State leaders eye tax shift onto middle, working class

If Georgia’s Special Council on Tax Reform and Fairness gets its way, somebody’s taxes will be going up soon. And somebody else’s will be going down. And even though the 11-member panel has just begun its work and won’t issue a final report until January, it’s already possible to predict the likely winners and losers:

If you are middle class or working class, the council is going to propose that you pay more in state taxes. If you are affluent, the council will suggest that your taxes go down.

If you own a business or make a lot of money through investments, the council wants to make you feel welcome in Georgia by cutting your taxes.

But if your income depends on working for a paycheck, the council will suggest that you’ve been slacking off in your contributions to Georgia and that you need to pay more.

Of course, they won’t exactly put it like that. But that’s going to be the net effect.

How are such predictions possible, with five months of public hearings and debate still to come? Well, they’re possible because the council’s mission has been made pretty clear, and because its membership was designed to guarantee a certain outcome.

The council was created by legislation signed into law this year by Gov. Sonny Perdue. And while its official mission is to “conduct a thorough study of the state’s current revenue structure and make a report of its findings and recommendations” to the Legislature, its real assignment is more specific. Perdue and other state leaders, including House Speaker David Ralston and Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle, have made it clear that its primary mission will be to make Georgia’s tax structure more attractive to business.

As a result, other goals in designing a tax system, such as making sure that the tax burden is distributed fairly or that it produces a steady revenue stream to fund state government, have been given a much lower priority.

The narrowness of that mission is reflected in the narrowness of the council’s membership. Perdue is a member, as are four economists affiliated with Georgia universities. The other six members represent real estate, banking and business sectors, and include the chair of the Georgia Chamber of Commerce and the Georgia chair of the National Federation of Independent Business.

The goal of the council is to recommend ways for the state to lower or even eliminate taxes perceived as unfriendly to business, such as corporate and personal income taxes. Today, those taxes generate roughly $7.7 billion, or 54 percent of Georgia’s tax revenue.

But how do you make major tax cuts in an era when state revenues are already plummeting, forcing teacher layoffs and cutbacks in state services?

You do it by raising other kinds of taxes, specifically the state sales tax. You might, for example, reinstate the sales tax on food, which Gov. Zell Miller repealed in 1996 by arguing that “it’s wrong to tax the very thing that you need to live.” You might extend the sales tax to services, or simply raise the sales tax by a penny or two.

But let’s be clear: As you shift away from the income tax toward the sales tax, you inevitably shift the tax burden onto the poor and middle class. Those families don’t typically have unspent income. Every dollar they make ends up being spent, which also means it is vulnerable to a sales tax.

More affluent families, on the other hand, spend only part of what they make each year. And if they don’t spend it, it isn’t taxable through a sales tax. A move away from an income tax and toward the sales tax would produce much lower taxes for those already doing well, at the expense of those who are struggling to stay afloat in this tough economy.

But again, that’s not how the package is likely to be sold.

242 comments Add your comment

Keep up the good fight!

August 3rd, 2010
7:55 am

Tax reform and fairness coming from the republicans….now that’s a laugh

Question Man

August 3rd, 2010
8:04 am

Can you remind us again why the middle class and working class are increasingly supportive of the Republican party in Georgia?

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
8:05 am

“Tax reform and fairness coming from the republicans”

Tax reform? Sure, politicians (not just R’s) are always up for “reforming” taxes. Fairness? Not so much.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:05 am

the Republicans aren’t against wealth distribution – as long as it’s distributed upwards …

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
8:10 am

“the Republicans aren’t against wealth distribution – as long as it’s distributed upwards”

Now USinUK, you’re in the financial sector…you should know you need to get the terminology “right”! When money flows upwards – that’s good money management. It’s only “wealth redistribution” when it flows downwards. Got it now? ;-)

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:11 am

Doggone – :lol: – I stand, humbled and chastised

larry

August 3rd, 2010
8:12 am

They could start ………………………by resigning and coming up with some real people on the panel. Working people.

