When gov’t and business align, both become more powerful at the citizens’ expense
The full implications of the Citizens United ruling that corporations and unions are people, and thus have a free-speech right to spend as much of their enormous resources as they wish to influence elections, are only gradually coming into focus.
But here’s a good place to start:
Roger Nicholson, senior vice president and general counsel at International Coal Group, recently sent a letter around to other major coal companies proposing that they create a new campaign-finance entity that would allow them to spend millions of dollars defeating candidates they don’t like. Even better, thanks to the successful filibuster against the so-called DISCLOSE Act, their expenditures wouldn’t have to be publicly disclosed until they file their tax returns next year, long after the election is over.
The Lexington Herald Leader has obtained a copy of Nicholson’s letter.
“With the recent Supreme Court ruling, we are in a position to be able to take corporate positions that were not previously available in allowing our voices to be heard,” Nicholson wrote. “…. A number of coal industry representatives recently have been considering developing a 527 entity with the purpose of attempting to defeat anti-coal incumbents in select races, as well as elect pro-coal candidates running for certain open seats. We’re requesting your consideration as to whether your company would be willing to meet to discuss a significant commitment to such an effort.”
According to the letter, Nicholson’s company and three other major coal firms “have already had some theoretical discussions about such an effort and would like to proceed in developing an action plan.” Among the firms listed is Massey Energy, run by CEO Don Blankenship, who has a long history of buying politicians and state Supreme Court justices.
As the Herald-Leader also notes, Nicholson’s firm “owned the Sago mine in West Virginia where 12 miners died in 2006. Massey owned the Upper Big Branch mine, also in West Virginia, where 29 miners died in April.”
The letter proposes to focus the finance effort on three races “of interest”. One of them is the contest between incumbent Democratic Rep. Nick Rahall of West Virginia against his Republican challenger, Elliott “Spike” Maynard. For those who followed that story, Maynard is the former West Virginia Supreme Court justice who vacationed on the French Riviera with Blankenship, then came home and cast the deciding vote that overturned a $50 million verdict against Blankenship’s company.
Unfortunately, the power that Citizens United confers on both unions and corporations lies not just in their expanded ability to change the outcome of elections. It also gives those entities considerable if more subtle power to intimidate or seduce those already in office.
It’s a shame that this evolved so quickly into a partisan issue, because Citizens United poses a danger to conservatives as well as liberals. For example, it hands a much bigger stick to unions, including government-employee unions, to reward their friends and punish their enemies. It gives Wall Street an even bigger voice in demanding access to government bailouts and other favors. If you are concerned about immigration, it enhances the clout of Big Agriculture and other industries that see illegal immigrants as a cheap source of labor and profit. And it will make politicians more eager to appease corporations that come to them behind closed doors demanding congressional earmarks.
Overall, Citizens United tightens the nexus between government and business, allowing each to seek more favors from the other. Such rent-seeking behavior will inevitably undercut the operation of the free market, a prospect that no doubt frightens the few remaining true conservatives on the modern American scene.
Personally, I never liked the approach taken by President Obama and the Democrats in trying to address this challenge. The DISCLOSE Act was an effort to manage the issue, rather than solve it, and any effort to “manage” a problem like this becomes a power play in its own right.
A better approach would be a simple, clean, nine-word constitutional amendment that strikes at the heart of the Citizen United ruling: “A corporation or union is not a natural person.” It seems to me to be an irrefutable statement of fact, or at least ought to be.
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251 comments Add your comment
Granny Godzilla
July 29th, 2010
10:47 am
So let’s amend it!
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
10:54 am
“a simple, clean, nine-word constitutional amendment ”
oh, yeah. that’s sooooooooo gonna happen – particularly when big bidness is the one pulling the congress critters’ strings.
Gale
July 29th, 2010
10:56 am
I think most of us saw this coming after that -supreme- decision.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
10:57 am
Gale – sad, but true – we all saw this coming
Peadawg
July 29th, 2010
10:58 am
“Personally, I never liked the approach taken by President Obama and the Democrats”
I haven’t liked the Obama’s approach on a lot of issues.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
10:59 am
“A corporation or union is not a natural person.”
Jay…let’s step it up a notch… a Corporation can set up shop overseas and “register” as a NEW subsidiary of that very same Corporation over there (Like Halliburton)… SO… if a corporation is a person…why can’t I do the same thing? Can I be Saul Good “resident” of the US…and “Saul Good Light”…resident of the UAE as well? Shift my “profits” to the company that is taxed less (and perhaps has less stringent rules placed upon it)…and charge off my expenses to the other as well? Yet…when done laundering my profits… pretty much use them as I see fit…tax free in some cases.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:00 am
Granny….yup…unlike Abortion which is the “rule of the land”…this faulty law is new and can still be amended to the point where it’s not effective.
Had enough yet?
July 29th, 2010
11:05 am
Your title says it all. While the Obama administration continues to strongarm businesses, we the citizens suffer.
Socialism stinks.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
11:08 am
I think if the political will was present there could be a lot more done to corporate law, without a constitutional amendment. Most state law actually states that a corporation is a “person’.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:09 am
Socialism stinks.
Did you READ the post Jay wrote? Did you? If you did…you comprehended NOTHING and only saw words…words put together in sentences… but you failed to tie them all together…
Obama is to blame for this? Socialism?
Sheeesh!
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:10 am
Saul – 11:09 – to answer your first question, my £££ is on “no”
DP
July 29th, 2010
11:10 am
Big government and big business are a cabal. See Simon Johnson’s 2009 article “The Quiet Coup” that was in the Atlantic Monthly. Those who still see everything in the old right versus left terms are out of touch. There’s not that much substantive difference between the policies of Obama and Bush.
Jay, how about a sitting President who almost never holds a press conference going on “The View”? I can only imagine what you’d be writing if it was Bush.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:12 am
“I think if the political will was present there could be a lot more done to corporate law, without a constitutional amendment. Most state law actually states that a corporation is a “person’.”
Well then…i guess my wife’s business will get to VOTE as a “person” in the next election…and the LLC I have set up for my music work will also get to “vote”…
Funny how corporations can now work to contribute money as an individual…but as “individuals” have no right to VOTE.
There lies the BIG FLAW in the law.
Peadawg
July 29th, 2010
11:13 am
“Obama is to blame for this? Socialism?”
Y’all love to blame Bush for everything that’s wrong.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:14 am
“Y’all love to blame Bush for everything that’s wrong.”
EVERYthing???
hyperbolate much?
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:15 am
UsinUK… that’s protocol… all one needs to do is read the headline to know the whole story… well unless it’s about Mel Gibson ranting or Lindsey and how she’s doing in jail…then they read the 3rd grade level penned article composed in three paragraphs or less summing up the little picture posted above it.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
11:16 am
I don’t disagree Saul that there are big problems with the SCOTUS decision and the consequences. I agree corporate power needs to be reigned in and controlled and corporate law overhauled. However, we also need to be aware that corporations are a creation of state law and not federal law. The entire fiction that a corporation is a “person” needs to be reassessed. This is the consequence of SCOTUS tossing out years and years of court decisions.
Peadawg
July 29th, 2010
11:17 am
“hyperbolate much?”
I’m sorry. 99.9%. Better punkin?
Doomsday 2012
July 29th, 2010
11:17 am
Democracy and capitalism are the best political and economic systems we have and they are both failing miserably. Oh woe is us!
andygrd
July 29th, 2010
11:18 am
I think major reform is required across all lines. Candidates should not be allowed to accept funds nor allow non-state voters for example to participate state or local elections. Only the people of the state or local should be able to contribute or pay for ads.
I realize I am dreaming, and it will never happen, but I am tired of special interest groups calling the shots and owning the politicians….. And there should be no endorsements from any group, only endorsements from individuals.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:19 am
“I’m sorry. 99.9%. Better punkin?”
awwww, diddums … we point out that the economy started failing on Bush’s watch and suddenly we’re blaming him for 99.9% of all of life’s ills …
… sounds like someone needs a hug …
Scout
July 29th, 2010
11:23 am
Granny:
“Sometimes you’re the windshiled and sometimes you’re the bug” ………………..
Peadawg
July 29th, 2010
11:24 am
“Sometimes you’re the windshiled and sometimes you’re the bug”
Damn yellow jackets at the north avenue trade school.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
July 29th, 2010
11:26 am
Well, the politicans got two choices. They can gripe and try and get a Amenment passed. Or they can just sidle up to people like Don Blankenship and ask what to kiss and when.
Pretty simple choice. All I know is I wouldn’t want to be this Nick Rahall right now.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:27 am
Scout – 11:23 – gah – you reminded me of my first job after graduating from college – I spent a lot of time traveling through South Georgia in the summer months – the front of my car would be CAKED with dead bugs …
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:30 am
Keep…thanks for your reply… I mean…from what I wrote…THERE lies the big problem. Yes…corporations are registered in states and follow those states laws (regardless of WHICH states they sell their products/services to…then they HAVE to follow the laws if it’s illegal in that state they wish to sell to)… but one can’t deem a corporation a “person” when dealing with election laws…if they refuse to allow that “person” to cast a vote.
mm
July 29th, 2010
11:31 am
Strange how the wingnuts think government was good under Bush and bad under Obama.
