ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause
The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.
Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.
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883 comments Add your comment
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:04 pm
Since you seem to be a little ignorant of how the OT and NT together form a unified document, Reporter, I’ve found a link which explains it a little more clearly to you:
http://reformed-theology.org/ice/newslet/be/be.05.79.htm
From the link:
Jesus affirmed with solemn authority that not even the least commandment of the entire Old Testament was to be taught as without binding validity today (Matt. 5:19), for according to his perspective “Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:35). Accordingly Christ reaffirmed elements of the decalogue, for example “Thou shalt not kill” (Matt. 19:18). He also cited as morally obligatory, aspects of the Old Testament case law: for instance, “Thou shalt not defraud” (Mark 10:19), and “Thou shalt not test the Lord thy God” (Matt. 4:7). He even cited with approval the penal code of the Old Testament with respect to incorrigible delinquents (Matt. 15:4). He expected the weightier matters of the law to be observed without leaving the minor details undone (Luke 11:42). He was concerned that His own behavior be correctly seen as in accord with God’s law (Mark 2:25-28), and He directed others to live by the law’s regulations (Mark 1:44; 10:1719). None of this could make sense except on the obvious assumption that all of the Old Testament law continues to be an authoritative standard of morality in the New Testament era. Because that law is indeed our standard of ethics, Christ the Lord will one day judge all men who commit lawless deeds (Matt. 7:23; 13:41).
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
12:05 pm
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nyers_wage_jihad_vs_wtc_mosque_UgJiOBYEhrSOw4Q6hpvbQL
Normal
It was the Community board that voted that way. I don’t know if that’s their version of a zoning commission or not.
RW-(the original)
July 31st, 2010
12:05 pm
Not a mosque story, please ignore
Back in 1996 (when fanny packs were still cool, in some circles) it was time to get tough on immigration, and an interesting little law was passed. Congress deemed it appropriate for state and local law enforcement to enforce immigration law. In the inscrutable manners of Washington (where all legislation seems to be named with insufferably cute acronyms or indecipherable legislative codes that read like security passwords), this law came to be known as 287g.
BADA BING
July 31st, 2010
12:05 pm
I will agree with obama that we are a nation of mongrels. Sofia Vergara, Halle Berry, Salma Hayek……call me and let the mongrelizing begin !!
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
12:07 pm
The ADL had it stuck to its forte, anti-defamation, would have had some credence. However, when it says, “This is not about rights; it is about what is right”, they’re wrong.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:07 pm
BB…still blowing off the question…. (okay attack as you will)… Mr. “Independent” votes only for those with an “R”…I mean if he/she actually votes at all…
Bruno: “Conservatism = following the Constitution.”
Damn…I missed that part in the dictionary! Thanks!
WOW did that ever open up a HUGE hole… (perhaps the SAME hole Conservative created recently that nearly sunk our ship)….
Conservatism following our Constitution: Start a war (maybe two)…lower taxes while doing so and not have a plan in place to pay for those wars)… yup… I recall reading that in our Constitution… it was right under where I read that Christians founded our nation and get to “profit” by owning, raping and beating the piss out of slaves….
Paulo977
July 31st, 2010
12:09 pm
ADL has lost its INTEGRITY!!
One of the very few voices left in the pursuit of human rights ,civil rights, justice and freedom of religion has just sold out to the forces of bigotry!In opposing the building of a mosque somewhere in the vicinity of ground zero it has used some garbled version of “logic” to cloak unadulterated HATE for Islam…What is ” the healing process”????
Our hate mongers here in Metro Atlanta , specifically , must feel heartened by the reversal of the the ADL’S stance .
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:10 pm
“Since you seem to be a little ignorant of how the OT and NT together form a unified document, Reporter, I’ve found a link which explains it a little more clearly to you:”
let me ask…just WHO was it that wrote both of those? Humans? Too bad they never profited from it….oops! Their “church” and it’s cults leaders did (and continue to do so)…
NT… yup… simply more “human penned” scribbles made to fix the “mistakes” in the first human penned scribble….
If that’s not true…PLEASE tell me the author/authors of the NT.
BADA BING
July 31st, 2010
12:11 pm
Saul…. who died and made you moderator? Nobody on this blog has to answer to you……chill.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:13 pm
“Conservatism following our Constitution: Start a war (maybe two)…lower taxes while doing so and not have a plan in place to pay for those wars)… yup… I recall reading that in our Constitution…”
Saul–In case you missed it, the Constitution does in fact allow for the declaration of war and for the raising and lowering of taxes. Nothing un-Constitutional about either of those items. BTW, in case you forgot, your Democratic brothers and sisters in Congress overwhelmingly approved of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. The Democrats also overwhelmingly voted on favor of the Patriot Act–twice in fact–which I believe is clearly un-Constitutional.
Try again.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
12:14 pm
Del said You’ve got to know that this thread has gone into deep LA LA land when you have the lib’s trying to depict themselves as defenders of the Constitution… What hypocrisy. Other things to do, y’all enjoy the day.
You know you have gone into deep bias when you think that your side is the exclusive proponent of the Constitution. You know that gone into deep bias when you selectively apply the Constitution where ever it might prove convenient but other times not.
