ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause
The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.
Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.
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883 comments Add your comment
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:25 pm
Scout:
I’ve always appreciated Reagan’s “Trust but verify” approach.
The Muslim friends I mentioned earlier are doctors–one a neurosurgeon, the other a cardiologist. They’ve never given me any indication that they’re not loyal Americans. Been here most of their adult lives. The only thing that caused me to wonder about one was that he contributed to Cynthia McKinney’s repeated campaign.
The woman was an idiot. He didn’t even live in her district. Why would a neurosurgeon (intelligent professional) contribute to Cynthia McKinney’s campaign when she wasn’t even his representative. Only thing I could figure out was that he opposed Israel.
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:25 pm
Make that campaigns…multiple.
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:28 pm
Hillbilly:
Did it make for an interesting campaign? I wasn’t of voting age back then. Wasn’t even paying attention to politics.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:33 pm
@@:
If you can get them to talk, you will find that Muslims who have become extremely Westernized and love freedom as much as we do, are afraid to “come out of the prayer room” so to speak. They fear some of their relatives and other friends ……….. and also they have relatives in Islamic countries who would not be treated well should anyone find out.
It really is an insidious problem.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
10:34 pm
@@
It was sort of nasty and in order to shift his support to Jimmy, Teddy had to be given a grand entrance on the stage at the convention. As I remember, he snubbed Carter on stage, noticeably. If I’m not mistaken that was the same campaign where Roger Mudd asked Teddy why he wanted to be President and he couldn’t really answer it. I always got the impression he thought it was his by divine right.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
10:36 pm
@@, Hillbilly D,
I’m pretty sure Reagan challenged Ford for the nomination in 1976 too.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
10:42 pm
RW
You’re right. I didn’t think of that one.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
10:46 pm
HillBilly,
Did you have someone in mind to run against Obama? How about Biden? Nawww but his campaign would be fun.
Kerry? He’s got an even bigger ego and gunboat this time, the 7 million dollar yacht.
Pelosi? Crazy enough to try but not if her facelift falls.
Hillary? If first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Geithner? He’s got the boyish, lotsa hair look. He could stand on the national debt and look bigger.
Rahm? naaaaaaa…. too much eye shadow…
I think you are serious about your history, HillBilly. It is hard for me to get serious about the president. But tell us who you had in mind..
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:46 pm
Headline: “Former First Daughter Chelsea Clinton Weds Marc Lewinsky ………. I mean Mezvinsky!!”
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:46 pm
Never trust a President who wear sandals with bluejeans.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
10:47 pm
Harold Stassen challenged everybody all the time too, if you can really count him as a challenge, until he died so he challenged Reagan in 1984 and GHWB in 1992.
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:56 pm
Teddy’s divine right. I could see Teddy demanding his “due respect”. He never got it from me ’cause he wasn’t doo
it.
(ISH)
If someone were to challenge Obama they’d have to be either farther left for the extremer wingers or right of center for the independents and more moderate dems.
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:57 pm
I’ve never heard of Harold Stassen. Must not have been a serious contender.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
11:04 pm
Correct@@
Someone with a split personality!! There’s always CYNTHIA MCKINNEY…..I know… At least I did not say Blogoyovich…
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:07 pm
Another one of those “We told you so’s”.
DETROIT — U.S. regulators earlier this year demanded improvements to the pipeline network that includes a segment that ruptured in southern Michigan, spilling hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo River, according to a document released Saturday.
Sounds to me like federal regulators are pretty useless.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
11:07 pm
Eleven o’clock!!! Good night folks…
Kamchak
July 31st, 2010
11:08 pm
Just remember smoking lamp spelled backwards is pmal gnikoms.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
You never heard of Harold Stassen???? Damn, I’m gettin’ old.
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:10 pm
Dusty:
As strange as this may sound, I like Blagojevich. Maybe it’s because he’s no longer in politics. Did you know there’s a possibility he may be acquitted of any wrongdoing? It’s like he said when the accusations came…”Hey! It’s not like we don’t all do it.”
