ADL abandons its principles, surrenders its cause

The Anti-Defamation League calls itself “the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency,” proclaiming in its mission statement that “its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”

A group deserving of such a description could never have put out a statement like this:

We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.

We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.

However, there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.

The controversy which has emerged regarding the building of an Islamic Center at this location is counterproductive to the healing process. Therefore, under these unique circumstances, we believe the City of New York would be better served if an alternative location could be found.

In recommending that a different location be found for the Islamic Center, we are mindful that some legitimate questions have been raised about who is providing the funding to build it, and what connections, if any, its leaders might have with groups whose ideologies stand in contradiction to our shared values. These questions deserve a response, and we hope those backing the project will be transparent and forthcoming. But regardless of how they respond, the issue at stake is a broader one.

Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain – unnecessarily – and that is not right.

Such a statement contradicts everything the ADL has claimed to defend, as those who drafted it know all too well. In one sentence they explain and defend their principles; in the next, they abandon those principles. They condemn bigotry, then surrender to it. It’s a deeply disappointing display of moral cowardice, a surrender to the very forces in human nature that the ADL exists to combat.

883 comments Add your comment

@@

July 31st, 2010
8:09 am

Had they said the mosque could be built nowhere in the U.S., I would agree, but that’s not what they’re saying. They’re simply asking that everyone consider the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.

Sounds reasonable to me.

stands for decibels

July 31st, 2010
8:09 am

Yeah, I saw this too. Not angry, mostly I just wanna shake my head and say to the ADL “what are you guys thinking?”

Normal

July 31st, 2010
8:10 am

The Supposed defenders of human rights have just lost all crediaibily and need to close their door.

If you ban one religion, then you must ban them all.

Normal

July 31st, 2010
8:19 am

Putting the same blanket of guilt on all Muslims for 911, is like putting a blanket of guilt on all White Christians for Timothy McVeigh’s bombing in Oklahoma City.

Fear mongering is all it is and y’all are falling for it.

You Christians have a slogan of “Let go and let God”, which I suppose, means let go of your fears and let God take care of you. I think it’s time for y’all to, if not practise it more, at least think about it more.

Still, bottom line, New York City has approved the build site and I applaud them.

kayaker 71

July 31st, 2010
8:25 am

You must remember that the ADL was established in 1913 to fight anti-semitic attacks on Jews. It remains to this day an organization dedicated to this purpose. It doesn’t surprise me on bit that they would have objections to placing a mosque so close to ground zero. I am not a member of the ADL or a Jew but it offends me and millions of others that the big old Muslim finger would be raised to the city of NY. They already have 100 mosques in NY city alone. In 1970, they had 20. This “religion”, as it is so affectionately called, supports some of the worst acts of violence and depravity known to man. I wonder if they plan on installing a stoning pit at the new mosque? It is astounding that anyone could condone their so called “religious” practices or compare them to other great religions of the world.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

July 31st, 2010
8:26 am

Yeah. Let’s be tolerant of other religions. Like Islam is tolerant of other religions.

I agree, close the doors of the ADL. While we’re at it let’s close the doors of other organizations that have lost their credibility: ACLU, NAACP, National Urban League, SCLC, yada, yada, yada…..

Jack

July 31st, 2010
8:27 am

Bookman and Tucker have been gotten together on this subject and decided it’d get more feed-back than say, lawlessness in Atlanta.

kayaker 71

July 31st, 2010
8:30 am

Off topic,

Looks like another member of the Congressional Black Caucus is being brought up on charges of ethical misconduct. Our old friend, Maxine Waters, will join Charlie in two ethics trials which will no doubt last well into October of this year. Just in time for November. This is getting better every day.

Superman

July 31st, 2010
8:31 am

I quit.

What was that? Oh.

Sorry about that.

I thought it was the Justice League that said that.

My mistake. I’m not quitting.

Carry on.

Hootinanny Yum Yum

July 31st, 2010
8:31 am

Normal,

Not condoning McVeigh’s actions. It was horrendous. But wasn’t his target the Federal Government. As I see it, the World Trade Center’s attackers target was American society, culture and infidels.

kayaker 71

July 31st, 2010
8:33 am

McVey’s beef was with the federal government, not a religious statement.