Normal

August 3rd, 2010
8:14 am

Let’s see,
Georgia wants to ease the tax burden of the rich (is Sonny rich?), make Georgia busuness friendly by ending corporate taxs to bring in jobs, (probably low paying), yet doesn’t want a welfare system to aid the unemployed/unable to work fellow Georgians…

Do you ever foresee a time when Georgia might be full of rich corporates but no working class because they have all gone to other states that have programs to help them out?

Or maybe Sonny and the Boys want to re-establish a working poor slavery system. Can “company stores” and “company housing” be far behind?

Just asking…

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 3rd, 2010
8:14 am

Well, like my all-time hero said, there you go again. There’s a reason us Republicans are for socking it to raising the taxes of poor people and coddling lowering the taxes of rich people and businesses. The reason is because poor people don’t create jobs and make campaign contributions do Trickle Down. If you keep things like they are businesses and rich people will just leave the state.

I wouldn’t expect a bunch of libruls to understand things like that. Anyhow, I got beer to haul. So have a good day everybody.

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
8:16 am

“Can “company stores” and “company housing” be far behind?”

I don’t know about the housing part, but couldn’t you say that Wal-Mart, for instance, already HAS a “company store”?

larry

August 3rd, 2010
8:18 am

( is Sonny rich?) LOL !!! I just wonder where the man is going to retire. Houston County ? Florida? or up here next dooor in Habersham County. And he get the loans………………with great terms.

Disgusted

August 3rd, 2010
8:18 am

And this nonsense is what you can expect on a national level if the Republicans are ever allowed to regain power. You will look long and hard before you find a compassionate bone in the typical Republican’s body.

Daedalus

August 3rd, 2010
8:19 am

The middle and working classes (outside the Perimeter) will keep voting Republican as long as we have wedgie issues like gay marriage, gay adoption, Voter Identification laws(to stop a problem that does not exist), and honoring the Confederate Battle Flag.

Oh year, let’s not forget the need to siphon of tax dollars from metro Atlanta for South and North Georgia. Got to have those beautiful 4 lane roads to nowhere you’d want to go.

TaxPayer

August 3rd, 2010
8:19 am

Well, as long as they exempt certain services from taxation, we’ll be okay. But as soon as they start talking about a “greens mowing tax” or a “golf ball washing fee” or “caddy shackles”, it’s all down hill from there.

By the way, I see that the lottery ain’t doin’ so well either and now they is talkin’ about puttin income caps on those receivin’ funds. The word is that ifin you don’t make a minimum of $100k per year, then you ain’t worth the investment in yore children.

larry

August 3rd, 2010
8:19 am

And Sonny is so land rich………………bless his heart , he needs a tax cut.

Curious Observer

August 3rd, 2010
8:21 am

Yet one more reason to hold your nose and vote for Roy Barnes in November. It’s for sure that neither Karen Handel nor Nathan Deal would even consider vetoing such a rip-off of poor and middle class voters.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:22 am

“They could start ………………………by resigning and coming up with some real people on the panel. Working people.”

gah – their “working people” would probably be a CEO

stands for decibels

August 3rd, 2010
8:22 am

Whenever I think maybe Jay’s got the dream gig, made in the shade, etc., I come upon a sentence like this:

More affluent families, on the other hand, spend only part of what they make each year.

And that’s when I realize that if I had to patiently explain the obvious in a polite fashion each and every day like that, to people who have been programmed for decades not to process such information, my head would essplode.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:23 am

TaxPayer – 8:19 – Zell must be ’bout ready to challenge someone to a DUEL for effing around with this baby!!!

TheCrooksAreStillAtIT

August 3rd, 2010
8:24 am

These people do not care about everyday citizens and for them everything is about making a BUCK.
So, my solution to this issue is to spend only what I need to live and when a sales associate approaches me in a store for an UPGRADE, I will laugh at them.

Trust me, it works.

