Reality therapy can be harsh for those with repressed memory
I know I’m not supposed to do this.
Modern economic history is now said to begin on Jan. 20, 2009, the day that Barack Obama took the oath of office as president, and nothing that occurred prior to that date is supposed to be mentioned in polite company. In fact, anybody who dares to look back more than 18 months is deemed guilty of “dredging up the past,” which has become a thought crime of the highest order.
Well, to hell with that.
From The Washington Post, Jan. 2, 2010:
“There has been zero net job creation since December 1999. No previous decade going back to the 1940s had job growth of less than 20 percent. Economic output rose at its slowest rate of any decade since the 1930s as well.
Middle-income households made less in 2008, when adjusted for inflation, than they did in 1999 — and the number is sure to have declined further during a difficult 2009. The Aughts were the first decade of falling median incomes since figures were first compiled in the 1960s.
And the net worth of American households — the value of their houses, retirement funds and other assets minus debts — has also declined when adjusted for inflation, compared with sharp gains in every previous decade since data were initially collected in the 1950s.”
I know that’s quite a shock to many of you. Bringing back such deeply repressed memories can be very, very traumatic. But I want you to gather yourself because we’re now at the important part. Try to remember: What was the primary economic strategy during that decade that we are now supposed to block from our memory banks and pretend never happened?
Two words, seven letters. The first word begins with T…
Who said “tax cuts?” Very good. I see it’s all coming back to you now.
And what is the GOP’s primary economic strategy for the next decade, their sole prescription for restoring lost jobs, income, hope and opportunity (all of which began disappearing Jan. 20, 2009)?
That’s right, more tax cuts. As John Boehner told us the other day, “We’ve seen over the last 30 years that lower marginal tax rates have led to a growing economy, more employment and more people paying taxes.”
Is that really what we’ve seen, class?
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437 comments Add your comment
Doggone/GA
July 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
“And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure
Right, I don’t. Because it is inherently UNfair.
The Thin Guy
July 28th, 2010
12:08 pm
Øbungle didn’t invent economic disaster. He just turned it into an art form. JB, since you love taxes, why don’t you pay mine? Even if I didn’t have to pay any taxes it still wouldn’t compensate for my loss of potential income, the decline in my portfolio and property values, and the general depression is knowing that a blithering idiot is charging full speed ahead with the total destruction of MY country and ME. There will be no relief until January 20, 2013 @ 2 pm when someone who can count to 21 without taking off all his clothes will take over and steer The Ship of State hard right.
USinUK
July 28th, 2010
12:08 pm
Bosch – pigs feet and ears … WHY?? WHY would anyone think them’s good eating??
I’m trying to come to terms with offal – but it’s a slow process for me. One day, I’ll go to St. Johns (http://www.stjohnrestaurant.com/home/) but I’m not there quite yet
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:08 pm
jewcowboy@ 12:02,
Damn. I’m gonna need more therapy. And good thing I haven’t had lunch yet.
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:10 pm
USinUK,
“WHY would anyone think them’s good eating?? ”
The only thing I can think of is that they are so hungry, they are only one step away from eating the flesh off their own arm.
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:10 pm
Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:42 am
“HDB, my solution would have been to not have any war effort in the first place.”
So, we DO agree that the wars were misplaced efforts by Bush….rather than the targeted approach that SHOULD’VE taken place….to go get bin Laden (but we all know Bush couldn’t do that since he and Daddy were on the bin Laden payroll (Carlyle Group – 11th largest defense contractor…with Poppy Bush and Shafiq bin Laden on board!)
“But then, I look ahead to the long-term issues before deciding on a course of action. That being said, you CUT some other program first, then only raise taxes if you can’t pay for it.”
Since the war precluded that logical approach….and the persistent cost increases that the economy generates….wasn’t a tax increase necessary at that point??
Dave R. July 28th, 2010
11:56 am
“Acknowledging our past – particularly our missteps in S. America – isn’t the same as apologizing.”
Uh, yes, it is.