Moderate Line

July 31st, 2010
8:33 am

I would somewhat disagree that they are abandoning their principles. In fact I would say they are very consistent. Most organizations like the ADL and NAACP have long been against symbolic signs of racism, bigotry and hatred. Sometimes they have taken this to far. For example, the swastika and the rebel flag.

They indicate that they believe the group has every right to build the mosque but should take into account the sensitivity of others before they build.

Building a mosque to some near where attack by a group claiming to having the same religion is inflammatory otherwise we would be having this discussion.

This is from someone who is not inflamed by such a building of a mosque. I have a hard time believe a moderate Muslim group would insist upon building a mosque near ground zero. Just like I find it hard to believe any state would insist upon flying a rebel flag over the state capital.

Moderate Line

July 31st, 2010
8:36 am

Rereading what I wrote I did not mean that fighting swastika and the rebel flag are taking it to far.

Finn McCool

July 31st, 2010
8:39 am

Levi Johnston Ex Lanesia Garcia Pregnant: Bristol Palin Wedding Off?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/30/levi-johnston-ex-lanesia_n_664897.html

The republicans would just LOVE to have this trailer park family living in the white house and going on the Springer show once or twice a month.

Moderate Line

July 31st, 2010
8:43 am

From my perspective one of the good things about liberalism is you take into account how other people feel. This was the complaint liberals had of George Bush remember.
It sad when someone abandons those principle not because of a higher principle but because the group who is being offended is not one in which you are aligned with.

From my perspective the ADL is sticking to its principles despite the fact that they are not aligned politcal with the opponents of the mosque.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
8:49 am

All we ask for is a little less stress in the world.

Normal

July 31st, 2010
8:51 am

Off topic, WHEN are we going to stop the madness?

http://ap.stripes.com/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=DCSAS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-07-30-03-13-29

Kayaker,
Thank’s for answering Yum Yum…

larry

July 31st, 2010
8:52 am

Off topic………. Looks like there wasnt any there, there. But she had already had her payday thanks to Faux News, um, National Enquirer.

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/gore-will-not-be-582118.html

Del

July 31st, 2010
8:55 am

kayaker 71,

Your 8:25am stated it all very well. The ADL stated their position very well. The Muslim supporters of this Islamic Community Center give the impression that they might even be mocking America by building this center so close to ground zero and naming it Cordoba. If they dedicated it in strong protest to the radical Islamic terrorist act of 09-11-01, then it might be looked upon differently, however, Muslims within this country have been far to silent about the terrorist acts committed by those who have done so in the name of Islam. This country was founded on Christian principals and I find it truly disconcerting that a few fellow Americans would try to draw comparisons between Christianity and radical Islam as well as those who call anyone a bigot, only because they question the wisdom and motives behind building this center.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
8:56 am

Remind me again why the WTC attack was about religion and how it became an Islam versus Judaism matter.

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
8:59 am

The ADL is wrong on this…as are ALL who refuse to let/allow Muslim’s to build there… if it’s zoned for it….let them build it. Otherwise it’s flat out “discrimination” which is illegal in the Real Estate world. So if it’s refused…I hope they sue. Yet also sue all those who spoke out against their legal right for “defamation”…

Hey…same thing is going on in GA. Mega Church filled Gwinnett County and Alpharetta have both recently refused to allow already established Mosques-Community Centers to be expanded. So it’s okay to have a 50,000 sq. foot Mega Church….but not a 20,000 Sq. ft Mosque? Of course all those who come out to “protest” about the “traffic” it’s going to create never came out to protest the traffic the considerably larger mega church’s were going to create when they applied to build.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
9:04 am

Perhaps some Christians are getting overly stressed out as a result of their fears. Join us and work with us to produce a less deformed world.

candide

July 31st, 2010
9:08 am

When Saudi Arabia allows the building of churches and synagogues in its holy land New York could allow a mosque on its holy site, not til then.

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
9:15 am

candide….

Know what that makes us (by your suggestion)?

The United States of Saudi Arabia.

Glad you’d like to see us sink so low.

Dirty Dawg

July 31st, 2010
9:15 am

What ‘principles’ would that be Jay? The ones that have ‘turned the other cheek’ (That may be New Testament, but it appropriate here) to Israel’s sixty-plus year treatment of the Palestinians? The ones that vilify a great, former President whose only goal was, and is, to help establish genuine peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike just by calling for ‘fair play’ for Palestine?

