There’s no Santa or Tooth Fairy, and no quick fix for economy

“There ain’t no Santa Claus, there ain’t no Easter Bunny, and there ain’t no easy, quick solution to problems like this one.”

Just more excuses for the lack of action the past 2 years by Obama. Good luck in November this year. Let’s just hope Obama doesn’t start vetoing every bill the Republicans try to pass.

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One easy partial fix would be to stop banks from buying
government or private securities which would force them
to “invest” in loans to businesses and individuals.

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But But But Phil Gramm said it was just a mental recession.

And McCain suspended his campaign….

And we’ve all been standing for 30 plus years holding a bucket to catch the trickle down but our buckets are dry….

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it’s gonna take a generation, not an election cycle.

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I might also add that the existence of (adjustable) growth boundaries similar to what exists in Oregon would help as well. That will never, ever happen in GA though.

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“Who’s been running Congress the past four years?”

fercryingoutloud. do you honestly think this problem started in 2007???

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“there ain’t no easy, quick solution to problems like this one.”

And fixes designed to help people and lessen these effects don’t work out so well. What is it, about half of the people who applied for the administration’s mortgage relief program have withdrawn? Add to that I read this morning (Associated Press) “One in 10 American households with a mortgage was at risk of foreclosure this summer as the government’s efforts to help have had little impact stemming the housing crisis.”

Add to that talk of a second recession…. time to move the retirement savings to cash, I think.

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Don’t even talk about negative equity. There’s a house on the corner in my neighborhood that I think just sold for $107k. Great deal for the new buyer, but truly f’ed up for me. That house was originally $160-$170k when first built. It’s a different floor plan from mine, but nearly the same everywhere else. It just means that my deflated house just deflated even more.

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Nothing was being done to correct anything beginning in 2007, correct?

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Despite the relevance of macroeconomic factors for explaining the financial crisis, there is resistance to such an explanation. In part, this is because such factors operate indirectly and gradually, while microeconomic explanations that emphasize regulatory failure and flawed incentives within financial markets operate directly. Regulatory and incentive failures are specific, easy to understand, and offer a concrete “fixit” agenda that appeals to politicians who want to show they are doing something. They also tend to be associated with tales of villainy that attract media interest (such as Bernie Madoff’s massive Ponzi scheme or the bonus scandals at AIG and Merrill Lynch). Finally, and perhaps most important, a microeconomic focus does not challenge the larger structure of economic arrangements, while a macroeconomic focus invites controversy by placing these matters squarely on the table.

–Thomas Palley, America’s Exhausted Paradigm

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Since Republicans are so much more educated than Democrats (or is it conservatives versus liberals or something else), I suppose that means that they’re all doing real good with their mortgages and probably don’t even have a mortgage and don’t have any money tied up in no teetering Georgia bank either for that matter. And they all have jobs and are all current on their credit card debt and mortgage payments, etc. In fact, all they need to make their lives just plain perfect is another tax cut. Right. Am I right?

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
9:25 am

“Who’s been running Congress the past four years?”

fercryingoutloud. do you honestly think this problem started in 2007???

Correct, it started in the 90’s with Mr. Bill “I did not have sexual relations with that women” Clintax. Thanks Bill, the vast right-winged conspiracy is smiling!

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Upset there is no Santa Claus but I assume we could blindly throw a dart at the board and get a better, more competent leader. One perhaps that knows the role of government.

Obama’s policies are hurting the lowest income earners.

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The chart above, from Calculated Risk

Which is, for the record, not the Mudd Club nor CBGB. (I haven’t the time for that at present.)

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barking frog
August 27th, 2010
9:25 am

as always figures may lie, if you reduce the negative equity
by the amount of rent the homeowner would have paid if
he didn’t own the home you get a different picture completely.

Dumbest Post of the day but it’s early!

If a bullfrog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass! There! We’re even in dumbness!

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Get over it SoCo. Houses in my neighborhood were sold for $500-$750K in the 06-08 era. Now some of them are going sub 3.

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AmVet – 9:28 – golf clap … well said.

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There ain’t no Santa Claus, there ain’t no Easter Bunny, and there ain’t no easy, quick solution to problems like this one.

But whatever you propose, don’t include even the possibility of cramdowns, because it makes Alan Greenspan cry, or something.

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Bosch

Welcome to my world!

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Sigh. I love it when USinUK talks finance and hangs the wingnuts out to dry. It’s better than music on Fridays…..

Sigh.

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I’m here…..

I’ve read your posts and um, I don’t want to go into your world, but thanks for the invite.

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It must be nice being the President though. He gets to go on the nice lavish vacations while we sit here and struggle. Like Letterman said, “He’ll have plenty of time for vacations when his one term is up.”

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Barney Frank was playing Santa Claus with Fannie and Freddie being the Easter Bunny. Also, Jay this graph is misleading. Of course when people lose their jobs they can’ pay mortgages or buy houses so prices drop so mortgages valued at higher prices become “underwater” when marked to market versus book value. I would like to see how many were underwater at the start of the loan.

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that jolly elf Obama said he had all the answers !!

Well no, he didn’t.

Who here “secretly despises” the military, as you claim Obama does, Scout? Name names, please.

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Bosch, yes it is. And apropos on several levels.

Correct, it started in the 90’s…

Yes, and “Clinton’s bombs” killed 50,000 innocent civilians in Yugoslavia.

(I wonder if there are any openings on the Glenn Beck Program?!)

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“How many of those folks are going to be in the mood to spend money, generating the demand needed to restart the economy?”

I have to disagree that “Mortgage Negative Equity” is a primary dampening factor in this economy, since a home is first and foremost a place to live, and an investment second. The concept of negative equity only applies if you are planning to move soon, so at best it may have a dampening effect on mobility.

While I applaud Jay for trying to even the score between the number of columns devoted to the Cordoba Project vs. the economy (6:4 in the last month now), I have to still criticize him for not acknowledging what many financial experts feel is the real culprit behind companies’ reluctance to hire: the uncertainty created by Obama and the Dems with their anti-business legislation/rhetoric. If my theory is correct, we won’t see much of an upturn until at least next year after the Repubs sweep the elections this November.

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oh, stoppit, Bosch … you’re making me blush …

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Jay,

No quick fix?!? The stimulus was supposed to fix it all. Lower unemployment and create jobs! Don’t tell me that I was mislead by Obama….I don’t think I could believe it.

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Economic crises should be understood as a combination of proximate and ultimate factors. The proximate factors represent the triggering events, while the ultimate factors represent the deep causes. The meltdown of the subprime mortgage market in August 2007 triggered the current crisis, which was amplified by policy failures such as the decision to allow the collapse of Lehman Brothers. However, a crisis of the magnitude now being experienced requires a facilitating macroeconomic environment. That macroeconomic environment has been a long time in the making and can be traced back to the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and the inauguration of the era of neo-liberal economics.

The Post-1980 Neo-liberal Growth Model

The impact of the neo-liberal economic growth model is apparent in the changed character of the U.S. business cycle. Before 1980, economic policy was designed to achieve full employment, and the economy was characterized by a system in which wages grew with productivity. This configuration created a virtuous circle of growth. Rising wages meant robust aggregate demand, which contributed to full employment. Full employment in turn provided an incentive to invest, which raised productivity, thereby supporting higher wages.

After 1980, with the advent of the new growth model, the commitment to full employment was abandoned as inflationary, with the result that the link between productivity growth and wages was severed. In place of wage growth as the engine of demand growth, the new model substituted borrowing and asset price inflation. Adherents of the neo-liberal orthodoxy made controlling inflation their primary policy concern, and set about attacking unions, the minimum wage, and other worker protections. Meanwhile, globalization brought increased foreign competition from lower-wage economies and the prospect of off-shoring of employment.

The new neo-liberal model was built on financial booms and cheap imports. Financial booms provide consumers and firms with collateral to support debt-financed spending. Borrowing is also sustained by financial innovation and deregulation that ensures a flow of new financial products, allowing increased leverage and widening the range of assets that can be collateralized. Meanwhile, cheap imports ameliorate the impact of wage stagnation, thereby maintaining political support for the model. Additionally, rising wealth and income inequality
makes high-end consumption a larger and more important component of economic activity, leading to the development of what Ajay Kapur, a former global strategist for Citigroup, termed a “plutonomy.”

–Thomas Palley, America’s Exhausted Paragigm

This is what is wrong with our economy. Until we change it, nothing will change.

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“The stimulus was supposed to fix it all”

no it wasn’t – it was meant to plug the hole and help prime the pump, not be the be-all / end-all for the economy.

