Housing market, economy still deep in a post-binge hangover
Yesterday’s housing news — a July decline of 27 percent in sales of existing housing, about twice as deep as predicted — added to the sense that the economic recovery has stalled. A big part of the decline can be explained by the fact that federal tax subsidies for homebuyers ended in June. People who wanted or needed to buy a home had jumped into the market earlier, while the $8,000 tax credit was still in effect, leaving demand in July to collapse.
The fact that housing prices nonetheless rose slightly last month over a year ago, suggesting that the prices being demanded by sellers still have not come into balance with the prices that buyers are willing to pay.
(On a side note, the Christian Science Monitor has identified six cities in which housing prices are actually rising. Atlanta is not among them. In the healthiest housing market in the country, median prices actually rose 17 percent in the second quarter of 2010 compared to a year earlier. So load up your U-Haul, folks, and shuffle off to Buffalo, NY!)
Realistically, there’s not much that anybody can do to reverse the national trend. The well-intended housing credit, for example, did little more than delay the necessary correction between supply and demand. We are experiencing the inevitably painful hangover that follows a major housing binge, a disaster created by a combination of greed, corruption, bad government policies and willful, eager ignorance by almost every party involved, as the chart below illustrates.
H/T The Big Picture (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/)
Also yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office released its latest, legally mandated estimate of the effect of the Obama stimulus package on the economy through the second quarter of 2010. As bad as things are, the CBO found, they would be a lot worse without the stimulus.
According to the CBO, the stimulus package:
Raised the level of real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) by between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent, Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.8 percentage points, Increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million, Increased the number of full-time-equivalent (FTE) jobs by 2.0 million to 4.8 million compared with what those amounts would have been otherwise. (Increases in FTE jobs include shifts from part-time to full-time work or overtime and are thus generally larger than increases in the number of employed workers.)
The CBO also updated its estimate of the stimulus package’s impact on the debt, estimating that it will add $819 billion through 2019. For comparison’s sake, another CBO estimate last week put the cost of the Iraq War at $700 billion between 2003 and 2010, a number that does not include interest costs.
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472 comments Add your comment
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:17 pm
USinUK,
Keep dodging! At least your good at something!
@@
August 25th, 2010
12:17 pm
AmVet:
In 2006, Independents went against the GOP because of the war. Some conservatives as well. Most conservatives tied excessive spending to the war…results were the same.
Independents still don’t like excessive spending, and neither do conservatives. Left-wingers love it…it’s the answer to all our problems.
Happy now?
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:17 pm
“I think I’ve got it figured out…too many left-wingers suffer from ADD.”
And in return, too many self-identified conservative Christians suffer from terminal hypocrisy.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
August 25th, 2010
12:17 pm
You can blame the banks and mortgage companies all you want – but YOU know if you can make the payments. Blame someone else for your BAD choices……mmm, mmm, mmm
stands for decibels
August 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
If it weren’t going to the government, it could be going to you.
And it oughta again. Because prior to SS, Americans did such a gosh-darned excellent job of providing a safety net of retirement income for themselves.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
“No I have not ever been on unemployment… I have been fortunate enought to remain employed since graduation from college. Do you honestly feel there are none who do abuse the promgram?”
the reason I asked – anyone who has ever been on unemployment would know: you barely make enough to live (I was on it for 3 months during the dot-com implosion – it paid my rent, but that was it).
if you’re on unemployment you want a job – they pay better. and, if you’re lucky, they have benefits.
are there skivers? I’m sure there are – but I feel confident in saying that they’re the rarity, not the rule.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:20 pm
I’m here – you just go feeling all manly and stuff cuz you wanted to place a bet on an anonymous blog. you sure showed me. I’m duly chastised.
no. really.
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:22 pm
“the reason I asked – anyone who has ever been on unemployment would know: you barely make enough to live (I was on it for 3 months during the dot-com implosion – it paid my rent, but that was it).”
And then there are the self-employed, who aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits, even though we pay into the fund year after year for our employees.