The only ‘principle’ ADL truly cares about are the ones in their bank accounts.

larry

July 31st, 2010
9:16 am

Its all about “those people”. Up here in NE Georgia, a company was wanting to build an affordable housing complex for working people which is badly needed. The county commission voted for the company to recieve government grants to help build the project. Once the citizens found out , they protested because of the so-called “traffic” problem it would cause. A “traffic” problem in a county of 24,000 people . It was because of “those people” who make less than 30,000 dollars a year the reason they were protesting.

Did i mention the county does not have zoning? Sounds a lot like this case.

N-GA

July 31st, 2010
9:17 am

And I find it pathetically hypocritical that certain people here knowingly throw “radical” Islam and all Muslims together, yet separate Christianity from the Reverend Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, and all the other rightwing Christian sects. That does pose an obvious question: Why are extremist religious sects almost always described as “right wing”?

larry

July 31st, 2010
9:19 am

Christians can not accept the fact we do have freedom of religion in this country. They are wanting to make this country a one religion country like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran……..

Just a different religion.

kayaker 71

July 31st, 2010
9:22 am

I don’t give two hoots and a holler about any so called “religion” whose primary aim is to destroy all who oppose them. We had enough of that in the Crusades and we don’t need some modern day flashback from the past reminding us that “religions” often get a pass because of their benevolent beginnings and their charitable aims. My neighbor is head pastor at a large Baptist church here in Macon. He has a lakeside home, drives three cars, a Lexus 420, a Mercedes S55 and a Mercedes S500. His wife is unemployed. All of the above were purchased tax free with funds from this most august tax free enterprise. “Church funds” purchase a lot of bennies that are shoved under the rug so that people are free to celebrate their “religion” freely. As to the Muslims, I don’t give a tinker’s damn about their so called “religions expression” or their freedom to practice what they call a “religion”. Until they stop stoning women, stop killing people in the name of some obscure 7th Century profit and cease their aim of world domination, they are no better than Hitler or any other demonic group hell bent on crushing their enemies. And placing a place of worship of this idiocy next to the greatest loss of life in this country since the Civil War is not only stupid, it is downright un American. They can take their Muslim profit and shove him where the sun don’t shine.

Kamchak

July 31st, 2010
9:29 am

Fear mongering is all it is and y’all are falling for it.

Four pages of it next door at sister Cynthia’s on this same topic.

Geez.

Del

July 31st, 2010
9:30 am

I find it intolerably anti-American that there are those who would try to compare Christianity with radical Islam. Particularly, because most Americans consider themselves to be Christians and believers in God. The far-left doesn’t like to acknowledge that fact because it pains them deeply but this Republic was founded on Christian/Judeo principals and the evidence of that exits almost anywhere you go in the United States .

Jack

July 31st, 2010
9:31 am

Organized religions make me a little nervous: especially when believers in a particular religion want to kill Americans in order for theirs to prosper.

Jay

July 31st, 2010
9:43 am

I do understand that this has been talked out already in a lot of settings. But I wanted to post it anyway because I personally found it so disappointing, and wanted to be on the record saying so.

I have a lot of respect for what the ADL has done in the past, and I like and respect its Southeastern director, Bill Nigut. But there is no way to get to the position they have taken in this case while honoring the principles they espouse, and that impossibility is reflected in the tortured “logic” of the ADL statement.

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
9:44 am

It’s amazing on how loudly and staunchly people defend the Bill of Rights until it contradicts or goes against something they feel strongly about. Another case of intolerance rearing its ugly head. I understand the sensitivities about the area surrounding Ground Zero. However, to curtail a group of American’s Constitutionally granted rights is giving the jihadists exactly what they want. By denying the center to be built there, protesters are siding with the jihadist/extremists that want to do away with the American way of life. Too bad they’re not able to see that.

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
9:50 am

Del

I’d have to disagree with you on the founding principles of this country. I personally think this country was founded on Masonic principles. That would mimic Christian principles as one has to believe in G*d in order to be a Mason. That deity, however, doesn’t have to be the Christian deity. One can be Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, or any other monotheistic religion and still become a Mason. That’s a different topic for a different day though.