I LUV’D THAT!
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:14 pm
Hillbilly:
You’re not old, you’re wise. I just googled Harold Stassen…saw a picture of him in his military uniform. He looked like pictures of Eisenhower.
Harold Stassen, the perpetual candidate. HEY! that sounds like Obama.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
11:19 pm
@@,
He was a pretty serious candidate for the nomination in 1948. I don’t know how accurate polling was back then but apparently they suggested he would have had a better chance of beating Truman than Dewey did. After that he was just around all the time. I think Eisenhower gave him a job just to keep him out for a while.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
11:21 pm
Naww @@ it’s all that “neat” hair hanging down in Blogo’s bad-lil-boy face. It will getcha every time
G’nite!!
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:24 pm
RW:
Dewey won? I don’t remember a President Dewey.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
11:25 pm
There was a man locally in Atlanta, who always ran for office like Harold Stassen. His name was Wyman C Lowe. I bet I’m the only person who’s heard of him.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
11:26 pm
@@,
Dewey only won on the front page of a Chicago paper. Truman beat Dewey everywhere else.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
11:27 pm
I’m in the “never heard of Wyman C. Lowe” camp.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
11:36 pm
RW
He ran for something, every time there was an election.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
11:42 pm
Hillbilly D,
I think we’ve got a budding Wyman C. Lowe in Norcross. It doesn’t seem to matter what the office is as long he gets his name on some signs. Those people probably google themselves every ten minutes so I won’t give his name, but I think it’s been at least five in row now.
Paulo977
July 31st, 2010
11:46 pm
@@ ..@ 10:25pm…Watch it ..what do you know about Cynthia , she may have been many things BUT she was no idiot in the way she represented the 4th district and what she managed to secure for them!
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:47 pm
Just googled Wyman C. Lowe. He ran against Andrew Young. It was another one of those instances where everyone predicted whites wouldn’t vote for a black Andrew Young. Whites proved them wrong.
I remember only one thing about Andrew Young…knew it, for a fact, to be true, and I ain’t tellin what it was. Let sleeping dogs lay, I say.
Goodnight.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
11:49 pm
Is that a goodnight to the blog or to the sleeping dogs?
(ISH)
@@
July 31st, 2010
11:51 pm
Watch it Paulo?
Watch what?
Well whatever it was she was securing for them, she ain’t anymore, ’cause she flipped her wig one too many times.
Goodnight to you too.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
11:54 pm
RW
This was one of my all-time favorite Georgia candidates. He was fun.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,949628,00.html
Nite all.
And then from a 2008 column by Bill Shipp……
In the 1940s, dead people in a Telfair County precinct voted in alphabetical order for Herman Talmadge for governor. That ghostly occurrence has never been completely explained. However, the voting dead were partly instrumental in launching a series of events that left Georgia with three governors and made our state famous throughout the civilized world.
Nite all.
RW-(the original)
August 1st, 2010
12:00 am
I wonder if he ever got elected in Florida.
Goodnight y’all
Scout
August 1st, 2010
12:19 am
Taps !
“And so he bowed.”
moonbat betty
August 1st, 2010
12:58 am
and so he bowed.
funny haha
like a clown!
moonbat betty
August 1st, 2010
1:05 am
olive juice @@
stands for decibels
August 1st, 2010
4:02 am
Dewey only won on the front page of a Chicago paper.
Iconic photo, that.
stands for decibels
August 1st, 2010
4:09 am
Deep Interrupted-Sleep Thought:
The unprincipled (or, in some cases, simply ignorant) conservatives of average means who complain the loudest about the current Administration “destroying America” are, ironically, playing an important role in enabling established power bases that precede this, or the previous, or the previous-to-that Administration and their concerted efforts to destroy America’s democratic process.
(I know this irony is not lost on rational people and it almost goes without saying among them. The crowd posting here, on the other hand, might need to be reminded now and again.)