AmVet
August 25th, 2010
12:22 pm
Am–Great show out in Alpharetta tonight. Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, and Boz Scaggs all on one stage.
Wow!
From Rolling Stone: The trio is still crafting the set list, but Fagen says he plans to play the Grateful Dead’s “Shakedown Street” and the Band’s “King Harvest,” while Scaggs will cover Chuck Berry and McDonald will do Ray Charles numbers as well as hits from his solo and Doobie Brothers catalogs. “I think I might also do ‘I.G.Y’ and some other stuff from my solo records,” says Fagen, “because I go out every summer doing Steely Dan. The show should move pretty fast. We’ll do one or two songs apiece and then someone else will do something.” He says they’re considering breaking out some duets, as well.
If I hadn’t already dropped some coinage to go see TR in September, I’d pony up for the $100 or so to see this one!
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:22 pm
USinUK
FYI! 50% of the current unemployed WILL always be unemployed. Their daddy and momma did it. Their daddy’s daddy and momma did it. Get the pattern?
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:23 pm
Bruno – that, too.
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
“I’m here – you just go feeling all manly and stuff cuz you wanted to place a bet on an anonymous blog. you sure showed me. I’m duly chastised.”
USinUK–I offered you 3-1 odds on my blog bet with you. What are you, scared or something??
@@
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
Bruno:
And in return, too many self-identified conservative Christians suffer from terminal hypocrisy.
And who should I answer to for that hypocrisy you see in me? Who will I answer to? YOU???
I’ll take my chances if it’s all the same to you.
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
@@
August 25th, 2010
11:58 am
Eventually? Is that BEFORE or AFTER you are eligible for them?
How about we start today. Now… no more SS…and regardless of what you paid in in the past…it’s over.
Okay with you?
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
“50% of the current unemployed WILL always be unemployed”
care to back that up …
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:25 pm
USinUK
Call L.A. they need another dodger! Let me put this in caps for the mental-retard, USinUK!
A THIRD PARTY WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL THE DETAILS!
Questions, USinUK?
Dusty
August 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
Boschie,
How you rattle off this morning. You don’t know what I mean by the “good fight”? Here you are repeating treason for Bush (like Doggone) based on pure contention while ignoring the facts. Now that is loony tunes on liberal time.
But keep on agreeing with Doggone. She will come down and stomp you with her army boots if you don’t ( and bring all her dogs to poop on your rugs besides).
PS..”Bad words” are bad whether they are traditional or not. You mean, if YOU want to use them they are OK.
@@
August 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
Saul:
The approach needs to be one of compassion. Phasing out, preparing the next generation for the realities would be the proper way to go.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
Bruno – you can offer me 10-1. 100-1 if you like.
I don’t bet.
never have.
don’t do the lottery. don’t do raffles. don’t play the dogs or the horses.
I attribute it to my mom’s scottish ancestry
(you know how they invented copper wire, don’t you? 2 scots fighting over a penny)
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:27 pm
“If I hadn’t already dropped some coinage to go see TR in September, I’d pony up for the $100 or so to see this one!”
I think they’re offering cheap seats for just $25. If the job offer comes through today, I’m going.
BTW, let me know if you want to see Jon Anderson on Sep 12 at the Variety. My treat, bro.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:27 pm
“A THIRD PARTY WILL TAKE CARE OF ALL THE DETAILS! Questions, USinUK?”
freak.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:28 pm
USinUK
Sure nibble-nuts! Just take a ride to East Point or any other ghetto and check out all the men and women living off my $$$$$$$
What’s the lowest unemployment has ever been since Roosevelt? 4.8% maybe?
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:28 pm
“don’t do the lottery. don’t do raffles. don’t play the dogs or the horses.”
Not even blog dollars???
