We are tinkering with our planet’s basic life support systems
I fully understand that by posting this, I will again provoke all of those who are emotionally and politically invested in denying global warming to assume the position.
We all know what the position is: Eyes squeezed shut, forefingers inserted firmly into ears, loudly chanting the slogans they’ve been taught to chant so that no portion of actual scientific knowledge is allowed to penetrate.
But let’s take a look anyway, because it’s our planet, and it’s important, and I have children, and I’m not going to give up hope that we may yet summon the decency, courage and wisdom to at least try to mitigate the worst impacts of what we are doing to ourselves.
The above chart comes from “The State of the Climate: 2009,” a report compiled by more than 300 scientists worldwide under the auspices of our own National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. As the report notes, it is the product not of computer models but of observed data.
As the chart demonstrates, global climate has been changing just as scientists have been predicting it would since back in the ’70s. As the report warns:
“Continued temperature increases will threaten many aspects of our society, including coastal cities and infrastructure, water supply and agriculture. People have spent thousands of years building society for one climate and now a new one is being created – one that’s warmer and more extreme.”
So far, “more than 90 percent of the warming that’s happened on earth during the past 50 years has gone into the oceans,” the report warns. The expected effects of such warming include rising sea levels, melting ice caps and stronger hurricanes.
But those may not be the most dire consequences, as another study published this week documents.
“A Dalhousie University-based study, published in the scientific journal Nature on Wednesday, suggested for the first time that microscopic marine algae known as “phytoplankton” have been declining globally – its population has decreased by roughly 40 percent since 1950 – because of rising sea surface temperatures and changing ocean conditions.
“This may well be one of the largest biological changes observed in recent times, simply because it affects most of the biosphere,” said study co-author Boris Worm.
Phytoplankton need both sunlight and nutrients to grow but warm oceans are limiting the amount of nutrients that are delivered from deeper waters to the ocean surface.
“Phytoplankton are a critical part of our planetary life-support system. They produce half of the oxygen we breathe . . . and ultimately support all of our fisheries,” he said.
He said the species is just as valuable to survival as “all plants on land combined.”
Isn’t that lovely? A single species of aquatic plant life — a fundamental building block of our ecosystem, as valuable to survival as all plants on land combined — has declined by more than 40 percent because of global warming.
As one more effort to break through the denial, I’ll leave you with this, also from “The State of the Climate in 2009.” Scientists identified 10 major metrics that would tell us how and whether the climate was changing. Every single one of those metrics is indicating significant and ongoing heating.
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335 comments Add your comment
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
11:28 am
Bruno – 11:19 – blame the media? if the media reports layoffs, is that a bad thing? or should they be cheerleaders??
I agree with you about the self-fulfilling prophesy (in economic terms, it’s called the Paradox of Thrift – people are afraid of a recession, so they cut back on spending, which causes more job loss … wash, rinse, repeat)
but, I think that it would be irresponsible of the media to ignore the economic warning signs
Jefferson
July 30th, 2010
11:28 am
The world used to be flat.
mm
July 30th, 2010
11:28 am
If you think it’s hot now, the sun is just now going back into it’s more active phase.
We need to vote out the wingdings in November and start taking care of business. Why they can’t seem to grasp the fact that hundreds of millions of cars each day belching pollutants into the atmosphere is a bad thing. Not to mention the factories and coal burning electric plants.
neo-Carlinist
July 30th, 2010
11:29 am
Rational Observer, actually CO2 is for pansies (plants). I am certainly not a “denier”. I simply don’t care and I take exception to any person (especially power-hungry politico and delusional tree huggers) who offer to ‘care’ on my behalf, or on behalf of mankind as a whole. see my earlier post. I’d much rather address squirrel over-population. as I have argued before, “climate change” is not the message, it’s the messenger.
josef nix
July 30th, 2010
11:29 am
BADA BING
@ 11:26
Yep.
Doggone
We know it, all right, but we, you and I, are not about to give up our material comforts to get there any time soon…we haven’t evolved that far yet…
mm
July 30th, 2010
11:29 am
“but, I think that it would be irresponsible of the media to ignore the economic warning signs”
Like they did under Bush.
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
11:30 am
neo and josef…. yes but remember one thing… those who deny global warming as being “real” are for the most part the very same one’s who deny “evolution” exists as well.
Regardless of if you believe if Global warming is REAL or not… I fail to see how ANYONE can think it’s simply okay to release anything we want into our air, water, and soil. That polluting is “okay” and comes with no harmful consequences to those which all things living that share this planet. Why is it that the very ones who deny that global warming exists and that care not about polluting our air/water/soil… talk so much about the “debt” we’re leaving our kids/grand kids… but they don’t care one bit about the pollution they leave behind for their kids… they don’t care that it will be them who have to clean up the mess…and spend money doing so… who may drink foul water for their whole lives…
Personally… my own belief is that those who don’t care about pollution (as opposed to just global warming)… are the very ones who believe in the rapture coming and that no matter what we do to the planet…that they’re one day leaving it and going to a “better” place. I guess their concept of “heaven” has no pollution. All that goes on up there is “pollution free”…. and how would they know that? It’s in the chapter on “pollution” in their good book.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
11:30 am
mm – 11:29 – I lay that at the feet of the Alan Greenspan cultists …
RW-(the original)
July 30th, 2010
11:32 am
It’s funny how the triple L’s complain one day that we have no jobs because we make no products and then shift into blaming our factories when the talk turns to global warming.
Moderate Line
July 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Republicans and conservatives avoid climate reality.
Democrats and liberals avoid fiscal reality.
josef nix
July 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Saul
Do you drive an internal combustion engine?