Only the low information voters will buy into these sleazy commercials.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
11:31 am
I’m sorry. 99.9%
Dammit, I forgot to blame Bush for Newt’s anti-Muslim bigotry, and the AZ immigration law, yesterday.
However will I make the property tax payments on that pied a terre George Soros bought for me on the French Riviera? Oh me. Oh my.
mm
July 29th, 2010
11:32 am
Low information voter = anyone who watches Fox News.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Oh, and one could do worse than to sign that petition GG linked upthread.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:33 am
dB – I know – I should’ve blamed Bush for the crappy connection we had on our conference call earlier this week …
Jefferson
July 29th, 2010
11:33 am
Only voters should be allowed to contribute to political campaigns. All contributions should be disclosed so the public is aware of who is being pimped out.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:34 am
“Scout – 11:23 – gah – you reminded me of my first job after graduating from college – I spent a lot of time traveling through South Georgia in the summer months – the front of my car would be CAKED with dead bugs …”
Happens here in the North GA mountains as well… I mean…when will SOMEONE develop a windshield wiper that will do more than smear the “bug juice” (for lack of a better term) all over the window? Add to that the “baking” of the dead bug and his/her remnants on one’s windshield…
I’m hoping someone like Todd Palin can develop a product for this…because if anyone has ever driven around Alaska in the summer… it’s probably worse then here in GA!
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:34 am
mm – or anyone who slings the word “socialism” around willy-nilly
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:35 am
Saul – Todd Palin? what would it be a Bug Zamboni?
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:35 am
“dB – I know – I should’ve blamed Bush for the crappy connection we had on our conference call earlier this week …”
Nah…for years now…every time I have a crappy connection on the phone…i blame it on Dick Cheney.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
11:35 am
What is the last thought on a bug’s mind as it hits the windshield…”here comes an a$$whole”. Which is the same thing I think whenever Scout makes a post.
Thank you….I’ll be working the room all night. Tip your wait staff. And so I bowed!
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:36 am
USinUK,
That’s a GREAT idea… a tiny one…one that can scrap our windows while we’re at the concession stand buying more beer…and Bon Jovi is playing in the background! COOOOL!
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
11:37 am
This is where it’s worth asking–how many of you folks, when confronted with “Do you want $3 of your federal tax to go to the Presidential Election Campaign Fund?” on your tax form, choose not to, and why?
Peadawg
July 29th, 2010
11:37 am
“Low information voter = anyone who watches Fox News.”
Low information voter = anyone who voted for Obama because of his race…which sadly was a lot of people on both sides.
Bosch
July 29th, 2010
11:37 am
“And it will make politicians more eager to appease corporations that come to them behind closed doors demanding congressional earmarks.”
Good God, how could they be MORE eager to appease corporations? Will they be required to give actual flesh, bone, and blood?
Observer
July 29th, 2010
11:37 am
As you stated, Jay, it seems like both sides of the isle could benefit from this. What could possibly be wrong with increasing transparency?
Can someone PLEASE explain the GOP’s viewpoint on this issue???
Have Beck and Hannity not covered it yet so the party’s speaking points are not yet readily available?
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:38 am
Keep: “What is the last thought on a bug’s mind as it hits the windshield…”here comes an a$$whole”.
Funny!
Think of how many bugs we’ve killed around the world with the advent of the automobile…i mean… at least they had time to dodge oncoming horse and buggies.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:40 am
“anyone who voted for Obama OR MCCAIN because of their races…which sadly was a lot of people on both sides”
Bosch
July 29th, 2010
11:40 am
“Sometimes you’re the windshiled and sometimes you’re the bug”
I like that and will have to remember that. But when I remember it, windshield will be properly spelled.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
11:45 am
I’m hoping someone like Todd Palin can develop a product for this…
Huh?
…well, he does know a thing or two about teeny-tiny critters going where they’re not wanted.
USinUK
July 29th, 2010
11:47 am
http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/carpenter-mary-chapin/the-bug-5188.html
Mary Chapin Carpenter song … also covered by Dire Straits
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
11:48 am
Anyone remember ACORN and how THEY were going to take our nation down? gee…. I’m SO glad I “survived” ACORN… I guess all of you reading this made it out alive as well! Thank (fill in the blank)….
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
11:49 am
Can someone PLEASE explain the GOP’s viewpoint on this issue???
It would seem that it is the exact same as on every other issue and essentially reads, “If non-Republicans are for something/anything? (Hat tip TR), we are against it.”
And it’s corollary, “If non-Republicans are against something/anything?, we are for it.”
But this is what you get when they rely exclusively on parroting the talking heads who do their thinking for the “base”, simple-minded slogans and sound-bites as immutable mantras and childishly naive “answers” to extremely complex problems
No matter the merits, no matter the overwhelming consensus that dominates intelligent thought, they can and will play stupid. All for the sake of The Beloved Party.
Oh and for the UGA crowd, there is a third axiom, “George Walker Bush is responsible for NOTHING!”
Chuckle…
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
11:49 am
As someone who likes bugs, Isay outlaw windshields. that would
slow traffic down.
Democrats are dumb
July 29th, 2010
11:51 am
It’s Bush’s fault.
Boots
July 29th, 2010
11:54 am
Maybe we ought to just suspend all government and let corporate largesse wash over us all and take care of us. Aaaaaaah, feels gooooood!
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
11:54 am
Anyone remember ACORN and how THEY were going to take our nation down? gee…. I’m SO glad I “survived” ACORN…
Lest you think Saul’s exaggerating…
“We need to know the full extent of Senator Obama’s relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”
–Senator/Drama Queen John McCain, 10/15/2008
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
11:55 am
Corporations are entities that represent groups of people. Stifle
the corporation and you stifle the ability of the group to speak
with one voice in violation of freedom or speech.
getalife
July 29th, 2010
11:56 am
When gov’t and business align, we should have a choice to dissolve government.
We are na zis.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
11:57 am
Well…let’s see. If we pull out the old hits, maybe the one about Rod and Obama conspiring to appoint a senator….except that the tapes had Obama saying to Rod “I want a senator that is best for the people of Illinois.” Yep, that sounds like a conspiracy to bring down the republic!
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
11:59 am
“Ousted USDA employee Sherrod plans to sue blogger”
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ousted-usda-employee-sherrod-581164.html
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:01 pm
Geez, mystery meat at 11:51 stealing my shtick. How low will these cons go???
You will not find ONE of the right wing regulars here (at least those with the guts to keep their nom de blogue for more than 10 minutes, mystery meat) who will touch this topic of the selling off of our sacred sovereignty to the highest bidder.
And as getalife notes:
“Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” — Benito Mussolini
Way to go right-wing American fascists…
Honu
July 29th, 2010
12:03 pm
Wow! President Obama just rocked it on The View!
Jimmy62
July 29th, 2010
12:04 pm
I agree that ties between business and government lead to bad things. It’s called crony capitalism, and is the enemy of libertarians and free market advocates.
That said, I disagree that this particular instance is the disaster Bookman claims it is. Speech from any person or entity should not be stifled. If you don’t like what they say, then come up with some valid arguments against it. Denying the right for an entity to have their say just tells me you fear you won’t have a good argument why that speech is wrong. Are you so scared that these corporations are right that you would rather stifle their ability to speak rather than have to defend your own positions?
ACORN creating voter fraud on a massive scale, such a large scale that we will never know if, for instance, Al Franken only won because of cheating by ACORN, is certainly a big deal. And if it did affect the outcome of elections, then yes, the fabric of democracy was in fact unraveled. Or are you going to tell me that democracy is just fine even though the people that won the elections didn’t really win except through massive cheating? I would say that when the candidates that got the most votes from real voters lost due to the influx of fake voters supported by ACORN, it’s hard to say democracy won out.
Union
July 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
i dont have much to say about this.. except.. i do agree with jay.. (gasp) but what i do want to say (or ask).. is why the heck do ppl want to live in california so bad? especially los angeles.. traffic here makes atl look like a day at the park.. miss you bunch of liberal fanatics..
Normal
July 29th, 2010
12:07 pm
We nevah should ‘ave left the Queen…
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
12:09 pm
stands for decibels@ 11:54 am:
nah…they don’t want to talk about it…just like they don’t want to talk about just what it WAS that he was going to do to “fix” the economy… ACORN was a “threat” to our society… (when actually the “threat” had already “made good” on their promises by devastating and “destroying the fabric of democracy)…pre Jan 20th 2009.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
12:09 pm
Union,
“is why the heck do ppl want to live in california so bad?”
To be closer to those they idolize? And the Pinkberry….
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
12:10 pm
Jimmy… please do tell us all…the “votes” that actually took place because of ACORN and the “registration of voters” fiasco….