You are cheap.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:29 pm
“let me know if you want to see Jon Anderson on Sep 12 ”
ahem … “goooooooooin’ for the one … listen in time … taken so high … to touch to move … listen to life … touching touch time … travel twilight … taken so high … ”
that’s my Jon Anderson impression … and now, my throat hurts
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:29 pm
Bruno – 12:28 – I prefer “inexpensive”
DawgDad
August 25th, 2010
12:29 pm
Economically, this country is a dying carcass being picked apart by the vultures. When manufacturing was being shipped overseas technology filled the void and fueled the economy in the 80’s and 90’s. Where’s the economic boom to fill the gap left by our exporting of technology innovation and leadership? Nothing on the horizon (”green energy” is a wealth redistribution scam, not an economic growth engine). Brace for more severe pain, because it’s coming.
Politically, things continue to get marginally better (check yesterday’s election results), but the major economic and political policy changes needed can’t begin at least until next year, after the new Congress is seated, and then it may still take 2-4 years (best case) to undue the major long-term policy damage done in the past 2-4 years. In the meantime the destruction of our economy and middle class and corruption of our institutions will continue, largely unabated, and the weaker we become as a nation the more vultures we attract.
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:30 pm
I meant financially cheap, USinUK, not…….oh well, never mind.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:30 pm
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
@@
August 25th, 2010
11:58 am
Eventually? Is that BEFORE or AFTER you are eligible for them?
How about we start today. Now… no more SS…and regardless of what you paid in in the past…it’s over.
Okay with you?
FISH ON!!!
HELL YES, just give me back what I paid, with no interest, like I was going to collect any interest anyway. Then I will NEVER ask for another dime of MY MONEY!!!
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:32 pm
I’m here – “What’s the lowest unemployment has ever been since Roosevelt? 4.8% maybe?”
the lowest unemployment has been in the last 30 years was right after Bush was elected – 3.8% April 2000.
AmVet
August 25th, 2010
12:32 pm
If you go tonight, let me know. It’s only money!
And hell to the yeah (Or should that be Yes?!) on that Sept. 12 gig!
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:33 pm
USinUK
In other words your a Momma’s boy!
I’m moving on, I have a half brother like you. Weird person!!!
Normal
August 25th, 2010
12:33 pm
The Leg Lamp is a “major award” much like Cynthia Tucker’s Pulitzer and Obama’s Nobel.
August 25th, 2010
12:01 pm
What you say is true, but only after they were fed a bill of goods through mis-information, half truths and outright lies.
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:33 pm
and with that, I’m venturing out into the rain and heading home …
Rightwing Troll
August 25th, 2010
12:34 pm
“after the new Congress is seated, and then it may still take 2-4 years (best case) to undue the major long-term policy damage done in the past 2-4 years.”
How long will it take to undo the damage of the 6 years previous to that?
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:34 pm
“In other words your a Momma’s boy!”
oy … would someone please enlighten I’m here …
and, while you’re at it, teach him grammar …
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
12:35 pm
Jimmy 62
Piffle. He lied.
Gammer
Insulting the website does not alter the truth
thomas
the brooklyn bridge was free too, the sand hogs made tons of money though
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:36 pm
I’m here…i guess that makes you a “SOCIALIST”…. regardless of what you paid in…it’s been paying others… so your money is gone. Same as it was under Repub’s… so I hope you saved. I have. I never counted on it…nor will I.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:36 pm
Annual average unemployment rate, civilian labor force 16 years and over (percent)
Year Annual
1948 3.8
1949 5.9
1950 5.3
1951 3.3
1952 3.0
1953 2.9
1954 5.5
1955 4.4
1956 4.1
1957 4.3
1958 6.8
1959 5.5
1960 5.5
1961 6.7
1962 5.5
1963 5.7
1964 5.2
1965 4.5
1966 3.8
1967 3.8
1968 3.6
1969 3.5
1970 4.9
1971 5.9
1972 5.6
1973 4.9
1974 5.6
1975 8.5
1976 7.7
1977 7.1
1978 6.1
1979 5.8
1980 7.1
1981 7.6
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
1984 7.5
1985 7.2
1986 7.0
1987 6.2
1988 5.5
1989 5.3
1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5
1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997 4.9
1998 4.5
1999 4.2
2000 4.0
2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
2004 5.5
2005 5.1
2006 4.6
2007 4.6
2008 5.8
2009 9.3
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:37 pm
USinUK
Teach you about facts!