By meekly accepting the neatly-framed narrative that corporations merely seek free speech rights, such folks are doing far more damage than any mythical “socialist” President and his gang-that-can’t-shoot-straight Legislative branch could be inflicting if they were trying. Which they’re not.
stands for decibels
August 1st, 2010
4:13 am
Happened to catch this on CSPAN a little while ago: Sen. Al, who frequently makes me really proud to be an American, speechifyin’ to them dirty-hippie Nutrooters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NDH_tX6ElA
stands for decibels
August 1st, 2010
4:29 am
Back to Jay’s topic: A dose of 2.05am Sunday reality from Nate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I happened to be near Ground Zero for dinner tonight and did a little bit of walking around afterward. There was construction work being done on the site even at 11 PM on a muggy Saturday evening, and it definitely still gives one the chills.
[...]
There’s pretty much no way that you’re going to be able to see a 12-story building located two blocks behind a 16-story building that occupies the entire block, with another ~14-story building wedged in between. I also walked the entire northern perimeter of the WTC site — there’s nowhere that you’d get even a passing glimpse of the mosque. And I walked the stretch of Park Place where Cordoba House would be located — it’s a fairly incoherent and downtrodden block that you’d have no particular reason to visit, unless you were going there specifically to see Cordoba House, nor is it one that you’d happen upon unintentionally. Could you see Cordoba House from a high floor on the north face of the Freedom Tower once it’s built? I think that you could catch a glimpse of it — along with most of the rest of Lower Manhattan — if you strained yourself, although I’m not even certain about this. It certainly would not be very prominent and would look pretty much like an ordinary office building.
I know that people may think I’m being overly semantic and literal-minded, but it seems to me that these details matter. There’s not going to be some huge, ostentatious mosque with some minaret or some giant crescent located “at” Ground Zero, nor within clear sight of it, nor even on the way (in terms of virtually all natural paths a commuter or tourist might take) to Ground Zero. Rather, there’s going to be a mixed-use retail building that contains some kind of reformist mosque, located somewhere in its general vicinity — as there already is now. It would not impose upon or offend anyone unless they were going out of their way to be imposed upon or offended.
Personally, after having bypassed the media filter and actually done some basic research on the topic, I’ve gone from probably being a 2 or 3 on the five-point scale I highlighted in the previous post — meaning that I wasn’t thrilled about the mosque, but thought they had a First Amendment right to build it — to actually being closer to a 1. I think it would be a good thing for my city if this structure were built, and as someone who knows next to nothing about Islam, I’d be curious to see how an explicitly peace-loving, reformist, and Westernized version of the religion and culture chose to present itself to New Yorkers. About the only side effect might be a good falafel stand or two.
If you disagree with me, I can totally respect that. But please get off your butt and actually scout out the area around Ground Zero first, or failing that download Google Earth and apply some common sense about urban geography.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
August 1st, 2010
4:54 am
They’re the Double Dippers — the politicians, economists and analysts who foresee back-to-back recessions.
Their warnings could become self-fulfilling prophecies if they frighten enough people into holding tightly onto their wallets. With consumer spending accounting for two-thirds of economic activity, anything that further rattles consumers can undercut recovery hopes.-Urinal
So who are you going to believe, the white house propaganda rag ajc or the experts?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
August 1st, 2010
5:19 am
Pilots of commercial airlines that fly into Israel are expressing increased opposition to a security program imposed by the country’s Ministry of Transport that they say could subject inbound flights to possible attack by Israeli warplanes. -Urinal
I know this is just another hate Israel screed from the candy pants jackkkboots at the Urinal, after all, the US has a similar air defense system in place, but does anyone really believe the IDF craves burning up an airliner full of innocent civilians, you know, the way that all the ragheads do?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
August 1st, 2010
5:56 am
“Five days a week, she came into my room at four in the morning, force-fed me breakfast, and proceeded to teach me my English lessons for three hours before I left for school and she went to work,” the president wrote in his memoir, “Dreams from My Father.” -QueenPinko,Urinal
She should have let our little tard sleep, but if she had, then we wouldn’t have this rabid foamingly stupid socialist reawakening the country to the principles that it was founded on and dime store common sense.