The problem in the past has been that we have been too willing and able to make an UPGRADE (car, house, clothes, cell phone, etc…). The longer we hold unto what we have the better customer service and price we will get from those large and small businesses.

We will also gain respect from people such as the governor and state representatives; they will know not to treat us like ATM machines.

Answer man.

August 3rd, 2010
8:25 am

Question man, two words, Fox Noise.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:26 am

dB – tell me about it – nearly dropped my teeth last week when someone told me that the marginal propensity to consume / save was a nice “theory”

oy.

candide

August 3rd, 2010
8:26 am

Everyone, including the so-called poor, should pay something towards the general welfare. They now pay no federal tax and perhaps no state tax.

Jack

August 3rd, 2010
8:26 am

I think maybe Bookman is suggesting that paycheck earners band together and form tax-favored companies and turn the tables on the doggone, dirty affluent folks. That’s puzzling since Bookman’s paycheck comes from one of those doggone, dirty, money-making companies that enjoy tax breaks.

Normal

August 3rd, 2010
8:29 am

Canton’s golf course is closed and the banks have taken over. Canton built the course to attract families and businesses. Home owners are worried about fall real estate prices.

I say, maybe it’s not a bad thing…let Woodstock become the county seat and get rid of all the lawyers up there. Use the golf course as a community farm/ranch. Legalize them pesky mezzicans and put them to work. Make Canton the first commune comunity in Georgia. Wouldn’t need higher sales taxes then…

But then, Sonny and his Boys would probably make self sufficiency illeagal…

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:30 am

candide – they do pay towards the general welfare via sales taxes, fees, advalorem taxes, etc, even if they don’t make enough for income taxes

Karl Marx

August 3rd, 2010
8:31 am

Repubabuba’s say they are for smaller taxes and smaller government but what did they do last session? They raised taxes and fought hard to maintain the size of government. NOW they want us to believe that this “Tax Commission” will lower taxes. GIVE ME A BREAK. LIERS! Hospital Bed Tax, Massive Fee Increases, The Arts Council, a 2.9 million dollar luxury Spa, and more government programs. Lowering taxes, not likley.

larry

August 3rd, 2010
8:34 am

Fees=Taxes in the republican dictionary

TheCrooksAreStillAtIT

August 3rd, 2010
8:35 am

Some of you are not familiar with the saying “You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip”. So, if the poor live paycheck to paycheck, they will not be purchasing anything additional; just much less. The middle class will only tighten their budget, just to save a little.

AmVet

August 3rd, 2010
8:36 am

Oligarchy – a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few.

After 30 years of it *devastating* middle class Americans, it is patently absurd that these misnamed fiscal conservatives are still clinging to the failed and repudiated trickle down your thighs model. Ronnie’s Voodoo Economics is another big, fat charade to promulgate the plutocracy – a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.

By their own admission, the misguided hate our representative government SO much, that they are willing to prostrate themselves before the erstwhile beneficent Titans of Malfeasance and Criminal Negligence, in the hopes that the beatings will not continue.

And they are fools for doing so. And cannot see that a vibrant, robust, healthy middle class is the very strength of America, not its weakness!

I defy you to find any “conservative” who can cogently and accurately tell you why American capitalism is going through these deadly paroxysms? (Hint. It wasn’t the free market.) And why millions of American families form sea to shining sea are in dire straights. And this time, it ain’t just the usual Cadillac-driving, welfare queens with nine kids.

Its Republicans out in the suburbs who are taking it __________. No job, nor career, no industry and with few if any prospects. Mounting financial woes. Record foreclosures. Record bankruptcies.

Back when politicians actually protected and served we the people and had a fully functioning spine, corporations paid about half of the taxes in this nation. Now it is less than 20% and steadily going down.

Well, maybe one of you bright young people can tell me who’s share has gone up to make up the difference?

WRONG!

YOURS.

I wrote Eric Johnson who ran on a campaign promise to eliminate corporate taxes altogether and asked him when is enough enough?

