ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause
The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.
Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.
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883 comments Add your comment
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:47 pm
josef:
convert or die and be d*mned.
That reminds me of Hillbilly’s post the other day during the Sherrod affair. Something about there’s always someone ready to sacrifice us/them to the volcano. I should’ve saved it…one of his best.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
6:48 pm
eyes
Yes I do believe we can Americanize a faith…the Reformed Movement of the late 1700s and early 1800s is just such an example. There is a good reason it began when and where it did. Roman Catholics, more tied to a central authority, have long learned to “say one thing and do another” in their moves to modernize their ways of doing things, that is the understanding that the theological doctrine and the laws of the state are not always going to be one and the same in a pluralistic society.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
6:48 pm
SoCo,
I’m just wondering. If an Amrican citizen coming through your “gate” has made a point of being a Muslim by wearing long flowing robes, full beard, typical head gear and carrying the Koran, do you treat him without the slightest thought of apprehension? Do you not wonder if he is “good” or “bad”?
Is it good regulation to say he’s an American citizen so he’s OK?
Most American Muslims are good Americans. But…I do not think it wrong to remember that we have American soldiers fighting Muslim terrorists at the moment and risking their lives for us.
We all know that the Muslim faith requires very strong ties. Then it only seems sensible that we should be somewhat wary in our fairness. We missed the bomber with the flamable shoes. We missed the psychiatrist. We missed the students going to Pakistan to train with terrorists. Must we stand around in a cloud of superior fairness while our troops are being killed? Or citizens endangered?
Sorry, I believe in fairness but I do not believe in ‘make believe.goodness’. We have enemies. Ignoring, appeasing or assimilating them will not make them go away. (The 9/11 terror crews were assimilated into our society beforehand, much to end in American tragedy.)
Kamchak
July 31st, 2010
6:48 pm
The camel and the flying carpet!! Hey, that’s pretty good. The student should have laughed.
There’s your sign.
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
“You and the ADL can go ahead and surrender if you wish. The rest of us will fight for what is right”
Leftists supporting a long drawn out war? Since when?
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
6:52 pm
Jay
I’m nobody important. I just believe that if we give in to the fear of terrorism, we’re done as America. I refuse to see my country destroyed by a foreign enemy or from within. When we make decisions based on fears, they’re usually not the best decisions. I think this is one example of people making a decision based on fears and assumptions.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
6:53 pm
“Leftists supporting a long drawn out war? Since when?”
I’ll start with the Civil Rights movements….
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:56 pm
Saul:
I’ll start with the Civil Rights movements….
Indeed a victory, but you leftists refuse to acknowledge it.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
6:56 pm
Josef,
Personally, I am not fond of labels. In my youth, I may have characterized myself as someone on the radical left. On the other hand, throughout my life I have been all over the political spectrum depending on the issue. That’s a label would not likely work well on me. I am not wont to frequent liberal and/or progressive sites to get my game plan and talking points. It took me years and years to come to a conclusion on abortion (and my view is not exactly stuck in cement on that one). I felt at one time that If I was going to be against capital punishment, it would be tough to be pro choice. Today, I am for capital punishment but not pro life. I am strong supporter of gay and lesbian rights ( I would be a lesbian if I were a woman), convinced that we need to get rid of DADT, but I am not (don’t kill me) a proponent of gay marriage. I support the health care law, but it did not go far enough for me; I wanted a public option. I supported the first Iraq War, but not the current one. I was also an anti-war protester during the Viet Nam era, but I was Airman of the Month at Wakkanai Air Station in Japan. Oh, there’s more, but there’s no label that I can wear comfortably.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
6:56 pm
SoCo… that’s the very reason why Sting refused to cancel his show on 9-11…to do so would have let the terrorists “win”… that’s what they wanted…that’s what terrorism is all about: Fear and making people submit because of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odgbgXSdOu4
getalife
July 31st, 2010
6:58 pm
Obama was not invited to the wedding?
Disgusted
July 31st, 2010
7:02 pm
I just believe that if we give in to the fear of terrorism, we’re done as America.
Too late, SoCo. We’ve already given in. You can’t even go to an airport gate without being practically strip-searched. Would-be passengers have their toiletries removed before they can board planes. We can no longer cross and re-cross the Mexican and Canadian borders without having a form of a federal ID card. Travel to countries that once required no passport other than an ordinary drivers license as a form of ID is now restricted.
Let’s not kid ourselves, SoCo. Your job now is largely a result of our development of a terror of terror. We’ve allowed the terrorists to win. We now act like children worried about who’s under the bed or in the nearby closet. This entire hysteria about the building of a mosque near Ground Zero is evidence of our terror of terror.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:02 pm
Saul,
We went on with our work too on 9/11.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
7:02 pm
Dusty
I can’t go into the specifics, but as far as immigration laws, no American is subject to them when they come thru my area. If they can prove themself to be a bona fide American, I don’t look at them any differently regardless to how they dress or present themself.
