Ron Paul: Mosque opposition ‘all about hate and Islamaphobia’

While I’m no fan of Ron Paul’s politics, I confess I do admire the man’s willingness to speak truth to power, even on the many occasions when his version of the truth directly contradicts my own.

On the proposed Manhattan mosque, he doesn’t disappoint:

Is the controversy over building a mosque near Ground Zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

The claim that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam, the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support (are) irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society — protecting liberty.

The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars.

The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque — a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law — in order to look tough against Islam.

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.

623 comments Add your comment

@@

August 23rd, 2010
1:04 pm

This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars.

Yep! Your left-wingers are pretty good at doing just that.

Saul Good

August 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm

“This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars.”

Actually, I’d say it’s the other way around…how neo-cons catered to the Christians in order to get their votes…and then delivered nothing to them but financial ruin.

Southern Comfort

August 23rd, 2010
1:07 pm

On this one, I have to side with Ron Paul.

Saul Good

August 23rd, 2010
1:10 pm

“Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish.”

Didn’t anyone show Ron the “clause” which omitted Muslims from owning private property in our “Christian” nation? Maybe a “good” Christian like Newt can email or fax it to him….

RW-(the original)

August 23rd, 2010
1:10 pm

Two weeks of vacation just to come back and recycle the very same topics? Oh well, if it was all about hate and Islamaphobia then the question wouldn’t be about the location of the mosque it would be about the very existence of a mosque.

Mick

August 23rd, 2010
1:13 pm

This is the talking point for the past two weeks. It will slowly morph into obama’s vacation time by the end of the week. Then, after that there will be another, the cycle continues for as long as there is a democrat in the white house.

@@

August 23rd, 2010
1:16 pm

Since left-wingers take offense to mega churches (Christian), I was wondering if this kind of extravagance offends?

LA unveils $578M school, costliest in the nation

The pricey schools have come during a sensitive period for the nation’s second-largest school system: Nearly 3,000 teachers have been laid off over the past two years, the academic year and programs have been slashed. The district also faces a $640 million shortfall and some schools persistently rank among the nation’s lowest performing.

Considering…

Robert Preston

August 23rd, 2010
1:16 pm

Mick, are you a complete idiot? Please do some research on Ron Paul. He’s not a talking head and he spent just as much time bashing the Bush administration for their missteps.

Palin fan

August 23rd, 2010
1:17 pm

The terrorists should not be allowed to build a temple near the hollow ground of ground 0.

It is that simple. Why do liberals find it so diificult to understand something so SIMPLE.

Gammer

August 23rd, 2010
1:17 pm

I like Ron Paul. Sometimes. Ron wants us to live like it’s 1890. Gold standard, non-interventionist foreign policy, etc. Problem is, there’s been over 100 years since that time period and so many things have changed. You can’t go back and undo all the things that have happened. I guess you could try and bow and apologize but how far is that going to get you?

Ron Paul better be investing heavily in the Flux Capacitor research program.

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm

@@

That jumped out to you, too, eh?

Jay

You’re gonna have disagreements in the Editorial Room. Ron Paul’s pretty much Libertarian, correct? Last week Ms. Tucker wrote a thread in which she said there weren’t many thinking conservatives left, then cited as an exception an article by a Libertarian. I pointed out a Libertarian is not a Conservative. She replied “I think libertarians would consider themselves conservative on most issues. I’m using original definitions here, not labels hijacked by various partisans.”

That point generate a bit of discussion, but for purposes of your thread, we now have a Libertarian aka Conservative slamming Conservatives.

I need a scorecard….

“In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.”

Waitadadgumminnnit… I thought it was Democrats who had the option to shut things down but opted for continuation in Iraq and expansion in Afghanistan?

(And I do think some conservative Republicans use this as a ‘rally the troops and send in your $$$$” opportunity).

But Democrats like Sen Reid and Howard Dean, both of whom oppose the citing, oppose it for reasons other than Islamophobia.

I see the theme of his piece was to slam conservative contradictions, but I do like the bit of balance he brought with his remark about perpetuating continual war and his slam against Spkr Pelosi for doing the same basic thing as the other side is doing with the mosque.

