Recasting Bush as the hero of Iraq is taking things much too far
I see that Fox News and top Republicans such as Mitch McConnell are insisting that President Obama credit his predecessor, President George W. Bush, for making possible tonight’s announcement that U.S. troops are no longer engaged in combat in Iraq.
I suppose that’s true, they have a point. You could certainly argue, for example, that if Bush hadn’t committed us to that misbegotten war in the first place, President Obama wouldn’t be making tonight’s speech.
In fact, if Bush hadn’t decided to try to occupy Iraq with far fewer troops than were necessary, ignoring advice from top generals that several hundred thousand soldiers would be needed to do the job right, we might have been able to bring our role to a conclusion years ago instead of now. So they’re right in that sense as well.
And if Bush had understood the nature of the conflict much earlier — if he hadn’t stood in front of that “Mission Accomplished” banner on May 1, 2003 and proclaimed that major combat had ended in Iraq, at a point when just 172 U.S. soldiers had been killed out of an eventual 4,000 — yeah, maybe Obama wouldn’t have to be announcing the ACTUAL end of major combat for U.S. forces on an August night more than seven years later.
If Bush hadn’t stubbornly, blindly insisted year after year that the war was going well, that there was no civil war, that the incompetent Donald Rumsfeld was a great defense secretary, that no change of strategy was necessary because the original strategy was so brilliant — if he hadn’t refused to acknowledge reality until after the 2006 midterms forced him to do so — yeah, maybe Bush himself would have been able to make this speech while he was still president.
But that didn’t happen. For years, Bush tried to halfway it, refusing to commit fully but refusing to withdraw either.
“Some Americans ask me, if completing the mission is so important, why don’t you send more troops?” Bush said in a typical speech in 2005. “If our commanders on the ground say we need more troops, I will send them. But our commanders tell me they have the number of troops they need to do their job. Sending more Americans would undermine our strategy of encouraging Iraqis to take the lead in this fight.”
Look, I’m not trying to dredge up ancient disputes here, and I’m not looking for another chance to bash the ex-president. He has left office, and history will now reach its own verdict on his leadership and judgment. I’m fine with that. I will also acknowledge, as I have in the past, that the 2007 surge and the change in military leadership that Bush finally implemented were more successful in rebuilding security than I and many others, including Barack Obama, had expected at the time. As I also noted earlier today, Obama doesn’t deserve a huge amount of credit for this withdrawal process, because he has merely followed the timeline set by Bush.
For that and many other reasons, it was perfectly appropriate for Obama to call Bush today as a matter of courtesy, and I hope and expect that the president will treat his predecessor with grace in tonight’s remarks.
All that said, however, it is also impossible to sit silently by while the Republicans try to rewrite a history that remains so fresh in so many minds. The invasion of Iraq was not a triumph of the Bush years, it was his greatest single mistake and probably the single greatest foreign-policy blunder in U.S. history.
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446 comments Add your comment
landry
August 31st, 2010
10:04 pm
Repubs always get a hard-on about war, seems a odd brew from people who proclaim to be Christian….
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:05 pm
Well, President Obama’s speech was very nice. Thanking the troops was excellent. If he could govern aw well as he can speak, he wouldn’t be at the bottom of the approval polls. Unfortunately, the art of eloquence is his only attribute. His speech writers are OK. His policy makers are pathetic. What a shame!!
Scout
August 31st, 2010
10:07 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe :
Exactly and even more so in this case since they are regulare combat brigades with llBravo’s (infanty). Plus thei armor and artillery and combat aviation brigades.
It doublespeak at its best and very distasteful.
They can be turned into combat brigades again with one 2 second order. That’s why they are there. To protect other support units and civilians if things bread bad.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
10:08 pm
Dusty:
And his views on what America should be are dangerous, unpatriotic, divisive and shameful.
Atlantan
August 31st, 2010
10:08 pm
I get it he is against the surge…
landry
August 31st, 2010
10:08 pm
Conscientious objectors are the real heroes, war is a canard, never was about god or country, all about greed and avarice, wrapped in a lie to dupe simpletons to fight for the oligarchy……
Atlantan
August 31st, 2010
10:10 pm
I hope Mr. President had a nice vacation – did any MSM member care to ask him about the job front? At what point will the MSM show just a little integrity?
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
10:14 pm
Buck, I’m gonna have to call B.S. on your list (and I hope and pray – as much as agnostics pray – you are not ranking these FP blunders)
1. The Treaty of Versailles – much like most “foreign policy” of the time, it was not a “blunder” so much as halftime between wars. and #1? only if you were a Nazi, and the list was “reasons we need to start another war”.
2. The Creek War and the Trail of Tears – pretty sure this was “domestic policy”. I mean, we’ve established that once the Republic was formed, our issue with indigneous Americans were a domestic issue, unless of course you are of Creek or Cherokee lineage, in which case, dealing in good faith with white settlers was the ULTIMATE “foreign policy blunder”. Buck are you Creek or Cherokee?