Do you support SB1070? The Constitution doesn’t.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
12:15 pm
Bruno and many others are correct.
This irrational attitude towards all Muslims is clear evidence of broad-brushed bigotry. These few indict ALL or virtually all Muslims as being murderous thugs. And even in their less hateful moments, they indict them by proxy for not standing up enough against the homicides and misanthropes and ostensibly covertly supporting the terror.
This is the very epitome of stereotypical, stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from theirs. And the very anti-thesis of the teachings of Jesus.
And as has been noted, in some ways the cons have already lost to the enemy. As they try to become more and more and more like their torturing, deadly cousins in Abraham. And occasionally let out Freudian slips as more evidence.
Secondly, they oftentimes really do have little use for the sanctity of the United States Constitution and the Rule of Law.
An Inconvenient Truth…
And Saul, you ore obviously correct. In their shamelessness to runaway (as fast as their chicken legs will carry them) from the horrific Bush legacy that they fervently supported every step of the way, the new conservatives (HA!) are becoming Tea Floggers and Independents by the droves.
Yet very strangely their ideology has not changed one iota. They are just REAL conservatives who sagely understand that they got decimated in 2006 and 2008 because they weren’t conservative enough!
Good times…
@@
July 31st, 2010
12:17 pm
SoCo:
Unless your county has implemented zoning restrictions, and sometimes, even if they have, the RLUIPA ACT (a federal statute that was passed in 2000 to provide stronger protection for religious freedom in the land-use and prison contexts) allows churches the freedom to purchase property for all sorts of uses.
Say a church decided to house convicted child molesters they plan to rehabilitate in the house next to yours (the one where you and your wife choose to raise your daughter). If you and your neighbors opposed its location, it’s likely you’d lose on the grounds that you and your county’s zoning laws place an undue burden on their religious activities.
RLUIPA prohibits zoning and landmarking laws that: (1) treat churches or other religious assemblies or institutions on less than equal terms with nonreligious institutions; (2) discriminate against any assemblies or institutions on the basis of religion or religious denomination; (3) totally exclude religious assemblies from a jurisdiction; or (4) unreasonably limit religious assemblies, institutions, or structures within a jurisdiction.
To my way of thinking, you too, have a right to raise your daughter without the burden of worrying about child molesters next door. Sure, you could move, but that, in and of itself, is an undue burden that’s given no consideration when going up against the RLUIPA.
Another added bonus, if you and the county lose in court, you pay ALL of the church’s legal expenses.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:18 pm
“NT… yup… simply more “human penned” scribbles made to fix the “mistakes” in the first human penned scribble….”
Saul–show me once where I have ever said that the Bible was anything other than a group of books written by men. You’re losing credibility fast by putting words in my mouth that I never said based upon your prejudices of the factual/moral outlook of conservatives.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
12:19 pm
Del 11:49
thank you.
Saul-in -several places.
Slavery was outlawd back in the 1800’s in the USA.. Maybe you did not hear about that.
As to unstable people making threats, you will find all kind. They come in all colors, settings and faiths. They are to be pitied as they are the unstable misfits of this world.
Popeye,
I don’t know what Sarah Palin has to do with this discussion. I also do not know everything she says. She is a fine lady of good principles and overcomes problems with a strong faith. If you think those are undesirable traits, I do not.
Bruno,
I fear you are getting all tied up in religious quandries. The Bible gives us the history of some of the world’s greatest faiths. It shows the problems, weaknesses, successes and losses.. The Old Testament also gives us the Ten Commandments which are great rules of law upon which many of today’s laws are based..
The New Testament gives us the new beginning of love and forgiveness. Christ came to die for our sins, as a ransom to give us sinners a chance at eternal life. Granted we all still sin but we can wake up each morning knowing that Christ came in great love just for us.
Now that faith is for you to discover and the Bible gives us the pathway. It is there for you to discover. I don’t doubt that you have many questions. Go ahead and ask them. I do believe that you will find that love and forgiveness is too much to lose. And I am sure you already know: not one of us is perfect..
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
12:19 pm
Saul,
Even though the so called founding fathers last tread this earth hundreds of years ago, I give them more credibility with the Constitution than I would the countless authors of the Bible.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:19 pm
Bruno…and that “slavery” thing… seems EVERYONE I ask of to “explain” it to me…well they skip over it.
Know who “opposed” the war in Iraq? Obama did. Do I agree with those who voted to authorize the war in Iraq? No…I don’t… they failed. Everyone who voted to authorize that war failed we Americans. I myself was against it before it started… and I think all who voted for it should “gladly” take the blame for the fiasco it is and has always been….
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
12:21 pm
AmVet,
Well stated.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:24 pm
theyeshaveit,
yeah…i to give them more credibility compared to the “Authors” of our Constitution… I mean…at least we know who “wrote” it…compared to the bible which was penned by those who happened to have been the ones who KNEW just how to write…and after that long game of telephone that twisted the story over many years (perhaps centuries)…what THEY wrote was just THEIR version they heard… yet the story changes over the years and new ones were penned by other humans…but the BEST PART??? IS how SOOOOO many “humans” adapt those human penned ramblings to simply” fit” what they WANT those words to mean…
ATF
July 31st, 2010
12:25 pm
Jim Jones killed his own people in the name of his faith in the Jonestown Massacre. Germany was a Christian nation during the years of the Nazis. Do we condemn Christianity? Since multiple wives are against our laws and some Mormans practice it, do we condemn all Mormans? Maybe we should not allow any Morman tabernacles to be built anywhere in the US.
