patton

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” John Stuart Mill

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” George Orwell

Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!”

“Salus populi suprema lex. ~ The safety of the people is the highest law”

“’sic vis pacum, para bellum’ ~ If you want peace prepare for war”

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ Sir Edmund Burke.

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Brett:

India Company
3rd Battalion, 4th Marines
Vietnam 1967-68 (Northern I Corps)
Scout Sniper

34 years federal law enforcement – retired.

You can confirm this with Jay if you like ……….. or not. No skin off my teeth.

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“I’ve always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, “Never hit anyone in anger, unless you’re absolutely sure you can get away with it.” I don’t know what kind of soldier I’m gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat… I’ll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.” Stripes

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rw

Yeah right – like you really know how the money was spent. Then, why are so many repubs taking credit for the funds in their districts? Doesn’t matter anyway, can’t expect too much from a ditto head.

Mick,

I’m not sure which load of money you’re talking about, but war cost money has a significant portion spent here in equipment and such and Porkulus money spending has its own web site. You’re not usually into the pointless name calling so I hope all is well with you.

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Scout, thanks for not posting the John Adams screed about Islam…

but, you strike me as one who sees value, even “knowledge” in the words of others. I’ve posted this one before:

“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.” Herman Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

I can’t determine of Bush, Cheney, Rove, et al were just riffing the Nazi play book, or if “great minds” actually “think alike” (which would mean evil minds think alike as well)

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Brett:

Please see my 11:48 and 11:52

Again, you can confirm this with Jay if you like.

I’ll be looking for your credentials in the morning.

Have a good evening ………………

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rw

I guess its because I know people whose jobs have been saved because of the stimulus. When I see the word porkulus, I think of limbaugh and his high school level educational bs. Things get the short shrift on a blog but when you see how it has had a positive effect on some families that are hard workers and play by the rules, whats wrong with that? I really don’t have an issue with you, so to speak.

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Neo Carliphant,

I remnded you not to get windy and you set off a hurricane. Let’s see.

I approve of the Electoral College way of electing our leaders. Gore lost.

I approve of our legal system with Supreme Courts making legal decisions. Gore lost.

The National Guard is a military service. Bush served.

I am an American so I can speak for Americans just as well as you or any other American..

You may find filthy politicians and talking heads repugnant but I don’t feel that way about Obama.

Now hush! We already have a hurricane off the east coast. We don’t need more wind here.

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RW, my friend,

Just call me Dolly Decorum! (Thank you, kind sir.)

PS..the Braves played really GOOD tonight. I enjoyed that game…Go Braves!!

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scout

Yes he did and I agree, but he did one thing that you or I would not – he didn’t complete the mission when it came to his service. The irony of course is that he sent the reserves into combat in iraq and in many cases, their death.

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**I do know that kicking a job loss down to the next corner didn’t “save” the job.**

Tell that to the family down the street with a mortgage and kids to feed. Hopefully the economy will pick up and then you can consider it a bridge to more stable employment. Don’t get caught up in one dimensional thinking especially when it comes to someone else’s life. I pay taxes and support the stimulus, que sera, sera.

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Mick,

Illusion versus reality is easier for some and I can understand that, but if your job is being funded by temporary cash infusions you might want to switch to reality based thinking.

Dusty,

I can call you Dolly D except on Fridays when that moniker might get confusing to the “deep cut” wannabe DJ’s we have crawling all over this place.

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rw

My job is secure, this is getting pointless. Having a real paycheck versus no paycheck all be it temporary, is better than no paycheck at all – and that ain’t no illusion.

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Dusty:

Thank you for the kind words and for watching my back.

See you tomorrow !

Semper Fi

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I would definitely try-out a restaurant called porkulus…

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AmVet,

Nobody is hiding behind my skirt as you suggested. I just checked. Not a soul.

If there were someone, you would have heard a schreech from here to down town.

You seem a bit off your feed today. Your insults are not as “poignant” as usual. Try an aspirin. Might help.

Now, off to bed. Getting late. Goodnight one and all and U 2, Grumpy….

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If my memory serves me correct, the war began in 2003, not 2007. Revisionist idiots want to make you think that sending additional tropps helped. Neyt! The turning point came when the military stared bribing tribal council leaders not to shoot at our troops, extortion is a better name for it. Repukes can try to revise history all they want, it’s not going to help. If Bush and Cheney thought that they liberated the Iraqi people then why haven’t they gone back? For Repukes to claim credit for anything in this fiasco is both laughable and sad. Why don’t they tell that to parents and love ones of soldiers who died or were severely injured fighting a bogus war. Ask Boehner where are the WMD’s they so loudly claimed were hidden in Iraq. If Boehner and other idiots believe that Iraq was a success, then go over there, without any security and meet the people you liberated!!