3. Allowing the rise of a nuclear Iran – excuse me, you must be Jewish. Iran is Saddam with more sophistication. To this day, the United State is the ONLY NATION to every use nuclear weapons against another nation. it will suck is Iran uses one, or sells one, but until they have not committed an act of war. consider this; Iran loves the attention. they like bowing up to “the great Satan”. when I was a jock we used to say; idle chatter don’t matter.” if Iran “going nuclear” is a FP blunder, what does this say about Truman’s decision in August (acutually July) 1945?
4. Forming an alliance with the Soviet Union – I must have been sleeping during the Cold War? Are you talking about WWII? The USSR suffered 25 million killed and took a fair amount of starch out of Hitler and the Nazis. unless you are dovetailing this with #1 (Versailles) I have not idea what you’re talking about. OH, and the USSR, like Luca Brasi, sleeps with the fishes. this was only a blunder if they died owing us money.
5. Allowing the Rosenbergs and others to steal nuclear secrets
Again, my good friend, this was domestic policy. The Rosenberg were American citizens, working in Federally funded labs. If security was lax, this was a domestic (DoD) issue and not a foreign poicy (Department of State) issue.
6. Mis-handling of the Iranian revolution by Jimmy Carter
I love this one. The Iranian revolution was put in motion in the 50’s (CIA). in fact the 1979 dust-up was something of a counter-revolution or counter-coup. or, are you referring to “Desert 1″? Carter gave the greenlight. whether human error or equipment failure, he authorized the rescue.
7. The Bay of Pigs – again, CIA plan, and at the last minute they wanted air support, which changes the dynamic from covert CIA opertion to act of war (invasion).
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:17 pm
Hmmm, I seem to remember Wolfowitz saying the war would pay for itself.
Basically the Iraq war makes the stimulus look like a major success.
Mick
August 31st, 2010
10:20 pm
scout
**And his views on what America should be are dangerous, unpatriotic, divisive and shameful.**
Relax, he will be out of office one day and we will go on. Now do you know how so many felt about his predecessor? Your above statement could easily have been attributed to bush. Try catching the rerun of rachel maddow – she completely nails it with facts, something an investigator should appreciate.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:21 pm
I can’t help but wonder what Bookman would have done if he’d been president when 9/11 took place. Form a committee? Organize a community? Take a vacation?
all three are better than what Bush did.
which was hide behind him mommy’s skirts.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:22 pm
The Iraq war is the supreme example of how dangerous the politics of fear can be.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:22 pm
Word Mick.
Think he has gotten over his vapors yet?
Barack Obama on the end of US combat missions in Iraq – live | Daily Tribune
August 31st, 2010
10:23 pm
[...] ET: The Republicans are going full-bore for the “credit Bush” approach on Iraq, but blogger Jay Bookman at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has a different [...]
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:25 pm
Hootinanny Yum Yum
August 31st, 2010
6:37 pm
Bush did it!
Where were you Hoot? Who else started this b.s. war? Based on lie after lie, after lie?
You conservatives are childlike in your thought processes.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:26 pm
Obama treated Bush with dignity and respect tonight. Anybody here foolish enough to think the R’s will do the same to him? Not a chance.
Mick
August 31st, 2010
10:28 pm
Give bush credit, for a mistake? You guys on the other side have lost your marbles. Saddam was boxed in, iran was in check, and osama was in AFGHANISTAN. We went off the reservation and over the cliff and nothing has been the same since.
AmVet
August 31st, 2010
10:28 pm
Neo-con boys and bush chickenhawks playing soldier.
And it cost the nation 6,787 American lives. And counting.
Their kids should be among them…
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:30 pm
Give bush credit, for a mistake? You guys on the other side have lost your marbles. Saddam was boxed in, iran was in check, and osama was in AFGHANISTAN. We went off the reservation and over the cliff and nothing has been the same since
and ruined our economy to boot!!
which is something else these idiots are trying to lay at Obama’s door.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:30 pm
Murkowski has conceded in Alaska.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
10:32 pm
Don’t forget… the politics of fear are not dangerous. ignorant, deim-witted, directionless Americans; who bow and cower in the presence of “the great and poweful Oz” (superstitions; both theological and political) is the greatest danger. my lord and savior (George Carlin) said “power does what it wants” and China’s lord and savior (Mas Tse Tung) said; “power comes from the barrel of a gun.” FEAR is only an asset when presented to ignorant lemmings. OH, and @@l I got sanctioned on KW’s blog for refusing to tolerate Grand Forks’ infantile petulant behavior. he sent him the the kids’ table and advised him to perform a certain sexual act on Sean Hannity (whom is is full-time resident of the kids’ table). I’m tired of you neo-con apologist, revisionist historians behaving like children. bring something to the table or throw you peas at the other kids. you are an embarassment to the conservative cause.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:35 pm
Paleo @ 10:32 — thank you.