Now, if you want to talk about targeting terrorists, I wouldn’t suspect a person as you describe because, if you haven’t noticed, the people who have been aprehended don’t present themselves that way. Any person intent on doing criminal actions try to blend in with their surroundings as much as possible as not to give themselves away.
If you worked with the people I do, you wouldn’t have any worries. I know I don’t.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:03 pm
Getalife:
Obama was not invited to the wedding?
There can only be one matron of honor.
(ISH)
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:04 pm
SoCo
What you say is so true. I send the anti-Bush ites into a snit when they take a pot shot at President Bush telling us to go shopping after 9/11. Well, in my estimation, he was right. For us to go cowering into fear was exactly what the terrorist were after. We did as he suggested…we took the kids to a movie at the mall, bought ice cream and went shopping. We were joined by our fellow citizens and I can never forget the looks we gave each other, a strange sort of smile and a recogntion that, yes, we were scared as sh*t but, d*mmit, we would not give up our way of life. It was, in a small but I believe significant way, an act of resistance…
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:05 pm
eyes
And what is your objection to gay marriage?
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:05 pm
If you’re all so proud of how you carried on in the face of terror attacks, why so much criticism of Bush’s “go shopping” comment. He was telling everyone to go on with their lives, but still….
left-wingers just could resist the need to ridicule.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
theyeshaveit,
I believe that the student asked Coulter is she came on a Flyng Carpet. Fantasy? Coulter merely replid in the same vein” And you on a camel!”
Maybe you don’t know but you can fly on a carpet at Disney World and the camels spit water on you as you fly by!!! Just updating you on the horrible insult by Coulter.i.e. More conjured up rubbish from liberals. Go fly a carpet!!
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
@@ it’s not over yet… not until bigotry is erased. Who is it defending gays and trying to help them obtain the same rights as all others have? I mean who is it that’s speaking up for the civil rights of Muslims? Peaceful ones who want to practice their religion as freely as you do.
Yeah I may be one of the BIGGEST organized religion bashers on here. Yet I don’t call for closing down all churches…making everyone who practices a religion denounce their faith and become an atheist. Do I state my views loudly and passionately? You betcha’! I might call out the hypocrisy I see in many organized religions…both with those running them and those following their leaders… yet I’ve never said that they all need to be abolished. Taxed? Sure… if they’re not operating as a 501c non profit…and reaping profit in the name of the “lord” or whomever… then it’s all “business” to me… yet feel free to search my quotes/posts and find the ones where I call for all churches to be shut down and all followers of Christianity to follow my own beliefs. So…I’ll state it again…here in our nation we’re all afforded the “right” to practice whatever religion we choose… it’s one of the things our nation was founded upon and why many have come here to our shores…from before we were a nation up until today and beyond. People have the right to practice whatever religion floats their boat…to give as much of their hard earned cash as they want to that religion… to plaster their religion all over our airwaves… yet here’s the grand finale: No ONE religion is any more important compared to any other religion in these United States…No religion gets MORE “rights” afforded to them under our Constitution over any other. Your religion is no more “important” to our nation then any other. To think any other way hints of bigotry.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin....
July 31st, 2010
7:08 pm
Still, the arguments against the Muslim center appear to be resonating. Polling shows that a majority of Americans oppose building it near ground zero.
Not all of us are surrender monkies, just sayin…
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
7:09 pm
Disgusted
I think there is a difference in protecting the citizens and giving in to fear. I don’t think there’s a 100% effective way to prevent against any attempted terrorist act without some type of security. If we decided to not better secure air travel or the borders, we’re only inviting repeat attacks. You’re talking about a group that will keep picking at a vulnerability until they are able to exploit it.
I don’t think we’ve given in to terror yet. If we get to the point of having security checkpoints to travel into the city or enter the mall, then we’ve given up.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:10 pm
couldn’t…make that couldn’t
IHB
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:11 pm
SAUL
“I might call out the hypocracy I see in organized religions…”
But not the hypocracy you might see in yourself? You want to be treated with respect, but you all to often don’t extend that respect…
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
7:14 pm
Kamchak,
We have long known your “sign”.. LIBERAL! And no matter what, it never changes.
I have a sign too. DINNER IS READY. You know what that means. RETREAT! And excuse me for laughing while leaving. Jay is gonna fight???? Awww phuleeze! Get a camel !!!
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:14 pm
Saul:
@@ it’s not over yet… not until bigotry is erased.