Same for the attack on the World Trade Center. Just because they claimed they did this in defense of their faith doesn’t mean they did. There are millions of Muslims who would never do what the terrorists did. There are many Mormans who do not practice polygamy.
How are we going to get over this wound if we insist on institutionalizing the (mis)perception that the Muslim faith is at fault.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
12:25 pm
Brother B, one small correction.
57% of Democrats in the United States Congress voted AGAINST authorizing you-know-who to botch you-know-what in you-know-where.
The GOP voted 97.5% FOR the invasion. (Only 7 out of 263 voted no.) Only the mafia can command that kind of obedience.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:28 pm
“Do you support SB1070? The Constitution doesn’t.”
eyes–I have to challenge you on that assertion. It appears that the key provisions of the law are well-supported by both the Constitution and case law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_SB_1070
From the link:
“The U.S. and Arizona supreme courts have held that race may be considered in enforcing immigration law. In United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, the U.S. Supreme Court found: “The likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor.”[102] The Arizona Supreme Court agrees that “enforcement of immigration laws often involves a relevant consideration of ethnic factors.”[103] Both decisions say that race alone, however, is an insufficient basis to stop or arrest.”
and
“In Gonzales v. City of Peoria (9th Cir. 1983),[164] the Court held that the Immigration and Naturalization Act precludes local enforcement of the Act’s civil provisions but does not preclude local enforcement of the Act’s criminal provisions. The U.S. Attorney General may enter into a written agreement with a state or local government agency, under which that agency’s employees perform the function of an immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of aliens in the United States;[165] however, such an agreement is not required for the agency’s employees to perform those functions.[166]”
Of course, the above rulings may be overturned based upon new interpretations.
BADA BING
July 31st, 2010
12:30 pm
RE: obama’s mongrel comment on ‘The View’. I don’t think that obama meant that word litter-ally, and I think he deserves a pat on the head for starting a conversation about Race. What may oc-cur now is a heeling process. I think that we should all ’sit’ down together and use this as a precautionary tail about coming together. At leash he was honest about it.
Normal
July 31st, 2010
12:30 pm
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:07 pm
Saul,
I think you are beating that one to death. Blaming Christians for that today is a wrong as blaming women today because Eve ate the Apple (BTW, is a naked woman offered me me an apple…damn right, I’d eat it. So blame Adam too).
Slavery had been a way of life for centuries at that time and the perspective of life versus chattel was skewed. This is the basis of race prejudice. You always made slaves of the defeated survivors of your enemy. Even in the South, slavery was an economic problem and at the time slaves were property and that was upheld by the Dred Scot Supreme Court ruling.
Not saying that slavery was right but just saying it was the way it was back then and the attitudes of the day was the same too…even in church.
It doesn’t matter today. there is no slavery here anymore (not counting the company store mentality of today’s corporations…
)
There is a great story about R. E. Lee right after the war. He was at his Episcopal church one Sunday waiting to get communion. A black man went up to the alter to receive the “blood and the body”. He was ignored. Bobby Lee went up and knelt beside him, making the Rector acknowledge the black man. Don’t really know if it’s true, but I’d like it to be…
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
12:30 pm
Saul,
Also, the Bible is only a comparatively small part of what was written about Christ. The Gnostics pitched in with their perspective. The Tetra Biblos included FOUR books. The Catholics and the Protestants cannot agree what constitutes aprocrypha. We have a Supreme Court to determine what is constitutional and what is not. But who or what determined what the “word of God” is?
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:32 pm
Dusty…thanks for replying to what I actually ASKED… (so I’ll rephrase it and make it simpler for you): If this nation was founded upon CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES… It would mean the CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES allow for SLAVERY (along with the beatings, rapings, and killing of slaves).
Not in the 1800’s…but when our nation was FOUNDED.
So I ask…did Jefferson and Washington go to hell for having slaves?
Priceless
July 31st, 2010
12:33 pm
Only the mafia can command that kind of obedience
I object. Only the Republicans command that kind of obedience.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:34 pm
“But who or what determined what the “word of God” is?”
Do we include the GREEK gods as well? I mean… which ones?
KnowwhatI’msaying?
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:37 pm
Normal…I get it…and I know what you’re saying…I’m just saying (what started with those condemning Muslims and Jihad).. that Christians too have treated other “humans” like crap…killed, tortured, raped them…etc… That’s what I started talking about with regards to this thread: That those who say that only “Muslims” kill, rape, stone, etc…should take a look back in their own religion..and many who followed the bible…and who too killed, raped, and murdered… all because they thought it was “OKAY” to do so…(according to their bible/laws)…
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:38 pm
“The New Testament gives us the new beginning of love and forgiveness. Christ came to die for our sins, as a ransom to give us sinners a chance at eternal life. Granted we all still sin but we can wake up each morning knowing that Christ came in great love just for us.”