Bud Wiser

July 31st, 2010
9:53 am

If you are so not cool with this Bookman, then let the ragheads build their assembly of terrorists in your neighborhood.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
10:04 am

This “us versus them” mentality espoused by so many so-called “Christians” is precisely the sort of attitude that could ultimately turn us into just another deviant society. THAT would be so un-American.

OgreOgre

July 31st, 2010
10:08 am

No synagogues anywhere near the World Trade Center site either then. Fair is fair.

midtownguy

July 31st, 2010
10:12 am

The USA is not a Christian country. It is a religiously free country where, because of that freedom, Christianity has flourished. Religious freedom requires that all be afforded the same freedom to assemble and worship as they see fit.

If a member, or group of members, of any religion breaks a federal, state or local law, they are arrested, tried and punished for that act within our secular justice system. It is the act that is punished, not the religion of the offender. I don’t find this confusing.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:31 am

Oh yeah, can one imagine kookman canvassing his neighborhood, dutifully knocking on each and every door, collecting collecting monies on behalf of the ADL before they made this statement? Such a strong adherent to their principles, I’ll betcha he was. Laid awake at night, ever fearful that some would propagandize against the Jewish people and even take up the cause of Islamic Terrorism against them. Aghast at such a thought he honestly was.

Meanwhile, back on Earth, aahhh, another chance to hate on the Jews, eh?

Giddy up, little racist.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:32 am

Ku Klux Klan souvenir shop at the Martin Luther King gravesite, anyone?

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:33 am

Step right up and show your tolerance, Aryan Nation volunteer day in downtown Birmingham?

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:35 am

I guess, since some Nazis were good, decent if not misguided people, then we should resurrect the Vice Chancellery in Tel Aviv.

Oh wait, wrong example, mustn’t give these haters any ideas, shees.

AmVet

July 31st, 2010
10:43 am

We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.

As so beautifully demonstrated here this morning by our more rabid contributors.

But think had a Christian Center experienced anything remotely close to this backlash! The worst of the worst would be slobbering about anti-Americanism, the degradation of society and the ever-popular, “LOOK AT US! WE’RE BEING PERSECUTED!” card.

This sad but irrefutable characteristic of America’s war-first, war-last, war-always gang (I mean we need a good old fashioned Crusade every couple of centuries, right Mr. Bush?) explains why they get such a small, many times tiny, percentage of the Jewish vote. Usually in the 5 – 15% range.

This fact is as plain as the nose on your face; American Jews deeply distrust you right-wingers and they repudiate your ideology of fake conservatism. Yet you “faithful” continue to act oblivious to this fact, and you will not touch the subject with a 3.084 meter pole.

And in all likelihood they will keep voting *overwhelmingly* against you, in spite of the ADL’s misstep.

Selah.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:44 am

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews
(killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The
stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me,
come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of
tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the
Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

kookman ain’t no Gharkad tree, rest assured.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:45 am

I don’t think very many MegaChurches are being built in mecca or medina, y’all, geez, can’t you people reason?

popeye

July 31st, 2010
10:45 am

Whine…..I guess this will ruin your day.

http://portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128053058899409700

I went to high school with Mike….good ball player, all sports. And at that time
his dad was the mayor!

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
10:49 am

pops- That hurts the libs more than it does the Cons.

Let the molester rant.

Del

July 31st, 2010
10:51 am

SoCo,

You can disagree with me and that’s okay with me, however, it won’t change the fact.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
10:52 am

Whiner obviously thinks that KKK, Nazi, Aryan, etc., are religions. Then again, perhaps they are to him, the devout one.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
10:54 am

Looks like the “cons” are the only ones hurting here. Their fear and hatred pain them so much.

popeye

July 31st, 2010
11:00 am

“Let the molester rant”

Whine he has never ranted! Besides he’s been cleared of all charges.

Looks like you cons will have to try something new. Perhaps you can pull a Paula Jones out of
your bag of toys.

BADA BING

July 31st, 2010
11:02 am

Ironically, the new mosque will be just a stone’s throw from Ground Zero.

Normal

July 31st, 2010
11:06 am

Is “The Inquirer a pseudonym for Fox? Seems the cons lost out on Popeye’s post. Their penchant for planting false stories on people who disagree with them as been found out again.