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I doubt if these comedians said all of this but there still funny ……… and mostly true.

The liberals are asking us to give Obama time. We agree . . . And think 25 to life would be appropriate.
–Jay Leno

America needs Obama-care like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
–Jay Leno

Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?
A: Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it.
–Conan O’Brien

Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser.
–Jay Leno

Q: What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society. The other is for housing prisoners.
–David Letterman

Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America!
–Jimmy Fallon

Q: What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?
A: Bo has papers.
–Jimmy Kimmel

Q: What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road.
–David Letterman

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“That house was originally $160-$170k”

“Houses in my neighborhood were sold for $500-$750K”

Y’all are making me feel puny–I paid less than $80,000 for mine.

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“the uncertainty created by Obama and the Dems with their anti-business legislation/rhetoric.”

Like what Paul?

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larry
August 27th, 2010
9:38 am

Does anyone remember the Bankruptcy Law that was passed in 2005 and signed into law making it harder to file for bankruptcy?

That and the fact in this state that you become even late one payment, the lender can start foreclosure procedures will make foreclousures go up.

Please!!! Live within you’re means period. Is that too hard?

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The rule of thumb used to be….have two years of income readily available, just in case. I’m thinking it’s changed to 5 now.

So, jay…if there’s no easy fix, will the federal government stop throwing good money after bad? I’m thinking about my daughter, your daughters, and everyone else’s kids. Why saddle them with the cost of past mistakes?

It just don’t seem right, but that’s just my opinion.

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USinUK @ 9:43

How about the hypocrisy !

Out of here for the day ……….. you all be nice.

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Good Morning Jay,

I think your analysis and comments are spot on, and I am a conservative…

There is no quick fix. Greed I think really caused many of the problems. Lending institutions made a great number of bad loans to individuals that did not have income to support the home purchase, or homes were purchased at a price that resulted in almost a negative monthly cash flow.

As artificial property values rose, individuals refinanced and spent the money rather foolishly. Now with the drop in the market, people are facing higher debt and lower property values. This happened in Houston in the late 80’s when the oil market went belly up…..

What bothers me, is the lack of responsibility of some of these homeowners that are just walking away. They didn’t walk away when the refinanced and foolishly spent the money… now we have the boo hoo’s and whining… Well, you can’t have it both ways.

On a sadder note, we have individuals that have lost jobs and are struggling to make the payments. I don’t believe in debt forgiveness, but I think we need to really have some type of financing program to assist them. IT WOULD NOT BE APPLICABLE TO PEOPLE THE REFINANCED AND TOOK THE MONEY AND AS YOU SAY, USED IT AS AN ATM.

While I don’t support all the spending programs, I think we need a program to help in the refinancing of homes for out of work individuals… We should not punish these people because of current economic conditions.

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“It wasn’t sold that way to the masses”

show me one quote where Obama said that this would fix the economy –

yes, he thought that the unemployment numbers would be 1.5% lower – but nowhere did he say “this will make everything better” – this was meant to stop the free-fall

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Morning, Bosch

““the uncertainty created by Obama and the Dems with their anti-business legislation/rhetoric.”

Like what Paul?”

You may want to reach for a second cup of coffee. ’twasn’t me.

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“What’s hurting us is that other nearby subdivisions that were way overpriced are now like Foreclosureland and dragging our values down with them.”

yep, that’s what’s happening around here too.

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I don’t know much about the national economy except for what I learn here. Shoot, when I took Econ 101, credit cards were just starting, but I had parents who taught me basic things like “don’t spend what you don’t have”. “Always put a little away for a rainy day”. You know, the old fashioned “penney saved, penny earned” stuff. But it works.

I saw the signs in ‘07 and took out enough savings to pay off my autos and my main house. It was just in the nick of time. I do have a rental property that I owe more than it is worth, but I have a tenent who isn’t going anywhere and the rent pays the mortgage. I also never keep a balance on my credit cards. I say this because yesterday, I received an e-mail from my bank that my credit rating is 806. They want in my pockets soooo bad, but nah!

I am looking for a motorcycle though….

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HAHA. I wouldn’t pay that much to send my kids to Parkview either. I send mine to Marist and that’s what it costs to live in Buckhead/Sandy Springs.

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Southern Comfort – yeah, not quite. Minimum downpayments in Canada are 25% and are often 35% depending. Ie, the old adage you have to save up to buy a house would apply again.

Canada doesn’t have any housing problem. I’m not a huge fan of canadians, but on this one they got it right.

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‘RECOVERY SUMMER’ ENDS SICK GDP REVISION: 1.6%

Let’s start hearing the lib excuses.

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Paul,

What the hell? I know I read that somewhere! I think I’m hallucinating.

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what it costs to live in Buckhead/Sandy Springs

That’s why I live on the south side. I still think prices are bloated up there. Then again, what I paid for my house here would get me at least 3 homes back in my hometown.

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USink,
“whatever happened to personal responsibility???”

Whatever happened to the government showing they can be responsible?

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leg lamp – exports were down because the dollar strengthened against Sterling (1.5%) and the Euro (9.4%)

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In place of wage growth as the engine of demand growth, the new model substituted borrowing and asset price inflation.

BINGO! We have a winner!!

Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.

In 1950, the ratio of the average executive’s paycheck to the average worker’s paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.

More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.

Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 – the highest rate in 20 years.

Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.

The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.

You trickle downers and fiscal conservatives got what you’ve worked thirty years or more for – the American plutocracy.

Way to go…

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Peadawg,

Can you BE more whiny or hypocritical? Were you all a swoon when our soldiers were dying in Iraq and Bush was on vacation? Don’t you think he should have been camped out in the Situation Room?

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“When people are struggling to pay their bills and the President is going on vacations to other countries, yes I’ll complain”

Martha’s Vineyard is another country?

hrm. you may want to check your atlas.

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USink,

The government has a lot to do with creditors because they have creditors too! We could lose our AAA credit rating because of our mismanagement. I want a government that LEADS. Show us how it’s done.

Talk is cheap.

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Doggone – well, Maine IS awfully close to Canuckland … and Florida … well … you know …

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the President is going on vacations to other countries

Countries? it was one (1) country, Spain, and oh yeah, it wasn’t the President but rather his wife.

see also:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/aug/10/michelle-obama-spain-vacation

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I was talking more about the nice vacation to Spain. But you get my point. We don’t get to take vacations…why does he? But it doesn’t matter…he’ll be on a permanent vacation starting in 2013. Enjoy it while it last Bozo!

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
9:49 am

“Tell that to your creditors and see what they say! ”

so, it’s the government’s fault you carry debt???

whatever happened to personal responsibility???

I CAN’T read it and comprehend it for you to! Tell you’re creditors the same thing about spending more money to get out of the hole you are in. (i.e. Like Obama’s stimulus) Should a draw you a picture?

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“I was talking more about the nice vacation to Spain”

Last time I looked it was BARACK Obama who was our President, not MICHELLE Obama. Michelle went to Spain with one of their daughters, not the President. And except for security, she paid for that vacation.

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“and no quick fix for economy”

And back to the title. We’re not looking for a quick fix. We’re looking for some progress. But unemployment is worse/same and deficit is higher since Obama took office.

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jm

I think the problem was more related to greed. Unscrupulus mortgage writers saw the suckers lining up at their doors and took full advantage of it. Many of the 1st time buyers didn’t take the time to research the whole process and got screwed.

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Southern Comfort
August 27th, 2010
9:51 am

what it costs to live in Buckhead/Sandy Springs

That’s why I live on the south side. I still think prices are bloated up there. Then again, what I paid for my house here would get me at least 3 homes back in my hometown.

As a native, the houses on the South-side have always been well below the houses on the North-side. They always will be! Ever wonder why?

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Hey Normal- working with a great chap that owns two Harely dealerships- what are you looking for?

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“We don’t get to take vacations…why does he?”

