Reality therapy can be harsh for those with repressed memory

anybody who dares to look back more than 18 months is deemed guilty of “dredging up the past,” which has become a thought crime of the highest order.

Well, how else is a Republican to make himself/herself look like a viable option in future elections. You just gots to be able to wipe that slate clean before commencing to trickle down on it all over again.

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And copied from below. Apparently John Kerry (remember your standard-bearer in 2004 along with the wife-cheating, baby-making, ambulance-chaser?) believes in tax cuts for himself – just not the rest of us:

Have you been reading about the hoopla surrounding the now senior senator from Massachusetts, John Forbes Kerry, and his $7 million yacht and his dodging of taxes in Mass.? Seems he’s tried to avoid paying both excise taxes in his town and state taxes of almost $500k for luxury goods by mooring his New Zealand-built (what’s the matter, John, U.S. manufacturers not good enough for you?) 70-foot “Isabel” in neighboring Rhode Island, where they have no taxes on luxury items such a yachts.

After he tried to throw trust-fund wife Theresa Heinz under the bus for being the owner, he finally agreed to pay up the owed taxes.

But the more interesting thing is what Howie Carr of the Boston Herald wrote regarding the luxury boating industry thriving in Rhode Island, largely due to a favorable TAX policy. He writes:

“At least for the maritime industry, Rhode Island has embraced trickle-down economics. As a friend of mine who knows a lot about boats says, Rhode Island’s no-tax policy “has encouraged the development of a marine industry that earnestly caters to yachts and commercial vessels, centered around the Town of Middleton on the western shore of Narragansett Bay… sail makers, caterers (sailors have to eat) marine mechanics, radio-servicing companies and the like….
“Mass. has a few good yacht marinas, like McDougall’s down in Hyannis, but these businesses are few and far between… Were I Kerry, I would never be able to find the quantity or quality of marine professionals in Massachusetts that are available in Rhode Island. This is pure Reaganomics – a great economy that is a direct result of a sound and easy taxing policy.”
Imagine Kerry coming clean and explaining that indisputable truth – that Rhode Island’s maritime industry has forged ahead of Massachusetts’ because they’ve rejected his – and his party’s – crackpot confiscatory tax policies, at least for one industry.”

As Carr so aptly writes: “Why the long face, Sen. Kerry?”

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This is very traumatic.

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By the way, Jay, the only viable solution to global warming is to burn more coal and the only way we can afford to do that is if people like Massey get a big tax credit (not just a tax cut) and a extra large helping of de-regulation. And the sooner the better. Also, you could help matters a lot if you would spread the word that we all need to be nicer to folks like BP and Massey and even Goldman Sachs and maybe even apologize for any past bad words spoken and even give out some words of praise and thanks, maybe on Sundays. K.

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Jay – “Like the fact that there was no “mini-recession” after 9/11? ”

well, technically, 9/11 happened in the middle of the “mini-recession”

http://www.nber.org/cycles/july2003.html

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Ahh yes…I recall yesterday a few who kept saying but “Obama is President” NOW…and not Bush any longer. Yet they never want to account for the fact that Obama INHERITED this recession…and two wars… and those things came from an Administration that started those wars… and cut taxes as opposed to ever financing them… which was a big part of the reason we ended up with such a severe recession in the first place (along with the housing bubble)…

Yet jay’s right…and I’ve asked many over and over and over here… just WHAT would the republicans do different right now if they were in charge? Either I get no answer or the usual “cut taxes”… the very same thing that didn’t work and that helped nearly sink this ship in the first place.

Did we cut taxes during WWII while our debt was increasing?

The party of “cut taxes” fails to take blame for their failed economic policies which lead us to this near depression… by casting blame on Obama they become laughable because I’ve not seen ONE bill that offered to help fix the economy or create jobs drafted by them which differed from the very same failed principles that caused the mess.

Try a NEW approach republicans… first start by admitting that cutting taxes created NO jobs. It in fact LOST jobs… millions of them by time Obama took office.

First you have to PLUG the hole to stop the leak. He’s done that. It take a while to fill that HUGE CRATER left behind from the failed economic policies from the last administration. Least you could do is grab a shovel or bucket and start doing something to help fill the hole you dug. It would be “American” and “Patriotic” to do so… stating on the sidelines whining and screaming never solved any problems. Certainly not helping this one.

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Jay,
you’re trying to help the campaigner and chief but unfortunately the past doesn’t resonate with the American people. The latest CBO report paints a grim economic picture, so the problem you have is attempting to live in the past while the country has to live in the present and future.

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Yea, let’s do history.

Your little job growth chart is in direct correlation with the growth of a parasitic Federal government.

(see the Czech Republic, Argentina, USSR, etc……………..)

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It’s a good thing that, according to Republican theory, tax cuts don’t require any corresponding cuts in spending to pay for them. All they require is someone willing to finance them under the Republican “Tax Cuts to Go, no accumulated interest or payments for ten years plan”. Now, where have I seen that plan before. If only I could remember.

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Saul, in case you missed it, Hope & Change has failed to plug the jobs leak or the economic leak.

Just sayin’ . . .

And don’t give me that “what have the Republicans proposed” garbage. They can’t propose a single thing. It can’t even get into a committee for a reading the way that Princess Pelosi has the House organized. Try understanding the process before you complain about it.

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Immediate Post-9/11, USinUK, not current market trends.

The frozen into inaction part? Both then and now, though.

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nice try, but you don’t get to create your own facts.

Hey, that’s not fair to the Republicans. How will they be able to survive.

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Quite a few posts already and yet not one from the cons that dares to even acknowledge the facts about the economic performance during the Bush Administration.

The decline of net worth, zero net job creation, and the decline of middle class incomes…pesky facts.

By all means, let’s return to the economic policies that were so effective…

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Well, like I said many times before, I want my Tax Cut, I demand my Tax Cut, and if I don’t get my Tax Cut me and a whole bunch of Tea Partiers are going to drive our pickups up to DC and lay down on the Congress floor and hold our breath and kick and scream till we get our Tax Cut.

Don’t try and confuse me with facts, Bookman. You know where you can shove your facts. Just because there ain’t been no jobs created since 1999 is no reason to say more Tax Cuts won’t create some. You always got to wait a few decades to see some results. Heck, it’s only been 30 years since the Reagan Tax Cuts and we’re still waiting for Trickle Down to happen. It just takes a long time, is all. One day all us little people are going to be driving around and feel a tiny sprinkle and then we’re going to get a flood of Trickle On like we would get if the dam busted. Just you wait and see.

I bet you’re the kind that really likes telling little kids there ain’t no Santa Claus, ain’t you, Bookman? What a low-down skunk!

I’m disgusted. Have a good day everybody.

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Gammer: how much is the economy and tax collections down? 25%??

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“Yeah, Jay, we wouldn’t want to equate the stock market dropping like a rock and businesses frozen into inaction as anything else, now would we?”

Stock market dropping like a rock?

Stock Market first day of Obama in office: 7949

Stock Market TODAY: 10,521

So… The market being up over 30% in 18 months SUCKS? Tell me…. where do you invest that you get better returns? Sounds to me like the Stock market and investors LIKE what Obama has been doing…if not…it would be DOWN…just like it ended after 8 years of Bush.

That’s okay…historically for over 100 years Democratic administrations have ALWAYS reigned over more successful stock market results compared to Republicans. They just want you to THINK that the market performs better under their administrations….nothing could be further from the truth.

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Bookman: “What was the primary economic strategy during that decade that we are now supposed to block from our memory banks and pretend never happened?”

The answer, more specifically, is tax cuts that apply primarily to households where most of their income is unearned (i.e., inheritance, dividends, and capital gains) and those at the top of the income ladder, thereby ultimately shifting the long-run burden of taxes to the poor and middle class who receive most of their incomes from setting their alarms and going to work every day (notice that Paul Ryan’s Roadman introduces a regressive consumption tax).

Let’s also recall that another aspect of the conservative (so-called) economic strategy is to decimate protections for consumers, workers, the environment, and small investors.

Nothing has changed in their, now secret, platform.

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Gammer – “USinUK – I’m quite sure Dave R was referring to 2007-08 and the failures of Bear Stearns and Lehman.”

what would that have to do with the economy under Obama (the topic of Jay’s post)???

“How much is the deficit up since Obama took office? 25%??”

easy one: the price of 2 wars, which had NOT been included in the budget under Bush.

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Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

No thanks, I’m keeping mine. Every time some Anti Obama person tries to make a fuss about it, I get to insult and embarrass him in front of his friends, wife and girlfriend. It’s fun and almost too easy because all they spout are talking points and have no real idea of what America is all about. Their version is what they get from The Justice League Comic Books….what a “laffer”

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“What is it with conservatives and their desire to pass along debt to their children, seeing as how they never want to pay for what they use?”

there ya go. typo fixed, at no charge

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(cranking up the stereo)

Holy CRAP!!! That made me LOL!

