Housing market, economy still deep in a post-binge hangover

Y’all miss me yet?

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For those who decried the stimulus…..the results speak for themselves!! One has to SPEND money to MAKE money!! Now..if the BANKS would start lending again…..

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Imagine how much more quickly the hangover would have been cured if the GOP had not been so damn obstructionist?

The binge was their fault as is the pace of the recovery.

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jay, my posts are disappearing. Is there a reason why?

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“Atlanta is not among them.”

Imagine that — hmmmm. I wonder if it’s all the dealing between GOP city commissioners and developers who gave them deals to turn a blind eye on responsible building practices and zoning. Of course, that’s just my opinion and conspiracy theory at large.

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the fact is, unless there is a new industry like the computer/internet industry from the 1980s/ 1990s, we’re looking at low growth, low income growth for a generation.

people are working longer, so there are fewer slots for young people entering the workforce. fewer entry positions means that their entry income will be lower.

as for housing, the US had a glut of housing in the 2000s – you need to have negative new house construction for a while to get your inventory back down to a manageable level.

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I have yet to hear of a constructive solution from either the GOP or the Tea Baggers. Nothing but complaining.

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The Obama/Biden “Summer of Recovery” continues….

BIDEN: ‘We’re moving in right direction’…
Worries about recovery deepen…
‘Hindenburg Omen’ creator exits stock market…
Economy in ‘Depression, Not Recession’…
Dow Faces ‘Bouncy Ride to 5,000′…
Typical Slow Summer — or Something Darker?
Drop in Home Sales Renews Pricing Fears…
Investors Scatter to Safety…

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UnU

Even with new industry, we’re going to be moving at a turtle’s pace. I think a slow steady growth over a longer period is what we need. We’ve tried the rollercoaster economy and that didn’t work out too well. As the old parable goes, slow and steady wins the race.

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“you need to have negative new house construction for a while to get your inventory back down to a manageable level.”

On a report on NPR yesterday they attributed at least some of the housing numbers to existing home owners who are postponing a move to a new house. People who might have moved in the past just aren’t right now.

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What we need to do is borrow 36 billion a year from China for the next 8 years so we can extend the Bush tax cuts.

Actually, I am waiting for someone to say “lets cut -fill in the blank- programs $36 billion a year and then extend the Bush tax cuts”.

I have a feeling that I will be waiting a long time.

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SoCo – I think it would depend what the industry was – but, we need something that will create jobs IN the US, rather than create revenues for existing corporations who outsource to Mumbai and Shenzhen

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Sen. Baucus (author of Obamacare) admits to not reading the bill!

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Thanks, jay.

A grave conservative, Walter.

Who Cares About Our Future?

In my opinion, it takes a special form of callousness and disregard for the welfare of future generations of Americans for today’s senior citizens to fight against reform. Nobody’s talking about abolition of federal senior programs. We must accept that serious mistakes were made and we must take compassionate corrective action. But what the heck! As I said in my “What Handouts to Cut?” column, “Both today’s politicians and seniors will be dead so why should they make sacrifices now to prevent an economic calamity decades off into the future?”

…and that same “special form of callousness and disregard for the welfare of future generations” is exhibited by those who have no problem with piling Obama’s spending extravaganza onto our children.

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HDB
August 25th, 2010
9:43 am

For those who decried the stimulus…..the results speak for themselves!! One has to SPEND money to MAKE money!!

Dumbest POST of the YEAR! NOT OUR GOVERNMENT! They print money to spend money. Name one investment the Government has made and showed a ROI of 10% or more?

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Doggone – “People who might have moved in the past just aren’t right now.”

our housing analyst here explained it thusly: the only people asking banks for loans are the folks they don’t want to lend to. the folks they DO want to lend to are boosting their savings, not borrowing.

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Granny Godzilla aka CT, How’s the beaches?

Imagine if the demo’s had listen to the GOP in 2002. This mess would have never happen.

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Peadawg

August 25th, 2010
9:53 am

Horse feathers, Peadawg. The Republican Party has constantly refused to work with the Democrats, and the Democrats don’t really control a thing, thanks to the “the Republicans in Democrat clothing” like Lieberman, et al.

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The sum of all the deficits from 2003 through 2010 is $4.73 trillion. Subtract the entire Iraq War cost and you still have a sum of $4.02 trillion

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Imagine how much more quickly the hangover would have been cured if the GOP had not been so damn obstructionist?

The Porkulous bill that’s being credited for this “amazing” recovery was passed in February 2009 and signed into law on February 17th, That’s some awfully weak obstructionism since Obama only took office on January 20, 2009.

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The Leg Lamp is a “major award” much like Cynthia Tucker’s Pulitzer and Obama’s Nobel.

August 25th, 2010
10:01 am
Obama & Hillary ‘talk’ while Iran arms for nuclear war…

OH GAWD! It’s the boogie man again!!! Run!

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The Godzillas understand about the Bumpus’s dogs…..

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“LOL ROFLMAO Thanks for proving me right”

you do realize that all the assets that were used as collateral to secure the loans have had returns > than the 10% you asked?

no, evidently you didn’t.

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“Yes, that was mentioned too…as well as they are paying off existing debts.”

yep … all of which is good for future growth, provided that today’s economic lesson doesn’t go down the memory hole …

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Speaking of excessive spending…

“I love how our opponents have nitpicked some of the research money that we have given to NIH. It reflects that they know nothing about science,” Biden said in announcing a report about the $100 billion from the stimulus package being spent on energy, science and health research.

“In the National Institutes of Health, we have one of the greatest assemblages of doctors and scientists in the world,” Biden said. “Through the Recovery Act, we’re giving them the tools to make the most profound innovation of all: improving and extending health and human life, while bringing down the cost in medicine.”

Tools, Joe????

NIH has funded various grants on unusual studies such as $60,000 to study Hookah smoking among Jordanian college students; $314,613 to study a supposed increase in family violence after viewing of NFL games; $1.4 million to study the “social milieu” of male prostitutes in Vietnam’s Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi; $181,406 to study the sex drive of Japanese quail and $410,624 on the aforementioned study, which involved teaching Chinese meditation to cocaine addicts.

I love me some Joe.

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Normal – you’re thinking A Christmas Carol … they’re talking about Ralphie in The Christmas Story …

you’ll put your eye out.

that Christmas Story.

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My neighbor has a leg lamp like the one in the movie. I’m soooooooo jealous.

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USinUK

NOT Exactly but keep drinking the kook-aid. Try some ICE, I have heard it helps the taste!

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“NOT Exactly but keep drinking the kook-aid. Try some ICE, I have heard it helps the taste!”

yeah. exactly.

sorry you don’t like the truth. it does tend to get in the way of a good tantrum.

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Fannie, Freddie, CRA, ACORN—It’s all their fault!

Just thought I would get that out of the way on the first page.

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Granny Godzilla aka MNGL aka ctucker,

Are you going the VI parade on 9/1? How’s the vacation going? You sunburned yet?

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Jay is this change working for you and your neighborhood?

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WAR: U.S. Weighs Expanded Strikes in Yemen…

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“The people who are in the driver’s seat to push recovery are too scared to do anything because of “perceived” government rules and regulations.”

Last night, Road Scholar challenged me (us) to come up with some new ideas to help the economy. There are a lot of things we can’t change quickly, such as the oversupply of houses on the market, but I think Obama and the Dems could be doing a LOT more to create a positive environment for business. IMO, they have created an atmosphere of fear for business in the form of both new regulations (new credit card and banking rules) and requirements (health care). I can’t blame companies for sitting on their cash and not expanding until the legislative free fall settles down.

You can hate on Reagan and GWB all you want, but they both helped set us on a road to economic recovery following bad times through positive leadership. Whatever good qualities Obama may have, leadership isn’t one of them.

If only they had been too scared to jump into the canyon of greed, we might not even be having this discussion.

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USinUK,
Oh, that one…hated it! Parts were too close to home…

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USinUK,

All of the 17 large banks have repaid their TARP investments while less than 10% of the smaller banks have done so, and about 15% of the small banks have missed a payment.

http://bailout.propublica.org/list/dividends

All seem to be well under a 10% return. Some have yet to pay anything. You wanna try your BS again?