Sorry…Micky Mouse never voted.
lovelyliz
July 29th, 2010
12:10 pm
the government over business,
the individual over government,
the environment over everything
and the lndians, oh, give them whatever they want
Paulo977
July 29th, 2010
12:11 pm
Hono
@12:03 YES IN A BIG WAY!!!
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
12:14 pm
Jimmy62…. do you have any links to real facts on the ACORN claim or just looking at some distortion with edited tapes. Any convictions? Actual prosecutions? Or are you confusing voter registration issues and state law requirements that all signatures be turned over without editing with actual voter fraud.
No one is afraid of what corporations will say. The fear is the unbalanced power of the dollar that they wield in elections and the fact that many corporations have profits exceeding the national gross of many countries. Those US citizens who are members of a corporation already have a vote and a voice of their own.
@@
July 29th, 2010
12:14 pm
WaPo: Unions Outspending Corporations on Campaign Ads
The special interests you don’t need protection from.
So far this year, $24.7 million in independent spending has been reported to the Federal Election Commission, campaign filings show. Unions have spent $9.7 million (or 39 percent of the total), compared with $6.4 million (26 percent) spent by individuals and $3.4 million spent by corporations.
Makes ‘ya wonder where Unions come up with $9.7 million, don’t it? I can tell you that among my friends who are members of a union, they don’t vote Democrat.
Kamchak
July 29th, 2010
12:16 pm
is why the heck do ppl want to live in california so bad?
For me, it’s San Jose.
In August, low humidity and the high temps are in the mid-70’s and the low temps are in the 40-50 degree range.
Union
July 29th, 2010
12:16 pm
@ jc.. they can have it
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:16 pm
Jimmy, the free speech argument is poppycock and a gigantic red herring.
It is merely the latest giant step in the systematic sublimation of the will of THE PEOPLE that is at stake here.
I am quite sure that for some on the right they do not know what the word sovereignty even means:
sovereignty -noun: supreme and independent power or authority in government
IT BELONGS TO WE THE PEOPLE. Not Goldman Sachs, AIG, Merck, BP or the AFL-CIO.
I could write pages and pages and pages with mountains of evidence, data, numbers, laws and facts to show this sell off of our god given authority is irrefutably so, but the corporate water carriers would either discount or deny it all.
Washington DC is corporate owned territory. Pure and simple. Do you deny this?
TEN THOUSAND LOBBYISTS lobbyists on K Street and elsewhere in the nation’s capitol. Hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal to influence policy. Influence it, hell! They write much of it!
“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis?)attributed to Abraham Lincoln
@@
July 29th, 2010
12:16 pm
Oops! Link to my 12:14.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wapo-unions-outspending-corporations-campaign-ads
I was also happy to see where Harry Reid’s campaign ads were being paid for by BIG PHARMA…small print…bottom of the television ad.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
12:18 pm
Union,
“they can have it ”
Yeah..I’m not so much the fan myself…
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:19 pm
Jimmy, the free speech argument is a gigantic red herring.
It is merely the latest giant step in the systematic sublimation of the will of THE PEOPLE that is at stake here.
I am quite sure that for some on the right they do not know what the word sovereignty even means:
sovereignty -noun: supreme and independent power or authority in government
IT BELONGS TO WE THE PEOPLE. Not Goldman Sachs, AIG, Merck, BP or the AFL-CIO.
I could write pages and pages and pages with mountains of evidence, data, numbers, laws and facts to show this sell off of our god given authority is irrefutably so, but the corporate water carriers would either discount or deny it all.
Washington DC is corporate owned territory. Pure and simple. Do you even deny this?
TEN THOUSAND LOBBYISTS on K Street and elsewhere in the nation’s capitol. Virtually all of them advocating on behalf against you and me and for special interest groups cloaked as corporations. Hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal to influence policy. Influence it, hell! They write much of it!
“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis?)attributed to Abraham Lincoln
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:19 pm
Jimmy, the free speech argument is a gigantic red herring.
It is merely the latest giant step in the systematic sublimation of the will of THE PEOPLE that is at stake here.
I am quite sure that for some on the right they do not know what the word sovereignty even means:
sovereignty -noun: supreme and independent power or authority in government
IT BELONGS TO WE THE PEOPLE. Not Goldman Sachs, AIG, Merck, BP or the AFL-CIO.
I could write pages and pages and pages with mountains of evidence, data, numbers, laws and facts to show this sell off of our god given authority is irrefutably so, but the corporate water carriers would either discount or deny it all.
Washington DC is corporate owned territory. Pure and simple. Do you even deny this?
TEN THOUSAND LOBBYISTS on K Street and elsewhere in the nation’s capitol. Virtually all of them advocating on behalf against you and me and for special interest groups cloaked as corporations. Hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal to influence policy. Influence it, hell! They write much of it!
“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis?)attributed to Abraham Lincoln
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:19 pm
Zooks. A diatribe in triplicate!
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
Kamchak,
“For me, it’s San Jose. ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiB02XWTwI4
Just a hint…this is not the song you want to be blasting from your foreign-made convertible while driving in the backwoods of TN.
Jefferson
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
you can say that again, and again
getalife
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
They took a hard right turn over the cliff.
This will end with default and we will be like Russia.
States can leave.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
Now for some truth
Republican Arrested for Voter Registration Fraud
US election: Republican operative faces voter registration fraud charges
McCain campaign paid Republican operative accused of voter fraud
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
“A diatribe in triplicate!”
aka: a keyboard stutter!
Abrazos
July 29th, 2010
12:23 pm
“Corporations are entities that represent groups of people. Stifle
the corporation and you stifle the ability of the group to speak
with one voice in violation of freedom or speech.”
I am really puzzled by that post. I work for a Fortune 10 corporation, as in one of the 10 largest global companies. I exercise my right to vote so I don’t need an additional “voice”, plus I don’t always agree with my company’s positions and they don’t necessarily speak for me. In addition, my division alone has over 45,000 employees including those living and working in China, Pakistan, India, Mexico, etc. Is the “one voice” rationale to mean that they should get a “voice” in this country’s democracy as well?
I have not encountered one argument supporting the “Citizens United” ruling that makes sense.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
12:25 pm
“I have not encountered one argument supporting the “Citizens United” ruling that makes sense.”
Including the SC decision
Kamchak
July 29th, 2010
12:26 pm
…this is not the song you want to be blasting from your foreign-made convertible while driving in the backwoods of TN.
As I recall, it was a Jag.
Maybe one day you will relate the rest of the story.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
12:29 pm
Here’s an example of how the “news cycle” works (feel free to apply to the subject of your choice):
Yesterday – Jack Hanna used pepper spray to run off a young grizzly bear
Then – grizzlies attacked 3 people, killing 1
Today – Jack Hanna “saves 4 from grizzlies”
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
12:31 pm
“Republican Arrested for Voter Registration Fraud”
Quick! Someone alert Karen Handel!!!
She’ll make sure that bad man shows his photo ID next time!
LOL!!
I Report :-) You Whine :-( mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 29th, 2010
12:37 pm
Why are mouthy dummycrats always trying to make other people shut up?
Wes
July 29th, 2010
12:38 pm
Jay,
You’re absolutely correct that moneyed interests shouldn’t have this much say in our government.
I think you might be optimistic to believe that powerful entities will be hamstrung that simply.
I’d personally prefer gutting the commerce clause so that the states can decide their own level of governance or increasing representation to the point where buying a few legislators is ineffective (say 1 rep for 30,000 constituents).
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
12:39 pm
Abrazos; 12:23; The corporation represents its owners. You are an employee
that may or may not represent the corporation.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
12:41 pm
Speech from any person or entity should not be stifled. If you don’t like what they say, then come up with some valid arguments against it.
Some unnamed consortium of business interests who hate Candidate X decide to run ten million dollars worth of ads calling Candidate X a goat-bleeping child molester. Oh, and what’s more–they sponsor a “documentary” that asserts that this is true. All this stuff starts running on TeeVee, and billboards, and all over the Interwebs, the week before the election.
(And there’s no way to trace back who actually paid for this smear job for months, thanks to the tireless efforts of GOP senators, who couldn’t even accept this weak-tea problem management solution.)
How do I, as Candidate X or someone who supports Candidate X, come up with “valid arguments” against something like that? Particularly when 60% of the voting public now believes in the goat-bleeping and child molesting allegations?
Abrazos
July 29th, 2010
12:41 pm
barking frog, I am an employee and also a shareholder. So I am an “owner” as well.
Granny Godzilla
July 29th, 2010
12:43 pm
I am amazed that there are still folks who think ACORN was the badguy and not the victim.
Can you get any less informed?
Granny Godzilla
July 29th, 2010
12:45 pm
We the entities of the United States of America……
Falls flat don’t it?