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Next mission: Economy -Urinal

They haven’t destroyed it yet?

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Bush was a hero to the chairborne 101st but that’s about all…

When Bush lets us know where he was those last couple years when he went AWOL, then I’ll care about a birth certificate…

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But most of the denizens today are Peter Pan-ian liberals who declared in the 1960s that they had no intention of growing up. And, as long as they are in power, they don’t have to. They write the history books, they report the news as they would have it portrayed and they teach our kids that, as in Never-Never-Land, they don’t need to fret about responsibility as long as there are evil, rich grownups to be taxed to care for them. And if life really isn’t that way, it should be; and that’s the point.

This is what enables them to act with such certainty in matters where their positions have either been proved wrong or are mere theories. That is why they can believe wholeheartedly that man can cause changes in the climate; that taxing the rich will stimulate the economy; that the way to foster equality between the races is to favor one over the other; or that the murder of unborn children is somehow liberating to women: because in the islands of their minds, that’s the way it should be.

What more can you add to that?

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So, the AJC headline is that a police chief was accused of having wild sex parties.

as opposed to boring sex parties?

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Obama is the worst president in American History! Glad his days in office are numbered!

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Obama is the worst president in American History! Glad his days in office are numbered!

Has there been a day since 11/5/2008 when GOPers haven’t been bleating some variant of this?

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those artificial funds

You do understand that all of this stuff we call “money”, which is exchanged as a representation of value for goods and services being produced, is actually artificial, correct?

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the speech was well written.

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I object! It’s a setup. I’m as innocent as Blogo. I’m no more guilty than Nathan.

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I will go on record here as stating that I am deeply ashamed of myself for not having opposed the Iraq invasion and occupation. I allowed myself to believe the Very Serious Liberals who told me that installing a puppet government friendly to ours would be a snap, and a vast improvement over what the long-suffering citizens of Iraq had been forced to tolerate as a result of our policies since the first Gulf War.

I don’t know if getting out in the streets, egging Bush’s motorcade, and so forth would’ve made a difference. But looking back, perhaps I could’ve called and emailed and generally harassed the weasels on the masthead of the New Republic, to the point where maybe they would’ve dialed back their Iraq war cheerleading just a bit. Maybe that would’ve given some other Senator the backbone to give another speech on the floor in addition to Byrd’s. Maybe there’d have been more widespread skepticism of this operation from the outset, and cooler heads (who knows, maybe I should include GW Bush’s here) would’ve prevailed.

I didn’t do that, and it probably doesn’t mean jack one way or another, but I can’t really know that.

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which words were those?

Seriously?

“I hope he fails.”

And for the record, it was five days before the Inauguration. I may be off here, but in my mind, it set the tone for the GOP rhetoric to follow. Virtually nobody in the GOP dares to question the wisdom of Limbaugh; after “I hope he fails” we had people like Jim DeMint talking about “breaking” Obama. Die was cast. There was never to be even the semblance of cooperation.

And I’m not complaining here; this is politics, not beanbag. Just acknowledging recent history.

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“as opposed to boring sex parties?”

Or even tame ones?

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Doggone … now, taking him to task for hosting a boring sex party, THAT I understand … (along with wearing white shoes after Labor day and VPL) … but wild sex parties …

maybe he forgot the thank-you notes …

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USinUK – looks like there are anonymous letters involved. Wonder if the person who wrote them will ever come out in the open?

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Doggone … I don’t think you get a mulligan for that …

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Is that a two stroke penalty?

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a mulligan?

A do over…

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Thanks! Just hadn’t heard that one before.

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Bush and his cronies are certainly responsible for Iraq but it is hardly something that one should label as a success. On the contrary, it was a complete and utter failure.

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I did all of those things, even took a trip to Crawford

Hung out with “the bitch in the ditch,” did you? or was this pre-Cindy Sheehan?

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USinUK,
Ah, the Windmill…I just gave myself a par and walked to the next hole…

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stands for decibels

September 1st, 2010
7:56 am

Yeah, I went down there with Cindy, but I had gone to meet Randi Rhodes…

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Get ‘em, GrannyG!!

the thing that always pi$$ed me off about the lead-up to the war was the credence given to Ahmed Chalabi (thanks Judith!) … I mean, I haven’t lived in GA for 15 years – would anyone here think I would be 1) an expert in GA government, much less 2) know about any military secrets buried at Dobbins AFB? yet, there was Chalabi who left the country in 1956 – nineteen-fifty-flipping-SIX!!! – and they were processing “intel” from him like he was the proverbial burning bush …

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btw … if you haven’t seen Green Zone, they did a fantastic job portraying the idiots who tried to install Chalabi …

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“We should be asking the IRAQIs that.”

dear iraq … don’t look at your current situation as us wrecking the joint, look at it as an opportunity for you to remodel …

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(thanks Judith!)