Intown

August 23rd, 2010
1:18 pm

I agree. Now, convince your sick racist colleague, Mr. Wingfield.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
1:19 pm

Jay, would support a Nazi History Museum next to the Holocaust Museum? Would support a KKK or Confederate History museum next to the NAACP headquarters?

It’s not about ‘all about hate and Islamaphobia’. It’s about respect.

Saul Good

August 23rd, 2010
1:21 pm

http://www.ajc.com/news/judge-refuses-to-block-597481.html

Macon — A federal judge on Monday declined to block enforcement of a new Georgia law that bans guns in places of worship, but he also rejected a request to dismiss the suit brought last month by a group seeking to make the law less restrictive.

Gee….looks like the workings of yet ANOTHER “Liberal Activist Judge” is trampling on our very rights to shoot people while at church… you know the kind of judge I’m talking about…THIS kind:

Charles Ashley Royal (born 1949) is a United States federal judge.

Royal was born in Augusta, Georgia. He received an A.B. from the University of Georgia in 1971. He received a J.D. from the University of Georgia School of Law in 1974. He received a M.S. from the University of Georgia in 1976. He was an Assistant district attorney of District Attorney’s Office, Augusta Judicial Circuit, Georgia from 1974 to 1975. He was in private practice in Georgia in 1976. He was a Public defender, Glynn County, Georgia from 1976 to 1977. He was in private practice in Georgia from 1977 to 2001.

Royal was a federal judge on the United States District Court for the Middle District of Georgia. Royal was nominated by President George W. Bush on October 9, 2001, to a seat vacated by Duross Fitzpatrick. He was confirmed by the United States Senate on December 20, 2001, and received his commission on December 21, 2001. He served as chief judge from 2009-present.”

I mean who would have thought that Dubya, his daddy, and Reagan would nominate SO many “Liberal Activist Judges” who have been trampling all over our rights and the Constitution itself??? Can you believe their nerve???

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
1:23 pm

Peadawg

“would support a Nazi History Museum next to the Holocaust Museum? ”

Wouldn’t a German History Museum be more applicable?

“Would support a KKK or Confederate History museum next to the NAACP headquarters?”

Wouldn’t a US History Museum be more applicable?

Road Scholar

August 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm

Palin Fan: You are simple also.

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
1:25 pm

“The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque. Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

If you’re keeping score, Jay, count this hard-core conservative as being squarely in the Ron Paul camp on this issue.

Certainly, I can appreciate many people’s dislike/suspicion of Islam, and even their concerns about the motivation of those who want to erect an Islamic center so close to the former site of the WTC. However, that appreciation pales in comparison to my support of what is good and right about this country, namely the non-Establishment clause of the Constitution.

“Congress shall make no law

1. Respecting an establishment of religion, or
2. Prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

Why so many self-identified conservatives think this law shouldn’t apply when their “sensitivities” are offended is beyond me. In particular, Kyle Wingfield blew any credibility he had built up with me as a conservative commentator with his hateful column “Europe shows the result of total insistence on tolerance” on August 18, which he ended by saying: “And they will conclude that even in America, with a prouder history of assimilation and inclusiveness than Europe has, it would be prudent to meet this outrage with something other than finger-wagging.”

NowReally

August 23rd, 2010
1:25 pm

Respect goes both ways, so the argument that it’s about respect doesn’t make since.
You have been respectively allowed to be heard and now they have respectively decided to build.
Enough Said.

Palin fan

August 23rd, 2010
1:26 pm

Road Scholar,
Like Road Island, you are neither a Road, nor a Scholar, nor an island. But you are small.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm

Paul, no not in this context. A Nazi History Museum and KKK/Confederate History Museum would be down right disrespectful i built next to a Holocaust Museum and the NAACP headquarters. That’s my point. Same w/ this mosque next to Ground Zero.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm

Enter your comments here

Road Scholar

August 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm

Peadawg and Paul: The proposed mosque is not “next to” ground zero. It’s two blocks away. By the way, how far away is not insensitive?

Jay

August 23rd, 2010
1:29 pm

So Peadawg, are Muslims then Nazis?

Are Muslims then KKK members?