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USinUK@6:58 am (from the thread downstairs)… errr…. nice list as well! Never saw that site…thanks for posting it.

I didn’t read all the posts yet…but with regards to housing… I know HDB posted above that banks need to start lending again. Some are…and even in the “speculative” real estate market again. Smart? I’m not so sure. Truth be told… I had to go to my friend’s studio a few days ago which is located in his house in Country Club of the South… while going down Old Alabama I noticed that in a few of the smaller “high end” subdivisions are putting up “spec” homes again. Smart? Probably not…probably a REALLY bad move with so many homes currently on the market. I mean it’s “good” that a handful of builders and their subcontractors are getting work (which WILL help the economy)…it’s good that building supply co’s are moving some inventory…I’m not sure how much that helps manufacturers of building supplies because most places still are not ordering too much and simply selling from what they have (and most likely not ordering much as far as NEW supplies)… what happens if those homes linger? I mean…my own thought is that it’s “Wishful Thinking” on behalf of the builders…but most of all the banks loaning the money. Unless it’s the builders going into their own pockets…I can’t see how taking the risk of building MORE new homes in a market over-saturated with homes both old and new (that never sold) is a GOOD thing. Short term good for those back to work building those homes…but it will only prolong things in terms of the housing market rebounding if banks continue to invest in real estate. I mean did they not learn ANYTHING????

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Marine General: Obama giving ’sustenance’ to Taliban…

Says most Marines don’t want gay roommates…

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The Leg Lamp is a “major award” much like Cynthia Tucker’s Pulitzer and Obama’s Nobel.

August 25th, 2010
10:27 am

But “Obamacare” hasn’t even started yet? Maybe “for profit” health care is the real culprit.

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What I know about economics could be put in an ant’s navel with room left over for the Vienna Boys’ Choir. That at least gives me something in common with Imam Hoover Øbungle and the Blog Boyars employed by the ajc. But I do remember Ross Perot saying that if NAFTA passed that whissing sound you’re hearing is jobs leaving America.It’s simple. Manufacturing jobs go where the labor costs are cheapest if there are no tariffs on imported goods that means anywhere but the USA. So the only jobs we have plenty of are bloggers, doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs (whoops, make that Native American Ethnic Group Executives). Of course, JB never mentions NAFTA because it had bipartisan support and the only democrat he would ever criticize is Zell Miller.

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Obama giving ’sustenance’ to Taliban…

Impeachable offense!

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Gordon – Since the beginning of the year, private industry has seen positive job growth in the monthly reports with the strongest gains in manufacturing

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Housing isn’t coming back anytime soon unless we import a bunch of immigrants with money. We’ve got too many homes and not enough people who can pay mortgages. High supply / low demand = low prices.

If we want more jobs and to solve the housing situation. We need an influx of people, and to increase our manufacturing base. A better solution to secure prosperity might be allowing a huge tax credit for high achievers (Combined Income 150K or more) with 3 or more kids and start pushing children among the top levels of society. The price is so high, that the most intelligent people are having the fewer and fewer kids. That’s bad for society in general as its lowering the potential tax base in the future.

If we want another baby boomer style economy, we need another baby boom.

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“As U.S. banks have returned to health following the worst financial crisis in decades”

USinUK, have you checked the stock prices on the banks the past few days?? BAC just set a new one year low, and Citi isn’t too far behind.

I probably panicked a little early, but I sold my CSCO stock this AM for a small loss in anticipation of more bad economic news this week. If I hadn’t been so greedy, I could have realized a substantial profit by selling it last Thursday. That greed will get you every time…..

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Saul,
I’m just waiting for the other shoe to fall. There will be another collapse and it won’t be pretty, but prices should reach a low water mark. Then let the Government step in with another FDR type employment system, get people to work upgrading the railway systems, roads and bridges, canals and dams, etc. With men working again and housing more affortdable, we will see better days again…but it’s going to get painful.
And it seems we never learn…

http://www.thehistorybox.com/ny_city/panics/panics_article1a.htm

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what did that amount work out to be for a job saved or created? looks to be around 180k per?

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A libs worst nightmare..

Quayle wins GOP slugfest in AZ 3rd Cong. District

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The solution is coming on Nov 2. We’re going to put adults in charge of the country.

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I’m here – what part of “average earned taxpayers 10.3% in annualized returns” eludes you?

that’s why they call it AVERAGE. some returns are 0.6%. some are 25%.

you asked what program has earned us a ROI >10%.

I answered it and have shown you evidence.

you were wrong. man up and deal with it.

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“I do remember Ross Perot saying that if NAFTA passed that whissing sound you’re hearing is jobs leaving America.It’s simple. Manufacturing jobs go where the labor costs are cheapest if there are no tariffs on imported goods that means anywhere but the USA.”

Thin Guy–I voted for Ross Perot twice, even after it became apparent that he had a loose screw or two. My thinking back then, and now, is that we need someone with business experience leading the parade, not a career lawyer or politician. In my book, Obama was the worst possible choice last November.

Having said that, tariffs aren’t the answer. As another blogger pointed out a few months ago, they help no one, and the “winner” is the one it hurts the least.

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This is more proof that Obama’s socilist centralized economic planning has ruined the economy in only 18 months.

Hey liberals, aren’t you regretting your sad vote for Obama?

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jt’s right!

Government was the problem on this one. Stupid DC and federal policies created this disaster by building the crumbly foundation upon which to expand home ownership.

The liberal in me said it was the right thing to do. I was wrong!

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What people don’t understand, and probably never will, is that the recession/depression, are critically necessary to clear out the bad debt and high prices. In the crisis of 1920-21, Warren Harding let the markets correct themselves. Despite economic numbers that were worse than the numbers at the beginning of the Depression, the economy corrected itself and took off on a sound footing. All the stupid Keynesian economic measures that Bush and Obama have taken (much like the stupid Keynesian measures that Hoover and FDR took back in 1929-1944) are only preventing the bad debt from being liquidated, the prices from falling to appropriate levels, the unsupportable business, banks, and others from going bankrupt, and the economy from getting back to a sound footing. Instead they are prolonging the misery while bailing out their friends. They are essentially reinflating the bubble with worthless money and debt. When the real collapse comes – and it will – the fall will be even greater and the misery and suffering far more profound than if they had just let the problem work itself out.

By the way, I am only saying the same things that the Austrians (the intelligent economists) have been saying since the first Depression. They have been proven right with every bubble and recession and they will be proven right again. http://www.mises.org if you would like to get a sound education in correct and sound economic principles.

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So we are touting this as a sucess?

Do the math!

with the best estimates of creating( a person getting a job who had none) jobs is at 3.3 million.

that cost us 819 billion….

So hooray, we spent $248,181.82 per job!!!!!!

how many of ya”ll out there make $248,181.82 a year?

Those must have been some really dangerous or highly skilled jobs to demand $248,181.82.

If you think that is a sucess i bet you also did really well in personal finance or any college level business course.

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For major MSAa, is it true that Atlanta is the biggest year-over-year housing loser at -17.4%?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/24/8-cities-where-housing-pr_n_692631.html

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Normal,

If the government puts all these men to work again as you suggested, whom do you think will be paying them? The Feds? You mean “us” as in”taxpayers”. More “stimulus”? More debt?

I think it is about time that people recognize one meaning of independence is taking care of themselves and not depending on others. . When did we lose the meaning of independence?

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Anyone listen to Boortz this morning about what some of “your” tax money is going for?

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The chart indicates that for every individual that
bought a house in 2004, 2005 and 2006 some
individual no longer owns a house in 2007.
The houses are still there so evidently a
non-individual owns the house. Are they
rented, vacant, demolished(land still there)?
The former owners are living somewhere and
paying rent or living with relatives or homeless.
No economic drain anywhere. It wasn’t people
who panicked this depression, It was the banks.

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Let me be clear…hairplugs cause delusion, and that’s a big f**kin deal.

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“At this same time in Reagan’s first term…he was dealing with the same bad poll numbers that Obama is dealing with.”