Speak for yourself dude. I’m still tanned from my beach trip.

~~~~~~~~~~

“So is going to the Texas Whitehouse the same as six vacations in some of the most expensive locations in the world?”

Yes.

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I don’t know about all this overpriced housing talk. Clayton County is inundated with affordable housing and our foreclosure rate is WAAYYYYYYYY up there.

An incompetent school board….a sheriff that never served a warrant during his tenure….a D.A. that allowed the court calendar to pile up ’cause she’d never tried a criminal case during her entire legal career….developers/homebuilders sitting on our Board of Commissioners.

SHEESH! It was a disaster waiting to happen. They’re gone, I’m not.

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“It must be nice! It’s pretty obvious they aren’t in touch with the average American.”

wow. so, all those americans I see here in London are … what? Canadians in disguise?

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AmVet- please see education and technology. Also look at income disparities in second and third worlds before given your cute little stats that actually work against you.

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“So what is going on with the Euro? Not stable? Not sound? Why is that?”

why? because you have 1 central bank setting policy for 16 different countries with 16 different economies. Not all of them are strong / stable (yes, I’m looking at you Greece and Portugal), while others are extremely strong (Germany and France, to a lesser degree).

short answer, that’s why.

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Back in a few, have to go play with the 1% who own all the stocks!

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“you don’t? your job doesn’t allow it?

or is it your finances?”

My job allows it. But what’s the fun of a staycation?

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Kevin

August 27th, 2010
10:02 am

Keven,
I’m looking for a 650cc to 900cc cruiser for me and my petite wife for weekend cruising, but a Harley, can’t see it. Wouldn’t be prudent. Costs too much. I’ll have to settle for a rice burner…but thanks!

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“g’morning folkses! sorry I’m late … what’s the poop?”

USinUK–Actually, you missed my song choice for you this AM:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/08/26/glenn-beck-the-gold-standard-of-megalomania/comment-page-5/#comment-383063

Well, I guess Bernanke’s speech is over. The market just tanked.

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“you seemed to think that the Obamas are doing something that the rest of America can’t do.”

Ya, um, they are. Did I ever say a vacation is a right? No. It’s a luxury that most people can’t afford. Like I said..must be nice Mr. President.

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“But what’s the fun of a staycation?”

You sell your state too short. I’ve been having a lot of fun with “staycations” this summer. My summer project this year is “chasing” waterfalls in North GA. Been to about 30 or 35 so far.

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Also look at income disparities in second and third worlds before given your cute little stats that actually work against you.

Kevin, here’s a much better idea. Manup and provide them yourself. Then produce a cogent analysis to countermand the facts I posted.

I’ll wait til the cows come home…

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Doggone/GA
August 27th, 2010
10:06 am

“It’s pretty obvious they aren’t in touch with the average American.”

I don’t see that. What’s so “out of touch” about taking a vacation you can afford to take? Just because I can’t, at the moment, afford to take a vacation away from home…why should I begrudge her her vacation? It’s no skin off MY nose if she takes a vacation she pays for. Good for her to be able to do it.

The million plus that is cost the AMERICAN TAXPAYER to send Ms.Obama to Spain could have been used to save your people’s food stamps that the Democrats CUT!

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@@ – you bring up another irony. Housing in metro (and urban) Atlanta is comparatively cheap. Extremely cheap in some circumstances. And the government idiots involved in the Beltline and other projects insist we don’t have enough affordable housing in this city. Free, market rate housing in this city is exceedingly cheap already.

It seems there’s not enough we can do to help those in need apparently. Not to sound cold hearted, the destitute need help and support, but listen to how this has played out in reality:

The US government seeking to expand home ownership among the poor guarantees basically any mortgage; lenders and mortgage brokers proceed to lend to anyone, poor, rich, competent, incompetent; housing collapses and taxpayers take it in the gut with an estimated $400 billion in losses on Fannie and Freddie; housing prices are collapsing become stupidly cheap; and somehow we need to keep subsidizing housing for the poor buy purchasing or building homes for them and renting them to them at subsidized rates through the AHA or the Beltline folks. Its positively absurd….

How much more do taxpayers need to provide, in particular to those that aren’t really in need?

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“So you think that the immaculate Obamas have ANYTHING in common with the people that post here. I’m pretty sure Michelle would be hurling if she knew what you just wrote. There ain’t no commoners that have anything in common with the New American Royalty”

wow. between you people and your mix of Messiah complex and Royalty obsession, it’s a wonder you’re not on serious medication.

considering the way they were both raised, I think they would be able to relate to most of the people in this forum – far better, in fact, than those from the Bush family.

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jm

Not all people did the government 0% program. I went conventional w/nothing down. I did it based on credit rating. I took a slightly higher rate from the bank and didn’t have to put anything down. I was also able to get that financing without having to pay PMI. I looked at the FHA programs and stuff, but I didn’t want any dealings with that. All they did was roll the downpayment into the home price and financed all that into the mortgage.

I’ll agree somewhat that that program may have been a problem, however I think more of the blame goes to the mortgage companies and the people signing the paperwork.

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The Blog is on the housing market. Vacation’s are listed in the travel section.

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jt

August 27th, 2010
10:07 am

No jt, these are the times in which people with no answers spout violence. Remember the old adage, “violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. It’s to easy to say lock and load. It’s a lot harder to give sane and helpful solutions to the problem. It is especially inane to try to stop a President from doing anything to help. That brings up another adage about cutting off your nose to spite your face…

Come on, jt, you’re better than that.

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I’m here

I noticed that when I was house hunting. Never knew the logic behind it, but it’s too crowded and too inflated for me to live north of I-20. I’m thinking about moving farther south if I can get out of the house I’m currently in.

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barking frog
August 27th, 2010
10:13 am

I’m here, want another dumb post? You are in worse
financial condition than the homeless guy on the
street corner except for INCOME….and educated
people know the difference between your and you’re..

I knew we needed another Gram mer policeman/women. Thanks, I’ll get my peeps on it!

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“I think it’s great that liberals now get to decide what everyone’s goals should be.”

dude. you seriously need to sit down and take a deep breath.

it might help when you accept all that “personal responsibility” your side likes to espouse. if you can afford to travel, travel. if you can’t, then don’t.

but hating on someone because they can – well, gosh, that sounds like something you’d criticize a liberal for.

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
10:15 am

“We don’t pay for their vacations with our taxes.”

other than the security (which you pay for, regardless of where they are), the Obamas pay for theirs

DON’T forget about the BIG BIRD! She didn’t swim! Or maybe her husband parted the seas!

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Hey tough guy AmVet- why don’t you manup and meet me big guy. I hire 50 lower income folks or so a year- how about you?

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“From yesterday’s fun post …is like a Democrat talking to someone else about personal responsibility.”

Nice dodge there Peadawg, but it still sounds to me that you are bitter for your own circumstances and looking to blame someone other than yourself for your own problems.

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Southern Comfort – when the government gives away money, corruption of the process follows and it becomes self – perpetuating because the greedy buyers and intermediaries lobby to prevent the process from ending, until it blows up because its unsustainable. It’s as simple as that.

If you’re a taxpayer, you’re subsidizing all those bad mortgages out there. While you may not have put anything down, the fact that you can pay a mortgage consistently also indicates you probably would have had the ability to save up for the down payment in a matter of 5 or 10 years, if you wanted. You are subsidizing all the non-payers out there. How does that feel. You’re responsible and subsidizing all those who were irresponsible or incompetent.

We are getting our due. Hopefully people learn and hopefully government wind down FHA, Fannie, and Freddie. We’ll see.

By the way, there’s no such thing as a conventional 0% down mortgage. If you didn’t put anything down, you implicitly got a government subsidized mortgage. So did I, even though I put 10% down because a 90% mortgage wouldn’t exist without the government. For everyone’s sake, that has to end.

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“Bruno – I la-la-LOVE arctic monkeys!!! which song was it?”

The whole point of picking an Arctic Monkey song was to keep you guessing all day. I will say that the one you picked above was probably better than the one I settled on, however.

I’m patting myself on the back for the choice since you only mentioned them once on the W2W blog. Whatever I lack in other areas of pleasing a woman, I make up for by remembering what is special to her.

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Normal @ 10:07 – Before you buy a rice burner, try a late model 1200 H-D Sportster. They are vastly improved over earlier models with vibration isolating engine mounts (similar to Dyna), better brakes, suspension, etc. Prices are down.

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“looking to blame someone other than yourself for your own problems.”

I don’t have any problems. Wife, 2 dogs, house, jobs for both of us. But money is still tight and it just kinda sets a bad example when the POTUS is off enjoying vacations when the rest of the country is struggling.

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Doggone/GA
August 27th, 2010
10:18 am

“The million plus that is cost the AMERICAN TAXPAYER ”