And yes, the Good Book does have several such chapters, the Adam and Eve allegory being one of the first…
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
11:35 am
“We know it, all right, but we, you and I, are not about to give up our material comforts to get there any time soon…we haven’t evolved that far yet”
At this point, I don’t think that’s the issue. I think we’re still at the point where we can say “how can we maintain, or even improve” our comforts with some OTHER energy source”
Moderate Line
July 30th, 2010
11:35 am
Good post Jay. I have not check the reliabilty of the data. The best data indicates that global warming is occuring and it is most likely caused by humans. Emphasis on most likely.
Science still requires sketicism which is where I deviate from most liberals and democrats on demanding adherence to the orthodoxy.
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
11:36 am
Two quick observations.Both form AmVet’s same old song and dance file.
Not one single scientific institution of renown anywhere in the world denies AGW. Not one. The list is incredibly long and irrefutably prestigious. And in spite of the lamebrain assertions otherwise by the least cogent, these are not quack johnny-come-lately outfits. They are the very best of the best. The acknowledged experts. The Nobel Prize winners. The brightest minds to be found. And they are overwhelmingly allied in the belief that is is unquestionably man’s combined overuse of fossil fuels, eradication of the rain forests that are the PRIMARY cause of this warming.
And even more ignoratn, is theis constant canard being trotted out that they are all doing it for the money. Yeah, riiight! These most prestigious institutions in the world with longstanding track records of amazing discovery and scientific excellence are all going to throw those impeccable reputations down the drain, by purposely misconstruing the moutains of data and facts and evidence they’ve collected, independently of each other, so as to merely embarrass people with no scientific training.
Are you folks related to the second gunman on the grassy knoll?
Also, remember it has only been in the last couple of years that the majority of the deniers have even acknowledged that the increase in temperatures is even real. And there is still a significant number of them who even agree with this irrefutable and basic premise.
Secondly and even more damning is that in spite of years to prove otherwise, AGW has not been countermanded nor trumped by another superior theory. In fact, the deniers do not have anything remotely close to an explanation. Just straw men, red herrings and assorted wild ass guesses. as promulgated by mental midgets like Rush.
And for those who don’t understand the scientific method, this is how science works. Best the best theory to date, or quit whining…
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:38 am
“In an unbounded universe EVERYONE is at the center of it!”
Doggone–I have to throw you a bone for making a very profound statement. I’m not sure if you truly understand the geometry that goes into that statement, but it is a true statement, nonetheless. It all comes down to dimensions and our perceptions of them. If an ant crawled along the surface of the Earth, it would believe that the surface of the Earth is boundless in a two-dimensional sense. The center of curvature in a three-dimensional sense (i.e. the center of the Earth) is inaccessible to the ant. Moving up one more dimension, any center of curvature in a fourth-dimensional or higher-dimensional sense is inaccessible to we humans, since we can only perceive three dimensions. There is a famous book called “Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions” from the late 1800s which gives us a few clues.
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
11:40 am
Fine! There’s plenty of environment that needs cleaning right here in Atlanta. A letter writer to the AJC this morning said the Six Flags exit was a disgrace. Trash, potholes, weeds, cans, signs, and ruined roads was the inviting picture at that exit.
So there you go! A goal all laid out for you! Hurry, you sit-home environmentalists. Get out there and lower the temp!! WHAT? You wanted somebody else to do it? Nawwww….We’ll clean up chemical waste later. Let’s start HERE.
USinUK, you are excused from this Atlanta project.. You can take over the Green Parks of London by the river. Go for it!!
Wes
July 30th, 2010
11:41 am
Jay,
The real question you probably ought to ask is how much we can really impact this. We’re responsible for 20% of the world’s carbon emissions. Do you honestly think that China is going to let pollution get in the way of economic progress? Do you think India isn’t going to produce greater and greater levels of emissions? What about the rest of the world? If we can half our output how long do you think it’ll be before the world makes up the difference?
If you think it’ll make a difference what do you want to do to solve this? We’re unwilling to switch over to nuke (I believe you were even against subsidizing GA Power on this). If we were willing, we won’t accept any place to dump the waste. Solar is mainly good for growing plants (A laudable purpose but less than effective for keeping the house cool) . Most coastal communities are unwilling to forgo tourism dollars to install wind turbines. If we’re unwilling to do any of these things what hope does conservation have.
Jay there isn’t a free lunch. What costs do you think the American people will accept?
josef nix
July 30th, 2010
11:42 am
Doggone
I’m not limiting those creature comforts to just energy sources…that may be our focus these days, but the destruction of the rain forrests, unfettered urban sprawl, etc. have more impact in the long run than the consumption of fossil fuels in our habitat undoing,,,
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:42 am
“but, I think that it would be irresponsible of the media to ignore the economic warning signs”
According to you, we’re growing again. Yet day after day, I only see bad economic news being reported. Where’s Reagan when we need him to restore some confidence to our country??
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
11:44 am
josef…. yes I do… but my car gets well above average gas mileage… but in doing the “best” I can personally… I have solar panels which provide all of my hot water and suppliment my electric, I have a geothermal heat pump (which cools and heats my home)… is use no pesticides or fertilizers on my property…and on top of that I’m vegan (which even uses LESS energy since my food requires much less water, power, chemicals, and produces very little waste…though I’m vegan for animal rights issues)…
Perfect? No… but a much smaller footprint compared to most.
I’m simply not prepared to become the Uni-Bomber and live in a 1 room hut somewhere… with no power or running water…well not at least yet.
booger
July 30th, 2010
11:46 am
I’ve been aroud a long time, I’ve had to fear:
Nuclear winter, Global cooling brought to you by the same scientific community that now claim global warming, The Great Lakes dying with claims that it would take a century to repair the damage, Y2K hysteria, and currently the fear of oil coated beaches all the way up the east coast.
Well global cooling actually cured itself apparently, commercial fishing is now taking place in the Great lakes, Y2K proved totally overblown, and clean up crews are having a hard time finding oil to clean up in La and Miss.
