GAO report offers a hint of what school vouchers would do

Advocates of school-voucher programs often wax eloquent about the benefits of the free market, explaining how in an open market, private for-profit schools will compete to provide the best education at the lowest cost. Some even argue against regulation of such schools, believing that market forces should be sufficient to drive out those that perform badly.

As it happens, we’ve been running a rather large experiment involving just that kind of arrangement. In 2009, 1.8 million students were enrolled in for-profit colleges around the country, up from just 365,000 just a few years ago. Most of those students are armed with what amounts to a government-funded voucher, in the form of federal student loans or Pell grants. Last year alone, students at for-profit colleges received more than $4 billion in Pell Grants and more than $20 billion in federal loans.

The Government Accountability Office has been investigating how well that money is being used. It sent undercover applicants to 15 for-profit colleges in six states and the District of Columbia, and found that “all 15 made deceptive or otherwise questionable statements” to its investigators. Thirteen of the 15 “gave our applicants deceptive or otherwise questionable information about graduation rates, guaranteed applicants jobs upon graduation, or exaggerated likely earnings.” Four colleges recommended that students perpetrate outright fraud in applying for federal aid.

GAO investigators also looked into the value that students were getting from for-profit colleges. What they found wasn’t any prettier:

“Programs at the for-profit colleges GAO tested cost substantially more for associate’s degrees and certificates than comparable degrees and certificates at public colleges nearby. A student interested in a massage therapy certificate costing $14,000 at a for-profit college was told that the program was a good value. However the same certificate from a local community college cost $520.”

One small beauty college told an undercover applicant that barbers can earn $150,000 to $250,000 a year. Another told an undercover applicant that “student loans were not like car loans because ‘no one will come after you if you don’t pay.’” As the GAO noted, “in reality, students who cannot pay their loans face fees, may damage their credit, have difficulty taking out future loans, and in most cases, bankruptcy law prohibits a student borrower from discharging a student loan.”

gaochartIn fact, as the GAO found in a report a year ago, students at proprietary colleges are far more likely to default on their federal loans, costing the federal treasury billions and putting students who were trying to better themselves in a much deeper financial hole.

Clearly, these schools aren’t producing the free-market educational nirvana that voucher enthusiasts envision. In fact, rather than compete in terms of quality or value, the schools have decided that the best way to build their business and put seats into chairs is through very aggressive marketing.

In another part of their investigation, GAO undercover students went on the Web to fill out forms suggesting that they might be interested in exploring certain degree programs. The response was eye-opening:

“Within minutes of filling out forms, three prospective students received numerous phone calls from colleges. One fictitious prospective student received a phone call about enrollment within 5 minutes of registering and another 5 phone calls within the hour. Another prospective student received 2 phone calls separated only by seconds within the first 5 minutes of registering and another 3 phone calls within the hour. Within a month of using the Web sites, one student interested in business management received 182 phone calls and another student also interested in business management received 179 phone calls.”

So yes, by all means, let’s abolish “government schools,” give parents vouchers and let the free market work its wonders on behalf of America’s children. What could go wrong?

290 comments Add your comment

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:07 am

“student loans were not like car loans because ‘no one will come after you if you don’t pay.’”

that used to be the case, though, right?

Kamchak

August 4th, 2010
11:08 am

Sham-Wow U. where you’ll soak up twice the knowledge.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:11 am

NO!!!

but, Jaaaayyyyyy, the free market is PERFECT … didn’t you get the memo?

barking frog

August 4th, 2010
11:11 am

It’s not necessary to abolish public schools to give parents vouchers
so they can choose which schools their children will attend. No one
is satisfied with the current public school system. What could go right?

Buckagon

August 4th, 2010
11:11 am

Hmmm. Yes, the President, and all of the American population seems to be enthralled with Harvard and Ivy League educations. We have idiot reporters, “journalists” and pundits from Penn State. We definitely should do away with vouchers. Why Jay Bookman shows us that ONLY educations from government schools produce original thinking!

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:13 am

Isn’t profiting off people getting an education just a little bit less creepy than profiting off people getting sick?

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:13 am

“Why Jay Bookman shows us that ONLY educations from government schools produce original thinking!”

um. no. nice try, but that’s not what the article said.

try READING the post first before commenting.

Kamchak

August 4th, 2010
11:14 am

Maybe they can start bundling education derivatives, then start betting on how many students will fail.

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:15 am

Finn, the bigger problem is profiting from people NOT getting an education.

