ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause
The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.
Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.
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883 comments Add your comment
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
3:15 pm
Del –
“And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’”
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 3
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
3:15 pm
Jones wrote a book titled “Islam is of the Devil,” and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.
You must be very proud…
Well of course. Think of how hard so many have worked to demonize a billion and a half of our fellow human beings!
Del
July 31st, 2010
3:20 pm
Scout@2:23pm,
You make the point of why don’t Muslims here in America simply disavow world wide Islam and begin their own sect here. I’ve often stated that Muslims generally, be it here in this country or elsewhere have been mostly silent In condemning acts of terrorism committed in the name of Islam. Islam is a religion, an ideology and a culture that believes in eventual world domination. We need to recognize that fact.
popeye
July 31st, 2010
3:27 pm
Del
July 31st, 2010
3:05 pm
Whatever Joe said, at least he had the integrity to vote NO on a war that should have never been fought.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
3:33 pm
pop- Biden voted in favor of invading Iraq but you keep nattering on, ok?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
3:38 pm
The dummycrats have as much of We The People’s money as they need so-
U.S. Drinking Rate Edges Up Slightly to 15-Year High
Glug, glug, glug obozo!
popeye
July 31st, 2010
3:39 pm
Reporter I was just responding to Del’s comment which read.
“And Joe Biden said that Iraq is a success that George Bush and Obama both share. I think Joe was one of the Dem’s who voted against the Iraq war. Democrats sure are predictable in their hypocrisy since they were taken over by the far-left.
Notice the “I think Joe was one of the Dem’s who voted against the Iraq war”. Hey all you conned have different stories. I guess I won’t trust the written word of any con going forward.
@@
July 31st, 2010
3:46 pm
This is interesting:
WASHINGTON — The Social Security Administration is about to terminate cash assistance for thousands of indigent refugees who are severely disabled or over the age of 64.
“You will lose your Supplemental Security Income on Oct. 1,” the agency says in letters being mailed to more than 3,800 refugees.
All fled persecution or torture. Many are too old or infirm to work and are not yet eligible to become United States citizens.
The extension of benefits in 2008 had bipartisan support. Indeed, President George W. Bush had asked Congress to extend the deadline, saying that “some individuals have been unable to obtain citizenship within the seven-year time limit.”
But no bill has been introduced in either chamber of Congress to help refugees facing the loss of benefits this year.
As a senator, President Obama was co-sponsor of a bill extending refugees’ eligibility for cash assistance, and as a presidential candidate he emphasized his support for it. But the administration has not taken a position this year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/us/01benefits.html
I guess Obama doesn’t want to repeat ALL of Bush’s mistakes, just those that are of greater importance.
Jay
July 31st, 2010
3:48 pm
Del, the imam of the mosque in question has condemned 9/11 as “a day that will live in infamy,” noting that “no nation could suffer such an assault without responding in a very robust way,” among other statements, as I noted.
In his book, he proposed creation of a uniquely American brand of Islam, which might then help moderate the radical strains of Islam practiced elsewhere, much as Scout proposes. He has also been lauded by Jewish leaders here and in Israel for his moderation and leadership.
Of course, we’ve seen exactly where all that got him from folks such as Scout, the ADL, Gingrich and others.
Del
July 31st, 2010
3:50 pm
Joe Biden voted against the first Gulf war and in so doing supported Saddam Hussien’s occupation of Kuwait. He voted for the invasion of Iraq and spoke on the Senate floor about the long and short term dangers associated with Saddam’s Iraq. He not long ago commented on the success in Iraq, saying that both GWB and Obama share credit. Integrity? yeah sure.
@@
July 31st, 2010
3:55 pm
A more positive impact would be for the Mosque’s leaders to adhere to the call for understanding put forth by the ADL. That would be like the two coming together in the interest of all. Short of that it comes down to nothing but money already invested.
Del
July 31st, 2010
3:59 pm
Jay,
I’ve not read any of those comments. I would have to review them and if accurate would moderate my views accordingly. However, I still maintain that those who’ve planned this Islamic center, have done so with little appreciation for the feelings of those who lost loved ones and for their fellow Americans who share their grief and who remain appalled at that horrific 9-11 attack in the name of Islam.
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:06 pm
What’s with investigating black representatives for ethics violations when white (Dodd) and Gay (Franks) get a pass?
Spread the love equally, why don’t they.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:10 pm
“Check it out dude, Christ was born of the flesh for the pure reason that the Old Testament law was faulty.”
Reporter–If OT law was “faulty” and Jesus’s purpose on earth was to overturn said law, then how do you interpret the following passages from the NT:
Matthew 5:17-20: Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 7:7-12: What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
“If you want to lecture us, stick to simple things you know, like diaper filling and such.”