It is hard not to be skeptical.
Rational Observer
July 30th, 2010
11:46 am
Deniers do not offer sound skepticism. They only offer confounded criticism. Baseless bloviating. The concepts that one must grasp to even begin to understand global warming are well beyond their reach so they do what they are capable of doing. They deny. So, I say again, Jay, you waste your time. Let’s talk about the existence of God instead. These deniers can surely provide proof positive of their supreme being’s existence for it is written. It has even evolved into a truly perfect form. They call it the King James version.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:48 am
“Not one single scientific institution of renown anywhere in the world denies AGW. Not one. The list is incredibly long and irrefutably prestigious. And in spite of the lamebrain assertions otherwise by the least cogent, these are not quack johnny-come-lately outfits. They are the very best of the best. The acknowledged experts. The Nobel Prize winners. The brightest minds to be found.”
AmVet, my dear friend, you are making a logical fallacy known as “Appeal to Authority”..
“And even more ignoratn, is theis constant canard being trotted out that they are all doing it for the money. Yeah, riiight! ”
It wouldn’t be the first time, my friend. At some level, economics certainly drives the agenda.
“And for those who don’t understand the scientific method, this is how science works. Best the best theory to date, or quit whining…”
The History of Science is full of discarded ideas. Though you may accept that anthropogenic global warming is a slam-dunk scientifically, I’m not as convinced. I quoted Alex Filippenko above as saying that we really don’t know the truth and that more studies need to be done. trust me, he’s a lot smarter than either you or I.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:49 am
“The concepts that one must grasp to even begin to understand global warming are well beyond their reach so they do what they are capable of doing.”
Are you claiming to know something, Rational Observer?? I’ll eat your lunch any day of the week when it comes to Science.
josef nix
July 30th, 2010
11:50 am
Saul
I’m not being snarky here, so please don’t take it that way because I would say the same thing about myself. You say, “yes, I do…but…” And we wind up, once again, with an excuse for our sins..I can say that I do NOT drive and internal combustion engine and feel ever so good about it…but..I eat my red meat and keep my summer thermostat below and my winter thermostat above the sensible limits…
Now. your geo-thermal heat pump…where was it produced, what products went into its construction which came from not so green sources…?
neo-Carlinist
July 30th, 2010
11:50 am
Saul, as I said, “If one were to objectively and dispassionately (see: religion) study history, he/she would accept that humans are the greatest threat to the ecosystem and the species. It’s called progress and technology, and if we want to eat omelettes, we’re going to break lots of eggs.” the rapture is coming (lower case R), but it will have nothing to do with the Book of Revelations, 4 Horsemen, or any “beasts” with 666 on their heads. It will be due to the scarcity of potable water and food, gluttonous consumption of all resources, and the self-fulfilling prophesies of the aforementioned snake jugglers and Bible thumpers who will cite god (not Karl Rove) as the “architect” of mankind’s demise.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
11:51 am
Bruno – ohgoodgod, REAGAN??? you realize that he presided over 2 recessions, don’t you?
We are in growth, again – but unemployment is still high, the housing market is still a mess – you can’t ignore those things, either.
unfortunately, too many people see those elements as the entire picture rather than pieces of the pie
We are tinkering with our planet’s basic life support systems – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) : doing-it-green.com
July 30th, 2010
11:52 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:53 am
“Personally… my own belief is that those who don’t care about pollution (as opposed to just global warming)… are the very ones who believe in the rapture coming and that no matter what we do to the planet…that they’re one day leaving it and going to a “better” place.”
Which merely proves that personal belief is unreliable……
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
11:56 am
“trust me, he’s a lot smarter than either you or I.”
Isn’t this exactly the same logical fallacy? And “appeal to authority”?
Scout
July 30th, 2010
11:56 am
Jay:
Have you ever thought about like being a Czar or something?
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:57 am
“unfortunately, too many people see those elements as the entire picture rather than pieces of the pie”
My point being that one of the most important functions of any leader is to “inspire the troops”. I don’t know about you, but Obama is likely the least inspiring leader we’ve had in my life time. Simply put, the man doesn’t know what he’s doing, along with Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd. All of the major legislation passed so far–Health Care Reform, Credit Card Reform, Banking Reform–is loaded with unintended consequences which will bite us in the butt for years to come.
Rational Observer
July 30th, 2010
11:58 am
Bruno,
I see you like to huff and puff. What studies have you done. Any data gathering. Publish any papers. I would simply love to read your works. Are they published in NATURE perhaps.
neo-Carlinist
July 30th, 2010
11:58 am
AmVet, as stated, I am not a denier. I do believe there are those who would exploit the reality of climate change (as noted by the endless number of scientists and experts) for non-scientific gain (power and wealth). this is one of Granny’s ‘goose gander’ situations. i,e; there are those who would exploit the reality of “terrorism” and/or “fanatical Islam” for their own non-national security gain. ergo, as with climate change “I don’t care” about terrorists or Islam. or more accurately, I am skeptical of a “government solution”.
Jay
July 30th, 2010
11:58 am
No “appeals to authority,” says Bruno, who then goes on to appeal to Alex Filippenko, because “trust me, he’s a lot smarter than either you or I.”
So let’s see:
Alex Filippenko, an astronomer whose specialties include “supernovae, active galaxies, black holes, gamma-ray bursts, and the expansion of the Universe,” vs. every major scientific organization on the planet, including meterologists, climatologists, atmospheric chemistry, atmospheric physics, paleo-climatology….
Hmmm. Which way should we go here? Which appeal to authority carries more weight?
Jay
July 30th, 2010
11:59 am
Scout: What makes you think I’m NOT?
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
11:59 am
“Isn’t this exactly the same logical fallacy? And “appeal to authority”?