As I own one, I am pro-business, but unlike the corporate wh*res who dominate conservative, neolithic thinking, I do not use that mantra as a means of being anti-people…

Welcome to Georgia! A wholly owned subsidiary of Coca Cola, Southern Company and Georgia Pacific.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:38 am

larry – “Fees=Taxes in the republican dictionary”

actually, just the opposite – fees /= taxes in the GOP dictionary – they’re happy to increase fees until the cows come home so that they can say “we haven’t raised taxes”

(and they say that Bill Clinton split hairs …)

Normal

August 3rd, 2010
8:40 am

(and they say that Bill Clinton split hairs …)

How’d she mean that?

Donovan

August 3rd, 2010
8:45 am

Oh, please Bookman. Get off of the Marxist soap box about the poor working class middle income hero stuff. Is is not enough that your paper already has another Lenin type preaching the same rhetoric such as Comrade Tucker? We know who already pays more than their fair share of the tax load. The so called “progressive tax system” is nothing more than a legal government way to steal money that is not theirs. I for one am tired of carrying the lower income people on my back all my life.

ty webb

August 3rd, 2010
8:46 am

Just wanted to interrupt the “amen” chorus from Jay’s group of bedwetters(I say that somewhat affectionately), and say this sounds great. Finally, some fairness in the tax code.

stands for decibels

August 3rd, 2010
8:48 am

pat

August 3rd, 2010
8:49 am

Taxes are not a zero sum game. If the theory works, and often it does. Bringing business in creates jobs and increases state revenue. Many states get away with zero income tax, so don’t with this half wit theory that if you lower one, you have to increase another. That’s half wit BS. There is no evidence for that in the real world.

Ask Cakifornia how taxing the ever living sh*t of corperations worked out for them….

godless heathen

August 3rd, 2010
8:51 am

I wonder how the affluent get all that cool stuff they have, if they don’t spend any more money (and hence pay more sales tax) than the middle class.

Matti

August 3rd, 2010
8:52 am

Of COURSE they do! But… it’s not really a shift, is it? Middle-class workers can’t afford the tax shelters our rich neighbors do, and already pay a large percentage of our income in taxes — income, property, and sales — without all the whining I hear from people in $4 million houses driving luxury foreign automobiles and taking regular vacations to places I can only dream about. Funny…. most of our well-to-do transplants live here because they’d NEVER get that much house for the money in the states they came from. Yet they’re just outraged at being asked to support the communities that afford them the lifestyle take forgranted. Friggin whiners.

Wes

August 3rd, 2010
8:54 am

Jay,

Let me get this straight. With a 10%+ unemployment rate in the state, you’re upset about our government trying to provide an environment that would encourage businesses to come here.

TheCrooksAreStillAtIT

August 3rd, 2010
8:54 am

REDNECK CONVERT – It looks like those beer employees are going off the deep end. I’m only assuming it was an employee.

MANCHESTER, Conn. — Authorities say several people have been shot at a beer distribution company in Connecticut.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:54 am

“I wonder how the affluent get all that cool stuff they have, if they don’t spend any more money”

what is it about % of income that seems to be beyond some people’s understanding …

larry

August 3rd, 2010
8:54 am

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
8:38 am

That is what i meant. They increase fees like crazy just to say they didnt raise taxes.

AmVet

August 3rd, 2010
8:59 am

Data from the United States Department of Commerce and Internal Revenue Service indicate that income inequality has been increasing since the 1970s, whereas it had been declining during the mid 20th century.

As I’ve often said… this [increasing income inequality] is not the type of thing which a democratic society—a capitalist democratic society—can really accept without addressing. – Alan Greenspan, June 2005

As of 2006, the United States had one of the highest levels of income inequality, as measured through the Gini index, among high income countries, comparable to that of some middle income countries such as Russia or Turkey, being one of only few developed countries where inequality has increased since 1980

Woo Hoo! We ain’t much different than the Rooskies and the Turks!

larry

August 3rd, 2010
9:00 am

A lot of people dont understand that when you woo a company to come here, including tax breaks , those tax breaks has to be paid be someone.