MB12
July 29th, 2010
12:46 pm
Did I just see someone whine about voter fraud? As if the fraud in ACORN and the now known fraudulent votes in the Al Franken election? I got it – only Republicans can be tied to voter fraud, illegal alien votes, dead people votes, felons in jail votes, etc.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, the Obumble administration is nominating a new chief budget officer. The man hails from Citigroup – yeah that Citigroup that was bailed out last year and the same Citigroup that gave this man nearly a $1M in a bonus. So, where’s the media on this one? There isn’t one thing the Obumble administration can do to raise the ire of the main stream media.
And speaking of raising ire, i thought Charlie Rangel was going to be proud to testify about his innocence in the shenanigans he’s accused of? What happened? Today he and his lawyers are cutting a deal. Oh goodie!
“Ours will be the most ethical congress in history” – Nancy Pelosi 2006
“We will have the most transparent administration in history” – Barack Obama 2008
Dems have lost the independent support and will continue to slide in popularity with everyone except their hardcore fringe which would support them right over the cliff. Fortunately the majority is going to do something about it starting this November. Time to get some checks and balances back in Washington and get rid of this wretched incompetence and America-destroying policy.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
12:47 pm
Abrazos:Then you and the other owners have the right to speak as one
entity and the government may not stifle that speech.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
12:48 pm
As [in] the fraud in ACORN and the now known fraudulent votes in the Al Franken election?
Drugs are bad, kids, mmmkay?
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
12:48 pm
Slightly off subject#1
Here’s something that should be of greater concern than Citizens United -
From Daily Intel – With the signing of legislation passed today, Massachusetts will become the latest state to join the National Popular Vote movement, an interstate compact among states who agree to give their electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote. The compact will only take effect once enough states sign on so that their collective electoral votes surpass 270, the minimum number required for a presidential candidate to win. With Massachusetts joining Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, and Washington, that number is now up to 73.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
12:49 pm
“Speech from any person or entity should not be stifled. If you don’t like what they say, then come up with some valid arguments against it.”
How about this form of speech?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/15/AR2010061505556.html
jt
July 29th, 2010
12:49 pm
” Such rent-seeking behavior will inevitably undercut the operation of the free market,”
Free market?………Ha Ha.
A little late to save that.
Normal
July 29th, 2010
12:50 pm
You’ve come a long way, Baby…
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/07/ap_woman_commander_072910/
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
12:53 pm
How did ACORN register dead people to vote? Did they steal their identities, or walk them to the polls ala ‘Weekend at Bernies’?
lovelyliz
July 29th, 2010
12:54 pm
11,195. That’s the number of corporate lobbyists who are presently plying their nefarious trade day and night in Washington’s hallways and back rooms.
$2.95 billion. That’s the amount that corporations spent on lobbyists last year alone (a sum more than six times greater than the total spent by all consumer,environmental, worker, and other non-corporate groups combined).
$473 million. That’s the sum of money that corporate executives and lobbyists have slipped into Washington’s many political pockets–so far–for the 2010 election cycle, including donations to candidates, leadership PACS, and party committees. We are still seven months from the 2010 elections, and already corporate spending has reached the record-breaking total of $475 million shelled out for the entire 2008 cycle.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
12:54 pm
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
12:21 pm
Oh dear…what do we do now with regards to WALNUT??? The republican party’s version of ACORN?
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
12:55 pm
Here’s something that should be of greater concern than Citizens United -
Given that all of the signatory states are fairly reliably blue, and what they may or may not do is simply what Nebraska is already doing–what is your specific concern?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
12:56 pm
“an interstate compact among states who agree to give their electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote”
a correction: to whichever candidate wins the overall NATIONAL popular vote
In other words, negating the will of the people in their state and subsuming it to the great will of the people in all the other states.
Sounds like socialism to me
Abrazos
July 29th, 2010
12:56 pm
@ 12:47 “Then you and the other owners have the right to speak as one
entity and the government may not stifle that speech.”
As a citizen, my interests are not necessarily tied to those of a corporation of which I am a both a shareholder and employee. Therefore, the Board of Director’s voice does not and should not speak for me.
Normal
July 29th, 2010
12:56 pm
The Republicans JUST have to have their nuts bigger than the Democrats, don’t they?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
12:59 pm
sfd – that is not what Nebraska does. Check out the website for the “compact”:
http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/pages/misc/888wordcompact.php
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:00 pm
Granny Godzilla: as a fellow reptile, though of a larger corporate
structure, i’m sure you’re aware that the founding fathers were
well educated and knew that all people are legal entities except
for children, indians, and negroes at that time.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
1:00 pm
BADA BING,
“How did ACORN register dead people to vote? Did they steal their identities, or walk them to the polls ala ‘Weekend at Bernies’?”
Not that Acorn is a law enforcement entity, but some are making the case that identity theft is legal for the gov’t:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2005/04/10/20050410-A1-02.html
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
1:04 pm
DGA @ 12.59, I stand corrected; I had misunderstood an earlier explanation of this effort I’d been given, before.
I’m not 100% sure how I feel about the compact, but in principle, anything that would serve to overturn our goofy electoral college’s capability of electing a President who doesn’t receive a majority of popular votes can’t be all bad.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
1:05 pm
Bing…. let’s see… Registration is not voting. But tell me really…when Mickey Mouse is registered and reported as registered (as REQUIRED by state law although flagged by Acorn in most cases as suspect), just where exactly did Mickey Mouse show up and vote?
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:07 pm
Abrazos:12:56;You may sell your stock,but until you do, the the officers of the
corporation have the right to speak for you.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
1:09 pm
Saul Good…I am willing to let the prosecutors handle voter fraud but if you do have a Walnut tape to edit I am sure Fox is willing to run the distortion. I mean they are Fair and UNBalanced.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:09 pm
Keep up the good fight! @ 11:35 am
“What is the last thought on a bug’s mind as it hits the windshield…”here comes an a$$whole”. Which is the same thing I think whenever Scout makes a post.”
Vitriol towards another poster instead of a reasoned exchange.
Thank you sir.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:10 pm
Bosch:
Have you never had a typo when posting on these threads ? Is that the issue or the subject at hand?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
“I’m not 100% sure how I feel about the compact, but in principle, anything that would serve to overturn our goofy electoral college’s capability of electing a President who doesn’t receive a majority of popular votes can’t be all bad”
I’m 100% against it…because it negates the votes of the citizens in each state and substitutes for them the overall vote of the nation. That makes the most populous states just that much more powerful in the voting.
My preference is something similar, but not exactly the same, as is done in Nebraska. Divide the electoral votes in each state between the two Presidential candidates based on each’s percentage of the votes won.
Simple, straight-forward, and easy. And it brings the allocation of the electoral votes much, much closer to “the will of the people” of each state. Though I could accept a modification as regards the “extra 2 votes” by giving them to the overall winner as chosen in the state (not by the national vote)
I absolutely DESPISE the “winner take all” system used in most states.
I wonder how many “states rights” proponents support that compact…not realizing that it TAKES AWAY power from the states?
Doomsday 2012
July 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
Let’s summarize. Corporations are entities created under state laws so that makes them ‘persons’ under federal law and allowed to have amendment rights. But states are not allowed to enforce federal immigration laws because states can’t enforce federal laws. Basically the SCOTUS has joined with the president, congress, and big business to usurp constitutionally protected states rights to screw the states and the peeps. “You say you want a revolution, well you know we all want to change the world”.
Bosch
July 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
“just where exactly did Mickey Mouse show up and vote?”
Orlando and Pasadena, duh.
Keep up the good fight!
July 29th, 2010
1:12 pm
Scout…when I see you post some reasoned exchange…I’ll be glad to post some back. I am just calling it likes I sees it.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
1:12 pm
Scout,
“Have you never had a typo when posting on these threads ?”
I now I nver habe.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:14 pm
sfd; 1:04; Isn’t it strange that Al Gore, the one person that has
suffered the most at the hand of the electoral college hasn’t
said anything about it.
neo-Carlinist
July 29th, 2010
1:15 pm
the issue is not the “legality” of Citizen’s United or whether or not corporations and citizens enjoy the same rights? the issue is, why do Americans continue to ignore the proverbial turd in the punch bowl? this mess begins and ends with our smarmy, shameless, pandering politicians. they either take special interest money, or they do not. and if Joe Honorable is defeated by Joe Pimp, because Joe Pimp took money from Big Coal, or Big Med, or Big Oil; how is this the fault of the union, or industry that backed a pimp? it’s not possible to shame the shameless. corporations are soulless, amoral, and driven by self-interest; and this is a good thing. unfortunately; politicians are also soulless, immoral and driven by self-interest, and this is a bad thing. see earlier post on “sureveilance” blog – “power does what it wants, and individuals do not have power – this is why a special interest group (corporation, religion, union, PAC,) recruits individuals to form a herd (socialism at its core).
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
1:15 pm
Stands, my specific concern is, if this move is successful, it will kill the Electoral College. For example, the majority of citizens of a state could vote Republican, but if the Democratic candidate gets the most popular votes Nationwide, that states electoral college votes would go to the Democrat.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
1:17 pm
Doomsday 2012,
“You say you want a revolution, well you know we all want to change the world”.