UnU, while I know that wasn’t the point of your post, I want to get into the political weeds just a bit.

I don’t think there’s anything you or I can really do to convince the right-leaners in our midst just how gruesomely supportive the so-called “liberal” media really was at the time.

It’s just one of many reasons I just despair at those who, today, claim “why should I respect your President? You never respected mine!” who are completely ignorant of the widespread support Bush’s policies enjoyed among (supposed) Democrats and so-called liberal-friendly media like the NYTimes, Washington Post, and yes, I’ll mention them again because they were more influential among Serious Liberals than anyone likes to remember, The New Republic.

You go down the timeline, and that’s two plus years of nearly unwavering foreign policy support for Bush, and it only really fell apart after the first five hundred or so American soldiers were blown to bits after “major combat operations have ended.”

And they want to compare that to going all “I hope he fails” / “Yassuh Massuh Rush”, right out of the box, before Obama had even taken his oath of office?

Bloody hell.

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they did a fantastic job portraying the idiots who tried to install Chalabi …

Netflix queue will been notified.

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dB – 8:12

don’t get me started on Chris Matthews, the entire crew at CNN and, it made my eyes bleed at the time, NPR.

you are absolutely spot on about the support the president had after 9/11 and in the lead-up to the war. not ONE member of the white house press corpse (misspelling intentional) could be bothered to push back on the stories that were being fed to them. they were stenographers, not investigators.

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“I still think it was a positive outcome on balance, WMD’s or not.”

You do realize you’ve just admitted you believe the end justifies the means, don’t you?

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funny.. i remember the first time we went there.. dems cried we had too many troops there.. then when the surge came up.. dems again cried it wouldnt work. did it work? we wont know in our lifetime.

its easy to pen a critique will sitting behind a keyboard and a monitor..

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Oh yeah, BOO, “global warming”

PAPER: CLIMATE CHANGE LIES ARE EXPOSED…

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“dems cried we had too many troops there”

That’s right. Even ONE soldier there was too many.

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“we don’t want to be remembered as bad people.”

We lost nearly 5000 soldiers, the Iraqis lost somewhere over 100,000 citizens (I’ve seen estimates from 118,000 to 150,000) and it’s all good because ONE MAN is dead?

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Doggone, while I may or may not believe that the ends justify the means, I don’t think that’s what happened in Iraq. I think they ignored countervailing intelligence, but genuinely believed there were WMD’s. Turns out there weren’t. One of the biggest intelligence and judgment failures in history.

That all said, I’m glad 20 million people no longer live under a brutal dictator. Blah blah, there are lots of dictatorships and we can’t go overthrow them all – I know. But I’m glad Saddam is gone and that democracy, with all its failings in Iraq currently, is flourishing, at least for now. We’ll see if it holds.

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And don’t even get me talking about regulations. Regulations will be the death of us all. I did my best to get rid of regulations. Honest I did. That’s what good Republicans do in order to preserve the profits.

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Back to “real” news of the day. No parade but its’ over in Iraq. LOL

RAMADI, Iraq, Sept. 1, 2010 – The war in Iraq is over and the United States is entering the final phase of the U.S. engagement in Iraq, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said here today.

U.S. combat operations have ceased, the secretary said. American forces are still participating in some counterinsurgency operations with the Iraqis, and they are training and advising and assisting Iraqi forces, but the United States is not at war in Iraq.

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“Joe Miller, backed by Sarah Palin”

reminds me what women say about Alaskan men … “the odds are good, but the goods are odd”

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an administration could “lie” to get us into war.. however an administration would never “lie” to push through something like.. i dunno.. healthcare?

I know! Because healthcare is such a killer. Regulations is what we need to lie about, I mean, talk about because that is where the greatest potential for profits lie.

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Claiming no victory, President Barack Obama formally ended the U.S. combat role in Iraq after seven long years of bloodshed, declaring firmly Tuesday night: “It’s time to turn the page BACKWARD.”

What a leader or a joke?

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I’m curious if this supposed “meltdown’ will be of the caliber of that amazing 2006 GOP debacle.

Remember cons? Or have you, ahem, “forgotten”?

Going ZERO for 36???!!! An O-fer. A first in the republic’s long history. NEVER to be replicated again.

Or do you think it will be more like that fantastic GOP rally 2008?

Where the neo-conned went a fantastic 5 and 41?

A combined winning percentage of………………………….7%

So even if the cons have a helluva November and another one in 2012, it is almost a certainty that they STILL won’t be where they were before George of the Bungle and Gang shiite (get it?) the bed.

It’s a good thing the Einsteinian cons are running the space program of the BCS. They would have had UGA winning the national championship last year…

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Bush is more of a hero than Obama is. What branch did Obama serve in again?