Saul, Poll numbers are the least of my concerns. Putting aside comparisons of which recessions were worse upon taking office (and yes, Bush was facing a recession in Jan, 2001 following the tech bubble bursting), the difference between Reagan, Bush and Obama can be summed up in one word: leadership. Obama promised his main focus would be the economy, then he turned around and enacted three major pieces of legislation which have had a dampering effect on business. I even thought his talk of “keeping his boot on the throat of BP” showed a tremendous lack of maturity and good judgment.

As far “doing something about health care”, he certainly did–unfortunately it was the worst possible solution to what ails our system–high prices caused by the over-reliance on the third-party billing system.

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It’s all Bush’s fault!! Come on 2012. Hopefully, we can get this Muslim out of office before he tears America down.

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thomas

“$248,181.82 per job”

you fell for that one?

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Dusty

August 25th, 2010
10:48 am

Of course. We share the good times, we share the bad times. It worked before and it will work again.

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could someone please hand John 10:53 his sign?

kthx

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Scout…you mean Boortz is taking a break from talking about his friggin’ plane? If Neil has a “plan” to fix the economy…tell him to run for office and stop ridiculing those IN office. It’s an easy job he has…yet “no real world experience” in fixing the economy. Just another talking bobble head who complains and points fingers while not ever having the “balls” to put himself in the shoes of those he rants on and complains about.

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Normal – 10:56 – doncha know, there ARE jobs, but people don’t want to work since they’re getting rich on unemployment benefits.

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A free Econ 101 lesson for the libs…The demand for housing (and therefore prices) were driven up artificially by the government (Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac) guaranteeing loans for people that had no business buying houses in the first place, and/or people buying bigger and more expensive houses than they should have. Unless someone comes up with a way to re-introduce this ARTIFICAL demand, prices aren’t coming back up. And that’s a good thing, because housing needs to be affordable. But now we’re moving into Lesson #2, which most of you aren’t intellectually ready to tackle yet, but I’ll give you a teaser…your primary residence is an EXPENSE, not an investment, and rising home prices don’t do anything but drive up the cost of taxes, insurance, and everything else associated with home ownership.

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Saul Good

August 25th, 2010
10:51 am

Saul,
I hear you. I’ve been on that train…love the Bar…

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The private sector creates a new job with 10-50k of capital. That’s ok- keep believing the gov’t is the best path to economic salvation.

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“All the stupid Keynesian economic measures that Bush and Obama have taken (much like the stupid Keynesian measures that Hoover and FDR took back in 1929-1944) are only preventing the bad debt from being liquidated, the prices from falling to appropriate levels, the unsupportable business, banks, and others from going bankrupt, and the economy from getting back to a sound footing.

David S–You’re preaching to the choir here. It’s beyond me why some folks (yes, you USinUK, me luv) think that more Keynesian “stimulus” is what we need following 8 years of it from Bush. Pay me now or pay me later–except later is going to cost us three times as much.

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Welcome Back, Jay.

Housing’s gonna be tough for a long time, along with all those who make their living from it. Maybe now people will look at a house as a place to live and not as a means to make a fast buck. Except securities firms, of course. I’m sure they’ve already identified ways to that which is not specifically prohibited.

As far as the stimulus, yeah, it’s better than it would have been, but I think what has people riled up is, do they think they got their money’s worth? Remember, when Pres Obama first proposed his mix of spending and tax cuts, Republican numbers where a whole lot closer than what Democrats came up with. Then the immediate pain passed and people looked at the price tag and people said “wow, did it have to cost THAT much?!!?” Added to that the perception Democrats took other legislation and played Santa Clause, doling out huge sums, above that which was necessary, and that’s why I think Democrats have a perception problem with many voters.

Bosch 9:54

[[GWB,
“Y’all miss me yet?”
Hell no.]]

Did you know oatmeal leaves an oily-like residue when it gets spewed onto a monitor?

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I think Scout and his hate baggers hate the military. They’re the ones who lied and sent our boys off to die. Now instead of actually doing anything to help remedy that, they spend thier days trolling libural blogs…

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…that’s when they’re not revisiting the past to justify the present.

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Anybody ever come up a single solitary new and original idea that has come out of the hate baggers movement?

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Unfortunately all the CBO does is make estimates based on what the bill says. So if the stimulus bill said it would spend $X per job saved, then the CBO sees how many dollars the stimulus spent on jobs, divides that by the $X/job estimate in the bill, and says that’s how many jobs were saved. That’s not the same as examining the results, and really is pretty much meaningless. What is not meaningless is that the unemployment rate shows no sign of getting better.

What’s the very opposite of meaningless is that even Bookman admits the housing market was only temporarily boosted by various spending measures, and that there is a bigger crash now than there would have been had people not been bribed to buy homes. The same thing was seen with Cash for Clunkers, where the fall in demand following the end of the program was approximately equal to the rise in demand during the program. The net result was a lot of government spending for the same volume of car sales that would have occurred without the spending.

The stimulus cannot avoid the same result, because it’s run on the same theory. Bribe people to keep the economy going, and they will. Stop bribing them, and they will do less than they would have had they not been bribed in the first place. Unfortunately in the interim we flushed near a trillion dollars down the toilet for no net positive result.

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“The demand for housing (and therefore prices) were driven up artificially by the government (Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac) guaranteeing loans for people that had no business buying houses in the first place, and/or people buying bigger and more expensive houses than they should have”

right. it was all F&F, it had nothing to do with the fact that the demand for MBS was through the frickin’ ROOF (no pun intended), which drove banks to make more loans since they could make money by selling the mortgage to a company who would roll it up, relabel it AAA and have some schmuck buy it as part of their hedge fund portfolio.

not to mention, could someone please remind these numpties that the majority of subprime mortgages were NOT made by banks???!!!

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Granny Godzilla

August 25th, 2010
10:54 am

Are you saying that the average per job spent is not $248,181.82?

How so?

we are spending $819,000,000,000, in 2 years there has been 3,300,000 jobs created……. 819,000,000,000/3,300,000 =248,181.82

So for every job created it has cost us $248,181,82

I am sorry that math is a difficult subject for you but there are calculators that can assist you. All the information is at the top up there in Bookman’s piece.

Again sorry if you do not like the facts but that is them and it has cost us $248,181.82 for every single job created.

GREAT! jobs the gov. is creating these days

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“@@

August 25th, 2010
11:02 am
…that’s when they’re not revisiting the past to justify the present.”

So, what’s worse? Leftists revisiting the past to justify the present? Or hate baggers revisiting the past for thier ideas and to make excuses for their hand in the present?

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Well, I’m either a genius or an idiot for re-buying CSCO a few minutes ago.

Any votes on that?

P.S. to Jay–Thanks for running a column this AM on the economy as I beseeched you last night. Maybe you already had it in the works, so I won’t take any of the credit for the suggestion. Good job everyone for the great input. Maybe all we can do is hang on for dear life right now, but at least we’re doing it together.

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My goodness,

Liberals are running all over history looking for someone to blame for US economy woes. Kamchak is back in the 70s. There is the usual upchuck over Reagan. Then it’s energy. USinUK convulses into six smiley faces because SHE KNOWS it was Bush. Ho ho ho….

It seems liberals forget that the guy at the top takes the blame. Shhhhhhh don’t mention Obama. and CHANGE and all that good stuff liberals said we’d get with their Santa Claus president.

So we get it and it is NOT good! Yep, I’ll answer the question. I MISS BUSH and all his honesty.

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oh thomas

what did those jobs do? build a bridge maybe? build a school?

where did the money for the steel and brick and mortar and electrical
wire and those teeny tiny kindergarten desks come from?

you can’t divide the cost per project by number of jobs created to get a honest number (I don’t think you want an honest number, but you’ll have to deal with your own karma).

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Actually, I’ve been debating on if I should invest in a couple of houses now that the market is glutted. It would fit my sorta warped sense of humor to rent a house in a good neighborhood to a passle of Hispanics…maybe down in Clayton County…

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As some complain about what Obama has done to the country, look at what Sonny Perdue and the Republican Party has done to this “great state”….If there is not a large “DEMOCRATIC” turnout, we will be on the same path with Nathan Deal…Georgia the time is NOW if we want to turn this state around!!

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“USinUK convulses into six smiley faces because SHE KNOWS it was Bush. Ho ho ho”

yeah. well. reading comprehension never was your strong suit.