Dusty–I am in full support of loving and forgiving, but I don’t need a “dusty” document to give me permission to do so or to show me how to do it. If the Bible provides the ultimate guide for you to live a better life, then I am in full support of that. Just don’t claim any sort of exclusivity on it.
Having said that, if you are going to declare yourself an adherent to the Bible/Christianity, then you have to accept the document as a whole. The passages I quoted above regarding the death penalty for what we today would consider minor offenses still stand today according to the Bible. If you personally decide to pick and choose which of the Laws to follow, then you need to be cautious in declaring yourself a Christian.
In my personal experience, the most loving group of folks I have met are all of the Bahai faith.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
It doesn’t matter today. there is no slavery here anymore (not counting the company store mentality of today’s corporations…
)
Was thinking Normal… what about the “white christian CEO’s” who have shops set up in far away lands…where people work 18 hours a day… or even those PESKY “Illegals” who people hire and pay crap wages to and get abused by CEO’s… I thin you can agree that slavery still exists… just go look at the Chicken “factories” in Gainesville, GA…. mostly illegal immigrants working in their “factories”… getting paid next to nothing… and owned by WHO? White Christians… the very same ones who “hire” them in the first place…
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
“But who or what determined what the “word of God” is?”
That would be the Council of Nicaea, eyes.
Gotta run, guys. As a small twist of faith, one of my Muslim friends is coming over to my house in a few minutes.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:46 pm
Normal…oops! Always typing to fast for my own good!
What I typed: : “or even those PESKY “Illegals” who people hire and pay crap wages to and get abused by CEO’s…”
Holy ($^#*##(#()!!!!! lol!
I’ll assume you know what I meant!
Sheesh!
I WIN worst typing award for today! I mean…just TRY and beat that anyone!
ACK!
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
12:46 pm
“The GOP voted 97.5% FOR the invasion. (Only 7 out of 263 voted no.) Only the mafia can command that kind of obedience.”
Am–saw your correction on the invasion vote.
BTW, do you have any stats on the % of Dems who have voted along with Pelosi and Reed on health care reform, banking reform, etc. The mafia apparently accepts members of both political parties.
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
12:46 pm
I am probably going to regret jumping into y’all’s religious debate, but just to stire the puddin’ a little (as Josef would say)…
At the very dawn of religion, God was a woman. Do you remember?
In prehistoric and early historic periods of human development, religions existed in which people revered their supreme creator as female. The Great Goddess — the Divine Ancestress — had been worshiped from the beginnings of the Neolithic periods of 7000 BC until the closing of the last Goddess temples, about AD 500. Some authorities would extend Goddess worship as far into the past as the Upper Paleolithic Age of about 25,000 BC. Yet events of the Bible, which we are generally taught to think of as taking place “in the beginning of time,” actually occurred in historic periods. Abraham, first prophet of the Hebrew-Christian god Yahweh, more familiarly known as Jehovah, is believed by most Bible scholars to have lived no earlier than 1800 BC and possibly as late as 1550 BC.
It has been archaeologically confirmed that the earliest law, government, medicine, agriculture, architecture, metallurgy, wheeled vehicles, ceramics, textiles and written languages were initially developed in societies that worshiped the Goddess.
Why do so many people educated in this century think of classical Greece as the first major culture when written language was in use and great cities were built at least 25 centuries before that time?
Most significant is the realization that for thousands of years both religions existed simultaneously–among closely neighboring peoples. Archaeological, mythological and historical evidence all reveal that the female religion, far from naturally fading away, was the victim of centuries of continual persecution and suppression by the advocates of the newer religions which held male deities as supreme. And from these new religions came the creation myth of Adam and Eve and the tale of the loss of Paradise.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
12:50 pm
Wet: “And from these new religions came the creation myth of Adam and Eve and the tale of the loss of Paradise.”
Yups…history tells us that… no need to fear what you wrote… it’s the TRUTH. Some people HATE the truth…it goes against all they were brainwashed with… they simply can’t separate “fact” from “fiction” when presented with it… well at least when it has to do with their own human penned “version” of the story of our histories “gods”….
Normal
July 31st, 2010
12:53 pm
What you say is why my favorite hymn is this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM0Z75KEd_o&feature=related
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
12:56 pm
There is a great story about R. E. Lee right after the war. He was at his Episcopal church one Sunday waiting to get communion. A black man went up to the alter to receive the “blood and the body”. He was ignored. Bobby Lee went up and knelt beside him, making the Rector acknowledge the black man. Don’t really know if it’s true, but I’d like it to be…
That story is true.
just go look at the Chicken “factories” in Gainesville, GA
And before they were able to hire illegals to work in chicken plants, they treated their white and black workers the same way. The fact that the owners are of one religion or another has nothing to do with it.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:01 pm
Normal…yes…my own as well.
Imagine if if human created “borders” did not exist… sad that we “humans” are not free to travel and/or settle upon any land we choose to… For those who want less “government involvement” in their lives… well why are they they ones who shout loudest when it comes to wanting our government to “restrict” who can live here and just how/what they need to do to simply be human… to be of free will to make their home “anywhere” they choose to do so…. that goes for me as well…
Why as a human do I need to “bow down” to a government if I want to live in some human created borders? Why am I not FREE to choose to move about this planet freely?