That is the conclusion you attempt to push with that ridiculous comparison. You confirm Paul’s conclusion.

Joe

August 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm

The anti-Mosque issue, not limited to lower Manhattan, is not about sensitivity; it’s about exploiting peoples differences for political gain—again. It is, purely and simply, the continued and effective expansion of the Southern Strategy and fundamental misdirection–> Look at the brown, foreign looking people over there, while I break into your homes and steal your wallets and purses (via cronyism, shifting more of the tax burden from the rich onto the middle class, and a continued expansion of welfare for millionaires).

To my fellow voters who allow themselves to be played as easily as a flutophone (you know those plastic musical instruments they handed out in middle school), I respectfully request, OPEN YOUR EYES!

Tychus Findlay

August 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm

While a mosque anywhere proximate to Ground Zero is in bad taste, it’s not illegal and America respects the right to practice free speech. You can’t claim the 1st amendment and not let them build their mosque, tackiness isn’t a crime.

Michael

August 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm

Palin Fan: When will your narrow mindedness and ignorance wither away?
For those who oppose the Mosque contruction, I ask you this:
Assume a Christian belonging to evangelical church bombed a abortion clinic, claiming it was a christian act and assume many innocent men and women were killed in the process. Then assume there were plans to build a church (evangelical or otherwise) next to the site where the clinic once stood. How many christians would oppose such a construction?

getalife

August 23rd, 2010
1:31 pm

Yes, it is news when cons tell the truth.

Silly season.

Some People are Stupid

August 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm

Peadawg-

Would you support a christian church 2 blocks from ground zero?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm

Well, it’s Monday all day, that’s for sure. First this judge upholds a law that makes it illegal for me to bring the anti-tank weapon and the two machine guns I use for hunting and self-defense to church with me.

Now I learn this Ron Paul is nothing but a librul Democrat standing up for the Towelheads rubbing it in our face by building a mosque where the World Trade Center use to be.

I guess I won’t be too suprized if I get home today and the missus tells me she plans to vote for Roy Barnes.

Yup. It’s Monday all day.

The Leg Lamp is a "major award" much like Cynthia Tucker's Pulitzer and Obama's Nobel.

August 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm

Forget Ron Paul, let’s go straight ot the Imam’s mouth.

Ground Zero Imam Says U.S. Worse than al-Qaeda

The Leg Lamp is a "major award" much like Cynthia Tucker's Pulitzer and Obama's Nobel.

August 23rd, 2010
1:34 pm

Some People are Stupid
August 23rd, 2010
1:33 pm

Your post name pretty much equals your “sign”.

Michael

August 23rd, 2010
1:34 pm

Not allowing the mosque to be constructed only gives away for any community to forbid the building of a mosque and it’s already started.
Islam did NOT attack on 9/11 just as a christian bomber of a abortion clinic or the Irish Republican Army do not represent all of Christianity or Catholicism. Why is it people refuse to educate themselves and remain satisfied with this onsurge or soundbite education? WHy is it ok to seek out a Pastor or Reverand when we have questions or issues with Christian principles or dogmas, or why is it ok to seek out a Rabbi when issues regarding the Jewish faith come up and yet we don’t seek out Muslim scholars when it comes to Islamic principles, rather we assume the so-called “Islam experts” who appear on television are credible sources.

Gammer

August 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm

jconservative

August 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm

I do find it curious that the anti factions on the Islamic cultural center prefer to ignore the actual Islamic mosque 4 blocks from ground zero (Masjid Manhattan) and the other Islamic mosque 12 blocks from ground zero (Masjid al-Farah). Why are these two actual, already existing, mosques ignored but the “on the drawing board” cultural center 2 blocks from ground zero is causing a furor?

Can anyone help me on this?

Or is Ron Paul, in fact, correct?

“Sensitive” equals “politically correct”. Republicans disdained political correctness for 50 years, now they trumpet it’s use.

Property rights have been taking a beating for decades. Unfortunately, it will continue.

This controversy is also a textbook definition of the use of the “big lie” political tactic. Note the use of the term “at ground zero” instead of the truth of “2 blocks from ground zero”. Note the use of the term ‘mosque” when the truth is a “cultural center” is to be built. And as stated in the 1st paragraph, the total ignoring of the two existing mosques 4 and 12 blocks from “ground zero”.