Jefferson

August 4th, 2010
11:15 am

The whole concept of a student load is asking for trouble. Collateral ?

Jefferson

August 4th, 2010
11:15 am

Loan that should be.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:16 am

We should just boil college down to one thing – football.

Let the Asian people school their kids and create upstanding workers, we gots pigskins to toss around.

TheCrooksAreStillAtIT

August 4th, 2010
11:16 am

It’s all true, because I have relatives who decided to take this short cut and end up financially bankrupt. They lie about the ability to get jobs and the dollar amount of starting salaries. These people are in this for the money and they do not care if their students are hurt in the process. There are many handing out degrees or certificates that are worthless.

They play on peoples vulnerablities such as attending school at night and completing the programs faster than the traditional 4 year college or technical schools.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:17 am

Finn – football and the greek system … pigskins to throw and beer to drink.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:18 am

Jay, you are correct.

I wish people would ask around before they sign up for those internet colleges. A college degree can be a huge detriment if it gets you no job but sticks you with a boatload of debt.

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:21 am

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh…………Kam, don’t give them any ideas.

RW-(the original)

August 4th, 2010
11:21 am

So at least one of the fifteen colleges was a hair dressing school and we’re supposed to use this to claim that primary education is only viable in the hands of government?

And in an oh by the way moment, I don’t believe the proponents of vouchers among the general population want to abolish government schools and replace them with vouchers. They mostly want vouchers to move from failing government schools, where those exist, to move their children to a better performing school. What is about you anti-choicers anyway?

jm

August 4th, 2010
11:21 am

There’s a difference between private non-profit schools and for-profit schools, if properly regulated.

In my opinion, vouchers are fine as long as the private schools that take them are willing to accept students based on lottery (ie, they randomly get students interested in going there, they don’t get to select the best and brightest only), not applications.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:22 am

Just got off a company-wide conference call. The territory I work in is up 11% year to date!! Keep drinking the liquor people!

And remember, beer and wine are a waste of your money!

Saul Good

August 4th, 2010
11:22 am

Finn McCool: “We should just boil college down to one thing – football.

Let the Asian people school their kids and create upstanding workers, we gots pigskins to toss around.”

Yups…let me know when being the head of the science department pays the same as “that guy” from UGA who got a DUI while having panties in his lap.

How can “athletic directors” make more $$$ compared to the other professors???

There is something SO wrong with that…that I don’t even know where to start. :(

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:23 am

I have noticed that these for-profit schools have sprung up like weeds in the last ten years, especially around Atlanta.

RW-(the original)

August 4th, 2010
11:24 am

Good golly Miss Molly, Obama is back in the TV box again. Apple is gonna have to build a bigger Ipod for him to give as gifts if he’s still loading them with all his speeches.

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:25 am

you’re right, jm. but the advocates of “school choice” reject that notion immediately. As to RW’s point, remember what happened when legislators proposed that Clayton County students be allowed to transfer to other, better performing districts? Those other districts went nuts at the very idea, and the effort ended.

jm

August 4th, 2010
11:25 am

The for profit schools just need some tighter regulation and oversight. And the accreditation folks need to get their act together.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2010
11:25 am

How can “athletic directors” make more $$$ compared to the other professors???

Because We the People tolerate the taxpayer subsidization of a farm system for the NFL and NBA.

barking frog

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

Also, let’s stop honorary degrees, we all know that
someone with 30 yrs of experience, at the top of
their field, is not as good as someone who attended
the school, so there’s no need to pretend.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

Finn – 11:22 – and I highly recommend you start with this:

http://smittenkitchen.com/2010/07/porch-swing/

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

And if these schools arent regulated, or not regulated properly ………………a lot of people will get hurt . If that hasnt happened already .

jewcowboy

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

“So yes, by all means, let’s abolish “government schools,” give parents vouchers and let the free market work its wonders on behalf of America’s children.”

Wait a second here…who is going to pay for this…I don’t have children so my taxes shouldn’t go to educating some commie kids who always walk on my lawn…If they want their kids educated, they need to pay for it themselves…

Did I channel the libertarian thought process correctly?

MaJo

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

Free markets can do no right, government can do no wrong. Free markets are full of corruption and thievery, government is noble and only wants the best for the people. We get it, Jay.

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:26 am

BTW folks, just a heads up. I’m taking off Friday for two weeks of whitewater rafting, fishing and general mischief-making out West.