Just fighting fire with fire, Doggone. AmVet claimed that every legitimate Scientist alive today are all in agreement re: anthropogenic global warming. I provided a counter-example. In Science, it only requires one counter-example to disprove a theory.
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
“AmVet claimed that every legitimate Scientist alive today are all in agreement ”
Actually, no he didn’t. If you’re going to quote someone…try doing it accurately. You shoot your argument in the foot if you don’t.
What he ACTUALLY said is: “Not one single scientific institution of renown anywhere in the world denies AGW”
INSTITUTIONS, not scientists
Scout
July 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
Jay:
You’re not in D.C.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
Jay–see above^^^^
In case you didn’t know, meteorology and climatology are inexact sciences. How many times is the weather forecast wrong here in Atlanta, particularly in regards to when it is going to rain or not? If these guys can’t tell me with any accuracy what the weather is going to be like in 10 days, I’m not accepting their predictions for the next hundred years.
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
12:03 pm
Bruno, the problem with your Appeal to Authority indictment is that these people ARE the legitimate, recognized experts and authorities on the subject. If not, correct me and tell me who, pray tell instead of them, is?
Money is not always the underlying motivation. That argument is cynical and without merit, unless someone shows me this supporting evidence to support that oft-used claim. Whee are the secret payoffs? Where are the clandestine bribes. Who is extorting who? Most of this is completely fabricated.
In industry and commerce, of course money is the de facto god. In science, not nearly so much. Many who have advanced human knowledge by quantum leaps, have labored in obscurity and near poverty for long periods of their lives to better and better understand mankind’s and the earth’s condition.
And IF this theory is discarded, fine. I have repeatedly written that I am not 100% convinced.
But unless and until a superior answer is found, those especially that discount it out of hand strictly from ignorance, an irrational loathing of all things liberal and academic and ideologically driven myopia are just p*ssing in the wind. And getting very soggy pant legs…
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
“INSTITUTIONS, not scientists”
And exactly what are these INSTITUTIONS composed of if not Scientists??? Kind of like the non-acceptance of corporate personhood by Jay and the Lib contingency here. I have yet to find a corporation that wasn’t composed of people, and only people.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
Bruno – sorry, bubba, we just survived 8 years of a cheerleader – I’d rather have a workhorse at the helm than someone up there saying “goooooooooooTEAM!”
Paulo977
July 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
Very simply put!!
http://rainforests.mongabay.com/0907.htm
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
josef…I know where you’re coming from (and what it takes to “produce” things like solar panels, etc)… but my school of thought is that this is NOT like a traffic ticket vs. being an illegal immigrant. My belief is that if everyone used 10% – 20% less energy and maybe sprayed down their lawns with amphibian killing pesticides once a year instead of 4 times or more…that collectively we’d make a difference. (and BTW…I personally think lawns are nothing but a “waste” to begin with as well… one can have ground vegetation that can keep runoff and erosion at bay without having a water wasting chemically enhanced lawn)…. If one really does not need a Full Sized Yukon to drive only themselves to and from work in an office each day…but could make do with a vehicle that will get them to work using half the amount of fuel… I DO see how the more people that do that the better off we ALL are in the end. Of course all here are free to drive what they want… I mean I’ll go as far as saying does somebody REALLY need to have 5 or 6 kids? Less humans = less consumption…but again..all are free to do as they wish.
To each there own…just like I don’t push my vegan beliefs upon anyone…I don’t ask others to live as I do… but there’s nothing wrong with me shaking my head as I go past those who simply “don’t care”… not to them… it’s their life… but it’s also their kids playing and digging in those pesticides on their lawn as well…
neo @ 11:50am… I hear ya!
Scout
July 30th, 2010
12:06 pm
Now ………. if you want to talk about “Global Warming” !
2 Peter 3:10
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
USinUK 11:21
I am reading from the first report on International/National economic news today on AJC.com. This is what it reported:
“Recovery lost momentum as grow slowed to a 2.4 % pace, its most sluggish in nearly a year and too weak to drive up employment.”
If you think that is an optimistic report, I don’t.
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
“And exactly what are these INSTITUTIONS composed of if not Scientists??? ”
Come on, give me a break. An organization can agree that something is valid without ALL of it’s associates ALSO agreeing. It’s the consensus that matters.
Jay
July 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
Bruno, these people began telling us 35 years ago what the climate was going to do, which as you note is a very difficult task.
The fact that since then, it has behaved exactly as they predicted ought to earn them considerable credibility from anyone willing to look at the issue honestly.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
“Bruno, the problem with your Appeal to Authority indictment is that these people ARE the legitimate, recognized experts and authorities on the subject. If not, correct me and tell me who, pray tell instead of them, is?”
Legitimate and recognized by whom??
“Money is not always the underlying motivation. That argument is cynical and without merit, unless someone shows me this supporting evidence to support that oft-used claim. Whee are the secret payoffs? Where are the clandestine bribes. Who is extorting who? Most of this is completely fabricated.”
Buddy, it all comes down to grant money from the NSA and universities. If you don’t believe that politics plays a large part in who gets the money or not, I’ve got some lake-front property in Iowa to sell you. (oops, the lake washed away a few days ago).
“an irrational loathing of all things liberal and academic and ideologically driven myopia are just p*ssing in the wind. And getting very soggy pant legs…”
The association of legitimate scientific skepticism with a particular ideology is pure bunk, my friend. I think you’ve been around the blog long enough to know that I don’t believe in mythology in any way, shape or fashion.
Scout
July 30th, 2010
12:12 pm
“OFF TOPIC #1″
Local Headline: “Woman Admits To Having Sex With On-Duty Doraville (aka DoraNam) Officer”
“A woman named Courtney said she slept with a Doraville police officer multiple times while he was on-duty. She and her husband, Louis, are speaking out so that the police officer is held accountable for his actions ………….. Louis said he thinks the officer is misusing his authority and thinks he should be fired.”