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:36 pm
OH my, here comes the parade. Mick, Landry, Midori, Neo carboy and Don’t Forget…All of em so unhappy because the war in Iraq takes a step toward the exit.
What this lib crowd wanted ws a total defeat so they could say ONCE MORE..Bush did it!
IN the meantime, their exalted leader follows the plans made by Bush!! Uh OH!! LIbs hate Bush & love Obama but Obama is following Bush’s plan in the MidEast!! What a dilemma! Who is right?? Who is wrong?
Why don’t you just relax and support the troops instead of trying to make the USA and Bush look bad?
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:36 pm
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:30 pm
Murkowski has conceded in Alaska.
And apparently Joe Miller thinks that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional.
“You have also taken some fairly controversial — some would say very extreme — positions,” CBS’ Bob Schieffer told Miller Sunday. “First you say you want to phase out Medicare. You want to privatize Social Security. I have to say there are a lot of people in Alaska who are on Medicare and are getting Social Security. Isn’t that position going to be a problem for you in the election, in this general election?” asked Schieffer.
“I would suggest to you that if one thinks that the Constitution is extreme then you would also think that the founders are extreme,” answered Miller.
Kamchak
August 31st, 2010
10:37 pm
and ruined our economy to boot!!
I’ll grant that Bushie-poo stepped on the gas, but we have been pointed towards the cliff since the trickle-on alchemists took over and started trying to turn lead into gold.
It was only a matter of time until we could borrow no more to keep the economy going.
Turning our homes into ATMs was the final straw.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:40 pm
Dusty,
“What this lib crowd wanted ws a total defeat so they could say ONCE MORE..Bush did it!”
You could not be more wrong! I have never desired American failure in any respect no matter who was president. And don’t forget it was conservatives that said they wanted “Obama to fail”.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:40 pm
go hop on your broom, Dusty.
Don’t forget – gonna be mighty interesting up North, isn’t it?
Hiya Kammie. Of course you’re correct. Been a long time coming. But putting that disgusting war on a credit card pretty much pushed us over.
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:42 pm
AmVet.
Were you a chickenhawk when you were in the service? Tell us about WWII. That was yours, wasn’t it? Funny how people who support the military make you very indignant? Are you ashamed of being a vet or something?
Kamchak
August 31st, 2010
10:42 pm
But putting that disgusting war on a credit card pretty much pushed us over
Well…there is that.
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:42 pm
and Bush DID do it, Dusty.
The Human Race will NEVER forget what he did to the Iraqi people.
And don’t give me that crap about freeing them. He freed them from their lives and dignity, if anything.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
10:51 pm
Midori
August 31st, 2010
10:40 pm
Don’t forget – gonna be mighty interesting up North, isn’t it?
Given the demographics of the tea party, it could be a classic example of “careful what you wish for”.
Amazing that so many of them are pulling out the “privatize social security” issue again. It was unpopular when Bush proposed it and that was BEFORE the market crash. Hell, people are pulling their money out of the market NOW. What on earth makes them think that this idea will fly any better now?
Kamchak
August 31st, 2010
10:51 pm
paleo-neo-Carlinist
When I was new here, Granny Godzilla informed me of Dilbert’s law #14:
“Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:52 pm
Oh and here come “Kammie” with his big talk about “poo”. That makes him such a big boy..
Midori, I don’t work with a broom . I”m not in the cleaning business like you. Up North? ??????
Don’t Forget, you surely did fool me. You don’t sound like you are giving any rah rahs for this country. Must be the crowd you run with. Would you like to tell me exactly who said they wanted Obama to fail? ????
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
10:55 pm
Kamchack, Midori, and any sane conservatives; consider this. I think Soothsayer’s post (cited as “nailed it” by Kam) says it all. the “debt-fueled spending” started by Ronald “deficits don’t matter” Reagan was the first crack in the dike. I would argue that the recession and the housing bubble/collapse really don’t have much to do with George Bush (though the Paulson/Goldman Sachs conflict of interest/TARP mess certainly does). so, to that extent, Bush was just being a POTUS, trading in patronage and cronyism. But Iraq was far more “private”. Iraq, and the oil mess is the Bush “family business” and Bush was PUT IN OFFICE to wage war; period. to that extent, he is no different than Lyndon Johnson (was it Mako who opined about the “JFK/Dallas” moment?). the banks, including the Federal Reserve created the bubble, inflated it, and profited from it’s collapse. the fact that the “bubble” was concurrent with Bush’s crusade was just kinda one of those imperfect storms as far as working Americans go. so let’s be fair; the banks own ALL POTUSs. Steagal -Glass was repealed and the derivitives mess goes back to Clinton. Iraq is Bush’s and Bush’s alone, and he doesn’t care because he and his crowd “got paid” (just as the banks got paid in 2008)
RW-(the original)
August 31st, 2010
10:58 pm
Obama treated Bush with dignity and respect tonight.