So hat’s off to you, little Kenyan woman!
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
7:11 am
Ahhh! Another beautiful morning. The text of whine in the air.
I find it quite comforting to see the right wing conservatives of the republican faith in such agony, day after day, each and every day of the Obama presidency. Too bad it will end in six more years. Well, we’ll just elect another Democrat then and let their suffering continue. Perhaps Obama will announce that he has chosen one of his daughters to be our future president. That should help to negate some of the damage bestowed upon us by the Bush dynasty, starting with Prescott back in WWII. Those Republicans! They’ll do anything for a buck.
Bud Wiser
August 1st, 2010
7:43 am
Build a Baptist church in Mecca, see the love.
Idiots.
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
8:02 am
Mark Potok, director of publications and information for the Southern Poverty Law Center is quoted as saying ”“I think it’s very clear that you see ideas coming out of all kinds of sectors of the radical right, from the immigrant radical right, from the so-called Patriot groups, the militias and so on — and you see it spreading right across the landscape at some of these Tea Party events,” he says. “I think it’s worth saying that much of this is aided and abetted by ostensibly mainstream politicians and media members. … I think a lot of these ideas start on the radical right, but they are also being flogged endlessly by Republican officials,” he says. “Even those who are sort of considered [to be] responsible Republicans have completely abstained from any kind of criticism of this talk. So even way back when, when Sarah Palin was talking about Obama setting up death panels and so on — what we heard was a deafening silence from the mainstream of the Republican Party.”
Leaders of the Republicans know that they have to play to the emotions of those that would follow them over the cliff. It’s all they have. Play on that hate and fear and stir up that anger. Make ‘em fighting mad. That’s the ticket. Isn’t that how things went down in Germany under Adolf too. You just gotta focus that hate and use the will of the people to your advantage. Those Republicans! They’ll do anything to gain power!
Normal
August 1st, 2010
8:06 am
Good Sunday morning, y’all…Monday is just around the corner…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPmbT5XC-q0
Whiner,
I am seriously beginning to believe you have a serios man crush on the President. Come on, ‘fess up. It’s true, isn’t it?
@@
August 1st, 2010
8:27 am
Paulo977:
I neglected to ask last night…
where is Cynthia McKinney now? After losing her bid for re-election, did she stay in her beloved district to help all the people who supported her throughout her many campaigns?
The answer is NO! She moved to California ’cause her supporters had nothing left to give her…a cushy government job. Cynthia was a typical politician….a lump floating on the surface of your gravy.
Disgusted
August 1st, 2010
8:45 am
The unprincipled (or, in some cases, simply ignorant) conservatives of average means who complain the loudest about the current Administration “destroying America” are, ironically, playing an important role in enabling established power bases that precede this, or the previous, or the previous-to-that Administration and their concerted efforts to destroy America’s democratic process.
Reminds me of the guy I met yesterday. His son had been out of work for two years and finally found a job last week, thanks to the intervention of some friends. The guy immediately launched into a tirade against an extension of unemployment benefits for others.
Bud Wiser
August 1st, 2010
8:49 am
Build a Holocaust Museum in Tehran, feel the love.
The stupidity of the islamo-facists is, well, astounding.
Go back to sleep, std, so we don’t have to read your crap.
AmVet
August 1st, 2010
8:51 am
The stark difference between the reasoned and reasonable and the lunatic fringe is on display this morning.
That observation at 4:09 by stands was very astute. And fits perfectly into the discussion of how our right wing religious nuts who’ve polluted their faith are a greater danger to this land of liberty that any foreign right wing religious nut who has polluted his. And in their unwitting desire to be as like the Islamo-fascist cousins as they can, the Malices in Wonderland, have already succumbed to the extremists. And will never succeed in implementing their quais-theocracy of one religion only in America.
Because as Bookman said last night, the rest of us will fight on.
Hiya Normal!