Sad that SOOO many don’t see the “simplicity” in that…in being a “human first”..and a “nationality or religion” second to being human….
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:02 pm
“And before they were able to hire illegals to work in chicken plants, they treated their white and black workers the same way. The fact that the owners are of one religion or another has nothing to do with it.”
Actually…it has EVERYTHING to do with it… it’s WHITE CHRISTIANS who treat other “humans” like crap.
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
1:03 pm
Saul – Don’t misunderstand me. I believe that mankind is a three-fold being, needing physical, mental and spiritual to be complete. But I think that the Bible is a retelling of much older stories.
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
1:03 pm
Normal, here’s one of my favorite hymns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo
Did you make disease and the diamond blue
Did you make man kind after we made you?
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
1:05 pm
Bruno,
Talk to you later re Arizona and the Constitution, Bahai faith, and Council of Nicaea. I have some Japanese guests coming over in ten minutes. My guess is that they are Buddhists.
Paulo977
July 31st, 2010
1:05 pm
Thank you Normal@12:53pm… YUP!
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:06 pm
“Actually…it has EVERYTHING to do with it… it’s WHITE CHRISTIANS who treat other “humans” like crap.”
I’ll rephrase that because it’s not ALL WHITE CHRISTIANS doing so…just the ones who own and manage those chicken plants… sorry for the typo…
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
1:08 pm
Actually, I like this hymn (an actual hymn) a lot more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtZUM0JhLvc
(a lot more hopeful than that barrelfull of cynicism from XTC.)
Mick
July 31st, 2010
1:08 pm
**You’ve got to know that this thread has gone into deep LA LA land when you have the lib’s trying to depict themselves as defenders of the Constitution… What hypocrisy.
del@11:47
What makes conservatives think that they OWN the constitution? A statement like that shows complete ignorance beyond hypocricy.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
1:10 pm
Back for a minute, guys–The Muslim appointment was delayed.
Hillbilly Deluxe–Glad to see you on board. For what it’s worth, I believe you out of all the JB bloggers have displayed the true spirit of Christianity during my tenure here. Of course, I’m not really sure if my endorsement is one you would seek out, me being the rabble-rousing heathen that I am. On the other end of the spectrum I place Reporter for his constant put-downs of anyone who doesn’t share his narrow, hypocritical view of the world.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:10 pm
Wet wiccan : “Saul – Don’t misunderstand me. I believe that mankind is a three-fold being, needing physical, mental and spiritual to be complete. But I think that the Bible is a retelling of much older stories.”
I understand… but many and most don’t know that the story of “Jesus” and the “Virgin Mother” was already being told for nearly a thousand years…i mean…they even used the same birth date…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYK5kd6DRds
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
1:12 pm
wet wiccam,
Interesting read. I came upon an old college paper I wrote back in the day. The title was something like the “Two Mary Dichotomy” in which I juxtaposed the so called mother of God with Mary of Magdalen. For centuries have both revered and disdained women. But I think that if God were a woman, she would have given that certain time of the month to men, not women.
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
1:12 pm
Bruno,
My Buddhists are still coming.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
1:12 pm
Well, Saul,
I can’t tell you who went to heaven or hell. Us Christians have the faith and that is what sustains us. But for me to judge in all certainty who goes where, I will have to leave that up to God. OK??
Dear Bruno Blogger,,
I’m sorry if my ID “Dusty” offends you. All you have to do is skip over my posts.. You see, I’m liable to express my opinion and that gets you all upset. Enjoy the Bahai group. That might be the answer for which you seek. So long….
theyeshaveit
July 31st, 2010
1:14 pm
wet wiccam,
The OT is fraught with stories that resemble those in literature of the time.
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
1:16 pm
eyes – But I think that if God were a woman, she would have given that certain time of the month to men, not women.
LOL True dat!!
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:17 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYK5kd6DRds
BTW>….all Christians…go ahead and refute this… seems to me your “story” was well in the making for a thousand years or so…. watch all of it… yet I’m sure you’ll all say it’s BS… yet offer NO PROOF to tell us how YOUR story penned by humans is real…and the “other” stories penned by humans are fake…
Now don’t forget to write a check…your pastor needs a new Lexus… his has 25K on it already and he’s been seen at the dealership checking out the 2011 model.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:18 pm
eyes – But I think that if God were a woman, she would have given that certain time of the month to men, not women.
LOL True dat!!
Hold on you two..who says MEN don’t have to deal with that as well!
I mean SOME of us don’t care…yet SOME think it’s a sin! UGH!
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
1:19 pm
Of course, I’m not really sure if my endorsement is one you would seek out, me being the rabble-rousing heathen that I am.
Bruno, FWIW I’ve informed Mr. Deluxe that I frequently wear a “WWHDD?” bracelet while posting here. It’s been known to keep me from posting something truly hateful and stupid, now and again.
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
1:19 pm
“At the very dawn of religion, God was a woman.”
wet wiccan–Thanks for the informative passage above. I have made a fairy strong effort to study ancient religions, and yes, most Biblical stories have an antecedent.