What i want to do is to see if those companies hired all those people they promised to hire when they got those tax breaks. If they didnt, they need to pay their share of the tax burden.

stands for decibels

August 3rd, 2010
9:01 am

what is it about % of income that seems to be beyond some people’s understanding …

When you are fed scary-sounding raw numbers and fed on anecdotes about welfare queens driving Caddies for decades, grasp of statistical proportionality goes bye-bye.

godless heathen

August 3rd, 2010
9:01 am

I understand per cent of income quite well thank you. Why is % of income so important to you redistributionists? With a sales tax, the rich still get taxed more because they spend more.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:03 am

“I understand per cent of income quite well thank you.”

evidently, you don’t, since you missed Jay’s point that the rich spend less as a proportion of their income than the poor do, which is why raising consumption taxes hurt the poor more than the rich.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:04 am

dB – 9:01 – yachts! and mansions! and bentleys! oh, my!!

AmVet

August 3rd, 2010
9:04 am

Yes, that taxes are now virtually eliminated for the loaded few – who control the vast percentage of wealth and power in this once prosperous nation – has no bearing on the tax liability thereby required by everyone else.

Talk about BS!

Remedial economics would not even help the willfully ignorant and the water carrying blind…

The Aristocrat

August 3rd, 2010
9:05 am

The Aristocrat finds it amusing that the poor and downtrodden will complain that there are no jobs for them to fill, yet argue that small business should not be given a tax break incentive to open their doors. Does the Left not understand that the majority of jobs in America are created by the small business owner?

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:06 am

Everyone, including the so-called Poor needs to pay up.

Matti

August 3rd, 2010
9:06 am

Larry, What i want to do is to see if those companies hired all those people they promised to hire when they got those tax breaks.

“Smaller government” means there’s nobody on the payroll to enforce the follow-through on promises or to inform the public that such promises were broken.

Gale

August 3rd, 2010
9:07 am

% of income is usually where my liberalism crashes against my fiscal conservatism. If poor people spend more of their income for stuff, why do they not focus on stuff they need to help them get ahead, instead of TVs, SUVs, manicures, expensive sneakers, etc? I don’t accept that argument. As noted above, the middle class (where I am) will just tighten the budget. If the rich don’t spend the same % of their income, I don’t see it as my concern if they pay the same % of sales tax that I do.

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:07 am

Obama hates small business, you, me, and the USA. He would like us all as his servants. Praise be to Emporer, Fuhrer and King Obama!!

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

August 3rd, 2010
9:07 am

A lot of people dont understand that when you woo a company to come here, including tax breaks , those tax breaks has to be paid be someone.

Dang straight. Unemployment is way down in Alabama due to us GA taxpayers paying for building a auto plant on the border with them. I’m just so proud to do my part.

And Crooks, ain’t no crime or killing happening at the warehouse in Cumming. We got to go wake Silas Knapp up once in a while when he goes on a bender and decides to sleep it off amid the pallets in the back. Otherwise, it’s as quiet as a meeting of Baptists at the liquor store on Saturday.

FrankLeeDarling

August 3rd, 2010
9:08 am

Tax the churches.end of problem.

Russ555

August 3rd, 2010
9:08 am

They have this exactly backwards. Why am I not surprised.

Jay

August 3rd, 2010
9:09 am

Wes, we already rank 40th in corporate income tax, 43rd in state taxes per capita, 47th in gasoline taxes and have the second lowest corporate income tax in the Southeast, behind only South Carolina.

Do you really believe that scrambling to be 45th or 46th is going to lure businesses here? Taxes are just one component of what a company looks for in relocating. Other factors are quality of schools, the transportation infrastructure, higher ed, public safety, water availability and overall quality of life, including greenspace, etc.