RW-(the original)
August 25th, 2010
12:38 pm
Well I never thought I’d see this place turn into a dating service, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Good time to go run some errands before the Braves game
Later
AmVet
August 25th, 2010
12:39 pm
OK, back into the hustle and bustle.
A little Anderson from his 2010 tour.
Enjoy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP_uWGqUzFE
stands for decibels
August 25th, 2010
12:39 pm
HELL YES, just give me back what I paid, with no interest, like I was going to collect any interest anyway. Then I will NEVER ask for another dime of MY MONEY!!!
By all means, let’s make public policy decisions based on the promises of hyperventilating anonymous wingnuts on the Intertubes. There’s a plan.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:39 pm
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:36 pm
I’m here…i guess that makes you a “SOCIALIST”…. regardless of what you paid in…it’s been paying others… so your money is gone. Same as it was under Repub’s… so I hope you saved. I have. I never counted on it…nor will I.
It’s NOT voluntary! Like I’m counted on SS. It’s beer money at best!
Bruno
August 25th, 2010
12:40 pm
“And hell to the yeah (Or should that be Yes?!) on that Sept. 12 gig!”
Sound great. I’ve got a pair of General Admission tix.
A little ditty from the only Yes album that Jon Anderson didn’t appear on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8gLVjRA7f4
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:40 pm
Wanna save SS? Stop paying it to those with a net worth over 5 million$$$. They use their checks for golf cart fees. That goes for dems and repubs alike. They don’t need it… tell me how Dick Cheney needs to get SS payments every month….
stands for decibels
August 25th, 2010
12:40 pm
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
Wow. Who was President back then?
Bet his approvals were in the 30s! Bet he didn’t have a chance in hell of getting re-elected!
Rightwing Troll
August 25th, 2010
12:43 pm
And poor Dusty the unabashed W apologist who has announced here time and time again that W was one of the best presidents EVER…
She seems to think she knows something about me, when it’s her that can be so easily summed up because she sees absolutely no wrong coming from her people…(psssttt… Dusty, they’re ALL politicians it don’t matter if it’s an R or a D beside thier name, they’re all lying dogs…) But go ahead and tell yourself that Deal isn’t slimey as you pull that lever because you trust in the goodness of the R’s… bless your heart.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:43 pm
stands for decibels
You have to be an idiot to believe SS is a good thing. Do you play the lottery to? Another poor man’s TAX, only for those that can’t count!
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:44 pm
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:40 pm
Wanna save SS? Stop paying it to those with a net worth over 5 million$$$. They use their checks for golf cart fees. That goes for dems and repubs alike. They don’t need it… tell me how Dick Cheney needs to get SS payments every month….
Are you that dense! It’s HIS MONEY! NOT YOURS!
stands for decibels
August 25th, 2010
12:44 pm
Wanna save SS? Stop paying it to those with a net worth over 5 million$$$.
uh, Saul, while you’ve got a good heart:
1) it really doesn’t need “saving.” it’s solvent for now, and just needs fairly minor tweaks to meet obligations down the road. The peopel who are going on about “saving” it are really just trying to find a way to pretend that SS contributors haven’t already paid for future obligations with T-bills–basically, they’re looking for a way to default on those obligations.
2) anyone who lumps it into discussions about “entitlement reform” needs to be rendered alive for tallow. on pay per view.
Disgusted
August 25th, 2010
12:44 pm
HELL YES, just give me back what I paid, with no interest, like I was going to collect any interest anyway. Then I will NEVER ask for another dime of MY MONEY!!!
I sang the same tune many years ago. This morning I looked at my online checking statement, since it’s the fourth Wednesday of the month, and there it was: 3,000 big ones for my wife and me, paid faithfully and punctually by Social Security every month.
So go suck an egg. It will take a while to get back the $200,000 my employers and I paid in, but I like the system just fine now. And try to grow up and obtain something other than the time vision of a fruit fly.
