Judge seems startled at lack of progress in water-war talks
On July 17, 2009, U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson gave Georgia three years to reach agreement with its neighbors or lose access to Lake Lanier as a source of drinking water.
It is now more than a year later — less than two years from the deadline — and no progress of any sort is discernible. Sure, Gov. Sonny Perdue continues to talk a good game in public, expressing optimism that he can still cut a deal before the end of the year, when he and his counterparts in Alabama and Florida leave office.
But the days fly by, and nothing happens.
In fact, you have to wonder whether Magnuson himself is getting nervous. He may have been right in 2009 about the law: Congress probably never did explicitly approve the use of Lake Lanier, a federal project, as a water supply for metro Atlanta. But when he issued his deadline, I don’t think Magnuson ever imagined that state and federal officials might stand by and actually force him to carry it out.
Of course, that’s not going to happen. As a practical matter, Magnuson simply cannot turn off the spigot two years from now and leave hundreds of thousands of people in Gwinnett County and elsewhere high and dry. And he knows that. He also probably realizes now that while his deadline gave Georgia a great incentive to reach a deal, it put no pressure whatsoever on Alabama and Florida.
As a result, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing nothing.
Last week, Magnuson did take a small step toward rectifying that problem. In another aspect of the complex legal case, Florida has been claiming that under the Endangered Species Act, it was entitled to additional fresh water from Georgia to protect two mussel species and the threatened Gulf sturgeon. That claim was a big part of Florida’s excuse for refusing to cut a deal with Georgia.
In a decision July 21, Magnuson rejected Florida’s claim outright, ruling that “the ESA claims are without merit and must be dismissed.” In effect, the decision leaves Florida with little legitimate reason to continue to reject a settlement. If it continues to do so, it is acting in bad faith. As Perdue put it afterward, “We always felt the use of the Endangered Species Act was just a ruse to try and wring more water out of Georgia,” and Magnuson’s decision strips that ruse naked.
In his ruling, Magnuson also had harsh words for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which operates Lake Lanier and other dams in the Chattahoochee/Apalachicola basin. For example, he wrote that he was troubled “by the Corps’ refusal to take responsibility for its utter failure to conduct any sort of environmental analysis whatsoever” on its existing plan for operating the dams.
But here’s the critical part. The Corps is now drafting a new plan for how to operate Lake Lanier and its other projects, and this time it is also preparing an environmental impact statement. In his ruling, Magnuson strongly suggested that the EIS include the potential impact of water withdrawals from Lake Lanier.
“An EIS that does not at least consider the effects of current and future water supply withdrawals from Lake Lanier as well as other points in the ACF system is, for all intents and purposes, a useless document,” he told the Corps. Clearly, he understands that water withdrawals of some level from Lake Lanier will be a necessity.
Back in June, during oral arguments, Magnuson’s frustration was even more clear. The judicial system is going to do its job of interpreting current law, he told attorneys for all three states and the federal government, “and that’s all I’m going to do, and somebody better figure that out.”
“There are two other branches of government that are involved in this subject,” he said. The executive and legislative branches “are sitting here kicking a football back and forth for 30-plus years. Now, it’s got to come to a conclusion. It’s got to be resolved. The issues that are involved in this case carry such significance to so many people in so many ways that nobody is going to have a complete solution to anything. But there is only one way to resolve it, and that is a resolution as it relates to the legislative side and it relates to the executive side.”
Fine words. Meanwhile, the days continue to fly by.
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105 comments Add your comment
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
7:26 am
“An EIS that does not at least consider the effects of current and future water supply withdrawals from Lake Lanier as well as other points in the ACF system is, for all intents and purposes, a useless document,”
For those of us not terribly familiar with EISs, Jay, could you explain how such a survey would discuss the environmental impact of withdrawals from a lake?
Perhaps I’m missing something here but given that Lanier is an artificial body of water and the environment was just fine and dandy before it hit full pool in the late 1950s, I’m not sure I’m getting this. Is it because of potential for (just guessing here, please don’t laugh) duststorms from dried-up coves? Are there really a lot of flora and fauna that’d be affected?
