Our extremists – Gingrich, et al. – boost Islamic extremists
Experts worry the controversy surrounding an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing right into the hands of radical extremists.
The supercharged debate over the proposed center has attracted the attention of a quiet, underground audience — young Muslims who drift in and out of jihadi chat rooms and frequent radical Islamic sites on the Web. It has become the No. 1 topic of discussion in recent days and proof positive, according to some of the posted messages, that America is indeed at war with Islam.
“This, unfortunately, is playing right into their hands,” said Evan F. Kohlmann, who tracks these kinds of websites and chat rooms for Flashpoint Global partners, a New York-based security firm. “Extremists are encouraging all this, with glee.
“It is their sense that by doing this that Americans are going to alienate American Muslims to the point where even relatively moderate Muslims are going to be pushed into joining extremist movements like al-Qaida. They couldn’t be happier.”
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614 comments Add your comment
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:07 pm
josef nix
I’m still wondering, though, if the Muslim leaders said “as a gesture of good will with our fellow Americans and to emphasize our condemnation of terrorism, we are moving….”
if that wouldn’t be an incredible dam-buster.
Normal
August 24th, 2010
7:08 pm
Bosch
August 24th, 2010
6:59 pm
Bosch, exactly!
When you got nothing else to say, sa BOO! Newt is really laughable.
BTW, great moves this afternoon…well done
F. Sinkwich
August 24th, 2010
7:10 pm
Lefties here in a DaLorean with the flux capacitor set for 60 or so years ago:
“We can’t invade Normandy because we’ll just create more Nazis.”
“We can bomb Hiroshima because we’ll just create more Kamikazes.”
Muslims can build their mosque at ground zero legally, but in doing so they thumb their noses at us.
RW-(the original)
August 24th, 2010
7:10 pm
I think everyone has the right to say what they feel about the situation. When it comes to actually building it, the zoning board and the funders have the final say on whether it’s actually built or not.
SoCo,
That’s been exactly my position from day one.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:11 pm
Finn
I think that brawl was just teenagers being teenagers. I saw stories that lauded the fact that they fought with fists and feet and not knives or firearms. They said that was, in itself, an improvement over past behaviors.
harvey
August 24th, 2010
7:11 pm
I am very much less worried about radical Islamists destroying this country than I am about the vast numbers of uneducated, unemployed, dependency and entitlement populations we have that are poised to keep the money rolling in to them, until there just isn’t any left anymore. And I am concerned that we have a government that tells people they are weak, dependent and need the money of their fellow citizens to go on with their lives. Things are really sick. And I am not “afraid”. I am angry.
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:11 pm
“if that wouldn’t be an incredible dam-buster”
I don’t think it would. All that would happen is that they would be “found guilty” of giving in to the “war against Islam” – thus giving the radicals a hook to hang their hatred hat on.
AmVet
August 24th, 2010
7:12 pm
It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support (are) irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society — protecting liberty. ~Congressman Ron Paul, Republican – Texas
kayaker 71
August 24th, 2010
7:12 pm
You liberals tout the majority only when it meets your needs. When the numbers don’t go your way, the majority is the enemy, isn’t it? We are a Republic where the majority does not always make the “right”decisions, unless it meets your needs. Bozo won by 52% and that was an example that “America had spoken”. But when Pelosi’s, Reids, and Bozo’s numbers are in the tank and the majority of Americans have spoken out, these polls are just numbers that the wingnuts have conjured up to prove a point. When the majority of Americans disapprove of Bozocare, your hackles are raised. “How could they disagree with us? This is just the uneducated, unsophisticated,non-elitist mass that really should not have an opinion”. “We can make all the decisions that you need for your future. Why is that not so hard for you to understand?”. The pathetic thing about this whole thing is that you really believe this bulls**t.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:12 pm
Kayaker
“Another ploy of the left to make Gingrich the enemy.”
While I am certainly no fan of Newt by a l-o-o-o-ng shot and am certainly not out to defend him, that is exactly what this is and it is playing footloose with a topic that calls for cool heads and reflection…this post and what’s coming from it are neither in my opinion…
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:14 pm
War on terror? Who’s winning? Anyone keeping score? Last I checked… we’ve created MORE terrorists around the world and terrorist attacks went up dramatically after we invaded Iraq.
I mean…what are boys like Sahid, or Muneeb who live in Iraq going to do when they become men? Little boys who saw their fathers, uncles, and older brothers beat in front of them in their own home? Little boys who watched daddy get taken away never to return… what happens to that little boy? Does he grow up with a positive view of the USA? What happens when those little boys see the comments of Newt and the Queen of all Quitters on Al Jazeera?
The building will be built… and one day it will simply be another place you walk right on by in NYC without paying attention to it… the right is rallying their base and they found their “fear” issue to scare their faithful to the polls. I mean Allah forbid they actually campaigned on an issue like the ECONOMY and their plan for CREATING JOBS… but since they have none… scary Muslims and Mexicans will have to do.
Stay tuned for the 2012 update when they turn it up a notch again….
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:15 pm
RW
I’m with you 100% then. That’s why I don’t pay any of those mouthpieces any attention. I’m not feeble minded and I can make decisions for myself.
The center is really a non-issue because it will be surrounded by buildings of similar height. The only view of ground zero will be of the new towers once they’re built. The building, the way they’ve described it, will look just like any other glass building there.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
7:15 pm
Paul, agreed. I also agree with Normal, the are not Muslim terrorists, they are terrorists. al Qeada is a political organization, which uses religion to recruit, motivate, and raise operating capital. and ironically, Newt et al are using the same tactics. it’s so profoundly obvious it makes my head spin. the primary weapon of a terrorist is fear – “nobody is safe”. maybe “they hate us” because the neo-cons stole their playbook.