TaxPayer
August 25th, 2010
12:45 pm
Are the conservatives/Republicans STILL on here whining because Obama has not created a job for them yet! You kids need to try and wean yourselves off the government.
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:47 pm
I’m here… thanks for posting this!
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
Reagan’s fault? If not…how is Obama to blame for the current unemployment rate and Reagan was not..
and ONE MORE TIME I’LL ASK…PLEASE feel free to explain the “Conservative Activist Judge” who wrote the ruling for the crosses in Utah…the very one nominated by Reagan. You said it was a “liberal activist judge”… so say you were WRONG and APOLOGIZE for saying what you did.
Thanks!
Rightwing Troll
August 25th, 2010
12:48 pm
uhhh… SFD social security NEEDED saving DESPERATELY in the 2000 and 2004 elections… DESPERATELY I tell you… as DESPERATELY as Iraq needed to be invaded… Now why didn’t they campaign on the promise of invading Iraq? Hmmmm…… And why was not another peep made about the NEED to SAVE SS after the 2004 elections? hmmmm…
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:48 pm
TaxPayer
How’s the East Point hood working out for ya?
TaxPayer
August 25th, 2010
12:48 pm
If you conservatives/Republicans had really wanted jobs working in the fields for $50/hour, you should have elected John McCain.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:49 pm
Saul Good
Do you pick your nose and ass as well to?
Rightwing Troll
August 25th, 2010
12:49 pm
“Do you pick your nose and ass as well to?”
Another one for Dusty posted by one of her kindred spirits…
TaxPayer
August 25th, 2010
12:49 pm
I don’t live in East Point, whiner Jr.
buck@gon
August 25th, 2010
12:49 pm
From the previous Bookem’man post: [ Americans' discomfort with the ground zero mosque has ] “become the No. 1 topic of discussion in recent days and proof positive, according to some of the posted messages, that America is indeed at war with Islam.”
From the current Booken’man post:
“federal tax subsidies for homebuyers ended in June”–proof positive according to some, of the posted messages, that the American Congress and Presidential administration is at war with the economy and the American people.
In Bookem’man world, the “some” to whom things can be accorded, are enlightened thoughtful people in the first paragraph–loony bigots and gun-toting hypocritical racist christians in the second.
Isn’t that right, Jay? Don’t you despise your fellow Georgians and their super majority opinion of the mosque?
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:52 pm
stands…I know..and you make a good point. I just was pointing out @@’s “Socialist/Communist” rant about Obama… but I can truly say…my own mom does not need to be getting SS checks every month. Most do… but not everyone. I mean does Bill Gates need to get SS checks when he becomes of age? I know he plans on giving much of his wealth away…yet still ONE DAY…he’s going to be getting checks he simply does not need.
I'm here from the Government and I'm here to help!
August 25th, 2010
12:52 pm
Time to make money, so I can retire RICH and continue to laugh at the ghetto loving group who drinks the kook-aid but the ghetto remains the same. SuckA’s!
Later!
barking frog
August 25th, 2010
12:52 pm
ihftgihth 12:36 It appears the unemployment rate
and “housing meltdown” are unrelated since the
construction/sales ended in 2006 and major
unemployment didn’t occur until 2009.
stands for decibels
August 25th, 2010
12:53 pm
Anyway, just to attend to the original topic of Jay’s before getting back to producin’—
1) From the historical data on housing prices I’ve seen going back decades, the sad fact is that housing is still somewhat overvalued. I don’t think we’ve really hit “bottom” although we might find ways to continue papering that over.
2) I think Jay is being a bit too generous with his (usual) condemnation of nearly everyone involved. I think most home buyers are blameless. Most home buyers are trying to make responsible, complex decisions about the single largest resource allocation of their lives, and the complications include school districting, future value, available infrastructure, and so forth. The banksters that rigged this game, and the politicians who were either blind to or encouraged the rigging on the other hand, aren’t being punished anywhere near commensurate with the pain they’ve inflicted on millions of Americans.
