ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause
The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”
A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:
We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.
We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.
However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.
The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.
Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.
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883 comments Add your comment
Scout
August 1st, 2010
9:30 pm
@@:
Thank you for your kind words. Sometime I just want to give up on these threads ……….. but then I think there just may be that one person ………….. and eternity is a long, long time.
@@
August 1st, 2010
9:35 pm
YOU, are most welcome, Scout!
BADA BING
August 1st, 2010
9:39 pm
SPQR…… if you did not let Gov’t workers have coffee at work, would time stand still? haha
@@
August 1st, 2010
9:58 pm
Scout:
You mentioned an impending strike against Iran? I’m following events as they unfold in Syria.
Hezbollah Looks for Shield From Indictments’ Sting
I’ve been reading at Stratfor that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey and Syria are looking to hang Hezbollah out to dry hoping that Syria will win favor with the U.S. and its allies. It’s been a slow process over the last two years.
Hezbollah’s been told that if they enter into a military conflict with Israel, they will be on their own. No one will be there to support them.
We shall see.
Scout
August 1st, 2010
10:00 pm
CONTRASTS
“Fight those who belive not
In Allah or the last day,
Nor hold that forbidden
Which hath been forbidden
By Allah and His Messenger
Nor ackowledge the religion
Of Truth, from among
The People of the Book,
Until they pay
With willing
submission the “Jizga”
And feel themselves subdued.
The Koran, Sura 9:29 (The Verse of the Sword)
Persuade those gently who believe not
In Jesus Christ or the last day,
Nor hold to yourself that
Which has been hidden
By the Father and the Holy Spirit
Nor acknowledge the religion
Of false doctrine, from among
The people of the Koran
Until they accept God’s free gift
Of eternal life in Jesus
And feel themselves eternally forgiven
The Bible (Old & New Testaments)
Scout
August 1st, 2010
10:04 pm
@@:
Here is what really concern me. Sholars have looked all prophecy of the end times in the Old and New Testaments and you can find what are obvious references to Israel, Egypt and the Middle Eastern Countries, Russia, The Revived Roman Empire (European Union) and perhaps even China.
The United States appears to be absolutely missing from these events.
That means we have become so weak as to not be a major player on the world scene.
Dusty
August 1st, 2010
10:05 pm
Well, I am late but I have enjoyed reading the thoughts and ideas presented by some of you. This has been a nice day. Morning at church with all the people who enjoy being there to worship. Bible readings started with Ecclesiastes which is always exciting reading . The gospels, the psalms , the good news, organ resounding and a good sermon. We had visitors from Uganda. Sunday School was educational with a video of a theologian giving his thoughts. Lutherans always return to one basic thought “We are saved by Grace .” I thought some of you who don’t go to church might like to know what REALLY happens there. That and dozens of outrach programs continue. And the doors are always open and all are invited in.
When I came home, I sat down later at my desk and read really distressing news from this world of ours . I will tell you later. Don’t want you to get too bored. Maybe you won’t be surprised!
Scout
August 1st, 2010
10:20 pm
Dusty:
Please let us know. Maybe we can help ………. ar leasr pray.
Dusty
August 1st, 2010
10:21 pm
Scout,
I realize that you are quite the Biblical scholar. But have you not read that we will never know the day or time for the End of this world’s existence? I can’t tell you exactly where to find those Biblical words. I do think it means we are not to worry about dates and times. We are not told everything and we should not presume to have such knowledge. We just do the best we can in the happiness of a loving Savior.
Dusty
August 1st, 2010
10:40 pm
Scout, thank you. It is not a personal problem but a terrible one.
Doctors Without Borders regularly sends me their information (and requests for funds). Their discription of what goes on daily in regions of the Congo is unbelievable. So many people in camps or living in the country and afraid to go for any kind of medical help for fear of being killed on the way. Killing seems to be an every day experience. The doctors talk about malnourished children dying from malaria and every kind of depravement and wounds while people try to stay alive. DWB established base camps for those who can make it but we are talking about thousands and thousands of dying people in a huge area.. It sounds almost worse than Darfur but we don’t hear much about the problems in Congo..
Doctors Without Borders was established by French doctors and is well known throughout the world for their humanitarian work. All this you probably know. They have esablished portable hospital units that can be rushed to catastrophes. They came to Haiti immediately and I saw pictures of their portable ORs and hospital units.
Anyway, it is such a reputable organization. When I read the first hand reports of what they see while trying to give medical care I still find shocking. So forgive me for being a bit “dramatic” but the suffering of some people is almost impossible to imagine. Yes, prayers are needed for the tragedies of this world. and I hope we do all possible to help in any way we can.