History proves that a big lie gets more millage than the truth.

101 Airborne

August 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm

“By the way, how far away is not insensitive?”

Perfectly put. Wondering if the US was worried about the same thing concerning Japanese in Hawaii after the war ended in ‘45. No Shinto temples allowed??

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
1:36 pm

I read something recently (unfortunately I can’t remember where) that likened Democracy to a restaurant…Democracy in the United States is not like a menu that you order a little from column A and a little from column B…it is like a buffet with everything available to all.

Lima beans may make you gag, especially when they are next that macaroni salad that you love, but if you want to get some of that salad, you have to hold your nose and tolerate the lima beans.

Welcome to the Piccadilly…

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
1:37 pm

“Oh well, if it was all about hate and Islamaphobia then the question wouldn’t be about the location of the mosque it would be about the very existence of a mosque.’

RW–Why is the location of a mosque built by folks who had nothing to do with 9/11 such a big concern to you? Are you subscribing to the theory put forth by Palin fan above that this is “hollow ground” (sic).

Maybe it comes down to personal opinion, but I don’t see how the site of a tragedy makes any ground “hallowed”, including sites of Civil War battlefields or even places along a highway where a loved one was killed in an auto accident. It’s better to look forward, not back, IMO.

You’ve tried to make a distinction in previous blogs that opposition of this community center/mosque by private citizens is not a violation of the Constitution as long as no overt, illegal actions are taken during the protest. I still maintain that any such opposition is still borne out of discrimination, by the simple fact that it is based solely upon the religious affiliation of the builders, and nothing else.

Michael

August 23rd, 2010
1:40 pm

Bottom line is:
1. Do you believe Islam attacked us on 9/11? If so where did you receive this information to begin with? WHat media source or political official made this a truth in your mind? Most if not all of those who oppose the mosque believe that it was Islam who attacked us, largely due to conservative media which bombarded them with disinformation in soundbites and continues to do so. These people can only flock amongst themselves and are not able to open up to be proven right or wrong.
2. Could it be that the intensity of this one issue is aimed at disenfranchising ALL Muslims? The fact that “Obama is a Muslim” has cropped up again tells us that we are now being trained to think that a Muslim should not and cannot be President. When this goes against the Constitution.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
1:40 pm

Just so I have this down…

A community center 2 blocks from ground zero = bad

Ladies shaking their giggly parts 3 blocks from ground zero = Appropriately reverent

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/08/19/for-strip-clubs-near-ground-zero-its-business-as-usual-amid-mosque-uproar/

Saul Good

August 23rd, 2010
1:40 pm

Michael is 100% right here. We were NOT attacked by Islam on 9-11…we were attacked by TERRORISTS who were part of a terrorist organization.

For all those who try to make the point that ALL Muslims are terrorists… that would also mean that ALL Christians are exactly like Timothy McVeigh.

RW-(the original)

August 23rd, 2010
1:41 pm

RW–Why is the location of a mosque built by folks who had nothing to do with 9/11 such a big concern to you?

It isn’t, but I don’t think for a second that will deter your constant efforts to lie about my positions.

Matti

August 23rd, 2010
1:42 pm

Welcome to the Piccadilly…

Ewwww!

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
1:43 pm

Peadawg

“Paul, no not in this context. A Nazi History Museum and KKK/Confederate History Museum would be down right disrespectful i built next to a Holocaust Museum and the NAACP headquarters. That’s my point. Same w/ this mosque next to Ground Zero.”

Yes, they would be disrespectful.

But what’s being built is an Islamic place of worship and cultural center, not a jihadist place of worship or an al Qaeda Cultural Center. Jihadists are a subset of Islam, just as the Nazis are a subset of Germans and KKK and Confederacy is part of US history.

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
1:44 pm

“The anti-Mosque issue, not limited to lower Manhattan, is not about sensitivity; it’s about exploiting peoples differences for political gain—again.”

Michael–I find particularly repulsive the trumpeting of this issue by Newt Gingrich, who by all accounts is trying to make a serious run at the Presidency. I say this as a Newt supporter, not as a Newt hater. IMO, he is one of the more intelligent conservatives out there, until this issue came along.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
1:45 pm

Matti,

“Ewwww!”