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“I think they ignored countervailing intelligence, but genuinely believed there were WMD’s”

The USSR, Canada, England, France, Israel all have WMDs. Why haven’t we invaded them? Iraq was no bigger threat to us than they are. And if they “genuinely” believed in the WMDs they must have had their heads where the sun don’t shine.

*I* knew there were no WMDs…why didn’t they? Sorry, I don’t buy it. They lied us into that pile of crap and they get no forgiveness from me for doing that.

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Paul – I agree with your sentiments. But the connection between our economy and the cost of the war is very real.

I think Obama’s trying to, poorly, tie a narrative together that he wants to invest / build america. He stinks at conveying this relatively simple message though.

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We can certainly thank W and his pals for the current economic disaster that they brought on all of us because of their extremist views regarding “spreading democracy in the Middle East” and not being willing to pay for it! It may take a decade to get America back on its feet again, so no more Repubs in the White House for another decade or more!

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“Bush is more of a hero than Obama is. What branch did Obama serve in again?”

yeah. a guy who blew out his cushy texas reserve slot because he couldn’t keep his nose clean. oh, yeah … that’s “brave”

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Doggone, this is a ridiculous statement and I hope you know it:

“The USSR, Canada, England, France, Israel all have WMDs. Why haven’t we invaded them? Iraq was no bigger threat to us than they are.”

4 of 5 are allies. 1 we fought a war with for 50 years, fortunately no shots were fired.

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USinUK
September 1st, 2010
8:43 am

Still refering back to the Dan Rather “scoop”?

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jm

September 1st, 2010
8:38 am

jm,
Those 50,000 troops could end up being an Iraqi “Alamo”. Sacrificial lambs left for slaughter by invading Iranian armed forces. Do you think that we could get help to them in time? No, but what a political windfall it would be and what a clarion call to resume the fight, but this time with no restrictions.
Sound far fetched? You decide…I’m just supposin’

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leg lamp – “Still refering back to the Dan Rather “scoop”?”

no one disputes what the letter said … no one.

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“Which branch did Obama serve in?”

born in 1961, he hasn’t had to.

but nice try, pea-diddly

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“Would it have been better if no bill had passed at all?”

It would have been better if they had read the bill and knew what the hell was in it before they passed it..that’s for sure…instead of passing it to see what’s in it. It looks more and more like they passed the bill to make private insurance sooo bad that eventually we will beg for the public option.

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Cheney served in my branch too. We’re both executive material.

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Along with Chicken-Hawk Bush, Harvard-Lawyer Obama, Jay Bookman, and the rest of the State-sponsered MSM,

I will pretend that all combat troops are out of Iraq………………………………………IF……………..

the State will allow me to pretend to pay taxes.

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“he hasn’t had to.”

Thanks for proving my point. Bush is more of a hero than Obama.

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It looks more and more like they passed the bill to make private insurance sooo bad that eventually we will beg for the public option.

Well there is certainly no Medicare Advantage to that. I wouldn’t sign such a bill without proof of at least 30 million votes.

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Thanks for proving my point. Bush is more of a hero than Obama.

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!

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Gee Beav, as usual you completely miss the point. (Do you hear that whizzing sound just above your head?) Imagine that?!

The lunatic fringe is acting as if they are some sort of electoral juggernaut. A steamroller of winning elections. So naively confident, that they are counting their chickens before they even hatch.

Yet the irrefutable fact is that they have gotten absolutely *decimated* recently. Horrific and historic losses on a scale never before seen in this country. A smackdown of staggering proportions. The Bush legacy. Though he is some sort of “hero” to the far right wing. (Air sickness bag needed here.)

Ergo, the assertion that the neo-cons can’t keep score at all. And thus the UGA analogy.

Clear?

Clear.

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“B in particular is why 9/11 happened. Lesson learned. Ergo, Iraq invasion”

When did Iraq invade us or attack us in any way? Invading Iraq because of some, mostly, Saudi Arabian extremists was about as useful as it would have been if we’d invaded Jamaica.

Iraq did not attack us. Iraq was not involved in the 911 attack. Iraq was NO DANGER to use whatsoever. We invaded based on lies and from the death of the first person after that invasion we stand convicted as murderers.

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USinUK

September 1st, 2010
8:46 am

You mean these letters? No one disputed them?

The Killian documents were initially claimed by CBS to have come from the “personal files” of the late Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, Bush’s squadron commander during Bush’s Air National Guard service. They describe preferential treatment during Bush’s service, including pressure on Killian to “sugar coat” an annual officer rating report for the then 1st Lt. Bush. CBS aired the story amid more releases of Bush’s official records by the Department of Defense, including one just the day before as the result of a FOIA lawsuit by the Associated Press. The Killian documents were alleged to be fakes, starting with a Free Republic web posting by Harry MacDougald, a conservative Republican lawyer posting under the blogger name, “Buckhead.” MacDougald and multiple fellow bloggers pointed out that the formatting shown in the documents used proportional fonts that did not come into common use until the mid to late 90’s and alleged that the documents were therefore likely forgeries.