Thanks for “listening”.
Dusty
August 1st, 2010
11:15 pm
Well, it is getting late. I did not mean to run everybody off. I don’t work for Doctors Without Borders. I think they do good work in terrible situations.. G’nite….
Scout
August 1st, 2010
11:33 pm
Dusty:
1) I have had malaria. It is NOT fun. Who is attacking them and why?
2) There are verses saying no one knows the day or the hour.
However, there are other verses saying we should not be caught totally unaware.
How do we reconcile this.
Here is what some Bible scholars think and I “tend” to agree.
There are seven Jewish feasts in the year as follows:
Passover
Unleavened Bread
First Fruits
Pentacost
Feast of Trumpets
Tabernacles
Atonement
Jesus fulfilled the first four feats not only symbolically but ON THE ACTUAL DAY as follows:
Passover (Death on the Cross)
Unleavened Bread (In the Tomb)
Firstfruits (Resurrection)
Pentecost (Holy Spirit Given 50 days later)
That leaves three feasts:
Trumpets (Rapture)
Tabernacles (Millineum)
Atonement (Final Judgement)
If Christ fulfilled the first four symbolically AND on the actual day why wouldn’t the pattern continue?
The next one is Trumpets (Rapture) and it comes ever September (Rosh Hashana)
I believe the Lord will come back “one of these Rosh Hashana’s) We don’t know the day because we don’t know which year and we certainly don’t know the hour. At the same time we should be anticipating each Rosh Hashana and thereby not “totally surprised.”
These views I believe fulfill scripture.
Billings
August 2nd, 2010
12:38 am
Bad economy + disgruntled muslim youth + radical imam = ????????????
It is already happening in Europe.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 2nd, 2010
4:57 am
Palin On Afghanistan: If We’re Not “In It To Win It” Americans Need To Know
Well, Darling, I’m here to tell ya…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 2nd, 2010
5:01 am
Instead, what has turned out to work well is an approach American officials have talked much less about: counterterrorism, military-speak for the targeted killings of insurgents from Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
It works even better without the Urinal whining about imaginary collateral damage, oh yeah, haven’t heard about that in a while, have you?
And if you think we aren’t “torturing” anymore…
Baker
August 2nd, 2010
5:33 am
Look up the name Cordoba and see what comes up, this not an accident.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
August 2nd, 2010
5:46 am
With the gush plugged for the past two weeks, experts are beginning to question whether the BP spill can really be called an environmental disaster at all.
It is a disaster………………….for the environmental terrorists.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
6:36 am
Oh Scout…. your 10pm post from last night. I think you forgot THESE parts from your bible (about what should be done with your own non-believers) I mean fair is fair if you’re going to “cherry pick” the evil parts of the muslim fable and add the sweet and savory parts of your own):
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
and finally this verse gives reason for the crusades.
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
Fair is fair… Because it seems to me that your own bible is full of the very same wickedness, hate, bigotry, and calling for murdering of “non-believers” as the muslim fable has in it.
BTW…any reason why you DON’T follow these laws and obey what these other humans once wrote down as your “laws”? Del? Dusty? @@? Bruno?
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
6:43 am
I know our good friend Josef will say it was “bad manners” of me to post what I just did… but just reading through the posts that one took the prize when it comes to “cherry picking” evidence to make one’s case. I mean not for nothing…but I think the “evidence” posted above clearly shows that both religions call for one and the same: the murder of those who don’t submit and follow your god. Seems to have been a popular theme back in the good ol’ days when the story tellers were making it up as they went along…
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:20 am
Saul – 6:36 – well done!
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:23 am
oh, and hey … police found that there isn’t supporting evidence to prosecute Al Gore. AGAIN.
http://www.salon.com/news/al_gore/index.html?story=/news/feature/2010/07/30/gore_sex_allegations
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:23 am
Good Monday morning all y’all …today is the happiest time of the year…first day of school in Cherokee counry! As such, I offer a little history lesson…
http://punditkitchen.com/2010/07/30/political-pictures-afghan-comic/
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:29 am
Normal – one of my all-time favorite ads is the Staples commercial with the song “It’s the Most Wonderful Time of the Year” – it has the dad buying school supplies for his kid, leaping and pirouetting through the aisles, while the kids walk behind him like they’re marching to the hangman’s scaffold
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:29 am
Palin On Afghanistan: If We’re Not “In It To Win It” Americans Need To Know
When I see her in cammies and toting a i5 in the sand, then I’ll know she’s serious and nor just talking out of the right side of her face…
TaxPayer
August 2nd, 2010
7:30 am
Saul,
“Christians” such as Scout, et al, only pull out items such as you list in your 6:36 when they wish to justify their lust for war and preemption, etc.