Actually, it’s BETTER than an apology! Acknowledging our past mistakes allows the President to show that the nation can be HUMBLE….rather than the “arrogant, ugly American” that we are considered to be worldwide!! Don’t forget: Bush had the WORLD on our side at 9/11….and wasted the opportunity for the US to really assune the leadership role of the world by playing the role of a cowboy…rather than being a SURGEON!!
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
I love it that Conservatives and Fox News are jumping on Kerry for docking his yacht in Rhode Island. Folks . . . .I’m from Mass. – trust me Newport is a GREAT place to dock a yacht and only a little more than an hour from Boston. Kerry and Wife are loaded and probably have properties in many states. It doesn’t sound like he put an international flag on his yacht to totally avoid US taxes . . . .which many corporations and uber rich do. There is nothing illegal about this at all . . . .I’m wondering if there is even anything remotely unethical about it!!! We all would look to obtain property or dock our boats in a less expensive Yacth Club if we had the opportunity. Good old Capitalism at work here folks!!! That’s why the last Admin made it SOOOOO easy for Corporations to outsource US jobs to much less expensive countries. This isn’t even outsourcing . . ..just having a boat in a neighboring state . . .in an absolutely amazing place like Newport, RI!!! I’m sure some Republican Senator’s are hoping this one blows over quickly because they may have similar items in different states to save on taxes. I’ll add plenty of Dem Senators to that list too!!
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
Okay… “dad’s” still not home… that’s it…it’s after 12pm and I’m going after his beer stash in the fridge…always easy to “apologize” and say I’m sorry after consuming everything he had.
Gee…come to think about it…that sounds a lot like Bush…but I’ve yet to hear the apology.
USinUK
July 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
jason t – sorry, none of those quotes hold a candle to this verbal train wreck:
“That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we’re ill about this position that we have been put in. Where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it’s got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and getting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation.”
SOOHSO
July 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
DawgDad
July 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
I have an MBA from a well-respected private university, and I entered the private sector work force permanently during the Carter years. If anyone believes Bookman’s slant on economics then shame on you for not studying and paying attention.
During the Reagan years it was proven that supply side economics including tax cuts and more importantly investment tax credits do work. The problem was Congress was controlled by Democrats and moderate Republicans and spending was never brought in check; in fact, there was (and still is, as evidenced by the current Administration) a school of thought that deficits don’t matter – I tend to believe otherwise.
The problem today is globalization and imbalances in the investment banking sector. Tax cuts today don’t guarantee investment in America and creation of American jobs because of our trade policies. Markets are markets; when we opened up global free trade the markets sought equilibrium. Manufacturing chased cheaper labor and big corporate investments went to areas providing opportunity for the highest return.
We need to restructure the American tax system and heavily incentivize investment of American dollars in America. Won’t win us any friends overseas, but do we really have any? Why are we willing to sacrifice our own prosperity and hand over our economic freedom to people who don’t care one whit whether you or I take even one more breath on this earth? Basically, we’ve gone nuts, and Jay is evidencing the matter.
USinUK
July 28th, 2010
12:13 pm
Saul – always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
stands for decibels
July 28th, 2010
12:13 pm
Dave R., just so it’s clear—in your mind, declaring that both Americans and Europeans haven’t always been all that appreciative of one another (which by any objective analysis is what Obama said in that Strasbourg address) is “apologizing”?
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:14 pm
Dave R.,
“And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.”
Yes…people will rejoice when they pay over $5 for a gallon milk or an extra $200 in taxes on that new laptop..it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…
Left wing management
July 28th, 2010
12:15 pm
HDB has it.
“Republicans play class warfare to scare the have-nots into giving more to the haves”
Them’s words of truth there
stands for decibels
July 28th, 2010
12:15 pm
it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…
which is pre-zacktly why other nations are falling over themselves to adopt this brilliant revenue scheme!
oh wait.
josef nix
July 28th, 2010
12:15 pm
jewcowboy
Did you ever see “The White Trash Cookbook?” A gem…hilarious family stories and all these recipes…?
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
““And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.”