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“The answer, more specifically, is tax cuts that apply primarily to households where most of their income is unearned (i.e., inheritance, dividends, and capital gains)”

yeah, and they spend all their free time playing polo on unicorns.

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Jay:

Since you like economics so much, how about a thread on this ?

Headline: “CBO BOMB: ‘Deficits will cause debt to rise to unsupportable levels’…”

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Normal:

I like someone who goes down with the ship !

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Scout, ‘Since you like economics so much, how about a thread on this ?’

And just how would President Scout propose to balance the budget?

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“Well excuuuuuuuuse meeeeeeeeeee, USinUK!”

um. is that you’re example of a “reasoned argument”??

just wondering.

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“The GOP represents 2 blocs of constituents – Big Business and Big Money. Yet they pander to the primal needs of intellectually-challenged voters: religion, false patriotism, racism,, homophobia, selfishness and greed.”

Yeah, they really should dumb dowm their campaign slogans for these “intellectually-challenged voters”. Is “Hope and Change” still taken?

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No, because, really, who gives a crap?

Speaking of which, have I mentioned recently that I have defecated greater beings than Howie Carr?

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N-GA,

You forgot those who are fighting for their right to be uninsured.

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“You forgot those who are fighting for their right to be uninsured.”

Ain’t dat da truth!

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g’morning, Bosch! to paraphrase Nina Simone, it’s a new dawn, it’s a new day and I hope you’re feeling good … well, if not good, at least okay …

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If the news was good they wouldn’t have to dredge it up. The powers that be would be shoving it down your throat.

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Dave R. : “The leak isn’t plugged, it has only slowed down. But at the cost of trillions of dollars of new debt (and NOT merely because of the war reporting as USinUK alleges) that freezes available cash to help private firms expand when they see an opportunity to do so.”

Really? How many jobs a month are we losing now…I’d say it stopped. Yes there’s a cost involved… just like we created MASSIVE dept. from the New Deal AND from WWII… it took that massive government spending to end the Great Depression…NOT cutting taxes. Regardless if you credit the New Deal or WWII for ending the depression…it still came down to massive government spending and massive debt because of it (spending)… did our nation collapse? No…it ended the collapse and it was all being paid back by every administration until Reagan took office. That’s the TRUTH my friend. SPENDING ended the great depression…not tax cuts.

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Well, to hell with that. Let’s blame Bush anyways. It’s what we Democrats do best.

^^^^^^
Fixed your typo, Jay.

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I wonder if Jay gets sufficient sleep. He must stay up all night piecing together his voodoo economic statistics for his blog topics that attempt to defer attention from the present economic mess we’re in. You lib’s enjoy a nice day of commiseration. later

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Del,

“his voodoo economic”

Nah, he just looks up “Ronald Reagan” on Wikipedia.

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Yeah, Bosch, we wouldn’t want to point out the obvious disconnect between a wealthy (third wealthiest member of Congress) former standard-bearer of your party trying to avoid taxes just like you claim the conservative rich try to avoid their taxes, now would we?

Because THAT might negate all your poutrage over the rich not paying their “fair share”, and we can’t have that, can we?

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Dave R – “No, USinUK, it is my response to your insistence on using a proper term for what happened following 9/11, in complete disregard of your acknowledging the actual fact.”

the economy hit its trough in November following 9/11 then started to improve. I don’t really know why you want to argue that fact – particularly as you haven’t offered any evidence to the contrary whereas I’ve posted the NBER’s judgement on the matter.

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USinUK,

I’m still in the “design” phase. Nothing yet. Will let you know.

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“former standard-bearer of your party”

My party? Where? When? What time?

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Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:43 am

Scout,
The difference between you and me, in spite of all of our shared experiences, is that you haven’t figured out that both political parties don’t give a rat’s patooie about you or me. They will both slap us on the back, thank us for our service (all the while cutting our bennies), maybe invite is to a barbeque ($5.00 at the door), tell us how they plan to right the wrongs the other Party caused and then…when our backs are turned…we get two knives in our back…one red and one blue.

I only give the Democrats the benefit of the doubt because a little of what they try to do makes sence. Nobody yet has been able to explain how tax cuts as the answer to all woes and the cure for dandruff really works. Until they do, I just laugh.

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All you ‘armchair economists’…….. throw away your college textbooks and NY Times articles. Economics have changed, they are not the same as when you went to college, hell they are not the same as a year ago. The old models have been thrown away. Up is down, right is wrong. Old rules don’t apply, it’s a brave new world, and you and I will not like it.

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USinUK & Saul: Spin it all you want. Kennedy himself preached it. Tax cuts = job growth. And what about that “primary economic strategy during that decade of the 1980’s” that led to job growth?

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“Kennedy himself preached it. Tax cuts = job growth.”

Some people really don’t get relativity.

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Additional expenditures on plant and equipment will immediately create more jobs in the construction, lumber, steel, cement, machinery and other related capital goods industries. The staffing of these new plants-and filling the orders for new export markets-will require additional employees. The additional wages of these workers will help create still more jobs in consumer goods and service industries. The increase in jobs resulting from a full year’s operation of such an incentive is estimated at about half a million.
————————————————————

Seem to me that most of the jobs created by tax cuts ended up being jobs created for India, China, Viet Nam, Mexico, etc. Yeah lot’s of help there…

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And Saul, you’re kidding about that war question right? You do remember that Vietnam conflict and the Cold War, right?

From Wikipedia:

In 1961, the USA had 50,000 troops based in Korea, and Kennedy faced a three-part crisis—the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao communist movement[92] These made Kennedy believe that another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his own reputation. Kennedy determined to “draw a line in the sand” and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam, saying, “Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place”, to James Reston of The New York Times immediately after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna.

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Note the subset of the Howie Carr article I posted above regarding the booming boat industry in Rhode Island. Made possible by a virtual no tax policy on luxury yachts and larger boats.

Tax cuts aren’t the only answer, but they sure do help.

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Most discouraging.

That the faithful would regurgitate up that grammar school cr@p, “The economy was fine until…”

Whose rear end have you had your heads up??? What planet have you been living on?

The American economy has been little more than smoke and mirrors for decades. A house of cards built on an illusion.

70% of our entire GDP is based on SPENDING!

American families are debt riddled and unable to keep up with basic expenses, while the relatively tiny plutocracy lives very, very high on the trickle down hog. And you morons shuck and grin for them!!! And against yourselves and families!!!

Only in America can sheep be led so willingly to the slaughter.

And the job numbers? They’ve been a total farce for a long time.

People who had good, well paying jobs watched as they were shipped overseas by the millions.
They then re-entered the work force – eventually – in schlep retail jobs, etc. And now that is barely even possible.

You delusionists should be institutionalized…

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Normal – 10:07 – cue the “blame the unions” anthem

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Bosch – be careful of going out on limbs … Normal still doesn’t want to talk about it …

Ritz crackers??? ooooo … aren’t WE fancy schmancy!

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Jay,
The Swiss banking industry thinks your post is a bit one-sided and would appreciate it if you would also highlight the tremendously stimulative effects that US Tax Cuts have had on the Swiss banking industry.

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TGT…and we had troops stationed in Japan and Germany as well… The Korean war? That was in the early 50’s!

bay of pigs??? You’re going to equate that with Iraq or Afghanistan????

Also…the Cold War was simply part of our Military Industrial Complex which allowed us to spend MASSIVE amounts of our tax dollars on defense spending…but we were NOT sending troops around the globe to combat the Soviets and Communism… well at least not until Vietnam… and STILL what did Nixon lower the tax rate to when he was in office? 70%…NOT 35 %

Come on…you can do better…i know you can…

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@@ said: “Be the MASTER of your OWN destiny”

Oops…for a second I thought you said “be the master of your own domain”… and George Constanza popped into my mind.

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Saul Good – King of the Castle?

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so much for the NRB ban …

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Hmmmm….wonder what that number would have been if the Dems didn’t take control of Congress in 2006. Wonder what that number would have been if Frank, Dodd, and Clinton didn’t push through legislation that created a huge bubble in our housing market.

Jay, you say that Cons are wrong for getting on anybody who blames things on the past admin. The problem is that the Libs are still not taking ownership for even their legislation recently passed, much less the stuff they pushed through in the past. Can you please do us all a favor and tell us when this admin and this Congress actually assumes responsibility for their actions? Just give us a date. Nobody has done that yet and I think it would really bring closure on this issue if somebody would finally say “From this point forward, we are accountable our policies and are willing to accept the consequences, both good and bad, for our actions.”

I thought Obama campaigned that he would bring hope and change. He said he would bring change and that is what his voters believed he would do. I haven’t seen the change. Have you? No, its the same BS politics, same blame the other party, the same lack of transparency, the same lying, the same lack of accountability or responsibility. Even when he tries to accept responsibility, he manages to blame somebody else and for the most part, it is conservatives and the previous administration. People voted for him because he said he would solve it all. We are still waiting. But hey, at least he solved the problem on what non-allergenic dog he should buy for his kids in 6 months, which is a lot more time he spent on real issues affecting this country.