I didn’t say it was anyone’s fault. I was laughing at the idea that Obama destroyed the economy – like it was in such great shakes when he got here.

nice try, Miss Reading is Fundamental.

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Scout

August 25th, 2010
11:00 am

What if it was a Church steeple?

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“Morgan Stanley Says Government Defaults Inevitable”Bloomberg.

Well, the gop need a new plan because their plan to destroy America is accomplished.

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I somehow doubt that we’ll be putting the ‘adults’ in charge after November 2nd as 90%+ of incumbents are winning their primaries. So much for the ’sweep them out’ attitude.

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Bruno:

P.S. to Jay–Thanks for running a column this AM on the economy as I beseeched you last night. Maybe you already had it in the works, so I won’t take any of the credit for the suggestion.

God luv ‘ya! You just can’t see the forest, ’cause your ego’s in the way.

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thomas – have you ever been on unemployment?

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HISTORY LESSON – YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY CARD

Just in case some of you young whippersnappers (& some older ones) didn’t know this. It’s easy to check out, if you don’t believe it. Be sure and show it to your kids. They need a little history lesson on what’s what and it doesn’t matter whether you are Democrat or Republican. Facts are Facts!!!
Social Security Cards up until the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to be used for identification purposes. Since nearly everyone in the United States now has a number, it became convenient to use it anyway and the message was removed.

An old Social Security card with the “NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION” message.
Our Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,

No longer Voluntary

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program,

Now 7.65% on the first $90,000

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

No longer tax deductible

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent ‘Trust Fund’ rather than into the general operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,

Under Johnson the money was moved to the General Fund and Spent

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Under Clinton &Gore up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month — and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to ‘put away’ — you may be interested in the following:

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —-

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent ‘Trust Fund’ and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democrat controlled House and Senate.

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democrat Party.

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —–

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democrat Party, with Al Gore casting the ‘tie-breaking’ deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— –

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

A: That’s right!

Jimmy Carter and the Democrat Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive Social Security payments! The Democrat Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!

———— — ———— ——— —– ———— ——— ———

Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed citizens believe it! If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe changes will evolve. Maybe not, some Democrats are awfully sure of what isn’t so.

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“Bruno… we’ll just have to “agree” to “disagree” about leadership. I guess we just see things differently at times.”

No problem, Saul. I gave up on demanding that the rest of the world see things my way a long time ago.

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Bruno,

I see you are taking credit for this morning’s subject. Did you tell Jay to blame is on something before Obama’s reign?

Perhaps you should blog on the business page with your business projections. Nobody else seems to know what is going on. I judge this on many factors. I also looked at my new health insurance costs and it is high enough to make one convulse. The government dabbles while citizens burn and smoke rises..

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Granny Godzilla

August 25th, 2010
11:09 am

As i claimed that is the cost of the job.

Would you not count the materials that are needed for the job as part of the cost of teh job.

I mean there is no job if tehy don’t buy the products…..

So again show me how my figures are flawed, it cost the United States government $248,181.82 for every job they created.

I know you are unable to say anything contrary or negative about this administration and/or presidency, because you feel you have a point to prove because you ran your mouth so much during the election of ‘08. Most adults learn that we will be wrong from time to time and learn to admit our mistakes….. But this isn’t negative… its simply a statement of fact, the fact that the government spent $248,181.82 for every job they created!

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Was the CRA responsible for anywhere close to a majority of sub-prime loans? Absolutely not.

Were there sub-prime loans being made in such volumes before the CRA? No.

Were there MBS’s before the CRA was strengthened by Clinton? No.

Was the CRA and the adoption of sub-primes by Fannie and Freddie (who were explicitly NOT supposed to be taking on risky loans, but did so anyway) a leading cause in the creation of the MBS trend that was then continued at even larger volumes by private enterprise? Hell yeah!

Government meddling definitely helped create the trend that destroyed our economy. They don’t have to have been responsible for all the loans to be responsible for making bad decisions that had unintended consequences that started the problem.

Here’s a metaphor. Mr. Politician was standing at the top of a mountain and decided to throw a small rock down the side of the mountain. This started an avalanche. Mr. Politician did not throw down all the rocks, he only threw down one of them, and a small one at that. But he still started the avalanche.

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Normal:

It would fit my sorta warped sense of humor to rent a house in a good neighborhood to a passle of Hispanics…maybe down in Clayton County…

You do know the demographics down my way. Have you got something against blacks?

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The gop collapsed the country yet the cons will still vote for them.

Any shrinks in the house?

Obviously, it is some sort of insanity. What should we call it?

I got it.

conservatism.

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harvey@11:17 the same way that our Georgia Govenor would take away education funds and then order an investigation into a test cheating scandal.

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thomas

ok, let’s try it your way.

the school was free so was the bridge.

i bet you think that was a bargain.

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Southern Comfort…absolutely. I am voting with my dollars as are others. If you visit the website, they ask individuals to let those businesses know that they are losing your dollars and offending customers. Nothing wrong with that.

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Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
10:45 am

Bruno@10:25am… At this same time in Reagan’s first term…he was dealing with the same bad poll numbers that Obama is dealing with.

Saul, it’s 2010! Welcome!

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USinUK
August 25th, 2010
10:50 am

“Neo-Cons

Your a racists too? Please say it isn’t so!

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Keep

Most of the places I frequent with tv’s usually have sports on. CNN has the airport locked down. If it’s not the local news, I’ll listen to CNN. I’ll surf Fox online though.

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** I MISS BUSH and all his honesty.**

Uh, this is a man who LIED us into war causing the death and destruction of hundreds of thousands of people. Unfortunately, that is a sad reality.

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USinUK

August 25th, 2010
11:22 am

hehe

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I’m here –

diddums, you might want to scroll up to read the prior post … you’d see I was adapting another blogger’s quote.

as for subprime borrowers, well, here are some more facts I’m sure you’ll conveniently ignore:

To examine the surge in subprime lending, the Journal analyzed more than 250 million records on mortgage applications and originations filed by lenders under the federal Home Mortgage Disclosure Act….the data contradict the conventional wisdom that subprime borrowers are overwhelmingly low-income residents of inner cities. Although the concentration of high-rate loans is higher in poorer communities, the numbers show that high-rate lending also rose sharply in middle-class and wealthier communities….

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/10/journal-on-demographics-of-subprime.html

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3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

No longer tax deductible

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5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Under Clinton &Gore up to 85% of your Social Security can be Taxed

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Keep up the good fight!
August 25th, 2010
11:20 am

I wondered when the “blame Bush” movement would expire. I guess in your world it has already expired because now it’s Fox New’s “fault”. Exxxxxxcellllenttttt!!

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Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent ‘Trust Fund’ and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democrat controlled House and Senate.

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democrat Party.

———— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— —–

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democrat Party, with Al Gore casting the ‘tie-breaking’ deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US

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Bush was an equal opportunity liar, he lied about things both great and small

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USinUK
August 25th, 2010
11:22 am

man up, I’m here …

I’d say you were whining like a little girl, but that would be an insult to little girls everywhere.

Is that the best you got? ROFL You a Girly man!

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Saul Good

August 25th, 2010
11:32 am

Saul,
With some here, the term “Sunshine Patriots” seem to be the best fit.

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Granny: Your own link, if you bothered to read the whole thing, exonerates Bush for lying. When the context and facts are considered…. He never said he would never play golf again. Hmmm… Maybe this is a sign you switched sides and are defending Bush? Or maybe it’s a sign that you link to stuff you don’t even bother reading?

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i’m here – 11:35 – dude. seriously?

you’re totally contradicted with evidence and you’re not man enough to acknowledge it.

paaaaaaaaaaathetic.

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Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
11:32 am

Bush was an equal opportunity liar, he lied about things both great and small

Sorta like you ctucker hiding behind Granny Godzilla

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Leg lamp…you must have shorted out. Why don’t you look at the post of your comrades who bring up the dead (Johnson, Roosevelt) as well as Clinton and Carter. Did you inform them that the statute of blame limitations had expired there? Seems the whining from the right continues and the “you’re blaming him, its been x days” crybabies are still out there. Why does the right love to play the victim card….oh by the way, your way over your account limit on that card!