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2010
11:27 am

Re-education camps for those who use the term “government schools.” For or against?

ty webb

August 4th, 2010
11:27 am

because the athletic director generates more money for the university than the head of the science department. Afterall, ESPN doesn’t air biology labs, and Nike doesn’t sell UGA Bunsen Burners.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:28 am

dammit, jay … NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

can you get your daughter to fill in? post some of her gorgeous pics?

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:29 am

No MaJo, you clearly do NOT get it, because nothing I’ve ever written suggests any such thing.

For a lot of things, probably even most things, the free enterprise system is a much more efficient way to get things done.

But MOST things are not ALL things.

Kamchak

August 4th, 2010
11:29 am

larry

If I can think of it, I’m sure that there are more unscrupulous people than i that have this already in place. Even as we blog there is a plan in the pipeline for a derivatives market in regard to motion pictures—betting on the next blockbuster or betting on the next Gigli

RW-(the original)

August 4th, 2010
11:29 am

BTW folks, just a heads up. I’m taking off Friday for two weeks of whitewater rafting, fishing and general mischief-making out West.

Do we at least get a new trout picture?

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:30 am

“because the athletic director generates more money for the football program than the head of the science department”

there. fixed yonder typo

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:30 am

She’s coming too, USnUK, at least for the first week. Then it’s off to grad school for her.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:30 am

dang, Jay vacations more than Dubya ever did!

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:30 am

can you get your daughter to fill in? post some of her gorgeous pics?

I can hear her now………………………….Dadddddddddyyyyyyyy, get back hereeeeeeeeeeee.

These people are crazy. LOL!

ty webb

August 4th, 2010
11:31 am

UsinUK,
nice try, but what I said is true. The AD generates more money for the University than the head of the science department.

Jefferson

August 4th, 2010
11:31 am

Hard to hide money there Mr whitewater main.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:32 am

rock on, Jay – how great that you’ve been able to have so much time together this summer!

Hootinanny Yum Yum

August 4th, 2010
11:34 am

Name the for-profit colleges the undercover investigators targeted. If they are the same type of “colleges” that advertise on TV during the Jerry Springer Show, the court shows, Cheaters, etc.; the investigation is worthless. Anyone with half a brain knows these are rip-offs.

What were the names of the colleges?

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:34 am

sorry, ty … “Legally separate from the university, the UGA Athletic Association is the nonprofit corporation that operates the school’s NCAA intercollegiate athletic programs.”

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/021510/uga_563164236.shtml

which is why UGA is currently experiencing the following problem: “The University of Georgia is reeling under repeated budget cuts that have stripped more than $100 million dollars from the school’s operating budget over the past 18 months – but the UGA Athletic Association’s financial health is as rosy as ever, college officials say.”

(from the same article)

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:35 am

Yes, i have heard of those derivative markets , Kam. The one i think is most unscrupulous is the life insurance derivative market, where they are betting when someone is going to die.

Funny, derivatives contracts used to be used to protect farmers from price flucuations. Now its all this sick stuff.

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:35 am

Hootenanny, the GAO won’t release the names but says the worst cases have been forwarded to the FBI for further investigation.

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:36 am

Cucumber? I like it – it’s getting more love in the mixology world. Cucumber vodka makes a great bloody mary.

Saul Good

August 4th, 2010
11:37 am

Jay…ENJOY!!! Good for you!

Don’t worry about the place…we won’t have any “parties” while you’re away. Just leave USinUK in charge… she’ll make sure all is kept at a low roar.

yet really… enjoy your mischief. Too bad this society is not more like the “socialist” countries of Norway and Sweden… where the whole month of August is a vacation… sad to know how that “sucks” for them… most of all when you read that they live longer compared to we here… last I saw…. they’re not hurting in their economies any more compared to how we are….

ty webb

August 4th, 2010
11:37 am

UsinUK,
again, The AD generates more money for the university than the head of the science department.

jewcowboy

August 4th, 2010
11:37 am

“I’m taking off Friday for two weeks of whitewater rafting, fishing and general mischief-making out West.”

That sounds like a vacation to me….and in the US today…that is simply not allowed:

http://www.hrmguide.net/usa/worklife/unused_vacation.htm

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=why_we_dont_vacation_like_the_french

Didn’t you get the memo?

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:38 am

Finn – Pimms. ask for it by name. YUM

JohnnyReb

August 4th, 2010
11:38 am

If for profit schooling is not the answer, what is the plam to get indoctrination out of public schools and colleges? What is the plan to break up the teacher unions? What is the plan for not letting achievers be held back by classmates not at their comprehension level? What is the plan to get the gangs out of the schools? etc, etc, etc.