I’d like to see your source for that figure. A million? The most I could find was somewhere around $350,000 – mostly for security costs that we have to pay no matter where she is or goes.

RENT a 757 for a week, then get back to me! DUH!!!

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Home buyers and owners are suckers.

I sold my place in 2005 and have been renting for since. I’ve keep my sale proceeds in long bonds and I’m KILLING.

Don’t be a sucker and buy into the crap spewed my the housing industry especially those dopey it’s-a-great-time-to-buy realtor types. In others words, never ask a barber if you need a haircut.

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By the way- don’t need to- google income disparities Mexico Pakistan or any country in Africa my good little friend.

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Anywhere anytime- plenty of cattle- I call them employees.

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Well, we all know this started with no or few requirements to obtain a mortgage, thanks to the Dems, and builders jumped in building more homes.

I would like to throw this out as a solution, take your shots. The Feds take some waste out of the budget, what is left in Tarp, the Porkulus bill, and whatever money can be raised without taxing the poor future homebuyers out there and grant contracts to RE partnerships who contract to buy and hold houses. They would be allowed to sell a maximum number of homes per month and required to maintain a large inventory. Any money they made would be used to repay the loans from the Fed, and when the housing market recovers any homes left in inventory would be theirs to sell as they choose and any profit left over after repayment of the original loan would be theres to keep. We have to do something with the inventory and importing poor Mexicans is not going to accomplish anything. With job growth down, the number of people who can afford a home continues to shrink, so something drastic has to happen to improve the housing market.

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barking frog
August 27th, 2010
10:21 am

I’m here 10:16 I hope your peeps are not the peeps
handing you the financial handouts..not concerned
about the grammAr just the condescenscion..

I feel your pain! Others have felt the same way!

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Holy cow…Bookman actually wrote a column about the economy without blaming George W. Bush. I’m speechless.

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Grumpy

August 27th, 2010
10:28 am

Jay probably still has two more articles in him today where he can blame Bush for something.

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Good Little Liberal

you really don’t know?

afraid to google it I suppose.

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“When I hear people refer to the cause of the housing problem all due to blacks”

SC–You may appreciate the comedy of Sammy Davis Jr. He liked to say “I’m colored, Jewish and Puerto Rican. When I move into a neighborhood, I wipe it out!”

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Leg Lamp 10:26 Um, you misspelled “condescension”. Just sayin’
———————————————————————————————-
I’m glad an educated person realized that..

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“RENT a 757 for a week, then get back to me! DUH!!!”

In other words, you don’t have a source…you just made up that figure. They didn’t fly on Air Force one, which is a 747, they flew on Air Force Two, which is a Boeing C-32 (modified 757) and they didn’t fly it for a week…they flew it for about 8 hours one way.

According to this report: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012557439_mobama07.html – the cost to fly the plain is about $178,000 of which the Obama’s will reimburse the government the cost of a round-trip first class air ticket – which is about $7,400 apiece.

The security costs, as already stated, would be taxpayer funded regardless…and SHE does not have a say in what her security detail will be. The Secret Security determines that.

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JB, why don’t you just acknowledge the proverbial turd in the punch bowl and admit it? the econmony is not BROKEN. bubbles/bust and growth/recessions ARE the nature of the economy, not abberations. Americans can cling to their delsuional fantasies about Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, but the truth is, the American (post-industrial) economy has always been managed by bankers. Bankers set interest rates, which inflate or deflate housing bubbles, or provide “cheap money” for the purposes of stock speculation (tech bubble of late 90’s). it’s a win/win for the banks because they know when to stick a pin in the bubble (when America is “leveraged”) and they simply “sell short” and begin the process over. the 2008 “pin prick” was particularly rough because it involved trillons of dollars, as opposed to hundreds of millions or billions in “pricks” past. This isn’t Roosevelt’s fault or Reagans or Bushes, or Clinton’s or Barney Frank’s or Obama’s (who do you think OWNS the politicians). Wake up America.

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USinUK

August 27th, 2010
10:30 am

And what was it Bill Clinton did “to make sure he didn’t have to fight”? At least W served in the reserves. I believe Wild Bill went overseas. I wouldn’t trivialize ANY military service. Don’t forget, a huge part of the forces deployed in Iraq were reservists.

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“Dude, you need to first calm down yourself and then you might want to stop pretending to be the hall monitor.”

as for the hate, you might want to go back and reread some of your posts and your tone about the Obamas (particularly your 10:10 – the hate comes through loud and clear)

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Jay

August 27th, 2010
10:33 am

Harumph, harumph!! Truer words were never spoken. I can’t believe you and I totally agree on something.

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One of the bigger culture-shock thingies I had to absorb when moving Down Here from Metro NYC was the age at which people chose to buy a house.

It’s like 20somethings here are allergic to living in an icky rental apartment, or something. Whereas where I came from such life was, and still largely is, a rite of passage—you graduate from college, then you go live in a crap apartment or maybe share a less-than-wonderful rental house with others, or maybe suck it up and live with parent(s), presumably paying some modest rent, while you saved for that 20% down payment. Or 10% if you were really living on the edge.

(and yeah, I know, I’m painting with a broad brush here.)

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Doggone/GA

Work for yourself if you have a question. Kind of the American thing to do! I know it’s a four letter word but “YOU CAN DO IT”!

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could Fox News day time be more white and blonde?

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“is that it takes an AVERAGE of 39 months to stop the bleeding and 5-6 years before things start to rebound.”

ByteMe–Thanks for that stat, probably the only solid piece of info to give us hope right now.

“Just as gov’t can’t cure everything, gov’t also can’t be blamed for everything. It has limited powers to do either.”

Jay–I’ll give you points for consistency in downplaying the government’s role, as you did in your July 15 column entitled “Flush with $1.8 trillion, corporate America sits on the sidelines”. At the same time, can you (or any other Lib here) acknowledge that to whatever extent Obama could have helped or hurt the economy, it’s all been hurt??

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/07/15/flush-with-1-8-trillion-corporate-america-sits-on-the-sidelines/

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Kevin

August 27th, 2010
10:40 am

Playing the race card before lunch? Thank you, Rev. Sharpton.

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leg lamp – “And what was it Bill Clinton did “to make sure he didn’t have to fight”? At least W served in the reserves”

we’re not talking about serving / not serving – we’re talking about the families in which Bush and Obama were raised.

keep up.

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“And yet another liberal who can read minds OVER the internet”

your 10:10 doesn’t require much mind reading.

it was all right there.

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Southern Comfort – you don’t know whether your loan is a fannie / freddie loan. It’s up to the lender. But basically, any loan written to what are known as the conforming rules is going to get sold to the government. They use fannie / freddie conforming loan documents.

So know one knows they’re in essence getting a loan from the government (through the bank intermediary), it just happens behind the scenes.

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oops – replace “know one” with “no one”

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
10:42 am

Does that truly matter? You were obviously rooting for Al Gore in 2000, and probably John Kerry in 2004. And chances are you were a huge JFK fan. I don’t think they missed many meals. It’s time to lighten up, Francis.

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Kevin
August 27th, 2010
10:40 am

could Fox News day time be more white and blonde?

And gorgeous too!

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“He got us into a war in Iraq under false pretenses”

Congress had access to the same shytty information Bush did. So it’s not all on Bush.

“initiated an expensive new entitlement program in Medicare Part D”

Holy shyt a Democrat complaining about an entitlement program. Congrats, Jay!

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…having a great time on vacation, trying to decide where to spend our next one.

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GLL – “So you think that the immaculate Obamas have ANYTHING in common with the people that post here. I’m pretty sure Michelle would be hurling if she knew what you just wrote. There ain’t no commoners that have anything in common with the New American Royalty”

oh, yeah.

that’s just brimming with love and respect.

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Peadawg

August 27th, 2010
10:47 am
Peadawg, you KNOW that’s not true…

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BUSH….

Iraq had poison gas and over 550 metric tons of Uranium. WMD’s? Nah, those are Ken and Barbie’s toys!

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Once more: Can any of the Libs here acknowledge that to whatever extent Obama could have helped or hurt the economy, it’s all been hurt??

I guess the latest poll numbers provide the confirmation:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

From the link:

“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 27% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -17 (see trends).

Voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 of the important issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.”

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USinUK

“you realize I have that trademarked, don’t you?”

I steal only the best!

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“Congress had access to the same shytty information Bush did. So it’s not all on Bush.”

He’s the Commander in Chief – he says “start the bombing”

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USinUK

and then she didn’t recognize the famous words of Barbara Bush after review the Katrina survivors…

that one’s brimming with something alright.