The forgery allegations subsequently came to the attention of the mainstream media, especially after experts also questioned the documents’ authenticity and lack of a chain of custody. The original documents have never been submitted for authentication. The man who delivered the copies, Lt. Col. Bill Burkett, a former officer in the Texas Army National Guard and outspoken Bush critic, claimed that he burned the originals. Burkett admitted lying to CBS and USA Today about where he had obtained the papers and eventually expressed doubts of his own about their authenticity.

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I didn’t watch Obama’s address. I was too busy watching paint dry.

paleo-neo-Carlinist said:

I’m tired of you neo-con apologist, revisionist historians behaving like children.

…” so, I have created the kids’ table and I will not allow children to foul or dishonor the healthy give and take of the adult table. ergo, if I have to excuse myself from the grown-up table in order to put Dusty or Grand Forks or I’m here from the government… in his/her place, I am happy to do so,…

^^^ There’s that familiar ring!

DING DONG!!!!!!!!!

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Here’s our biggest foreign policy problem, if anyone wants to get into foreign policy. It ain’t Iraq. It’s China.

If our economic interests with a communist state are not reasonably settled (and I don’t think they can be given the mercantilist and non- free market approach the Chinese take), we are looking at a very disruptive world relationship.

Furthermore, China is building a military to rival ours. Make no mistake, the Chinese haven’t fought a war in a very long time, the have a restless population (in particular if they have a bad recession), and may not perceive the costs of war the same as we do.

They have 1.3 billion people, who are generally considered cheap and treated by the state authorities as tools, not as people. Our military is concerned. America in general is asleep to this threat though. It is a dangerous assumption to make that China sees the costs of a war the same as we do. I hope I don’t live to see this happen, but given my age, it’s entirely possible, even likely.

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“When you start your argument with a lie…it makes the rest pointless to read.”

When Pelosi says, “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”. That implies they didn’t read it. If they had, they would have known what’s in it.

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leg lamp – actually, the toads at PowerLine were the ones who started KerningGate about the documents – the thing that threw up the biggest question about the documents’ authenticity. (funny enough, they questioned it immediately after the story aired – in which the documents were on air for only a couple of seconds … but I’m SURE that there were no dirty tricks going on)

Killian’s secretary said that she had no recollection of typing the documents for him – BUT said that she knew that the information contained in them were an accurate reflection of his opinion.

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Obama: ‘time to turn page’

We will in November.

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Doggone/GA

“The USSR, Canada, England, France, Israel all have WMDs. ”

Someone posted something similar the other day. May want to check on Canada. As far as the others – it’s the nuke component, not chemical or biologicals.

Goldie! Hi!

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However, in May 1972 he sought and gained approval to move to Alabama to work on the U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Party candidate, Winton Blount. While in Alabama Bush was obliged to continue his duties with another National Guard unit. After failing to have an annual physical examination Bush was removed from flight duty on August 1, 1972.

Bush’s military records reveal that he did not do any duty between April 16 and October 28, 1972 and missed training altogether in December 1972 and February and March 1973. There were no records of him having served with any unit in Alabama. It is a requirement of members of the National Guard that they accumulate a minimum of 50 service points in a year. (Each full day of weekend training is worth two points).

On May 2, 1973 one of Bush’s superiors noted that “Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non-flying status with the 187th Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.” However, no records for service in Alabama exist.[2]

Like i said , Leg of Lamp, they are still looking for your hero in Alabama.

They are more likely to find Forrest Gump than your hero.

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“When Pelosi says, “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”. That implies they didn’t read it. If they had, they would have known what’s in it.”

ooooo … you win points for style and grace in taking a quote out of context!!

she wasn’t talking about the people in Congress not reading the bill – she was talking about all the misinformation being spread around to the general public about what’s in the bill –

““But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.”

http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/pressreleases?id=1576

nice try.

epic flail

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legs – no one questions WHAT WAS IN THE DOCUMENTS. like I said – even Killian’s secretary said the contents were accurate, just that she couldn’t recall typing them for him.

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“When Pelosi says, “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”. That implies they didn’t read it.”

I refer you to the dictionary to learn the difference between the words “you” and “we”

And as with most things, it does help if you provide the ENTIRE quote: ““But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.”

http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/pressreleases?id=1576

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and as for your 9:06 – a good journalist and a good producer lost their jobs and their reputations for airing a document that contained the truth …

you do know what they say, don’t you – the best lie is the one close to the truth.

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An estimated 87,000 attend Glen Beck’s rally in D.C.; a volcano erupts after four centuries of inactivity and Paris Hilton’s new mug shot. Betty Nguyen has these stories and more on this week’s episode of “The Feed.”