With the first boomers about to hit full ss retirement age…methinks the Piccadilly would be a great investment…I just wouldn’t eat there.

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm

Welcome back, jewcowboy -

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
1:47 pm

Paul,

You as well…I feel like we’ve all had a vacation :)

101 Airborne

August 23rd, 2010
1:49 pm

To all of the “Islamophobes”: please explain to me how this particular religion has become the great big boogey-man that I should fear?
Like so many on this blog have correctly pointed out, the fact that the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim does in no way suggest that their religion is wholly to blame for that tragedy. Yes, I am a christian of Lutheran/Baptist upbringing and I do not for one second believe the tripe spewing from the mouths of ignorant people like a certain minister in Florida who chose to decorate the front lawn of his parish church with a sign reading ‘Islam is the word of the Devil’.

Judging how many of you who are so frightened by all of this, I would almost venture to assume that because my grandfather served in the German Wehrmacht (specifically a Panzergrenadier unit), people like you would view me in a similar negative light.

Grow up and educate yourselves! Oh, and by the by, don’t use the soundbites on TV as the primary source for your research.

stands for decibels

August 23rd, 2010
1:50 pm

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to concur with Ron Paul, except to say I’m glad he’s willing to say this.

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
1:51 pm

“don’t use the soundbites on TV as the primary source for your research.”

But, but, but what else is there?

:-)

harvey

August 23rd, 2010
1:51 pm

The economy is truly the issue and there is no sign that it will get any better anytime soon. I think what is getting people’s goats is that the President fails to attend the national prayer breakfast, or lay the wreath at Arlington, but can find time for a Ramadan Dinner at the white house, spend tp money on an iman to travel promoting Muslim faith, direct NASA to use its resources to promote Muslim contributions to technology etc, etc. They are just beginning to wonder. We are also hearing so much about what muslims are doing in European countries, and their threats against those who would speak against them. Kind of scary. Fear is natural in this situation.

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
1:52 pm

jewcowboy

I wouldn’t exactly describe a self-imposed exile at Ms Tucker’s as a vacation. Some interesting types show up there -

But I’m glad you got to relax.

Walked into this store in Dublin, saw a couple of hats and sportcoats and thought of you -

http://www.kevinandhowlin.com/

stands for decibels

August 23rd, 2010
1:52 pm

how far away is not insensitive

I sure would like to hear the an answer to that one.

I’d also like for some large media outlets to acknowledge that they totally screwed the pooch on this one, with their blaring headlines about the “Ground Zero Mosque” that a) isn’t a mosque, and b) isn’t at the actual site of the World Trade center.

Come to think of it, Jay, why do you keep using the term “Mosque?” do we call the 92nd Street Y a “church?”

stands for decibels

August 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm

I sure would like to hear the an answer to that one.

I’d like to hear the definite article answer as well.

(oy.)

Where's My Party?

August 23rd, 2010
1:54 pm

The emotionalist have taken over both ends of the spectrum. This country needs a statesman (or stateswoman) who is can bring back some sane and common sense leadership. This country needs a leader and both parties offer up nil at this point.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
1:55 pm

I think they should leave it as a shrine to all those who have had to endure the shame of shopping in a Burlington Coat Factory as a child while all the other kids got their coats at Merry Go Round or the Chess King.

RW-(the original)

August 23rd, 2010
1:55 pm

sfb,

Add another e to the and you could almost pull it off as Olde English.

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm

Paul!

DUDE!!! Check out that guys’ haircut at the bottom! How……1980 of him. Cool looking threads though.

BIG_DAWGZ

August 23rd, 2010
1:56 pm

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION!

IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS, MILITANT AND BARBARIC CULT, WHOSE CORE PRINCIPLES ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH THE PRINCIPLES OF THE UNITED STATES. MOSQUES ARE MILITARY CENTERS AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ANYWHERE.