Sorry..The boomers sold their revolution to Nike a long time ago…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXhtFik-vI
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
1:17 pm
Are you people talking about voter fraud telling me it never happened. Have you read any books about LBJ? It is how LBJ ever got elected, for any office he held.
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
1:18 pm
JohnnyReb,
“it will kill the Electoral College.”
And that is a bad thing?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:18 pm
“will kill the Electoral College.”
It’s meant to
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
1:19 pm
I do not care about your politics . A fraudulent vote, DEM or REP can not be tolerated.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:20 pm
“And that is a bad thing?”
Yes, it actually is. The Electoral College system is meant to help equalize the “power” of states with smaller populations against states with much bigger populations. Which is why I’m against the compact, and also why I’m against the “winner take all system”
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
1:21 pm
A fraudulent vote, DEM or REP can not be tolerated. I don’t care what party you are.
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
1:21 pm
oops duplicate.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:23 pm
Keep up the good fight!
I will refrain from personal attacks against you no matter what you post or how you attack me vs. my opinions.
That’s just the difference between us I guess.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:23 pm
It is almost fraudulent voting to crossover vote in the primaries
to defeat a candidate that might win in the general election.
this occurred at all levels in 2008.
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
1:24 pm
Eliminate voter fraud, then we can concentrate on electing better people. We waste our time when we argue. Can we agree on that?
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:25 pm
Doggone/GA:
Why do you think the electoral college should go?
Should California also have 20 senators and Rhode Island only 2 ?
jewcowboy
July 29th, 2010
1:25 pm
Doggone/GA,
“he Electoral College system is meant to help equalize the “power” of states with smaller populations against states with much bigger populations.”
Kind of like a Senator from a state that has 1% of population holding up legislation that 70% want? Oh wait…
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:26 pm
“Why do you think the electoral college should go?”
Reading comprehension not up to par today? I’m don’t think it should go. Is that clear enough now?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:27 pm
“Kind of like a Senator from a state that has 1% of population holding up legislation that 70% want?”
You’ll have to take that up with the Senate
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:28 pm
Most corporations ARE people..I am a single person corporation, millions of americans are.
It seems to me to be an irrefutable statement of fact, or at least ought to be.
Observer
July 29th, 2010
1:29 pm
Ok. We’re on page 2 and not a single republican can answer the question so I’ll ask it again.
Can someone PLEASE explain why EVERY GOP senator opposes the Disclosure Act?
AmVet:
Nice try but that’s a given.
barking frog?
Bada Bing?
Scout?
MB12?
getalife?
*crickets*
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:29 pm
“OFF TOPIC #1″ (THIS IS A LITTLE SCARY)
Headline: “U.S. Army Stressed After Nearly Decade of War”
“Non-combat deaths among the force have increased steadily since 2001 to the point where the report says that in 2009 more soldiers died as a result of accidents and “high risk behavior” than at war.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/army-stressed-decade-war/story?id=11277253
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:32 pm
Doggone:
I assume you know that’s why the smaller states chose to join the union. A Senate composed of two per state and an electoral college.
Remember, the is the “Unites States” of America not the “United People” of America.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:32 pm
For Bosch:
Excuse me ……….. “this” and “United”
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:33 pm
Scout – I don’t know why you think you need to lecture me on the electoral college, but give it up.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
1:33 pm
Kind of like a Senator from a state that has 1% of population holding up legislation that 70% want? Oh wait…
yeah, I was working on a variant of that as well. But mine wasn’t nearly as nice as yours.
and DGA, sure, if every state had proportional electors–EVERY state–that’d be fine with me. But they won’t. And let’s face facts, the compact we’re looking at, it would only benefit Republicans as currently configured, so long as only blue states go for it. Far as I can tell anyway.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:33 pm
SPQR;1:28; You as an entity have more rights than a corporation. the corporation
can be bought and sold. you cannot.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
Remember, the is the “Unites States” of America not the “United People” of America.
Actually, Scout, and you might cry when you hear this, the United States of America is whatever we want it to be.
I’d be fine with abolishing every state boundary and going to geographical provinces. Some other century, perhaps.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
Rangel cuts deal, avoids trial…censure….likely to remain in congress..Harlem still safe from white interlopers….except bill clinton…developing…
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:35 pm
“and DGA, sure, if every state had proportional electors–EVERY state–that’d be fine with me”
No argument with that, but the bottom line is that the Constitution DOES leave the allocation in the hands of the states…not of the nation. So my (admittedly amateur admission) is that if that compact is ever used there would be a case for the voters to sue based on it’s being an unconstitutional allocation of the electoral votes.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:38 pm
@barking…ah BUT i as an individual have more LIABILITY than I as a corporation..so when I decide it’s time to blow out the company and head to Switzerland(my ultimate dream) the Corp will be an empty broken shell lawyers can play with like a retarded kid with a broken slinky.
roldawg70
July 29th, 2010
1:38 pm
i don’t remember the exact qoute, but didn’t mussolini say something like this
“fascism would best called corporatism”
mussolini and hitler had very close ties to their countries big businesses
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
1:40 pm
The pack by states to give their electoral college votes to the popular vote getter is, in my opinion, another “progressive” move to by-pass that pesky Constitution. Just like they complain of the Senate fillibusters. The outcome of such a pack could possibly go both ways, but my guess is supporters believe it will always benefit Democrats. To me, this is much more serious than issues about Citizens United.
Doomsday 2012
July 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
jewcowboy – Yeah, and that’s the problem. Dumb down the peeps with NCLB, let in lots of illegals that have to look the other way and the masters of the universe can and are doing whatever they want openly. It’s gotten so bad now about the only way to get back, get back to where we once belonged is to pull the reps on the 10 most corrupt list into the street and summarily behead them on national TV. Then maybe, just maybe, a few of the others would be afraid.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
Yes Mussolini and Hitler did have close ties to their countries big business..they defacto took them over..and Directed them what to build and what to lend..hey sounds like a certain president of a MONGREL RACE I know(his words, on the view)
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:42 pm
Observer; 1:29; not a republican but, jay explains it in his post as being a demo
power play which is automatically guaranteed to create unanimous repub
opposition.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:44 pm
Doggone:
I’m just asking for your views on why you believe it should be done away with? Why are you so sensitive? This is a debate site.
I don’t think it should be as smaller states need a little more clout.
Do you have an opposite viewpoint you would like to share ?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:45 pm
“I’m just asking for your views on why you believe it should be done away with? ”
I DON’T THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH.
Have you got that NOW?
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:45 pm
stands for decibels :
Strongly disagree ……… it’s what the Constitution says we are !
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:46 pm
Doggone:
But you are not saying why? I’m just interested in knowing “why” others would want it done away with.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
1:47 pm
The outcome of such a pack could possibly go both ways, but my guess is supporters believe it will always benefit Democrats.
Then those supporters are likely misguided.
And that’s where your concern puzzles me, somewhat. If you look at the list of states that’ve joined, they’re all blue. They stand to gain absolutely nothing if they agree to send their electors to the popular vote winner if that guy/gal’s a Republican. (Well, they would gain, I guess, by taking a stand on principle, I guess, but it’d be a pretty rough lesson.)
(I admit I have only a superficial understanding of the politics behind this, though.)
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:47 pm
SPQR; 1:38; Have you not heard about the ‘longarm statutes’ and extradition treaties?
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
1:48 pm
Keep up the good fight!@1:09 pm
“Saul Good…I am willing to let the prosecutors handle voter fraud but if you do have a Walnut tape to edit I am sure Fox is willing to run the distortion. I mean they are Fair and UNBalanced.”
FoxyNews can run it..as long as they have a bleached blond in a seriously short miniskirt that’s used to Bill O’s heavy breathing on the phone when his wife goes to bed… be the anchor on the topic… well…if that’s the case…I’m SURE we can have the “Walnut Tape” run there.;-)
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:48 pm
“I’m just interested in knowing “why” others would want it done away with.”
Then ask THEM. I’ve already told you that I flunked mind reading in grade school.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
President Obama calls African-Americans a ‘mongrel people’
Does this make him a racist? Would a white person saying that be called a racist?
Where is my racism slide rule..ok .. Racism(logxy) = Black(x) + institutional whitey rule(y) / Pi (x / y) = Yep
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
Strongly disagree ……… it’s what the Constitution says we are !
We actually agree on this. We the people are in Congrefs, so to speak. We decide what’s in the Constitution. We can amend it to read “Everything up to but not including this amendment is null and void, and the founders were a bunch of poopie-heads.”
Of course it is a huge pain in the butt to amend it, as it should be. But amend it, we can. We the people.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
Dunno, Andy. Maybe for the same reason that intellectually lacking cons are always trying to make artificial creations/non-human entities – corporations – into PEOPLE.
Before their judicial activists were paid to rule otherwise, corporations:
– Had charters that were granted for a limited time.