When I was a teenager, my musical taste had already moved past the Carpenters to the Doors, Jefferson Airplane and other much more counter-culture oriented and sophisticated stuff. But…I obviously still listened to what was on the radio, and that included healthy doses of Richard & Karen.
And I had forgotten what an amazingly beautiful voice she had. And some of their songs were so well done that even the sappiness didn’t overpower them. Thanks that was a great musical way to start a Sunday morn. Thanks!
Another genius of his day…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0TInLOJuUM
Normal
August 1st, 2010
9:01 am
AmVet,
Cat was the “cat’s meow” for sure…I always liked his spirituality.
It was there for everybody to see…all they had to do was look.
In fact, it was his conversion to Islam that made me study the religion to see what it was that would make a spiritual man want to join. Like all religions it had some beautiful stuff, but it was infected with the virus that infects all religions…Man.
As for Karen, yeah, I was into Blue Oyster Cult, Uriah Heep, Jethro Tull, etc,
but I loved me some Karen…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI&feature=related
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
9:09 am
Here is an informative video. It’s a stark assessment of our misguided trade policies from the “other side” i.e. China. It’s 25 min long, so I know you won’t be able to watch it and run and bark with the pack. But save it to your favorites to watch after you’ve finished running and barking.
stands for decibels
August 1st, 2010
9:14 am
Build a Baptist church in Mecca, see the love.
Bud, two things:
1) When you approach the Pearly Gates, this is what you’ll likely have greeting you. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
2) We in America try to set a higher standard for religious tolerance than Saudi Arabia. Why any American would want to lower our standards to theirs, or even suggest we might consider it, is beyond comprehension. Unless that American were a dumbass.
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
9:18 am
Photos like these never cease to amaze me.
@@
August 1st, 2010
9:23 am
AmVet:
I’ve found a religion that’s right up your alley. You’ll just have to ignore those pesky Christians and Jews that freely choose to engage in The Aetherius Society’s functions to raise awareness.
The Cosmic Masters, our spiritual elders from other worlds, have come again to help us in our time of need.
They have delivered their messages to the political and religious leaders, and have been ignored. They come now to you, with compassion and desire to help. They come with great hope, offering mystical tools of white magic that can give you the spiritual power available only to advanced adepts centuries ago.
Close encounters more to your liking.
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
9:29 am
I’ve weighed in on this subject in previous columns by Jay, but not on this one.
First, I think the ADL’s message and intent remains intact, despite what Jay and Cynthia may think.
Second I think that there is no legal nor Constitutional way to keep this Islamic center from locating anywhere near the WTC site. The local authorities were correct in approving the request.
However, I question the motives of the people involved with this venture in trying to locate their center so close to what still remains a gaping wound in the minds of many Americans. Their claim that they want to bring about better understanding is fine as far as it goes, but I think they are looking at this a bit one-sided. They are looking for better understanding for THEIR perspective, yet they seem to care little for understanding how New Yorkers and Americans feel about what happened on 9/11 and about that site. It seems a strange way to try to foster better understanding, at least to me.
I also think that local officials could have worked with this group better and encouraged them to find something a bit farther away than just a couple of blocks from Ground Zero. It doesn’t appear that they made much of an effort to do so, in a politically-correct attempt to not offend anyone associated with the center.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
9:30 am
@@,
The Aetherius Society sounds like cousin to this one…
http://www.eckankar.org/?source=google_home1&gclid=CNnLpumwmKMCFUlS2godyxbXpw
I explored it back in the ’70’s while persuing my spiritual quest
Normal
August 1st, 2010
9:35 am
Dave R.
I think you read too much into their motives, but let’s explore for a minute that this community center might be a recruiting ploy. Negative reaction to the center and edited negative responses could be made to look like a hatred for all things “Islam”. I think it would be better just to let them have their center and watch them. It would seem like a “live and let live” attitude by us and therefore be not much help in recruiting…and perhaps maybe even changing a few minds about us “over there”….It’s something to consider…
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
9:44 am
Normal, please don’t read more into what I wrote than what I wrote.