Are you kidding me? Are you looking to launch an effort in mind control??!!??
Let me know how it works out.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:15 pm
josef,
I knew that you would not miss that one. While I am an agnostic, I suppose some of my Catholic background my have still have some influence in my thinking. First, you should know that there was a time in my life (grad school years) that I would tell people “Marriage is not worth the paper it is written on). While I can certainly gay unions and equal rights for gay couple across the board (for example, filling returns as a couple), I still cannot get myself to fathom a “marriage” that did not involve a man and a woman. Similarly, I feel uncomfortable seeing a female minister marry a couple. I think that is some atavistic Catholic trait, too. But, but…..This is one those of those issues that I do not have my feet embedded in concrete on (just like abortion was years ago). And there is a personal thing that may be weighing in on my position. It involves my younger brother, and I would not be comfortable talking about that in the blogosphere.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:15 pm
josef…i will freely accept anyone bashing my views on organized religion… all are welcome to do so.. in fact many do… that’s to be understood. Yet I speak of MY beliefs and how I feel about organized religion. It’s a freedom I’m afforded here in our nation…just like those who “believe” are afforded their own beliefs and views.
Should I be “silenced” because of my opinions and views? Should Jay or the AJC simply moderate me whenever I state my own personal beliefs and opinions about religion? It’s their right to do so if they wish… yet if they ban “my” free speech…. who’s next?
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:16 pm
SoCo:
During the evening hours, there are two security guards standing outside my nearby Kroger.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:18 pm
The Wal-Mart too. All armed.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
7:19 pm
@@
Are they actively checking every person, vehicle, or anything else that enters the parking lot? That’s what I mean by security checkpoints. Those guards are there probably more for the criminal element than anything terror related.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:20 pm
@@…I’m not a “leader” in a so called movement… yet I find myself often being one who “supports” the “rights” of the underdogs who are being denied their rights. I’ve been that way a long time and probably always will be. I mean.. do I need to be “religious” myself in order to support religious freedom? Should I divorce my wife and become gay in order to support gay marriage? I certainly don’t have to become gay, or a Muslim, etc. to support their choice to marry or worship as they wish.
popeye
July 31st, 2010
7:20 pm
“SoCo
What you say is so true. I send the anti-Bush ites into a snit when they take a pot shot at President Bush telling us to go shopping after 9/11. Well, in my estimation, he was right. For us to go cowering into fear was exactly what the terrorist were after. We did as he suggested…we took the kids to a movie at the mall, bought ice cream and went shopping. We were joined by our fellow citizens and I can never forget the looks we gave each other, a strange sort of smile and a recogntion that, yes, we were scared as sh*t but, d*mmit, we would not give up our way of life. It was, in a small but I believe significant way, an act of resistance”…
Josef…You don’t know what fear is. Ask Del, Scout, Jackie, me and others who served in the jungles of Vietnam. what fear is really like!
To me except for the planes crashing into the buildings and pentagon it was just another day, no fear, no hiding under the bed, nothing!
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:21 pm
I believe that the student asked Coulter is she came on a Flyng Carpet. Fantasy? Coulter merely replid in the same vein” And you on a camel!”
Dusty,
No, it did not happen like that. I saw the video. The female student in Canada was aware that Ann Coulter had previously proposed that all muslims be banned from air travel. Coulter sarcastically underscored her idea by saying that if muslims did not like it that they should try using a flying carpet. The Canadian Muslim student asked of Coulter, “Ms. Coulter, since I do not have a flying carpet, how would your suggest that I travel?” To which Coulter responded, “Well, I don’t know. Why don’t you try a camel?”
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:21 pm
SoCo:
My guess is they’re watching for anything or anyone that looks suspicious.
Terrorists are criminals or don’t you agree?
Kamchak
July 31st, 2010
7:21 pm
Kamchak,
We have long known your “sign”.. LIBERAL! And no matter what, it never changes.
You throw that at my feet as a pejorative, and I will proudly pick it up and wear it.
You laugh at Coulter’s derisive comment and you still maintain that you’re a Christian?
Pathetic.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
7:21 pm
Good call, JB!
We’re not gonna let hyper-intolerant religious nutjobs do to this country what hyper-intolerant religious nutjobs have done to theirs.
The United States of America will not cower, no matter how much our home grown fear mongers want us to…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06pIHuL631c
Scout
July 31st, 2010
7:22 pm
Jay, et al:
1) You are the ones surrendering to a “religion” that is nothing more than a front for a machine that seeks to dominate the world by force under Sharia Law. How blind can you be ………….. but then before our involvement in WWII against the Nazi horror there were hundred of thousands of “German Americans” (mostly in the mid-west) who were VERY opposed to fighting the German nightmare.