@@
August 24th, 2010
7:15 pm
I always watch Frank Luntz’s focus groups. This one on the NYC Mosque was interesting. I liked the black guy (Obama supporter) in the front row, along with the other guy (white) who said “I voted for Barack Obama because I thought he was intellectually superior. I was wrong.”
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1282181534&c=1
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:16 pm
“While I am certainly no fan of Newt by a l-o-o-o-ng shot and am certainly not out to defend him, that is exactly what this is ”
and I certainly don’t agree. Go back and re-read the posts here and see how often Newt’s name has come up. You’ll find it’s not very often at all. The subject is, as it should be, the fear-mongering of those banking on the protesters…not the opinion of one man.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:16 pm
Doggone/GA
“All that would happen is that they would be “found guilty” of giving in to the “war against Islam” – thus giving the radicals a hook to hang their hatred hat on.”
I rather think no matter what we do the radicals will spin it as a victory. At least this way, it would be radicals clearly against American nonMuslims and American Muslims. It already is, of course, but at least it’d be more obvious.
AmVet
August 24th, 2010
7:17 pm
The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars. ~Congressman Ron Paul, Republican – Texas
(ty webb, note Dr. P’s use of the term neo-conservative!)
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:18 pm
Saul Good
“Last I checked… we’ve created MORE terrorists around the world and terrorist attacks went up dramatically after we invaded Iraq. ”
What’s this WE business and emphasis on ancient history? Don’t you mean the Obama Administration for remaining in Iraq and expanding in Afghanistan?
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:19 pm
“I rather think no matter what we do the radicals will spin it as a victory”
Of course they will…and that is the best reason to not give in, in ANY way. We need to be firm in OUR principles and laws, and not weakly give in to theirs.
Keep up the good fight!
August 24th, 2010
7:19 pm
Kayaker…another pathetic post with no honest intellectual thought. I’ll gladly defend your right to make ignorant statements without government interference even if 100% of the people think it ignorant. Does not mean I have to agree with you nor does it mean that we dont have a republic. We have a constitution that guarantees certain rights no matter how the masses may feel. Of course, you do have the right to change the constitution too.
getalife
August 24th, 2010
7:20 pm
We need to man up and move on.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:20 pm
paleo
I think if one asked a jihadist if their politics is in any way separate from their religion, the answer would be “No.”
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
7:21 pm
F. Sink, are you suggesting the Nazi war machine and imperial Japanese military are akin to al Qeada? are you suggesting WWII (anywhere from 30-50 million killed) has ANYTHING in common with the carefully crafted and micro-managed jobs program known as the “war on terrorism”?
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:23 pm
But if they’ll spin it any which way, then the only thing that matters, if I understand you correctly, is doing what we think is right.
Which is what both sides are doing, isn’t it? (aside from the political manipulators on both sides).
“We need to be firm in OUR principles and laws, and not weakly give in to theirs.”
Zoning authority gives permission to build a strip club. It’s been approved. Neighborhood rallies against it. Authority’s withdrawn or the owners voluntarily move. What’s the diff?
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:24 pm
Doggone
I am not talking about the posts. I’m not talking about the thread.
PAUL
I would agree with Doggone on her response to that question, but I would add that to do so would go against the stated aim of the project to begin with…I suppose that it’s the Jew-f*g-Southerner-not yet married to an Indian in me, but there comes a point where you have to stand on the principles of equality, tolerance and not back down because you ARE, as Isaac Harby said, “a portion of the people.”
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:25 pm
Doggone/GA
That 7:23 was for you -
Inspiring Minds
August 24th, 2010
7:25 pm
If some people (who accuse Pres Bush of being a dunce) can’t understand cultural differences and the responsibility of the president to project understanding, and if they want to try to invoke a little gaybashing into it
And if that dribble even remotely resembled anything that was said, then you might even have a valid point to make. But…
@@
August 24th, 2010
7:26 pm
For those leftists who argue that PTSS goes on for decades, why would you reject New Yorkers’ claims of PTSS when it comes to the mosque as a reminder of their war zone?
Just askin’. The mosque isn’t high on my list of priorities.
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:26 pm
Paul, yes WE means the USA…. since late 2001.
You can’t fight a “war or terror” and fight terrorism with conventional warfare. How does that change the minds of the terrorists? How does that not simply help them recruit more and more of them?
Just because I’m liberal does NOT mean I agree 100% with any and all this administration does. I pity those on the left or right who simply applaud any and every move their party makes simply because of their affiliation. I know many on both sides who will enter a voting both and just look for all the d’s and/or r’s and vote for those people on the ballet while not knowing ONE thing they stand for.
I’ve ALWAYS said from day 1…the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were a 100% waste on any and all levels. Not one good thing has come because of them…. they’ve cost too much…too much money and WAY too much when it comes to lives lost and families ripped apart at their very core.
RW-(the original)
August 24th, 2010
7:27 pm
and I certainly don’t agree. Go back and re-read the posts here and see how often Newt’s name has come up
Doggone/GA,
That’s only meaningful to us in the comment section. The reason for having Gingrich in the headline is to collect him up in a google search for Republican extremists.
Keep up the good fight!
August 24th, 2010
7:28 pm
Paul… Your 7:23 is not reality. If the zoning is proper, then it does not matter whether it is a strip club or church. If the authority is withdraw after granting, usually there is a lawsuit and not just someone moving on. Time and time again those who are against a “strip club” that complies with zoning have lost. Equal protection and equal rights.
RF
August 24th, 2010
7:29 pm
Am Vet- I just about fell off my chair when I read Dr. Paul’s statement. What is the world coming to when HE is the voice of reason for Republicans?