The bottom line is that your “personal” beliefs are in direct contradiction to the very book you claim they are based upon. If you don’t really believe the Bible, then quit saying you do.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
4:11 pm
Jay,
Please tell us how many imans in the country or even NYC have endorsed this American brand of Islam? I get the feeling that this is but “one voice crying in the wilderness”.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:15 pm
“Christ replied “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” The idiot liberals/ Islamic wannabes scurried away, leaving the woman, Mary, with Jesus.”
In light of all of the stone-throwing you do here on the JB blog on a daily basis, can we assume then that you are without sin, Reporter? Just curious…..
BTW, if being a sinner precludes us from enforcing the law, then exactly who is qualified to enforce it? In my lifetime, I haven’t met anyone who was sin-free.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
4:22 pm
I have read some of what this imam has written and comments he has made, but not enough to come to any real conclusion as to his politics and theological perspectives. He did, however, make a point that we should all remember during this debate. His congregation lost members on 9/11, too.
Though we have had Muslims in the Americas since Columbus’ voyage, in the United States, as a presence, they are relatively recent arrivals and just as our Jews, Catholics, Anabaptists, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, and what have you, the Muslim Americans are faced with their own assimilation-amalgamation-accomodation process. That is not an easy task and takes generations to accomplish. Given time and tolerance, Islam will, as have all these others, develope its own peculiarly “American” brand.
The process has already begun. It is just that we are still, “they” and “us” alike, fixated on the differences. It is up to the elements of American Islam who are second, third or more generation and those from liberal, western-style democracies to lead the way. And it is this latter element we should be sensitive to in such matters as this mosque…we don’t want to wind up like the French, sending out fashion police and deporting anyone we just don’t like, or like the Swiss, denying a faith the right to build a house of worship in keeping with the architectural and ritualistic traditions.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
4:23 pm
“…have done so with little appreciation for the feelings of those who lost loved ones and for their fellow Americans who share their grief and who remain appalled at that horrific 9-11 attack in the name of Islam.”
Not really sure how that can be quantified, but I understand the point.
Yet, it pales in comparison to *true* evil as spoken by one the greatest darlings of America’s right wing/lunatic fringe:
These broads are millionaires, lionized on TV and in articles about them, reveling in their status as celebrities and stalked by grief-arazzies. I have never seen people enjoying their husbands’ death so much.” ~Chairman Ann Coulter
An absolutely despicable woman that is absolutely adored by several of the the right wing bloggers here…
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:28 pm
“Many posters will no doubt disagree with me but I will not be silent. I know who the main enemy of world peace is and it must be stopped in its tracks.”
Scout, Reporter, and Dusty–If it makes you feel any better, I fear those who profess deep faith in Islam far more than I do those who profess deep faith in Christianity, but only based on recent history. I don’t think Islam is any more fundamentally flawed as a religion than Christianity is. As such, I don’t see any reason to disrespect the “establishment/non-establishment” clauses in our Constitution.
“However, I still maintain that those who’ve planned this Islamic center, have done so with little appreciation for the feelings of those who lost loved ones and for their fellow Americans who share their grief and who remain appalled at that horrific 9-11 attack in the name of Islam.”
Del–Fortunately our Constitution is not based on any “appreciation of feelings”. I say fortunately, because said feelings depend strictly on individual tastes and preferences, which have no place in law-making. I don’t like to invoke the over-used “slippery-slope” arguments, but if ever a slippery-slope there was, “appreciation of feelings” would be one of the slipperiest. Believe me, I was just as PO’d following 9/11 as any other American, particularly because I experienced an immediate drop in business due to people’s fear. However, I still don’t see that as a valid reason to change the Constitution.
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:28 pm
josef:
The left doesn’t want to be like the French and Swiss? Then why do they want to model our government after theirs?
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
4:32 pm
Bruno
I agree with your assessment from a purely Constitutional viewpoint.
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:32 pm
Our Constitution isn’t based on feelings? Then why does Obama choose to seat empathetic justices?
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
4:36 pm
@@
at 4:28
I won’t go so far as to say the left wants to model our government on the French or the Swiss. And the current regimes in those two are from the conservative parties. But I am concerned that our own liberals here on the blog have been among the strongest supporters of banning the burqa, have been strangely silent on the Swiss ban of the minaret and have had nothing to say about Sarkozy and company’s recent actions…our left, just as our right, operates under a double standard according to the latest memo, and both “sides” are as likely to go goose-stepping back the the 1930s (and NO I didn’t say 1940s!) while accusing the opposition of doing just that…
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:37 pm
“An absolutely despicable woman that is absolutely adored by several of the the right wing bloggers here…”
Brother Am–I consider myself to be a hard-core conservative insofar as I support a strict reading of our Constitution, including the parts I don’t particularly agree with. In spite of believing that Obama is likely the worst/most dangerous President we have had in my lifetime, I acknowledge that he won the election fair and square and would not support any illegal method of getting him out of office.
Having said that, I also find Ann Coulter to be a cowardly, despicable woman who does not speak for me in any way, shape or fashion.