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Doggone/GA
August 27th, 2010
10:50 am

“So it’s not all on Bush.”

He was CIC. Congress did not declare war, all they did (and I HAVE lambasted them for it) was pass a “use of force” resolution. It was still Bush’s decision to GO to war…and he did. It’s his fault. But it’s ALSO the fault of Congress that they were stupid enough to pass that resolution AND then to pass funding bills FOR that war.

But it was always Bush’s decision, it’s always his fault in the end

IT’S OFFICIAL….The kook-aid stand is open for business!

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No dear, it started in 1999

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As usual, Soothsayer nails it at 9:40.

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I think it was Don’t forget that mentioned how the GOP was holding up the Small Business Tax Credit. Well…..

Eager to promote the new small-business tax credit, the government this spring mailed 4 million eligible companies postcards with highlights of the program. The response has been tepid, according to insurance brokers who sell small-group policies. The reason, they argue, is that the credit starts to phase out for companies that pay average annual wages of more than $25,000 or employ more than 25 workers. The value of the benefit declines quickly, so many business owners in high-cost states get no tax break, and those elsewhere often say the credit is too small to make much of a difference. Sales of health plans have gotten “very little traction so far,” says James Stenger, director of business development for BenefitMall, which sells small-group plans in New Jersey.

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/aug2010/sb20100825_366429.htm

This administration is bad about putting the card before the horse.

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Granny Godzilla
August 27th, 2010
10:50 am

“Congress had access to the same shytty information Bush did. So it’s not all on Bush.”

AGAIN….NOPE not true….

GG aka You know WHO!, did Iraq have poison gas and uranium? Did they use the poison gas on the Kurds and Iranians?

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Bookman,

WHERE ARE WE GOING? YOUR POST WAS UNSPECIFIC!

Kind of hard to read your mind. I’m not US in the UK!

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But I have never tried to saddle him with blame for this economic collapse, which in truth has 300 million fathers and mothers.

I take issue with ^^^ that, jay. With my limited knowledge, it should read 299 million fathers and mothers.

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I have the sneaking suspicion that NIF is back.

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Can any of the Libs here acknowledge that to whatever extent Obama could have helped or hurt the economy, it’s all been hurt?

Bruno, your question asks me to presume that we’d have been better off if the federal government had adopted an austerity program and allowed individual states to do draconian cutbacks in services. I think to imagine such a thing is, to put it politely, nucking futs.

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Normal

I can picture you getting around on this bike here. It’s a shaft-driven bike. It rides comfortable but has the get up when you need to get going. It also has a version that comes with ABS.

I’ve been looking at this one here. This one also has an ABS version. I found an older model that’s selling for a little over $2K. I’m trying to make up my mind whether or not to get it.

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So you think that the “stimulus” saved the states from cutting back services?

It provides some relief, yes.

And if it pains you to call it “stimulus” you could always call it the Recovery Act, and perhaps remember that a third of it was/is in the form of income tax cuts.

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Hillbilly:

You tickle me. Maybe instead of typing SQUIRREL, we should be typing JONES’S or is it JONES’?

LOOK, THERE GO THE JONES’S or JONES’.

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Buck@agon, and who “got” those mortgages for the “bottom half”? The Banks. the banks did not have to lend. AND when people were not borrowing, they lowered rates, which led to real estate/mortgage fraud and speculation. The banks were making money hand over fist during the boom, but when homeowners (mostly the middle class, the Joe the Plumber class) started to actually “make money” the banks (Wall Street) realized it was time to take it back. The double whammy of the 2008 crash was the derivitived mess. Not only did the banks profit from the collapse of the market they engineered, but they profitted by securitizing and selling the bad loans. It used to be that a lender made a loan and held the loan. the interest paid was how the lender (bank) made money. but banks realized they could “inflate” the loans by packaging them (knowing they were bad), and selling them AND buying insurance against the loans (the Goldman Sachs play). as I said, ultimatey it was the (bipartisan) deregulation (Commodities/Futures trasing Act or whatever in the 90’s, but do you think Congress just thought “this is a good idea”? NO, the banks basically wrote the law and lobbied to have it passed. as I said, this isn’t some abberation; it is the American economy in operation. the conversation from production (durable goods) economy to service economny (paper-shuffling and card tricks)

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“Just evil, pure evil.”

No, BS, that’s Dick Cheney.

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AMAZING – even a housing or economic discussion devolves into another Iraq debate…

Really???

I know the war has sapped our economic fortunes, but is American A.D.D. so bad that people have to spend the whole time blabbing about Iraq again?

I guess so. Guess I should go back to work….

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paleo-neo-Carlinist – if you want to stick it to the banks a bit, ending Fan / Fred does just that. They don’t get to make gov’t subsidized loans and collect the spread profit anymore.

Of course, in the short term, we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot too, but in the long run, everyone would be better off.

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it is the American economy in operation. the conversation from production (durable goods) economy to service economny (paper-shuffling and card tricks)

Amen!!!!!!! (I’m guessing you meant conversion instead of conversation, but I understood your point anyway)

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“What, legally, constitutes a declaration of war? Or of being at war?”

Now Paul, you already know that the Constitution only gives the Congress the right to declare war. The Congress passed NO formal declaration of war, they only passed a bill titled: “Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002″

And for that I would have tried them for treason if I had the power. Because they gave to the executive a power that should ONLY be exercised by Congress: the right to declare war.

There have only been 5 formal declarations of war by Congress in our history. Iraq was not one of them.

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SoCo @ 11:09 –

I wanted to print out that post and frame it.

good post paleo.

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Paul,

Jimmy’s awesome.

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“But you are telling me that it was to help the governments of the states.”

some of it was – the infrastructure projects help both the states by providing funding for much-needed projects, the private companies via the contracts.

seeeeemple, no?

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The god awful truth is that no matter who is in power we all might as well buckle up and be ready for one tough long slog for the next decade. Unless the greedy,filthy rich decide to get off their treasure chests and decide to invest in american manufacturing and jobs, deos anyone think thats gonna happen? No matter what, tax the basterds that whopping 3% and let em complain till sunday..

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Bosch
August 27th, 2010
10:56 am

“Did they use the poison gas on the Kurds and Iranians?”

What the frak does that have to do with us?

IS IT PROOF THEY HAD WMD’S? Please say “No”. Gas is so not a killer and that uranium stuff, that’s like a toy pistol.

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“And if it pains you to call it “stimulus” you could always call it the Recovery Act, and perhaps remember that a third of it was/is in the form of income tax cuts.”

Good little liberal is doing a good job of doing the heavy lifting for me, but the “Recovery Act” along with the “Home Buyer Tax Credit” and the “CARS” program did nothing but delay the inevitable. And as other bloggers have pointed out, whatever temporary stimulus was provided by HBTC and CARS has been offset on the back end by a dip in home and car sales. Form my point of view, the money for those programs was wasted.

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Doggone/GA

“you already know that the Constitution only gives the Congress the right to declare war.”

Yup, and I also know it says nothing about what constitutes a declaration. Formal or otherwise.

I also know there’s been a ton of laws and practices over the years, such as the War Powers Act and lots of disagreements between the Executive as commander in chief and the Legislative.

“There have only been 5 formal declarations of war by Congress in our history. Iraq was not one of them.”

Yup. And that’s not to say all the gazillion other events did not constitute ‘being at war.’

Now, add in the current in-vogue thinking that we’re engaged in a law enforcement action with criminals, so can Congress declare war on criminals? and the pond gets real murky!

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Jay
August 27th, 2010
11:06 am

It’s simple, Gov’t. Don’t go personal on your fellow bloggers. Attack their positions, statements, etc., but that’s it.

YES SIR! I do hope it goes both ways!

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GLL – “Last GDP, just revised downward to 1.6%”

you do realize that growth is measured quarter on quarter, don’t you? the fact that we exceeded last quarter’s growth is still positive.

as far as why, as I’ve mentioned twice before – growth was revised down because of exports – which was because of the dollar gaining strength against Sterling (1.5%) and the Euro (9+%) during Q2.

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I’m here 11:13

Operative word is “had” as in, had when?

At the time of the invasion? I think we’ve been over this before – Congressional reports said ‘nope, destroyed years before.”

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Bosch

I kinda prefer “President Carter.”

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GLL/NIF,

“Not losing jobs anymore? Try half a million a month.”

Every month? Since September 2008?

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“Who’s been running Congress the past four years?”

The answer is, of course, the same people who have been running it the last 50 years. Incumbents.

But it is beginning to appear that the “heaven in Washington” so many have enjoyed may be ending. Incumbents in both parties are biting the dust.

You folks need to help yourself for a change. In November vote “NO” on every Incumbent on the ballot. Do you have the guts to do that?