I never claimed that they might be using it for a recruiting ploy. Nor do I think they are.
I just think that they are more concerned about other people understanding THEM, then they are about understanding US. I think they see a one-way street when that street goes both ways. And understanding us a bit better might have given them pause when trying to site a new Islamic center near the WTC site.
@@
August 1st, 2010
9:46 am
Normal:
…make God an everyday reality in YOUR life or MY life as the case may be.
So what’s this need left-wingers have to reach out and “touch” the One in my life? My PERSONAL relationship is just fine without all the “heartfelt” advice from left-wingers. They can’t touch it, they can’t take it. I sometimes think that’s their problem with it.
Now, no more discussion on MY personal preferences?
Del
August 1st, 2010
9:51 am
Dave R.@9:29am,
I think you articulated the issue many have with this project very well. I might add that it’s also legitimate to question the funding source/sources.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:02 am
@@,
Sorry to offend, that was not my intention. I was just trying to make conversation about your site and one of the things I tried in my search. If you are happy with your belief, far be it from me to try to change you…I wouldn’t try anyway. One’s “religion” is a personal thing, and only that person knows what is best for him/her.
AmVet
August 1st, 2010
10:03 am
soothsayer, they’ll join us in millions of premature deaths, a wide variety of maladies and high incidences of asthma etc. soon. Odd how the pro-pollution gang here, who advocates against a clean environment and loves that haze over Atlanta, is not yet ready to wake up to their love of poison, but expect those new to the game to. Hypocrisy much?
stands, that pic is hysterical! Right up my irreverent alley. And as Bruno so wisely asserted yesterday, the Christian animosity constantly on display here is MUCH more powerful at turning people off from that religion than all of the atheists, etc in the world put together.
Normal, back in the 70s some of my friends and I experimented with out of body mind travel as described by Eckankar, but we used powerful psychotropics. It was very exhilarating and truly “mind expanding”. Not for the weak of spirit or self-control.
There are many paths to enlightenment. Jesus is but one.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:06 am
Dave R.,
What’s that old saying about meeting one half way. It is a case of I’ll wait and see what you do and then I will reciprocate.
And no, I was not suggesting that you thought they were recruiting, I was just using that as a possibility for arguments sake.
AmVet
August 1st, 2010
10:07 am
Del, I concur.
Dave R’s argument is reasoned and well voiced.
And in my usual irreverent way, isn’t it time to lay aside this centuries old “My God can kick your God’s ass”" stuff?
Let’s not forget who we are, E Pluribus Unum…
@@
August 1st, 2010
10:07 am
Wrong on every conceivable level:
Reporting from Washington — The prospect of two long-serving African American lawmakers in the House enduring unprecedented public ethics trials seems likely to add to the growing tension between black members of Congress and Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill and in the Obama administration.
Since its 2009 inception, the Office of Congressional Ethics — an independent watchdog set up at the behest of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) — has investigated at least eight members of the black caucus.
Earlier this summer, Rep. Marcia L. Fudge (D- Ohio), a member of the caucus, introduced a resolution that would strip the ethics panel of some of its power and allow House members to keep unflattering reports from public view. The caucus has stood behind Rangel even as other House members have called for his resignation.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-waters-20100801,0,6275435.story
Let the games begin. Just like that….the little black dress no longer looks good on the Democratic Party?
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
10:12 am
I cannot help but wonder if some other religious group[s] is[are] so concerned about the building of a mosque in a certain place, then why do they not simply build another McChurch right beside it. Build multiple McChurches all around it and over it. Demonstrate the power of your beliefs. Show ‘em what you got. After all, it’s all done in the name of god, right. And even better, it’s tax deductible.
theyeshaveit
August 1st, 2010
10:15 am
Scout often likes to say that Islam is more than a religion; a way of life he says. Well, in my experience, Christianity is no different. Judging from what we see here, regardless of the subject matter, religion has a way of permeating virtually every new topic.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:17 am
Isn’t the LA Times another Murdoch owned publication?
theyeshaveit
August 1st, 2010
10:19 am
@@,
Little black dresses always look good and are always in season unless you try to fill one up with a porker or a Repugnick.
theyeshaveit
August 1st, 2010
10:22 am
Normal,
I don’t think so, but Mursoch did own the LA Dodgers for a time. And the Dodgers suffered then.