P.S. Out of curiosity, why do you think that some of the other self-described “right-wingers” here can’t accept my blog friendship with you. It seems they feel the need to tell me on a regular basis what a horrible person you are and warn me not to have anything to do with you. Any theories?
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
4:39 pm
WTF…WTF…I’m on the same side of an issue with CT and Bookman(tho not for the same reasons I am sure)….global warming is no more!!!, cause Hell just froze over solid!!!
Sure the mohammedons have a right to erect a temple to their pedophile mohammed anywhere that is zoned for cult worship..It’s in bad taste for the mohammedons to use ground zero, but the best way to combat it is to open a 24 hour all pork deli next door….not get the POS government involved.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
4:41 pm
Our Constitution isn’t based on feelings? Then why does Obama choose to seat empathetic justices?
I guess it’s for the same reason that people want the Muslims to be empathetic towards building their cultural center.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
4:43 pm
I need the mosque’s shipping address so I can send them Ramadan hams..all allahs children love ramadan hams,
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
4:47 pm
On Anne Colter
I remember quite a few years back, when Anne was just getting started on the talking head circuit. She was in competition with several others to be the “female conservative”. At that time, most of the things she said were along the lines of what the others were saying. Somewhere along the way, she discovered that the “nasty persona” would separate her from the pack. (I’d seen the same thing happen locally with Neal Boortz, in the late 70’s). So she adopted the act and rose up the ladder. I believe a lot of what she says, as with others on both sides of the talking head circuit, is largely an act. It’s a cynical act in my view, but an act none the less. So in essence, she sold her soul for 30 pieces of silver, so to speak. So basically, I just choose to ignore her and those like her (which is most of them) on both sides of the political spectrum.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
4:48 pm
10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
This is not faulty enough for Bruno?
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:50 pm
“I agree with your assessment from a purely Constitutional viewpoint.”
Thanks, SC. That doesn’t make me right, but your endorsement means a lot to me due to your reasoned/common sense responses to the various issues of the day.
“Our Constitution isn’t based on feelings? Then why does Obama choose to seat empathetic justices?”
Obama is free to endorse whatever judges he wants, based on any crazy or invalid reason he chooses. However, his choices still must go through the same acceptance process that every other judge before them did. He is not free to circumvent the Constitutional process. The Constitution is extremely clear in the matter of religion–all are to be treated the same in the eyes of the law, and the free expression of any given religion is not to be restricted for any reason, particularly not for any reason of personal preference. I’m not sure why this seems to be such a hard concept to grasp and why the dangers of NOT adhering to this policy aren’t more apparent to the Islam-haters on board here.
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:51 pm
Bruno:
You are more than welcome to be AmVet’s bosom buddy, just don’t try to sell me his “tender” heart.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
4:52 pm
Scout- Are you still ritually slaughtering goats and such, as the Old Testament commands, or is Bruno a moonbat?
popeye
July 31st, 2010
4:52 pm
“Our Constitution isn’t based on feelings? Then why does Obama choose to seat empathetic justices”?
I would hazard that right now we have 5 justices who want to p*ss all over the constitution! Not to mention Stare decisis.
So let’s get a justice who will interperet laws fairly not to go RIGHT WING like Alito, Roberts, and the twins Scalia and Thomas.
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:54 pm
It would have been so much better had I said:
…don’t try to sell me the boob.
DANG! I hate to miss good opportunities.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
4:55 pm
“the best way to combat it is to open a 24 hour all pork deli next door….not get the POS government involved.”
Good one, SPQR. In a free America, you can do that. You’re free do voice your objection to anything you like, and I hope it stays that way. The alternative is unacceptable to me.
BTW, I ate a barbeque sandwich in front of my Muslim buddy a little while ago. Do I need to sweep the house for bombs?
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
4:55 pm
Ah ritual sacrifice..those were the days…
@@
July 31st, 2010
4:55 pm
Reading this blog is like listening to a continuous loop tape.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
4:58 pm
Bruno, I agree 100%..consistent is my middle name….
yet I bet if i actually did open an all pork deli/24/7 porn theater next to said mosque, bookman would not be so …emotional..about my rights to do so under our constitution, if the mohammedons complained… methinks.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
4:59 pm
Bruno
My way of approaching situations is the main reason why I don’t associate myself with any particular political movement. There are things I see as both good and bad that comes from the left and right. To align myself with one side over the other would be to compromise my personal beliefs on what I see as bad from that particular side. I just don’t see the need for me to compromise myself just to belong to any group.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
5:00 pm
Bruno
If that sandwich was beef, you’re ok. If it was pulled pork, I’d step lightly
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
5:03 pm
BADA, Ramadan Hams!
Very funny and most yummy!
(But be careful, the REAL Jews like josef might take umbrage at that shared culinary peculiarity!)
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
5:03 pm
No oil to be found from the weakest environmental “disaster” ever, but the dummycrats are busy creating some damages for it-
It would hit energy producers with a new $2-per-barrel tax to buy land for national parks, forests and wildlife refuges.