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You guys keep talking about top marginal rates as if you want a return to 77% or 91%! So if it was SOOO disasterous that those rates were cut and cut through the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s, WHY DID WE HAVE CONTINUED JOB GROWTH???!!!

And what about that growth from 2003 to 2008?

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“There were tons of tax dodges available to anyone making that much money”

as opposed to now.

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“You guys keep talking about top marginal rates as if you want a return to 77% or 91%!”

yeah. that’s EXACTLY what we’re advocating.

oy.

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“You delusionists should be institutionalized…”

AmVet…but…but…but, that would be socialism…

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I’m enjoying this trip down memory lane. Thanks Jay!

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TGT – “And what about that growth from 2003 to 2008?”

you mean the job growth that was driven by the housing industry?? and the housing industry that was built on leverage??

that bubbly job growth?

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Also Jay, In looking quickly at past tax rates and comparing them with the chart you showed, you see that since the 60’s the overall tax rates have pretty much gone down over time and guess what, our job growth continued to go up. This data that you presented showing one decade, is pretty much garbage. It is not conclusive in any way.

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Lord Help Us:

Quit spending like a maniac !

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Obama ……….. the David Blaine of Presidents.

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The miserable economic track record is, in part, a quirk of timing. The 1990s ended near the top of a stock market and investment bubble. Three months after champagne corks popped to celebrate the dawn of the year 2000, the market turned south, a recession soon following. The decade finished near the trough of a severe recession.

But beyond these dramatic ups and downs lies an even more sobering reality: long-term economic stagnation. The trillions of dollars that poured into housing investment and consumer spending in the first part of the decade distorted economic activity.

Capital was funneled to build mini-mansions in Sun Belt suburbs, many of which now sit empty, rather than toward industrial machines or other business investment that might generate economic output and jobs for years to come.

“The problem is that we mismanaged the macroeconomy, and that got us in big trouble,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Global Insight. “The big bad thing that happened was that, in the U.S. and parts of Europe, we let housing bubbles get out of control. That came back to haunt us big-time.”

The housing bubble both caused, and was enabled by, a boom in indebtedness. Total household debt rose 117 percent from 1999 to its peak in early 2008, according to Federal Reserve data, as Americans borrowed to buy ever more expensive homes and to support consumption more generally.

Tax cuts had zero to do with the bubble based economy. It was bad lending and inesting practices. Mostly it was people biting off more than they can chew.
If you make $50,000 you cannot afford a $300,000 house that is actually worth $160,000.
Bubbles don’t happen if consumers don’t make stupid decisions.

There’s reality…Choke on it.

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but but…corporate profits are up…doesn’t that mean everyone is raking in tons of money from their stock portfolio’s…who needs to work?

Wait…you mean some people don’t have stock in Dow and Caterpillar? They use the money they make to put food on the table rather than invest in Berkshire Hathaway? Pathetic losers…let ‘em starve to death if they aren’t strong or smart enough or have been born with connections on Wall Street.

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You know ………. sometimes there is justice in this world. Just think about this:

Every time Miss Hillary sends Chelsea a Christmas card, birthday card, anniversary, “whatever”, she is going to be reminded of “insky” (Marc Mezv”insky”/Monica Lew”insky”) and Bill will catch it all over again ………………

(That is unless she plays the women’s lib. card and doesn’t take his name)

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I was a Cub Scout…

Obama hates the Boy Scouts of America but I bet if the name was Muslim Scouts of America he would be in attendance.

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USinUK
re: 9:46am ..well I guess the NBER must be a fairy tale to him!!

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NRB3, ‘Social security, medicare/medicaid, foreign aid, end the two wars, pull out all military bases around the world, save ohhhhhh I don’t know 50-60% of the spending?’

Which candidates support your position? Why?

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Daddy why do you hate the Boy Scouts?

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Do you not understand that the criminal child-molestors in Washington need to (gasp!) spend less?

When I see that kind of statement Jason Vorhees pops into my head…

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USinUK,

“so the better the employment rate, the stronger the demand for their goods” …”

Take a look at Harley-Davidson…motorcycles sales have tumbled…but they are raking in higher profits now..after slashing workers.

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Scout, ‘First to go would be the Deparment of Education. That is a state matter/function.’

How much would that save?

‘I would bring in the experts and believe me we would find it.’

All you have is a commission of ‘experts’ and getting rid of the Dept of Ed…You got a long way to go, pal…

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AmVet @ 9:27 – Amen brother!

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Otay Republicans…

Here’s what I propose…let’s DO AWAY with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Will cutting those “socialist” programs and all they cost us work for you? Think of all the SAVINGS and JOBS we would create by getting rid of those pesky Government “Socialist” programs.

Which of you will sign up first and pledge to do all you can to eliminate those programs?

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‘Which is why we need more Tim McVeighs’

Cons…he’s one of you…proud?

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NRB3 – your 10:38 comment was totally out of line, not out of character but definitely out of line.

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LOL…whatever makes you feel better about this incompetent and pathetic joke of a president we now have in office, have at it.

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USinUK , (from your 10:49am post):

Which relates to: Obama’s Fault post from above your own:

Here’s one for ya:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2004-01-20-fha_x.htm

Posted 1/20/2004 1:31 AM

Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
By Thomas A. Fogarty, USA TODAY
In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.

In announcing the plan Monday at a home builders show in Las Vegas, Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher called the proposal the “most significant FHA initiative in more than a decade.” It would lead to 150,000 first-time owners annually, he said.

Nothing-down options are available on the private mortgage market, but, in general, they require the borrower to have pristine credit. Bush’s proposed change would extend the nothing-down option to borrowers with blemished credit.

The FHA isn’t a direct lender, but guarantees loan payments for mortgages on moderately priced owner-occupied property. The FHA guarantee now permits private lenders to finance as much as 97% of the purchase price of a home for millions of low- and middle-income borrowers.

In the proposal soon to be delivered to Congress, Bush would allow the FHA to guarantee loans for the full purchase price of the home, plus down-payment costs. As a practical matter, the FHA would guarantee mortgages as high as 103% of the value of the underlying property.”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SO… it was BUSH who literally stomped his feet begging the FHA to do NO MONEY DOWN LOANS FOR AS MUCH AS 103% of the homes appraised value.

Still looking for WHOM to blame with the housing Bubble crashing? Try looking at the Bush administration. It’s a good start.

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NRB

“Which is why we need more Tim McVeighs.”

Do you actually believe this or are you just trying to stir up sh*t?

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“let’s DO AWAY with Social Security”

but remember…if you do away with Social Security, you ALSO have to stop the SS deduction. That means lowering INCOME, not just expense.

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cons will never admit they are clinging to a failed ideology and will vote for it again knowing it destroys their country and causes a depression.

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LHU
Calling NRB one of the cons because of that McVeigh comment is as over the line as the comment itself…

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jo nix – 10:57 – it’s crap like that that got him banned …

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Scout July 28th, 2010
10:45 am
“First to go would be the Deparment of Education. That is a state matter/function.”

Not quite – it’s BOTH state and federal functions! Note of all of the federal monies that go to higher education…particularly in student grants and loans! What about the RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS that the government subsidized (like GT, UGA, MIT, Texas….).

There are areas in the government that can be eliminated:

1) Government procurement: Note the multiples for each area of government; merge into ONE department!
2) Eliminate no-bid contracts and cost overruns…particularly in military contracts
3) Close tax loopholes for corporations that take jobs offshore
4) Streamline the tax code…

That’s a beginning…..

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I think NRB3 has some mommy issues to work through…

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USinUK : “Saul Good – King of the Castle?”

ABSOLUTELY!

Not that there’s anything WRONG with that.

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Scout, ‘I’d get ‘er dun !!’

Dude, it’s ‘Git-R-Done!’

If you are going to quote one of my heroes, please do so accurately…

Also, your inability to articulate any ideas (other than the Dept. of Ed.) on how reduce the budget speaks volumes about the depth of your ideas…

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Doggone: “but remember…if you do away with Social Security, you ALSO have to stop the SS deduction. That means lowering INCOME, not just expense.”

Shhhh!!! Please don’t try and confuse them… They don’t look at things that way…

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jn, ‘Calling NRB one of the cons because of that McVeigh comment is as over the line as the comment itself…’

Do you think he is ideologically conservative, moderate or liberal?

If the shoe fits…

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Lord Help Us: No, your just not going to take up all of my time this morning.

NRB: If you said that you are on very thin ice.

HDB: Fair Tax !

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“But it’s so much FUN!”

Must be why we keep coming back for more!

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Is Jeremiah Wright ideologically conservative,moderate or liberal?Just playing the game you started.