Per your “God is a woman” statement, a lot of modern Christians don’t realize that in the original Biblical texts, many, many names were given to God, e.g. El, Elohim, and Jehovah. In particular, El-shaddai translates as “many-breasted one’, which suggests a feminine connotation. Unfortunately, all of the English versions of the original texts translate all of these magnificent names into either “God” or “Lord”.
Which is why I’m always somewhat put-off by self-identified Christians who think they know a lot about the Bible. Just my ego talking here, but I believe I’ve put more research into understanding the Bible than 80-90% of the fakers.
P.S. If I get struck down by lightning in the next ten minutes, I probably deserved it for my arrogance.
Love to all…….Later gators.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 31st, 2010
1:20 pm
Bruno
I don’t judge you or anybody else. It’s not my job to judge people and in God’s eyes, I’m no better than anybody else nor are they any better than me. I do appreciate the fact that you’ve always treated me with respect.
Lee
July 31st, 2010
1:20 pm
Jay, you conveniently omitted the ADL is really the JEWISH Anit-Defamation League. For years, they have waged war against the Christian principals on which this country was founded. No surprise that they are going after the Muslims now.
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:22 pm
SO Dusty thinks Slavery and beating of men, woman and rapping of children was OKAY in her eyes…..and that “her” version of god sorted it out… cool! Good to know that our founding fathers broke your “commandments” and went to hell (maybe?)…I mean..what does THAT say about our Country and the founding of it?
Dusty…you you STILL did not answer…so I’ll rephrase it: Was it OKAY for our founding fathers of the “Christian Nation” to “OWN” slaves? To beat them? To have sex with them? To kill them if they did not obey?
3 questions there above. Feel free to answer them….
Bruno
July 31st, 2010
1:23 pm
“I’m sorry if my ID “Dusty” offends you. All you have to do is skip over my posts.. You see, I’m liable to express my opinion and that gets you all upset.”
Not a bit, Dusty. I enjoy reading your posts and value your opinion. If I throw the you-know-what back at you, it doesn’t mean that I don’t like you or what you have to say. Ultimately, I love everyone, because I firmly believe that we are all in the same boat, so to speak. I apologize if I have implied otherwise.
Talk to you later.
Loveable Adolf
July 31st, 2010
1:27 pm
Jay, you conveniently omitted the ADL is really the JEWISH Anit-Defamation League.
Ja, ziss is korrect. (eggzept for ze bad spelling.) Zeeze JOOZ control ze world!
Saul Good
July 31st, 2010
1:27 pm
Lee said: “Christian principals on which this country was founded.”
ah….so maybe LEE here will answer the questions I seek an answer for!
Lee?
Was it OKAY that those “Christian Principles” that “founded” our nation (which you mentioned) allowed for Slaves? That Washington and Jefferson owned slaves? That they beat (or had others do it for them with their knowledge) and had sex with them?
Tell me about those “christian principles” on which this country was founded….
wet wiccan
July 31st, 2010
1:27 pm
Oh, and Saul? Quit harrassing Dusty!!
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
1:28 pm
B, the HCR vote;
The bill passed in a 219-212 vote after more than a year of bitter partisan debate. *ALL* 178 Republicans opposed it, along with 34 Democrats.
Banking reform:
US House
Dems – 289 for, 27 against (91%)
GOP – 3 for, 213 against (99%) And if not for Snowe, Collins and Brown it would be 100%
Bruno, you know that I do not give the Dems a free pass for being Republican-lites whatsoever.
It is just that they usually have about 10% that have the courage to stand up their “leadership”, while for the GOP the number is almost always closer to 1%.
A subtle difference to be sure, but certainly noteworthy…
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
1:31 pm
Please remove the words US House from the above post. Those are totals for the United States Congress…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
1:31 pm
Bruno- The idiot liberals/ Islamic wannabes brought Christ the adulterous woman and asked if they could stone her to death, which was the law according to the Old Testament. Christ replied “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” The idiot liberals/ Islamic wannabes scurried away, leaving the woman, Mary, with Jesus.
1) Check it out dude, Christ was born of the flesh for the pure reason that the Old Testament law was faulty. No other reason. Never mind all of that, what is a heathen like you lecturing one of God’s children about religion anyway?
Is this like one of those deals where a moron Muslim, thinking they are smart, wants to build a mosque on the site of an Islamic atrocity?
If you want to lecture us, stick to simple things you know, like diaper filling and such.
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
1:35 pm
Has anyone asked GW Bush how he feels about turning Lower Manhattan into Mecca?
Reason I ask…I always had issues of one sort or another with the guy, but when it came to actual religious tolerance he seemed like a decent fella. See also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_8GoF9SLas&feature=related
Q: Do we all worship the same god?
Bush: I think we all do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
1:39 pm
Though some of them don’t like to remember this quote, it is one of the more compelling that describes many in the Republican right wing, “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.” ~Chairman Ann Coulter, Sept. 13, 2001
BTW, isn’t that self-appointed moniker very reminiscent of a certain sociopolitical structure that aims for a classless and stateless society with the communal ownership of property?
Southern Comfort
July 31st, 2010
1:42 pm
@@
I understand your point on the zoning issue. Personally, I’ve only fought one zoning battle in my area. There was a builder who wanted to put two 6-story buildings right next to my subdivision. The way the land is situated, I think anything over the 2nd floor would have had unobstructed views over the majority of the subdivision. The first 5 were for offices and the 6th floor of each building was designed to be penthouses.