Yes…people will rejoice when they pay over $5 for a gallon milk or an extra $200 in taxes on that new laptop..it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…”
Yeah Dave R., – cause there is no way I’m eating that stuff that jewcowboy posted. Ain’t gonna happen.
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
USinUK,
“WHY?? WHY would anyone think them’s good eating?? ”
The same could be said for raw oysters, but give me a dozen Blue Points and I am a happy camper.
USinUK
July 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
well, guys and gals … I’ve had about as much fun as one person should legally be allowed …
have a good night! see ya manaanananana
Independent
July 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
Saul, look at the stock market, the deficit, and the federal budget in Jan-07 when Congress flipped to the Democrats and then get back to us with those numbers. Whoops, didn’t think you’d want those better facts.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
Once…that’s pretty much on par with everyone from ANYWHERE with the means who owns a yacht in our nation. I mean how many live in different state and dock their boats in Florida, Newport, the Caribbeans, etc…
See me? I failed to see any on the right complaining about this (and it never was reported on Fox):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/cheney-spends-iraq-annive_n_92314.html
Cheney Spends Iraq Anniversary Fishing Off Sultan Of Omans’ Boat
Vice President Dick Cheney went fishing in the waters between Oman and Iran on Wednesday, borrowing the Sultan of Oman’s 60-foot royal yacht for the mission.
A Cheney spokeswoman said the vice president, his wife Lynne, and daughter, Liz, a former State Department official who is traveling with her father as a private citizen, headed out under sunny skies into the Gulf of Oman on “Kingfish I,” owned by Sultan Qaboos bin Said.
Go ahead…see if you can find it on Fox….
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
Furthermore . . . .anyone who calls this a Tax Hike is in essense not accurate. This would be putting taxes back to where they were before the Tax Cuts that immensely helped create our current deficit, along with two wars and stimulus programs. The Republicans pushed this Tax Cut through RECONCILIATION . . .remember that evil thing the Democrats were bashed about on Fox News and by Repub Congressman/Senators during Health Reform? The Republicans were the ones who stated the taxes would go back to the normal rates at the end of this year. Hmmmm . . . .why didn’t they say the end of 2008 when President Bush would potentially (and was) still be in office to make the call to keep the cuts in effect. From the very start these Tax Cuts were shown to put a major dent into Surplus . . now a Deficit (and for sometime a Deficit – before Pres. Obama). And now we hear about how Tax Cuts create jobs . . . . .that was not proven out by these Tax Cuts. Just the opposite in fact has happened.
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
Guten Nicht USinUK!!
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
josef nix,
“Did you ever see “The White Trash Cookbook?”
You mean this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Anns-Down-Trailer-Cookbook/dp/0806523492
I own it
And it is indeed a gem…but not for the recipes.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:19 pm
Independent,
You’re late to the game…i posted earlier how the stock market is up over 30% since Obama took office…
Know a place I can get a better return on my investments?
DawgDad
July 28th, 2010
12:19 pm
“Republicans play class warfare to scare the have-nots into giving more to the haves”
Left wing: Please explain yourself. Your comment makes NO sense on the surface. Which Republicans are asking have-nots to give money to the haves, and in what way? Seems to me to be completely contradictory to the Repub’s platform and principles.
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:19 pm
Once “Recent” Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
Addendum: I meant the worst of the job losses were from sping/summer 2008 through end rest of year and up to March 2009 . . . .not through winter of 2009 which would include end of 2009.
Revision: The worst of the job losses BEGAN on September 11, 2001; those losses continued until January 1, 2004! The second iteration of worst job losses were sping/summer 2008 through end rest of year and up to March 2009 . . . .not through winter of 2009 which would include end of 2009.
Look at the job losses in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and LA immediately after 9/11……
josef nix
July 28th, 2010
12:20 pm
Pigs’ feet, lips, ears, etc. as delicacies in the South go back to the slavery days when the slaves were given the parts of the hog that the folks in the Big House were too good to eat,,,since a lot of the poor whites were in much the same condition economically, these bits became delicacies in their cuisine for the same reasons…
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:21 pm
USinUK,
You’re really just running off to make that Kraft Dinner and Tuna Sauce aren’t you? I know Bosch can’t wait…
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:21 pm
“have a good night! see ya manaanananana”
Goodnight?