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“WHY have they not created JOBS???? We STILL have the tax cuts. So…WHY are companies NOT hiring? ”

Saul, because there is no LEADERSHIP at the top.

And HDB, I’ve always been consistent about the need to raise taxes to balance this budget and get rid of the deficit, but like many I want to see the cuts FIRST, just to see that someone in Washington is addressing the real issue first and is serious about it.

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LHU

I think he’s a piece of sh*t if he believes that and where he falls on the political spectrum outside the is not even at issue…

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“welp, I’m still blasting Everclear (Songs from an American Movie, pts 1&2) … I’ll pick up the beer bottles – you and Bosch get the ashtrays”

it’s okay…Jay never notices the smoking… Just remember to fill his Gin and Vodka stash with water to the little line he made on them

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Jay,

How about some commentary on the SEC claiming that sweeping new financial regulations laws exempt the SEC from public disclosure under the FOIA.

Transparency?

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otay…gotta edit some stuff here in my studio dungeon … i’ll try to keep up with ya’s all if i can…

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Nah USinUK…he should “threaten them” to do so… they like that “control” kinda stuff (if you know what I mean).

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Saul – “Just remember to fill his Gin and Vodka stash with water to the little line he made on them ”

dangit, now he’ll know what we’re up to!

he was just kidding, Jay … we would never touch the good stuff …

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““Just remember to fill his Gin and Vodka stash with water to the little line he made on them ””

I actually remember doing that. Sad.

Looking under couches……now!

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I don’t think most people are foolish enough to think the gang of flat-earthers who were spirited into the White House in 2001 were good stewards of the economy.

only peripherally related, but see also:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141557/Democrats-Maintain-Advantage-Generic-Ballot.aspx

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If you’re wondering why Scout was asking about the Scouts:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_07/024918.php

On his radio show, Glenn Beck also went after the president over the Boy Scouts’ event, which suggests we may be hearing more about this from the usual suspects.

And the right wants to complain about Obama sending a pre-recorded message to the Boy Scouts? This is evidence of some kind of scout animosity? Please.

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SAUL
I found that Reagan cheese series of comments somewhat amusing. I was eating commodity cheese when he was still putting Bonzo to bed at the local movie house! But I CAN remember when he was talking about handing it out…probably the only time I was ever in favor of a Reagan proposal!

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“And maybe pull back on the regulatory nightmare as well.”

hehe…yeah..that all started with Obama…..

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Dave – yes, really! according to the right, the gummint should stay the hell out of “the market” (which can do no wrong) … so, what kind of “leadership” can he offer that would be acceptable / not qualify as “socialism/fascism/nazism/communism/any other -ism du jour”

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If taxes are too low, they should be raised to increase tax revenues, if taxes are too high, they should be lowered to enable the economy to grow.
Taxes should be at the optimum level.
Today, taxes are not too high, cutting would only decrease revenue and increase the deficit. Taxes on the upper bracket are too low today, and should be raised next year to increase tax revenue and decrease the deficit.

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I’d suggest a great website by Rep. Paul Ryan (one of the brighter members of Congress from either party on the economy, taxes and deficits) and his Roadmap for America plan.

I know it doesn’t have many pictures for some of you posters out there, but maybe some of you others can explain it to TaxPayer and Midori when they come up with their inevitable questions.

http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/Plan/

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sfd – and Reagan also “snubbed” the Boy Scouts at a Jamboree

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Josef… I only remember reading about it back then and seeing them talk about it on the news (pre-cable news)…never got to taste it i “thought”…BUTnow looking back… I can pretty much bet that since I was in HS and college in the 80’s…I’m pretty sure that I DID in fact eat some…if not MUCH. Nothing like pouring some kinda yellow cheese-like-product on your burger (which was in fact grey) while in the lunch line if you opted for a Cheeezeburger instead of a hamburger.

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and Reagan also “snubbed” the Boy Scouts at a Jamboree

IOKIYAR. See also: Bowing to foreigners.

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Dave – I gave the link a very quick skim, but there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of “there there” – he talks a lot about reviewing / projecting but doesn’t talk about what needs to be done to either cut or restructure.

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“end of the month fare = tuna casserole with noodles and peas ”

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Now, full blown shivers.

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They are called butter beans.

One of my favorites.

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Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
11:10 am
“And HDB, I’ve always been consistent about the need to raise taxes to balance this budget and get rid of the deficit, but like many I want to see the cuts FIRST, just to see that someone in Washington is addressing the real issue first and is serious about it.”

Dave…my question has always been this: Why didn’t the nation finance its WAR EFFORT with a tax increase? Name me a moment in American history that we didn’t finance wars witha tax increase save now!! That’s the first cause of the problem. Second: the government HAD to spend money to start getting the nation out of the recession; it was the ONLY economic engine capable of doing so until private sector decides to step up!

Government was also the catalyst of changes in the health care system; such changes could make health care less expensive for corporations…and could positively affect hiring; note this from the Washington TIMES (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/26/maryland-reports-health-care-savings/):

Md. could save $829M under health care reform
By Brian Witte ASSOCIATED PRESS – Associated Press
10:52 a.m., Monday, July 26, 2010

ANNAPOLIS, Md. (AP) — Maryland could save about $829 million on health care costs between fiscal year 2011 and 2020 because of federal health care reform, according to a model the state released Monday.

The savings, however, last only until the end of the decade, when the federal law shifts a greater share of financial responsibility for Medicaid expansion to the states.

The projections are in an interim report by Maryland’s Health Care Reform Coordinating Council, which Gov. Martin O’Malley created in March to study how the federal health care reform law will affect the state.

While the report emphasizes that current and future projections are fluid, it cautions that the state must stay committed to reducing overall health care costs. That’s because Maryland is projected to spend $46 million more in fiscal year 2020 as a result of health care reform than it would without it.

Private industry could affect change as rapidly as the government!!

Scout July 28th, 2010
11:07 am
HDB: Fair Tax !

Read that one, too…that won’t work either! The prebate isn’t high enough to negate a 35% tax increase on the middle class…..but a 22% cut on the wealthy (over $5M). The fair tax does nothing but shift the tax burden DOWNWARD!! If the nation would return to the Clinton-era tax rates, close tax loopholes, freeze spending for two years and raise taxes 7%….we could get out of this economic hole!!

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USinUK, leadership takes many forms. During the Great Depression, FDR used something as simple as a fireside chat to address the nation and exude confidence. No apology tour from that man. Eisenhower led by example. JFK, too. I have my problems with GWB, but I have great admiration for how he handled the days and months following 9/11. He showed a rare streak of leadership during that time, possibly the only good thing he did in 8 years.

You didn’t hear the blame game coming out of their mouths during the hard times. They also had people in their Cabinets who knew what it was like to work in the private sector. This President’s circle of advisers totals just 7% of their work experience in the private sector. You can’t govern what you don’t understand. That is why they are failing at nearly everything they touch, with more failures to come as their policies take effect in a few years.

Leadership isn’t trying to please the dumb masses. That is American Idol thinking. But that’s what we’ve got sitting in the Oval Office until 2012 at least.

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“he also skipped Arlington on memorial day, but as you say … IOKIYAR”

yeah…but Reagan had that right…since he was born here in the US and not in Kenya.

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josef nix

July 28th, 2010
11:08 am

Josef,
Public school lunch’s…I remember them well…black eyed pea sanwiches, yummy.

Actually that was my first stab at organized crime. Down in Hinesville you had to buy a little stamp sized ticket for one lunch for $0.25.
Every Monday in homeroom, I had to get a head count of how many people wanted them and how many per kid. I hated the job at first. I noticed that a few kids never bought them and later I noticed that they would sit alone outside the lunch room. Asking around, I found out they weren’t eating because their parents weren’t able to afford it.

I had discovered earlier that the Principal’s Secretary never really counted how many tickets you said you had and I was selling extras for a dime a piece for “RC Cola and a Moon Pie” money with my best friend. Life was fun and I felt like John Dillenger…then my Robin Hood complex set in and I started rationalizing I was stealing from the rich (down with the establishment!) and giving to the poor. The poor kids got a lunch on the house. Nearly got me busted though when a teacher noticed the poor kids were eating. Their parents swore they were buying them and saved my little arse(short version). By the beginning of the next year, the Secretary wasn’t counting again and life was again good. Robin was back! Yeah, I think I must have been a Liberal even then…

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Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:26 am

Remember, Ryan’s proposal was so draconian that the REPUBLICANS did’t even agree with it!! ( I have read it!)…..

Only the top 1% would get a break under Ryan’s proposal! So much of the tax burden would be placed on those who wouldn’t have the discretionary income to compensate for the increased taxes!!

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“black eyed pea sanwiches, yummy.”

What the hell? Geez, you old people had it rough.

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Dave – fireside chats weren’t the ONLY thing that FDR did – it was a small part of how he turned the country around during the depression. in fact, if he didn’t do everything else, I don’t know that the people would have listened to him.