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:32 am
normal – you mean this sarah palin
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/ig/Sarah-Palin-Pictures/Cut-and-Run.htm
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:34 am
USinUK,
I remember that one. My Grandson feels the same say today…you’d think they were offering him a blindfold….and he the school’s top student last year.
My experiences with first days were always happier. I was already practicing football a couple of weeks before and when I (or any football player) would walk through the door, the cheerleaders would do that “Normal, Normal, he’s our man” cheer. So, all in all first days were cool…
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:35 am
Normal – I still do that cheer when I see you!!
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:41 am
USinUK,
Ha, ha…thank you!
USinUK
August 2nd, 2010
7:42 am
… and with that (and now that I’ve downed the requisite glass of water), I’m off to give blood …
later!
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:43 am
LOL cat of the day…
http://icanhascheezburger.com/2010/07/31/funny-pictures-bitterly-disappointed-me/
Southern Comfort
August 2nd, 2010
7:43 am
G’mornin’ everybody. Don’t have too much fun today Normal…
AmVet
August 2nd, 2010
7:44 am
Way to go cons. Ms. Brewer appears to have shot herself in the flat feet on this one. And I thought you “conservatives” were supposed to be pro-business.
I guess this is a case of the free market policing itself! LOL.
From the Communist News Network:
At least 40 groups have canceled meetings or conventions in Arizona since Gov. Jan Brewer signed a new immigration bill, said Kristen Jarnagin, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Hotel & Lodging Association.
It’s a blow to hotel owners who had been hoping for a boost in business after a dismal 2009.
“It’s definitely not going to be the year of recovery that we had hoped,” Jarnagin said.
Lowell Franks
August 2nd, 2010
7:47 am
Until the so-called peaceful Muslims can come out with condemnation of the radical, terrorist element of their religion, they should not be allowed any liberties..
Doggone/GA
August 2nd, 2010
7:49 am
“Until the so-called peaceful Muslims can come out with condemnation ”
Then you can rest easy…they already have, and they already do
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
I see where President Obama is going to be in Atlanta talking to the Disabled Vet Associations about benefits and jobs.
I figure the best way to help disabled vets in this recession is to quit making more of them. Bring them home, Mr. President, bring them home now!
Southern Comfort
August 2nd, 2010
7:51 am
I hope Lowell isn’t talking about squashing fellow American’s rights. It would be interesting to see what the reaction would be if someone was talking about opening an indoor shooting range there with a 5-story gun shop.
Lowell Franks
August 2nd, 2010
7:52 am
They must have whispered it..
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
7:54 am
SoCo,
Fun is my middle name…only now it takes longer and I do it slower…
Lowell Franks
August 2nd, 2010
7:55 am
10-4 on the shooting range..
Doggone/GA
August 2nd, 2010
7:55 am
“They must have whispered it..”
Just because they don’t knock on your door and shout it to your face doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And, more to the point, just because it isn’t REPORTED IN THE NEWS, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen EITHER.
Lowell Franks
August 2nd, 2010
7:57 am
Where is it reported??
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
7:58 am
TaxPayer @ 7:30am… yups, I know. That way they can justify the “burning down of villages”… yet they fail to use the passages in their entirety… like the one posted that says “never to be built”… I mean what if that place holds vast amount of oil???
Normal… first day of school? I could live here for the rest of my life and will never get why school starts so much earlier… I guess it goes back to the “harvest” which comes earlier down here… There are some old traditions which really need to be “updated”… because I don’t know of too many kids working on their parents farms around these parts any longer. I mean, not when they can pay Jose and Maria a nickle and hour while they (farmer brown and his wife) sit inside watching Fox and blasting those darn pesky illegals.
USinUK… it’s okay… the “right” has already “prosecuted” Al with all of the evidence they had presented to them on Fox and on Rush’s “Grand ol’ Story Time Hour”… sentencing takes place soon by Judge Beck. I heard he got his law degree at his own “University”…
AmVet
August 2nd, 2010
8:00 am
Lowell, Seig Heil!