BTW:

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
10:04 am

Well said, well said indeed…

Normal

July 31st, 2010
11:07 am

Badda Bing,
If you can throw a stone two New York City blocks, why aren’t you playing outfield for the Yankees?

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
11:07 am

Del

I don’t even think it’s a “fact” as not all the Founding Fathers were Christians. As I said though, that’s a different conversation for a different day.

Saudi Arabia

International Religious Freedom Report 2005

Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

The country is a monarchy with a legal system based on Islamic law (Shari’a). Islam is the official religion, and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims. The Government does not provide legal protection for freedom of religion, and such protection does not exist in practice. The public practice of non-Muslim religions is prohibited. The Government recognizes the right of non-Muslims to worship in private; however, it does not always respect this right in practice and does not define this right in law.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51609.htm

The United States government, unlike Saudi Arabia, does not sanction an official religion. Therefore, US citizens have the freedom to practice their religion without fear of persecution unlike Saudis who practice any religion other than the official one.

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:07 am

For the Constitutionally-challenged among us:

“The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the government from discriminating against religion by restricting or burdening certain practices because of their religious nature. The Non-Establishment Clause prohibits the government from discriminating by favoring one religion over another. The Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection Clause protects against discrimination by state and local governments on the basis of religion and other beliefs, as well as on the basis of ethnicity and gender”

http://www.peo7.com/htmFiles/FREEDOM416.htm

I hope some of you fake conservatives on board will grow up one day.

Dusty

July 31st, 2010
11:08 am

The Muslims CAN build a mosque. They just can’t build it where or near an anti-American Muslim Terrorist Act occured. It is a matter of sensible zoning. Muslims can’t built a mosque on Times Square or in your backyard either. It’s the wrong place. The ADL realized all facts of that sensible conclusion and said so.

America WAS founded on Christian principles. One Christian principle is the belief that Christ is there for the choosing but not to be forced upon anyone. That is part of the freedom of religion in America. Christians writing a document saying all could choose their religion. They did not say that gave all religions property rights.
. .
Saying America principles are not based on Christianity or religion is like saying Israel was not founded on Hebrew religious principles.. They too realized freedom must come in all forms no matter who has the strongest influence.

Now all of you who are afraid some one is going to lure you into a church, synagogue or mosque, RELAX. You’ve got the freedom. Nobody is going to drag you kicking and screaming into a religious setting. So don’t mess up the scenery with unnecessary complaints about something that hasn’t happened. It makes you look….well…prejudiced and uninformed.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
11:09 am

The conservative message: “We gladly give up our freedoms in the name of Islam.”

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:12 am

For those who keep spouting about Christians not being like Muslims and causing Jihad… let me ask of you: Talk to me about Slavery. The “owning” of other humans… the beating, raping, and even at times murdering of them. Your own religion “condoned it”… I’m a huge fan of Jefferson’s… I recall going to his home in VA and while I was in Awe of the man and all he did (I remember just touching a chair he designed and built with his own hands)… and then I remembered that those same hands of his were at times laid upon “slaves” he “owned”… while still at awe of all he did for this nation (and the very founding of it)… it remains in my head and heart that he owned slaves as well.

After slavery was abolished…(and now going forward to the 1960’s): why did “Church going Christians” still make African Americans get on the back of the bus…drink from different water fountains?… refuse to serve them in their restaurants?… or allow them in their hotels/motels? Why did they still beat them rape them and at times kill them?

So for those who speak about Jihad loving Muslims… tell me about “slavery loving christians” as well… because when looking back at history…it was not that long ago. Those who talk about Muslims still “stoning” people… well how about White Christians who owned people and beat the piss out of them for not obeying their orders? Or raping the women slaves they “owned”… yup… they were true “christians” alright.

I’ll ask you a question: Did any of them make it to your “heaven”??? Did Jefferson go to “your” heaven? Even though he owned slaves and had sex with them?

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:12 am

“I don’t think very many MegaChurches are being built in mecca or medina, y’all, geez, can’t you people reason?”

And pray tell, Reporter, what does that have to do with the price of beans in China? Are you suggesting that we model ourselves after Saudi Arabia?

Grow up, please. Your ridiculous, bigoted, un-Constitutional rants do far more harm to the conservative movement than any liberal could hope to do in his/her wildest dreams.