JMart

August 4th, 2010
11:38 am

Buckagon, the last time the “idiots” from Penn State played Georgia, they kicked your behinds and won a national championship. Game was replayed on the Big Ten Network last week. Watching it was still as much fun as ever.

barking frog

August 4th, 2010
11:38 am

I believe the “for profit” colleges have lax admission requirements
and no “Quotas” which is not necessarily a bad thing.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:39 am

ty – what part of “the athletic department is legally separate from the university” isn’t sinking in? ticket sales, etc, can generate money for the athletic department – but none of it filters back to the university.

jm

August 4th, 2010
11:39 am

Perhaps the solution is to eliminate federally subsidized student loans. The banking system would probably be better at evaluating someone’s ability to repay after graduation.

Or – any school using federally subsidized student loans has to admit absolutely anyone. Now that would make things interesting.

Things get a little complex….

Finn McCool

August 4th, 2010
11:40 am

Saul, and the idea that August is just the horses rear-end of all the months suggests it should be a national vacation month.

Besides, we gotta gear up for football season the following month!

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2010
11:41 am

Do we at least get a new trout picture?

just as long as the new pic isn’t of the same trout…

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:41 am

larry – “derivatives contracts used to be used to protect farmers from price flucuations. Now its all this sick stuff”

nah – derivatives have always been about 2 people betting on opposite things … one person thinks a company is going to get downgraded, someone else thinks they’re not. one person thinks that interest rates are going to rise, one person doesn’t. meh. it all started with grape farmers – one person thought it was going to be a strong harvest, yielding low prices, so he locked in higher prices with someone who thought it was going to be a weak harvest.

Normal

August 4th, 2010
11:41 am

Gee, I don’t know about that. I graduated from Psychotic State and they never made me pay back anything…We had a hellava football team, too…

Jay

August 4th, 2010
11:41 am

jmart, I remember that game well.

jm

August 4th, 2010
11:41 am

Ending federally subsidized student loans would also eliminate the pesky overabundance of journalism majors (no offense Jay). Perhaps we would get more of the needed Math Science Engineering Technology majors we so desperately need. I don’t think I’m half kidding here.

N-GA

August 4th, 2010
11:42 am

Jay – The AJC recently reported on DeKalb school official Ralph Simpson who is accused of selling his own book to schools in the county. He is proud of his PHD earned from the University of Sarasota (now called Argosy University), a for-profit school. It was created in 2001 from several Universities including Sarasota U., Medical School of Minnesota, and the American School of Professional Psychology. What is most interesting is some data on Wiki. It states that there are 3921 undergraduate students and 14,540 postgraduate students. Obvious question?

This school specializes in “distance learning” with brief campus visits. They have a history of problems and lawsuits concerning problems like accreditation (2009 – not accredited).

Do you think that Educational Systems look into graduate degrees “earned” by their employees? Wasn’t there a recent scandal in Georgia where teachers claimed bonuses for having advanced degrees “earned” at some bogus online schools? Isn’t this problem really an epidemic?

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:42 am

If i recall correctly, JMart, the score was 27-23, 4 points isnt excactly a butt kicking.

Scout

August 4th, 2010
11:42 am

Jay to : “Finn, the bigger problem is profiting from people NOT getting an education.”

You mean like UGA? The number one alcohol abuse party school in the nation?

RW-(the original)

August 4th, 2010
11:43 am

Hootinanny,

If you follow Jay B’s link to the GAO and read the report you can get a pretty good idea even though as he says they don’t release the names. There’s a cosmetology school and a massage therapy school among this group along with a couple of web page design schools so it is pretty much like the “for profit elementary schools” that advertise on Springer.

Where's My Party?

August 4th, 2010
11:43 am

Not sure apples are being compared to apples here. The examples of the institutions in the story sound like the infomercials you see on TV to become a dental hygenist or court stenographer and a loan is far different from a voucher.

@@

August 4th, 2010
11:44 am

Another told an undercover applicant that “student loans were not like car loans because ‘no one will come after you if you don’t pay.’

Well…

To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies that go to banks for student loans. (Applause.) Instead, let’s take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants. (Applause.) And let’s tell another one million students that when they graduate, they will be required to pay only 10 percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after 20 years — and forgiven after 10 years if they choose a career in public service, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college.(Applause)–Barack Obama

Bosch

August 4th, 2010
11:45 am

Reb,

You don’t have to plan for things that don’t exist.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bottom line – the voucher system is nothing but a system to set us back to the days when only those who can afford education get it.