3) Undiscussed but just boiling under—we probably need to have a national talk about the real meaning of “debt obligations.” I have had enough of moralizing jerkwads trying to make people feel guilty about defaulting on impossible mortgage situations. More people probably need to throw in their keys and walk away; only then will we get the cramdowns those of us dirty effing hippies on the left have been trying to prise from the local aristocracy.
BBL. Have fun, kids.
@@
August 25th, 2010
12:53 pm
Saul:
I’m a long way off from SS. My husband never anticipated receiving SS benefits….the reason behind his frugality and rental property investments. Not everyone is as smart as my husband. Too many put their faith in government standing behind their promises. My husband sees nothing benevolent in governmental bureaucracy.
Michael
August 25th, 2010
12:54 pm
Its a perfect time for people to get comfortable in their existing homes and focus on home improvements and other upgrades that will add value to their biggest investments.
Better home energy efficiency is a great way to increase the value of your home while simultaneously save you save you money on monthly utility expenses.
Energy efficient appliances are great and sure, those GA Power dogs are darn cute, but these small upgrades are not going to translate into considerable energy savings.
Did you know your roof is one of the leading causes of temperature absorption on your home, forcing your air conditioning to continuously run and significantly increase your energy costs?
The most common type of roofing is asphalt shingles which provides zero energy efficiency and needs periodic replacing.
An alternative roofing option is metal paneling which does provide energy protection, especially if you find an Energy Star rated metal roof.
There is a great company called Energy Roofing Systems (www.energyroofingsystems.net) located here in metro Atl that offers such a solution which they claim will reduce your energy bill up to 40% and never need to be replaced.
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
12:54 pm
WASHINGTON, D.C. – With the majority of U.S. farm workers undocumented, the United Farm Workers is launching a national campaign challenging U.S. citizens and legal residents to replace immigrant field laborers. To survive, the agricultural industry would need at least half a million citizens or legal residents, UFW President Arturo S. Rodriguez announced.
Would lettuce picked by Young Republicans taste any different?
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
12:59 pm
@@
August 25th, 2010
12:53 pm
And so am I… I don’t plan on it…if it happens and I get a check each and every month…we’ll simply have to see how myself and my wife are in the future. I hold no crystal ball… but like you and your husband…we don’t plan on it and we do what we need to to “squirrel” away each and every month/year to save up a nice nest we can rely upon when needed.
Gordon
August 25th, 2010
1:00 pm
stands for decibels @12:44:
What you are implying is that there is no difference between the government actually borrowing from the SS trust fund and not borrowing from it. Only if you look at the SSA as a separate entity can you say that it only needs tweaks. If you look at it as just part of the government (as you should since the government spends the surplus and is responsible for the deficit), then the question becomes “where will the government get the money to pay SSA?” If it had not borrowed and spent the money, it would have it.
Here’s another way to look at it. If you, I, or China buy a T-bill, it is an accounts receivable on our books and an accounts payable on the government’s books. When the government buys a T-bill, it is both an accounts receivable and an accounts payable on its books. In other words, nothing.
Here’s an even simpler way of looking at it. You cannot spend and save the same dollar.
The trust fund is simply an accounting mechanism to keep track of how much one part of the government owes another part of the government.
@@
August 25th, 2010
1:01 pm
Saul:
And just so you know, the elders who vote Democrat are just as opposed to cutting back SS and medicare as much as those who vote Republican.
You oughta see ‘em wheezing over at the left-wing blogsites.
I can’t really say as I blame ‘em. A promise made by the government is as good as a promise broken by government. They should’ve seen it coming.
H. Westmoreland
August 25th, 2010
1:04 pm
Jay…or anyone else for that matter…can you define Greed?
getalife
August 25th, 2010
1:05 pm
Occupations + bush depression = teetering on collapse.
@@
August 25th, 2010
1:05 pm
For Hillbilly:
The other shoe has dropped.