Mick

July 31st, 2010
11:13 am

Greatest lesson learned from the dark ages to the renaissance, “separation of church and state”, uniquely american and 100% correct – don’t mess with success.

Speaking of the middle ages or even 100 years ago, something we take for granted, thank god for modern dentistry. I think that I can be pretty tough and have a high tolerance for pain but a throbbing toothache leaves me begging for mercy..

kayaker 71

July 31st, 2010
11:14 am

ADL,

No, the KKK, the Nazis and the Aryan League are not religions. Islam is not either. It is a terrorist organization with goals in mind that are strictly not religious in nature. It comes closer to the KKK and the Nazis than to any other “religion” that I can think of. Many things have been done over time in the name of “religion” and this is just one of them. Their intolerance, violence, indifference to others who do not agree with them, their insufferable treatment of women, their oppression and their goal of eliminating any opposition or criticism to their beliefs doesn’t make much of a “religion”. It is nothing more than oppression and dictatorial domination. And they don’t belong anywhere near ground zero.

BADA BING

July 31st, 2010
11:14 am

A $7,000,000 yacht (A) leaves RI on Tuesday, heading SSE at 22 nautical miles an hour, heading for the Bahamas. A private jet (B) leaves NC on Saturday morning, at 325 MPH heading SE, on a line intersecting yacht A moored in a marina in Freeport, the Bahamas. Now, figuring in the appropiate time zones, what time will John be serving martinis, and how many happy endings will Al have that weekend?

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:18 am

“They just can’t build it where or near an anti-American Muslim Terrorist Act occured. It is a matter of sensible zoning. Muslims can’t built a mosque on Times Square or in your backyard either. It’s the wrong place. The ADL realized all facts of that sensible conclusion and said so.”

Dusty, please explain to me how we go about determining what the “right place” or the “wrong place” is. Who has the authority to make such a determination?

Once again: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

No where in the Constitution does it say “as long as it doesn’t offend anyone”. If you give our elected officials the right to pick and choose which religions have the right to free expression and which don’t based upon their own prejudices, then we no longer are a nation of laws. Please explain how this would improve our country by giving select individuals the right to make laws based upon their own personal prejudices.

It pains me that so many self-identified conservatives are so willing to flush the Constitution down the drain when it doesn’t agree with their own biases.

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:18 am

Oh I forgot to add: were those the “christian principles” our nation was founded upon? Because Del said @ 9:30am: “he far-left doesn’t like to acknowledge that fact because it pains them deeply but this Republic was founded on Christian/Judeo principals and the evidence of that exits almost anywhere you go in the United States .”

Del… were those slaves part of the Christian/Judeo principles you speak of?

Mick

July 31st, 2010
11:18 am

BADA BING@11:14

I thought you guys idolized the rich? I forgot, they have to be republicans.

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
11:19 am

Dusty

If there’s a law stating that one can not build near an anti-American Muslim Terrorist Act, then that’s ok. If there’s no law, and the zoning commision approved the request almost unanimously, then it’s more emotional appeal than anything. I know there’s major emotions tied up in this whole debate, but what is getting lost is the fact that people are ready to trample on the 1st Amendment in the process.

One minute, we’re a nation of laws and the illegal immigrants got to go. The next minute, we’re denying Americans rights granted under the Constitution. Most people don’t see the fact that they are contradicting themselves.

AmVet

July 31st, 2010
11:19 am

Ku Klux Klan souvenir shop at the Martin Luther King gravesite, anyone?

So much material in one sentence…

Maybe they’d have this on sale there, Andy.

http://www.otrcat.com/racist-music-songs-of-bigotry-and-racial-intolerance-p-48900.html

Mick

July 31st, 2010
11:22 am

I believe the exact opposite; that our country was avoiding religious principles altogether. The constitution is mind numbingly secular – hence its brilliance, not only politically but theocratically.

BADA BING

July 31st, 2010
11:23 am

I am not a REP, I am an Independent, I vote for people not parties.

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:27 am

“I am not a REP, I am an Independent, I vote for people not parties.”

Not that I usually reply to your rants… but let me ask BB… tell me the last Dem you voted for…tell me the last person you voted for that did not have a “R” behind their name… go ahead and name the “people” you’ve voted for in the past 10 years without an “R” on their ticket.