I wonder if the dimwits realize who gets to pay this $2 a barrel tax? Are they truly stupid enough to think oil producers will pay it, er, um, yeah, I guess they are, nevermind…
Priceless
July 31st, 2010
5:04 pm
Reading this blog is like listening to a continuous loop tape.
You could always use a stethoscope on yourself and skip the typing.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:05 pm
“Scout- Are you still ritually slaughtering goats and such, as the Old Testament commands, or is Bruno a moonbat?”
Reporter–Although Christians like to believe that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross supplanted animal sacrifice, there are no direct commandments in the Bible saying that explicitly. I dont have a problem with this modification because I personally believe that killing innocent animals in the name of God is both stupid and cruel. However, I don’t claim to be an adherent to a literal Bible. Do you? If so, then I will assume that you oppose the non-Biblical practices of celebrating Christmas and Easter along with the non-Biblical practice of worshipping on Sunday.
The bottom line, Reporter, is that I don’t give a flying F how you choose to worship whatever Deity you choose to worship. That is your right as an American to choose as you wish. But don’t give me any malarkey about following the Bible in any literal way, because you don’t.
Don’t know if anyone is keeping score here, but I’ve got Bruno: 3, Reporter: 0 so far.
BADA BING
July 31st, 2010
5:06 pm
AM VET Can’t take credit, not my post. Thanx
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
5:06 pm
If that sandwich was beef, you’re ok. If it was pulled pork, I’d step lightly
If it wasn’t pork, it wasn’t really barbeque.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
5:07 pm
As my grampy would say, if it was beef, it wasn’t BBQ in the first place
Del
July 31st, 2010
5:07 pm
Bruno,
I never couched it in the context of a constitutional argument. I’ve simply been saying, it’s understandable that people, Gingrich being one to question the source of funding for the project, the projects name “Cordoba”, which is inflammable, it’s location only two blocks away from ground zero as well as the feelings of those who’ve lost loved ones in that horrific act of terrorism committed in the name of Islam. At very least the Muslim planners exercised very little appreciation for the feelings of Americans. In particular those directly effected. I’ve also stated that I have not heard the strong condemnation from the Muslim community of radical Islamic terrorists, I feel we should expect from a peaceful religion. There have been a lot of straw man arguments from those on the left attempting to paint those of us have a different opinion as bigots, hypocrits, bigots, ignoring the constitution etc., only because we disagree with Jay’s critical comments of the ADL.
@@
July 31st, 2010
5:11 pm
Bruno: Don’t know if anyone is keeping score here, but I’ve got Bruno: 3, Reporter: 0 so far.
Only you, Bruno. Nobody else cares.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
5:11 pm
“P.S. Out of curiosity, why do you think that some of the other self-described “right-wingers” here can’t accept my blog friendship with you. It seems they feel the need to tell me on a regular basis what a horrible person you are and warn me not to have anything to do with you. Any theories?”
Bruno, it is hard to say. And to your credit, you noticed it almost immediately upon joining us here. Why my views, drive several of them batshiite crazy is a mystery to me. Like I matter? And even stranger still is how, as you noted, my most obsessed stalker likes to “warn people about me”. But part of this dovetails with that fatal flaw of speaking for others. It is childish (by admission) and rather desperate, isn’t it?
I suspect it has something to do with the power that they give my words and by proxy, me. I do not do so in return and there’s the rub.
But in case someone hasn’t noticed, this is an opinion blog. And I’m just another swinging dick with plenty of opinions. Which as we all know, are just like ________. Oftentimes I am vulgar and irreverent and controversial. But that is just my personal shtick.
And there are several right wingers here who have been very civil and reasoned and reasonable with me – you (although I suspect you are really a mealy mouthed RINO/liberal!), Del (Salute!) and Dave R, Scout and Dusty at times. Even NiF and I bridged some gaps one Friday night, which lasted off and on until he blew a fuse recently and was sent to the blogging Land of Nod, east of AJC Eden!
And even Andy and I get along infinitely better than we used to at Luckovich’s. (Oy, the stories!) Yes, we take jabs at each other occasionally but like me, he doesn’t pay them an undue amount of attention.
So the bottom line is, I think your original assessment is correct, “Are most of the right wingers here crazy?”
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 31st, 2010
5:12 pm
@amvet,
yeah my earlier idea for fluffy passover yeast rolls never was a hit..but nobody died
Muslims riot when you draw a cartoon of the pedo mohammed so ramdan hams might result in a small scale nuclear war on the subcontinent..but worth it if i can make a buck
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
5:13 pm
Sorry BADA (and SPQR).
Still damn funny.
Del
July 31st, 2010
5:14 pm
josef@4;43pm,
When you say that it’s up to American Muslims and those Muslims from western style democracies to lead the way, I agree completely. I don’t feel as though they recognize that as their obvious responsibility and wonder why not.
@@
July 31st, 2010
5:15 pm
But in case someone hasn’t noticed, this is an opinion blog. And I’m just another swinging dick with plenty???? of opinions.