Unfortunately, as witnessed by some comments here, we are doing exactly what we shout so loudly against. We have essentially villianized every Muslim in the world, which will encourage the extremists and encourage those on the fence to become more loyal. It’s a mirror image of the Republican/Tea Party, IMO.
kayaker 71
August 24th, 2010
7:29 pm
Doggone,
“The opinion of one man”….. seems like our host has begun the bashing by calling Gingrich an extremist. During the next few weeks, the Gingrich bashing will being in earnest by Bookman and Tucker and the state controlled media. They will scour the net, sound bites, audio tapes, You Tube tapes….. anything that will make him look bad. They cannot bear to debate him because he is right more than he is wrong. No one wants to really debate him. Do you? So that failing, they vilify, demean and make him look like the Anti-Christ. I say again, if he ran tomorrow, he would beat Bozo hands down. And it scares the left into these demonic tactics that preserve, what, the worst President on record? Why do you defend people like Reid, Pelosi, Bozo and all his Czars? They are not worth saving and your ship is sinking. Ever wonder why?
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
7:29 pm
Jay: “Well, I disagree with those who claim that this is not an important issue.”
@@: “It’s kinda hard to share your concern, when your “concern” is so…..shall we say…..prevalent.”
DF: “Jay, yes it’s an important subject but its been discussed to death and it’s time to let it settle down and let cooler heads prevail, IMO.”
Jay–In the past 4 weeks alone (and you were on vacation for two of them), you have run 6 columns about the mosque, Cynthia has run 5, and Kyle has run 2 by my count. In that same time period, you ran 2 columns addressing how to improve the economy, Cynthia ran 3, and Kyle ran 3. So by a 13-8 count, the main editorial columnists at the AJC believe that Cordoba Project is more important than millions of people without jobs.
I’m with @@ and DF on this one.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 24th, 2010
7:30 pm
Damn, am I not a mind reader?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
August 24th, 2010
5:08 pm
“This, unfortunately, is playing right into their hands,” said Evan F. Kohlmann, who tracks these kinds of websites and chat rooms for Flashpoint Global partners, a New York-based security firm. “Extremists are encouraging all this, with glee.
“It is their sense that by doing this that Americans are going to alienate American Muslims to the point where even relatively moderate Muslims are going to be pushed into joining extremist movements like al-Qaida. They couldn’t be happier.”
kookman is a Muslim?
It does clear up alot of issues, just sayin…
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:30 pm
@@… I was in NYC on 9-11… I remember the whole entire day vividly and will until my last breath (as well as the following days)…i remember finally being able to rent a car several days later and drive back down here to be with my wife… no music on…no talk radio on…silence for the whole trip home… Do I care if they build there? No…and I’m a native New Yorker. It matters little to me and the whole thing is a non issue (well except for those who want to take away the “rights” of other Americans they don’t like and wish to not be here)….
F. Sinkwich
August 24th, 2010
7:31 pm
paleo,
“are you suggesting WWII (anywhere from 30-50 million killed) has ANYTHING in common with the carefully crafted and micro-managed jobs program known as the “war on terrorism”?”
Uh, the Japanese killed 2400 at Pearl. Muslims killed how many on 9/11?
So the radical muslims have to kill millions before they get your attention?
Typical leftie wimp.
But I mean that in a good way.
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:32 pm
“But if they’ll spin it any which way, then the only thing that matters, if I understand you correctly, is doing what we think is right.”
Not what we THINK is right, what is a protected RIGHT under our constitution.
“Which is what both sides are doing, isn’t it? (aside from the political manipulators on both sides).”
which “both sides”? Those for the community center and the protesters against it, or us in the United States and the radicals?
“We need to be firm in OUR principles and laws, and not weakly give in to theirs.”
“Zoning authority gives permission to build a strip club. It’s been approved. Neighborhood rallies against it. Authority’s withdrawn or the owners voluntarily move. What’s the diff?”
Sorry, I don’t see the relevence of your example. The planned community center is not, in any way, comparable to a strip club. Try making your comparison a Christian, Jewish, or any other religion…community center.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:33 pm
josef nix
Watched a movie, once. One of those cultural sensitivity ones. Title is “What you are is what you were, when.” Your post illustrates that very will.
Read a Leonard Pitts column today about Mike Huckabee that illustrates that point. You might enjoy the column. A part:
The proximate reason I say that is his recent refusal to support a knuckleheaded idea being touted by many of his conservative brethren: altering the 14th Amendment to curtail illegal immigration. But I could have said it a few months ago when he sided with Arizona Hispanics who feared that state’s new immigration law could be used to profile them. I could have said it two years ago when he dissected the Jeremiah Wright controversy with a sense of nuance and compassion seldom found among conservatives when they speak of race.
“We’ve got to cut some slack,” he said, “to people who grew up being called names, being told you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie, you have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant, you can’t sit out there with everyone else. … And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment, and you have to just say: ‘I probably would, too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder, had it been me.’”
I like Mike.”
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/23/2419950/mike-huckabee-is-more-interested.html
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:34 pm
Not that I condone violence towards animals, but….
In the past 4 weeks alone (and you were on vacation for two of them), you have run 6 columns about the mosque, Cynthia has run 5, and Kyle has run 2 by my count.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 24th, 2010
7:34 pm
The story might be even worse than that for Democrats. Everyone knows the public’s top issue is the economy. It has been since before Obama took office. So when the president and Democratic congressional leadership devoted a year to passing national health care, Republicans charged they were ignoring the public’s wishes. Now, when Democrats admit that Obamacare won’t cut costs or reduce deficits, they open themselves up to a more serious charge: they spent a year working on something that will actually cost jobs and make things worse.