DF,
It did sound fairly respectful at first, but as it went on he was only respectful of the troops since he left out the part where he followed the plan Bush left him. What it ended up sounding like was that he knew they could disagree but Obama could claim victory while Bush had supposedly only disagreed with the Obama “plan” although he did acknowledge that Bush loved the troops that Obama “lead” to victory.
I’ll try to read it back sometime and see if I need to modify my take on it.
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:58 pm
Kamchak,
Granny always says that when she looks in a mirror and sees ….. an idiot.
MIdori,
I believe you have said you were in the military. Did you lose sleep over the people you were trained to kill or did you consider it part of your duty as protector of the USA? Bush was doing his duty as protector of the USA. I think he made the best choice when I consider the alternative.
Mick
August 31st, 2010
11:01 pm
Dusty
Support the troops? I’m a vet and supported the troops by not wanting them to be blown to pieces in war of choice by a reckless president. I don’t hate bush, I just rue the day the supremes selected him. Obama is in a lose, lose situation and I don’t think he has lived up to his potential My nephew just enlisted in the army and I’m damn proud of his decision. Those who stand up to defend this country hopefully will have the leadership of elected statesmen to not send them to war without proper cause. In that iraq decision – bush failed.
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:01 pm
Answer the question AMVET? Are you ashamed of being a veteran or you just like to complain about everybody and everything?
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:02 pm
bush and his lackey’s (mcchrystal) have pat tillman’s blood on their hands, reap the whirlwind, enjoy hell….
kayaker 71
August 31st, 2010
11:03 pm
Am Wet,
Enlighten Dusty and I on your patriotic contribution to the defense of this country. We are all anxiously awaiting your latest revelation, big words and all.
RW-(the original)
August 31st, 2010
11:03 pm
Now the one part of the speech that had me in stitches was when he said we were in poor financial shape because we spent a trillion dollars on these wars over the last ten years. He spent an extra trillion dollars in his first month in office and all we got for that was a few million signs that said projects that had been in the works for years were funded by his Porkulus slush fund.
RW-(the original)
August 31st, 2010
11:06 pm
A despicable lout of a woman.
Not even in the least. Dusty is a darling of decorum and a fine voice for the greatness this country can be.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:08 pm
landry:
This has your name written all over it ………………
“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ … If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
Samuel Adams
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:09 pm
Mick:
Nope. “El Jefe” has done immeasurable harm already.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
Kamchack, thanks. seriously. this stuff is a hobby for me. I’ve “met” some pretty cool people (used to be a bartender, and enjoyed the same vibe, but since I didn’t own the bar, I had to; as St. Dalton the Cooler said; “be nice”). I don’t have to be “nice” here. in fact, I find it liberating that I can (George Bailey) tell people “what I really think.” Dusty and Grand Forks and the rest are turds in a punch bowl. they’re 800 lbs. gorillas. as I said, when I was slinging drinks, I embraced “the customer is always right” and in my current gig, I talk business and not politics. but I am a parent, and when my kid acts up I do nor defer to the “first amendment” or “equal rights”. I say; “when you’re 18 you can do and say what you want. this is not a democracy.” so, I have created the kids’ table and I will not allow children to foul or dishonor the healthy give and take of the adult table. ergo, if I have to excuse myself from the grown-up table in order to put Dusty or Grand Forks or I’m here from the government… in his/her place, I am happy to do so, just as I respect those who choose to ignore them. I am not at the point where I can ignore them, because as I said, I have to “ignore” a**holes in my reall life. and not everyone who does not agree with me is an a**hole in my book. ’nuff said.
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
Neo..
You are just on a windy wild goose chase. There was no war or terrorist attack on the USA when Bush was elected. Americans voted for him because they liked his good record as governor of Texas, his service in the military, his good education which included an MBA, his attractive wife, and his honest and unassuming manner.
He was elected even as Democrats used every dirty trick they could concoct against him.. But Americans wisely chose him over Gore. What a good move!! Gore would have been a disaster. Americans can usually spot a phony. I said USUALLY..but they did not miss with Bush.
Mick
August 31st, 2010
11:12 pm
rw
Porkulus? At least the money is being spent in this country as opposed to over there and you think thats funny?
scout
Not even close to what bush has unleashed.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:14 pm
Dusty:
I think Midori was a Navy SEAL . Or more precisely for the women a Navy Cow (a female seal).