I just don’t see that this was much of an issue, before, when the lake was ~20 feet below pool. Sure, people were upset, it affected the local recreational industry, etc., but environmentally?
Please to explain.
@@
July 30th, 2010
7:32 am
This water battle reminds me of the Middle East peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel.
I’m still startled that you haven’t yet addressed the leaking spigot in Atlanta.
Jay
July 30th, 2010
7:35 am
Sfd, the EIS would no doubt focus on the impact DOWNSTREAM both of withdrawing water from Lake Lanier and of holding water in Lake Lanier so it could be withdrawn later.
Would it leave downstream fish and mussel species high and dry? Would it have an impact on salinity levels in the biologically rich Apalachicola Bay? Would it do no harm to anyone?
Those kinds of questions.
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
7:38 am
the EIS would no doubt focus on the impact DOWNSTREAM both of withdrawing water from Lake Lanier and of holding water in Lake Lanier so it could be withdrawn later.
wait a minute–you mean that the Corps wouldn’t be doing that as a matter of course?
I took it as a given that they would.
You’re right, that’s bug[bleep] insane.
Northern Songs, LTD
July 30th, 2010
7:41 am
So what’s the over-under on the first “it’s Bush’s fault” “no, it’s Obama’s fault” post?
Seriously, this issue is another prime example of an abject failure of leadership that transcends party lines, and goes back years, if not generations. Pitiful.
Normal
July 30th, 2010
7:44 am
Good morning y’all…I’m off (take that as you will)!!!
I’m surprised the Judge is startled. Around here, we don’t think about water until Saturday nights…
Jay
July 30th, 2010
7:46 am
The Corps took the position in court that since Magnuson had ruled such withdrawals illegal, the feds had no legal authority to study what would happen if those withdrawals continue.
Magnuson told them — and I paraphrase — “what, are you nuts?”
But there’s no sign that the Corps has changed its position.
Road Scholar
July 30th, 2010
7:47 am
What about the impact to the states economy, and more particularly, Atlanta? An EIS also looks at social, cost comparisons and secondary effects.
Doesn’t allowing water to be managed/used for the metro area and along our western border for over 50 years have an implied affect? If you build a fence between your property and your neighbors, and it’s not on the property line, doesn’t the fence become the new property line?
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
7:52 am
Good morning Jay, Normal and stands,
Like most, this is a very complicated topic and involves compromise.
Which generally makes it unsuitable for Republican solutions.
Perhaps Roy will come up with some answers, after November…
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
7:54 am
But there’s no sign that the Corps has changed its position.
So such “surveying”, such as has been / will be done, becomes essentially privatized, or at best left to the individual states whose bias has to be considered?
And that’s what the judge gets to work from to make an informed decision?
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
8:00 am
you haven’t yet addressed the leaking spigot in Atlanta.
@@, granted that the Atlanta water supply/sewer system is old an in need of big bucks, and thus not operating as efficiently as it could/should, but was there something specific in the news of late quantifying the degree of waste Up Here?
Did a quick googling, didn’t see it, is the reason I ask.
ty webb
July 30th, 2010
8:00 am
Don’t mess with those delicious Apalachicola bay oysters! Who cares if a few million people go thirsty? Those tasty creatures must be protected.
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
8:01 am
“old AND in need of big bucks…”
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
8:01 am
ty, are you one of those guys who only thinks that cute and cuddly species should be protected?
TaxPayer
July 30th, 2010
8:02 am
I thought Sonny hired some fancy lawyer that gets some 100 bucks a minute or something like that to handle that matter. Is that lawyer another one of Sonny’s relatives.
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:03 am
Top of the morning to you AmVet…I’m in the mood for protest songs this day, how ’bout you? Even the Republican “Hope and Change” song…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lfz3_bob-dylan-times-they-are-achangin_music
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
8:03 am
ty – oysters are people, too.
joe matarotz
July 30th, 2010
8:03 am
What was the consequence for the politician who started this whole mess? He had an airport named after him. If only he hadn’t been so short-sighted, this would be a non-issue today.
ty webb
July 30th, 2010
8:04 am
sfd,
no not I. I was being serious(I know that’s not often). The Apalachicola bay oysters are the best in the world.