They sprung the steel trap of idiocy upon themselves, once again.
They can’t help it!
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
Paul and how about the neo-con dogma? America is not a theocracy, so we tend to delude ourselves into thinking everyone plays by the same rules (separation of church and state). it’s like I said today, Hitler’s anti-Semitism wasn’t theological in nature. religion is not only the opiate of the masses, it’s the PCP/meth of the masses. it’s an excelerant.
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
“The reason for having Gingrich in the headline is to collect him up in a google search for Republican extremists.”
Sure…but there’s nothing we, commenting here, can do about that. But we CAN make it clear to anyone who happens to read this…where we stand on the subject.
Keep up the good fight!
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
Sinkwich…and what are you doing about those radical Christians killing Americans…you wimp…and I dont mean that in any good way but as a direct focus on your ignorance and bigotry.
Koch Brothers
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
We can always rely on good old Newt and his ilk to deliver our message in a most cost effective manner.
barking frog
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
well i guess i’m becoming one of the paranoid, course the luckovich
boiling frogs didn’t help, but i would like to ask exactly who have we
been fighting in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN? I thought they were
muslims,followers of mohammed. If they were just peaceful followers
of the prophet who were attacked by BushCheneyRumsfeld for no
apparent reason except using the 9/11 attack as an excuse why did
Osama and company fly the planes into the towers to begin with. Now
they may not have done that but they said they did. If the mosque
protestors push the moderate muslims into the arms of al-quaeda
tough cookies, what with the constitution protecting both sides. If
we’re afraid of that then paranoia does rule. Frankly, I don’t give a _______.
@@
August 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
Saul:
So in other words, you can’t empathize with the PTSS of others?
I’m happy for you, but what about your fellow New Yorkers? No grasp of their emotions?
Mick
August 24th, 2010
7:38 pm
kayaker
**Why do you defend people like Reid, Pelosi, Bozo and all his Czars?**
So, what about mcconnell, boehner, or palin? Losers, all in a row. By the way, you can take all the polls you want but the only ones that count are the votes. Gingrich would lose a run for dogcatcher, obama has nothing to fear with him. Let’s see, I voted – check, now its time to do some of my own kayaking in my lake..later
@@
August 24th, 2010
7:42 pm
Okey Dokey…I guess PTSS isn’t that critical an issue for left-wingers. They’re a wishy-washy bunch fo’ sho.
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:42 pm
@@… my own way of dealing with it was to come to realize that life is too short for petty BS like this issue. The right “made” this an issue over the past month… it’s been around for a while. It too shall pass and New Yorkers will carry on with their lives. Same will the rest of us… until the next “non-important” issue becomes all the rage and the headlines leading to the 2012 elections.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:46 pm
Inspiring Minds 7:25
(my post) [[If some people (who accuse Pres Bush of being a dunce) can’t understand cultural differences and the responsibility of the president to project understanding, and if they want to try to invoke a little gaybashing into it]]
(your post) “And if that dribble even remotely resembled anything that was said, then you might even have a valid point to make. But…”
Well, here’s what Matti wrote: “…when President CheneyBush..Saudi elites… Then continued kissing the behinds and faces of Saudi Royals, and holding hands, tiptoeing through the bluebonnets before lunch?”
To me, there was a remote resemblance between what I responded about a bit of gay stereotyping/bashing to what Matti wrote.
Saul Good 7:26
“You can’t fight a “war or terror” and fight terrorism with conventional warfare.”
Which is why we haven’t been doing that since before Gen Petraeus’s surge in Iraq. And why I’ve said most of the Army commanders in Afg and Iraq, and the CentCom commanders, and most of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, should have been fired.
Keep up 7:28
“Paul… Your 7:23 is not reality. If the zoning is proper, then it does not matter whether it is a strip club or church.”
You’ve never lived in an area where people didn’t want a strip club to go in, have you? Around here, there’ve been several successful blockings with no suits resulting. In one case it was actually proposed by the strip club owners to show community support.
Doggone/GA
{I don’t see the relevence of your example. The planned community center is not, in any way, comparable to a strip club}
They type of facility is irrelevant. The point I was making was, if something is legal to be built but the community opposes the local authority action.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:47 pm
BRUNO
My point precisely. And here we are falling for it hook, line and sinker…
PAUL
Thanks for that link…and I like Leonard Pitts…and I agree with him right down the line…a lot here about thought I was being plumb silly when I spoke out with great appreciation of him and First Lady Michelle Obama for her choice of his program and his gracious reception thereof in her announcement of her cause (and his) of childhood nutrition…there are some things that do NOT have a party line…let’s look for them and get something positive done…
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:48 pm
josef
You are plumb silly!!!!