More like a one dick pony, I’d say.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
5:16 pm
Aahhh, Bruno runs his victory lap totally void of the knowledge that he is the one taking the Bible literally, not me.
What a bozo.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
5:16 pm
AmVet
Shoo-ee,,,I was just before telling laissez to put me on his Pesach ham list! I love my NC style pork barbecue.
I’ve got a cousin raised Orthodox who married an Hindu when he was in Sri Lanka…a barbecue at their place is great! Somebody asked her about the beef. She said, “Aw Hindus are like Baptists, they’ll take a bite of Great Aunt Bessie when they think no one’s looking, too!” Somebody asked them about the kids, “oh, we’re raising them Episcopalians…if you gotta pick a country club, then go for the most exclusive…!”
SoCo
That on Anne Coulter…that’s so true. That’s why I get so tickled whenever anybody takes any of the talking heads seriously…entertainers, one and all…that’s why I like Jon Stewart and Colbert so much…they are entertainers, but have a lot more of substance to say about the issues of the day.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
5:20 pm
SPQR, at least I am an equal opportunity poke fun at religion guy. You know, Fair and Balanced.
And though I know it’s out there. I’ve found precious little material to work with regarding the Shintos, Buddhists and Confucianists!
Fortunately the three Abrahamic faiths seem to have an endless supply…
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:20 pm
“If it wasn’t pork, it wasn’t really barbeque.”
I’m definitely a barbeque “fundamentalist”–pulled pork only. Even chopped pork doesn’t make it in my book. Beef barbeque is definitely blasphemy.
Pogo
July 31st, 2010
5:21 pm
One would think that after 9/11 the Muslims would be a little bit understanding when the American people object to their building a mosque near the World Trade Center site. I mean, if one wants to worship, why can’t they do it in the middle of a field somewhere or in a garbage dump for that matter? I have never believed in all the “trappings” and “ceremony” that go along with organized religion. My view is, any higher power worth believing in doesn’t give a dee-diddly-damn about how ornate and big your building is or where it is located. I don’t trust any fundamentalist whether it be political or religious. If you can’t see, in your heart of hearts what is plainly wrong because your judgement is clouded by your political or religious beliefs, then you are a fundamentalist. Religion and politics are really very closely related.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
5:24 pm
Del
:
In reality that group of Muslims have done a lot…they’re just not getting the press…i count many of them among my colleagues and cuppa coffee, gossip over the back fence neighbors. They’re pretty much in the same spot our Southern and the Northern German Jews were in when that “horde of shtettlites” descended back in the late 19th Century–”they’re ‘ours,’ all right, and we can’t deny them, but L-rd, they’re a lot of trouble and an embarassment!”
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:27 pm
“I never couched it in the context of a constitutional argument. I’ve simply been saying, it’s understandable that people, Gingrich being one to question the source of funding for the project, the projects name “Cordoba”, which is inflammable, it’s location only two blocks away from ground zero as well as the feelings of those who’ve lost loved ones in that horrific act of terrorism committed in the name of Islam.”
Del–I appreciate that clarification. Initially, I felt the same way, but reconsidered by thinking that perhaps some of the “good” Muslims wanted to erect the learning center not as an affront to those offended, but as a path toward reconciliation, in the same way that Maynard Jackson made it a point to visit a redneck bar in Marietta back in the day which featured racist songs on their jukebox. Just my opinion, of course, and I can understand how others may feel differently. Either way, the Constitution shouldn’t be abridged due to sensitivities either way or we all lose.
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
5:27 pm
josef
I think that was HD with the Anne Coulter post. I don’t really give a flying rat’s ass about her. She’s just another in the long line of talkers who try to make themselves more important than they really are. That’s why they get paid so much. Entertainers worthy of their craft of entertaining people should get compensated well. One day people will realize that unless they hold office and are capable of making decisions, they are nothing more than paid entertainment anyway.
popeye
July 31st, 2010
5:29 pm
“that’s why I like Jon Stewart and Colbert so much…they are entertainers, but have a lot more of substance to say about the issues of the day”
Great observation….These guys are not only funny, but have so much substance in their commentary and views…it makes the rest of them seem almost pathetic in their daily rants.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
5:31 pm
Josef,
I wish you did not sound so liberal. So other Americans should “assimilate first and then Muslims after a couple more hundreds of year have passed? That the French are evil because they too have a problem with illegals and think French citizenship is worth preserving? You failed to mention they are fighting terrorists in North Africa with help from no one. And the Swiss, have you ever heard of historical preservation? Do you think history is worth preserving?
Then the kindly iman who wants us to remember that muslims lost a few people on 9/11. As compared to how many thousands of other Americans? I think the Iman should move his mosque plans with great empathy for the thousands of Americans who still visit the death site of those they loved. They do not need to be reminded nearby of the faith of those who killed their loved ones. Is that hard to understand?