Like homeowners walking away from mortgaged houses that plummeted in value, some of the largest commercial-property owners are defaulting on debts and surrendering buildings worth less than their loans.
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
1:06 pm
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
12:54 pm
Ah Granny…how would Chicken taste when plucked and have their heads cut off by those same young republicans in all of our states chicken “processing plants”…
Maybe all of those who were subcontractors building homes and are waiting for new work while taking monthly checks (while bashing Obama AND Mexicans here illegally) will “finally” roll up their sleeves and go start plucking chickens in Hall County, GA. There are jobs there for them if they REALLY want a job…or do they just want to go back to what they did in the past? I mean…pretty much ALL of them eat chicken right? So why not cut their heads off and pluck them for a living?
Libertarian
August 25th, 2010
1:07 pm
I know the economy is bad but it can’t be too terribly bad when I just tried to book a room at the Ritz at Lake Oconee for Labor day weekend and its 100% booked. The cheapest room is over $400 a night.
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
1:10 pm
H. Westmoreland
August 25th, 2010
1:04 pm
Can I? Sure.
But it’s always good to check the experts don’t you think?
Merriam Webster online says: : a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed
They did a good job on that.
@@
August 25th, 2010
1:10 pm
Would lettuce picked by Young Republicans taste any different?
Bona fide fruit picker, here.
Scout
August 25th, 2010
1:10 pm
Headline: “Morgan Stanley Says Government Defaults Inevitable”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-25/morgan-stanley-says-government-bond-default-is-question-of-how-not-if-.html
Saul Good
August 25th, 2010
1:11 pm
@@… but truth be told…. nobody has SAID it’s going away (SS)… I simply don’t plan on NEEDING it (can’t promise I won’t)…things might change and perhaps I will. But NOBODY has said that it’s OVER… Sad that a TRILLION DOLLARS was spent “over there” instead of OVER HERE… when it was a 100% waste of money. What good came of it?
Did we WIN that war yet?
barking frog
August 25th, 2010
1:13 pm
Amazing how many distrust government finance when
government securities are considered the safest financial
investments.
Scout
August 25th, 2010
1:13 pm
Headline: “Cutbacks force police to curtail calls for some crimes”
Thanks Dems.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-08-25-1Anresponsecops25_ST_N.htm
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
1:13 pm
Saul
Chicken Pluckin’ Republicans….Kind like woodchucks chuck wood…
Scout
August 25th, 2010
1:14 pm
barking frog:
“I Love My Country But I’m Afraid of My Government”
DawgDad
August 25th, 2010
1:14 pm
Saul: Social Security by definition cannot be “saved” because structurally it is a Ponzi scheme. It can be sustained, but not “saved”. Ultimately it will either collapse, be killed off, or be transformed into something other than a Ponzi scheme. Politicians that talk about “saving Social Security” really mean extending it’s viability in its current form as a redistribution vehicle, but there will always be payout risks to future beneficiaries as long as the program exists in its current form. SS/MC are liabilities to the government and taxpayers funded out of current tax revenues or with borrowing (because in truth there is no “fund”), and they always will be in their current form.
The greatest long-term hope for Social Security/Medicare is government control of health care. The leftist-Feds need to ensure people don’t live too long and further stress the entitlement programs, and health care control offers a vehicle for them to pursue that end (just like they insist on maintaining abortion access to sustain some level of population control in the welfare-reliant segments of society). They aren’t interested in people’s lives, they’re interested in enhancing State political and economic power and control over people’s wealth and resources.
Scooter (the Original)
August 25th, 2010
1:14 pm
Green Shoots, Shovel Ready, jobs saved or created, recovery summer… my GOD!
Control is being centralized by “Well intentioned” democrats in D.C. and the private sector can’t operate with that uncertainty. Jay, I’m sure you’ve heard the term rational markets when hearing about macro economics; well, the “well intentioned” ideologues in DC are defying rationality in their quest for control and power. I voted for Obama because I knew what he would do, the writing was everywhere the “media” refused to illustrate, so this is no surprise to me, but some people really have to be feeling like fools.