Anti-Deformation League

July 31st, 2010
11:29 am

No, the KKK, the Nazis and the Aryan League are not religions. Islam is not either. It is a terrorist organization with goals in mind that are strictly not religious in nature.

Wow! Where to begin! The ignorance and hatred and fear must be oozing from your pores, kayaker.

midtownguy

July 31st, 2010
11:32 am

Southern Comfort, I have said that over and over. That the USA is not a Christian country. It is a religiously free one. Saudi Arabia, like England and Italy, have an official State religion. However, western countries with an official religion do allow others the freedom to practice their own (otherwise there would be no Baptist churches in London).

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
11:34 am

Bruno- You wouldn’t know Conservatism if you fell over it, you spineless wonder.

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:36 am

Dusty: “America WAS founded on Christian principles.”

Principles like owning, beating and raping slaves… because it was those same CHRISTIANS who “owned, beat, and raped” those slaves”…

Dusty…did those “founders” with “Christian principles” get a “pass” from your god and get into heaven?

AmVet

July 31st, 2010
11:40 am

So Islam is not a religion?

???

Islam is the monotheistic RELIGION articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of their one, incomparable God and by the Prophet of Islam Muhammad’s teachings and normative example (in Arabic called the Sunnah, demonstrated in collections of Hadith). Islam literally means “submission (to God).”

And yet in their zealous fervor to pollute the English language with their neolithic neologisms (Psychiatry – A new word, that is understood only by the speaker, occurring most often in the speech of schizophrenics.) , they also contend that “liberalism” and “secularism ARE religions.

yacker, could your mental masturbation get any more ridiculous than this?

Don’t answer, it’s a rhetorical question…

popeye

July 31st, 2010
11:41 am

Saul….Dusty reminds me of Sarah Palin. Way out of her league. Even when it’s as simple as blogging….Care to refudiate (sic) as Sarah says Dusty?

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
11:41 am

midtownguy

That’s a big distinction between the US and other countries too.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
11:41 am

Basic human decency dictates building a Mosque on the site of an atrocious attack done purely in the name of Islam, so of course the liberals come down on the side of the murderers and women stoners.

So typical.

Go spit on someone else’s grave, heathens.

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:42 am

“This “religion”, as it is so affectionately called, supports some of the worst acts of violence and depravity known to man.”

Read the Old Testament lately, kayaker? Here are a few of the offenses which deserve the death penalty according to the OT:

Premarital sex, making love to a virgin pledged to be married to another, the daughter of a priest practicing prostitution, rape of someone who is engaged (but if she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels), marrying a woman who is not a virgin, male homosexuality (the girls seem to get a free ride on this one), marrying a woman and her daughter, worshiping idols, blasphemy, breaking the Sabbath, practicing magic, being a medium or spiritualist, trying to convert people to another religion, non-priests going near the tabernacle when it is being moved, striking your parents, cursing your parents, being a stubborn and rebellious son, being a profligate and a drunkard, living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites…….

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Actions_which_demand_the_death_penalty_in_the_Old_Testament

In case you forgot, kayaker, the Q’ran is largely modeled after the Old Testament and draws upon the same ancient Middle Eastern practices. So, tell me again how Judaism/Christianity are so much better than Islam.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
11:42 am

dictates not, pardon me.

Dusty

July 31st, 2010
11:43 am

Sorry, SoCo,

But I think we have zoning laws for a reason. Everything about property is not defined in the constitution. For instance, there are many places unsuitable for building but someone may decide they want to build there. For instance, if someone wants to put a service station in the middle of your subdivison, zoning usually says NO. If someone wants to build a religious edifice in the middle of your subdivision, zoning usually says NO. That does not stop such building in other places. It simply indicates what is incompatible.at that particular place.

As I said before, I do not think that religious freedom gives any faith special property rights. If the people of NYC/zoning board do not think a mosque near a terrorist attack site is proper, I agree with them. Seems the ADL thinks so too. The mosque can still be built elsewhere.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

July 31st, 2010
11:44 am

Bruno- The New Testament establishes Christianity, the Old Testament does not.

Spineless and clueless, what a combo.

Del

July 31st, 2010
11:47 am

You’ve got to know that this thread has gone into deep LA LA land when you have the lib’s trying to depict themselves as defenders of the Constitution… What hypocrisy. Other things to do, y’all enjoy the day.