Iraq by the numbers : The Reid Report
August 31st, 2010
11:14 pm
[...] tried in vain to recast George Bush as the Great Hero of the Tigris on Tuesday. Too bad only Fox News viewers will believe [...]
popeye
August 31st, 2010
11:16 pm
“Bush was doing his duty as protector of the USA. I think he made the best choice when I consider the alternative”.
Dusty, and exactly what was Bush protecting “us” against?
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:16 pm
Paleo Neo,
You can stop patting yourself on the back. When did you start doing that ? When you were a bartender? Quite an education. Do keep telling us how clever you are. But make it a little shorter, please. Too long gets a bit boring.
Mick
August 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
**But Americans wisely chose him over Gore. What a good move!! Gore would have been a disaster. Americans can usually spot a phony. I said USUALLY..but they did not miss with Bush.**
Then we had 911, who ignored the warnings? Who left afghanistan for iraq? Who was sitting in the oval office when the economy collapsed? Thanks but no thanks. Gore got more votes and if you want an honest man to look up to how’s about jimmy carter and his wife, now thats some real folk not some prefab rich kid born on third base.
getalife
August 31st, 2010
11:17 pm
A President actually keeping his promise to end the occupation is great news.
Thank you President Obama and keep cleaning up the cons mess.
Welcome home troops.
harvey
August 31st, 2010
11:18 pm
This whole think was done because Obama was being pressured by Dem Congressman to try to up his popularity. They are desparate. He makes me gag.
harvey
August 31st, 2010
11:20 pm
Actually since we still have troops in Germany, I am from Missouri, and seeing is believing. When we have no troops in Iraq I will be very surprised–but don’t expect to see that happen. This is an entirely politically bs speech. After the election he will come up with some excuse as to why we can’t pull out.
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:20 pm
War settles nothing.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.” -Thomas Jefferson
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” -James Madison
“I had other priorities”- eight deferment dick
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
11:25 pm
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
10:52 pm
Don’t Forget, you surely did fool me. You don’t sound like you are giving any rah rahs for this country. Must be the crowd you run with. Would you like to tell me exactly who said they wanted Obama to fail? ????
Dusty, I didn’t start posting here until this year. How can you say I wanted Bush to fail? And where have I ever put our country down? Oh wait, now I get it. Conservatives are the only “real Americans” so when I disagree with them I must hate America.
As to your second question:
Limbaugh: “The dirty little secret … is that every Republican in this country wants Obama to fail, but none of them have the guts to say so; I am willing to say it”
Does anybody doubt that Rush has his finger on the pulse of the Republican party? Hell, no one in the party has disagreed with him on anything I know of, or at least had the courage to do it publicly.
Conservative media figures have celebrated the International Olympic Committee’s elimination of Chicago’s bid to host the 2016 Summer Olympics and used the event to bash President Obama, who flew to Copenhagen to lobby IOC members on behalf of Chicago’s bid. For instance, Glenn Beck called the news that Chicago’s bid had failed “so sweet,” Rush Limbaugh declared himself “happy” and “gleeful” with the results, and Matt Drudge proclaimed: “World rejects Obama.”
Beck: “Oh, it’s so sweet” that Chicago’s bid failed; “savor this moment.”
Breitbart website: “It is kind of like the world community saying to President Obama, ‘Not only no, but Hell No.’ ”
Pretty pathetic that these guys are pulling AGAINST America, IMO. And if conservative voters don’t agree with them, then why do they have such a large following?
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:25 pm
Popeye,
Bush was protecting us against enemies who wanted to kill us and they got off to a quick start with three thousand. Now think hard. Remember those bad people??? Nope, not Pearl Harbor. Nope, not the Alamo. Ahhh 9/11!! You got it. Very good. Tomorrow we will have another history lesson.
Brett
August 31st, 2010
11:27 pm
That ignorant, alcoholic, cowardly SOB. Left a bloodied world. A quivering lump of historic failure. Toxic. An administration that forsaw events leading to 2 predictably failed “wars,” a heath-care system collapse, & the gluttonous raping of the U.S. Treasury. He/they all should be hanged by the neck until dead – and all of it televised world-wide. All of them are/were filled with the highest levels of dishonor – as are the ill-bred imbeciles who voted for them.
getalife
August 31st, 2010
11:29 pm
w was a disaster but Obama covered up his crimes and moved the country forward.
Next July , Afghanistan will be over too and we are back to the good old days of Clinton peace and prosperity.
RW-(the original)
August 31st, 2010
11:29 pm
Mick,
I said nothing about funny, but if you think all the money allocated to the wars is being spent outside the country you’re off your rocker. Porkulus funds being used to cover projects already funded only play a shell game that keeps unneeded government staffers working.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:30 pm
“Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier, or not having been at sea.”
Samuel Johnson
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:30 pm
“Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower
“The bombs in Vietnam explode at home; they destroy the hopes and possibilities for a decent America.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world today is my own government.” -Martin Luther King, Jr.