If not, Mr. Bookman will be writing this same column 8 years from now.

If not, you folks will be singing the same sad song you are singing today.

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Bosch – 11:17 – Jimmeh reminds me of my favorite King of the Hill quote, “Bobbeh … if you weren’t my son, I’d hug yeeewww”

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I’m here,

The real world isn’t like the TV show ‘24′ — we weren’t in imminent danger — well, the soldiers we sent over there certainly were, but not us here half way across the world.

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“Not losing jobs anymore? Try half a million a month”

oh, dear. someone else who doesn’t understand the difference between the weekly new filing numbers and the monthly non-farm payrolls numbers.

no, honey, we haven’t been losing a half a million a month.

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Abrazos – 11:21 – screw the golf clap, you get a raucous bowling clap, complete with a woowoo!

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USinUK @ 11:22,

Again, I love it when you show the wingnuts their asses. Sigh……..

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jm, unfortunately, I didn’t read the soothsayer 9:40 post cited by Kamchack (good to have the real Kamchack in attendance). my only comment would be that Palley “nailed it” as opposed to Soothsayer, or at the very least, Soothsayer nailed it by proxy. my point is; the banks (including the Federal Reserve) control Fannie and Freddie. in order for a bubble to be inflated and subsequently popped, the banks have to lobby for favorable legislation. who profits from “debt-financed spending”? not the borrowers. the old economy “grew” based on productivity, which also fueled consumer spending via hard currency (wages). the new economy, for lack of a better word, is fueled by a card trick (making something out of nothing). before the 1980’s homes were not “investments”. you bought a home for 100,000 and maybe after 25 years you sold it for $125,000. the banks inflated this bubble, siphoned off the profits then popped the bubble. it’s that simple, even if I am not as articulare at Tom Palley. All this nonsense about Democrats or Republicans is just window dressing. again, the turd in the punchbowl is; the banks OWN Washington, where Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dumb is occupying the White House OR holds a majority in the House. I won’t lay this exclusively at Reagan’s feet, but contrary to the mantra, in the real world (economy) deficits do matter (in a mortgage or federal budget).

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“Trickle up poverty”. I think I like that.

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Bosch – can’t help it … have become surgically connected to a Bloomberg terminal … I see economic statistics in my sleep

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There’s tooth decay in Washington.

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SoCo,
If you can get that Suzuki for two grand, GO FOR IT!!!

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Well my house payments keep going up and up only because my insurance company going up on their rates to make up for all the people their losing and my taxes are going up because of all the people their losing,i,m losing with no job so you know what,s going to happen next.

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Obama’s economic policies failing???? Duh, you were warned. I however, am not surprised. Mst elementery kids could figure out the policies are idiotic. Keynesean economics has a 100% failure rate. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

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Hootinanny Yum Yum
August 27th, 2010
11:24 am

Bush’s fault.

JOHNNY, we have another BINGO! What’d they win? A BRAIN….

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“A lot of those jobless Nevadans couldn’t relocate for a job even if they found one, not without taking a huge financial hit on their home. That’s a lot of pain and sleepless nights, and cause for a lot of anger as well.”

Jay, I think that says it all. In 2009, I was out of work for 9 months. At month 6, I started looking in other areas of the country because I knew that if I did not find a job soon, I would lose my house here anyway. I am one of the fortunate. I owe as much as my house is worth.

This recession is different in that houses/homeownership has become a jail which has restricted the movement of labor from places of high unemployment to places of lower unemployment. Additionally, underwater homes are like our current government budget deficit: they represents vast sums of money that must be repaid from which the individual will never truly see a benefit. If I lived in CA or NV, and owed $450k on a $200k home… I’d make a business decision and default. I’d be better off starting over… saving my money and living in an apartment for the next 7 years… than to let the underwater amount drag on my finances for the next 30 years.

IMHO, mortgages are no longer sacrosanct. They ceased being so when lending practices were relaxed and when we bailed out those banks that were “too big to fail”. Now, mortgages have to be viewed as a business decision. When the decision ceases to be a good one, cut your losses.

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“This created more wealth, more jobs, more consumers. The service sector feeds off of this but can’t really stand on its own because you can’t really achieve economies of scale in the service sector.”

“Now the supply side is sitting pretty on tons of cash but nowhere to put it. In order to have a market you need a buyer and a seller. There is no indication that demand will grow anytime in the near future.”

On the surface, these seem like insolvable problems. Let us know if you have any solutions at all.

Maybe it’s an oversimplification, but my feeling is that globalization is ultimately to blame. Kind of like the Second Law of Thermodynamics as applied to economies: Heat will flow from areas of high concentration to areas of low concentration unless some kind of heat barrier is in place. For many years following WWII, the US enjoyed an area of concentrated economic success due to several “barriers” in place (not just trade tariffs, though). With the ease of transportation of both materials and information now, those barriers have evaporated.

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Jack
August 27th, 2010
11:25 am

“Trickle up poverty”. I think I like that.

YEP, its’ worked………..NEVER!!!

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Doggone, those security would be lot for the taxpayers in Panama City than in Spain. I guess in the liberal mind, those Secret Svc agents travel by time machine.

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Hootinanny Yum Yum
August 27th, 2010
11:26 am

Yes We Can!

The CAN died with the HOPE for the DOPES!

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“I personally know of three major Atlanta companies that are all planning on hiring like crazy if the congress flips. ”

NIF,

Are they planning on selling alot more stuff? If that’s the only reason they are waiting to hire, then they are stoopid.

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“I know one person who takes food stamps”

ergo ALL liberals are on foodstamps.

wait … wait … I can play this game … I know 3 republican families who used to get food stamps, ergo they ALL used to get food stamps!!

or, even better, I know a republican who is overweight and smokes a cigar, ergo they ALL are overweight and smoke cigars!

(I can play this game all day)

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USinUK@9:54am re: Obama’s “vacations to other countries” Yeah ..level of education exposed . Well they get their knowledge from F News and people like Palin who sees Russia from her backyard !! Brother!

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pat – “Socialistic economic policies are revealing predictable results. The rich are still rich, and the lower class is expanding faster than the universe”

the us has been a socialist country for the last 30 years?

wow. news to me.

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Some People are stupid
August 27th, 2010
11:33 am

Here to help-

So what was ther reason for invading Iraq????
Ur logic is they had wmd, yet other countries have wmd’s?

Just asking cause like 90% of your post, they make no sense….I thought you were suppose to be playing with those rich 1% stock owners…or running your ad firm or something…

Thanks for your concern. I will be expecting a check from you, boss! Other countries are not ran by nut crazies like Iran. Well NK is and we still have that issue to deal with real soon. You ready for that, cause Obama isn’t!

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“Any bets that say we won’t be out of it by Christmas if Congress and the Senate flip?”

yeah. unemployment will suddenly drop to 4% by the end of December, housing will be on the up, and foreclosures will decline.

stop. my sides. yer killin’ me.

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Some people – 11:38 – I know, but I still like to shine a light on it.

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
11:37 am

“OH, do you want the “REAL” numbers. Can you say “HIGHER”.”

yay! I’ll play. what are the REAL numbers. do tell us what the REAL numbers are (and where you get them)

Just for you suckA!
Official Unemployment 14.5M, ACTUAL Unemployment 25.3M. The first number is what Obama says, the second number is “reality”. Even you can see the difference but maybe not!

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“There will be a demand as soon as the hiring starts.”

but they won’t start hiring until there’s demand.

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“There will be a demand as soon as the hiring starts. ”

So, are their products gonna suddenly be all the rage then?

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I’m here – “Official Unemployment 14.5M, ACTUAL Unemployment 25.3M”

yes, it’s called the difference between people who are out of work and looking for a job and people who are out of work and who aren’t.

it’s a measure the DoL has always used.

and?

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Some People are stupid
August 27th, 2010
11:38 am

USinUK -

You asked here to help to post facts….you will never get a response…

DO you have a point or do you just like eating your words?

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SoCom

I guess it depends partly on where you live. I’ve known more than a few who, through no fault of their own, got in a pretty bad way. Just don’t want anything bad happening to you.

Doggone/GA

[[“Being at war” and DECLARING war are not the same thing. It’s more than a little like the difference between “war” and “War”

Bottom line is, if Congress declares war – as CIC the President is tasked with carrying out that war. Congress did not declare war…they authorized the CIC to make that decision. The cowards.]]

So we can be at war without a declaration of war? As far as “Congress did not declare war” I go back to my original assertion – the Constitution is silent about what constitutes a declaration. And that means the word ‘declaration’ doesn’t have to appear.

I’m here

“At the time of the invasion? I think we’ve been over this before”

Yes, we have

” – Congressional reports said ‘nope, destroyed years before.”

“NOPE”

Have you a source? Nerve agents, any biological or blood agents, were destroyed. Uranium? Not a weapon, it’s a component. One doesn’t sprinkle uranium/yellow cake over a field to kill people. And having one element does not constitute an active nuclear weapons acquisition program.