Companies driven primarily by taxes are almost always the lowest paying type of industry, the kind that is most likely to move to China and Mexico, where the costs are even lower. Why do you think we have such an illegal-immigration problem in Georgia? It’s because we “specialize” in the low-wage kind of jobs that draws those folks.

Higher-wage industries tend to be attracted more by the other factors listed above. But because our legislators have gotten it into their heads that taxes and taxes alone drive economic development decisions, they are stripping the state of the ability to invest in its people or its infrastructure.

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:10 am

Marta will NOT tolerate sleeping on the job, however, when 7 Marta ee’s were caught sleeping on the job they werent terminated…Oh no…just given a little suspension.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:10 am

FLD – hear! hear!

Gale – don’t fall into the Caddy-driving welfare-queen trap.

stands for decibels

August 3rd, 2010
9:10 am

TVs, SUVs, manicures, expensive sneakers, etc?

there’s your sign. (but you forgot CELL PHONES!)

Have fun with this lot, rational people. I’m done trying to edjumacate the conservadroids this morning.

stands for decibels

August 3rd, 2010
9:16 am

OGK @ 9.10, their supervisor was fired. Funny how you didn’t mention that.

Really outa here now.

pat

August 3rd, 2010
9:16 am

Ever get a paid job from a poor guy…Yeah, I thought not.

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:17 am

ya…dont forget the cellphone, ipods, blackberry, xbox, PS3, guitar hero games, 25 pairs of tennis shoes… db is correct.

Wes

August 3rd, 2010
9:17 am

Jay,

You raise a slew of valid points. Unfortunately most of those issues are impacted by our state legislature isolating Atlanta rather than the tax code.

The dysfunction in the legislature is an easy way to poke at Republicans without going for redistribution policies.

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:18 am

Super was fired yes. And they all shouldve been fired. The Super was the sacrificial lamb.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:18 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

“Having puffed up the credit markets to the point where they were bound to go pop, the former Federal Reserve chairman has since taken his place on the drawing room wall as an antique barometer of the economic weather – much watched but somewhat unreliable. Right now his reading is for rain and more rain.

I’m not saying he’s wrong, but a quick Google of Mr Greenspan’s forecasting record strongly suggests there is a fault as deep now in his atmospheric readings as for much of the time he was running the Fed.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/7923047/Alan-Greenspan-is-making-UK-weatherman-Michael-Fish-look-like-a-good-forecaster.html

professional skeptic

August 3rd, 2010
9:18 am

Just what we need: a bunch of Georgia bankers telling us how to run the state’s finances. Quickest way to failure seems to be the goal.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:19 am

“Ever get a paid job from a poor guy…Yeah, I thought not.”

ohsweetjeebus, would someone please take a BAT to this specious argument?

Gale

August 3rd, 2010
9:20 am

USinUK, not welfare queens, I’m talking working poor. I see too many of the working poor spending on non-essentials, not to mention having 4-5 kids to support. But that is another issue with me. You tell me? Is it really so important for each of the kiddies to get new $150 sneakers to start school, especially if no money is spent for school supplies like paper and pens?

dB, I skipped cell phones on purpose. Many families find it less expensive to have a cell phone than a land line. On the other hand, each of the kiddies does not need a cell phone.

I am seriously in favor of no sales tax for food, soaps, papers products; that sort of thing. I would not want a sales tax on things we all must buy. I would also lower or eliminate sales tax on most clothing. Over a certain $$, even clothing becomes a luxury item. Crank up the sales tax.

popeye

August 3rd, 2010
9:20 am

sfd….”Have fun with this lot, rational people. I’m done trying to edjumacate the conservadroids this morning”.

That is a waste of time….They got there marching orders last night from Glenn, Sean, Bill-O, and the queen B herself Man-Girl Ann…….After last night they are froathing from the mouth, and ready
to let off a little steam to the masses of unwashed citizens.

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
9:21 am

“Ever get a paid job from a poor guy…Yeah, I thought not.”