From an earlier post of mine, here’s a tiny fraction of the information, you’ve chosen to remain ignorant about. If you have the cojones (hat tip Sarah BarraClueless) Do a simple search and you’ll see just how utterly uninformed your oft-parroted claim is…
CAIR, the Islamic Society of North America, The American Islamic Congress, The American Muslim, and many others have forcefully spoken out against the murder.
For example: The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has consistently and persistently condemned terrorism and the killing of innocent civilians. CAIR has also organized fatwas, petition drives, placed advertisements in national and local newspapers, ran public service announcements on television and radio stations, helped local Mosques across the United States in holding open houses, published Op-Eds in local and national newspapers, conducted inter-faith meetings and worked with scholars to disseminate the peaceful teachings of Islam.
http://www.google.com/search?q=american+muslims+speak+out+against+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
8:01 am
Saul,
School starts earlier because fewer teachers can be overworked for less pay, longer…all for the benefit of the kids, of course…
Southern Comfort
August 2nd, 2010
8:01 am
Saul
The early school isn’t a southern thing. It’s only been recently that the school year starts so early. When I was in school, we didn’t start until after Labor Day. Then again, that was 20+ years ago and in Alabama too.
Normal
Take your time. Fun is meant to be savored!!!
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:04 am
USinUK… funny website!
i like this one:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/ig/Sarah-Palin-Pictures/Palin-2012.0QnG.htm
(in fact I rec all a post from last night with Scout’s predictions about the “end”)…
Don’t forget non-believers… you still have a few “shopping days left” until you can accept “that guy” as your lord and savior and soon be dining at that fancy shmancy all inclusive party palace in the sky!
Dill Dough
August 2nd, 2010
8:07 am
AmVet..I should not have to do a search to find news..I agree with Lowell..
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:07 am
Oh…just to prepare myself in case I “lie” to get in
Do those who were killed in a manner which disfigured them look like they did right when they died… or how they looked before? Or maybe one gets to “choose” what age… be that 18 year old hottie again… I wonder what the “good book” says on this. I mean there could be a passage talking about throwing rocks at a wall and somebody out there will twist the words to make it seem as if they’re talking about fixing your car…
Doggone/GA
August 2nd, 2010
8:08 am
“can be overworked for less pay, longer”
What do you mean by “longer”? Georgia’s school year is not significantly longer than that of other states. Accoring to this site:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d03/tables/dt126.asp
it’s 180 days – at least for the 2000-2001 school year. The longest is Texas with 187 days (everything is bigger in TX, right?) and the shortest is North Dakota at 173 dayes
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:09 am
SoCo… I didn’t mean exclusively Southern… midwest and other areas do it as well. Yup…beginning of school ALWAYS was after Labor Day for me (and it still is up there in Yankeeville).
Doggone/GA
August 2nd, 2010
8:10 am
“It’s only been recently that the school year starts so early. When I was in school, we didn’t start until after Labor Day. Then again, that was 20+ years ago and in Alabama too”
It’s been that way as long as I’ve been in GA and we moved here in 1965. In PA, when we moved away anyhow, the school year started after Labor Day also.
Gale
August 2nd, 2010
8:10 am
Normal, That cat of the day is about how I am feeling in my cubicle this Monday morning.
And Saul, that’s for digging up the other side of the Judeo-Christian “good” book. There is plenty of blood there to match other theist religions.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:14 am
Lowell:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/us/01imams.html?_r=1
American Muslims Make Video to Rebut Militants
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: July 31, 2010
“A recent spate of arrests of Muslims accused of terrorism in the United States has revealed that many of them were radicalized by militant preaching they found on the Internet.
Now nine influential American Muslim scholars have come together in a YouTube video to repudiate the militants’ message. The nine represent a diversity of theological schools within Islam, and several of them have large followings among American Muslim youths.
The video is one indication that American Muslim leaders are increasingly engaging the war of ideas being waged within Islam.
“We need to shepherd our own flock and to say that, theologically, these things are unacceptable,” said Imam Suhaib Webb, the educational director for the Muslim American Society, a grass-roots group in Santa Clara, Calif., who is among the nine in the video. “The Prophet Muhammad, when on the battlefield, saw that amongst the enemy there were innocent women and children killed, and he was openly angry. He is prohibiting us from killing the innocent. It is very clear.”
There ya go….
Southern Comfort
August 2nd, 2010
8:14 am
I think they pad the school year with extra holidays and stuff now. We started after Labor Day and was finished before June. I don’t think the number of school days has changed. I think they’ve added more days out of school that stretches the calendar more.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:15 am
Gale: “There is plenty of blood there to match other theist religions.”