So… source for “Nope”?

Some people are stupid

“China has uranium and posion gas, should we go to war with them. So does Japan, and even Canada.”

Source for Canada and Japan? You may want to check the Chemical Weapons Convention list of signatories.

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/cwcsig

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
11:40 am

Some people – 11:38 – I know, but I still like to shine a light on it.

CHECK out iTunes…. Blinded By The Light

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Sorry to tell some of you out there but all areas of the earning spectrum have been hit by the housing downturn. This isn’t something that can be blamed on the poor becuse they didn’t have a home to fall behind on. This can be blamed on the many so-called educated people who bought a house, then a car, got suckered into opening lines of credit to buy big flat screens, finance nights to eat out and many other extras to make themselves “seem” as though they were living the high life.

In the end this is a failure of American good sense, not common. If it were common everyone would have it and we wouldn’t have this mess. The fix has come to many and the necessary behaviours have been thrust upon them demanding great urgency. Will the leesons be learned?

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I think this blog is an admition that the conservatives were right all along and the liberal are just bitter name callers. Brings a tear to the eye.

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AmVet,
It’s easy to be brave when there’s all that cyber space between you…

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“Typical liberal. The economy is driven by business, not the government”

who is talking about the government?

I’m talking consumers – which make up 70% of GDP

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Here to help-
Your name is a tell tell sign! How’s that mirror?

Once again…another classic…seriously though…do you run an advertising agency…I have clients who are looking to expand

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USinUK
August 27th, 2010
11:48 am

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.toc.htm

here ya go – have a browse – all the data you can shake a stick at

Government kook-aid. At least your a switch drinker. Living in the real world is so not cool.
Like all these unpopular wars. Anyone ever seen a popular war?

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HDB at 11:42,

Thanks for breaking it down yet again!! Our economy will not turn around until we start MAKING stuff here and SELLING it both here and overseas. We keep hearing that the jobs we lost overseas are not coming back. Okay, then. Now what? (1) Change whatever government policies made it more profitable to outsource than stay, and (2) Invent NEW *bleep* to make here! So what if it’s expensive in the beginning? Quality wins the long-term, and truly we do NOT need all the cheap plastic Chinese crap that’s sold in our stores now.

The top 3% are wailing that their tax cuts are about to expire. Why not incent them to invest in new industries here instead of socking their cash away in offshore accounts and foreign investment loopholes? WHY are there manufacturing plants sitting empty in Georgia? WHY can’t defense contractors convert a portion of their efforts toward energy production?

We have resources. We have people who need jobs. If the “haves” would stop thinking of their own short-term goals and start thinking of our collective long-term goals, we could turn this *bleep* around in this decade. But in order to do that, people have to stop looking at anyone who exercises a little forward thinking as “the enemy.”

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The heads of American Business are waiting. they have lots and lots of money. They could start the economy right now if they started spending that money.

So, you’re admitting that the businesses are holding up the country until they’re sure that their prostitutes in Congress don’t rebel and require them to actually do some good for the country instead of just continuing to let them loot and pillage without penalty…

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NIF,

Since your back, please, stay off the juice, blogging late at night and threatening the host — and have a good lunch.

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What defines a WMD runs the gamut, depending. There’s strategic, military, civilian. HECK! Kofi Annan defined them as small arms, but not those that could be dropped from a plane, but a plane IS.

It’s amazing! Something to be said for that old adage…..too many cooks spoil the broth.

As the government grows, so does con-fusion.

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BTW, Love Luckovich today!

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and with that, I’m off for a 3-day bank holiday weekend!!

have a good one!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx9br5ISRpo

my favorite REM song – and the best anthem for a late summer weekend …

see you Tues!

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Normal
August 27th, 2010
11:57 am

BTW, Love Luckovich today!

Another bigot cartoon. Try You Tube, it’s much better and where most Democrats get their news.

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Have a good weekend USinUK! And I’m out til later…………

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Good little liberal-

The recession started in 2008
I have asked this several times…name one law or statute passed by the democratically controlled congress that caused the recession.

I know you are looking for a scapegoat but seriously, you give congress and the president both too much credit in good times and bad times…The government does contribute to the state of the economy some, but the vast state of the economy is based on the private sector. The government cannot create any meaningful jobs

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There is nothing holding back the economy but the democratically ran federal government.

Interesting analysis. Please do expound.

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ObamaJUSTICE!

In another disgraceful act of the Obama Department of Social Justice, the Washington Post reports that the feds are “shelving” prosecution of a major USS Cole bombing suspect at Gitmo. Why? Because of bad optics.

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@@

{What defines a WMD runs the gamut, depending. There’s strategic, military, civilian. HECK! Kofi Annan defined them as small arms, but not those that could be dropped from a plane, but a plane IS.

It’s amazing! Something to be said for that old adage…..too many cooks spoil the broth.]]

It’s like ‘terrorist.’ There’s a generally-accepted term, then others want to gain a political advantage so they redefine it or greatly expand it.

I believe the currently-accepted by most definition is a nonconventional weapon, a single one of which can cause significant loss of live or damage over a wide area, and does so through chemical, biological, or nuclear means.

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I’m Here From The Government And I’m Here To Help

August 27th, 2010

You owe $120,500 to the FEDS. Pay up SuckA’s!

———————————————————————–

where’s your receipt?

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The fix is to let people lose their homes. Most of the ones who are going to do it, are people who knew they couldn’t afford them anyway, took money out of them to invest in other things and lost it, in other words, they gambled and lost. Why should taxpayers who were conservative and careful, and bought homes within their means have to bail these people out? If the government had butted out and let these people have the consequences of their actions we would be way past this “crisis” now.

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Doggone/GA

“so..in your book an “authorization” of “use of force” is a declaration of war, then? Sorry, in MY book it isn’t.”

I neither said nor implied that. I said the Constitution give power to Congress to declare war. It doesn’t say how it’s done. I also said how they do it doesn’t have to include the word ‘declare.’ I also said there’s been legislation to address that (War Powers Act) and many ongoing battles between the Executive and Legislative branches. The Executive is granted extraordinary power by the Constitution in his role as commander in chief of the armed forces.

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Luckovich IS good today.

So’s his opposite comrade-in-ink:

http://www.investors.com/EditorialCartoons/Cartoon.aspx?id=545238

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HDB: “Second Law of Thermo is similar to osmosis….but what needs to be done here is to increase the osmotic pressure so that those with less can receive more!!”

Matti:”Our economy will not turn around until we start MAKING stuff here and SELLING it both here and overseas.”

I share your sentiments on the surface, but artificial ways to stop the natural “economic osmosis” are still subject to “The Law of Unintended Consequences”, a concept that Obama an the Dems keep overlooking. Tariffs don’t work, and what pat said earlier still holds true:

“Socialistic economic policies are revealing predictable results. The rich are still rich, and the lower class is expanding faster than the universe. After a century of examples where this stuff has always failed, every time, why keep trying it….”

The recent collapse of Greece proves that again.

At any rate, thanks for putting your thinking caps on. Maybe it’s just me, but the Blog Blame Game with no analysis to back it up just doesn’t cut it for me.

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“How many (names) have you posted under?”

I think earlier speculation that NIF is back is confirmed as well by his signature posts.

Though jay would have to confirm, I think “landy” who has rejoined the night crew used to post under a different name as well. She was the chick who was busted for plagiarizing by RW, though I can’t recall her former blog name as well.

Must be too boring to keep the same name for some……

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How ’bout this, Bruno:

Legalize hemp, grow it and make environmentally-friendly products out of it right here in Georgia. Keep the drug variety illegal (only because the dinosaurs and big pharm will never agree to rational thinking), but make it a misdemeanor with a ten dollar fine for possession. If a farmer is caught with 50 acres of the tall green fragrance, it’s not destroyed, but he has four months to pay a per/pound fee to his county, which then uses the revenues to improve schools, roads, the county hospital, and pay police and firefighters. Hmmm…. PRACTICAL solutions right here at home!

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@@

By most people who dealt with such things before it got into the general population’s consciousness before the Iraq/9-11 thing.

Heck, even for a time biologicals, chemicals and blood agents were listed as comparable as nukes in how we viewed them and would result in a nuclear response if anyone used them on us.

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“Thanks for making my point. They call themselves Americans and they hold out on America. They could invest in job creation, sacrifice short term, and succeed again long term, but they choose to be cold-hearted prudes.”

Matti–Are you sure it’s all due to prudishness?? Could the climate of fear created by Obama and the Dems have anything to do with it??