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
8:05 am
It’s been clear since the beginning that Sonny has not taken a serious approach to this. Sonny has done nothing but waste tax dollars trying to put up a fight instead of sitting down and trying to negotiate anything with our neighbors to the west and south of us. He believes that since the lake is in our borders…it belongs to us to do with what we please…never caring that the Fed owns, maintains, and PAID for it in the first place. It therefore belongs to our nation and NOT just GA to do with it as it pleases. I mean how much has GA benefited from the Lake? From drinking water to the real estate developed around the lake…the use of it as a recreational facility, etc…. Sonny knows that he’s leaving office soon and somebody else will have to take care of the fiasco that he did nothing to even TRY and help fix… unless you consider wasted tax dollars on lawyers filing bogus motions “help” for the citizens who pay his salary.
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
8:07 am
I was being serious(I know that’s not often). The Apalachicola bay oysters are the best in the world.
huh. who knew?
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
8:10 am
I honestly can’t see why it should take so long to resolve. After all this time, the Corps must SURELY have some idea of what the average normal downstream flow is. Set the bar that the rate must be maintained at that normal rate, unless there are upstream weather events that would change the flow rate if the lake didn’t exist.
Then take the water out of the lake for Atlanta and the recreational users will just have to come to understand that that’s how it IS on a reservoir lake. The level goes up or down depending on the conditions.
If they want a “steady state” lake, then go to Lake Sinclair, or some lake like that, that are power plant lakes where the water MUST be maintained at or above the intake pipes for the power plant.
TaxPayer
July 30th, 2010
8:10 am
Apalachicola Bay oysters are so good, How Good Are They! They’re so good, folks tie strings to them so they can enjoy them over and over and over… until the string finally breaks.
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
8:12 am
Off topic…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_en_ot/us_books_anne_rice_3
“Anne Rice has had a religious conversion: She’s no longer a Christian.
“In the name of Christ, I refuse to be anti-gay. I refuse to be anti-feminist. I refuse to be anti-artificial birth control,” the author wrote Wednesday on her Facebook page. “In the name of … Christ, I quit Christianity and being Christian. Amen.”
“Amen” to that is right!
Good for her.
larry
July 30th, 2010
8:14 am
William Hartsfield ?
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
8:15 am
Saul – that’s been a long time coming – her issues with religion started when they lost their first child (I want to say it was leukemia, but I’m not sure)
stands for decibels
July 30th, 2010
8:16 am
What was the consequence for the politician who started this whole mess? He had an airport named after him.
I believe efforts are under way to exhume Hartsfield, clone him from the DNA, wait for his clone to reach adulthood, and then have his clone executed at Turner Field. Justice will be served.
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
8:18 am
Hiya Normal. Hell to the yeah! There is never a bad time to play songs like that.
We want our country and our sovereignty back! And we’re not willing to outbid Wall Street or the Chinese for it! We want an end to these chosen wars by Crusading Christians! We want some of that justice and freedom for all!
Perhaps when these old, stuck in the 50s faketriots die off, we’ll have a chance.
(Man, did you miss an embarrassing meltdown last night!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgGQNEz-WEQ
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
8:20 am
USinUK… I’m actually surprised it’s taken THIS long. Yet you have to credit her for “trying” different “sects” until she realized that their all pretty much the same… fear, bigotry, and a nice paycheck for the leaders (tax free of course)…
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
8:23 am
Saul – AS much as I liked the Vampire books, the scariest passage I’ve ever read (even scarier than anything from Stephen King) was in the Witching Hour. that woman has one helluvan imagination.
Saul Good
July 30th, 2010
8:25 am
US…. read some of what she wrote as Anne Rambling… yup…she sure DOES have a vivid imagination… and then some!
alright…. time to get some yard work done before it gets TOO hawt!
See ya’s alls latas…
Jay
July 30th, 2010
8:28 am
Actually, Doggone, that’s essentially what the judge ruled in this phase of the lawsuit. Very roughly speaking, Florida and Alabama don’t have the right to demand more water than nature would provide.