Hey Louis: Don’t you think maybe ……….. oh, nevermind.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
12:12 pm
Dusty – GDP is measured quarter on quarter, which means that, if you have a strong quarter, you have a high base effect (in other words – if you grow from 10-15 in one quarter, that’s 50% growth – grow from 15-20 the next quarter, that’s only 30% growth because you have a larger base) … we had monster growth in Q4 (around 6%), then 3.7% growth in Q2 – great numbers, but that kind of pace would be difficult to maintain without businesses hiring and consumers spending.
this is moderate growth, but it is still a 4th quarter of growth and that is what is important.
neo-Carlinist
July 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
AmVet – you wrote: “…Money is not always the underlying motivation. That argument is cynical and without merit…”, money is not the underlying motivation for the climate change alarmists, and my position is most definitely cynical, but my position is not “without merit”. I believe Al Gore is a perfect example. I think his initial motivation was not financial (accepting he is a HUGE consumer of fossil fuel, and as a politician, he “authorized” the introduction of unmeasurable amounts of greenhouse gas into the environment). But, sincere or hypocritical, the fact that he became the “hired gun” (lobbyist) for a venture capital firm that will earn BILLIONS from cap and trade, is no more in question than the findings of the “experts” you cite. I’m not ready to make allegations or seek “evidence” of bribes or pay-offs, but it is the very nature of man to exploit “issues” for power and $$$. again, 9/11 led to the Patriot Act and the emergence of Blackwater/Xe as a mercenary army. these unintended (or perhaps intended) consequences of the “war on terrorism” are very real. for my money, it’s not a question of the “science” of climate change (it’s happening). it’s a question of how does America’s response to this natural “consequence” of human activity in the ecosystem effect my life?
TGT
July 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
We’ve warmed, GASP!, a WHOLE DEGREE!
So tell me Warmers, since congress is essentially going to do nothing about greenhouse gasses, how warm are we going to get? And how “devastating” is this going to be?
In fact, since we have been warming for 50 years, how much more dangerous is it living in today’s world vs. 50 years ago? And since we have seen a 40% decrease in phytoplankton in the last 60 years, surely there would be signs of “devastating” consequences in our ecosystem? But, alas, no. Life today continues on pretty much the same as it did 50 or 60 years ago.
I too have children (4). What scares me more and, I believe, would be more dangerous for my children are the “solutions” that you Warmers propose for this looming disaster that is always conveniently down the road. It’s like curing someone’s cold by giving them cancer. It’s madness. And more and more scientists are saying so.
Peadawg
July 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
“The fact that since then, it has behaved exactly as they predicted ought to earn them considerable credibility from anyone willing to look at the issue honestly.”
And so did a lot of things happened that God predicted…but people still don’t believe Him.
Scout
July 30th, 2010
12:14 pm
Sorry Jay ………. that was #2. Need a fresh thread when you get time.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:14 pm
“Bruno, these people began telling us 35 years ago what the climate was going to do, which as you note is a very difficult task.”
jay–Apparently you are forgetting the dire pronouncements from the Jimmy Carter era that we were heading straight for another Ice Age.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling
Did you forget, or are you overlooking that because it didn’t pan out?
RW-(the original)
July 30th, 2010
12:17 pm
Your “workhorse” is about to give his daily speech, from Detroit this time.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
12:18 pm
RW – I’m sure you miss your cheerleader who only spoke before hand-picked GOP audiences …
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
12:19 pm
Actually Jay… many of the things they’ve predicted are happening FASTER.
Scout@ 12:06pm
EXACTLY! (why bother trying to protect the earth when there’s already a “plan” to do away with it)? Well that’s at least what “Peter” said anyway…right?
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
12:20 pm
all right, my friendlies … I’m catching the 5:45 …
have a great weekend!
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:20 pm
Bruno is correct. And….AmVet is extravagantly carried away as usual;.
Universities are staffed by scientists and other wise men. But universities are not the only places for observations by wise men.. There are any number of scientists who do not believe in the Current Human Cause Damage to Eenvironment/ Earth Warming Etc. Theories.
One of them is Stephen Wilde who is a Fellow at the Royal Meteorlogical Society since 1968. He and many others dismiss the major parts of such theories. Go to Google and you will find the names of many more scientists who are not wasting their time on improbable theories.
It would seem that those who can receive funds or make money on enviro adjustments are the ones who prefer to believe Human Global warming and such. They merrily attack those who supply us with our energy needs. Al Gore is one of them. There are others..
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
12:21 pm
USinUK… don’t bother tryin g to explain those things to Dusty… she’s simply doing what Rush and some of her other leaders have been doing since day one: Rooting for Obama to FAIL instead of actually giving a crap about the country.
RW-(the original)
July 30th, 2010
12:21 pm
RW – I’m sure you miss….
USinUK,
You really have no future in the mind reading biz. Time to move on dontchathink?
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 30th, 2010
12:21 pm
Jay, Jay, Jay, how hysterical you are today.
Now lookey here, the planet warms and cools in cycles. the “warmest ever recorded” is meaningless because almost everything was not recorded.
The issue here is not whether temps have gone up, but, rather if the lost its ability to self regulate and there is not evidence to that effect. that’s where the stupid computer models come in – GIGO.
Let’s look back a few weeks. I told the liberals here that based obn my personal experience of the Ixtoc, the Deepwater Horizon spill would not be a big deal. Evryone of the liberals screamed about the scientists and the models and how bad the spill was going to be. The flow hasn’t even been staunched for one week and every stripe of media is beginning to report that the spill doesn’t look too bad.
Same thing here, a little common sense would cause one to put this global warming canard out with the trash.
@@
July 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
jay, if you haven’t yet figured out what a scam artist, Al Gore is, and has always been, there’s nothing I can do to convince you.