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@I’m here from the government….

The President has appointed a commission to study ways to reduce the deficit, but the only thing anyone is hearing from this commission (they meet in secret) is that they are going after Social Security instead. For this reason it has become known as the “Catfood Commission” instead of the “Deficit Commission” because any reductions in benefits will force so many older Americans to eat catfood instead of more expensive human food.

Congress should preempt the commission from targeting Social Security by making it clear that they will not accept cuts or an increase in the retirement age.

Social Security cannot legally borrow, so it is not possible for it to add to the deficit at all. In fact it is entirely self-funded and has a huge surplus. But Presidents Reagan and the Bushes borrowed from Social Security to give those huge tax cuts to the rich, and the money is coming due. This is the reason Social Security is the focus of the commission instead of the things that actually caused the deficits and debt. They are trying to find ways to avoid having to pay that money back to Social Security. Congress should tell the commission to look at the real causes of the deficits and debt and not at Social Security which does not contribute to deficits and debt.

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aul,
In case you didn’t know…but if you did, then it can educate others…

http://www.veritasrex.com/veritas_rex/2010/07/will-social-conservatives-be-sunshine-patriots.html

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@@ from 8:13 PM last night:

“You don’t have as great an impact on me as you’d like to believe.”

RW from 9:31 PM last night:

“Whether you blog or not is meaningless to me.”

For two people who don’t care whether I blog or not, you seem to spend a good bit of time responding to me trying to get your digs in. Now I know how AmVet feels.

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Saul Good,

It is indeed good that you posted a short one. I don’t usually read your lengthy literati.

Sooooooo…George W. Bush was dishonest. The CIA was dishonest. The Congress of the USA (including Democrats) was dishonest. British Intel was dishonest. Prime Miister Blair was dishonest. You must have a busy time pointing fingers at everyone except al Queda, dictators and others who hate Americans. Why do you always forget them in your haste to discredit George W. Bush. Fortunately, he did not and we have had safe years..

Now try to remember: Most Americans support our military and their objectives. Try it. You’ll like it.

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Iran shows missile, says is friend to neighbors

“Here’s the 357 I’m going to kill you with but I did love you, neighbors”

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If social conservatives are adament about turning the America as we know it, into a Christian Only nation, how are they any different from the Taliban? Same Ideology, different methods, is all.

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Bosch

Notice you dodged the wager part. What a man!

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Normal,
I have seen that before… hopefully others that NEED to see it…WILL do just that.

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Keep up the good fight!

Notice you dodged the wager part. What a man!

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Bruno,

Whether you blog or not IS meaningless to me, but as long as you DO blog where I happen to be and you make the claims you do about real versus fake conservatives then as a conservative I’ll point out what a phony you are.

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Oh Dusty…the “he kept us safe” garbage? Except that he didn’t. 9/11, anthrax, shoe bomber…..etc. etc….when does the recycling of lies stop?

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Keep up the good fight!

Pssssst. [Waving hand for you to come over] Do you know what this dude is talking about?

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Granny-

This whole “you fell for that?” comment might hold a bit more water if you managed to cite anything other than Huffington Post.

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I can see the beginning of the circular vortex forming in the porcelain bowl…

Now is as good a time as any to back away from the keyboard and monitor. See y’all later on when everyone’s meds kick in.

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I’m here – “Notice you dodged the wager part. What a man!”

ohmygod – what are you? 7? or just clearly in need of mood stabilizers?

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Dusty…yet they were ALL dishonest…and… CONGRESS did NOT furnish the reports… they read the reports furnished by WHOM??? Bush, Cheney, Rummy, and the rest of the neo-cons who had a plan for Iraq before they even got into office. Do they share some blame for being suckered in? Yup…But it does not remove what you said above. That BUSH (and you were talking about HE)…is an HONEST man. HE said what he did… and HE lied. He lied to our congress, our citizens, and the rest of the world.

Tell me again how BUSH IS/WAS “HONEST”…because THAT is what you said..and THAT is what we were talking about. Blaming others does NOT take away from the fact that BUSH lied and was in fact DISHONEST.

Dusty…I’ll ask of you again…was BUSH “honest”??? (ONLY he that we speak of for the moment).

NO…he was NOT.

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Saul:

Want to take away unemployment checks and Social Security checks… medicare and medicaid

Eventually, yes!

I certainly don’t wanna empower government to build votes upon those who would become dependent.

Hugo’s down there attempting to nationalize, regulate, control anything that doesn’t move in the direction he demands. Does this sound familiar to you?

<a href="President Hugo Chavez expressed optimism Sunday that Venezuela is about to emerge from a recession, even describing its oil-dependent economy as robust.

Chavez suggested state television should broadcast a series of programs focusing on the strength of the economy as a way to debunk what he called erroneous predictions from analysts of more economic problems on the horizon.

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USinUK

…and your mouth continues to dodge!

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I’m here – 11:57 – what is that, your version of “wanna take this outside”?

freak.

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Oops!

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9HFHLG00.htm

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Bruno – I love me some Jackson Brown – always thought he was a great songwriter

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“He needs to wager with Andy… Andy ALWAYS pays off his debts…”

Ha!

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43 Dead in Attacks Targeting Iraqi Security Forces

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Granny Godzilla

August 25th, 2010
11:23 am

We will try this then……

How much money did the United States government spend per job they created by the highest side of teh estimation of jobs created?

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Leg Lamp,

Not sure if you are new here or not, but most of us regulars have said time and time again, that we do not care if they were Dem or not voting for the war — they all shouldn’t have done it — and needed to be slapped for doing so. Although I think Doggone uses the word “treason” for all of them, which, I’m inclined to agree with as well.

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so, wait … according to the LA codicil, if I have more than 2 bloggers attacking me, doesn’t that mean I win the internet?

huzzah!

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Good morning all.

I see another spirited discussion about the aftermath of the corporate destruction of capitalism. With many predictable responses.

“…excessive government spending. That’s why the Republicans were given the boot in 2006.”

Very true, BUT…that is only one aspect for explaining those nationwide election day annihilations of the neo-cons in 2006 and then again in 2008. There are numerous other equally imperative reasons of course, but shhhhh! We don’t discuss those in mixed company, LOL…

Hey Scout, when you come back, you can provide that list of names of liberals who hate the troops! I can’t wait to see who’s on it!

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according to the LA codicil, if I have more than 2 bloggers attacking me, doesn’t that mean I win the internet?

Based on what one sees in this thread, do you really want it?

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Jay,
First don’t confront the Right, Conservatives, Republicans with facts. Especially facts that come from reliable sources rather than Fox, Beck, Limbaugh or any other arms of the Right Wing propaganda machine. Additionally, the damage caused by Bush and the Republicans during their control of the White House and Congress cannot be corrected within four, or perhaps even eight years. The destruction of the US economy, of the public education system, and the increase in poverty (cheap labor) begun under the Republicans will continue should they be allowed to occupy the presidency or the Congressional majority.

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Dusty:

George W. Bush:

“Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” And, “[Saddam Hussein is] a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda.” These two Bush remarks go hand in hand, even though the first was said on March 17, 2003, two days before Bush launched the invasion of Iraq, and the other came during a November 7, 2002, press conference. Together they represented his argument for war: Hussein possessed actual weapons of mass destruction and at any moment could hand them to his supposed partners in al Qaeda. That is why Hussein was an immediate threat to the United States and had to be taken out quickly…”

Saddam was dealing with Al Qaeda? Who knew?

“We found the weapons of mass destruction.” Bush issued this triumphant remark in late May 2003, while being interviewed by a Polish television reporter. He was referring to two tractor-trailers obtained by U.S. forces in Iraq. The CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency had concluded these vehicles were mobile bio-weapons plants. Yet they had found not a trace of biological agents on either. (And no bio-weapon facility could be scrubbed completely clean.) In subsequent weeks, it turned out that State Department analysts and even DIA engineering experts—as well as outside experts—did not accept the CIA and DIA conclusion, and some of these doubters believed the explanation of Iraqis who claimed the trucks were built to produce hydrogen for weather balloons. Whichever side might be ultimately right about the trailers, this all-important piece of evidence was hotly contested. It was hardly solid enough to support Bush’s we-found-them declaration or to justify a war.”