“All forms of violence, especially war, are totally unacceptable as means to settle disputes between and among nations, groups and persons.” -The Dalai Lama
War is the greatest plague that can affect humanity; it destroys religion, it destroys states, it destroys families. Any scourge is preferable to it.” -Martin Luther
“Bring it on.”
George W. Bush
popeye
August 31st, 2010
11:31 pm
Dusty… I call Bullsh*t on your 11:25! Perhaps it is you who needs that history lesson?
Name one Iraqi on board any of the aircraft on 9/11…Oh! you can’t. Didn’t think so!
Kamchak
August 31st, 2010
11:32 pm
A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:34 pm
“When civilized man can no longer stand the horror of war and refuses to fight, then he will surely be killed or enslaved by the uncivilized who can.”
Author Unknown
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
11:35 pm
Dusty,
since you present an adult argument, I will respond in kind:
You are just on a windy wild goose chase. There was no war or terrorist attack on the USA when Bush was elected.
you arre correct (about the war, not the goose chase). there was, however a NSC memo dated August (?) 2001, which read; “bin Laden determined to strike US.” forget about Clinton missing his shot, bin Laden was still on the radar, and Bush IGNORED HIM (because Iraq was a bigger blip on Bush’s radar).
Americans voted for him because they liked his good record as governor of Texas, his service in the military, his good education which included an MBA, his attractive wife, and his honest and unassuming manner.
Excuse my Kamchack moment… better yet, I’ll speak like a lawyer (you ever been in court?); your testimony is hearsay. How can you possible know why other Americans voted for Geoge Bush (especially the ones who voted for Al Gore, but ended up in the “hanging chad” pile). to wit; SOME AMERICANS voted for George Bush… because they voted for Al Gore. I’ll let you digest that one.
“military record”? Oh, you mean like Dan “National Guard” Quayle’s? and isn’t it ironic that Quayle and Bush hid in the National Guard during Vietnam, but they sent National Guard and Reserve troops to die in Iraq and Afghanistan. OH, and what do John Kerry (2004) and Al Gore (2000) have that W (and certainly not “5 deferment/other priorities” Cheney have? The Vietnam Service ribbon (both were “in country”).
He was elected even as Democrats used every dirty trick they could concoct against him.
No, he was “elected” (fair or unfair). You need to Google Karl Rove and dirty tricks (see: John McCain 2000 campaign).
But Americans wisely chose him over Gore. What a good move!!
I didn’t vote for him (or Gore, or Kerry, or Obama). What a move? That’s like saying “What a move” to Hitler when he nixed the non-aggression treaty with the USSR and invaded Russia.
Gore would have been a disaster. Your clairvoyance is noted, but I can tell you, without hesitation, BUSH WAS A DISASTER (no would, should, could). Most scholaras (liberal, conservative and independent cite Iraq as the worst U.S foreign policy blunder in history. THE WORST. So, you want to rank W ahead of Millard Filmore, I really can’t (won’t) waste time doing research. Bush waged a war on admitted “bad intelligence” and a “hunch”. I don’t think ANY president has ever been so foolish.
Americans can usually spot a phony. I said USUALLY..but they did not miss with Bush.
Again, excuse the Kamchack moment, but you don’t speak for Americans. if you can spot a “phony” and find Bush to be authentic, I am happy for you (but in the words of John Lennon; “…how do you sleep?”). Bush wasn’t a phony in my book. In my book he was a the real deal; a dumb, maliable puppet who was not capable of independent thought, critical analysis or leadership. he was a shallow coward.
And I am not issuing Obama a hall pass or a Mulligan. in fact, I think he is something of a phony (as was Clinton), but I think both Obama and Clinton appreciate the the function of the Office of the Presidency and governed to the best of their abilities. As I said, the jury is still out on Obama, and if you want to throw tomatoes at him for healthcare reform, AfPak surge and the toothless banking bill, I will be happy to give you access to my garden, but this delusional love fest and revisionist (Fox News) veneration of Bush is laughable. Good night.
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Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:36 pm
“While we are certain there are no good wars, we are not so naive as to believe that there are no necessary wars.”
Lt. General Harold Moore (Author – “We Were Soldiers Once and Young”)
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
11:36 pm
Dusty
Americans voted for him because they liked his good record as governor of Texas, his service in the military, his good education which included an MBA, his attractive wife, and his honest and unassuming manner.
Um, Dusty, W didn’t win the popular vote in 2000 he won the electoral college after the SCOTUS ruled against the recount in Florida. Gore got more votes in the election, period. Did you forget that?
Also, he didn’t serve in the active service, he was a reserve which during Viet Nam was just as good as a deferment. Oh, and BTW, all his service records mysteriously disappeared.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
11:37 pm
Dusty, slight editorial note, I am a paleo-neo-Carlinist – not a neo-Carlinist. the neo-Carlinsit name was hijacked (by someone at the kids’ table).