But it works SO well in the brainwashing of the kiddies through the use of fear (like: if they ever thought about worshiping ANOTHER human created religion/god… they’ll die). Works great!
Gale
August 2nd, 2010
8:17 am
Somehow, if I was a parent, I would prefer a condensed year. The sporadic days off for kids mean working parents have to figure out day care on those days. It is likely easier to manage a longer period of day care, or part time work when kids are off for the whole summer.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:19 am
Dill: Read my post from 8:14… just because it’s not reported on Fox or heard on the Grand Ol’ Opry news show presented by Rush (and those other #1 RATED MSM news programs-stations… don’t mean it’s not in the news) It simply means that it doesn’t align well with their agenda.
AmVet
August 2nd, 2010
8:23 am
Dill, then you’re living up to your name.
How lazy are you willing you be just to stay that blissfully ignorant? Is propagating nonsense, ala the right wing noise machine, more useful than the truth?
And for the both of you, ANY American who advocates taking away liberties from an entire group of other Americans like you propose, would have fit in very well in 1930s Germany.
Speaking of the right wing noise machine, Normal, great info on how civic action caused Fox to not obtain that choicest of seats at press conferences! Way to go, America! We love ya!
Normal
August 2nd, 2010
8:27 am
AmVet and all…posting this blind…no you tube at work, but if it works close your eyes and listen…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHfqnGg2K1M
AmVet
August 2nd, 2010
8:32 am
Thanks, Normie! That got my day started out right!
(Singing the background harmony!)
Off to be a happy idiot!
Later…
Curious Observer
August 2nd, 2010
8:42 am
Somehow, if I was a parent, I would prefer a condensed year.
I always enjoyed listening to my father when he talked about his school years. Because he grew up in an extremely rural area, school didn’t begin until October, once harvesting was finished. It let out in early April, when planting time came. The entire school system revolved around farming.
I find it absurd that school now begins in early-to-mid August, given the fact that all those extra days are built into the schedule to accommodate weather events and other occurrences. Kids don’t even get the chance to enjoy a complete summer off. And yet it’s clear they don’t learn any more.
Jimmy62
August 2nd, 2010
8:43 am
No one is asking for a ban of any religion. We’re merely asking for a Mosque not to be built on ground zero. It’s insensitive to everyone who lost someone they loved there, and quite immoral to just ignore that in the name of some false attempt at diversity. There are Mosques all over the United States, and plenty of places to build new ones. Just not here, not now. That doesn’t maker me a bigot, but the people trying to build a Mosque by ground zero, no matter who they hurt, are certainly a**holes.
Doggone/GA
August 2nd, 2010
8:44 am
“We’re merely asking for a Mosque not to be built on ground zero. ”
You can rest easy. It’s NOT going to be built on ground zero. Nor is it going to be built “by” ground zero.
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
8:48 am
this was discussed ad nauseum on CT’s blog last week. here’s the bottom line for all the revisionist history/jingo crusaders: nobody know’s what motivated Tim McVeigh, but it is WELL KNOWN that his “beef” with the federal government stemmed (in part) from the assualt on the Branch Dividian (Christian sect) compound in Waco. it is also KNOWN that he was a fan of the “Turner Diaries”, an anti-Semitic tome, which contains some fundamentalist Christian dna. you people are rubes. the 9/11 terrorists were terrorists first and Muslims second. the particularly violent, intollerant and militant brand (and that’s what it is, a brand) of Islam proferred by OBL and his ilk is more a recruiting tool than religious dogma. the fact that you see this as some epic good vs. evil struggle (or as Scout claims “dark vs light”) is exactly what the terrorists want. all acts of terrorism are law enforcement issues; no different than a murder, hijacking or bank robbery. can’t you people see that bin laden et al are cowards and they know they cannot acheive their goal alone, so they have (successfully, it would appear) attempted make this a war between the US and Islam, and not the US and al Qeada. oh, and please show me the central, worldwide Islamic authority, which preaches “terrorism” as part of its doctrine or dogma (and don’t cite the Q’ran, because as noted, the Bible offers some pretty gnarly stuff as well).
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
8:54 am
neo…great post… but know what? Those who need to read it most… it will fall upon blind eyes and deaf ears… because “their” god and religion can do no wrong.
I often wonder… if the “leaders” and elders of christianity called for all of their flock to raise arms and go and murder every muslim they could find (using the passages I posted above as the reason)… how many of them would follow through and do just that?