The Patriot
August 24th, 2010
7:48 pm
Dear Keep Up The Good Fight,
The Only Ill-Informed Idiot here seems to be YOU and the Socialist Left You Represent. No one here of Sound Mind who reads and listens to every word I am About to say Can call me a racist, Bigot, Except someone like you who uses it as a Propaganda Tactic, to insite peoples emotions and keep them them from listening to an open debate. That being Said, The Constitution does not forbid any religion from building near ground zero, nor is anyone debating that RIGHT of all religions. The QUESTION isnt weather they have a RIGHT too. The Question is, is SHOULD THEY given how sensitive an Issue it still is to all those WHO CALL THEMSELVES an American. The Japanese didnt build on Pearl Harbour after they Killed thousands of Americans, and you wouldn’t allow Nazi’s to build a Recruitment center next to the Holocost Museum or a Jewish Temple. Nor would you allow the KKK to build a Meeting center next to a Place where they LINCHED several Hundred Black Men, Women, and children. Do they all have a RIGHT to build wherever they want YES. SHOULD THEY? NO. Your LEFTIST SOCIALIST people that you represent think it is Americans that Should Be Tollerant, yet if I went to Pakistan I would have my head chopped off for even Recommending a Christian Church be Built. In Every MUSLIM Country in the World it is Illegal to Worship God as a Christian. and in Many it is a sentence of Death. The simple fact is that it serves NO PURPOSE other than BAD to place a Mosque in that Location. IT IS A BUSINESS DISTRICT, not residential, and roughly 90% of ALL Muslims in NYC live in the Bronx where there is all ready well over 100 mosque’s in operation. As to the Imam: Do your Research BEFORE YOU SAY HE IS A MODERATE……His Father is a Founding member of HAMAS…a Group that the world has called a Terrorist group yet he refuses to call them that. He said it was AMERICANS who INSITED and Caused 9/11. And refuses to appologize for that. Yet our Prez, travels all over the World Appologizing for AMERICANS having the RIGHT TO BE FREE. HAVING THE RIGHT TO BUILD ANY TEMPLE OF WORSHIP WE WANT…….The Issue for you isnt an ISSUE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT…..YOU ONLY USE THAT to drive people to think that conservatives are racist, bigots. That TEA Party members are Racist Bigots, yet your ENTIRE POINT OF VIEW goes up in smoke when people find out that 38% of the TEA Party is Black, Hispanic, Asian, and Democrat. Even further when People do their own Homework and research 20th century Democratic Leaders and Find WOODROW WILSON Segregated the Military, Schools, and said it was in the best interest of Black Men and Women. That he Placed German American CITIZENS in Interment Camps long before Hitler was even a Thought. That FDR’s NEW DEAL RAISED TAXES SO HIGH that it COLLAPSED THE ECONOMY, and did I mention that it was FDR who Also out of FEAR and BIGOTRY through 100,000’s of American Born Asians in Internment Camps until the End of WWII. Because of their SKIN Color. And Margret Sanger (Founder of things Like Planned Parent Hood) did so because she wanted to keep Blacks and those she felt to be Inferior from Having Babies. Her first attempt was to convince Black Preachers in NYC to tell their Congregations to not have Children. When that didnt work, she went to GERMANY to learn about Eugenics(Sterolizing people from procreation) She came back pitching ABORTION…..WOODROW WILSON LOVED HER EFFORTS. Also, Common Sense People Get Really Tict Off when They Find Out It was Dwight Eisenhower(president at the time) who pushed a 3 part bill for Civil Rights and got ALL but part 3 passed IN 1957. The 3rd and most IMPORTANT PART, You Know Voting and such…was forcably removed by the Head of the Senate who told Eisenhower that he would make sure it didnt pass unless part 3 was removed. Who was the Head of the Senate? Democrat Lindon B. Johnson, who would later pass the very same section after he became president in 1967. There by getting credit for Civil Rights When it was ACTUALLY Dwight D. Eisenhower (Republican). Abraham Lincoln(Republican)…..OH and dont try to say that Democrats used to be Republicans and so forth,,,,,,thats a Lie. Previous Parties were Democrats and WIG party. The Republicans Emerged much like the TEA PARTY, about 20yrs before the Civil War, and they Wiped out the Wig Party competely, and within 20yrs they placed Lincoln in the Whitehouse and the Democrats were still the Democrats, and still wanted to CONTINUE SLAVERY. Now they want slavery still but they dont care Black or White it is Rich inslaving Poor. Anytime Government Wants to solve All of OUR PROBLEMS FOR US, they are taking away our right to be as Prosperous and Productive as we are capable. They Handy Cap Us by making us Dependent on them istead of Independent, and responsible for our Own Actions and Prosperity. Look at all Socialist societies in the History of the World, all Failed, and many catastrophically. Hince Hitler! Stalin! Lenon! Mao! it doesnt work because men are greedy.
As to the Glenn Beck 8/28 Restoring HONOR statement…..Maybe You should go. You Might Learn something. You might see People of all Ethnic Backgrounds TOGETHER for their COUNTRY to help RESTORE HONOR. It is not a Black or White Thing, it is an American thing that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. If you did You Would Be Supporting HIM. By the way Glenn Beck Isnt a REPUBLICAN he is a Libertarian. Which goes further to show your Ignorance.
May God Look Down Upon Our Country and have Mercy on Us. Sending Us someone to lead us back to the Godly Design that the Creator of All Things had Started with Our Founders. Where ALL Men were equal regardless place in society, skin color, or religion. Where everyone has a right to achieve all their hearts desire under the law. Where Government is By the People, For the People, and of the People. A place where government Protects the People, and works BESIDE THE PEOPLE, and not Ride the Backs of the People. Wake Up America!
AmVet
August 24th, 2010
7:49 pm
RF, I’ve always considered Ron Paul the perfect person to be the voice of reason in a sea of fake conservative rhetoric and pandering mental lightweights. Who else would it be? Boehner? McConnel? Delay? Frist? Saxby? W??? And as the nation so well knows, the list of recent Republican incompetents and corporate wh0res goes on and on and on and on. Which is true of the Dems as well.
Pathetic.
Like Nader he is brilliant. And like him, he has much courage.
Something OBVIOUSLY lacking on both sides of the aisle. He doesn’t, to paraphrase Todd Rundgren, “Need a bunch of political friends to feel like a real man.”