What did the sun go down already in Europe?
Goodnight…
we’ll let you know if Scout changes teams… or if he becomes the “master of his domain”… (kidding Scout)… that kinda stuff is YUCKY!
ncgreybr
July 28th, 2010
12:22 pm
A private sector empolyee said:”Actually, Jay, there was plenty of job creation from 200-2006. When the DEMOCRATS took over Congress, job creation took a nose dive. If you want to look back to blame someone, look at job creation and Congressional party control… ”
Tell us, employee, exactly WHAT bills did the DEMOCRATIC Congress pass that Bush signed into law that caused this drop in jobs? Name 5….OK…name 3.
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:22 pm
josef,
“since a lot of the poor whites were in much the same condition economically, these bits became delicacies in their cuisine for the same reasons…”
I would have just eaten the people in the Big House.
Jason T
July 28th, 2010
12:23 pm
USinUK
July 28th, 2010
12:11 pm
OOOohh no. For a “train wreck” look no further than this Administration and this Congress. Of course if you are saying Joe Biden is a genius, that says it all.
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:23 pm
josef nix,
“these bits became delicacies in their cuisine for the same reasons…”
“Delicacies” might be pushing it a little…foie gras and sweetbreads appears on Le Bernardin’s menu…pigs feet…not so much.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:24 pm
You’re really just running off to make that Kraft Dinner and Tuna Sauce
UHG!
I mean…is that even something one can classify as being “food”???
What’s the limit on the amount of ingredients labeled before something simple becomes a “chemical compound” instead of being called food?
ACK!
Normal
July 28th, 2010
12:24 pm
Bosch,
Tuna fish over grits with Texas Pete’s…yummy!
jewcowboy
July 28th, 2010
12:24 pm
Saul Good,
“Know a place I can get a better return on my investments?”
If you actually have a job that gives you a salary that allows you extra money to invest….
RW-(the original)
July 28th, 2010
12:25 pm
It hasn’t been too many years ago when lobster was just fed to prisoners.
casual observer
July 28th, 2010
12:25 pm
Obama Administration’s plan for all BAD things.
1 BLAME BUSH
2 TAX THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MORE AND MORE AND MORE
3 BLAME BUSH
4 CALL ALL THAT OPPOSE RACIST
5 BLAME BUSH THEN RAISE TAXES
How’s the plan so far?
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:26 pm
Great post Saul Good. Listen, I’m a Dem, but I really lean towards the middle on many things, sometimes the Right! I don’t like higher taxes . . .but no-one does. What was the song “Money for nothing and your chicks for free” . . .well nothing is free. Cops, fireman, public parks, new roads and bridges, DMVs, libraries . .etc. Fox has not totally hammered Kerry, but they keep bringing up this story and I constantly saw it scrolling on their channel yesterday. It just confuses me . . . . they seem to want to trash extra taxes, be for capitalism . .which now equates to outsourcing for bigger profits . ..I do understand that too!! Helps the bottom line. But this one confuses me. Many people in Mass have summer homes in Rhode Island, just as many people in other New England States have summer places on Cape Code. My good friend ran a small Time Share Yacht business. He had a 100 ft, 85 ft, and 62 ft yacht fleet. I learned from him a lot about what the super rich folks that have boats docked in SE Florida where I now live do to ensure they are not hit by US excise taxes. Par for the course was having them Flagged internationally on Caribbean Islands. Kerry DID NOT do that . . .. and again Newport, RI is AWESOME – beautiful place, and well represented by the Jet Setters and many huge yachts!
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:27 pm
Josef… Hey… my family always went to the “deli” and bought “tongue”… (not me…as an omnivore youth I stock with the pastrami)…. and i know many a Non-jew who will fail to even entertain the idea of eating Gefilte fish… must be that “jelly like substance” (which is the same as jello minus the sugar and food coloring)…
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Tuna fish over grits with Texas Pete’s…yummy!”