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:48 am

“Bruno- You wouldn’t know Conservatism if you fell over it, you spineless wonder.”

Conservatism = following the Constitution.

And if you consider your daily ration of hateful comments to be an example of how a good Christian should behave, then you are even more f-cked up then I’m giving you credit for. As I keep saying, you are a liberal’s dream. You discredit the conservative movement more than any of them could do in their wildest dreams.

Del

July 31st, 2010
11:49 am

Dusty,

caught your 11:43am just before I was going to log off. Great comments…I agree.

BADA BING

July 31st, 2010
11:50 am

Saul, calm down and do what you usually do.

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:50 am

“Bruno- The New Testament establishes Christianity, the Old Testament does not.”

Really? Then I guess you haven’t read the Bible much either in addition to being ignorant of what our Constitution says.

Are you really as stupid as you come across here on the blog, Reporter?

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:52 am

Dusty,
Do you agree with this?

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0528/radio-host-hopes-nyc-mosque-blown/

“Right-wing radio host ‘hopes’ NYC mosque gets blown up

The US’s largest Muslim advocacy group has filed a complaint with the FCC over what it says is a Houston radio talk show host who “advocated bombing a proposed New York City mosque.”

In a statement released Thursday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations said Michael Berry of KPRC 950 AM “made a call to violence” when he said he hoped someone would blow up the mosque being proposed for a location in lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks.

During an argument with a caller who supported the mosque’s construction, Berry said, “You can’t build a mosque at the site of 9/11. No you can’t. No you can’t. And I’ll tell you this — if you do build a mosque, I hope somebody blows it up. … I hope the mosque isn’t built, and if it is, I hope it’s blown up, and I mean that.”

“AND I MEAN THAT”…

And about those “slaves” and those who founded our nation being “Christians” and all…feel free whenever you’re ready to answer that too….

Saul Good

July 31st, 2010
11:53 am

BB… thanks for your answer…I’ll “ASSUME” from it that you’ve only voted for those with an “R” behind their name in the past 10 or so years… “Mr. Independent”….

Kamchak

July 31st, 2010
11:54 am

As I keep saying, you are a liberal’s dream.

Not this liberal’s dream.

That would be Jessica Alba. Just sayin’.

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
11:56 am

Dusty

I don’t think the zoning commision has voted yet, but I don’t see any legal standing they have for denying the zoning request. It’s all on emotional appeal. Emotions are very high and strained in this debate. If there are already other religious organizations operating in the area, the city of New York stands to get slapped with a discrimination lawsuit if they deny the request.

There’s also the fact that Americans are being denied their 1st Amendment rights. Suppose that someone wanted to put a gun range there and there was the same backlash. People would be all over the government for trying to squash the 2nd Amendment. Yet, I don’t hear many people asking everyone to stop and consider the 1st Amendment in this case. The 1st Amendment does not give property rights, but it does allow for the freedom to peacefully assemble and freedom of worship.

Normal

July 31st, 2010
11:56 am

Let’s see if I get this right…
We are founded on principles against religious persecution and and founded on the principle of religious freedom…but that’s only if it’s Christian/Judeo based…got it…

The truest statement here so far is SoCo’s when he said America was founded on the Masonic principle of an acknowledgement of a “Higher Power” that is over us all, but no recognition of a certain religion…hence, religious freedom. All you Theocrats out there are just going to have to keep baiting…

Normal

July 31st, 2010
11:58 am

SoCo, I think I read that New York voted on it and there was only one “nay”…I could be wrong, with my memory that’s quite possible…

BADA BING

July 31st, 2010
11:58 am

In the news this A.M. Al Gore will not be charged in this latest assault case. ANOTHER happy ending for Al !

Bruno

July 31st, 2010
11:59 am

“That would be Jessica Alba. Just sayin’.”

I’m with you on that one, Kamchak. ;-)

RW-(the original)

July 31st, 2010
11:59 am

What this site really needs is a story about that NYC mosque. Once we det that story finally reported here there’s a somewhat controversial former governor of Alaska you might want to look into.

Southern Comfort

July 31st, 2010
12:03 pm

Normal

I was trying to find that vote. I think it was 29-1 or something like that.

theyeshaveit

July 31st, 2010
12:04 pm

Bada Bing,

Have a guarana. That wakes up the body.