– Explicitly chartered for the purpose of serving the PUBLIC INTEREST
– Could engage ONLY in activities necessary to fill their charter
– Could be terminated if they exceeded their authority or if they CAUSED PUBLIC HARM
– Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts they committed while on the job
– Could NOT make and political contributions, nor spend money to influence legislation
But that of course was when the Unites States of America was not a wholly owned subsidiary of the New York Stock Exchange…
Finn McCool
July 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
the GOP is filibustering the small business bill??
Like a buncha children throwin fits in a toy store – first the mouth turns downward, then they throw or slam something, then they start wailing, then they lie down and start kicking and screaming.
Pitiful, just pathetic.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
@barkling..they’ll never take me alive..but it does suck for the poor homeless person I will have to do away with and burn beyond recognition after I alter my dental records to match theirs, so as to throw the b*stards off the track.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
1:54 pm
SPQR(laissez Faire) @ 1:42pm
gee… I guess you also believe that Obama and FEMA are finishing those GULAGS around the nation as well… I mean pretty soon they’ll be separating women from their husbands…and then children from their mothers… and our “target”??? repiblicanteapartylibertarians. Start packing your suitcases…. to make it easy for us…separate the valuables…
Not sure about you…but my own ancestors dealt with that… how DARE you equate Obama with those two…TRULY!
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:54 pm
According to the genome project all humans originated
in Africa thus making us all African Americans and
mongrels.
Scout
July 29th, 2010
1:54 pm
stands for decibles : close enough.
Doggone: I’m just “messin wit ya”. Can’t we have a little fun?
SPQR(laissez Faire): If a white President had said that about blacks the mainstream media would be going ballistic.
mongrel:
“1. a plant or animal, esp a dog, of mixed or unknown breeding; a crossbreed or hybrid
2. taboo a person of mixed race
3. of mixed breeding, origin, character”
……….. but Mongrel Obama gets a pass.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
The Three Laws of Capitalism
1) If you own it, you control it.
Except in corporate America where shareholders have virtually NO say at all in any of decisions made by the organization. In reality ONLY 10 – 20 very wealthy men (and a tiny smattering of women) call all the shots.
2) You are free to fail.
Unless of course you are “too big to fail”
3) No governmental manipulation or intervention.
Which means and end to the endless bailouts, handouts, subsidies and give aways.
Welcome to corpocracy.
Kamchak
July 29th, 2010
1:55 pm
I’ve already told you that I flunked mind reading in grade school.
Wanna wager on when you’re gonna have to post that sentence again?
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
1:56 pm
SPQR; 1:51; that might work.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:57 pm
“Doggone: I’m just “messin wit ya”. Can’t we have a little fun?”
Well, give that up too. I have a tin ear for that kind of “fun”
Normal
July 29th, 2010
1:58 pm
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
1:54 pm
SPQR(laissez Faire) @ 1:42pm
gee… I guess you also believe that Obama and FEMA are finishing those GULAGS around the nation as well…
Damn, I hope so…we need the jobs!
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
1:58 pm
“Wanna wager on when you’re gonna have to post that sentence again?”
Not on your life! I’ve already had to post it twice.
Normal
July 29th, 2010
1:58 pm
Mongrels are smarter that purebloods…just sayin’…
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:00 pm
“Mongrels are smarter that purebloods…just sayin’…”
Don’t bet on that either…especially as there’s no such thing as a TRUE “pureblood”
Normal
July 29th, 2010
2:00 pm
Corpocracy…
has kind of a brassy ring to it…like an over forty streetwalker…
Scout
July 29th, 2010
2:01 pm
Normal:
Don’t know about smarter but they usually live longer.
Doggone:
Sorry.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
2:02 pm
@saul, I don’t care about your ancestors, or anyone elses..along the way of history my own ancestors squandered a huge fortune so they are dead to me(literally) also..
I equate obama with hitler and mussolini only as applicable..the way obama took control of GM and even more brazenly, AIG, was NO DIFFERENT than the way Hitler commandeered Krupp, Deutschebank and AG Farben.
Not every comparison to Hitler means someone is genocidal to gypsies, slavs, and jews..although it is very telling the jews in Israel hold a 6% trust rating for HusseinO..sometimes it simply means they hold the same views on the rights of the state to trump private ownership.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
2:03 pm
AmVet;1:55; Look in your wallet. The dollar is one share of the U.S. The
number of shares you own indicates your control of the U.S.A Corporation.
That is how it started out. Then politicians got involved…..
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:03 pm
“Don’t know about smarter but they usually live longer.”
Don’t bet on THAT either. In my breed, the oldest known were a pair of sisters that died within a week of each other…at nearly 23 years old.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:03 pm
Jay, you are not alone in your clarion call.
Pick up a copy of the U.S. Constitution. Can you find the word corporation in it? You cannot.The U.S. Constitution guarantees you and me – living, breathing human beings, citizens of the United States – the right to free speech.
In one of the greatest affronts to our democracy ever, however, five justices of the U.S. Supreme Court decided in January, in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, that corporations have free speech rights just like you and me.And, decreed the Court, that includes the right to spend whatever corporations like to support or oppose candidates for elected office.
Corporations do not have First Amendment speech rights.
Yes, corporations already pour money into politics. But things can get worse.And, after the Supreme Court’s decision, they will. Consider this: In the most recent election cycle (2007-2008), a little over $5.2 billion was spent on all 468 congressional races and the presidential contest combined. In the same time frame ExxonMobil registered profits of $85 billion.Seventeen times the total amount spent on federal election contests.So, in just one election cycle, a tiny fraction of Exxon’s profits could be used to buy our politicians. Lock, stock and barrel.
There are measures available to mitigate the harm from the decision. We must have public financing of elections. We need better donor disclosure rules. The federal government should refuse to buy goods and services from any company with a federal contract (and states and locales should act similarly). Shareholders should be required to approve any corporate political expenditure by an affirmative vote.
Public Citizen is working on all of these.But while these measures can offset the damage from Citizens United, the only way to get corporate money out of our elections is to overturn the decision itself. That requires a constitutional amendment. Corporations are not people, and they are not entitled to the First Amendment’s protections of the expressive and democratic participative rights of real, live human beings.The only way to get that job done is with a constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United and establishing the principle that the First Amendment and our democracy belong to We, the People, not Exxon, GE or Walmart. ~Robert Weissman,President of Public Citizen
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
2:04 pm
Stands, I am by no means the expert, but here is my understanding. Take Bush vs Gore in the 2000 election. Gore actually won more popular votes – Bush 50,456,002; Gore 50,999,897. Bush was elected when the Florida recount gave more votes to Bush and the states electoral college votes went to Bush. Had the proposed pack been in place, the Florida issue would not have mattered and Gore would have been President.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
2:05 pm
Normal: “Damn, I hope so…we need the jobs!”
Shhhh…. didn’t you get the letter telling where to go? If not… make sure your “registration” card was completed in full. I heard that if you ever voted for even ONE Republican in your lifetime (even if registered to do so by ACORN when you were 6 years old)… you’ll have to show your “long form Hawaiian Birth Certificate” we were all provided with to gain entry.
Shhhh!
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:07 pm
“Bush was elected when the Florida recount gave more votes to Bush”
The Florida recount was never completed. It was stopped by the SC, and the Florida Secretary of State’s certification of Bush as the winner was allowed to stand, and THAT is what gave the votes to Bush.
Normal
July 29th, 2010
2:07 pm
Lest we forget…
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history
I remember when NASA meant Need Another Seven Astronauts…
lei mi sei
July 29th, 2010
2:08 pm
Stating a union or cooperation is a person is like saying the goverment is a person (since we pay taxes hence we have ownership.) Dumb and dumber. Let me tell you how much say I have in government affairs and decisions- A big fat “0″!
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:09 pm
barking frog at 2:03, that is a new one on me. I have never ever read or even heard of such a bizarre claim.
Did you just make that canard up out of thin air?
Normal
July 29th, 2010
2:09 pm
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
2:05 pm
Saul,
I was stationed in Hawaii for five years, will that count?
neo-Carlinist
July 29th, 2010
2:09 pm
AmVet, painfully agreed. did you see that Bank of America ($45 billion in TARP) has announced its second quater “dividends” for common stock shareholders? once again (last 6, I believe) .01. that’s not an dividend, it’s an insult. I wouldn’t half mind the stock trading at $15, if I was re-investing a .75 Q dividend and buying at $14, because I believe the “preferred” shareholders are getting $1.75.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
SPQR(laissez Faire) : “I equate obama with hitler and mussolini only as applicable..the way obama took control of GM and even more brazenly, AIG, was NO DIFFERENT than the way Hitler commandeered Krupp, Deutschebank and AG Farben”
Oh,,,so OBAMA did that ALONE huh?
Ever hear of a thing called a LOAN??? Being paid back with interest?
Thanks for not caring about my ancestors…glad there were those who did…
I win.
Know why?
Because it must SUCK… well never mind,,,you’d not understand…
go clean the “support our troops” magnet on the back of your car/SUV…. the very one you bought that never sent 1 penny to our troops.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
Had the proposed pac[t] been in place, the Florida issue would not have mattered and Gore would have been President.