So it doesn’t surprise me that so many of you could also be deceived. It goes with the territory.
2) Now, for some of you who are so upset with some church burning the “Koran” I assume you also believe that the burning of the American Flag, or Bush in effigy, or any number of other like protests that take place in this country practically everyday will also lead to the burning of people?
3) And Dusty:
A “domestic enemy” is anyone who would allow a foreign entity whose goal is the detruction of our way of life to even get a foothold here. “And so he bowed.”
4) Until those of you who feel the opposite from me (and millions of others) realize that Islam is NOT JUST A RELIGION you will continue to be duped. None of the other world religions are a threat to our democracy. Islam is.
TaxPayer
July 31st, 2010
7:22 pm
Anything of interest going on here today. I see @@ scoping out the security at Kroger.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:23 pm
Saul:
With all of my charitable endeavors, I’ve been bitten by underdogs.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
7:24 pm
ADL ……………. “Never Again” !!!
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:24 pm
eyes
You are honest enough to acknowledge an atavism involved. I can appreciate that. But the bottom line is that you’re not really for equal rights for gays, we’re supposed to take a second class designation. You’ll let us on the bus, we just have to know our place…back of the bus!
Saul
I am not at all for banning your free speech. Everytime the Bruin bans someone here, I protest and that includes when he has banned someone for their scurrilous comments my direction…
I’m not talking about free speech. I’m talking about good manners.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
7:27 pm
eyes, she has a long history of just making sh*t up on the fly to suit her parallel reality.
I guess she somehow thinks nobody notices…
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:28 pm
popeye
Don’t get too carried away…have you ever been attacked by the klan? That’s fear, too…I’m not trying to diminish your experience and don’t get me wrong…but…that’s not the only “real” fear in the world…
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:31 pm
On July 22, special agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and the FBI arrested Walter Bond in Denver and charged him with conducting the April 30 arson that destroyed a Glendale, Colo., business, the Sheepskin Factory, which sold a variety of sheepskin products. According to an affidavit completed by a special agent assigned to the Denver ATF field office, Bond used the nom de guerre, “ALF Lone Wolf” and boasted to a confidential informant that he not only torched the Sheepskin Factory but also was responsible for a June 5 fire at a leather factory in Salt Lake City and a July 3 fire at a restaurant in Sandy, Utah.–Stratfor
The ALF (Animal Liberation Front) was compared to the ELF (Earth Liberation Front) which was compared to Louis Beam, white supremacist.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
josef,
Do make me get into details. There is a big time unmentionable in my family. And I have seen you mention a “gay union” before. You did not use the word “marriage”. So, would not that, along with all the rights a hetero couple would enjoy, work? I will say this, however, I do support a gay/lesbian’s right to adopt.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:33 pm
josef,
I meant “do NOT make…”
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
AmVet,
Coulter lives in that parallel reality. She is the living embodiment and proof of string theory physics.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
Oh my!
“The arson at the Sheepskin Factory in Denver was done in defense and retaliation for all the innocent animals that have died cruelly at the hands of human oppressors. Be warned that making a living from the use and abuse of animals will not be tolerated. Also be warned that leather is every bit as evil as fur. As demonstrated in my recent arson against the Leather Factory in Salt Lake City. Go vegan! — ALF Lone Wolf”
A friend of yours, Saul?
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:36 pm
eyes
When straight folks have go to a Civil Union Bureau for a License of Civil Union in order to be recognized by the state, I’ll go for it…but so long as we’ve got a Marriage License for one group and a Civil Union for another…that ain’t equality!
popeye
July 31st, 2010
7:37 pm
No Josef,, I’m of Norwegian heritage the Klan has no reason to attack me. In fact I would’nt know where to go to get attacked.
What I was trying to point out to you….was the silliness of it all. “Go shopping” Well on that particular day I thought I would go have a couple of brews. Did not strap on my bandoleer, lock and load and proceed out the door under cover of the darkness.
Just another day with some mayhem in NYC…..
Now we have a real problem the first responders to 9/11 are becoming sick, and the party of NO once again steps up to the plate and votes no to their health issues.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:37 pm
AmVet,
Oh, we were talking about a fellow blogger. lol. Well, roger that.
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:38 pm
Another oh my!
The spokesman for the Animal Liberation Press Office is Dr. Jerry Vlasak, a California physician who, along with his wife, former child actress Pamelyn Ferdin (the voice of Lucy from Peanuts), are perhaps the highest profile animal rights activists in the country.
Lucy?????