The offices didn’t bother me as they would bring jobs other than retail to this area. I objected to the areas set aside for living. I didn’t think that was necessary with the available housing in the area.
If a church decided to move child molesters next door to me, my only concern would be how many as the houses are single family dwellings. They could move next door and be ok. If they cross the property line to do harm to my daughter, they better make sure their insurance is paid up. I’m not too big on squashing other people’s rights. Because of past incidents, I’m a big believer in 2nd chances. Part of being a Christian means that I don’t pass judgenments on people. I leave that to the big guy in the sky.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
1:42 pm
Bush is an idiot. Not only did he wrought obozo on us, he impugns the Holy Spirit. Worshipping allah will get you a front row seat in hell, not to the Almighty.
Beware of false prophets, no?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
1:47 pm
Check it out, allah tells his idiot followers to kill Jews and they will get 72 virgin chicks, the liberals are down with that, hahaha, religion, yeah OK.
mike
July 31st, 2010
1:48 pm
I love how the liberal pundits have made the cause of this mosque such a priority.
As usual, they are focused on culture war issues that are irrelevant to all but those who might live there. Both Jay and Cyndi Tucker have written on this subject that has nothing to do with Atlanta is the slightest.
Fire the AJC pundits and replace them with reporters who know or care about the local community. I can get petty comments from liberals about this irrelevant story from any number of sources. How about the AJC actually catering to its local audience instead of continuing its ideological jihad?
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
1:48 pm
If it wasn’t clear, by “turning lower Manhattan into Mecca”, I meant that we’d be doing that (in essence) by banning the “wrong” kind of religious worship from that part of the island.
Obviously I think the people who are trying to block this bit of construction are a disgusting consortium of imbeciles, charlatans, and, in the ADL’s case, apparently, jellyfish.
Tillie
July 31st, 2010
1:50 pm
Why are Tucker and Bookman advocates for a mosque built near ground zero. No one is preventing mosques in general. Will they be as extravagantly passionate when a Christian group wants to build a church?
Or is there something else going on?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
1:54 pm
standsfordingbats- Are you in your burkha today? Kinda hot peering through the ole eye slit, ain’t it?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
1:55 pm
Jay:
Cynthia’s thread has just about run this dry (you two really do need to coordinate) but I will add one more thing:
Islam’s “religious” part is just a beard for the rest ……… economic, societal, educational, legal, political and military. It is the “front” for world domination by force. Therefore it IS DIFFERENT from other “relgions” because it is DANGEROUS to democracy and freedom wherever it spreads.
Would you condone a KKK or Nazi Museum so easliy in Manhattan or anywhere else ?
They also used “religion” as a front! The KKK used (false) Chrisitanity and the Nazi’s were all into the Nordic gods (Thor, etc.) and some even (false) Christianity. Does that make them “religions” to be respected?
Many people in the KKK and the Nazi Party (along with many Westernized Muslims) were/are there becaue they were duped, pressured, fearful not to join, brainwashed, or born under that umbrella. Many of those people were/are “good” people (i.e., Senator Byrd) but we would NEVER condone their organizations.
Islam is not just a religion ……….. it is an organization with diabolical ideology.
Many posters will no doubt disagree with me but I will not be silent. I know who the main enemy of world peace is and it must be stopped in its tracks.
I will continue to do my small part.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 31st, 2010
1:57 pm
While I don’t agree with the idiocy that causes Muslim women to be covered up with burkhas, I do think that morons should be required to wear them as sort of a self stifling device, to lock in the ignorant things they say and do.
Consider it a fatwa, y’all.
Jay
July 31st, 2010
2:03 pm
Scout, your willingness to compare Islam with Nazis or the KKK precludes any further discussion, period.
And Tillie, what might that “something else” be? Care to entertain us with your conjecture?
@@
July 31st, 2010
2:05 pm
I’m always amused by the religious debates that go on here. Reminds me of the Sadducees and Pharisees questioning Jesus. Their intention was to trick him into alienating either the people or the government with his answers.
The Sadducees were priests who kept power by working with the Roman government. The Pharisees were a radical group that was very popular with the poor for their great shows of piety. Sound like left-wingers to me.
It may be wrong, but when it comes to going forth and making disciples, ain’t nobody gonna find dust gathering on my sandals. When I’m standing at the pearly gates with some of you Sadducees and Pharisees about, and St. Peter asks if I’ve sought to bring you into the fold, I’ll respond with…
“I got the impression they weren’t all that interested so….NO, I didn’t. I came into this world short of God’s Glory and I now stand before you, short of God’s Glory. But I stand as a true believer in spite of the trials and tribulations set upon me by those more worldly.”
Normal
July 31st, 2010
2:06 pm
Whiner,
It was NOT a Muslim atrocity. It was an Anti American Quasi Religious atrocity. Dude you are so blind.
getalife
July 31st, 2010
2:08 pm
It is a Constitutional freedom of religion issue. cons should be for the mosque but are never consistent with their fake principles.
The mental disorder called conservatism has them all over the place with their so called beliefs.
Frauds and very sick in the head.