Watched an awesome show on The History Channel last night…How The Earth Was Made — The Ring of Fire
Volcanic substructs on the ocean floor spewing forth temperatures above 700 degrees? Talk about oceans heating up? There’s actually sea creatures that thrive near those fissures. I’ve bookmarked a slew of sites so I can find out more. Fascinating stuff…FASCINATING!!!!
The Ring of Fire is bringing about continental drift that’ll push southern California into Alaska. The deadly earthquakes that devastate millions of lives are actually the earth’s natural rebuilding process.
I’ll go with tectonic shifts ’cause Al Gore has always rubbed me the wrong way. The only man creating global warming is he.
A little light reading: The Delicate Balance Fraud in Global Warming Propoganda
USUK:
I’m not looking for a new gig.
RW-(the original)
July 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
I’m catching the 5:45
I’m good at this.
jconservative
July 30th, 2010
12:23 pm
Couple of thoughts………
For discussion lets say Jay is 100% correct and global warming is about to destroy the human race. Does anyone really, honestly, think they can get the various competing political, social & religious interest groups together & solve the problem?
Extinction events are not an unusual occurrence on planet Earth. They have happened fairly often since the creation/development (you pick the word) of life on the planet. 444 million years ago the Ordovician extinction destroyed most life on the planet. 360 million years ago the late Devonian extinction destroyed about 70% of all life on the planet. 251 million years ago the Permian-Triassic extinction destroyed 96% of marine species and 70% of terrestrial species. 200 million years ago the Triassic-Jurassic extinction destroyed 20 % of all marine life and all large amphibians. 65 million years ago the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction destroyed 50% of all species. And so it goes.
So now science is saying we are on the edge of another “event”. The question is, is it an “extinction” event? Unfortunately, or fortunately if that is your mindset, we will not know until it is too late to make a difference.
The problem is a majority of 6.8 billion people must be convinced. Some do not believe anything said by anyone in authority. Some will say it is the “will of god” and accept their fate. Some will blame the liberals or conservatives, whichever they dislike.
But I assure you nothing will be done.
Hey, I managed to write this without expressing an opinion. Wow!
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
Know what Dusty? You’ll find a handful of scientists who also believe that the world is 6,000-10,000 years old… of course you’ll find a few who don’t subscribe to the facts of global warming…but trust me…they are far, far FAR in the minority. The overwhelming majority and belief of the scientific community is that Global warming is REAL…that human have harmed our planet and atmosphere…and that they continue to do so at a rapid pace.
Intown
July 30th, 2010
12:25 pm
The greatest tragedy of the Obama presidency — pissing away all his political capital and a 2 year time period with Executive and Legislative Branches firmly in Dem control on …. healthcare reform instead of saving the freakin’ planet!!
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 30th, 2010
12:27 pm
Well, this global warming junk is just a scam to make companies pay and trade carbon credits and drive up prices. It’s just a sneaky way of passing a tax increase, only they won’t call it a tax. That’s what my buddy Jim Earl says and Jim Earl is smart.
If the greeny-weenies had their way, we’d all be driving cheap, junky Chevy Cavaliers and drinking our beer out of paper cups.
So Bookman and his ilk can rattle on all they want to and I won’t hear them.
Have a good p.m. everybody. All I know is it’s hot out here and that’s the way God wants it. If you got a problem with the heat, write in to Sonny and maybe him and a bunch of preachers can get together and pray for a cold spell. But you only got a few more months to do the writing. I don’t know if it will do any good if old Nathan or the Handel woman get to be guvner. I don’t even know if they’re Baptists.
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:28 pm
I think USinUK should write the economic news for AJC.com. Seems their thoughts of progress are not the same. Twist and turn and get what you want. Then say that it is GOOD!!
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
@@
12:22 pm
“I’m not looking for a new gig.”
Ol’ Wyld Byll’s got some broad shoulders on which you can cry. Not to mention contacts and inroads that can make your dreams, even the most intimate, come true.
Like Delta, I’m ready when you are.
RW-(the original)
July 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
OK kidz, time for me to head to the forest. This is perhaps the hundredth or so AGW thread here and you gullible fear mongers don’t appear to have advanced your position one iota.
Later!
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
RedNeck…”I don’t even know if they are Baptists.”
Well, I don’t even know if Redneck is human. There’s a lot of talk here about evolution. Could it be there are a few going BACKWARDS??
Anyway, if everybody drove a good reliable Cavalier there would be enough gasoline for all the Chinese to get off their bicycles and vroom off into the smog!! That would be cavalier!!!
,
Jay
July 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
Bruno, did you even take the time to read that Wiki post you just linked?
It pretty much demolishes the claim that you attempt to make. Among many other things, it notes:
“Although there was a cooling trend then, climate scientists were aware that predictions based on this trend were not possible – because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[11]). However in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports.”
It was mere conjecture at the time, scientists admitted it was mere conjecture, and once they actually began to study the issue it was established that the conjecture was groundless. Science worked as it should: They had a conjecture, tested it, and rejected it.
Now, what about the work of the last 35 years, which time and again CONFIRMS rather than rejects anthropogenic climate change?
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
Apologies in advance for going off topic, but I’m hoping Scout can answer the ten questions posed in this video regarding our “Loving God”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3VAEYEG53w
For convenience, here they are:
(1) Why won’t God heal amputees?
(2) Why are there so many starving people in our world?
(3) Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
(4) Why does the Bible contain so much anti-Science nonsense?
(5) Why is God such a strong proponent of slavery in the Bible?
(6) Why do bad things happen to good people?
(7) Why didn’t any of Jesus’s miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?
(8) How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
(9) Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?
(10) Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
Just curious, buddy.
@@
July 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
Byll:
Thanks! YOU’RE in my favorites too.
(IW&SH)
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
B, you must feel infinitely better now that Dusty has weighed in on the matter!