PROOF CBS can’t count. Try 300,000 plus!

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We can also thank W and his pals for unleashing Iran onto the “democracy” that they spread in the Middle East. The whole world will be thanking W for that!

And hey back, uber-Paul!

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Gee, nothing from JB or CT today on President Obama’s less than stellar speech last night. The White House talking points memo must be late.

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USinUK
September 1st, 2010
9:09 am

“airing a document that contained the truth …”

I’ll repeat for the third and last time, “Burkett admitted lying to CBS and USA Today about where he had obtained the papers and eventually expressed doubts of his own about their authenticity.”

If that meets your definition of “truth” then have at it. Yet according to you, no one questioned it. No one. But people lost their jobs and reputations because of it? How did that happen if no one questioned it. No one.

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Peadawg, I mean this with no disrespect, but if you have never served, or have any direct sustained experience with military personnel, you have no clue about these supposed “heroes”.

Your broad-brushed respect though romanticized and well-intentioned is not realistic.

There are countless non-heroes in uniform. Many never were at any point in their lives., Not before, during or after their service. One of the latest being Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, US Army

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But everyone here knows that I do not throw the first punch in these set-tos. Ever.

Sometimes you have to read several comments before getting your morning fill of BS. Those two sentences would cover a month.

Later y’all

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USinUK

September 1st, 2010
9:06 am

Wow, how convenient and what a memory she has. So the content was accurate (at least according to her) but she didn’t remember typing it? muuuwwwwaaAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That’s almost as good as “I didn’t have sex with that women, Miss Lewinsky”…..

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Why are we running from a terrorist State?

WASHINGTON, Aug. 30, 2010 – Iraqi security forces today arrested two suspected al-Qaida in Iraq criminal associates during joint security operations conducted in east Mosul, Iraq.

Iraqi forces and U.S. advisors searched several buildings for a suspected al-Qaida in Iraq leader allegedly responsible for extorting money from oil-related contractors and oil transportation workers in order to fund terrorist operations against Iraq’s security forces and the Iraqi public.

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“How did that happen if no one questioned it”

to satisfy the dogs that howled for their blood because they DARED question Bush!

no one questioned THE CONTENTS – the origin, yes, the contents, no.

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“Had we sent 200,000 troops immediately, who is to know whether it would have, or would not have still gone on as long as it did. ”

And if we had not been stupid enough to invade in the first place we wouldn’t even need to have this conversation.

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a guy who blew out his cushy texas reserve slot because he couldn’t keep his nose clean. oh, yeah … that’s “brave”

Somewhere, the ghost of Dwight Eisenhower is weeping at the realization that 50 years after his speech, we are still so subservient to the military industrial complex that we don’t consider those who seek elected office, often at personal and financial sacrifice to themselves and their families, to have “served” our nation.

/drive by

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As part of our coverage of Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally Saturday, CBS News commissioned the company AirPhotosLive.com to offer an independent estimate of how many people showed up for the event. AirPhotosLive.com calculated that there were approximately 87,000 people there, plus or minus 9,000 people. It was the only scientific estimate made of the number of people at the rally.

The estimate generated criticism from conservative bloggers as well as from Beck himself, who suggested the rally attracted at least 500,000 people.

And the Minnesota loon kept up her longstanding record of saying the most idiotic things by claiming there were a million people there.

Like I said, cons can’t count.

Otherwise, where is the corroboration for their absurd estimates?

Chirp, chirp…

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jm

September 1st, 2010
9:18 am

Are you refering to Krugman or Obama?

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Doggone – “wouldn’t even need to have this conversation” – yes.

But instead we’d be having a different one.

Remember the topics? What’s happening to the millions of starving Iraqis because of the sanctions? does Saddam still have WMD’s? who will take over when he’s gone? another bad or worse minion? how many kurds are being killed and gassed?

Or, it could be worse. In the intervening years, saddam might have invaded S.A. (where will we get our rotten oil?), he could’ve nuked Israel starting a giant middle east war if we had backed off sanctions.

You’re right, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, we would still be having a bad one and we might be having a far worse one.

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jm @ 9:16

I understand you point. But I don’t appreciate Jay tearin’ into Bush and then say, “but, hey, I’m not trying to tear into him or anything.” That’s exactly what he’s trying to do and he just couldn’t wait for this day to come because it gave him a reason to criticize Bush, yet again. Pretty weak.

As far as what Bush “could have done,” yeah, he could have done things differently.

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Nice Guy – and I understand your point as well. Fair enough.

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AmVet – Like I said, cons can’t count.

Fine, but then Libs can’t see. That whole Pelosi and crew being spat upon thing. Never happened. Completely made up.

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USinUK

CBS gave up under pressure and refused to print a story that cast Bush in a bad light?