Jimmy62

August 4th, 2010
11:46 am

Apples and oranges is right. This has nothing to do with vouchers to help poor kids get out of the crappy schools that liberals trap them in.

Scout

August 4th, 2010
11:46 am

“OFF TOPIC #1″

This is fascinating ……….
As you open your pockets for yet another natural disaster,
keep these
facts in mind:

1) Marsha J. Evans, President and CEO of the American Red Cross…
salary for year ending 06/30/03 was $651,957 plus expenses.

2) Brian Gallagher, President of the United Way receives a $375,000
base salary, plus numerous expense benefits.

3) UNICEF CEO receives $1,200,000 per year plus all expenses
and a ROLLS ROYCE where ever he goes and only cents of your dollar
goes to the cause.

4) The Salvation Army’s Commissioner Todd Bassett receives a
salary of only $13,000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 billion
dollar organization.

No further comment necessary…….

Saul Good

August 4th, 2010
11:46 am

ty webb: “nice try, but what I said is true. The AD generates more money for the University than the head of the science department.”

That says much about our society…because there’s TRULY something “wrong” with that. We should donate and pay respect to “scholars” over athletes… most of all when it’s a “school”…

I mean who gets more scholarships? Athletes or Science/Math Majors?

There’s the problem.

barking frog

August 4th, 2010
11:47 am

USinUK;11:41; I don’t think it started with grapes, I believe it was nuts.

Doggone/GA

August 4th, 2010
11:48 am

“a loan is far different from a voucher.”

Not to the school. Either one is just money coming in

Where's My Party?

August 4th, 2010
11:48 am

On the cucumber thing, muddled ginger and cucumber, strained and served over ice with Hendricks Gin and a splash of tonic is also very, very tasty.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:49 am

Normal –

didn’t know if you saw this this morning, but it still makes me laugh

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1939395

Normal

August 4th, 2010
11:49 am

Let’s tax the rich and let everybody go to college…sorry, just had to say it…

Actually, what is needed is more financial aid to good technical schools, or even brand schools, like Harley or Honda, etc. Not everybody need go to college….and technical schools are the gateway to small business opportunities…

larry

August 4th, 2010
11:49 am

Hellooooooo and welcome to larry’s school of assembling products at home.

Yes , you too, can work at home to assemble products that alot of companies need.

And in 18 months, you will be well on your way to financial freedom. Call (123) 456-7890 right now.

@@

August 4th, 2010
11:50 am

As to RW’s point, remember what happened when legislators proposed that Clayton County students be allowed to transfer to other, better performing districts? Those other districts went nuts at the very idea, and the effort ended.

And I’m here to tell ‘ya the students went to neighboring counties…Fayette and Henry. How so, you ask?

Their parents are submitting fraudulent data.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:50 am

barking – (shrug) – heard the first derivative contracts were by the Greeks over the grape harvest …

who would bet on nuts other than squirrels ;-)

jm

August 4th, 2010
11:51 am

Saul Good – I agree. But more with the math – tech – engineering needs. Science can sometimes be dubious. 2/3 of medical research papers are actually eventually overturned. See article.

http://discover.coverleaf.com/discovermagazine/20100708?pg=58#pg56

Normal

August 4th, 2010
11:51 am

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:49 am

Haha, see what slick table tops will get ya?

ty webb

August 4th, 2010
11:52 am

saul good,
I see no problem with it.

N-GA

August 4th, 2010
11:52 am

Amen, Normal….Everybody has a “right” to go to college, but not everybody belongs in college. Of course, many colleges today are just diploma mills. Graduates of a Catholic High School are often more educated than many college graduates with BS/BA degrees. Unfortunately High Schools are adding to the problem. There are frequently disparities between GPA (high) and SAT/ACT scores (low). Wonder why?

barking frog

August 4th, 2010
11:53 am

USinUK;11:50; the US political system.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 4th, 2010
11:53 am

Well, I don’t know about anybody else, but I can’t drive a mile without seeing a sign for some innernet colledge. And it’s got me to thinking. Maybe I could start up one of them colledges and get rich. You know, lugging cases of beer is mighty hard work. Especially if you can’t drink none of it while you’re lugging it.