“apology tour” and “blame game”

cliche much? show me one time when Obama actually APOLOGIZED – one quote where he said that the US was wrong and oh, how sorry he is.

as for apportioning blame – that would carry a lot more weight if we didn’t hear 8 years of Bush blaming Clinton for everything tha went wrong.

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NORMAL! I didn’t read the rest of your story – I had to comment on the sandwiches!

You’re the man!!!

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Saul – “since he was born here in the US and not in Kenya”

they relocated Chicago to Africa? damn, I leave the country for a couple of years and you guys go and lose one of our better cities … I can’t trust you people with anything nice …

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Jay, exactly where has raising tax rates worked? Please explain.
Being the good Liberal that you are….are you also in the mold of Tax Cheats Tim Geithner, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, Charlie Rangel….
No wonder they raise taxes, THEY don’t pay them.

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jo nix – 11:39 – I’ll see your tuna casserole comment and raise you with an ANYthing made with “cream of mushroom/chicken/celery” soup …

dave – warm canned tuna … hot grilled tuna steaks are pretty darned yummy!

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“There is possibly nothing worse on this earth to eat than warm tuna fish.”

I used to think that too, AND I was always taught you never eat cheese with fish…until someone turned me on to macaroni and cheese, with tuna fish. Now I’m hooked!

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Balance Our Budget
July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

What is it with liberals and their desire to give the government more of their money?Do they think the government can spend it more wisely then they can?

Well, as a matter of fact, yes. I’m an accountant. I cannot build roads, maintain national parks, run a justice system, ensure public safetly, educate everyone, regulate businesses so that they don’t sell me poisonous food, etc. etc. etc. all on my own, with just my paycheck.

But, my contribution, in the form of taxes, along with the contributions from the rest of our citizenry… GOLLY GEE just look at all we can build and accomplish together.

Sadly, too many people on the right want all the benefits I listed above, but don’t believe they have to pay anything for it. They want tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and somehow think all these things will simply materialize for them– mostly via borrowing from future generations — and, as a cherry on top, reap the benefits from the mind-boggling expenditures related to a couple of endless wars.

Borrow borrow borrow, spend spend spend. And tax thee, not me. And each individual build his own roads and fund his own court system because each individual can do it SO much better than the government can…

/eyeroll

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dave – “if every time before they went into battle they heard, “Well we’re gonna get our butts kicked today . . . “.”

evidence? see Italy.

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Doggone – Mac’n Cheese with a little salsa stirred in … yummmmmm

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Actually…they’re the only ones who CAN. And they do it by buying goods and services. No buyers, no hiring.

Bingo. Nail on the head.

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Oh, by the way, the commodities were a gift from FDR

Norm–
You would have like my 6th grade teacher…She was from one of those old aristocratic Suth-un families rich enough to buy G-d. Those lunch tickets were color coded at our school…white for those who paid full price and purple for those who were on welfare. Miz A paid for their lunches full price “I am not going to have those children stigmatized in the lunch line. That’s just not right and that’s all there is to it.” She also bought their school supplies, Christmas gifts for the names they drew, clothes and all that kind of stuff, winter coats, shoes…

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Obama (from his acceptance speech to run for President):

“America, our work will not be easy. The challenges we face require tough choices.”

He said it from the beginning… but those of our friends on the right don’t want to hear how he ALWAYS said that it won’t be easy…

also from his acceptance speech :

“Now — now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American.”

Same promise EVERY recent president made…yet HE followed through…

more:
“Now, many of these plans will cost money”

and finally:

“America, our work will not be easy. The challenges we face require tough choices. And Democrats, as well as Republicans, will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past, for part of what has been lost these past eight years can’t just be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits. What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose, and that’s what we have to restore.”

Obama ALWAYS said it would be “hard”… yet those of our friends on the right never listened to his speeches…they only listened to “sound bites” edited by Fox, Rush, etc…

Yet still the best offered from the right is to cast “blame” on Obama who has been trying to fix all he inherited… worst economy since the Great Depression.

AS if McCain and Palin could have done a better job… just by choosing HER out of ALL republicans in our nation to be VP…he “failed” the second he made that choice. For those who believe that SHE was in fact the BEST choice out of ALL republicans in our nation as a VP…there’s your problem.

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Dave – and nowhere in there did he say “I’m sorry”. Acknowledging our past – particularly our missteps in S. America – isn’t the same as apologizing.

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“if I could lend you some of my constitution, I would”

I appreciate the thought. Nope, none of that. But I’ve always looked on my distaste for them the same as my distate for alcoholic beverages…as a way to keep me alive. I am the world’s CHEAPEST drunk, and I’ve no doubt if I actually like the stuff I’d be long gone. But as it is, it ALL tastes like rubbing alcohol to me!

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Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:37 am
“You didn’t hear the blame game coming out of their mouths during the hard times”…..

Not just the HARD times…but ALL times! The nation blamed Nixon; Cater blamed NIxon; Reagan blamed Carter; Clinton blamed Bush; Bush blamed Clinton; Obama blamed BUsh…..so the saga continues!!

“Leadership is trying to SCARE the dumb masses. ”
There…fixed your statement!! That’s all this division politics is! Republicans scare the masses against anyone of color and Democrats;Republicans play class warfare to scare the have-nots into giving more to the haves; Democrats scare the masses against Republicans because the RRepublicans are NOT looking at the populace at large…just the haves!!

If this nation had effective leadership, those that have-not and those that have could find common ground…but it pays more to keep us at each others’ throats!!

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Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
11:53 am
….AS if McCain and Palin could have done a better job… just by choosing HER out of ALL republicans in our nation to be VP…he “failed” the second he made that choice.

And I suppose you believe that Joe Biden just dazzles with his brilliance, hmmm???

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Globalization (embraced by Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2) means multi-national corporations have shipped U.S. jobs to Mexico, India, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, etc.) It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the jobs are sent elsewhere, we don’t have jobs. Duh. And since we don’t have jobs, we don’t have spending $$$. And the stock market is just a Ponzi scheme in which we who have jobs are all forced to participate in (401k’s, etc.) Since there are few or no alternatives now for investment, everyone is sending their hard earned savings to Wall Street. Stock prices go up because everyone is buying stock, not because the stocks have intrinsic or lasting value. Wall Street has made sure that all of our savings are channeled into their pockets. The only real industries we have left in the U.S. are war production and fossil fuel production. We should be leading the world in solar technology, solar hot water heating, battery technology, fuel cells and advanced catalysts, EV’s, maglevs, high speed rail, etc. but we are held hostage by the robber barons and Wall Street. China is now leading the rest of the world in energy efficient, non-polluting technologies, while we allow flat earth types to deep-six any type of progress. Obama and Chu are trying their best to make us competitive and forward thinking, but the entrenched energy interests and Wall Street have a vested interest in the U.S. remaining a fossil fuel dependent, war-mongering third world oligarchy.

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Carrot and raisin salad is another one…bleeeach…right up there with lime green jello-fruit c*cktail mold…they gotta be on the table for the get-together, but that don’t mean you gotta eat it!

Okay, it’s the Paula Dean Justin Wilson in me. but I confess to the cream of mushroom soup…not the cream of chicken or cream of celery, though…

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Jason: “And I suppose you believe that Joe Biden just dazzles with his brilliance, hmmm???”

Actually yes I do…and compared to Palin? Are you kidding?????? Hmmmmm????

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Josef: “Carrot and raisin salad is another one…bleeeach…right up there with lime green jello-fruit c*cktail mold…they gotta be on the table for the get-together, but that don’t mean you gotta eat it!”

You do know what jello is don’t you? 9I know you do)….I don’t think most kids would eat it if you told them what it is…I mean pour an equal amount of sugar on ANYTHING and it will taste sweet.

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Dave – “Uh, yes, it is.”

no. it really isn’t.

someone catches you shoplifting and you admit it – is that the same as saying that you are sorry for it? no. the catholic church acknowledging that it covered up years of pedophilia amongst its priests – only recently have they apologized for it, despite acknowledging it a few years ago.

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“the people who have the money are the only ones who can create the jobs! When will you guys ever learn that fact?”

Actually that’s not true – if there is no one to buy their stuff, then they have no jobs.

And whoever wrote that the poor people do not create jobs – that’s not true either. They buy goods and services just like anyone else (which creates jobs).

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Bosch,

“What the hell? Geez, you old people had it rough.”

http://www.theslot.com/kraftdinner.html

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USinUK,

“ohmygod – a Southern staple.”

A very BAD Southern staple – kind of like pickled pigs feet — I mean, damn, how desperate do you have to be to eat that?

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“I’ve been saying that all along. Bottom line, the ONLY people who actually pay taxes are the retail consumers. Always.”

And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.