TaxPayer
July 31st, 2010
7:39 pm
So, Bush did not say “go on with your lives” or “get back to work” or something similar. He specifically said to go shopping. To be good little consumers. Consumers for the corporations. Good little debtors, living on borrowed money. Bush was a horrible president. He and the GOP led this nation to the brink of disaster as though that was their game plan all along. I think it was and still is. By the way, Cheney is evil.
And what is this about Saul. Saul’s manners are just as good as any other blogger on here. Except mine.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:39 pm
Josef: “I’m not talking about free speech. I’m talking about good manners.”
Understandable…and I too hate when anyone gets banned for exposing their own views on any blog-forum, etc… yet lets take a look at Scout’s last post. (Without condemning you Scout for stating what I believe are your “views” more so then fact)… would you consider that as good manners? What of those who DO follow the Muslim faith and read that post? Does that not hurt them?
Josef…what you’ll find coming from me most of all…is pointing out what I see as large hypocrisy’s…and yes…since MOST who preach their religion on here come from the christian faith… but I gladly point out hypocrisy’s in the faith I was brought up with..and the whacky customs and beliefs attached to it (like pushing a button is “work” for some on the Sabbath…ugh!!!!)…. to me it’s nutty…always has been and always will be… yet you won’t find me outside a church, temple or mosque chanting and carrying a sign condemning their views and telling them to go away from my neighborhood. I’m way more “tame” in the “real” world and way less confrontational. Blogs-forums serve the purpose for many… a way for us to state our own opinions/views and debate our beliefs. I attack “conservatives” (and those who call themselves all the various flavors in the post Bush world) just as much as I do organized religion… yet I don’t start arguing, debating, and condemning the person I see at Kroger getting out of their car with a ‘W” sticker still affixed to it. I save that for THIS place.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:40 pm
josef,
OK. I hear you. Well, that which is me is evolving. We’ll see what happens.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:43 pm
I am not for banning someone for bad manners, but there ought to be a mute button.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:43 pm
Gotta go. My wife and I are going out.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:46 pm
popeye
I said we were scared as sh*t, we being the American people…
And as for the klan, well, I probably could run you a race for the Nordic Aryan in appearance…that doesn’t matter when you’re on the klan’s hit list…I have been…and, not unlike you, I went out, as I said, and went on about my daily life, but aware that giving in to the fear was not going to accomplish anything…just like going out and doing normal daily things with one eye out for the kluckers…just another day in Paradise…
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
7:47 pm
eyes, LOL!
As josef notes, there is a special place on the fifth level for Chairman Ann!
Dusty? She just needs to watch Pinocchio a few times!
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
7:49 pm
popeye,
Before I go, the fellow who survived the Killing Fields, you know, did not survive a drive by shooting in Los Angeles.
Out.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:51 pm
@@… Nobody does MORE injustice for vegans and Animal Rights compared to ALF. Second bananas are PETA… While I embrace my own vegan lifestyle…I’ll gladly condemn idiots who resort to violence and property destruction as being a means to get their views/points heard.
It’s like those who bust into a mink farm and let the animals out into the wild… the animals have no idea how to survive in the wild…so as harsh and as cruel as their lives were (and the death coming to them)… the starvation, death, etc they face in the wild is equally as cruel… let alone none of the “factories” they seek to shut ever are. Insurance replaces the animals..so in fact MORE animals die…and insurance rates go up for all business owners.
Like others who seek “change” for their causes… I find the best way to bring about an end to animal cruelty is through the passing of laws that give animals protection. Slow coming…but baby steps have been taken to protect animals over the years. So baby steps it is to continue to seek new and more powerful protections.
As I said before… there are those out there who believe that one day the WHOLE world can become vegan… I WTF are they thinking when they venture outside into the real world? HAve the ever passed the line at a Micky D’s thinking that all of those people will gladly give up meat and dairy? I’m far from being one of THOSE vegans. I simply don’t subscribe to many of the faulty logic and views of many “hardcore” Animal Rights Activists… in many ways they’re blind in their faith just the way some are too deeply blinded in their religious views. Fine when preached to their own choir… yet not so good when others take to “forcing” those views on the general public at large.
Lots and lots in my “industry” (the arts) are vegan… yet most don’t take off their clothes for PETA and blow up/torch factory farms… it’s those who do we all hear about more often. Einstein was a vegan… yet was he KNOWN for that? Nah…but many vegans will try to make you think that THAT was his biggest achievement… nutty is nutty…
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:52 pm
from the christian faith vs DO follow the Muslim faith
Too funny!
Saul:
It doesn’t hurt my feelings that you choose a lower-case “c” when talking about the Christian faith and an upper-case “M” when talking about the Muslim Faith.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
7:53 pm
AmVet
And it’s coming time for me to get off here and go to the Third!
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
7:58 pm
And what is this about Saul. Saul’s manners are just as good as any other blogger on here. Except mine.