Just sayin.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:13 pm
Jay:
You are correct …………. it’s worse because it’s larger and more brutal.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:16 pm
Jay:
You claim to be an “informed” person. Shame on you if you don’t read:
“The Grand Jihad” by Andrew McCarthy (federal prosecutor in the first World Trade Center bombing case).
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
2:18 pm
Oh, come on, Jay.
getalife
July 31st, 2010
2:19 pm
Scout,
Do you ever read material that does not fit your ideology?
stands for decibels
July 31st, 2010
2:22 pm
Do you ever read material that does not fit your ideology?
cue Scout’s “I read ‘Dreams from my Father’ and it’s soooo skeeery and it proves that mulatto Commie wants to enslave me!” bit he’s posted sixty thousand times.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:23 pm
Another example:
The Southern Baptist Convention is a huge denomination here in the United States. When churches (recently one in Decatur) go outside the “Faith and Message” of that denomination they are excluded and removed from the convention. Let’s say the Southern Baptist Churches in South Carolina all of a sudden (not everyone ……. just some in those churches) because committing terror in the name of “Christianity”. That “church group” would be dropped (disavowed fellowship as they say) so quick it would make your head spin.
Muslims the world over never do that and they rarely (even the Westernized ones) condemn their brethren (most of the time out of fear of retaliation). Why don’t Muslims here in the U.S. create their own “branch” of Islam (i.e., “Free Islam”) and disavow themselves from those who preach hate and engage in terror?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:24 pm
stands for decibels :
You need to keep better informed. It’s not mulatto anymore ………. he changed it to “mongrel” just this week.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:25 pm
getalife:
Sure ……… and then I decide which one is correct.
Do you?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:27 pm
getalife :
P.S. Do you think you know more about the danger or non-danger of Islam than the federal prosecutor in the first World Trade Center case who can’t even tell us about the classified information he knows about ?
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:27 pm
P.S.S.
But of course ……….. Jay does.
Scout
July 31st, 2010
2:27 pm
Out for awhile …………….
getalife
July 31st, 2010
2:29 pm
Scout,
Did you know there is a reality show to choose a new leader for a mosque in Malaysia?
It is a hit and a first for Islam.
Change.
AmVet
July 31st, 2010
2:39 pm
Scout, it’s a bit of a drive, but I found a “church” right up your alley!
(CNN) — In protest of what it calls a religion “of the devil,” a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an “International Burn a Quran Day” on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.
The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.
“We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it’s causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times,” Pastor Terry Jones told CNN’s Rick Sanchez earlier this week.
Jones wrote a book titled “Islam is of the Devil,” and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.
You must be very proud…
Priceless
July 31st, 2010
3:00 pm
Scout would have us believe that he is an informed person yet he also tries to compare a religion, Islam, with the KKK and Nazis. That is at best a sign of true ignorance and at worst… .
Del
July 31st, 2010
3:05 pm
And Joe Biden said that Iraq is a success that George Bush and Obama both share. I think Joe was one of the Dem’s who voted against the Iraq war. Democrats sure are predictable in their hypocrisy since they were taken over by the far-left.
Legend of Len Barker
July 31st, 2010
3:11 pm
It’s amazing in retrospect that what started the ADL happened in Georgia (it also influenced the revival of the KKK, but that’s a whole ‘nother story).
The ADL grew out of a fight to help Leo Frank. Frank’s supporters (rightfully) felt that anti-Semitism was one of the main reasons he didn’t get a fair shake in any of the court battles in the Mary Phagan murder case. The efforts of several prominent Jewish men across the country help Frank led to a huge backlash in the state with many an editor feeling that they were attempting to influence the matter.
For the most part, it was imagined. Several had resisted helping Frank because they didn’t want to be seen as only helping a fellow member of the Jewry. Even in a case as messed up on every level as Frank’s.
And that’s what we have here. Misguided perception about a group of individuals.
For a group who took ‘Jewish’ off their name because they wanted to expand their cause, they’re surely abandoning it.
Dusty
July 31st, 2010
3:14 pm
Saul,
Might as well get this founders= owned =slaves bit out the way.
Slaves have been around since somebody got tired of prisoners. So they sold them to somebody who needed workers. They were” property.”The Romans had slaves. The Greeks had slaves. The Egyptians had slaves. (Rember how Josef with his coat of many colors was sold to slave traders by his brothers. He became governor of Egypt.) Slaves sold in America were prisoners sold by the tribes that overcame them.in Africa. So who bought slaves in America?
The people that needed workers and had the money to buy them. Did all people have big enterprises that needed workers? NO! The majority did not. Most took care of their own places.
Was it wrong to sell or own slaves. ABSOLUTELY! In less tha one hundred years, this country abolished slavery. Today, there is still slavery in this world but not in America.
Yes, some of our founding fathers were wrong to take economic issues (slaves needed) over the issue of human freedom. Slavery was not uncommon then.
Should we condemn our forefathers for their “siins”? NO. Why? Because we are not perfect ourselves and they are gone. Slavery we condemn for all times..
Saul, if you eat that chicken cleaned by what you call “slave labor”, or buy Chinese low wage products at WalMart,, buy bananas cut & packed at slavery level wages, You too are GUILTY. So hush your fuss….We’ve had enough guilt for today!!!