Yups…dem tailors were full of WMD’s and part of a bio-weapons plant….

Dusty… last time I’ll ask (and this is NOT about Obama…it’s about what YOU stated: Bush is an honest man)…

Was Bush an “honest” man…or did he lie?

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Am–Great show out in Alpharetta tonight. Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, and Boz Scaggs all on one stage.

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Double the 7.65% for EVERYONE. Your employer doesn’t pay the other half, you do. If it weren’t going to the government, it could be going to you. Whether you want to deal with reality or not, the total amount your employer must pay out in wages, SS and Medicare matching, Disability, Unemployment, their share of insurance, liability, and the rest are ALL part of what they consider the cost of each employee. Without all those costs, they could pay you more, or could hire more people.

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“Without all those costs, they could pay you more, or could hire more people.”

Which is why we need single payer now.

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AmVet:

In 2006, Independents went against the GOP because of the war. Some conservatives as well. Most conservatives tied excessive spending to the war…results were the same.

Independents still don’t like excessive spending, and neither do conservatives. Left-wingers love it…it’s the answer to all our problems.

Happy now?

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You can blame the banks and mortgage companies all you want – but YOU know if you can make the payments. Blame someone else for your BAD choices……mmm, mmm, mmm

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“No I have not ever been on unemployment… I have been fortunate enought to remain employed since graduation from college. Do you honestly feel there are none who do abuse the promgram?”

the reason I asked – anyone who has ever been on unemployment would know: you barely make enough to live (I was on it for 3 months during the dot-com implosion – it paid my rent, but that was it).

if you’re on unemployment you want a job – they pay better. and, if you’re lucky, they have benefits.

are there skivers? I’m sure there are – but I feel confident in saying that they’re the rarity, not the rule.

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“the reason I asked – anyone who has ever been on unemployment would know: you barely make enough to live (I was on it for 3 months during the dot-com implosion – it paid my rent, but that was it).”

And then there are the self-employed, who aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, even though we pay into the fund year after year for our employees.

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USinUK

FYI! 50% of the current unemployed WILL always be unemployed. Their daddy and momma did it. Their daddy’s daddy and momma did it. Get the pattern?

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“I’m here – you just go feeling all manly and stuff cuz you wanted to place a bet on an anonymous blog. you sure showed me. I’m duly chastised.”

USinUK–I offered you 3-1 odds on my blog bet with you. What are you, scared or something??

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@@

August 25th, 2010
11:58 am

Eventually? Is that BEFORE or AFTER you are eligible for them?

How about we start today. Now… no more SS…and regardless of what you paid in in the past…it’s over.

Okay with you?

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USinUK

Call L.A. they need another dodger! Let me put this in caps for the mental-retard, USinUK!

A THIRD PARTY WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL THE DETAILS!

Questions, USinUK?

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Saul:

The approach needs to be one of compassion. Phasing out, preparing the next generation for the realities would be the proper way to go.

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“If I hadn’t already dropped some coinage to go see TR in September, I’d pony up for the $100 or so to see this one!”

I think they’re offering cheap seats for just $25. If the job offer comes through today, I’m going.

BTW, let me know if you want to see Jon Anderson on Sep 12 at the Variety. My treat, bro.

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USinUK

Sure nibble-nuts! Just take a ride to East Point or any other ghetto and check out all the men and women living off my $$$$$$$

What’s the lowest unemployment has ever been since Roosevelt? 4.8% maybe?

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“let me know if you want to see Jon Anderson on Sep 12 ”

ahem … “goooooooooin’ for the one … listen in time … taken so high … to touch to move … listen to life … touching touch time … travel twilight … taken so high … ”

that’s my Jon Anderson impression … and now, my throat hurts

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Economically, this country is a dying carcass being picked apart by the vultures. When manufacturing was being shipped overseas technology filled the void and fueled the economy in the 80’s and 90’s. Where’s the economic boom to fill the gap left by our exporting of technology innovation and leadership? Nothing on the horizon (”green energy” is a wealth redistribution scam, not an economic growth engine). Brace for more severe pain, because it’s coming.

Politically, things continue to get marginally better (check yesterday’s election results), but the major economic and political policy changes needed can’t begin at least until next year, after the new Congress is seated, and then it may still take 2-4 years (best case) to undue the major long-term policy damage done in the past 2-4 years. In the meantime the destruction of our economy and middle class and corruption of our institutions will continue, largely unabated, and the weaker we become as a nation the more vultures we attract.

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Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm

@@

August 25th, 2010
11:58 am

Eventually? Is that BEFORE or AFTER you are eligible for them?

How about we start today. Now… no more SS…and regardless of what you paid in in the past…it’s over.

Okay with you?

FISH ON!!!

HELL YES, just give me back what I paid, with no interest, like I was going to collect any interest anyway. Then I will NEVER ask for another dime of MY MONEY!!!

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If you go tonight, let me know. It’s only money!

And hell to the yeah (Or should that be Yes?!) on that Sept. 12 gig!

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The Leg Lamp is a “major award” much like Cynthia Tucker’s Pulitzer and Obama’s Nobel.

August 25th, 2010
12:01 pm

What you say is true, but only after they were fed a bill of goods through mis-information, half truths and outright lies.

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“after the new Congress is seated, and then it may still take 2-4 years (best case) to undue the major long-term policy damage done in the past 2-4 years.”

How long will it take to undo the damage of the 6 years previous to that?

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Jimmy 62

Piffle. He lied.

Gammer

Insulting the website does not alter the truth

thomas

the brooklyn bridge was free too, the sand hogs made tons of money though

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Annual average unemployment rate, civilian labor force 16 years and over (percent)

Year Annual
1948 3.8
1949 5.9
1950 5.3
1951 3.3
1952 3.0
1953 2.9
1954 5.5
1955 4.4
1956 4.1
1957 4.3
1958 6.8
1959 5.5
1960 5.5
1961 6.7
1962 5.5
1963 5.7
1964 5.2
1965 4.5
1966 3.8
1967 3.8
1968 3.6
1969 3.5
1970 4.9
1971 5.9
1972 5.6
1973 4.9
1974 5.6
1975 8.5
1976 7.7
1977 7.1
1978 6.1
1979 5.8
1980 7.1
1981 7.6
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
1984 7.5
1985 7.2
1986 7.0
1987 6.2
1988 5.5
1989 5.3
1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2
2000 4.0
2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
2004 5.5
2005 5.1
2006 4.6
2007 4.6
2008 5.8
2009 9.3

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Well I never thought I’d see this place turn into a dating service, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

Good time to go run some errands before the Braves game

Later

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HELL YES, just give me back what I paid, with no interest, like I was going to collect any interest anyway. Then I will NEVER ask for another dime of MY MONEY!!!

By all means, let’s make public policy decisions based on the promises of hyperventilating anonymous wingnuts on the Intertubes. There’s a plan.

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“And hell to the yeah (Or should that be Yes?!) on that Sept. 12 gig!”

Sound great. I’ve got a pair of General Admission tix.

A little ditty from the only Yes album that Jon Anderson didn’t appear on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8gLVjRA7f4

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1982 9.7
1983 9.6

Wow. Who was President back then?

Bet his approvals were in the 30s! Bet he didn’t have a chance in hell of getting re-elected!

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stands for decibels

You have to be an idiot to believe SS is a good thing. Do you play the lottery to? Another poor man’s TAX, only for those that can’t count!

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Wanna save SS? Stop paying it to those with a net worth over 5 million$$$.

uh, Saul, while you’ve got a good heart:

1) it really doesn’t need “saving.” it’s solvent for now, and just needs fairly minor tweaks to meet obligations down the road. The peopel who are going on about “saving” it are really just trying to find a way to pretend that SS contributors haven’t already paid for future obligations with T-bills–basically, they’re looking for a way to default on those obligations.

2) anyone who lumps it into discussions about “entitlement reform” needs to be rendered alive for tallow. on pay per view.

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Are the conservatives/Republicans STILL on here whining because Obama has not created a job for them yet! You kids need to try and wean yourselves off the government.