So tell the truth. How many of you would sign up for Redneck Colledge? Heck, if I need to, I’ll even adopt a mile of road and make the students walk along it picking up trash.

I know there’s a whole bunch of you that would be willing to make TV ads for me, standing in your jammies and talking about how you ain’t going to bed, you’re getting ready to take a colledge class. (Not you, Bosch and Kam, I know you’d show up expecting to be filmed buck-nekkid and showing your shortcomings.) And I’d even be willing to put up one of the fancy gowns with stripes on the sleeves and a pretty bunch of colors on a hood along my back. Dr. Redneck. It’s got a ring to it.

Anyhow, a good voucher program would sure make me rich make my colledge grow.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

Saul Good

August 4th, 2010
11:53 am

Scout…that’s the very reason why I don’t donate or contribute to any of the “BIG” 501c3 Non-Profits.. a vast majority of their money is used for payroll and to solicit more contributions.

There are GOOD ones…one’s who use the dollars you contribute to go to those in need…be it for humans, animals, or the environment. It simply takes a minute or so to look at the information they need to provide year after year to see how many of your dollars actually go towards the “cause” you’re contributing to.

Know what…same thing fits religious institutions where the “grand poobah” drives an $80,000 car and lives in a million dollar plus house. I don’t care WHAT religion it is… nobody “preaching” to his-her flock needs to keep that much for themselves… That’s NOT religion…it’s a purely a scam.

@@

August 4th, 2010
11:54 am

Oops! Should’a included an anyway.

And I’m here to tell ‘ya the students went to neighboring counties anyway

harvey

August 4th, 2010
11:54 am

The only people that really profit from our lousy education system are politicians because they have an ignorant electorate and they use that to their advantage. Good education, however, begins in the home. If parents made sure their kids knew that all heck would break loose if they were sent home, skipped school, or got a negative report, kids would likely shape up, and schools could spend time teaching instead of herding.

RW-(the original)

August 4th, 2010
11:54 am

Not to the school. Either one is just money coming in

A voucher is a set amount of money that the student will be able to offer the school as payment and if the school raises tuition too high the student’s parents may not be able to afford the difference so market forces will begin to kick in. With government provided student loans the loans just get bigger whenever the schools raise the prices so they are not even remotely the same things. And when you have the President of the United States proclaiming that those loans will be forgiven the normal market forces disappear completely. Welcome to Obamaville.

USinUK

August 4th, 2010
11:55 am

barking – 11:53 – (polite golf clap) well done, sir!

Scout

August 4th, 2010
11:56 am

Saul Good :

You are absolutely correct sir.l

“Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

stands for decibels

August 4th, 2010
11:57 am

Amen, Normal….Everybody has a “right” to go to college, but not everybody belongs in college.

Only about 40% of Americans between 25-34 wind up getting a degree. I’m not sure if that’s a big deal or not, but I am sure that this stat does not compare very favorably to a lot of our economic competitors.

ty webb

August 4th, 2010
11:57 am

Has anyone else seen those commercial for Universal Technical Institute? UTI? really? What’s their mascot, “The Burners”?

Saul Good

August 4th, 2010
11:57 am

jm…that’s okay… sure there are some “wasted studies” being financed… but it does not compare to the cost and wasted money that goes into a football team. All that team does…is recruit more who go there to the school without an agenda because of that team. I truly know MANY who chose their schools simply because of the Football or Basketball teams… in my head…that simply does NOT compute. Not even close….

JohnnyReb

August 4th, 2010
12:01 pm

Hello Bosch – I posted something for you the other day but not sure you saw it, so I’ll repeat – There is grief only when there was love.

I don’t have any children in school, but people I know who have their kids in private school, who long for vouchers to mitigate the taxes they pay for services chosen not to receive, site high the issues I list as to why they chose private schooling.

Would vouchers hurt public schooling, absolutely. However, it does not appear anything short of the money crunch will change things.

jm

August 4th, 2010
12:02 pm

SaulGood 11:57 – yes. Some revamping of HOPE will help too, depending on how its done. When college becomes “too free”, people stop thinking about the value of what they can produce after.

Sad to say, we need fewer history, political science, journalism, film, architectural majors, and more of the METS majors we were discussing. You would think the post-college pay would make them pursue them, but apparently not….

@@

August 4th, 2010
12:02 pm

Now RW????

With government provided student loans the loans just get bigger whenever the schools raise the prices so they are not even remotely the same things.

You know that’s not true. Everyone knows how frugal the government is with our money.

(IW&SH)