@@
August 25th, 2010
1:15 pm
Saul:
I’ve got sanding and painting to do. Playtime is over.
But NOBODY has said that it’s OVER
If you’re talkin’ about SS and medicare, somebody needs to say it’s OVER.
If you’re talkin’ about war, that’s something that’ll never be over. There’s always gonna be some nutjob who will invite us over.
getalife
August 25th, 2010
1:16 pm
What a mess.
Lets give them back power to finish the job.
Insane.
Scout
August 25th, 2010
1:17 pm
Headline: “Feds moving to dismiss some deportation cases”
“Critics assail the plan as a bid to create a kind of backdoor ‘amnesty’”
The will of the people ???
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7169978.html
Normal
August 25th, 2010
1:17 pm
@@,
They should’ve seen it coming.
Not true, my generation was taught Red White and Blue from day one. We are the Sons and daughters of the Greatest Generation. We Worked hard and saved some but we deserve Socisal Security; especially now that the previous Admisistration and perhaps this one tanked our economy, house values and savings. Why would you oppose us? It was not our fault.
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
1:17 pm
and some nutjob who thinks its a good idea
@@
August 25th, 2010
1:21 pm
Granny:
and some nutjob who thinks its a good idea
Reality sucks! That’s why you choose not to live in it.
Normal
August 25th, 2010
1:27 pm
Reality sucks!
It doesn’t have to, really it doesn’t…everybody could lend a helping hand instead of a slap.
barking frog
August 25th, 2010
1:29 pm
Scout, the morgan stanley geniuses compare debt
to income and see doomsday. what they are saying
is taxes are too low to support the debt. i don’t think so.
spending adjustments and war cessation will level take
care of it.
No need to fear the government, it is us.
The Leg Lamp is a "major award" much like Cynthia Tucker's Pulitzer and Obama's Nobel.
August 25th, 2010
1:34 pm
“ABC: ‘Breaking News: President Obama Says “I’m Having a Great Time” On Vacation’… ”
Wow. Good to know ABC is still out there looking for relevant “breaking news”.
barking frog
August 25th, 2010
1:34 pm
Revolution coming in November. Everybody show up.
Paulo977
August 25th, 2010
1:37 pm
Gammer @10:14am …re: 2003-2008 spending on educatio. Yeah on the anti -educational NCLB package !!! Ask the real educators not the fakes!
thomas
August 25th, 2010
1:37 pm
USinUK
August 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
It was barely enough for you to live……….
But to the person who was layed off from a job making only 10-12 bucks an hour………. the decision is not of polar opposites.
I think there are more than you think would scam the gov…
what is unemployment up to now? In some states it is over $600 per week…. though the average is around $300.
Thats $1200 month…….
I gain 2 things from that…
1. You lived in an expensive apartment and should have moved.
2. It is very easy to see how a person making around that same amount each week would fill out bogus job applications in order to stay on the $300 per week.
BTW, as a college graduate and college coach I barely make more in a month than a person on unemployment…… but I could keep my kids at home and save on day care if i didn’t go to work each day.
I think there are way more scamming the ole gov. than you think or are willing to admit.
barking frog
August 25th, 2010
1:39 pm
Scout, about the foreign debt, all payable in dollars, just
print them, pay them off. Unemployment is our only
problem. No easy,quick fix.
Granny Godzilla
August 25th, 2010
1:41 pm
who? what? where?
voices from the past?
can’t respond…..been perished to long…..
Disgusted
August 25th, 2010
1:43 pm
but I can truly say…my own mom does not need to be getting SS checks every month. Most do… but not everyone. I mean does Bill Gates need to get SS checks when he becomes of age?
If you bought a life insurance policy and later died, I don’t imagine your beneficiary would be very happy if the insurance company paid the policy benefit in an amount that depended on how wealthy the beneficiary had at the time of the claim.
Well, SS is an insurance system. It does not pay benefits according to the wealth possessed by the individual at the time of filing for the benefit, nor should it. In short, SS is not an entitlement.