Mon ami, unlike her, your views are not myopic, nor ideologically driven.
There simply is no comparison.
Many (most?) of the deniers in this country hate liberals. And by proxy, they hate academia, “liberal” education and particularly science that does not dovetail with their fervent mythology. (Think evolution). From what I have seen, that is their sole reason for their position.
And again, without evidence of this vast left wing conspiracy to make money off of knowingly faulty science, I am extremely skeptical of this claim. Who wouldn’t be? And why? Because to date, I have never seen the first scintilla of evidence to support this extremely broad brushed claim of vast collusion based on a few pieces of silver. Nor do I ever expect any.
If this contrived conspiracy is so enormous, the damning paper trail must very long. Yet…
I do not indict all non-adherents.
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 30th, 2010
12:37 pm
During the 9th & 10th centuries the Vikings reached Iceland and Greenland during the milder condition that prevailed during Medieval Warm Period. Norse settlers arrived in Iceland in the 9th and Greenland in the 10th century with an agricultural practice based on milk, meat and fibre from cattle, sheep, and goats. The settlers were attracted by green fields and a relatively good climate and driven there by population pressures in Scandinavia. They were able to sail to Iceland and Greenland as well as Labrador because of a decrease in sea ice in the North Atlantic.
At that time, the inner regions of the long fjords where the settlements where located were very different from today. Excavations show that there were considerable birch woods with trees up to 4 to 6 meters high in the area around the inner parts of the Tunuliarfik- and Aniaaq-fjords, the central area of the Eastern settlement, and the hills were grown with grass and willow brushes.
Today it is covered in ice and snow.
As well as our columnist being covered in slobber.
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:39 pm
Wyld Byll is so full of byll! I guess that is what makes him fun to read. Too bad @@ already has some broad shoulders on which to cry!
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 30th, 2010
12:41 pm
Eyes squeezed shut, forefingers inserted firmly into ears, loudly chanting the slogans they’ve been taught to chant so that no portion of actual scientific knowledge is allowed to penetrate.
Yep, and smart enough not to place our thermometers into the path of heat sources like air conditioner exhausts or kookman’s mouth, a simple step necessary to knowing what the actual temperature is.
Independent
July 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
Meanwhile, the radical leftist environmentalists in SFO are complaining about the extended record setting cold temperatures out there.
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
Dusty
12:39 pm
If one does not express his caring and willingness to assist, how would the other know to think of him when the moment arrives?
You have got to get up pretty darn early to outwork ol’ Wyld Byll.
ATF
July 30th, 2010
12:45 pm
Granny at 10:35: “On the June 5 edition of Fox News’ Glenn Beck, guest host and Fox News senior judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano mischaracterized a year-old NASA report on solar variability to deny that humans are causing global warming.”
Thanks for that.
It was Glenn Beck and Fox News, folks. When will people get it that Fox doesn’t do “news” they do propoganda. And Fox, Beck, et alia are loved by the “Drill, baby, drill” crowd and “clean coal” lobbyists. They play to their audience and the truth doesn’t matter to them.
Dusty
July 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
Oh boo hoo, AmVet, and would you ike to compare university credentials and degrees? Or would you just like to mouth off as you usually do ?.
What was it you sell? AmWay or Avon? Besides baloney, that is.. I wish you all good luck. But you need a new hobby.
Bruno
July 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
“Although there was a cooling trend then, climate scientists were aware that predictions based on this trend were not possible – because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[11]). However in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports.”
Jay–Every statement you make regarding today regarding global warming had its converse in the 1970s regarding global cooling. Then, like now, climatology is a poorly understood subject. Then, like now, the popular press has seized upon the issue without any true understanding. Are you a climatology expert??? I don’t believe so, but it hasn’t prevented you from running column after column declaring it a slam-dunk scientifically.
I side with Alex Filippenko on this issue. We need to study the topic more before declaring it an irrefutable fact. That’s all. I’m not declaring myself an expert, nor do I accept that anyone else is one. Does that mean we should continue to pollute our planet without regard to the consequences? Heck no. BTW, your disqualification of Filippenko as not being able to state an intelligent opinion on the matter is specious at best. I believe his knowledge of how the Universe as a whole operates gives him a much larger “Big Picture” credibility than the more narrowly focused climatologists can provide. Just my own personal opinion, of course.
Please wish me well in my job interview this afternoon. Love to all…….
stranger in a strange land
July 30th, 2010
12:46 pm
I fully understand that by posting this, I will again provoke all of those who are emotionally and politically invested in PROMOTING global warming to assume the position.
We all know what the position is: Eyes squeezed shut, forefingers inserted firmly into ears, loudly chanting the slogans they’ve been taught to chant so that no portion of actual scientific knowledge is allowed to penetrate.
I suggest all memebers of the Church of Global Warmists pass the plate at their services, collect all the money they can, so that maybe, possibly, they can reduce the temp of the earth by .04 degrees C in the next 50 yrs. Just do it without ‘OPM’
Jay
July 30th, 2010
12:50 pm
Go get ‘em, Bruno!!
radiowxman
July 30th, 2010
12:53 pm
Global warming is real. If that were not the case, Canada would be under hundreds of feet of ice right now.
What’s in debate is the amount, if any, humans are causing a greater variation in temperatures.
I think it’s reasonable to believe humans have some impact.
If you believe that we are the major cause of global warming, you have to then advocate:
- the reduction of about 90% of the vehicles on the planet.
- Eliminate red meat from everyone’s diet, and a drastic reduction on animal farming worldwide
- A reduction in electrical output at least 70-80%
- no paved roads and a drastic cutback of urban areas.
- Oh, and a reduction of the population on a scale that would make Chairman Mao jealous.