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
10:23 am
Since its 2009 inception, the Office of Congressional Ethics…
At least the Dems were willing to create such an office and they are not shying away from fellow Dems. By the way, is that the same office that snagged our local good old boy, Nathan, in a really lucrative Deal.
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
10:24 am
Does a College Degree Protect your Career? Unemployment Rate for College Graduates Highest on Record.
As many students begin applying for the 2010 academic school year, students are looking at an economic climate where endowments are hit, student loans are more restrictive, and parents have seen 529 plans sink along side their retirement plans. The upcoming school year will be highly competitive and expensive but will it be worth it?
Don't forget
August 1st, 2010
10:30 am
I actually am sympathetic to a number of conservative principles but I am very unlikely to support a conservative politician or party because of their broad generalizations and rigid thinking. Everything is either black or white, no gray areas are acknowledged. We repeatedly see post after post that assert that all muslims are essentially terrorists, Israel can do no wrong, all government is bad, all business is good, progressives are all socialists, conservatives are for freedom and liberty (unless THEY think something is immoral), all taxes are bad, all tax cuts are good, all social programs are bad, all poor people are undeserving lazy bums who envy the successful all of whom deserved their wealth, all regulation is bad, public schools are bad, private schools are good, evangelical is good, secular is bad, RINO’s are bad, extreme demagogues of the right are good, it goes on and on. This type of thinking is not only rigid but is also egotistical and self riteous. I think it’s much more likely to get a rational balanced approach to our problems from the left than from the right.
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
10:32 am
“At least the Dems were willing to create such an office and they are not shying away from fellow Dems.”
First, when you have to create such an office, you’ve already lost the argument.
Second, when it takes you almost 2 years to come up with your first few trials, given the sad level of ethical behavior in that institution, your office really isn’t that effective.
@@
August 1st, 2010
10:33 am
Normal:
Isn’t the LA Times another Murdoch owned publication?
What difference does that make? It doesn’t alter the fact that members of the black caucus have been singled out. Have they violated ethics? It would appear so, but then so have white reps. When it comes to them (Dodd, Franks, Murtha, Harman) it was hands off. Didn’t go after them with the same enthusiasm.
A document leaked to The Washington Post last week showed that nearly three dozen lawmakers have come under scrutiny this year by either the House ethics committee or the Office of Congressional Ethics, an independent watchdog created in 2008 at the insistence of Pelosi. While the list contained a substantial number of white lawmakers, the ethics committee has not yet launched formal investigative subcommittees with respect to any of them…
Would you prefer Politico’s take?
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29055.html#ixzz0vNOORyqK
I’m out for now.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:34 am
Second, when it takes you almost 2 years to come up with your first few trials, given the sad level of ethical behavior in that institution, your office really isn’t that effective.
Could mean that there was just a lot to dig through….
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
10:34 am
“but I am very unlikely to support a conservative politician or party because of their broad generalizations and rigid thinking.”
And yet you broadly generalize conservatives with this very statement . . .
Just sayin’.
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
10:36 am
“Could mean that there was just a lot to dig through….”
Boy, did I miss THAT alternative!
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:37 am
@@
August 1st, 2010
10:33 am
Have a great time at Church. Your’s isn’t this one, is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16fG1sDagU
theyeshaveit
August 1st, 2010
10:37 am
A Republican leitmotif,
First, when ever there is an opportunity to make progress, don’t cooperate because then the battle will be lost.
Second, even if effective reform can be realized in a timely manner, delay the inevitable and try to score some political points in the meantime.