Hey…a few drinks and I can gladly post what I REALLY believe about stuff!
(kidding)… I do my best to refrain from blogging while under the influence…yet I DO believe I’ve noticed some on here (without naming names) who take it “up” a notch as they day progresses. Well..as long as it keeps them off the road… it’s not such a BAD thing is it?
@@
July 31st, 2010
7:59 pm
I’ll gladly condemn idiots who resort to violence and property destruction as being a means to get their views/points heard.
How about those who celebrate it?
You do know that many Muslims, not all, celebrated the destruction of the Twin Towers on September 11. There are countless videos of Muslims throughout the world doing just that.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
7:59 pm
@@
Terrorists are indeed criminals. It doesn’t seem like everyone shares in that opinion however as countries declare war on criminal enterprises. If you twist the definition enough, almost any criminal could be considered a terrorist. Take the drug cartels and street gangs as examples. They gain power thru fear and intimidation. I’d be willing to bet those are the targets that the security guards are after. I don’t think there are too many security firms that have the security clearance to obtain intel on our international jihadist terror groups. I’m not saying that they couldn’t prevent any attack, but I don’t see that as being their primary targets. Call it a professional hunch, if you wish.
popeye
July 31st, 2010
8:00 pm
“WE..being the American people.”
Josef, As always you give me a lesson for thought.
But on that particular day I had taken my copy of “my pet goat” from the bookcase so I could read along with President Bush as he related the story to the children as they stared in awe. At a point in his reading when Andrew Card whispered something in his ear I thought he had stumbled over one of those four letter words, and was trying to help him out.
It wasn’t until much later I realized that a bunch of Saudi Arabians had attacked us, and that we needed to attack Iraq for this misdeed.
But scared….No way!
@@
July 31st, 2010
8:00 pm
Oops! That 7:59 was for Saul.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
8:01 pm
It doesn’t hurt my feelings that you choose a lower-case “c” when talking about the Christian faith and an upper-case “M” when talking about the Muslim Faith.
My mistake…they should ALL be lower cased! Darn computer auto spell check is constantly trying to “change” that on me… sometimes it sneaks it through… like most things I misspell…i just keeping typing…take no offense… if left to me…ALL names of religion would always have the lower case letter at their beginning. My “right” to do so…right?
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
8:01 pm
Just my 2 cents worth on 9/11, but I thought Bush should have declared a national day of mourning, like what was done when Kennedy was killed. Telling us to go shopping was tacky.
Kamchak
July 31st, 2010
8:01 pm
Hey…a few drinks and I can gladly post what I REALLY believe about stuff!
In vino veritas.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
8:04 pm
@@ “You do know that many Muslims, not all, celebrated the destruction of the Twin Towers on September 11. There are countless videos of Muslims throughout the world doing just that.”
I do know that and like most of the TV viewing world have seen it… it’s sad…it’s disgusting…and it’s equally as disgusting seeing Palestinians or any others chant in the street after an attack on Israel… all it does it fan the flames of hate and fuel the fire of violence. It’s one of the things I “hate” about religion and the divisions it causes around the world… the “us vs. them” mentality. Works both ways…
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
8:06 pm
“In vino veritas.”
Agreed! One of the best “truth serums” ever invented…
popeye
July 31st, 2010
8:06 pm
@@….I’ll gladly condemn idiots who resort to violence and property destruction as being a means to get their views/points heard.”
@@ You ever heard of Vietnam? Perhaps you should start condemning Truman, Eiesenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. For total fabrication into the lead-up and consequences of this war where violence and property destruction was beyond anything since Nagasaki!
58,000 american lives…over 2 million vietnamese lives including women and children!
TaxPayer
July 31st, 2010
8:11 pm
You do know that many Muslims, not all, celebrated the destruction of the Twin Towers on September 11. There are countless videos of Muslims throughout the world doing just that.
Proof that Rush Limbaugh and his ilk have not yet cornered the audio-visual market on hate mongering.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
8:13 pm
“58,000 american lives…over 2 million vietnamese lives including women and children!”
Gulp.
That’s enough to make one want to become a liberal, vegan, anti war pacifist…
And on that note: To all a GOODNIGHT!
@@
July 31st, 2010
8:14 pm
SoCo:
I’m just methin’ wit’cha about the Kroger security, but we do live in fear of some of our fellow Americans everyday. Not so much me, but others do.
It truly is a shame that kids aren’t free to roam like they used to, knowing that the community will look out for them.
Share a little story with you. My daughter and a friend just took a 4-day road trip on The Bourbon Trail (Kentucky). She called me every night to share her excitement. At one distillery she encounters a group of guys (15-20) on their Harleys all tattooed with long hair. She tells her friend….”We’re gonna drop back and tour with those guys. They look like they’d be fun.” She tells me all this while waiting.