ISLAM DOES NOT ALLOW FOR:

-FREEDOM OF SPEECH
-FREEDOM OF RELIGION
-IMPOSES CRUEL & UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT (HOMOSEXUALS ARE TO BE KILLED, FORNICATORS WHIPPED, THIEVES TO HAVE HAND CHOPPED OFF)
-THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE UNDER ISLAM

PEDOPHILIA IS ACCEPTABLE UNDER ISLAM, BECAUSE THAT IS THE EXAMPLE THAT MUHAMMAD PROVIDED, WHO MARRIED A 7 YEAR OLD GIRL AND CONSUMMATED THE MARRIAGE! COMPARE THAT TO THE EXAMPLE THAT JESUS PROVIDED – SINLESS!

TO READ MORE ON WHAT ISLAM TEACHES, GOOGLE: TOP TEN REASONS WHY SHARIA IS BAD FOR ALL SOCIETIES

GOOGLE: PAMPHLETS FOUND IN AMERICAN MOSQUES

THE IMAM AT THIS MOSQUE WANTS TO IMPLEMENT SHARIA/ISLAMIC LAW HERE IN THE U.S. DOES THIS SOUND “FRIENDLY” TO YOU?

THE NAME OF THE MOSQUE IS GOING TO BE CALLED “CORDOBA HOUSE,” WHICH IS THE NAME OF A TOWN IN SPAIN WHERE MUSLIMS ATTACKED IT, DESTROYED IT, DESTROYED A CHURCH THERE AND BUILT A MOSQUE ON TOP OF IT! DOES THIS SOUND “FRIENDLY” TO YOU?!

MOSQUEs AT GROUND ZERO ARE UNDOUBTEDLY POLITICAL AND MILITARY CENTERS FOR ISLAM! PERIOD.

larry

August 23rd, 2010
1:57 pm

A community center 2 blocks from ground zero is bad
Introducing Muslims to Playboy and Penthouse is good ?

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
1:58 pm

“It isn’t, but I don’t think for a second that will deter your constant efforts to lie about my positions.”

RW–If the location of the center is no concern to you, then why have you written several posts “explaining’ the reasoning behind those who do oppose it on the grounds of “sensitivity”? And not one post “explaining” the reasoning behind those who support it based on the letter and spirit of the law?

Kind of like your claim that your statement last November that “All I saw was them saying that people of faith should have a voice too and not be shunned as pariahs for the good of Bruno’s political party” is not tacit support for the position taken.

I guess I’ll have to leave it up to others how your words should be interpreted, but the positive/negative connotations of the particular words chosen implies your position, even if you don’t have the courage to state it explicitly.

larry

August 23rd, 2010
2:00 pm

barking frog

August 23rd, 2010
2:00 pm

In Iraq street vendors are now peddling porn,
never happened before we invaded, look at the
christians,jews,hindus,buddhists,shintoists,
wiccans,and any other organized religion and
you will see how they have been democratized
or Americanized. Islam in America will not be
the same as anywhere else. That’s just what we do.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:02 pm

“So Peadawg, are Muslims then Nazis?”

LOL no.

“Are Muslims then KKK members?”

Again, LOL no.

“That is the conclusion you attempt to push with that ridiculous comparison”

Wow, you need a parachute to make that kind of leap. Nowhere did I say Muslims are Nazi’s. It’s not a ridiculous comparison. All 3 are disrespectful and I wouldn’t support any of them.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 23rd, 2010
2:02 pm

This country needs a statesman (or stateswoman) who is can bring back some sane and common sense leadership. This country needs a leader and both parties offer up nil at this point.

Ladies and gents, I give you My President, George W. Bush.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm

Paul,

Very nice! I actually finally broke down and purchased a Brigg umbrella. The real estate agent in London had one, and I fell in love with it, but it seemed a bit of a luxury. I finally gave in. I won’t be eating out for a while: http://www.european-umbrellas.com/brigg/brigg.php

Been hanging out at Cynthia Tucker huh? I just chose Jay’s hiatus as a chance to disengage for a while…

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm

Peadawg,

You doofus — Paul and Jay are trying to make you see that your ridiculous comparison — you are basically equating Muslims to the KKK and Nazis.

John K

August 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm

Even the strippers on the Hallowed Ground support the Community Center/Mosque.