And they are both reviled for speaking out against the entrenched criminal protection rackets on Wall Street and in Washington. And for making sense…
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
7:50 pm
“Bruno: Let’s throw out this question: What steps should we take to address the deficit and our economy (two issues)? Now let’s get the easy ones out of the way: Limit entitlements, no citizenship or jobs for illegals (I’m not supporting, but someone will harp on it anyway), and the ungodly democratic administration (Pres. Obama, socialist, communist, thumb sucking, apologetic…). Now that they are off the table, what SPECIFIC items should be addressed in our economy…no meandering back to the list now!”
Road Scholar–You listed three of the most direct ways to get us back on track. To be honest, I’m pretty tired from blogging all day and can’t add any more right now. I hope some greater minds than mine will step up and help out. My point isn’t that I (or maybe anyone) has any easy answers, but that focusing on the economy should be the #1 priority of every politician and every news organization right now.
A lot of the success or failure of an economy depends on “consumer confidence”. With all of the anti-business rhetoric/legislation coming from the Dems, it’s no wonder to me that we’re in the toilet.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:50 pm
SoCo
@ 7:34
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:51 pm
“They type of facility is irrelevant. The point I was making was, if something is legal to be built but the community opposes the local authority action.”
If the owner of the proposed facility caves in to that pressure, that is their problem. They should never be “legally” compelled to cave.
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
7:51 pm
F. Sink, and we won the war against Japan in less than 4 years. we’ve been “fighting the terrorists” for nine years. I’ll concede that we are “at war” with al Qeada, but I fail to see how this equates to “war with Islam”. here’s an idea, like those U.S. Marshalls stings they set up with faux Super Bowl parties to catch fugitives. why don’t we say; “you can build the mosque, but ONLY if it is a shrine to the al Qeada victory on 9/11, and ALL al Qeada terrorists have to attend the grand opening, including Ossam bin Laden.” heck, we can even temp them with promises we’ll bring all the guys already at GITMO. this type of fear-mongering has NO bearing on our war against al Qeada. as Ron Paul and others have noted, it is merely as sales pitch to keep the ill-fated “war on terrorism” jobs program in operation (”we have to fight them over there so they attack us over here.” you know, I’ve said this before, between the hard hats and the mob, and just the way things get done in NYC, this thing is far from a done deal. in addition, I was in NYC three weeks ago, and the main mouthpiece (Muslim real estate developer) is loving all this attention because he’s still seeking “investors”. oh, and I believe he owns the Burlington Coat Factory space, but Con Edison owns the adjacent property. Con Edison has “private property rights” too”. but at the end of the day, what do you fear? do you fear this place is going to become a staging ground for future al Qeada operations in the USA? do you simply fear “disrespect” for 9/11 families in particular and Americans in general. it was noted that Muslim Pentagon employees (civilians and military personnel) have access to a chapel where they pray, including a weekly service lead by an Imam.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:51 pm
paleo
“religion is not only the opiate of the masses, it’s the PCP/meth of the masses. it’s an excelerant.”
I think there are an awful lot of religious folks out there who quietly go about their lives, trying to do the right thing, not impose on anyone, donate time and money to charities and generally get on with life.
kayaker 71
August 24th, 2010
7:51 pm
Mick,
So why do we even have elections? The majority decides these events and they are touted as our most important duty as citizens, the right to vote. Prop 8 was decided by the voters in California and put to a vote for a reason. I am not a California citizen and have no right to decide their issues but they do. Why put it on the ballot if the appellate of three is to decide rather than millions of people in California? And the vote was 2/1, failing by only one vote. How does that make the California feel about their country when some judge can defy the will of the people. You liberals got pretty upset in 2000 when Gore won the popular vote (translated…. majority) and was denied the presidency by some Florida Atty General, the SCOTUS, and that archaic Electoral College. Scream when it doesn’t meet your opinions, cheer when it does. The good old American way.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:53 pm
I hope he feels better after venting like that… Holding that kinda stuff in can cause an aneurism.
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:53 pm
btw @@… as far as PTSS… we were not attacked by MUSLIMS on 9-11…we were attacked by TERRORISTS. Were they Muslim…sure? But they were terrorists who were part of a terrorist organization.
I mean…can I “assume” (by association) that you are a domestic terrorist in the likes of Scott Roeder simply because you and he are both Christians? Of course I would never assume such a thing…so why do so many of you “assume” that all Muslims hate and want to kill Americans? Where does that come from? Can you not separate the terrorist organization from the religion? There are between 1-1.5 billion Muslims around the world…if they all wanted to kill Americans…THEN we’d have a problem on our hands to deal with…. but that’s simply not the case now is it?
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
7:54 pm
SC @ 7:34. LOL
You’re alright in my book, no matter what everyone else says about you.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:54 pm
josef
I was wondering if anyone was gonna take that plunge.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:54 pm
SoCo
“You are plumb silly!!!!”
And you’re an angry black man!!!
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
7:54 pm
F. Sink, if anyone is weak (”wimpy”) it is those who allow the irrational fears (and self-serving fear-mongering of politicians) to trump their “faith” in the Constitution. I don’t know that we the People enjoy true freedom, but the freedoms we enjoy can never be taken by terrorists. they can only be taken by Americans (Patriot Act, etc.)
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
7:55 pm
Bruno
I was thinking that was the gist of what you were trying to say. I could be wrong.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
7:55 pm
Doggone/GA
“If the owner of the proposed facility caves in to that pressure, that is their problem. They should never be “legally” compelled to cave.”
Corporate sponsors responding to MediaMatters pressure following the Dr Laura remarks?
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
7:57 pm
Reporter–I’m with you on your 7:34 as well.
In the words of James Carville “Its the economy, stupid”.
(Hope you don’t mind sharing the compliment with Carville).
AmVet
August 24th, 2010
7:57 pm
If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable. ~Congressman Ron Paul, Republican – Texas
BINGO! We have a winner! (Or is it that we’re all the losers?)