But he wouldn’t have been. You keep missing the point I’m making–the states that’ve signed this pact had alread given all their EVs to Gore.
You’d have to have a bunch of red states signing on, that would say “well, a deal’s a deal, Gore won the popular vote”, to have a pact like this affect an election the Dem’s way.
That is what makes this, to me, kind of an academic exercise. I doubt they’ll string together 270 EVs worth of states to form the pact anyway, frankly, but who knows. Rubber would meet the road if those now-blue states have to make good on their agreement to elect a Republican who loses the EVs but wins the popular vote.
I just don’t see how Republicans lose, here, with the pact going the way it has to date. Obviously they could if a bunch of red states joined. you think that’ll happen?
Scout
July 29th, 2010
2:11 pm
Doggone:
What breed is that ?
Unfortunately, I have a male boxer with a serious heart condition not even five years old yet. He probably won’t be with us much longer. If you are a “dog person” you understand.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
2:12 pm
Normal:
“Saul,
I was stationed in Hawaii for five years, will that count?”
Only if you can provide a LONG FORM Birth Certificate… and show your birth announcement in your local paper where you were born…where it lists BOTH parents as being SOCIALISTS and/or COMMUNISTS…. if you provide those things…I’m pretty sure there’s a job waiting for you.
k…i’m out for a bit… see ya’s lata!
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
2:12 pm
AmVet;2:03; If SCOTUS said a corporation is a natural person
with rights thereof then: EXXON-MOBIL 2012.
Curious Observer
July 29th, 2010
2:14 pm
I suspect that the so-called compact movement arises from frustration with instances in which a presidential candidate wins the popular vote but loses in the Electoral College. There have been three elections in which the winner received fewer popular votes than the losers—in 1876, when Rutherford B. Hayes was elected; in 1888, when Benjamin Harrison was elected; and in 2000, when George W. Bush was elected.
I don’t expect the compact movement to go anywhere. Still, there’s no question that a lop-sided victory in the Electoral College often does not reflect the relative popular vote. Even Barack Obama’s easy victory in the Electoral College distorted the popular vote win.
Bottom line: the Founding Fathers made a deal with the small states. I can’t imagine that enough states would band together to provide 270 electoral votes. It would be an interesting Supreme Court case if they did.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
2:16 pm
AmVet: I’m sorry we got that ticket in 2000, and 2008.
Saul Good
July 29th, 2010
2:17 pm
Barking…just saw that as I was about to fold down the “hood”… funny!
Remember: Oil $140 a barrel under Bush when BP and EXXON made those record profits quarter after quarter while receiving massive tax breaks back in 2008?
Did those “profits” trickle down” yet????
See ya’s all lata…
roldawg70
July 29th, 2010
2:17 pm
i’m with am vet and some others
both parties, to one degree or another, or beholden to big business
oh if gov’t takes over a business that socialism
and i know few i mind if it happened
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
2:17 pm
The only sticker on my suv is calvin with a lawn dart in his head saying “Legalize JARTs”
I support the troops the old fashioned way..support untying their hands, pretty full immunity from any prosecution for anything done in a war theater to the enemy even if there is collateral damage..not like they planned it that way, things happen.., and support for gutting social welfare systems and doubling soldier pay with the savings.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:20 pm
frog at 2:16, what does that even mean? Seriously.
Trace500
July 29th, 2010
2:20 pm
The Disclose Act violates the equal protection clause and will be chanllenged on that basis.
Bosch
July 29th, 2010
2:21 pm
“the way obama took control of GM and even more brazenly, AIG, was NO DIFFERENT than the way Hitler commandeered Krupp, Deutschebank and AG Farben”
I don’t know how Hitler did all that, and don’t really care — but Obama did not take control of GM, they asked for a loan — as did AIG
That’s why wingnuts don’t need to run things — they are so ungodly misinformed and stupid.
jconservative
July 29th, 2010
2:21 pm
Jay I tend to agree with you on this issue. But the coal companies creating a “person” to buy congress is not going to create the notoriety needed to get your amendment passed.
It will take a foreign owned corporation incorporated in the USA doing the same thing to get the folks all riled up.
Citgo Petroleum Corporation is a US incorporated corporation owned by Hugo Chavez and the Venezuelan government. Those who admire Chavez and his politics may support the Court’s Citizens United decision. But I will bet that the vast majority of US citizens detest the man. And will end up detesting the Citizens United decision. Yet Citgo is a US citizen per the Supreme Court. The only thing they cannot do is cast a ballot. Yet.
Jay do your readers want Hugo Chavez spending $50 million on the next Georgia Senate race? Spending $50 million on the next US presidential race?
Karen Handel has made a name for herself fighting to keep aliens from voting. But she has not said a word about aliens spending $50 million to support a candidate. Bet she would holler if Hugo Chavez decided to spend that kind of money to support the Democratic candidate for governor.
Any way you cut it the Court blew this decision.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 29th, 2010
2:23 pm
Telling how readily you admit Hugo Chavez would back the democrat…
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
2:25 pm
Doggone, you are correct my mistake. From Wiki – The SCOTUS ruled against the recount and their decision allowed Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris’s previous certification of George W. Bush as the winner of Florida’s electoral votes to stand. Florida’s 25 electoral votes gave Bush, the Republican candidate, 271 electoral votes, defeating Democratic candidate Al Gore, who ended up with 266 electoral votes (with one D.C. elector abstaining). A majority (270) of the electoral votes is needed to win the Presidency or Vice Presidency in the Electoral College.
My point still stands. If the current pack underway to bypass the electroal college had been successful and was in place in 2000, Gore would have gotten more electoral college votes and we would all be wearing green jumpsuits.
Bosch
July 29th, 2010
2:27 pm
Reb,
Yeah, but I’d much be wearing a green jumpsuit instead of thousands of soldiers killed for nothing and our economy tanking.
Billings Up
July 29th, 2010
2:32 pm
Mr. YES WE CAN be popular again has demoted the once proud dem party to the dumbest bunch of f*cks ever party.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
2:35 pm
If the current pack underway to bypass the electroal college had been successful and was in place in 2000, Gore would have gotten more electoral college votes and we would all be wearing green jumpsuits.
I’m going to say this only one more time–this could ONLY happen if a sufficient number of red states participated in the pact.
Seriously, are you not getting this?
Of all the things to be frightened of, the notion that Al Gore is going to get all the states to join the pact, and then fire up the WABAC machine and re-play 2000… let’s just say that if he could do that, he’d probably decide instead to spend a few hundred bucks to instruct elderly Jewish voters how not to accidentally punch the hole for Pat Buchanan.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
2:38 pm
AmVet; 2:20; It means that without oil company backing you will
not be POTUS.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:38 pm
“What breed is that ?”
Whippets
“Unfortunately, I have a male boxer with a serious heart condition not even five years old yet. He probably won’t be with us much longer. If you are a “dog person” you understand”
Yes, I do understand indeed. I just lost a 10 year old Whippet to cancer. WAY, WAY too young.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:39 pm
“I don’t expect the compact movement to go anywhere. Still, there’s no question that a lop-sided victory in the Electoral College often does not reflect the relative popular vote”
But that is not, strictly speaking, the fault of the Electoral College. It is the fault of how the state allocate their Electoral Votes. The “winner takes all” system distorts it.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:40 pm
Though I’ve not agreed with him very often, he was spot on this time:
President Obama called it “a major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to drown out the voices of everyday Americans.”
Five judicial activists on the Supreme Court, and five of the worst justices in American jurisprudence – Kennedy, Alito, Roberts, Scalia and Thomas – overruled two major precedents and swept aside a century-old understanding of free speech.
They sold the American CITIZEN down the corporate polluted river. They played along to get along. Nothing more.
Consequences be damned for the plutocracy and oligarchy enablers.
SOVEREIGNTY FOR SALE!
roldawg70, thank you.
Many, many, many Americans are starting to wake up to the systematic destruction of our “noble experiment”. Just as Lincoln and many other very wise men long ago foretold.
82% of Americans agree that business has too much power over too many aspects of our lives. And that was in 2000. Certainly that percentage has gone up.
But the amazing aspect of all of this is how in the world can 18% of us be so damn dumb?
Observer
July 29th, 2010
2:40 pm
Trace500
July 29th, 2010
2:20 pm
Finally, we are making some progress.
EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE
Portion of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibits discrimination by state government institutions. The clause grants all people “equal protection of the laws,” which means that the states must apply the law equally and cannot give preference to one person or class of persons over another.
So you believe the Disclosure Act violates this amendment? You have my interest. Can you please elaborate?
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:42 pm
“he’d probably decide instead to spend a few hundred bucks to instruct elderly Jewish voters how not to accidentally punch the hole for Pat Buchanan.”
sfd – have you ever actually LOOKED at that ballot? Apart from being illegal, according to Florida law on ballots…it WAS confusing.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:47 pm
“AmVet; 2:20; It means that without oil company backing you will not be POTUS.”