We all want to be fair but being blind with it will surely not enhance this country. We are already in the financial ditch. No need to go all the way.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
5:32 pm
SoCo
It was Hillbilly @ 4:47…I would apologize, but there’s a compliment to you both in getting y’all mixed up!
Del
July 31st, 2010
5:36 pm
josef,
They should demand press coverage and be loud in condemnation of those who would commit acts of terror on innocent people in the name of Allah and Islam. I don’t hear them and until such time as they really step forward many, myself included will continue to doubt their sincerity. The onus is on them to remove that doubt. Well it’s time to get steaks ready for the grill along with a cold beer. Bought some Blue Moon a Belgian beer. Pretty good.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:38 pm
“They do not need to be reminded nearby of the faith of those who killed their loved ones.’
You don’t believe in reconciliation through education, Dusty? We usually fear most that which we understand the least.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:43 pm
“Aahhh, Bruno runs his victory lap totally void of the knowledge that he is the one taking the Bible literally, not me.”
Then, can I assume that you don’t believe in an afterlife? Maybe just my take on things, but getting that ticket punched for the afterlife seems to be the main motivation for most church-goers that I meet. Being a kind, loving, non-judgmental person seems to be a little further down the list.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
5:43 pm
Dusty
It is NOT just the illegals that Sarkozy and company are targeting…I posted you the official comunique from the Lysee…
The Muslims lost over 300 in 9/11, including first responders, that’s about 10% of the victims…that’s NOT a few…
I don’t put a couple of hundred years on it. The Shtettlites did it in around 50 years, the Catholics took a little longer, the Sikhs and Hindus have done it in one generation…each group has it’s own time frame…but it takes time…we have a very similar problem down here with trying to assimilate our immigrants from Up North…it can be done, but it takes time…and tolerance…
So? The French have been involved in counter terrrorism for a long time now…the “declaration of war” is a pr stunt, in my opinion…their intelligence and prosecution has been thorough and competent…I am not faulting them there…and yes, they are getting help in North Africa. from everbody involved in the offensive–the Mossaad to their own Muslim citizens–they’re not acting alone any more than are the Germans, British, Israelis, Jordanians, Turks, Russians, etc.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
5:44 pm
“I would apologize, but there’s a compliment to you both in getting y’all mixed up!”
Easy to do, josef, since they look so much alike.
Have a great evening, all.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
5:45 pm
DEL
They DO speak up…the media just doesn’t hear them..it isn’t sensational enough…
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
5:45 pm
AmVet, etc…
Have you not heard? Coulter is passe’. As far as I know, she is never mentioned anywhere I go. Just here at grand liberal headquarters with old fogies like AmVet..
Now Palin, that’s a different story. Liberals jumped from Bush to Palin…”A day without Palin is like day without purpose”. Envy is such a pathetic thing to watch.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
5:47 pm
Jay:
I thought you had decided not to converse with me anymore on this subject but since you addressed me anyway here are a couple of points about this wonderful Imam you mentioned:
1) Based on what “you” say he has said, Radical Islam would be very upset with him as they are with any Muslims who don’t toe the line. Therefore, it’s a ruse. I’m betting the place will be full of FBI informants wherever it is built.
2) If he was also as concerned with turning over a “new” Muslim leaf as you say, then he would not be pusing the Mosque at that location which is upseting so many family member of 9/11.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
5:48 pm
getalife @ 2:29 pm
“Scout, Did you know there is a reality show to choose a new leader for a mosque in Malaysia?
It is a hit and a first for Islam. Change.”
………. and I wonder how much security they have to have agains Islamic terrorists to pull that off?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
5:51 pm
AmVet: “Scout, it’s a bit of a drive, but I found a “church” right up your alley!”
Burning the Koran, burning American flags ……….. I thought you liberals were all into that?
The difference is, that church has taken a stand and is burning the Koran.
In Afghanisatan and many other places, Islam would be taking a stand and burning churches (except they a not allowed) and beheading infidels.
That’s the difference in the two and it’s a profound one.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
5:53 pm
Jay and Liberals, et al:
Would like your thoughts on this instead of personal attacks against another poster…………..
This is what happens to government in an Islamic country.
Is this what you liberals really want for you great grandchildren ?
1) PAKISTAN
“Article 295 of the Pakistani Penal Code, clearly defines what it considers to be “blasphemy.” According to its provisions, anyone who “by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the name of the Prophet [of Islam] (. . .) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life.” In addition, any individual who willfully defiles or desecrates the Qur’an may be imprisoned for life.”
2) IRAQ
“Nothing in this Constitution shall violate the tenets of Islam”
Over 4,000 Americans died to free them and we allowed that in their Constitution. Are we “eat up with the dumbs” or what ?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
5:54 pm
josef:
Do you realize that every Muslim in the U.S. military is viewed with deep suspicion and watched constantly by their peer because so many of them have “broken bad” ?
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
5:56 pm
josef
It is indeed a compliment.