Have you EVER gotten a paid job from a business owner who had NO CUSTOMERS?

ty webb

August 3rd, 2010
9:21 am

How’s about a little compromise? We lower taxes for corporations and small business owners, and the “working poor” get their 100th lottery ticket of the week for free. deal?

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:24 am

Gale – 9:20 – now, don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against hyperbole, but don’t you think that’s a bit over the top? there’s a reason WalMart sales are so atmospheric – it’s not because poor folks are shopping at Niketown, ordering custom sneakers for their kids.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:24 am

or should that have been stratospheric … whatever … you know what I mean.

Jay

August 3rd, 2010
9:27 am

Wes, who exactly is pushing redistribution here?

It seems to me it’s this commission and the people who created it. THEY want to redistribute wealth from the working and middle class into the hands of the already wealthy.

But I forget, that’s not class warfare. It is only class warfare to NOTICE that’s what they’re doing.

Where's My Party?

August 3rd, 2010
9:30 am

The liberals only solution…..tax the evil greedy rich. Take, take, take, take, take. No new ideas. Ever. Just take more money for the rich.

Pathetic.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:30 am

yay! I can play this game!!

“The GOP’s only solution…..tax the lazy, good-fer-nuttin poor”

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:31 am

We need more $$$ for education of the children. After all they are our future and it takes a village and all those other platitudes!!

Outhouse GoKart

August 3rd, 2010
9:32 am

UK.. first we gotta get the lazy to do some work then tax the be-jesus out of them!

Gale

August 3rd, 2010
9:32 am

USinUK, I know what you meant. I know what I see. But the issue is still essential purchases versus nonessential purchases. The last pair of sneakers I bought, BTW, and they were far from high end designer sneakers, cost $120. It would not be much of a stretch to hit $150.

The thing is, if I wasted my income on a lot of non-essential stuff, I would quickly run out of money too. Sometimes it takes doing without to understand what is important and learn to plan. And yes, I have been in the position of doing without and counting pennies, and I mean pennies. I think it was a lesson worth learning although it was hard at the time.

USinUK

August 3rd, 2010
9:33 am

OGK – hey, they didn’t get lazy by working!

professional skeptic

August 3rd, 2010
9:33 am

Where’s My Party?
August 3rd, 2010
9:30 am

Please tell us all exactly how shifting the tax burden to the poor constitutes stealing from the rich. Go on, we’re waiting…

barking frog

August 3rd, 2010
9:33 am

If all the businesses moved to Mexico, Why are all
the Mexicans still coming here?

Where's My Party?

August 3rd, 2010
9:34 am

Then how about another proposal?

Soothsayer

August 3rd, 2010
9:35 am

popeye

August 3rd, 2010
9:35 am

Where’s My Party? … Please provide us unlearned the new ideas that the right wing has offered.
leaving out the part of course of we the rich need to retain our GWB tax cuts.

jt

August 3rd, 2010
9:35 am

Jay said—————–

“they are stripping the state of the ability to invest in its people or its infrastructure.”

Since when should the state “invest”?

There in lies the problem………..

to everything.

Statism.

Hows that working for ya’ll???

AmVet

August 3rd, 2010
9:35 am

Lordy Be!

I am so glad my forebears did not think like today’s fiscal liberally Republicans!

Moses would have gotten us out in the desert and after a week and a half, we’d have gone right back to Egypt and begged Pharaoh for our jobs back!

JB, great job on shooting down that oft-parroted fabrication of “Just lower corporate taxes and the jobs will come!”

And from the Homeland Department of Rhetorical Questions, why has the average schmo, garden-variety, Republican become such a guppy and brown noser?

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
9:35 am

“If all the businesses moved to Mexico, Why are allthe Mexicans still coming here?”

Ever heard of farms? And slaughter houses? There are SOME things that can never be outsourced to another country.

retired early

August 3rd, 2010
9:36 am

Gale
What about retired people on social security?

SS is not taxed by state or federal unless you have other income. An increase in sales tax means what to these people ?