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
7:58 pm
PAUL
Don’t antagonize paleo…he’s liable to crash his t*rd wagon into your sanctuary!
Talk about hate mongers on a roll…jeeeze…
Saul Good
August 24th, 2010
7:58 pm
Paul: “I think there are an awful lot of religious folks out there who quietly go about their lives, trying to do the right thing, not impose on anyone, donate time and money to charities and generally get on with life.”
Well same goes for me being vegan and then there being organizations like PETA. I don’t get in anyone’s face nor do I try to change their hearts/mind. I feel living my life by example is the best way to show people just WHO I am and WHY I do what I choose to do (by becoming vegan)… but PETA has the idea that if they get in your face and shout at you…that you’ll gladly join their cause…some have because of their tactics… most of not.
Same goes for loud mouth preachers of ALL religions….
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
7:58 pm
“Corporate sponsors responding to MediaMatters pressure following the Dr Laura remarks?”
I’ve already said people have the right to protest what they don’t agree with. And it wasn’t Media Matters who pressured them…it was their customers who read and agree with Media Matters on the subject. MM in and of itself has no power. The power reside in their readers.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
8:00 pm
josef nix
Antagonize?
Me?!!?
Spoon Fed Up
August 24th, 2010
8:01 pm
Well you have to give the libs some credit: at least they are paying to *Some* form of religion now. So what if they start frothing and get offended at a Christian symbol in public? Or the Ten Commandments posted somewhere? Or kids praying before a football game? Hey, at least they have a respect for *Some* religion now. But it doesn’t matter. How many hundreds of mosques are already in New York City with no problems for decades? No, it’s not about being religious bigots, you silly libs.
Speaking of silly libs, that idiot Biden is being pranced around the nation on a “we’re in an economic recovery” tour. Yep, right when hot off the press news today reveals that sales of existing homes have fallen for a 15 year low, and fallen at the fastest rate in history just over the last three months. Want some humor, Democrat style? Read on:
“For eight years before we arrived in the West Wing, Mr. Boehner and his party ran the economy literally into the ground,” he said. “We’ve seen this movie before, Mr. Boehner. We’ve seen it before and we know how it ends.” V.P.
Bidenplugs and the rest of us out of the Obamafog clearly are not watching the same movie then. The economy was better during the first four years of Bush – than it was during the last four years of Bush, two of which were under a Democrat Congress which is soon about to be four years of a Democrat Congress. And there is no end in sight to this economic destruction of incompetence.
“Biden also defended the administration’s plan to let tax cuts expire for the highest wage earners,…”
Good. We will very soon get to see who those “rich” people are, or were. And then we’ll get to see the consequences.
“… while extending others for the middle class. To the charge that these decisions would hurt small businesses, the VP claimed it would affect only a minute percentage.” V.P.
What tax cuts for the middle class? Is 25K considered middle class now?
“It’s a Wall Street tax cut, not a Main Street tax cut,” he said of the expiring law. He also attacked Republicans for blocking in the Senate a planned $12 billion tax cut that Democrats had offered.
Yes, we know but how do 39 Republicans plus 2 RINOS, block anything? Are democrats this impotent?
“Biden conceded that the economic recovery was not proceeding as fast as the administration had hoped, but claimed there was “no doubt we’re moving in the right direction.”
No doubt? Vice President Biden, you need to get out more, there is nothing BUT doubt out there for you liberals and Democrats. And your team’s cute little game change from propagating “saved and created” jobs to “lives touched” isn’t going to work either. Everything Democrats have put their hands on since winning Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008 has been one disaster after another. And America is tired of it.
landry
August 24th, 2010
8:02 pm
I don’t care what islamic fruitcakes think about the newt and his scallywags, I’m disgusted by the gop using gays,immigrants,muslims and minorities to push their hatred agenda in the name of christianity, they’ve misinterpreted jesus’ message of love, forgiveness and understanding…..
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
8:03 pm
josef @ 7:54
I guess America’s lucky that I fight for the good guys, huh? lol!!!!!
@@
August 24th, 2010
8:03 pm
Huh???
DNA tests reveal ‘Hitler was descended from the Jews and Africans he hated’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1305414/Hitler-descended-Jews-Africans-DNA-tests-reveal.html#comments#ixzz0xa9nYXUX
The point? I always chalked his insanity up to being the product of incest, although the distance in relations were far enough not to be a contributing factor.
Paul
August 24th, 2010
8:03 pm
Saul Good
Letter in Dear Abby the other day. Vegan mom and dad, decided to raise kid vegan. Consulted nutritionist and pediatrician. Wanted to know how to respond to people butting in with judgment, commands, questions and general well-intentioned rudeness.
Never ceases to amaze me how people think they have a duty to intervene with others.
Spoon Fed Up
August 24th, 2010
8:04 pm
“BINGO! We have a winner! (Or is it that we’re all the losers?)” –AmVet – August 24th, 2010
7:57 pm
I’ll bet that is the ONLY thing AmVet – and fellow libs – agrees with on Ron Paul, the staunch small/limited government Libertarian.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
8:04 pm
So what if they start frothing and get offended at a Christian symbol in public? Or the Ten Commandments posted somewhere? Or kids praying before a football game?
As long as it doesn’t involve government property or time, what’s the problem?
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
8:05 pm
“I was thinking that was the gist of what you were trying to say. I could be wrong.”
SC–You’re welcome to speak on my behalf anytime. I trust your judgment that much. In fact, if I get the job in Columbus tomorrow, I likely won’t be able to blog much. I’m sure @@ and RW will be heartbroken…..
Paul
August 24th, 2010
8:06 pm
Doggone/GA
“And it wasn’t Media Matters who pressured them…it was their customers who read and agree with Media Matters on the subject. MM in and of itself has no power. The power reside in their readers.”