We all want to be fair but being blind with it will surely not enhance this country.
Isn’t that the meaning behind judging a man by his character instead of the color of his skin? If we force Americans to give up freedoms granted by the Constitution, the jihadist win. It does not matter who’s losing the freedom. If it is the American way of life they despise, what better way to make a statement than to uphold those same American ways for the American Muslim community?
David
July 31st, 2010
6:01 pm
Cordoba was the birthplace of Maimonides. Why is naming it Cordoba House offensive?
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
6:01 pm
Josef,
Some of your connections on the Roma seemed to be from the Roma who wished to stay in France even though they were not citizens. Do you think France should have open borders?. Did you not notice that the French were upset because a 78 year old French aid worker was murdered in Mali after being held for months? Give the French a little credit. They care when someone murders their citizens. I am aware that NATO is fighting in the MIddle East but haven’t heard about them in North Africa. If Moussad is helping the French,, I doubt they have announced their output to anybody.. .
As to assimilation..did all those faiths you mentioned who have assimilated in the USA do it with a historical attack on this country? No they did not. That set back muslim assimilation many many years. By the way, if you add all Americans including all 9/11 responders you would have less than 10%. I was basing my thoughts on the number killed in the attack itself, not including the responders.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
6:02 pm
Southern Comfort :
Because the weakness of democracy is that it allows for its own “peaceful” destruction.
Muslims will use it to destroy the very thing you cherish. Are you not watching Europe? We are only about 20 years behind.
This is not for me …………. it’s for my great-grandchildren.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
6:02 pm
OF COURSE, you do not mention her, Dusty! You tolerate her bigotry in quiet acceptance.
If she is so passe why not ask those 9/11 widows if what she said didn’t hurt them terribly? To this day.
Otherwise you would speak out against her evilness rather than giving her a free pass just because she is a fellow Republican.
So feign ignorance as if this was all ancient news, but she is still very much a hateful bigot in the forefront:
March 24th 2010 – Ann Coulter’s tasteless comment came after previously she told a gathering that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed on airplanes and should take “flying carpets.”
The camel quip came when Muslim student Fatima Al-Dhaher challenged Coulter on the remark – and told her she didn’t have a flying carpet.
“What mode of transportation?” Coulter responded. “Take a camel.”
Coulter tried to explain away her comments Tuesday as “satire.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/03/24/2010-03-24_ann_coulter_causes_firestorm_by_telling_muslim_to_take_a_camel_as_alternative_to.html
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
6:04 pm
Scout: “This is what happens to government in an Islamic country.”
Nobody is calling for this to be an Islamic Country…nor is this a Christian Country… or a Buddhist Country… it’s a country when any and all are free to practice whatever voodoo they subscribe to.
Those who in fact DO call for this to be a “Christian Country” are to be feared just as much as any others who wish to turn this into a theocracy. Many who came here before we were a nation and after we became one came because of religious persecution… they came here so they COULD in fact practice their religion/voodoo worship freely. That is their right to do so…you’re free to practice your own religion…yet you fail to see how it’s YOU who wish that all others residing here subscribe to your religion. Wanting those who come here to our shores to read write English is one thing… wanting them to adapt to your beliefs is another. Personally…I believe you wish/want all that reside here to do what I just said…”adapt” to your beliefs. A Muslim has EVERY RIGHT that you have to practice their religion freely in our United States.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
6:05 pm
Scout, am I to infer that you approve of those Christian hatemongers burning the Koran?
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
6:05 pm
Scout
Well, we’ve got at least one liberal book burner I know of here abouts…
But, never forget
“Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too.
From Heinrich Heine’s play “Almansor.” a reference to the burning of the Quran during the Spanish Inquisition…
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
6:13 pm
DUSTY
The 300 included both those in the Twin Towers at the time and those who responded…300 in all out of a total of some 3000…10%
And no. he targeted ROMA and made no distinction in his comunique between those Roma of French nationality–many with families in France going back to the 1400s and many whose parents and grandparents were deported by the Vichy authorities to Auschwitz and gassed…
“Muslims” did not attack the United States any more than the Jews killed the Christ! Be reasonable…
And I DO give the French credit…that is the point I am trying to make…their efforts are fundamental to this whole counter…what they are doing elsewhere as a government-in-office is something else…it is Sarkozy and company I am concerned about, not the French nation or the French people..
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
6:21 pm
David
Are you a fellow Maimonidean? I thought naming it Cordoba was rather appropriate myself…a time and a place when the three Abrahamic faiths, for a brief moment, looked as if they just might get their sh*t together!
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
6:24 pm
Scout
I’m not so quick as everyone else to hit the panic button. The United States is not Europe. What happens in Europe is due to the actions/inactions of Europeans. That has little bearing on the actions of US citizens. We’ve gotten so far away from what this country stands for that I don’t think people take that into account with the actions and positions people have now.