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Just for you Saul, and there’s plenty more:

. “Look, John’s last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number-one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S, jobs.” –Joe Biden

4. “A man I’m proud to call my friend. A man who will be the next President of the United States — Barack America!” –Joe Biden, at his first campaign rally with Barack Obama (Watch video clip)

3. “When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.” -Joe Biden, apparently unaware that FDR wasn’t president when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that only experimental TV sets were in use at that time

2. “Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me.” –Joe Biden, speaking at a town hall meeting in Nashua, New Hampshire

1. “Stand up, Chuck, let ‘em see ya.” –Joe Biden, to Missouri state Sen. Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair, Columbia, Missouri, Sept. 12, 2008

When it comes to “foot in mouth”, Palin is no match for this buffoon. Care to compare? Hmmmmm???

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Øbungle didn’t invent economic disaster. He just turned it into an art form. JB, since you love taxes, why don’t you pay mine? Even if I didn’t have to pay any taxes it still wouldn’t compensate for my loss of potential income, the decline in my portfolio and property values, and the general depression is knowing that a blithering idiot is charging full speed ahead with the total destruction of MY country and ME. There will be no relief until January 20, 2013 @ 2 pm when someone who can count to 21 without taking off all his clothes will take over and steer The Ship of State hard right.

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jewcowboy@ 12:02,

Damn. I’m gonna need more therapy. And good thing I haven’t had lunch yet.

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Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:42 am
“HDB, my solution would have been to not have any war effort in the first place.”

So, we DO agree that the wars were misplaced efforts by Bush….rather than the targeted approach that SHOULD’VE taken place….to go get bin Laden (but we all know Bush couldn’t do that since he and Daddy were on the bin Laden payroll (Carlyle Group – 11th largest defense contractor…with Poppy Bush and Shafiq bin Laden on board!)

“But then, I look ahead to the long-term issues before deciding on a course of action. That being said, you CUT some other program first, then only raise taxes if you can’t pay for it.”

Since the war precluded that logical approach….and the persistent cost increases that the economy generates….wasn’t a tax increase necessary at that point??

Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:56 am
“Acknowledging our past – particularly our missteps in S. America – isn’t the same as apologizing.”

Uh, yes, it is.

Actually, it’s BETTER than an apology! Acknowledging our past mistakes allows the President to show that the nation can be HUMBLE….rather than the “arrogant, ugly American” that we are considered to be worldwide!! Don’t forget: Bush had the WORLD on our side at 9/11….and wasted the opportunity for the US to really assune the leadership role of the world by playing the role of a cowboy…rather than being a SURGEON!!

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Okay… “dad’s” still not home… that’s it…it’s after 12pm and I’m going after his beer stash in the fridge…always easy to “apologize” and say I’m sorry after consuming everything he had.

Gee…come to think about it…that sounds a lot like Bush…but I’ve yet to hear the apology.

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Saul – always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

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Dave R.,

“And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.”

Yes…people will rejoice when they pay over $5 for a gallon milk or an extra $200 in taxes on that new laptop..it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…

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it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…

which is pre-zacktly why other nations are falling over themselves to adopt this brilliant revenue scheme!

oh wait.

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““And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.”

Yes…people will rejoice when they pay over $5 for a gallon milk or an extra $200 in taxes on that new laptop..it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…”

Yeah Dave R., – cause there is no way I’m eating that stuff that jewcowboy posted. Ain’t gonna happen.

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well, guys and gals … I’ve had about as much fun as one person should legally be allowed …

have a good night! see ya manaanananana

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Once…that’s pretty much on par with everyone from ANYWHERE with the means who owns a yacht in our nation. I mean how many live in different state and dock their boats in Florida, Newport, the Caribbeans, etc…

See me? I failed to see any on the right complaining about this (and it never was reported on Fox):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/cheney-spends-iraq-annive_n_92314.html

Cheney Spends Iraq Anniversary Fishing Off Sultan Of Omans’ Boat

Vice President Dick Cheney went fishing in the waters between Oman and Iran on Wednesday, borrowing the Sultan of Oman’s 60-foot royal yacht for the mission.

A Cheney spokeswoman said the vice president, his wife Lynne, and daughter, Liz, a former State Department official who is traveling with her father as a private citizen, headed out under sunny skies into the Gulf of Oman on “Kingfish I,” owned by Sultan Qaboos bin Said.

Go ahead…see if you can find it on Fox….

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Guten Nicht USinUK!!

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Independent,

You’re late to the game…i posted earlier how the stock market is up over 30% since Obama took office…

Know a place I can get a better return on my investments?

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Once “Recent” Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
Addendum: I meant the worst of the job losses were from sping/summer 2008 through end rest of year and up to March 2009 . . . .not through winter of 2009 which would include end of 2009.

Revision: The worst of the job losses BEGAN on September 11, 2001; those losses continued until January 1, 2004! The second iteration of worst job losses were sping/summer 2008 through end rest of year and up to March 2009 . . . .not through winter of 2009 which would include end of 2009.

Look at the job losses in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and LA immediately after 9/11……

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USinUK,

You’re really just running off to make that Kraft Dinner and Tuna Sauce aren’t you? I know Bosch can’t wait…

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A private sector empolyee said:”Actually, Jay, there was plenty of job creation from 200-2006. When the DEMOCRATS took over Congress, job creation took a nose dive. If you want to look back to blame someone, look at job creation and Congressional party control… ”

Tell us, employee, exactly WHAT bills did the DEMOCRATIC Congress pass that Bush signed into law that caused this drop in jobs? Name 5….OK…name 3.

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USinUK

July 28th, 2010
12:11 pm

OOOohh no. For a “train wreck” look no further than this Administration and this Congress. Of course if you are saying Joe Biden is a genius, that says it all.

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You’re really just running off to make that Kraft Dinner and Tuna Sauce

UHG!

I mean…is that even something one can classify as being “food”???

What’s the limit on the amount of ingredients labeled before something simple becomes a “chemical compound” instead of being called food?
ACK!

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Saul Good,

“Know a place I can get a better return on my investments?”

If you actually have a job that gives you a salary that allows you extra money to invest….

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Obama Administration’s plan for all BAD things.

1 BLAME BUSH
2 TAX THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MORE AND MORE AND MORE
3 BLAME BUSH
4 CALL ALL THAT OPPOSE RACIST
5 BLAME BUSH THEN RAISE TAXES

How’s the plan so far?

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Josef… Hey… my family always went to the “deli” and bought “tongue”… (not me…as an omnivore youth I stock with the pastrami)…. and i know many a Non-jew who will fail to even entertain the idea of eating Gefilte fish… must be that “jelly like substance” (which is the same as jello minus the sugar and food coloring)…

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casual observer

Seems a shard of jagged untruth is lodged in your head.

Let’s review your list:

1 BLAME BUSH – what rational person doesn’t blame Bush?
2 TAX THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MORE AND MORE AND MORE – why not tax them some more. tax rates are at their lowest in decades for many groups. The real question is: Is he taxing the RIGHT people?
3 BLAME BUSH .. see #1
4 CALL ALL THAT OPPOSE RACIST .. yeah you may have a point there. then again. what’s glen beck done to help this problem?
5 BLAME BUSH THEN RAISE TAXES .. see #s 1 and 2

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The Bush years were infinitely better than what our current leadership has wrought with ideological stubbornness for statist splutions for everything. I feel less free, more worried and less prosperous . I am genuinely frightened for the future under the Obamacrats. And the big tax increases are just starting.

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Once…I agree with your post. I grew up “on the water” in Long island… my dad had a boat that we kept out in Montauk (trust me it was no Yacht) … most of the boats there had “foreign” registrations. I too have been to Newport many times and it sure is purty (though I prefer Block Island)… but in Newport you’ll also find many of the yachts there are registered in far away places. People who own big boats dock them/register them in many places… I can’t begin to tell you how many I know in NY who have their boats docked in Florida and registered in the Islands… just another loophole. Do I blame the Kerry’s for doing that? Nope… not when Rupert (who own fox) does the very same thing….

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Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
12:27 pm
Josef… Hey… my family always went to the “deli” and bought “tongue”… (not me…as an omnivore youth I stock with the pastrami)…. and i know many a Non-jew who will fail to even entertain the idea of eating Gefilte fish… must be that “jelly like substance” (which is the same as jello minus the sugar and food coloring)…

Hey…nothing’s wrong with gefilte fish….kinda like it myself!! Also a good matzoh soup, lox and bagels!!

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Tuna fish over grits with Texas Pete’s…yummy!”

Normal, I like you, but no.

Leave the grits out of it…..prefer tuna over potatoes, onions, mushrooms, with Tabasco!!

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Casual Observer . . . .the Admin has been extremely quiet on this Race thing. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the Networks (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS) regarding the Tea Party rallies and what has been displayed regarding pictures of our President. But the Admin has stayed away. On the flip side . . .the Republicans/Fox were very quick to work up there own “Reverse Racial” stories around NAACP, Acorn, Immigration . . . .especially where they kept saying an Illegal Immigrant Killed the Rancher for quite a while . . . .this very well could be the case, but police officials have only said they “suspect” that is the case. Remember for a while there Mid-Easter terrorists bombed Oklahoma City! I still say this Admin has stayed away from that fray . . . but when the President gets dubbed as a Racist directly and indirectly over and over again . . .it may be time for the Admin to speak up!