Ummmm….
“Dr. Laura attacks Media Matters’ advertiser boycott campaign” (from the MediaMatters website – )
paleo-neo-Carlinist
August 24th, 2010
8:06 pm
Paul, EXACTLY (non-terrorist religious people), and this includes the majority of Muslims. and by “majority” I mean, there are beytween 1.2 and 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, and there were 19 hijackers on 9/11. even if we estimaye al Qeada’s ranks at 20,000, that’s a tiny, tiny minority within the Muslim community. and sure, you’re going to get your shoe bombers and your underwear bombers (both were caught, and are currently in U.S. custody), but the connection between al Qeada and Islam is ginned up by neo-cons for political purposes (not national security). I am not diminishing the importance of effective and well-planned counter-terrorist and intelligence operations, I am simply wondering how the invasion of Iraq and opposition to a mosque in lower Manhattan dovetail with counter-terrorism?
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
8:08 pm
Bruno
You’ll get that gig. Just make sure to pack enough funk for the road depending on where you’re driving from.
Keep up the good fight!
August 24th, 2010
8:08 pm
Patriot faker…. If the Imman is so radical why did Beck embrace him, why has he been featured as a moderate on Fox…why does the 2d largest shareholder of Fox fund him….And despite your false claims and lies…the KKK can have an office next to the NAACP, the Japanese have offices and cultural buildings in Honolulu and the NAZIs can build next to the Holocaust musuem provided they meet applicable laws. A mind is a terrible thing to waste….and ignorance does not make you a patriot.
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
8:08 pm
AmVet–I’m not sure why this song popped in my mind, but this one goes out to you, George:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE6MwpEV3pU
Yes, I told you that the light goes up and down.
Don’t you notice how the wheel goes ’round?
And you better pick yourself up from the ground
Before they bring the curtain down,
Yes, before they bring the curtain down.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
8:09 pm
Paul
I kinda have to side with Doggone on your 8:06 post. For instance, Jay could call for us to boycott something. If we don’t agree with Jay, what are the odds of Jay’s boycott being successful. It’s all up to the people whether or not any type of boycott will be successful.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
8:10 pm
@@
The Hitler thingie…that’s been pretty much accepted all along (him, Heydrich and a lot of the rest of them) and it’s interesting to see DNA backing it up…there’s nothing quite like the dead whatever in the woodpille…that’s why when I hear so many going off on this, that or the other group it makes me wonder…
landry
Newt’s not a scallywag…he’s a carpetbagger…our Bruin is a Scalawag…
@@
August 24th, 2010
8:10 pm
Saul:
My understanding is that PTSS can be triggered at the mere site of one who looks like the enemy– visuals, sounds, smells, environment. I don’t know that I’d go so far as to compare it to a war zone, but then Osama Bin Laden did, along with terrorists who “just happened” to be Muslims.
I really wouldn’t know, but if New Yorkers claim to be suffering from it, who am I to deny them?
Bruno
August 24th, 2010
8:13 pm
Well, all we need is for HD to poke his head in and we’ll have the full blog band on board. Even Billy Preston (SC) is here.
BTW, any suggestions on who we should nominate to fill the role of George Martin, who is usually referred to as the “Fifth Beatle”, though that title was also given to various other musicians and associates of the band through the years (e.g. Brian Epstein)??
Is Jay cool enough to earn that title???? (risking being banned for life with that crack)
Paul
August 24th, 2010
8:13 pm
SoCom
I read Doggone/GA as saying MM doesn’t have any power, that it was the customers who happened to agree with MediaMatters.
I think it’s a tad different when you have a group organizing and sustaining a boycott or other action, especially when those ‘customers’ are people who don’t listen to the show or support the product of the sponsors.
paleo
Too late for that – about to sign off.
@@
August 24th, 2010
8:13 pm
Bruno:
I’m sure @@ and RW will be heartbroken
You don’t have as great an impact on me as you’d like to believe. Sorry if that’s unChristian like.
Good luck with your interview.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
8:14 pm
Look folks this one about the Nazis and the Holocaust Museum is not at all the same thing and I, personally find it rather disingenious…now if you want to make the comparison with the Carmelite convent at Auschwitz, perhaps…
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
8:14 pm
““Dr. Laura attacks Media Matters’ advertiser boycott campaign” (from the MediaMatters website – )”
Once again, with feeling, Media Matters can call for a boycott all they want…if their readers don’t agree and actually DO the boycotting, then Media Matters has NO POWER on the subject. The power resides in their readers.
JohnnyReb
August 24th, 2010
8:15 pm
The Patriot @ 7:48 – well said, and Amen.
josef nix
August 24th, 2010
8:16 pm
BRUNO
You best check in!
Doggone/GA
August 24th, 2010
8:18 pm
“I think it’s a tad different when you have a group organizing and sustaining a boycott or other action, especially when those ‘customers’ are people who don’t listen to the show or support the product of the sponsors”
But you are discounting the effect of people who read MM, who disagree with them, and who SUPPORT those advertisers instead of boycotting them.
Southern Comfort
August 24th, 2010
8:20 pm
Paul
I can see where you’re coming from. I just don’t agree. As I said earlier, Jay could call for a boycott of, let’s say, Glenn Beck’s advertisers. I don’t watch GB, nor do I care about what he say’s or does. Even though I think Jay’s an ok guy, that doesn’t necessarily mean I will support his boycott. There may be some who will blindly support it out of loyalty or something, but I don’t think Jay would have as much control over the success of the boycott as would the people who blog here. If we said screw a boycott, Jay’s boycott would be an exercise in futility.