I told her “Why not, they’re probably weekend road warriors…work regular jobs during the week and take road trips just like you when they’re not.”
“I’m gonna get my picture made with ‘em, Mom” she says.
Alrighty din!
I turn on the T.V. and catch a documentary about the One Percenters…the one percent of motorcycle clubs that are of the criminal element. Many have been easily fooled by those guys. They deal in narcotics, prostitution, and have even committed murder. They like to engage young women for the purpose of gang rape.
I immediately call her back to tell her she can go on the tour with ‘em but nowhere else.
Overreaction? Sure, but I’m her mother.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
8:19 pm
@@
I’ve met some 1%er’s before. Away from the group and influence, they’re some ok guys. I just wouldn’t hang out with them on the regular. I don’t blame you at all for that 2nd call. I would have done the same.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
8:19 pm
Jay, et al
Multiple Choice Quiz:
Which of the following “religious” entities in the United States requires untold millionis in taxpayer money and immense NSA, Military Intelligence, CIA, FBI (to name a few) assets to conduct investigations and physical surveillances of places of worship, community service establishments, places of education, etc. via undercover FBI agents, paid informants and sophisticated electronic means:
a) Roman Catholic Church
b) Methodist Church
c) Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons)
d) Church of God
e) Southern Baptist Church
f) Judaism (all forms)
g) Lutheran Church
h) Presbyterian Church
i) Episcopal Church
j) Mennonnite Church
k) Church of the Brethren
l) Nazarene Church
m) 7th Day Adventist Church
n) Quakers
o) Church of Christ
p) Islam
@@
July 31st, 2010
8:20 pm
popeye:
It would be great if war wasn’t a reality, but unfortunately it is. I don’t celebrate it. I do, however, accept reality and the consequences therein.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
8:22 pm
popeye :
What responsibility would you lay at the feet of the North Vietnamese (if any) considering that when the border was still open (before the war ever started) hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese fled south but virtually none fled north (i.e., East & West Berlin and North & South Korea).
popeye
July 31st, 2010
8:26 pm
@@…You totally missed my point.
“It would be great if war wasn’t a reality, but unfortunately it is. I don’t celebrate it. I do, however, accept reality and the consequences therein.”
What i was saying is you wrote “I’ll gladly condemn idiots who resort to violence and property destruction as being a means to get their views/points heard.”
What do you think the United States does everytime it goes to war? The last justifiable war we have ever been in began on December 7, 1941.
So why are you not condemning what is going on right now in Iraq and Afghanistan?
popeye
July 31st, 2010
8:31 pm
Scout ..What does that matter?
Vietnam was nothing to us. No threat, no reason to be there, but all of a sudden are presence is inserted first as so-called advisors, then a little escalation here, a big lie there, and all of a sudden
B-52’s are lining up out of Thailand to drop their payload all over the place.
@@
July 31st, 2010
9:14 pm
popeye:
What i was saying is you wrote “I’ll gladly condemn
Oops! Those were Saul’s words that I neglected to italicize.
get out much?
July 31st, 2010
9:18 pm
It’s not surprising. After all, they were the group that opposed the Carmelite Nuns convent that was at Auschwitz. They also opposed the cross the nuns left behind when they were forced to move back in 1993.
@@
July 31st, 2010
9:19 pm
And popeye?
You may wanna talk to the left-wingers who called for military intervention in Darfur. Don’t know if they still feel that way. I’m thinking it was just their way of extricating the U.S. from Iraq.
It’s hard to tell with left-wingers. One day they want this, the next day, that.
Del
July 31st, 2010
9:33 pm
Kennedy saw Vietnam as an opportunity to cover up his otherwise foreign policy failures. LBJ saw Vietnam as an opportunity to finance his “Great Society” with American Blood. Richard Nixon saw it as his opportunity to get elected.Get over it brothers, because it’s over and now we have to turn our attention to yet another politicians war that has and will kill young Americans in the name of getting elected/reelected. FuxK a bunch of politics, that’s what it gets down to.
TaxPayer
July 31st, 2010
9:35 pm
It’s easy to spot right wingers. They’ll borrow money with your credit card to go hire someone to try and preempt yore azz if you disagree with them and they disagree with everything. The only way to get a right winger to look at you is to get on their right side and then they get all disagreeable with you for daring to be farther to the right than they are. But if you know how to just say no, you’ll get along with them just fine. That and a “You Lie” and “I Object” and you got yourself a right wing social function with all the fixins.
popeye
July 31st, 2010
9:50 pm
Suprise…suprise….