I can give a lot of theories the benefit of the doubt, but this is a bit much.

I know I sound like I’m on replay, but there seems to be an awful lot of revisionist history by people who lived through it, or ignorance by people who didn’t, of what it was like during Vietnam.

- Poor schmucks with no opportunities got drafted.

- To avoid combat and the draft, people at risk of being drafted joined the Air Force or the Navy.

- Those with means went to college and got a deferment.

- Others who wanted to avoid combat went into the National Guard (hardly any Guard units went to VietNam. When they did, and someone got killed, it was big news). Those with family connections got the plum jobs in the Guard.

So enough about the “he avoided combat by going in the Guard” nonsense, okay? The entire objective of most nearly every young man during Vietnam was to avoid the draft first, and second, to avoid any military service that involved combat!!!

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USinUK
September 1st, 2010
9:25 am

Oh, okay, so your entire argument is based on him not going for a physical for 2 years. Done. I tend not to speculate but you seem to be willing to do so. So what do you “speculate” that means? Since we’re going for facts here, and not speculation, let me offer this fact (again)

“On October 1, 1973, Bush was honorably discharged from the Texas Air National Guard and transferred to the inactive reserves in Denver, Colorado. He was discharged from the Air Force Reserve on November 21, 1974 thus completing his service to the guard.

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Paul – I refer you to Peadawg’s taunts about Obama serving so you’ll understand why Bush’s service still is brought up. The “hero of TANG” doesn’t exist, but as long as he is portrayed as such, it WILL be criticized.

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Doggone – your philosophy is being tried in China. To possibly disasterous effect. We’ll see. That’s like funding your enemy, generally a non-sensical strategy.

Sanctions are better than nothing. They work only about 1/4 as well as some like to think though. The alternative is worse, however.

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“Doggone – your philosophy is being tried in China”

We’re flooding China with consuemer goods? That’s news to me. And here all this time I thought one of our economic troubles had to do with the huge disparity in how much WE get from THEM, as compared to how little they get from us. Guess I learned something new. Have you told the economists yet?

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Doggone, Worse – we’re just sending them money instead. Trade cuts both ways. You can’t generally ship goods to a country but not buy them. Although China has set the game up in its favor pretty well.

Every “made in china” product you buy is funding their military and the sale of our US Treasury bonds to them.

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The invasion of Iraq was not a triumph of the Bush years, it was his greatest single mistake and probably the single greatest foreign-policy blunder in U.S. history……..VERY WELL SAID Jay

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Leg Lamp

Sorry. Didn’t intentionally use AmVet’s nickname for you – it’s just burrowed into my subconscious…

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“Doggone, Worse – we’re just sending them money instead. Trade cuts both ways.”

But I wasn’t referring to trade when I said “flood” them with consumer goods. I’m talking about something far more direct: like dropping crates of goods all over the country. Get those goods DIRECTLY into the hands of the citizens, and then if THEIR government confiscates them their ire will be directed against their own government and not us. All sanctions do is hurt the people LEAST able to effect a change in policy. They don’t touch the people actually in charge, and they give THOSE people a talking point to rile up the ones actually being affected.

MY idea would turn that on it’s head.

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Though generally cryptic to he point of being obtuse, I’m not sure that substance-free third 9:20 even makes any sense. Oh well…

Nice Guy, nice try. Bur not so.

If you refer to the Cong. Lewis incident, it is inconclusive. I watched that video repeatedly. The enraged screamer put both hands up to the side of his mouth and as Lewis passed him, the Cong, pulled back as some of the spittle *apparently* landed on him. Whether it was accidental or not, no one other than the two men involved knows for sure. But it is not anywhere outside of the realm of possibility, that he was actually spit upon.

And Lewis is widely recognized as a man of class, bravery and honor.

Unlike the fabricated and preposterous over-stated claims of the crowd size. Which is obviously mere claptrap proffered by know serial liars – Beck and Bachmann…

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“Thank. I think “hero” is a bit much. He was just another guy caught up in the maelstrom of Vietnam”

Of course it is…tell that to the people who actually portray him that way. Start with Peadawg.

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G.W.

September 1st, 2010
9:34 am

If you believe CBS’s estimate of 87,000 at the Beck rally, then I’d like to refer you to a riveting piece of journalism done by Dan Rather (yes, the CBS Dan Rather) a few years back about George W. Bush and his national guard service. I’m sure you’ll devour every word.

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Doggone – not going to work… the world’s a rough and tumble place. You’d just be freeing up money for them to spend on military goods as well.

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AmVet

September 1st, 2010
9:40 am

Oh my gosh. Now I’ve heard it all. Your detailed description and analysis of the “spittle” film reminds me of that hilarious Seinfeld episode where Newman and Kramer are describing the “second spitter” theory and Jerry dissects their assertions. Are you sure you don’t have these two incidents confused?