Normal, I like you, but no.
Left wing management
July 28th, 2010
12:29 pm
casual observer
Seems a shard of jagged untruth is lodged in your head.
Let’s review your list:
1 BLAME BUSH – what rational person doesn’t blame Bush?
2 TAX THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MORE AND MORE AND MORE – why not tax them some more. tax rates are at their lowest in decades for many groups. The real question is: Is he taxing the RIGHT people?
3 BLAME BUSH .. see #1
4 CALL ALL THAT OPPOSE RACIST .. yeah you may have a point there. then again. what’s glen beck done to help this problem?
5 BLAME BUSH THEN RAISE TAXES .. see #s 1 and 2
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:31 pm
casual observer . . . . .If you have a 10 Year old House and you have found that the Infrastructure was totally trash and falling apart, do you blame the original constructor or the company that is now there trying to repair the house??? I know that may not be the best analogy as we have a 234 year old house in the USA and many builders. Nonetheless, we seemed to be in pretty good shape 10 years ago. I don’t blame GWB for 9/11, housing chrisis, Afghan War (well a little incompetency caused by lack of attention), but I do believe Iraq War, Deficit, and ruining our image internationally was a direct output to that Admin’s actions.
Tillie
July 28th, 2010
12:31 pm
The Bush years were infinitely better than what our current leadership has wrought with ideological stubbornness for statist splutions for everything. I feel less free, more worried and less prosperous . I am genuinely frightened for the future under the Obamacrats. And the big tax increases are just starting.
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:32 pm
DawgDad
July 28th, 2010
12:19 pm
“Republicans play class warfare to scare the have-nots into giving more to the haves”
Left wing: Please explain yourself. Your comment makes NO sense on the surface. Which Republicans are asking have-nots to give money to the haves, and in what way? Seems to me to be completely contradictory to the Repub’s platform and principles.
DD…I’ll tackle that one:
1) Shifting of the tax burden DOWNWARD. The shifting of the tax burden to the middle class means a larger percentage of the decrease of disposable income, whereas the wealthy can absorb such taxes better with a lesser effect of their disposable income!
2) The wealthy pay a lower percentage of income tax rates (15%) than the middle class (33%)
3) The AMT, which Reagan did NOT index, affects more of the middle class than the wealthy
4) Whenever the GOP plays class/racial warfare, those who are at the lower end of the economic strata always vote with them…contrary to their own self-interests!! If such were not the case, the “Southern Strategy” devised by Nixon to make the South a monolithic-GOP-white voting bloc would not have been as effective!! Note the voting patterns of South Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, West Virginia for emphasis to that point!
Don’t get me wrong – both sides play the fear game…but Republicans scare more into going against their own self-interest!!
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:33 pm
Once…I agree with your post. I grew up “on the water” in Long island… my dad had a boat that we kept out in Montauk (trust me it was no Yacht) … most of the boats there had “foreign” registrations. I too have been to Newport many times and it sure is purty (though I prefer Block Island)… but in Newport you’ll also find many of the yachts there are registered in far away places. People who own big boats dock them/register them in many places… I can’t begin to tell you how many I know in NY who have their boats docked in Florida and registered in the Islands… just another loophole. Do I blame the Kerry’s for doing that? Nope… not when Rupert (who own fox) does the very same thing….
ncgreybr
July 28th, 2010
12:36 pm
Dawgdad said “During the Reagan years it was proven that supply side economics including tax cuts and more importantly investment tax credits do work.”
OK, I’m NOT a MBA so humor me…If Reagan economics worked so well, why did the deficit jump from 900 billion to 2.8 TRILLION dollars duriing his administration?
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:37 pm
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
12:27 pm
Josef… Hey… my family always went to the “deli” and bought “tongue”… (not me…as an omnivore youth I stock with the pastrami)…. and i know many a Non-jew who will fail to even entertain the idea of eating Gefilte fish… must be that “jelly like substance” (which is the same as jello minus the sugar and food coloring)…
Hey…nothing’s wrong with gefilte fish….kinda like it myself!! Also a good matzoh soup, lox and bagels!!