Mick
August 31st, 2010
11:38 pm
rw
Yeah right – like you really know how the money was spent. Then, why are so many repubs taking credit for the funds in their districts? Doesn’t matter anyway, can’t expect too much from a ditto head.
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:42 pm
. “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.” –speaking underneath a “Mission Accomplished” banner aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, May 1, 2003
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” –Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” –Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
“You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.” –interview with CBS News’ Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006
“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” –State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that administration officials knew at the time to be false
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
11:42 pm
Dusty, there is hope for you my dear. wouldn’t it be better if you (and others) stopped “patting George Bush” in the back (or “anti-patting” Obama on the back)? I am like Stuart Smalley, “I like me”. I would much rather pat myself on the back (pure, self-absorbed narcissistic self-praise) than to heap meaningless platitudes, which border on pagan idolatry, to filthy politicians or talking heads, I find repugnant.
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:43 pm
brett,
My guess is you sit down to pee…
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:44 pm
Don’t forget,
You should stop listeining to all those commentators you mentioned. It gets you upset. I seldom turn on the radio and no TV during the day. So I get news from PBS News Hour; and some internet news. I suggest you do the same since you have so many misconceptions. Try it. You might like it.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:45 pm
“No one is free when others are oppressed.” Author Unknown
“A bad plan executed violently is better than a good plan executed slowly.” General Patton
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” John Stuart Mill
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” George Orwell
Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!”
“Salus populi suprema lex. ~ The safety of the people is the highest law”
“’sic vis pacum, para bellum’ ~ If you want peace prepare for war”
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ Sir Edmund Burke.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
11:45 pm
Oh yeah, and bush slept soundly in his comfy bed in Texas during the Viet Nam war while Kerry was in combat. So what did the republicans do to honor the vet who risked his life? They mocked him with “purple heart” band aids because they didn’t think his injuries were serious enough to warrant the medal. How’s that for supporting vets, not.
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:48 pm
Brett:
India Company
3rd Battalion, 4th Marines
Vietnam 1967-68 (Northern I Corps)
Scout Sniper
34 years federal law enforcement – retired.
You can confirm this with Jay if you like ……….. or not. No skin off my teeth.
Don't forget
August 31st, 2010
11:50 pm
Dusty
August 31st, 2010
11:44 pm
Don’t forget,
You should stop listeining to all those commentators you mentioned.
I seldom turn on the radio and no TV during the day. So I get news from PBS News Hour; and some internet news. I suggest you do the same since you have so many misconceptions. Try it. You might like it.
Dusty, your selective reality is exactly what is wrong with conservatives. If you don’t like what you hear you simply ignore it thereby choosing your reality to fit your beliefs.
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:51 pm
“I’ve always been kind of a pacifist. When I was a kid, my father told me, “Never hit anyone in anger, unless you’re absolutely sure you can get away with it.” I don’t know what kind of soldier I’m gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat… I’ll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way.” Stripes
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:52 pm
P.S. to Brett:
BBA Accounting, University of Georgia, Class of 1972.
Now how about you …………… ?
RW-(the original)
August 31st, 2010
11:54 pm
rw
Yeah right – like you really know how the money was spent. Then, why are so many repubs taking credit for the funds in their districts? Doesn’t matter anyway, can’t expect too much from a ditto head.
Mick,
I’m not sure which load of money you’re talking about, but war cost money has a significant portion spent here in equipment and such and Porkulus money spending has its own web site. You’re not usually into the pointless name calling so I hope all is well with you.
Brett
August 31st, 2010
11:54 pm
Crazed alcoholic BushDrunk left a bloodies world. A quivering lump of toxic failure. Poisonous. Supported by fellow-cowards. An administration that oversaw the events that led to 2 predictably failed, impossible “wars,” a health-care system collapse & the gluttonous raping of the U.S. Treasury. America’s most spectacularly incompent footnote. A wound that will remain eaw & open for decades to come. People who function/functioned at the very highest levels of dishonor. A “legacy” soaked to the bone in blood.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 31st, 2010
11:57 pm
Scout, thanks for not posting the John Adams screed about Islam…
but, you strike me as one who sees value, even “knowledge” in the words of others. I’ve posted this one before:
“Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.” Herman Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
I can’t determine of Bush, Cheney, Rove, et al were just riffing the Nazi play book, or if “great minds” actually “think alike” (which would mean evil minds think alike as well)
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:58 pm
Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell’s the matter with you? Stupid! We’re all very different people. We’re not Watusi. We’re not Spartans. We’re Americans, with a capital ‘A’, huh? You know what that means? Do ya? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We’re the underdog. We’re mutts! Here’s proof: his nose is cold! But there’s no animal that’s more faithful, that’s more loyal, more loveable than the mutt. Who saw “Old Yeller?” Who cried when Old Yeller got shot at the end? Stripes
Scout
August 31st, 2010
11:58 pm
Brett:
Please see my 11:48 and 11:52
Again, you can confirm this with Jay if you like.