Oh. OK.
So am I to infer that you advocate for theat heinous ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission? And against public financing of elections and better donor disclosure rules?
@@
July 29th, 2010
2:49 pm
I don’t normally check out ml’s cartoons, but this one?
Bad call. Why use Chelsea and her wedding to bring up Bill’s past?
Cheap shot, ml.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:50 pm
Justice Stevens, in dissent, was compelled to state the obvious:
. . . . corporations have no consciences, no beliefs, no feelings, no thoughts, no desires. Corporations help structure and facilitate the activities of human beings, to be sure, and their “personhood” often serves as a useful legal fiction. But they are not themselves members of “We the People” by whom and for whom our Constitution was established.
Curious Observer
July 29th, 2010
2:50 pm
sfd – have you ever actually LOOKED at that ballot? Apart from being illegal, according to Florida law on ballots…it WAS confusing.
And like the asp that stung Cleopatra and disappeared from history, so the lady who designed that ballot pleaded stress and resigned, never to be heard from again. Yet, she probably had more to do with the course of modern U.S. history than any elected or appointed official.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:52 pm
“Cheap shot, ml”
I agree
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
2:58 pm
“the lady who designed that ballot pleaded stress and resigned”
Yep, but you know, just as with the “Congress passes, but the Pres signs the bill” thing – it wasn’t truly SHE who was at fault. It was the fault of whoever approved it.
It kind of reminds me of a story from back in the days when seat belts were first introduced. Some ad agency was tasked with creating “pro-seatbelt ads” and they created one that made it all the way to the (as I heard it) President of the sponsoring company before it was killed. The slogan? “If you love your kid, belt ‘em”
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
2:58 pm
Thanks to decades of rulings by Justices who molded the law to favor elite interests, corporations today are granted privileges that empower them to deny citizens the right to full self-governance. For example, the Supreme Court has:
* prohibited routine inspections of corporate property without a warrant or prior permission, even though scheduling such visits may permit a company to hide threats to public health and safety. (Marshall v Barlow’s, 1978)
* struck down state laws requiring companies to disclose product origins (International Dairy v. Amnestoy, [pdf] 1996), thus creating “negative free speech rights” for corporations and preventing us from knowing what’s in our food.
* prohibited citizens wanting to defend their local businesses and community from corporate chains encroachment from enacting progressive taxes on chain stores. (Liggett v. Lee, 1933)
* struck down state laws restricting corporate spending on ballot initiatives and referenda, enabling corporations to block citizen action through what, theoretically, is the purest form of democracy. (First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti).
Kamchak
July 29th, 2010
2:58 pm
It will take a foreign owned corporation incorporated in the USA doing the same thing to get the folks all riled up.
Not if you have a high profile lobbying firm to spin it for you.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
Yes, DGA, I’ve seen the ballot, and if I left anyone with the impression that I was making fun of people who made an honest mistake, that wasn’t my intent.
“Cheap shot, ml”
I agree
Well, yeah, but if you’re going to take cheap shots off the table, I don’t know how a political cartoonist is going survive for long.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
3:00 pm
AmVet;2:47;I don’t like public financing as it exists that is in
the way POTUS snookered Mccain in 2008. OK with campaign
disclosure without revealing donors.Haven’t read CUv.FEC.
Doggone/GA
July 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
“Well, yeah, but if you’re going to take cheap shots off the table, I don’t know how a political cartoonist is going survive for long.”
Cheap shots are fine, as long as they have some truth in them and are at least somewhat funny. This one was just nasty and nothing else.
Sick of Repubs
July 29th, 2010
3:07 pm
Iowa GOP Embraces Plan to Scrip Obama’s Citizenship for Accepting Nobel Prize
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/29/iowa-gop-embraces-plan-to_n_663621.html
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
Ok, DGA and @@, I surrender. You’re right.
The toon isn’t funny. Chelsea isn’t a political figure (save for some campaigning for her mom in 2008), she’s barely a public figure, really, and she has done nothing whatsoever to deserve this.
Normal
July 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
I thought it was funny.
JohnnyReb
July 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
Bosch, my thoughts have included you. Grief is tough but also a blessing. There is grief only when there was love.
stands for decibels
July 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
Hair-dyed SQUIRRELS upstairs.
WhoAreWeKidding
July 29th, 2010
3:18 pm
Businesses had their hands in the honeypot we call guvment well before this decision and they will for a long time after regardless of any attempts to change that. Water always rolls down hill.
Trace500
July 29th, 2010
3:19 pm
The ambiguous nature of this legislation’s language attempts to intimidate businesses and non-profits into not running any ads this November, for fear that they might somehow be violating federal election law by doing nothing more than talking about the issues. This bill blurs the distinction between express advocacy for a specific candidate and mere issue advocacy. Expressing support for an issue is not the same thing as expressly endorsing a candidate. This legislation does not make a distinction between the two, and, as a result, organizations running ads this November could face expensive lawsuits after the fact for allegedly violating some unwritten enforcement provision.
One of the main arguments made for this legislation during House debate was the claim that this bill would decrease the amount of money spent on elections. That is an outright falsehood. Nothing in this act would decrease the amount of money it costs to run for public office; rather, by restricting third-party fundraising and advertising it actually increases the amount a candidate would need to raise, thus again favoring incumbents who have a natural fundraising edge over challengers.
Senators Schumer, Feingold, and Leahy claim on their site: “When you buy toothpaste now, the money you spend can be used directly for television ads attacking people that you believe in without you even knowing.” The senators provide no evidence to back up these claims; it appears they are quite paranoid about Colgate and Crest having a political axe to grind against them.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1034
El Jefe
July 29th, 2010
3:19 pm
Corporations pay taxes and can be sued in a court of law. Sounds like they already are “people”
But, I think all it would take is for the SCOTUS to rule against the person-hood of a corporation.
But, the dims would loose all that tax revenue and the people might get to pay a few pennies less for an item or two.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
3:21 pm
frog, do you agree that our system for financing presidential and congressional campaigns is fundamentally corrupt and pernicious?
And whether you do or not, I contend that this current Rep/Dem – Rep/Dem monoploy stinks, that it’s for sale and that it’s corrupt.
Apparently the vast percentage of Americans agree with me.
Time for action. Time to reclaim our democracy from the accelerating grip of dirty-money politics and concentrated corporate owned media.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
3:24 pm
“Corporations pay taxes…”
Some do, some don’t.
And given the chance, the plutocracy enablers in the neo-con movement would see to it that none do.
AmVet
July 29th, 2010
3:24 pm
Just ask Eric Johnson, who campaigned on reducing taxes for Georgia corporations to ZERO.
Dave
July 29th, 2010
3:41 pm
Millions of people out of work but Obama still supports the Unions. He hates the ideal of any American who is willing to work hard to reach the American dream, hates the very thought of free enterprise.
Want to vote for a Democrat? Get in your car and see the factories that are close, look at the unemployment lines. See your friends loss lose their home or know of people who have been out of work for over a year. In Obama’s mind his agenda is working. is it?
@@
July 29th, 2010
3:42 pm
AmVet:
It looks like The Disclose Act might knock out any opportunity for your third-party candidates. Ron Paul supporters are vehemently opposed to HR 5175.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDaArRXI_AU
Scout
July 29th, 2010
3:59 pm
Doggone:
Wow! I had no idea they lived that long.
barking frog
July 29th, 2010
4:01 pm
AmVet;3:21;the system consists of candidates financing themselves
along with soliciting donations which has no limits or accepting
government financing and limiting the amount of money they can
spend. this is neither fundamentally corrupt nor pernicious. The
2 party system basically gives us middle of the road politics
which is not a bad thing in itself. We should be able to see
false campaign promises and vote accordingly but its
usually the pretty boy on tv that wins.
BADA BING
July 29th, 2010
7:24 pm
In response to an earlier blog about Republicans……….BADA BING is not a REP, I am a Realist, I vote for a qualified candidate, not a party line.
md
July 29th, 2010
7:54 pm
I see Jay is still on his soap box downstairs about corporations spending money to influence elections, yet nary a word about Cox Enterprises being allowed to do it……………
SCOTUSblog » Friday round-up
July 30th, 2010
9:25 am
[...] in campaign financing” by “confer[ring] closely with willing moderate Republicans.” The Atlanta Journal Constitution’s Jay Bookman instead proposes a terse constitutional amendment: “A corporation or union is [...]
Friday round-up Internet Related Technologies Friday round-up
July 30th, 2010
11:25 am
[...] in campaign financing” by “confer[ring] closely with willing moderate Republicans.” The Atlanta Journal Constitution’s Jay Bookman instead proposes a terse constitutional amendment: “A corporation or union is [...]
Friday round-up | theConstitutional.org
July 31st, 2010
7:25 am
[...] in campaign financing” by “confer[ring] closely with willing moderate Republicans.” The Atlanta Journal Constitution’s Jay Bookman instead proposes a terse constitutional amendment: “A corporation or union is [...]