Stonethrower

August 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm

Hey Peadawg and BIG_DAWGZ, there are graves in Arlington National Cemetery with the Islamic Crescent on them. Whats say we dig those bad boys up and replace them with the true Cross.

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm

sfd

” how far away is not insensitive

I sure would like to hear the an answer to that one.”

Good question for Sen Reid or Howard Dean -

Bosch

1980s?

Saw some of it there.

“Let’s do the time warp agaiiiin!”

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm

Paul,

And now I know where to get a good Shillelagh :)

RW-(the original)

August 23rd, 2010
2:06 pm

RW–If the location of the center is no concern to you, then why have you written several posts “explaining’ the reasoning behind those who do oppose it on the grounds of “sensitivity”?

Bruno,

So why don’t you find some of those posts where I “explain” these positions rather than rely on that same old out of context thing from nearly a year ago that you drag around.

My position is that they have every right to build there and the people who oppose have every right to voice their opposition. Not exactly a difficult and highly nuanced position.

Out for a bit. See y’all here later or upstairs if we move on to Palin bashing.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:07 pm

“you are basically equating Muslims to the KKK and Nazis.”

LMAO! No I’m not. Nice try though. Again, here ya go

http://www.aeroconsystems.com/chutes/P28_foot.htm

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
2:08 pm

jewcowboy

Once in a while you need to do something nice for yourself, with no guilt. And as far as the $$$$…. I once remarked that the most expensive shirt I ever bought cost 15 bucks. ‘Cause when I got home, I never wore it. Over the years it’s quite reasonable. I bought a Simpson’s shaving brush. Use it nearly every day. Got over the $$$ regret pretty quickly.

Still have the Audi?

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:09 pm

Peadawg,

“Paul, no not in this context. A Nazi History Museum and KKK/Confederate History Museum would be down right disrespectful i built next to a Holocaust Museum and the NAACP headquarters. That’s my point. Same w/ this mosque next to Ground Zero.”

Yes, you are, doofus.

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
2:10 pm

“The emotionalist have taken over both ends of the spectrum. This country needs a statesman (or stateswoman) who is can bring back some sane and common sense leadership. This country needs a leader and both parties offer up nil at this point.”

WMP–You have just asked the $64,000,000,000,000 question. Is our country fresh out of outstanding people to lead the way for us?? Are our current financial problems so great that no one has a clue?? Obama and company have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me that they have no clue, but I don’t see any answers coming from the Right side of the aisle either, just a lot of diversionary sham moral posturing about stuff that affects only a small handful of people.

Jay made a point a few weeks ago to claim that “Until GOP stops believing in magic, adult discussion is impossible”, yet I see no adult discussion coming from his crew either about the stark financial realities we are facing. Rather than use his bully pulpit to advance some solutions, he’d rather spend 80% of his columns trying to discredit conservatives.

Saul Good

August 23rd, 2010
2:11 pm

Actually stands for decibels , you’d have to call the 92nd Street Y a synagogue. ;-)

Harvey: You stated:
“The economy is truly the issue and there is no sign that it will get any better anytime soon. I think what is getting people’s goats is that the President fails to attend the national prayer breakfast, or lay the wreath at Arlington, but can find time for a Ramadan Dinner at the white house, spend tp money on an iman to travel promoting Muslim faith, direct NASA to use its resources to promote Muslim contributions to technology etc, etc. They are just beginning to wonder. We are also hearing so much about what muslims are doing in European countries, and their threats against those who would speak against them. Kind of scary. Fear is natural in this situation.”

You’re right Harvey…it’s ALL about “fear”… it’s exactly how the right sold the Iraq war…by selling “fear” to their base and building their support. You say “getting people’s goats”…well Harvey, it’s not getting EVERYONE’S goats…just some people. There are many of us who simply don’t care and see it as a non issue. The BIGGER ISSUE I and many have is to WHY those who talk so highly about the Constitution and “taking us back to it”…are the very one’s who wish to deny people’s rights to practice their religion freely or own private property. Not ALL people…just MUSLIM people. There’s something very very wrong with that…and the worst part is…they don’t see it.