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jewcowboy

This one…the guy who did it was “one of ours” I’ve got it and I like yours, too!

http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9780898151893

BOSCH
That is if they’d let you in!

SAUL
Gefilte fish…bleech…enough to make you convert!

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Hearkens me back to a day when the dot-com bubble and OBL’s declaration of war against us couldn’t be mentioned. At that time we heard tax cuts wouldn’t effect the unemployment numbers and Bush 43 should’ve stopped 9/11 because of a vague memo from a month earlier.

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To the idiot naysayers: you missed my point completely! I didn’t claim that either party was responsible for the job losses of 2007-2010! My only point was that if you can pick an arbitrary date and blame it on Bush, then I can pick an arbitrary date and blame it on the Democrat Congress (which, by the way, is a heck of a lot better time-fit for lost jobs). Jay wants to pull out a dumbass arbitrary time period, so will I. The tear-down of the wall between investment houses and traditional banking, combined with skyrocketing raw materials prices (including energy) combined with derivatives gambling caused that loss of jobs. NOT Pres Bush and NOT the Democrat Congress of 2006. But Jay says “to hell with that” and pulls dates out of his ass to fit his stupid-statistic-of-the-day and to feed you anti-Bush trolls. So I did my only creative dates-out-of-the-ass trick. So you idiots who say “show me some legislation”… screw you. You have been pwned!

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ncgreybr: Read my post again. Deficits rose because the political class in power did not collectively believe deficits mattered. The CURRENT ruling class does not believe deficits matter. If you don’t believe that, please explain to me what Obama and Congress have been doing!

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josef,

If I was hungry to the point that I would have to eat pig ears and feet and snouts and such, I’d find a way in the house, believe me.

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DawgDad; Let’s not forget that the previous administration ALSO didn’t believe that deficits mattered, as a matter of fact, even Cheney said it on camera.

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HDB – on the count of three, click your heels and say you’re not in Kansas anymore. – If you can’t tell the difference bettween NObama and Bush (you are truly out of touch with reality, and stop drinking the Gulf Oil Kool-aide – I believe that was under NObama’s watch – golf anyone, or the Paul McCartney love fest), may the great pumpkin fall on you.

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Jay, you’ve cost Cox and the AJC millions in ad and subscriber revenues with your one-sided drivel through the years. When will they grow a pair as it pertains to you?

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I’ll be seeing ALL of you come next January….rich, poor, middle…you bet’cha!

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Jay, you’ve forgotton about the other “T” word – “TRILLIONS”, as in Trillions of dollars in gov’t ‘job creation’ money. Yet, still no job growth…. Will be awaiting your next article and spin on that item (but wait, that’s Obama’s legacy, so I guess we;ll never see that one, will we).

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OK, I take back my earlier statement.

There IS something worse to eat than warm tuna fish.

Any kind of pig extremity. Me no yike it!

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“Kerry and his wife pay their fair share of taxes…the HIGHEST rate.”

Actually, they don’t Saul. Big Momma Theresa (she of the hot tongue and cold shoulder menu this week) has her residency in PA, which has a 3.07% income tax rate. Kerry pays the mandated state level of 5.3% in Mass. income taxes, but he refuses to pay the optional .5% authorized by the legislature for those who think 5.3% isn’t enough. In fact, in a state full of liberals (rich ones at that), less than 1/20th of 1% of taxpayers choose the extra half percent, and of those, they are people who make on average $20k per year, not the limousine liberals with their trust funds.

So in fact, neither pays their fair share of taxes to the supposed state of residency (I mean really, we all know it’s a sham marriage, but don’t you think they could at least claim the same state residency?).

But bottom line, when you harangue the rich for not paying their fair share, as he does constantly, you’d better not be dodging your own state and town taxes on a $7 million yacht.

And I still haven’t heard you reply to the issue of if lower tax rates don’t create jobs, why is the boating industry booming in RI, where there is no luxury tax on boats, and failing in MA, where there is?

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Suck it xenophobes – the feds won the lawsuit over the AZ law.

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RW the Original ! Yes you did say RI . ..and I wasn’t asking if you have ever been to Newport in a sarcastic way . . .was just curious if you new the area . . ..and you definitely do!!! Got it.

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Jay,
You know what’s really sad…I wish the Republicans were as blood thirsty as the Dems are. They have no clue how to do the dirty on the opposition and it pisses me off. If Charley Rangle and John”Lerch” Kerry were Republicans they would be front page news for weeks and there would be sound bites every hour on ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC and CNN to prepare the audience for “the big story” at 6:00. You have no idea how good you have it with “big” media having your back.

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Recent, I don’t care if it is legal or not for him to do that. When he openly and loudly rails against the rich paying their fair share of taxes in front of every camera he can find (hence the nickname “Liveshot”), he loses the moral authority to complain about it when he does it himself!

IT IS THAT SIMPLE

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Jay- the chart you showed can be interpretted in many ways and does not prove your point.

First- why not show the yearly job growth? This way we can see if tax cuts had impact after they passed and gained steam?

Second- Show the government spending growth rate for each year too since it is a fact that government spending crowds out private sector growth

Third- why start with the 40’s? Was there no growth in the years when we had a limited government, no social security and a minute tax rate?

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Jay, now here is the ressssst of the story:

Clinton and Gore pushed NAFTA, which off shored an untold number of manufacturing jobs and set the stage for massive outsouring of non manufacturing jobs.

The vibrance provided by the Bush tax cuts more than offset offset the catastrophic effects of the Clinto/Gore NAFTA debacle until the Dodd/Frank driven housing bubble burst.

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Saul, here’s the thing. I am NOT calling for more tax cuts. The deficit is way too high.

HOWEVER, I do not want the ones already in place to expire, either. And I want to see some deficit cutting FIRST, before I’ll sign on to the inevitable increase in taxes to get rid of this deficit.

And in RI, we’re talking about everything to do with maintaining and servicing those yachts. Lots of jobs that AREN’T in MA because they tax the crap out of those boats.

You’d think the senior senator from Mass. would do something about that whole “create jobs” thing in his own state, rather than take advantage of one right next door. But since he’s another of the “do as I say, not as I do” crowd, he gets rightly hammered for it.

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Dave R . . . .and I have no issue at all with your complaint. I’m sure that would mean Kerry would no longer get your vote – if you are still in MA and not GA. Personally, I don’t have any issue with super wealthy folks that have residences/property in multiple states. I actually would assume they do have much outside of the state – especially since his wife is a Pennsylvanian and an Heiress whom I’m sure has things all over the place. I don’t know what Kerry and wife pay in MA, but I’m gonna assume they still do have quite a bit of income and property there and pay the taxes their “accountants” tell them must be paid. Does Kerry rail against those who don’t pay state taxes or does he rail against the Federal Taxes?? Maybe both . . .but note – they are two very different things.

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I guess all you pro-Obozo supporters have been on loan to another planet since Obozo took office. You complain about Bush but seem to fail at realizing the train wreck that Obozo has caused since he has been in office, i.e. higher un-employmnet, higher taxes, out of control spending, healthcare disaster, no support on immigration laws but what the hell…he can go on the View, be entertained by Paul McCartney, pal around with sports figures, shoot da hoops, read the teleprompter and play President! Does this idiot ever stop and think of all the diseases these illegals are bringing into America? I think the flotilla during the Carter days helped rapidly spread the Aids Virus. But, we are just sitting ducks for Iran, Venezula, North Korea or some other country to conger up some germ warfare and march it across the Mexican Boarder while Obozo continues to trash America and play president!

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“higher taxes”

Get Real…name them and post them…

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Get Real . . .what did the previous Admin do about Iran, Venezuela, N Korea, and the Mexican Border issue that was so great. Boy during GW’s Admin I never saw Fox News jump all over the Illegal Immigration issue nor the Republicans. This is not a new issue – but I’m glad everyone at least “expects” more from our current President.

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Viewing the long-term data, there is no question that tax cuts stimulate economic growth, which increases tax revenue. There is an optimum tax rate for maximum tax revenue. Zero tax produces zero revenue; but 100% tax also produces zero revenue, because nobody will work if the government takes it all. The optimum tax rate can be determined from long-term economic data, and it is well below what we pay today.

Bush’s problem, one problem among many, is that he presided over a larger increase in government spending and government regulation than any Democrat before Obama would have dared to indulge. He actually made Bill Clinton look like a moderate.

So what’s your recipe, Bookman? More taxes, more regulation, and more litigation?