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
10:39 am
Cursor down to the bar graph (red and blue) for an insight into just who created all of the debt we now have. Since this graph was originally a lot wider, you may want to save it to your “My Pictures” and view it larger (and for future reference). The grey bar on the far left represents all of the debt incurred by all of the presidents preceeding those represented on this graph. Notice that the $733 bn incurred in Ronald Reagan’s 1st four years completely eclipses this amount. The rest you can figure out for yourselves.
theyeshaveit
August 1st, 2010
10:42 am
Just a thought….Who needs ethics when you’ve got religion?
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:46 am
Soothsayer,
Another factual post! Thanks for the info.
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
10:49 am
Soothsayer, get with the program. CONGRESS, led by both Republicans and Democrats, created this debt.
Neither side has any claim to fame (except the GOP Congresses under Newt), but all are guilty in this fiscal debacle. Dems more than the GOP, but both nonetheless.
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
10:54 am
Republicans were such angels, they did not need an office of ethical reform. Uh huh!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
August 1st, 2010
10:55 am
Aahhh, the sociofascists comfort themselves with lies, now they would have us believe that obozo and his kkkrippled band of dummycrats are spendthrifts, hahahahahahahahahahaha, gtf outta here.
geez
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
10:57 am
Republicans pushed through all the borrow and tax cut bills on their own watch in 2001 and 2003. Now they try to blame their bad behavior on others. How unethical! And immoral too.
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:57 am
I tell you, y’all, Whiner DOES have a crush on the President…
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:59 am
Y’all,
Just remember…
Ethical Politician is an oxymoron…
Normal
August 1st, 2010
10:59 am
I’m off to tree worshiping…have fun
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
11:00 am
The key is real personal income. Including government programs it has fallen $500 billion over the past 16 months. In addition real unemployment remains at a high of 22-3/8%. That is U-6 less the birth/death ratio. This terrible dilemma is a first and is surprising in as much as government addition to income has gone past 18% for the first time ever. We expect that part of the reason for both situations is the perpetual drag of free trade, globalization, offshoring and outsourcing, which has continued unabated.
Dave R: That’s why the President has the power of veto.
TaxPayer
August 1st, 2010
11:01 am
NO!
You LIE!
I Object!
I’m meeting some conservatives/Republicans later today so I needed to brush up on my Republican/conservative communications skills.
Soothsayer
August 1st, 2010
11:03 am
Normal: go back and save my 9:09 to your favorites and watch it later. (It’s 25 min long.) There’s trouble in paradise.
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
11:03 am
A moral man knows the difference between right and wrong; an ethical man knows not to do what is wrong.
If you have to ask if something is ethical, you’ve already lost the argument.
N-GA
August 1st, 2010
11:11 am
An article from David Stockman, Ronald Reagan’s Director of Management and Budget: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/opinion/01stockman.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me
Dave R.
August 1st, 2010
11:13 am
“That’s why the President has the power of veto.”
Sorry, Soothsayer, but you need to know how government works to make that statement be true. Now, if our misguided Supreme Court hadn’t struck down the line item veto, I’d say you have a case. But when Congress can override any veto they want (or threaten to shut down government as the GOP did during Clinton’s years – thereby being vilified by every Dem out there for hurting the little people), the veto threat doesn’t carry much water.
Let’s go back to Reagan’s term. He had to get his priorities through Congress, one of which was out-spending the Soviets in order to kill that institution without having to bomb them out of existence. In order to get HIS spending, he had to give the Dems under Tip O’Neill THEIR spending. He could have vetoed the whole thing, but Congress gets pretty snippy when any President tries to tell them how to do their job.
Thus, every President and Congress have to play the spending game. A line item veto can get rid of this issue very quickly.
AmVet
August 1st, 2010
11:15 am
Taxpayer, here are a couple of other handy “conservative” phrases…
Judicial activism.
War on terror.
Moral equivalency.
BHO is a socialist, Marxist, communist, Trotskyite, Leninist, collectivist.
Mission Accomplished.
Use these with a serious look on your face, and you’ll be welcomed into the Pup Tent!