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uhhh… SFD social security NEEDED saving DESPERATELY in the 2000 and 2004 elections… DESPERATELY I tell you… as DESPERATELY as Iraq needed to be invaded… Now why didn’t they campaign on the promise of invading Iraq? Hmmmm…… And why was not another peep made about the NEED to SAVE SS after the 2004 elections? hmmmm…

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If you conservatives/Republicans had really wanted jobs working in the fields for $50/hour, you should have elected John McCain.

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“Do you pick your nose and ass as well to?”

Another one for Dusty posted by one of her kindred spirits…

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From the previous Bookem’man post: [ Americans' discomfort with the ground zero mosque has ] “become the No. 1 topic of discussion in recent days and proof positive, according to some of the posted messages, that America is indeed at war with Islam.”

From the current Booken’man post:
“federal tax subsidies for homebuyers ended in June”–proof positive according to some, of the posted messages, that the American Congress and Presidential administration is at war with the economy and the American people.

In Bookem’man world, the “some” to whom things can be accorded, are enlightened thoughtful people in the first paragraph–loony bigots and gun-toting hypocritical racist christians in the second.

Isn’t that right, Jay? Don’t you despise your fellow Georgians and their super majority opinion of the mosque?

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Time to make money, so I can retire RICH and continue to laugh at the ghetto loving group who drinks the kook-aid but the ghetto remains the same. SuckA’s!

Later!

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Anyway, just to attend to the original topic of Jay’s before getting back to producin’—

1) From the historical data on housing prices I’ve seen going back decades, the sad fact is that housing is still somewhat overvalued. I don’t think we’ve really hit “bottom” although we might find ways to continue papering that over.

2) I think Jay is being a bit too generous with his (usual) condemnation of nearly everyone involved. I think most home buyers are blameless. Most home buyers are trying to make responsible, complex decisions about the single largest resource allocation of their lives, and the complications include school districting, future value, available infrastructure, and so forth. The banksters that rigged this game, and the politicians who were either blind to or encouraged the rigging on the other hand, aren’t being punished anywhere near commensurate with the pain they’ve inflicted on millions of Americans.

3) Undiscussed but just boiling under—we probably need to have a national talk about the real meaning of “debt obligations.” I have had enough of moralizing jerkwads trying to make people feel guilty about defaulting on impossible mortgage situations. More people probably need to throw in their keys and walk away; only then will we get the cramdowns those of us dirty effing hippies on the left have been trying to prise from the local aristocracy.

BBL. Have fun, kids.

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Its a perfect time for people to get comfortable in their existing homes and focus on home improvements and other upgrades that will add value to their biggest investments.

Better home energy efficiency is a great way to increase the value of your home while simultaneously save you save you money on monthly utility expenses.

Energy efficient appliances are great and sure, those GA Power dogs are darn cute, but these small upgrades are not going to translate into considerable energy savings.

Did you know your roof is one of the leading causes of temperature absorption on your home, forcing your air conditioning to continuously run and significantly increase your energy costs?

The most common type of roofing is asphalt shingles which provides zero energy efficiency and needs periodic replacing.

An alternative roofing option is metal paneling which does provide energy protection, especially if you find an Energy Star rated metal roof.

There is a great company called Energy Roofing Systems (www.energyroofingsystems.net) located here in metro Atl that offers such a solution which they claim will reduce your energy bill up to 40% and never need to be replaced.

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@@

August 25th, 2010
12:53 pm

And so am I… I don’t plan on it…if it happens and I get a check each and every month…we’ll simply have to see how myself and my wife are in the future. I hold no crystal ball… but like you and your husband…we don’t plan on it and we do what we need to to “squirrel” away each and every month/year to save up a nice nest we can rely upon when needed.

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Saul:

And just so you know, the elders who vote Democrat are just as opposed to cutting back SS and medicare as much as those who vote Republican.

You oughta see ‘em wheezing over at the left-wing blogsites.

I can’t really say as I blame ‘em. A promise made by the government is as good as a promise broken by government. They should’ve seen it coming.

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Occupations + bush depression = teetering on collapse.

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Granny Godzilla

August 25th, 2010
12:54 pm

Ah Granny…how would Chicken taste when plucked and have their heads cut off by those same young republicans in all of our states chicken “processing plants”…

Maybe all of those who were subcontractors building homes and are waiting for new work while taking monthly checks (while bashing Obama AND Mexicans here illegally) will “finally” roll up their sleeves and go start plucking chickens in Hall County, GA. There are jobs there for them if they REALLY want a job…or do they just want to go back to what they did in the past? I mean…pretty much ALL of them eat chicken right? So why not cut their heads off and pluck them for a living?

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H. Westmoreland
August 25th, 2010
1:04 pm

Can I? Sure.

But it’s always good to check the experts don’t you think?

Merriam Webster online says: : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

They did a good job on that.

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Headline: “Morgan Stanley Says Government Defaults Inevitable”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-25/morgan-stanley-says-government-bond-default-is-question-of-how-not-if-.html

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Amazing how many distrust government finance when
government securities are considered the safest financial
investments.

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Saul

Chicken Pluckin’ Republicans….Kind like woodchucks chuck wood…

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Saul: Social Security by definition cannot be “saved” because structurally it is a Ponzi scheme. It can be sustained, but not “saved”. Ultimately it will either collapse, be killed off, or be transformed into something other than a Ponzi scheme. Politicians that talk about “saving Social Security” really mean extending it’s viability in its current form as a redistribution vehicle, but there will always be payout risks to future beneficiaries as long as the program exists in its current form. SS/MC are liabilities to the government and taxpayers funded out of current tax revenues or with borrowing (because in truth there is no “fund”), and they always will be in their current form.

The greatest long-term hope for Social Security/Medicare is government control of health care. The leftist-Feds need to ensure people don’t live too long and further stress the entitlement programs, and health care control offers a vehicle for them to pursue that end (just like they insist on maintaining abortion access to sustain some level of population control in the welfare-reliant segments of society). They aren’t interested in people’s lives, they’re interested in enhancing State political and economic power and control over people’s wealth and resources.

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Saul:

I’ve got sanding and painting to do. Playtime is over.

But NOBODY has said that it’s OVER

If you’re talkin’ about SS and medicare, somebody needs to say it’s OVER.

If you’re talkin’ about war, that’s something that’ll never be over. There’s always gonna be some nutjob who will invite us over.

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Headline: “Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases”

“Critics assail the plan as a bid to create a kind of backdoor ‘amnesty’”

The will of the people ???

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7169978.html

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and some nutjob who thinks its a good idea

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Reality sucks!

It doesn’t have to, really it doesn’t…everybody could lend a helping hand instead of a slap.

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“ABC: ‘Breaking News: President Obama Says “I’m Having a Great Time” On Vacation’… ”

Wow. Good to know ABC is still out there looking for relevant “breaking news”.

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Gammer @10:14am …re: 2003-2008 spending on educatio. Yeah on the anti -educational NCLB package !!! Ask the real educators not the fakes!

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Scout, about the foreign debt, all payable in dollars, just
print them, pay them off. Unemployment is our only
problem. No easy,quick fix.

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but I can truly say…my own mom does not need to be getting SS checks every month. Most do… but not everyone. I mean does Bill Gates need to get SS checks when he becomes of age?

If you bought a life insurance policy and later died, I don’t imagine your beneficiary would be very happy if the insurance company paid the policy benefit in an amount that depended on how wealthy the beneficiary had at the time of the claim.

Well, SS is an insurance system. It does not pay benefits according to the wealth possessed by the individual at the time of filing for the benefit, nor should it. In short, SS is not an entitlement.

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“Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.8 percentage points,
Increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million”

You are bragging about this? This is incrediablly poor result from such a massive effort. Really a .7 drop in unemployment in two years? This is not outside a normal variation in employement figures. If that’s all the stimulus did, I wouldn’t brag that’s for damn sure.

Debt out the wazoo, no jobs, floundering economy, nuclear Iran with russia’s help, etc.
It would be laughable if not so pathetic….

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Southern Atlanta,

Most Democrats knew that Roy had it in the bag and didn’t vote.

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Bosch
August 25th, 2010
1:56 pm

Riiiiiiiiight.

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Leg Lamp,

Whatever the case was in the primaries, they are tied in the polls, so we’ll see.