Nobody is so stupid to fail to realize that you cannot print this much money and stay afloat. If you can receive it, Obama is deliberately destroying the dollar. The plan is to replace it with a North American currency.

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Once “Recent” Reader

July 28th, 2010
2:31 pm
Get Real . . .what did the previous Admin do about Iran, Venezuela, N Korea, and the Mexican Border issue that was so great. Boy during GW’s Admin I never saw Fox News jump all over the Illegal Immigration issue nor the Republicans. This is not a new issue – but I’m glad everyone at least “expects” more from our current President.

The previous administeration didn’t trash and apologize for America and bend over bowing and kissing their a$$ for starters! And, illegal imigration has always been an issue with me no matter who was president but at least other presidents didn’t try to block another state from protecting their border from illegals from coming in.

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Get Real . . ..and before you write it . . . .I know most folks who rant at Pres. Obama’s “apologies” DON”T care what other Countries think and if they think we are arrogant. That’s fine . . . . .but it not only reinforces the Arrogant American stereotype . . . .but also that of the “Ugly American”!

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Bud Wiser,

You are definately in the right Party, the Party of Ignorance.

First of all, President Obama is not a social experiment. He was elected to fix the country, that your Party of Ignorance destroyed for their own greed. They not only destroyed the U.S., but other countries around the world due to their deregulation and fraud in the banking industry.

So you will not forget, it was your party who was in office when the job losses began. It was your party who started the unpaid wars. It was your party who funded the huge unfunded Medicare Drug Plan that is being paid by the taxpayers. It is your party who gave the tax breaks to the rich hoping the money will funnel down to YOU.

Most of all, it is your Party of Ignorance, Party of No, the Republican Party who only will pass legislature to benefit the rich and big business, which You Are Not A Part.

So Bud Wiser, continue to hold on to your racism, you will no doubt continue to lose like the rest of the non rich and small businesses.

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Interesting chart. If job growth occurred in the 20%-38% range in each decade save the 1990s, and tax rates were both “high” and “low” at various times during this entire period, then one has to logically conclude that there is no correlation between tax rates and employment. It’s like arguing that wet sidewalks caused it to rain.

One can argue for relatively higher taxes, or relatively lower taxes (I’m on the lower side myself), but the issue of employment growth is completely separate.

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Here’s a NEW SHOCKER!!! According to Jay’s pretty graph, there were NO NET JOBS LOST, EITHER!!
If government takes more money from its subjects, the subjects will have less to invest in new companies and in new jobs!!!!

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“I see why Georgia ranks near the bottom of the list in Education from reading the bloggers.”

you’ll get no argument from me…

But NEAR almost too kind….

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Wait wait wait — you can’t say (well, I guess you CAN) in one post “there was no mini-recession after 9/11″ and in the following post say “Nyah! There were recessions in other years, too!” (paraphrase).

Just a few links, from 2008 and 2006 and 2003:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-viscusi/work-is-not-a-democracy_b_142188.html

http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/4104517-1.html

http://www.nber.org/cycles/july2003.html

Now, granted, maybe it wasn’t the “agreed-upon definition of recession”–you know, kind of what the Democrats said in the months preceding the 2008 election, when in fact a true “recession” by definition had not yet occurred–but most agree that the country experienced an economic downturn in the months following 9-11.

And by more than a few accounts, choices made by that administration pulled the economy out of the recession in less than half the time this administration has been in office. (From third link: “The trough marks the end of the recession that began in March 2001 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 8 months, which is slightly less than average for recessions since World War II.”)

I think it’s entirely possible that the choices made by different parties (rampant spending, Fannie, Freddie, the mid-term elections–see: rampant spending, part II) helped bring about this recession we’re in, but hey: At least the previous administration got us out of the FIRST one. Not sure the same will be said for the current folks. Thinking that ridiculous, job-killing policies will work just because “I REALLY WANT them to, golly gee willikers!!” … well, yeah. Good luck with that.

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Some interesting charts on the economy since the “Reagan Revolution” for those deniers out there.
“Reagan’s Revolution Home to Roost”

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

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Hey there Dave R! Hey – if there is wrongdoing . ..go at him. I have no problem with that at all. I don’t know how I would feel if this same thing happened to say . . . ..Mitch McConnel. I’m really being truthful here too. I am a Dem, but I don’t go jumping off at folks at every little item. I’m human . . .and I make human mistakes . . .or discretions:) I honestly do not sweat the small stuff. To me this was small stuff until something comes out that makes it illegal (tax wise), immoral and not just fiscally “prudent” (tax wise), or shows that Kerry is lying about the facts regarding Das Boot:)

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I have read your posts and I have not changed my mind. Liberals can not lead and do not know how to follow. They definately do interfere with the execution of a war–to its detriment on the American military and create huge costs. Some conservative and independents are willing to compromise but in the end that means you give up your beliefs and accept the progressive liberal agenda. For example the student at the university who was kicked out of the graduate program because of her Christain beliefs. Now if it were liberal who got get kicked out because of their beliefs, all the news media aclu, and special interestes groups would be rioting in the streets–violately.
Jay talkes about reality therapy being harsh for those with repressed memories. You know he could be right. I mean like Britain’s healthcare failing and death bed planning. Now we wait to see how the financial arena will fare. We will have Obamacare, bailouts, and financial reform as history. However maybe repressed memories would be good for the progressive liberal socialist movement. Can you imagine what would happen if the people really realized their agenda?

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Fix-It

Bush repeatedly reminded everyone that he inherited a recession and the end of the dot com bubble when the economy was struggling.

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Bosch – Suck it xenophobes

xenophobes? Why because ILLEGALS are flooding the borders – Get it, ILLEGAS! douchebag!

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We can debate all day long and come up with stats over taxes, who caused and inherited recessions, etc. The bottom line is that the less government interference, the lower the marginal tax rates, the closer a country is to capitalism as opposed to socialism the more prosperous the economy. This is not rocket science. Its an easily observable fact of life. Look around you. Look at the fastest growin, most prosperous economies in the world. They are all low tax, capitalist oriented economies such as the Asian tigers- South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. Then look at the countries burdened by huge socialist governments like Greece, France, Spain, the western European economies in general. They are in decline- their economies are sluggish, unemployment is high( near 20% in both France and Spain), and worst of all they are all flat out broke. Even in 3rd world countries the countries geared towards free market capitalism are the ones advancing while the countries like Zimbabwe in Africa that embrace socialism are broke and in complete economic disarray. Even Cuba and China get it. They had to enact free market reforms to get their economies moving or go bankrupt. Only North Korea has not and we look at what’s happened there. Why is this so hard for Democrats to see?

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Politics to the right of Attila the Hun
July 28th, 2010
5:14 pm

…and ALL of those Asian countries have one thing that the US doesn’t: UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!

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This is garbage for multiple reasons. Starting with there was plenty of job creation between 2000 and 2007 that starting falling in 08 and went to hell in 09. The economic fall out falls on many shoulders, starting with George W. Bush; but he has plenty of help, starting with Frank and Dodd.

I was of the opinion the who ever won this election would be a one term President, because there was just too much work to be done; was also of the opinion that the next party would lock in for 8 years and that there would be a huge swing away from the other party. That’s the way it is heading.

President of Obama has made little or no attempt to even pretend to work to the middle. That is why he is not a popular President right now. He promised that by taking the country further into debt and spending money that unemployment would be no higher than 8%. He promised that this summer we would see an economic turnaround – hasn’ happened. He drove these through claiming that most of the money would go to much needed Infrastructure improvments – isn’t happening.

He and the Democratic Party forced through a Health Care Program that we are still finding little suprises written into it. The Democratic Party will pay a heavy price for this in the fall and unless they learned to come back to the center, an even heavier price two years later.

Do not be surprised to see a Republican President, House and Senate with a mandate to CUT and cut in a big way.

Personally, like a President and the House under one Party, with the Senate able to ‘check’ and force compromise. However, the Democrats are performing so poorly, they’ll likely lose it all in two short years.

Pathetic performance by both parties over the last 10 years…

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ChewOnThis – your “strawman” has no arms or legs and his head is up his butt. You really don’t know much about small business owners. They are not your enemy, they are the people who create jobs, but that would never happen under your concept. glad you don’t have anything to do with the rules, you’d be even worse than what we have now and that’s saying something.

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@Dave, what you need is an economics lesson.

Fact is 35% or 39% most likely won’t change a single business decision, and if it did the tendency would be to spend more $’s. The higher the tax rate the lower the effective cost of hiring or capex.

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ChewOnThis: The higher the tax rate the lower the effective cost of hiring.
——————

You need an arithmetic lesson.

You must be one of those idiots who thinks you’re getting ahead by paying interest on a mortgage since you get to deduct the interest from your income when doing taxes. That’s like saying you’re saving 25 cents by spending a dollar.

If you disagree, look back at your own argument. How many additional folks would be hired if the tax rate were 100%. Why, then the employees cost you nothing!

Idiot.

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