Yes Harvey…that “fear” is meant to distract you from the very first thing you spoke about. The “economy”…because the right can’t win on their record when it comes to the economy and no plan but to put in place the very tax cuts we already have in place…so they need a “distraction” for their base… and they’ll play it to them as if this is somehow “patriotic”… to stand up against the terrorists. No Harvey… by the reaction from the right…the terrorists did exactly what they planned on doing. They created “fear” in many…and that means they “WON”….

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:11 pm

Oh, this is RON Paul, not Rand Paul having a sane moment. Okay, good. His son should pay attention.

Paul

August 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm

Bosch

Actually, I was trying to make the point that what’s being proposed is not an al Qaeda Center or a Jihadist House of Worship. It’s Muslim. It’s overarching. So in parallel with that, near a Nazi Death Camp would be a proposal for German History – not a Nazi memorial.

jewcowboy

GREAT umbrella!

What’s the handle?

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
2:13 pm

larry,

“I guess, even in Iraq, sex sells …..”

It’s only a matter of time before they are selling the “Spurt Locker” and “In Elah’s Valley.”

stands for decibels

August 23rd, 2010
2:14 pm

Good question for Sen Reid or Howard Dean

Indeed.

Reid, at least I get that he thinks he has to make like a knuckle dragger to win (I think he’s actually making it more likely that he’ll lose given that his spinelessness will only come back to bite him), but what on earth is Dean’s excuse?

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:14 pm

“Yes, you are, doofus.”

Ok, how about some Japanese statue, monument, temple, whatever being built at Pearl Harbor?

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:16 pm

Paul@ 2:12,

Yeah, and Peadawg is being a doofus as usual.

barking frog

August 23rd, 2010
2:17 pm

Iran now has weapons of mass destruction. and
the 50,000 wait….

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
2:17 pm

“Ok, how about some Japanese statue, monument, temple, whatever being built at Pearl Harbor?”

Peadawg–Is your value system so fragile that you can’t tolerate anyone who doesn’t share it?

RW-(the original)

August 23rd, 2010
2:17 pm

sfb @ 2:14,

Not that I agree, but you answered your own question at 1:50.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
2:18 pm

Paul,

“Still have the Audi?”

For now…i tried to trade it for a 2011 Fiesta…2 dealers declined b/c of the price differential…now I just don’t want to deal with it…

Good point about the cost vs use aspect…with all the rain Atlanta has been getting…I should recoup the investment quickly.

barking frog

August 23rd, 2010
2:18 pm

How about we build a tribute to airmen at
Hiroshima and Nagasake.

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm

Bruno,

“Peadawg–Is your value system so fragile that you can’t tolerate anyone who doesn’t share it?”

Apparently.

Don't forget

August 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm

Catholics shouldn’t build churches near playgrounds. It’s just too soon.

tscali

August 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm

bottom line–the 9-11 memorial should go up before the islamic center.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:20 pm

“you can’t tolerate anyone who doesn’t share it?”

No, I can’t tolerate someone being disrespectful and insensitive.

Don't forget

August 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm

So what about the protests against building mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California and, I think, Georgia? What’s the concern there?

Bosch

August 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm

“No, I can’t tolerate someone being disrespectful and insensitive.”

Like you are being to Muslims, Peadawg aka. doofus.

jewcowboy

August 23rd, 2010
2:22 pm

“the 9-11 memorial should go up before the islamic center.”

Talk to the Port Authority and Larry Silverstein…they’ve had nearly a decade.

barking frog

August 23rd, 2010
2:22 pm

How about a synagogue or church at the saddam statue site?

Bruno

August 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm

“No, I can’t tolerate someone being disrespectful and insensitive.”

Fair enough, but you seem to be overlooking the fact that “respect” and “sensitivity” lie in the eye of the beholder and, as such, cannot form the basis for our legal system.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm

“Like you are being to Muslims”

They can build a Mosque anywhere they want. Why pick that specific spot? Why are they so against moving it? They are the ones being insensitive. Not me.

Peadawg

August 23rd, 2010
2:24 pm

“So what about the protests against building mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California and, I think, Georgia? What’s the concern there?”

I have no idea.

larry

August 23rd, 2010
2:24 pm

Can we cool it with the name calling? This isnt Cynthia’s place.