Because to go back to the days where humans had “little impact” on the environment will take much more than hybrid cars (wonder where you get that electrical power?), windmills and locally-grown produce.
Kyoto is just a tiny drop in the bucket of what we’ll start to need. Not to mention to politely ask countries like China, India and Russia to scale back their industrial system to turn-of-the-century output levels. Which I’m sure they’ll be happy to comply with.
Soothsayer
July 30th, 2010
12:55 pm
The Ruling Elite Called
I just got off the horn with the Ruling Elite. We had an emergency conference call and to tell you the truth, they ain’t happy. You little people are not responding the way you are supposed to. A significant portion of you are not getting more optimistic because they tell you to. Instead of just reading the headline on Bloomberg that durable goods orders skyrocketed in June, you actually read the details that said durable goods orders plunged. It is getting difficult for the ruling elite to keep the masses sedated and dumbed down. These damn bloggers, with their facts and critical thinking, are throwing a wrench into the gears.
Obama and his crack team are working round the clock to lock down the internet, but it will take time. Not that they are totally dissatisfied. They’ve been able to renovate their penthouses and purchase new mansions in the Hamptons with the billions in bonuses you supplied through TARP. The $1.2 trillion supplied by your children and grandchildren to buy up toxic mortgages off their balances sheets was a godsend. They will never call you suckers, to your face.
Off-topic (as usual). There’s something in here for everyone! Spend a few minutes reading this article for a “truth-infusion.”
Doomsday 2012
July 30th, 2010
12:58 pm
Jay, you need to forward this blog to president Obama so he understands the severity of the problem. Once that happens he can appoint former congressman Rangel as a special envoy to China. Then Rangel and Hillary can go over there and convince the Chinese to immediately and permanently stop all their greehnouse gas production (they passed the US as the number one polluter). Another problem solved by the mighty, mighty Dems!
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 30th, 2010
12:58 pm
Bruno
12:34 pm
Here you go:
(1) Why won’t God heal amputees?
We do not exist for our pleasure, we exist to serve and worship Him solely for his pleasure. The pain or loss of the amputee is not that which matters here, it is the manner in which said amputee fits into The Lord G-d’s grand plan and how G-d uses him to further that plan. Said amputee is faithful to TLG will have all eternity t worship Him in heaven which is the final completion of man.
(2) Why are there so many starving people in our world?
See 1 above.
(3) Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
See 1 above.
(4) Why does the Bible contain so much anti-Science nonsense?
Let’s see, TLG created the heavens and earth and all that dwell therein. Let’s see, most scientist acknowledge that and embryo is a living thing and most scientist believe abortion is not murder.
Perhaps that which you think of as science, particularly those portions of it not based upon the precepts TLG have given has given us to use, is nonsense, not the Word.
(5) Why is God such a strong proponent of slavery in the Bible?
See 1 above.
(6) Why do bad things happen to good people?
See 1 above.
(7) Why didn’t any of Jesus’s miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?
A better question is why do the haters and scientists ignore TLG’s intelligent design of the universe. Jesus was neither Lenin nor Stalin, so his purpose was not to leave behind self agrandizing monuments. He left behind His Perfect Love and the Holy Spirit.
It
(8) How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
See 1 above.
(9) Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?
To remind us of Him.
(10) Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
The world is a broken place and, almost in all instances, Christian divorce is caused by the demons of non-Christian influences.
Bruno, it seems all your questions come down to one point – you do not acknowledge TLG as sovereign and supreme. Once you understand that He, not you, is the center of the universe and that we are here to worship him and for his purpose and use, then you won’t have your childish questions any longer.
Paulo977
July 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
Do we really really care for our kids ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmcYTAaajDI
joe matarotz
July 30th, 2010
1:07 pm
I don’t blame you, Jay. After the lackluster response to the last topic, you needed to go back to one of your old reliables – global warming. Is 400 the over/under on this one?
Scout
July 30th, 2010
1:09 pm
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr/Bruno/Jay:
Wyld Byll ………. you did a great job ……. I’ll just expound a little:
(1) Why won’t God heal amputees?
He did in the N.T. when he healed a “maimed” man (as opposed to “lame” man) …….. Greek for missing a limb.
(2) Why are there so many starving people in our world?
Because there is a devil.
(3) Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
“For all have sinned” …….. no one is innocent.
(4) Why does the Bible contain so much anti-Science nonsense?
It doesn’t. It was never written to be a book of science. However, in Job it says “He hangeth the earth upon nothing” at a time when the world’s scientists believed the opposite.
(5) Why is God such a strong proponent of slavery in the Bible?
He allowed it out of the hardness of man’s heart as He did divorce. He “allows” us to do many sinful things.
(6) Why do bad things happen to good people?
Because there is a devil and we live in a fallen world.
(7) Why didn’t any of Jesus’s miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?
Because we would worship the “object” rather than the “Creator”.
(8) How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
He is in my heart instead.
(9) Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?
He doesn’t. That is only symbolic that we may remember and worship Him.
(10) Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
Because we are sinners too (just forgiven) and maybe the devil works on us even harder so as to confuse you even more.
Scout
July 30th, 2010
1:10 pm
josef:
Check this out !
PARIS, July 30 (Reuters) – President Nicolas Sarkozy said on Friday he wanted to strip French nationality from anyone of foreign origin who threatened the life of a police officer, in a crackdown after riots shook two French towns this month.
Normal
July 30th, 2010
1:12 pm
Whether it’s our fault or a natural cycle matters not. It’s happening and we must be prepared. I’ll make this easy for y’all to understand in two words.
RUSSIAN ROULETTE! Get it?
Normal
July 30th, 2010
1:14 pm
Scout
July 30th, 2010
1:10 pm
Typical overreaction with no substance…
Gotta run again…see ya at music.
Scout
July 30th, 2010
1:16 pm
Bruno :
1 Corinthians 2:14
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 3:19
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”