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
8:54 am
one more thing (Jimmy62), you got some cajones hiding behind “everyone who lost someone they love…” on 9/11. what about the people who lost “someone they did not love”? if everyone who died on 9/11 was a cad or heel, would it be OK? you have no authority to speak for others, just as ronnie and polly and Scout, et al, have no authority to speak about the true essence of Islam, or what may or may not have motivated Tim McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, or any other white, Christian, American military vet, who ended up commiting terrorist acts. didn’t the former “Clown-in-Chief” like to say; “…they hate us for our freedoms”? well, if the right-wing nuts and ADL types succeed, we have no “freedoms”. go back to CT’s blog and note the comments of A United States Marine. the Constitution is the law, not the Bible or Q’ran or “Sarah Gingerich’s” talking points
Jimmy62
August 2nd, 2010
9:02 am
neo-Carlinist. Obviously I’m just a stupid hick, because in all your rantings, I can’t find much in the way of an actual point.
I’m curious, if I’m not allowed to speak up, who is? It’s ironic that you spout all this stuff about freedoms in the same paragraph where you say I have no right to speak about anything relating to anything else. So what is it? Do I have rights and freedoms, such as the one to speak my opinion, or not?
Typical left wing hypocrisy, freedom is awesome! Unless you’re right wing or disagree with me!
Scout
August 2nd, 2010
9:05 am
Saul Good, et al
Only one problem. We don’t live under O.T. law anymore but under N.T. grace through Christ.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
9:08 am
Jimmy….the zoning laws allow them to build what they want and choose to… there is something called “Freedom of Religion” here in our United States. No ONE religion is any more important or is afforded MORE rights compared to any other in our nation. No laws are broken in building what the muslims want and are seeking to do. Don’t like it? Don’t go there and attend their gatherings. You’re “free” to do that as well.
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
9:09 am
Saul, if you have the stomach, and have not done so, read the Turner Diaries. it may shed some light on your retorical question about a Christian “call to arms”. of course, the overt racism and anti-Semitism is presented as patriotism. in many ways, it would appear bin Laden has taken a page from the Turner Diaries in his efforts to have a Muslim-only world (Turner wants a world in which all non-whites and Jews are eliminated). and, as I noted on CT’s blog, the link between the terrorists recently arrested in Indiana and Michigan and “Christianity” has neen noted as well. “terrorism” is not exclusive to acts of violence (hijackings, suicide bombings, etc.). hate/fear mongering can be as effective as a IED, when present to otherwise ignorant or delusional citizens. the hate and quasi-Biblical justification being preached by (some on) the right is no different than the stupid audio and videotapes we see on al Jezerra every couple of three months.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
9:10 am
Errr…Scout…are you saying that here in the USA…we all live under the laws in YOUR bible?
Let’s see…the 10 commandments…only two of them are actual laws. Don’t kill and don’t steal.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
9:14 am
Neo, I did in fact read the Turner Diaries (like many did after it came out that McVeigh was a “follower”)…
Yet know what? Those that believe in that crap…they have the “Freedom” to do so in our nation. Write that crap, publish that crap, and others have the right to buy it and read it… our nation’s library’s have the right to purchase it and “loan” it to our citizens…
The “sad” part is when others take those words literally…even worse when they teach those words to their children and create more little bigots and racists. Ever see some of the “radical” websites they’ve created just for the “kiddies”??? Enough to make one puke…
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
9:18 am
Jimmy62, I didn’t say you are a “stupid hick”. I believe I used the term rube, in general, so if the shoe fits… you have the right to speak for Jimmy62, period. I know people who died on 9/11. I have family members who were in the WTC when the ‘93 attack took place. I have a sibling who still talks of the smell of burning jet fuel and human flesh, and is still haunted by the “thud” of bodies hitting the asphalt in lowe Manhattan; she saw the second plane hit WTC. so, the very fact that you retorically ask others to consider MY feelings, but refuse to accept that MY feelings place the Constitution ahead of my feelings, makes your posts somewhat flawed. and you blanket “typical left wing hypocrisy” comment is the exclamation point. I am not “typical” of any ideology and I am probably far more (truly) conservative than you. oh, and I have another sibling who knew people who died as a result of the post-9/11 anthrax attacks, which most believe were the work of a white American (former DoD bioweapons tech).
Jimmy62
August 2nd, 2010
9:21 am
Saul,
I never denied they have the right to build there. I’m just saying it would be an a**hole thing to do. And if the people wanting to do it are peaceful Muslims who want to show that not all Muslims are terrorists (which, of course, is true and shouldn’t need to be pointed out), they could find a lot of better ways to do it than building a Mosque where it’s pretty obvious there will be a lot of emotional resistance and anger. I know in your perfect multicultural world, no one could possibly be offended, but this isn’t that world, and people will be offended, and it doesn’t in any way support the cause of peace to force this on people. Also, in your perfect multicultural fantasy world, 9/11 would never have happened in the first place.