Del….Now you’re talking common sense. I got over it a long long time ago. However you and Scout
bring up those sh*tty memories every night with your incessant babbling about those good ole days back in the NAM!
@@
July 31st, 2010
9:54 pm
Uh Oh! It looks like President Obama’s narcissism is showing.
…several Democratic candidates and party leaders said in interviews that they were not sure Mr. Obama’s political operation was focused on the 2010 fight, and they questioned whether the president sees himself as the head of the party.
A huge database of people who supported Mr. Obama’s presidential bid remains off-limits to other Democrats, unless special exceptions are made. Several elected officials have complained that requests for fund-raisers and other types of help get lost in the bureaucracy and are not granted until repeated appeals are made. And members of Congress have raised objections for not being notified that grants or federal projects would be announced in their districts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/us/politics/01obama.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:00 pm
popeye:
“Scout ..What does that matter?”
“No one is free when others are oppressed.” Author Unknown
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:01 pm
Has there ever been a presidential campaign where a sitting president was confronted with a candidate from his own party? That would be interesting.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:02 pm
I see Jay or no one else has taken the quiz at my 8:19. Figures.
@@
July 31st, 2010
10:11 pm
Scout:
Your quiz is an easy “A” that would result in an “F” for the left-wingers.
———————————————————–
The government is on a search and destroy mission.
Government investigators have interviewed at least two Boston-area acquaintances of an Army intelligence analyst suspected of leaking a trove of classified documents about the Afghanistan war to the online site WikiLeaks, according to the acquaintances.–WaPo
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:13 pm
It’s somewhat impolite to bring up a problem without a solution so here it goes regarding Islamic terrorism.
1) First, two crimes specifically mentioned in the U.S. Constitution are treason and counterfeiting.
2) If one is caught today with counterfeit money in their car, boat, motorcycle, plane, or other conveyance …….. guess what happens? That conveyance now belongs (it is seized) to the U.S. Government. It doesn’t matter if you borrowed the car from your brother-in-law. He is just going to be very, very unhappy with you. I seized many a car in my day and watched them weep.
3) Therefore, any mosque, community center, school, etc. that is found in any way to be harboring violent people, plans, meetings, speech, receipt of funds pertaining thereto, etc., etc. ……….. said property, buildings, bank accounts, etc. should be seized by the U.S. Government in addition to strenuous prosecution for criminal violations involving terrorism. The property is NO LONGER THEIRS !
The also goes for ANY “religious” or other entity advocating violence or the overthrough of the government.
4) Shut down our borders.
5) Continue non-stop 24/7 the “elimination” (by whatever means necessary) of Islamic or other terrorists around the world.
Give no quarter.
Black flag.
6) Scrutinize any immigrant coming to the U.S. legally. Anyone with a “hint” of connection to activity determental to our liberty is excluded …………. end of discussion.
Coming to this country is a privilege ……….. NOT A RIGHT.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:15 pm
@@:
That’s why they are pretty quiet. Notice how the like to call names, or just say your wrong ……… but they won’t address any of my specific points …….. even Jay.
Remember ………. liberals go on feelings …………. conservatives on logic.
Ooo Rah!
P.S. What did you think of my 10:13 ? Feel free to add any of your own.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
10:17 pm
Attention on Deck All Liberals, Attention on Deck All Liberals:
You are hereby commanded to read the below and memorize the last paragraph.
The smoking lamp (but not pot) is lit !
“In the seventh century of the Christian era a wandering Arab, of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combing the powers of transcendent genius with the preternatural energy of a fanatic and the fraudulent spirit of an imposter, proclaimed himself as a messenger from heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth.”
“Adopting, from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God, he connected indissolubly with it the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion.”
“He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war as part of his religion against all the rest of mankind. The essence of his doctrine was violence and lust; to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.”
“Between these two religions, thus contrasted in the characters, a war of more than twelve hundred years has already raged. That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extincture of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute are encouraged to furnish motives to human action, there never can be peace on earth and good will toward men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him.”
John Quincy Adams, 1830
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
10:17 pm
Has there ever been a presidential campaign where a sitting president was confronted with a candidate from his own party? That would be interesting.
Ted Kennedy against Jimmy Carter in 1980 comes to mind. I’m sure there’ve been others but that one came to mind, instantly.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
10:18 pm
Honest, this crowd gets real stuffy at times. Back to the muslim student: She asked a loaded question and she got a loaded reply. SOOOOOO??? Big deal! And liberals still talking about it. They don’t have much excitement in their lives.
AmVet is in real need for sure. He’s still trying to date his early love Tokyo Rose. And Kamchak is still carrying around signs. I hope he gets paid well for carrying those things all the time.