I refuse to allow terrorist to cause me to curtail any American’s rights for anything. Our Constitutionally granted rights is what makes us Americans. If we don’t uphold those rights, we’re no longer America. Like you, I took an oath to defend the Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. I consider anyone who actively pursues to deny any American their rights as a domestic enemy. Would you not consider the same?
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
6:25 pm
Dear AmVet
What an imagination! I don’t listen to Coulter because I have no interest in what she says.
You listen to her closely so you can conjure up some slurs on Republicans. Or do you keep a reference slur file ready for your every day blogging?
As to your quotes to widows of the 9/11, I think they are much more hurt over having other Americans insist on a Muslim mosque just down the street from where Muslims killed their love ones. Now that hurts!
The camel and the flying carpet!! Hey, that’s pretty good. The student should have laughed. Like you, he probably had no sense of humor.
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
Priceless:
You could always use a stethoscope on yourself and skip the typing.
I’m not among your friends who wanna come in here day after day to argue the tenets of of Christianity. I find it ironic, that those on the left wanna tell Christians how we should improve upon our religion, but have little to no advice for the followers of Islam.
I’ve got Muslim friends who claim Islam as their faith, but don’t practice. Many leftists here count themselves among the Christian faith but aren’t practicing their faith. Then there are Christians here who do practice in attendance, bringing positive results to not only our lives but the lives of others. You’re free to talk about it or act upon it…I really don’t care.
josef:
liberals here on the blog have been among the strongest supporters of banning the burqa, have been strangely silent on the Swiss ban of the minaret and have had nothing to say about Sarkozy and company’s recent actions…
I have found among leftists, that to be far removed from the realities, is the place, in which they derive their comfort. I also noticed that none of them acknowledge Bush’s compassion and Obama’s lack of compassion for the refugees mentioned in my 3:46. Probably because it means more for them.
Jay
July 31st, 2010
6:31 pm
Amen, SoCo.
Excellent. I don’t know you, but if I did, I’d be proud to say I know you.
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:33 pm
…and I like to add…
I’d need more fingers and toes to count the number of times leftists have said we’d all be better off without ANY religions, but now…and only now do they take the side of one over the other.
First they’re out then they’re in. I guess it all depends on their cause du jour.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
6:35 pm
Catching up….
Josef, Scout, Jay,
Can we truly Americanize a religion? I recall that back during the Kennedy-Nixon contest, a number of Americans worried over whether a US President would be a subject of the Pope. That was ludicrous, of course. Catholics in the US have their penchants. Not all go preaching anti-abortion sentiments, but they are still Catholics, Roman Catholics. And as far as religion is concerned, there is no independence from Doctrine in the American Catholic churches for it is all THE Church.
Jay
July 31st, 2010
6:38 pm
And Scout:
“Because the weakness of democracy is that it allows for its own “peaceful” destruction.
Muslims will use it to destroy the very thing you cherish. Are you not watching Europe? We are only about 20 years behind.”
That’s bull. But you know what? I would much prefer that our democracy be destroyed by outsiders than to acquiese in its willful suicide by we Americans, which is what would happen if we were to take your counsel. Unlike you, I’m not going to let fear scare me into abandoning what makes this country great.
Nope. If we go down, I want us to go down fighting for the principles of this country. You and the ADL can go ahead and surrender if you wish. The rest of us will fight for what is right.
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:39 pm
That should have been I’d, not to be confused with Freud’s id which falls short of the egoists and super egoists.
josef nix
July 31st, 2010
6:39 pm
@@
at 6:26
You make an interesting point. Remember, I do make a distinction between liberal and progressive. Liberals do tend to view “issues” in the abstract, and it is why I take a liberal stance. The progressives, and their conservative counterparts, are, for lack of a better word, missionaries who have decided that they now have all the answers in concrete terms and that’s that…convert or die and be d*mned.
@@
July 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
Gee, jay….the mere possibility of global warming scares you.
Doggone/GA
July 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
“You and the ADL can go ahead and surrender if you wish. The rest of us will fight for what is right”
AMEN!
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
Dusty said The camel and the flying carpet!! Hey, that’s pretty good. The student should have laughed. Like you, he probably had no sense of humor.
If you have been talking about the incident in Canada, Coulter was speaking at a university. The victim of Coulter’s remark was a young muslim woman. That was no joke, Dusty. It was an insensitive knee-jerk remark response at best, but in the context of the whole Coulter persona, I say it was blatant racism. When you are the victim of racism, you do not laugh. It is only the perpetrator and those of like mind that would laugh.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 31st, 2010
6:47 pm
Well, me and my buddy Jim Earl and my other buddy Joe Bill talked about all this and come with a idea. Why don’t the Holiness churches get together and just take the property off of the
TowelheadsMuslims hands. They can build anywhere they want to, maybe in Alaska or the Arizona desert if it’s close to Sheriff Joe.We need a good Christian church near the World Trade Center. If the Holiness churches don’t have the money, I reckon the Baptists would do.
Anyway, it’s just a idea to try and solve the problem in a Christian way.