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
9:33 am
Jimmy62, do you read your posts before posting? do you “hear” yourself? terrorists are “a**holes”. you are projecting your view toward all Muslims. if the City of NY has OK’s the facility (is it a mosque, or community center) and the organization planning to build the facility has met all code requirements, then let’s all move on. this is no different than people who consume electricity or dispose of household waste, but they don’t want wind turbines or waste transfer sations in THEIR neighborhoods. you really need to draw the line between terrosists and Muslims; or else ALL religions are in harms way (and I’m agnostic). you have the right to express your opinion, but that “right” originates from the very same document (same Amendment, no less) that gives Muslims to the right to worship anywhere in the U.S.
Saul Good
August 2nd, 2010
9:34 am
“I know in your perfect multicultural world”
Perfect world? No… too many bigots and too many human created borders which were put into place to “limit” humans and their travels.
Multicultural world? Last I looked around it still was….
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
10:00 am
Jimmy62,
“I know in your perfect multicultural world, no one could possibly be offended, but this isn’t that world, and people will be offended”
EXACTLY, so why don’t you stop “being offended” (or “defending”) the people who lost loved ones on 9/11, or the citizens of NYC? the Muslims who want to build in lower Manhattan are not “offended”. it is the Jimm62’s, Scout’s, ronnie’s, and polly’s of the world who are “offended” or view this as a “slap in the face”.
“and it doesn’t in any way support the cause of peace to force this on people. ”
again, EXACTLY! “force”? who is “forcing this on people”? the Constitution is pretty clear on this one. it is the people who oppose the “mosque” who are trying to “force” their specific, very skewed “culltural” values on the NY City government in general, and Muslims in particular.
“Also, in your perfect multicultural fantasy world, 9/11 would never have happened in the first place.” can’t even respond to this one. as if a monocultural fantasy world is somehow less offensive? the U.S. is “mulitcultural”. I know the right leaning talking heads (Rush, Savage, Hannity, Colture, et al) have conscripted the word and have proclaimed it a “bad word”, but the truth is, we are a multi-cultural nation, and the Founding Fathers saw fit to accept this. in the absence of a multi-cultural world, which “culture” should drive U.S. law? seems to me we’d end up no better than the Saudi Arabia’s and Iran’s folks like you continue to cite (for relgious intolerance).
Dusty
August 2nd, 2010
10:24 am
Thankyou, Jimmy62, for your rational and fair voice.
The morning crew here, bless their liberal hearts, are EXPERTS on every subject. They know more about Christianity than the Christians. They know more about Muslims than the Muslims. Some present the idea of victory in war is to retreat. That is their idea of support for our military..They know every detail of politics, ‘especially any misadventure of a Republican which they keep on a handy list for blogging. They have transferred their blind hate for Bush to Palin.
This is demonstrated in the next thread where Bookman generously admits the ethical failures of two Democrats. Then he follows with all the suspicious claims he knows about Republicans. That’s offered so liberrals will not be too upset. It is the modus operandi followed each day by liberals and sometimes conservatives.
Well, It IS a liberal blog as so indicated by their leader. Intruders are to be chastised. Why should anything else be permitted?
neo-Carlinist
August 2nd, 2010
10:33 am
and the Dusty’s of the world have “transferred their blind hate” of Russians/Communists to Muslims. will the circle be unbroken?
Scout
August 2nd, 2010
2:06 pm
Saul Good:
I’m talking about “spiritual laws” that will conduct our lives by as Chrisitans ……….. not U.S. codified law.
P.S. Permanently gone upstairs.
Dusty
August 2nd, 2010
2:33 pm
neocarlinist.
You’re wasting your time. Hate the Russians? Hate the Muslims? Naww. I only hate big, fat lies.
Balsher
August 2nd, 2010
9:36 pm
Mr. Bookman and all in the blogosphere:
Please see Abe Foxman’s op-ed that was published earlier today in the Huffington Post. For those of you who would “shut the doors” of the ADL, please consider all of the good work that it has done, and still does, day in and day out. Reasonable people might disagree on the issue of the mosque near ground zero, but please don’t malign the ADL, Abe Foxman, or the organization’s motives. Below is the op-ed.