The problem is, this phase has no direct impact on the previous phase, in which the judge ruled that we have no legal right to store or withdraw water at Lake Lanier because that is not a legally authorized purpose.
Confusing, I know. Think of it as two major hurdles. The first is Lake Lanier authorization; the second is downstream flows.
We have more or less cleared the second hurdle with this most recent ruling (pending appeals, etc.) But it really won’t matter much unless we also clear the first hurdle, which at the moment seems impassable.
Lee
July 30th, 2010
8:29 am
Bottom line, metro Atlanta exceeded the carrying capacity of the land years ago. However, the politicians and developers continued their quest for uncontrolled growth for years. Now, they are having to deal with the consequences.
I believe it was Ann Rand who said “You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”
Clark
July 30th, 2010
8:30 am
Before the elections there were a bunch of commericals for the candidates. Very few were about the services the government should provide and the serious issues such as water and transportation in the state. Most were about who was the most anti gay and anti abortion. This is because the candidates know that most native Georgians are more concerned with sticking their nose in their neighbors butts than how the gov’t is going to serve them.
Ann Rand
July 30th, 2010
8:31 am
Yes Lee you are correct.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
8:31 am
ANOTHER QUARTER OF POSITIVE GROWTH … annualized GDP for Q2 came in at 2.4% (and Q1 was revised up to 3.7%)
Doggone/GA
July 30th, 2010
8:32 am
Jay – yes, I remember the legality issue from when you first brought this up, but what I don’t really see is why Florida and Alabama have a stake in THAT issue. As long as they are getting the amount of water they would get if the lake didn’t exist, that should take care of their concerns.
It seems to me that this part of GA (I live near Lake Lanier) would be the interested party in what Atlanta can or can’t take from the lake, but not Florida or Alabama.
USinUK
July 30th, 2010
8:32 am
That makes 4 quarters of positive growth …
THANK YOU, OBAMA!
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:35 am
If Georgia secedes fro the Union, will the water be ours then?
I really can’t get this. Millions of dollars will be spent, read thrown away, by the tax parers of Georgia, and the Supreme Court will rule…:Share, Children”. Is there something better to do with that money? Oh, I don’t know…maybe hire new teachers?
This is another revolting developement you got me into, Ollie….
To all y’all…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaC5ohRAjmI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaC5ohRAjmI&feature=related
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:36 am
Whoops, sorry, I must be seeing double…
Don't forget
July 30th, 2010
8:36 am
It’s amazing how often the endangered species act has been used for reasons other than to protect endangered species.
ty webb
July 30th, 2010
8:39 am
“native Georgians are more concerned with sticking their nose in their neighbors butts than how the gov’t is going to serve them.”
yeah…in Midtown.
Ayn Rand
July 30th, 2010
8:40 am
Go to the corner and buy me another carton of Lucky Strikes and a bottle of Jack’s.
And that bimbo who can’t even spell my pen-name right? Have Vinny break her legs.
Keep up the good fight!
July 30th, 2010
8:41 am
Its all a simple Republican formula. They’ve done it in taxes and they can do it here. We cut water use by 10% and magically there is water growth by 25%. We dont need no socialized eurostyle water!
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:49 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6giiYDlqRQs
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:50 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw275056JtA&feature=related
Normal
July 30th, 2010
8:52 am
That’s all I have for this subject. Off to yard sales…got a business to feed…
Moderate Line
July 30th, 2010
8:58 am
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
7:52 am
Which generally makes it unsuitable for Republican solutions.
++++++++++++
Georgia had a Democratic Goverernor from 1872 until 2003.
AmVet
July 30th, 2010
9:05 am
ML, you’ll get no quarrel from me on how Georgia politics have been a laughingstock for many years.
Pray for Rain just upped the ante…
Bosch
July 30th, 2010
9:06 am
@@ is right – this is more complicated that the Middle East peace negotiations. I actually understand an inkling of what that’s all about.
And, yes, ty, oysters have feelings too — but I dont’ care about those so much when I’m sucking the little b@stards down my throat.