I’ll be looking for your credentials in the morning.
Have a good evening ………………
landry
August 31st, 2010
11:59 pm
Lee Harvey, you are a madman. When you stole that cow, and your friend tried to make it with the cow. I want to party with you, cowboy. If the two of us together, forget it. I’m gonna go out on a limb here. I’m gonna volunteer my leadership to this platoon. An army without leaders is like a foot without a big toe. And Sergeant Hulka isn’t always gonna be here to be that big toe for us. I think that we owe a big round of applause to our newest, bestest buddy, and big toe… Sergeant Hulka.
Mick
September 1st, 2010
12:01 am
rw
I guess its because I know people whose jobs have been saved because of the stimulus. When I see the word porkulus, I think of limbaugh and his high school level educational bs. Things get the short shrift on a blog but when you see how it has had a positive effect on some families that are hard workers and play by the rules, whats wrong with that? I really don’t have an issue with you, so to speak.
Scout
September 1st, 2010
12:01 am
paleo-neo-Carlinist :
I keep trying to get out of here !!!
There is evil in the world ……… horrific evil.
Sometimes you fight that evil economically, sometimes education, sometimes politically, sometimes spiritually and sometime physically.
Dusty
September 1st, 2010
12:03 am
Neo Carliphant,
I remnded you not to get windy and you set off a hurricane. Let’s see.
I approve of the Electoral College way of electing our leaders. Gore lost.
I approve of our legal system with Supreme Courts making legal decisions. Gore lost.
The National Guard is a military service. Bush served.
I am an American so I can speak for Americans just as well as you or any other American..
You may find filthy politicians and talking heads repugnant but I don’t feel that way about Obama.
Now hush! We already have a hurricane off the east coast. We don’t need more wind here.
Scout
September 1st, 2010
12:05 am
Dusty:
Bush learned to fly military fighter jets which is inherently very dangerous. Just look at the training and operational records.
Dusty
September 1st, 2010
12:07 am
RW, my friend,
Just call me Dolly Decorum! (Thank you, kind sir.)
PS..the Braves played really GOOD tonight. I enjoyed that game…Go Braves!!
RW-(the original)
September 1st, 2010
12:09 am
Mick,
I don’t think I’ve ever heard Rush use the word Porkulus but if it comforts you to think anybody that doesn’t believe Porkulus “saved” rather than “temporarily extended” jobs is evil than so be it and he may well have used it. I do know he didn’t coin it and I do know that kicking a job loss down to the next corner didn’t “save” the job.
Mick
September 1st, 2010
12:10 am
scout
Yes he did and I agree, but he did one thing that you or I would not – he didn’t complete the mission when it came to his service. The irony of course is that he sent the reserves into combat in iraq and in many cases, their death.
AmVet
September 1st, 2010
12:14 am
You left out the rest of he story non-Paul Harvey.
George then didn’t show up for duty for his entire last year to go stump for some no-name Republican hack in Alabama.
A real hero. At least to the chickenhawks.
And so he kissed his ass.
Over and out.
Mick
September 1st, 2010
12:15 am
**I do know that kicking a job loss down to the next corner didn’t “save” the job.**
Tell that to the family down the street with a mortgage and kids to feed. Hopefully the economy will pick up and then you can consider it a bridge to more stable employment. Don’t get caught up in one dimensional thinking especially when it comes to someone else’s life. I pay taxes and support the stimulus, que sera, sera.
Montana
September 1st, 2010
12:18 am
Honestly, the surge was a battle for improving a War, not winning it. Thank God we are getting out, what a waste of our Youth and Treasury set on a bed of lies.
RW-(the original)
September 1st, 2010
12:22 am
Mick,
Illusion versus reality is easier for some and I can understand that, but if your job is being funded by temporary cash infusions you might want to switch to reality based thinking.
Dusty,
I can call you Dolly D except on Fridays when that moniker might get confusing to the “deep cut” wannabe DJ’s we have crawling all over this place.
popeye
September 1st, 2010
12:24 am
Scout
September 1st, 2010
12:05 am
Dusty:
Bush learned to fly military fighter jets which is inherently very dangerous. Just look at the training and operational records.
That he did. Then what did he do after the taxpayer invested all that money in his training?
Failed to show up for his annual scheduled flight physical! A real no..no.
What happens when an aviator does not show? He/she is immediately removed from flight status and assigned a desk.
Mick
September 1st, 2010
12:27 am
rw
My job is secure, this is getting pointless. Having a real paycheck versus no paycheck all be it temporary, is better than no paycheck at all – and that ain’t no illusion.