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DawgDad- but Al Gore said we can lockbox it? He is never wrong, correct? Here is my thoughts. Keep raising the social security rate on the wealthy, continue to tax more of the benefits on the “high net worths”, and then one day when they are not looking simply stop given them benefits. Alternatively we can just charge them $150 every time they leave their front door.

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If only Obama would hire John McCain to be the nation’s employment czar, we could all pick vegetables for $50/hour. After that, John could be re-assigned to chase Osama bin Laden to the Gates of Hell. Then, he could take over the GAO and show us all how he can balance the budget and get rid of the debt while maintaining two wars, social security, Medicare and Medicaid, all at current levels, and toss in making the Bush tax cuts permanent without borrowing another dime. Then again, those special mushrooms can’t last forever. Then what.

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TaxPayer

How much is the crack your smoking?

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I understand Obama has just announced a 6-month moratorium on eggs. He will form a task force next week to determine how safe is the egg indsustry. He also mentioned that Larry David would be appointed egg czar next week and his appointment was in no way related to him being follicy challenged.

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I’m Here From The Government And I’m Here To Help
August 25th, 2010
2:12 pm

Maybe ACORN can register some polls as democrats.

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“Putin shoots gray whale with crossbow! ”

Why not a white whale? The guy must be a racist.

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ADDICTED: Average Teen Sends 3,000 Texts A Month; Experts Compare To Drugs…

and we wonder why test scores continue to fall…

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The Leg Lamp is a “major award” much like Cynthia Tucker’s Pulitzer and Obama’s Nobel.

Love Ya, Man!!!

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How much is the crack your smoking?

I wouldn’t know what your addiction costs, Son of Whiner.

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He was great. Will miss him as much as Obama and lil Rham-

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I’m Here From The Government And I’m Here To Help

Social securtiy was not intended to be the sole source for retirement, only a safety net. In that respect it works quite well. It is not a ponzi because it is perpetual with each generation paying for the next. If people are depending on it for their only income for retirement then that is poor planning or just move to belize where one can live quite comfortably on $1500 per month. Without this safety net, I’m quite sure this country would be in far worse condition after the meltdown in sept. 08.

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Dusty

Bush was not an honest man. When he left, this country was broken by war and HIS debt. No matter who followed, that person was doomed. If gore was pres. social security would have been in a lockbox, 911 might not have happened and there would have been no iraq war meaning 5,000 service would not have lost their lives, 30,000 would not have suffered sever injuries. Halliburton should be asked to pick up their medical tabs – for life.

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Mick
August 25th, 2010
2:59 pm

Nirvana had Gore been in office?

mmmuuuwwwaaaaAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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What you are implying is that there is no difference between the government actually borrowing from the SS trust fund and not borrowing from it. Only if you look at the SSA as a separate entity can you say that it only needs tweaks. If you look at it as just part of the government (as you should since the government spends the surplus and is responsible for the deficit), then the question becomes “where will the government get the money to pay SSA?” If it had not borrowed and spent the money, it would have it.

The trust fund is simply an accounting mechanism to keep track of how much one part of the government owes another part of the government.

In an “all things being equal” world, sure. I get the “they’re just IOUs!” argument. I heard Bush try his best to make it, back in late 2004, during his ill-fated SS Piratization Tour.

Here’s my major problem with it—that wasn’t fake money that working class Americans and their employers were pumping into Social Security starting in the 80s. It was quite real, thank you very much. This insurance program was tasked with funding itself responsibly, and it did.

And now? Well, we’re being told it was just monopoly money, and we had our fingers crossed, and you didn’t say “Mother may I?” AND “Simon Says”, so we get to take it from you and if you don’t like it go [bleep] yourselves.

Well sorry, but I’m not going to take that lying down. [Bleep] the Catfood Commision, and frankly, [Bleep] Barack Obama for making me waste my [bleep]ing time on this. I can see having to defend SS when you’ve got a GOP President and/or Congress, but Democrats? Allowing this “discussion” to even take place? [bleep]ing hell.

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Mick
August 25th, 2010
3:12 pm

Calm down, calm down. Put the pill bottle away. Just keep telling yourself that Gore and Kerry won and that all is well in the US of A.

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Hillbilly,

But not to the extend that we’ve seen in the past decade — which happened under the watchful eye of the great GOP leaders.

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Hillbilly,

Nevermind, that makes no sense – you’re right —

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Bosch

We went through pretty much the same thing here in 1974, that we did in 2008. Knew a guy who owned a plumbing company that went from 100+ employees to 12, in 2 weeks.

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GD Hit a New 52 Week Low at $56.88

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Mick
August 25th, 2010
2:59 pm

Dusty

Bush was not an honest man.

Mick, your light bulb is on dimmer!

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TaxPayer

dividends – Shows what a nut your are! LOL

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Rules for Obama BS Bingo:

1. Before Barrack Obama’s next televised speech, print your “BS Bingo” player card.
2. Check off the appropriate block when you hear one of the words/phrases.
3. When you get five blocks horizontally, vertically, or diagonally, stand up and shout “BS!”

Testimonials from past satisfied “BS Bingo” players:

“I had been listening to the speech for only five minutes when I won.” – Jack W., Boston

“My attention span during speeches has improved dramatically.” – David D., Florida

“What a gas! Speeches will never be the same for me after my first win.” – Bill R., New York City

“The atmosphere was tense in the last speech as 4 of us waited for the fifth box. My wife won!” – Ben G., Denver

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“falling Obama approval causes Guam to tip over” <<<<<<Now that IS HILARIOUS!!!

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I forgot Obama was black!

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OK, so a top secret CIA agent accidentally shoots himself in the leg and dies? Sounds fishy to me.

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well if it “Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.8 percentage points,” then why did unemployment go from 8% (pre-stimulus pkg rate) to our current level of 9.5%???????

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someone tell me what bush did that was so bad, honestly?? i’m not trying to be funny or stir up anything, but why all the venom towards bush, when no one says what was “so bad”?????if he was so bad, why did he get re-elected in 2004? here are the FACTS from the first six years of the bush presidency……note that the last two years of his term were when the democrats had control of congress……
http://www.house.gov/jec/publications/110/rr110-3.pdf

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WASHINGTON, Aug. 25, 2010 – A wave of attacks in Iraq today demonstrates that al-Qaida in Iraq is still capable of operating and is desperate to regain lost momentum, the top spokesman for U.S. Forces Iraq told American Forces Press Service today.

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two cents worth,

Bush had unemployment that averaged 5.3% over 8 years. That sucks compared to the 5.2 % that we averaged under Clinton.

And also the present day nearly 10% under Obama is completely misleading. What you republicans don’t understand is that things are so awesome and people have made so much money in 2 years under Obama that they no longer feel the need to work- too much prosperity- and that is why we have near 10% unemployment. People are just taking some time off work because times have been so bountiful under Obama.

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Yesterday, Republican John Boehner escalated his campaign to become the next Speaker of the House. He gave a “major speech” in Cleveland — much-hyped by his staffers, who told reporters that this, finally, was the moment when the GOP would introduce its economic agenda.

After all the build-up, all we heard was another list of what Republicans are against.

Every supposedly new idea was more of the same. He wants to extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich. He wants to repeal health insurance reform. He opposes clean-energy legislation.

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The LIAR in Chief is at it again….What happened to “if you’re happy with your health plan you can keep it?”

More than 3 million seniors may have to switch their Medicare prescription plan next year, even if they’re perfectly happy with it, thanks to an attempt by the government to simplify their lives

I’m from the government, I’m here to help…just ask an Indian or military vet.

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The Bush/Cheney deregulation of the banking industry produced these greedy, selfish, cutthroat capitalist bankers. The only solution seem to be the nationalization of the banking industry. European style unionized, Democrat Socialism is beginning to look better and better. The average salary in German, France, Switzerland, the Scandinavian countries is about $35.00 an hour with cradle to grave coverage of everything. The average salary in deregulated, cutthroat capitalist America is about $14.00 an hour. Two dollars an hour more than it was in 1981 when President Jimmy Carter left office and the imposition of Reaganism-Bushite-Cheneyism. Wake up America !!!

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