Think real hard now.

Normal

August 3rd, 2010
9:36 am

Been listening to The Moody Blue while doing some bench work. These lyrics seemed on topic

QUESTION:

Why do we never get an answer
When we’re knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?
‘Cos when we stop and look around us,
There is nothing that we need,
In a world of persecution
That is burning in its greed.

Why do we never get an answer
When we’re knocking at the door
Because the truth is hard to swallow
That’s what the war of love is for

It’s not the way that you say it
When you do those things to me
It’s more the way that you mean it
When you tell me what will be

And when you stop and think about it
You won’t believe it’s true
That all the love you’ve been giving
Has all been meant for you.

I’m looking for someone to change my life,
I’m looking for a miracle in my life
And if you could see what it’s done to me,
To lose the love I knew
Could safely lead me through.

Between the silence of the mountains,
And the crashing of the sea,
There lies a land I once lived in,
And she’s waiting there for me,
But in the grey of the morning,
My mind becomes confused,
Between the dead and the sleeping,
And the road that I must choose.

I’m looking for someone to change my life,
I’m looking for a miracle in my life
And if you could see what it’s done to me,
To lose the love I knew,
Could safely lead me to
The land that I once knew,
To learn as we grow old
The secrets of our soul.

It’s not the way that you say it
When you do those things to me
It’s more the way you really mean it
When you tell me what will be

Why do we never get an answer
When we’re knocking at the door
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war?
‘Cos when we stop and look around us,
There is nothing that we need,
In a world of persecution
That is burning in its greed.

barking frog

August 3rd, 2010
9:37 am

OGK;9:31; Anytown can raise a drunk, but it takes a
village to raise an idiot.

Finn McCool

August 3rd, 2010
9:38 am

The result has been an experiment in social engineering that has gone horribly wrong: the creation of a faux mass upper middle class. Millions of Americans who by objective standards belong to the working class or lower middle class have persuaded themselves that they are part of the professional-investor elite, because they have worthless degrees from diploma mills, negligible amounts invested in stocks, and suburban trophy houses they cannot afford. For the college graduates at Starbucks working to pay off student loans for degrees that they will never use, as for the millions of Americans who are now “underwater,” owing more on their mortgages than their houses are worth, the American dream has turned into a nightmare.

Interesting read:
The fantasy of a vast upper middle class
http://www.salon.com/news/economics/index.html?story=/opinion/feature/2010/08/03/myth_upper_middle_class

Where's My Party?

August 3rd, 2010
9:39 am

Pro Skeptic….I don’t agree with your premise of “shifting the tax burden to the poor”. I don’t agree that raising sales tax “shifts the tax burden” to the poor. It may increase their burden but not at the benefit of the higher earners. It increases everyones burden. Which is the way it should be.

Increase taxes on everyone. I don’t have a problem with that.

godless heathen

August 3rd, 2010
9:41 am

Option 1: Let the rich keep some of their earnings so they can start businesses and employ people, and buy stuff that people make, distribute, and sell (jobs and sales tax revenue generated)
Option 2: Confiscate the earnings from the rich and use the money to buy votes through government give-aways.

I vote Option 1.

Gale

August 3rd, 2010
9:42 am

retired early, What’s your point? My grandmother counted pennies too. In today’s world, many retirees worked their whole life. I think they understand how to budget.

Finn McCool

August 3rd, 2010
9:42 am

But I forget, that’s not class warfare. It is only class warfare to NOTICE that’s what they’re doing.

It’s not class warfare if your class is the one winning the war!

Warren Buffet said, and I paraphrase: “There is a class war going on and my class is winning it!”

Doggone/GA

August 3rd, 2010
9:43 am

“Let the rich keep some of their earnings so they can start businesses and employ people”

ain’t gonna happen if there’s no one able to BUY what they are selling.

TheCrooksAreStillAtIT

August 3rd, 2010
9:43 am

GALE –

The choices when you budget: FOOD or MEDICINE ?????