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Bush, either you love him or hate him, there is no in between. According to polling, georgia is the state most in love with that guy. Well, at least florida went for obama after the 2000 fiasco. We also have a very good chance of getting a democratic governor, so there is hope.

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Leg Lamp,

Let us not dwell in the past. After all, it is hard to remember much from the good old days. Just say whatever makes you feel good and remember that the truth is what you need it to be in order to make the sale. That’s all you need to remember in order to make it through life as a successful Republican, as long as your daddy is there to bail you out. hehehe

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USinUK – Doggone/GA

Peadawg reads these posts. Point was made.

I think it’s not just Peadawg – ‘hero’ is badly overused to the point of referring to nearly every person who signed on to do a job. Commendable? Sure? Worthy of honor and respect? Of course. But ‘heroic’? ‘Performance, risk and sacrifice markedly above that demonstrated by one’s peers’? Hardly. And it’s a shame as it, in some ways, can serve to diminish the recognition due those few who really are heroic.

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I am a hero and Texas history books will prove it.

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Paul – 9:49 – well said. the bar has been dropped so low as to make the word meaningless.

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my mister likes a sammich named Hero.

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clarification – “We’ll never know what was in GW’s head for sure”

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“No amount of inspections would have been ultimately satisfactory.”

The inspectors said there were no WMDs…no WMDs have ever been found. It satisfies ME that there are no WMDs.

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John Cusack Calls for ‘Satanic Death’ of FOXNEWS, GOP Leaders…

Ah yes, the level headed eloquence of a liberal.

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Normal

And Hiro was a character on Heroes. When he got to NY, he developed an affinity for their sandwiches…. heroes!

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You can’t make a hero sandwich with Bush meat.

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paleo – i don’t agree. They sold the war based on WMD’s that turned out not to exist. Of course, after the WMD’s failed to materialize, they revised and layered on other reasons (that they probably had before, but didn’t present in public as far as the UN and US public goes).

I think the US is a much more ethical actor in the world than the rest. That said, we’re far from perfect (Iran-contra, slavery, CIA assassinations, etc etc)

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The mutual fund managers must be back from their summer vacation.

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Swede – History is helpful, not “infinitely helpful.” It is highly over-rated when trying to determine a future course.

History would have said Russia was still part of the USSR, until it wasn’t. Greece wasn’t going to default on its debt until it pretty much did / was going to without an EU bailout. Politics, social progress, and economics are anything but a “science.”

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jm, the “pitch” to America was never the issue. 9/11, WMDs, liberating Iraq; take your pick. Bush has been dialed in on Iraq since before he was elected. Frontline or some PBS documentary on the war has a disturbing interview with Bush in November 1998 or 1999 (he may have not even officially declared). he opined about what he would if if Saddam “got out of line” (paraphrase). the war was always about oil and the Bush (and Cheney) ties to Big Oil and the Saudis. but let’s say you or I are in Bush’s shoes; are you going to tell Americans; “I plan to initiate a $1 trillion war, which will kill 4,000 Americans and injure tens of thousands more. I plan to do this for private reasons, and only a handful of my close friends and business partners will benefit. not only will I use taxpayer funds to pay for this, but I will borrow from China.” OR, he can say, “Saddam has WMDs, Saddam helped plan 9/11, Saddam needs to be taken out of power for the greater good.” let’s be honest, if the “intelligence was flawed” why did he not wait until he got accurate (actionable) intel? his political benefactors wanted a war and he did what he was told to do. in many was, he was “just following orders” (as dim-witted rich kids usually do). in my opinion, there are no “ethical actors” on the world stage. this doesn’t make us better or worse than anyone and the idea that we haves some sort of ethical or moral foundation for our behavior is no different than when some guy blows himself up in a market or hijacks an airliner and flies it into a building. people wrap themselves in flags or holy documents (including the Constiturion) and the end up “doing the bidding” to which Goering referred. Hitler preached of the fatherland, the UK sent soliders to die for “God and Country”. Bush warned of WMDs because some pollster (or Karl Rove) told him it was the best pitch. agaim, the Frontline piece presents (not suggests, presents) the “reverse engineering” approach Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al took to 9/11. within hours of the attacks, the Bush adm tried to establish a (no-existent) link between Iraq and al Qeada. There is a sobering clip of the “brain trust” in the Camp David war room and Cheney is DEMANDING all intel focus on Iraq. not exactly ‘ethical’ in my book.

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Doggone/GA @8:55am..YES we are murderers!! And how does this nation deal with murderers ? Why are we dragging our feet on this one?

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[...] bomb detection dogs, and the ability to rely on a …Turning the pageWashington Post (blog)Recasting Bush as the hero of Iraq is taking things much too farAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 9,519 news [...]

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