———————
To: National Commission
Thought you would want to see this Abe Foxman Op-Ed that was just posted on the Huffington Post.
Abraham H. Foxman
National Director of the Anti-Defamation League
Posted: August 2, 2010 06:05 PM
The Mosque at Ground Zero
Perhaps no issue in recent memory has aroused as much controversy and passion as the proposed Islamic community center and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. Those passions came to a head as the blogosphere reacted, mostly in a headlong rush to judgment, over the recommendation by the Anti-Defamation League that New York City would be better served if an alternative location could be found.
The reaction was immediate, and in most cases we were maligned, and our position was mischaracterized and deeply misunderstood. The main charge was that an anti-bigotry organization had joined with the bigots. That false accusation was extremely painful and served to diminish and obscure the fact that our position on the Islamic center was carefully considered, clearly stated and consistent with our values and mission.
There are legitimate differences of opinion regarding the building of an Islamic cultural center at Ground Zero.
To us, after much discussion and debate it became clear that the overriding concern should be the sensitivities of the families of the victims that dictated finding another location for this massive, $100 million project.
At its essence, our position is about sensitivity. Everyone — victims, opponents and proponents alike — must pay attention to the sensitivities involved without giving in to appeals to, or accusations of, bigotry. Ultimately, this was not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center would unnecessarily cause some victims more pain. And that wasn’t right.
Having made our decision known, we expected disagreement and criticism from some quarters. What has been so disheartening, however, has been the nature of that criticism. Two kinds of attacks have been particularly troubling: that we are violating principles of religious freedom, and that we are stereotyping Muslims.
These criticisms simply ignore ADL’s record in dealing with such matters, particularly in the post-9/11 climate.
Shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Muslims were being stereotyped and in some cases individual Muslims or Muslim institutions were attacked. ADL took the lead in not standing idly by. We took out ads in The New York Times and other newspapers with the headline, “Don’t Fight Hate with Hate.” Our message was that a terrible event occurred on 9/11, a national tragedy brought on by hate, but the way to deal with it was to fight the terrorists, and not to stereotype and hate individual Muslims.
Similarly, when two mosques in Dallas were targets of shooting, ADL’s director in Dallas organized a press conference featuring the imam of one of the mosques, a Baptist minister and himself to speak together against this dangerous and inappropriate reaction to the 9/11 horror.
When a Muslim congressman was condemned by some for taking the oath of office on a Koran instead of a Bible, ADL was quick to defend his right to that option.
In Ohio, in 2002, ADL called upon Cuyahoga County corrections officials to reverse their decision not to permit Muslim women to wear their hijab in the courtroom. In 2006, ADL condemned remarks by a member of Congress depicting Muslims in a stereotypical way.
And there are many more examples in recent years of ADL’s voice standing out against anti-Muslim bigotry.
Indeed, ADL supports the building of mosques, like churches and synagogues, just about anywhere in the country. That is a religious freedom perspective.
And when French government officials sought to bar the wearing by Muslims of religious facial garments, ADL spoke out to defend the right of Muslims to wear traditional clothing and participate as full members of society.
Not to mention ADL’s day-to-day work across this country in fighting hate crimes, which affect Muslims, and in teaching about respect and tolerance for difference in schools, workplaces and federal institutions.
All in all, we have established ourselves as leaders in promoting pluralism and fighting against bigotry, particularly against Muslims in the difficult post-9/11 period.
Critics should consider that context and credibility before reacting to ADL’s position. Clearly we would not take a position to limit religious freedom. Clearly we would never take a position that would stereotype Muslims.
However, we also must take into consideration the feelings of the families who lost loved ones at Ground Zero.
The lessons of an earlier and different controversy echo in this one. In 1993, Pope John Paul II asked 14 Carmelite Nuns to move their convent from just outside the Auschwitz death camp. The establishment of the convent near Auschwitz had stirred dismay among Jewish groups and survivors who felt that the location was an affront and a terrible disservice to the memory of millions of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis in the Holocaust.
Just as we thought then that well-meaning efforts by Carmelite nuns to build a Catholic structure were insensitive and counterproductive to reconciliation, so too we believe it will be with building a mosque so close to Ground Zero.
The better way for Muslims seeking reconciliation and moderation would have been for them to reach out to the families of the victims, who we are sure could have recommended any number of actions to achieve those goals other than the present plan.
To make this a test of whether one supports religious freedom or is stereotyping Muslims is to engage in demagoguery. Good people can differ as to what should happen, without falsely being accused of abandoning their principles.
Abraham H. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, is National Director of the Anti-Defamation League.