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Doggone/GA

Some make the case that if Congress authorized the President to commit the military in action against another nation to overthrow the government, and repeatedly, year after year, authorizes funds to pursue that objective,

it’s essentially the same thing and only a matter of semantics for political purposes.

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There’s no quick fix, but a good start would be to stop the Idiot Messiah from funking things up further with his fascist power grabs, obscene spending on political payoffs, and unsustainable growth in government and entitlements.

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alot

actually I work pretty hard, I’m an employee and an employer, I shop and cook and clean and paint and mow, I have been putting away a little every week for 30 years….Mr. G and I will have a safe and comfortable retirement – but not luxurious.

As Paul Krugman put it way back in 2007:

Where’s My Trickle?, by Paul Krugman, Commentary, NY Times: Four years ago the Bush administration, exploiting the political bounce it got from the illusion of success in Iraq, pushed a cut in capital-gains and dividend taxes through Congress. It was an extremely elitist tax cut even by Bush-era standards: the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center says that more than half of the tax breaks went to Americans with incomes of more than $1 million a year.

Needless to say, administration economists produced various misleading statistics designed to convey the opposite impression, that the tax cut mainly went to ordinary, middle-class Americans. But they also insisted that the benefits of the tax cut would trickle down — that lower tax rates on the rich would do great things for the economy, helping everyone.

he continues

The absence of any gains for workers in the years since the 2003 tax cut is a pretty convincing refutation of trickle-down theory. So is the fact that the economy had a much more convincing boom after Bill Clinton raised taxes on top brackets. It turns out that when you cut taxes on the rich, the rich pay less taxes; when you raise taxes on the rich, they pay more taxes — end of story. …

and more

What we’ve had since 2003, however, is an economic expansion that looks good if not great by the usual measures, but which has passed most Americans by.

NOW…

after a lifetime of hard work and modest living….having taken a 6 figure hit in our assets because of the failed fiscal policies of the supply siders I’m feeling a wee bit miffed.

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I’m Here From The Government And I’m Here To Help

August 27th, 2010
11:58 am

My, my, my…another reblel without a clue…

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Good little liberal

August 27th, 2010
12:32 pm

“The democrats declared war on American Business. But liberals whine when American Business fights back.”

Methinks you’re wrong! American BUSINESS declared war on labor by OFFSHORING manufacturing capabilities; American BUSINESS declared war by hiring undocumented aliens to depress the wage scale! American BUSINESS declared war by requesting a drop in corporate taxes while they offshored jobs in the US…….

…and you support that???

Bruno — if you really want the economy to grow fast, increase the marginal tax rate back to what it was in 1941: 81%….with the minimum income being affected is $5M!! Check the statistics for middle class growth at that rate!!

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HDB

August 27th, 2010
12:41 pm

HDB, Good call!

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Lil’ Barry Bailout August 27th, 2010
12:39 pm

1) Tax policy: Why grant the wealthy a marginal tax decrease when the middle class is getting screwed. The middle class was first affected by the decrease in marginal tax rates in 1982…with a tax rate of 50% and income over $85,600 was hit! If that’s not middle class….what is?? That tax squeeze made the middle class irrelevant!!
Proof: http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

2) Unemployment: Why did the Republicans deny the extension of unemployment benefits to those that needed it?? In the preponderance of casess, those payment went to mortgage/rent payments……

Those two are enough!!

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Lil’ Barry Bailout August 27th, 2010
12:39 pm

To add more: Reagan did NOT index AMT (Alternate Minimum Tax)…so the middle class was caught in the trap he set!! That’s why the income level for the greatest marginal tax rate was $85,600!!!

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Paul:

Well, everybody and their brother has enhanced the recipe with their own herbs and spices. Let’s see…

Without pushing my way into everyone’s kitchen, the Civil Defense definition salts it up with this:

Any explosive, incendiary, poison gas, bomb, grenade, or rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces. Prosecutions for possession of, include:

pipe bombs, shoe bombs, cactus needles coated with botulin toxin.

Cactus needles? Why not sewing needles…pine needles…thorns from the WH’s rose bush garden?

I’m just methin’ wit’cha, Paul. I will say, I’m a firm believer in simplifiy, simplify, simplify. Less opportunity for mistakes and political shenanigans.

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Good Little Liberal

Soros? OMG!!!

Scaife…

Olin…

Coors…

David Koch….

Charles Koch….

Bet you never heard of them either. Fox watcher I’d guess.

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kayaker

I think you are a bit wet with some of those stats, I’m pretty sure the estate tax does not start at one million and that it is an urban myth about farmers being forced to sell by it. Also, less than 2% of small business will be affected by going back to the previous tax rates. Anyhow, that tax rate sure didn’t slow down the 90’s did it?

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Good Little Liberal

But they are OK borrowing from China for tax cuts for folks with lots more than you.

More of that trickle down nonsense.

You may want to be a serf, but not me.

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The economy is poised for a robust recovery if the Senate will remove the block on the bill to put make more money available to small business.
The lubrication of our economic system is money. Without money available to small business to hire workers to produce/market their products, the demand will continue to falter because there is very little disposable income in most households.
It makes one wonder if this squeeze is not a cynical Repub ploy to get elected in November.

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GLL

Know any history of the Koch Brothers and their family?

OOPs….again probably not.

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Jackie

I think it’s part of the plan to obstruct.

Foe them the Party and the power is far more important than the people

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Jackie

It all boils down to politics.

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@Good little liberal

Do you have a printing press in your basement? If not, it is obvious the credit clout that anyone other than the US government has with China is sorely lacking.

In answer to your question, money (the medium of exchange for goods and services) must come from a source that can supply enough to stimulate economic activity.

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And “good little liberal,” I have to ask–do you expect people to reply civilly to you with a screen name like that?

Really?

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Good little liberal August 27th, 2010
12:54 pm

“Do you have any problem with Obama being supported by one of the world’s leading crooks?”

Most of the CROOKS (if you want to go there) were primarily supporters of the GOP….Ken Lay(Enron), Bernard Ebbers (WorldCom), Bernie Madoff….Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers……..

“They didn’t want yet more money to be borrowed from China ”

Who started the borrowing spree?? Wasn’t Obama!! Plus….since the stimulus hasn’t been spent, when it’s needed to spur the economy more, all that has to be done is the allocation!! Republicans would’ve continued to say NO if Obama had to go back to Congress for additional stimulus spending! Better to keep what isn’t spent in reserve!!

“The problem with a blog is that all that crap you hear from the mainstream media can be instantly proven misleading.”

Including FOX News…the greatest purveyor of misinformation yet!! If one compares multiple media sources, the truth can be determined!! Those who primarily listen to FOX are myopic to only one viewpoint…and many times, they vote against their own best interest!!

Bruno August 27th, 2010
12:53 pm

The marginal tax rate didn’t drop under 90% until 1964…and the minimum income affected was $200K….if we go back to the rates of 1941, watch the middle class expand!! THAT’S what is needed!! If the middle class becomes extinct, watch how much MORE screaming would happen(…people crying about 50% who don’t pay taxes…..small business gets screwed again……etc!). As if we’re not getting that already!!

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The new taxes next year will fix everything. With less money I can buy more and create more jobs for working people ????????/
Not, no new car, no home improvement, no vacation, no movies, no tips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tax the snot out of us and you have total control !!!!!!!!

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GLL

Go for it….but be brave about it and show us how democrats have done versus republicans for say the last 50 or 100 years…..

GOP screws the economic pooch every time they get their hands on power.

and again we have to clean up YOUR mess.

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@Good little liberal

Your approval of my response to your question indicates that you are countermanding your own argument.

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GLL

you have just lost the debate.

Please change your name another time and start over.

too funny.

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@Good little liberal

Huh????
Point out the area of my confusion.

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Jackie

Then they cry about our country being destroyed.

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Good Little Liberal-

I am actually waiting on you topost those graphs of democratic vs republican control of congress and the state of the economy..
Why not also show the deficit, national debt

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You can’t discuss or debate with someone whose only purpose in his day (probably his life) is to spread his nasty disposition to others.

As with all angry, impotent little pests, the best thing to do is simply block the number.

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I know it’s Karl, but hey….

By overselling the stimulus before its passage in 2009 and exaggerating its benefits with layer upon layer of slippery half-truths in 2010, Mr. Obama has made voters angrier. This is not America’s summer of recovery; it is a summer of economic discontent that will ensure that Democrats take a pounding in the midterm elections.

just another instance of President Obama shooting off at the mouth before his brain is engaged. We kinda expect it from Joe, but I thought Obama was smarter.

I was wrong!

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