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Tuna fish over grits with Texas Pete’s…yummy!”
Normal, I like you, but no.
Leave the grits out of it…..prefer tuna over potatoes, onions, mushrooms, with Tabasco!!
RW-(the original)
July 28th, 2010
12:39 pm
This is a pretty funny thread since it’s supposed to be saying that lower taxes kill jobs as long as you don’t look any deeper than Jay B’s silly graph, but in the midst of the comments the libs jumping to Kerry’s defense are making the case that lower taxes in Rhode Island have created a thriving business in the boatyards.
Ah well, logic just ain’t a liberal strong point.
I guess I’ll head to the forest while y’all sort this out.
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:39 pm
Casual Observer . . . .the Admin has been extremely quiet on this Race thing. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the Networks (CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS) regarding the Tea Party rallies and what has been displayed regarding pictures of our President. But the Admin has stayed away. On the flip side . . .the Republicans/Fox were very quick to work up there own “Reverse Racial” stories around NAACP, Acorn, Immigration . . . .especially where they kept saying an Illegal Immigrant Killed the Rancher for quite a while . . . .this very well could be the case, but police officials have only said they “suspect” that is the case. Remember for a while there Mid-Easter terrorists bombed Oklahoma City! I still say this Admin has stayed away from that fray . . . but when the President gets dubbed as a Racist directly and indirectly over and over again . . .it may be time for the Admin to speak up!
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:39 pm
Tillie
July 28th, 2010
12:31 pm
The Bush years were infinitely WORSE than what our current leadership has wrought with ideological stubbornness for statist solutions for everything. I was less free, more worried and less prosperous . I was genuinely frightened for the future under the BUSHwhackers. And the return to the tax levels of the Clinton years is what’s needed!!
There….corrected your statement!!
josef nix
July 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
jewcowboy
This one…the guy who did it was “one of ours” I’ve got it and I like yours, too!
http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9780898151893
BOSCH
That is if they’d let you in!
SAUL
Gefilte fish…bleech…enough to make you convert!
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
12:43 pm
RW . . . . .I plead guilty to being a Democrat . . . .not fully a liberal though. I plead guilty to bringing up the Kerry incident . . .but I read a few posts bashing him first. Who mentioned anything about Newport boatbuilding? I must have missed that one. Newport is more of a place where the Yachts are docked and less so where the boats are built:) You ever been there? Beautiful mansions, great place . . .and again I would happily dock my (non-existing) Yacht there. I would imagine it would be pretty pricey to dock in such a hot spot during the summer . . . .maybe what they saved on Mass Taxes covers the docking fees:)
But remember, that whole discussion that you mostly see being run on Fox . . .is about Taxes, and Taxes for the top 2% which I’m sure Kerry and his Wife (Heinz heir) are . . . so I do see some relevance and correlation to the two items.
Scooter (the Original)
July 28th, 2010
12:44 pm
Hearkens me back to a day when the dot-com bubble and OBL’s declaration of war against us couldn’t be mentioned. At that time we heard tax cuts wouldn’t effect the unemployment numbers and Bush 43 should’ve stopped 9/11 because of a vague memo from a month earlier.
ncgreybr
July 28th, 2010
12:44 pm
Gee, thanks, Normal! I was going to send out for a sandwich and then I read “Bosch, Tuna fish over grits with Texas Pete’s…yummy!”
Made me lose my appetite completely!
A private sector employee
July 28th, 2010
12:45 pm
To the idiot naysayers: you missed my point completely! I didn’t claim that either party was responsible for the job losses of 2007-2010! My only point was that if you can pick an arbitrary date and blame it on Bush, then I can pick an arbitrary date and blame it on the Democrat Congress (which, by the way, is a heck of a lot better time-fit for lost jobs). Jay wants to pull out a dumbass arbitrary time period, so will I. The tear-down of the wall between investment houses and traditional banking, combined with skyrocketing raw materials prices (including energy) combined with derivatives gambling caused that loss of jobs. NOT Pres Bush and NOT the Democrat Congress of 2006. But Jay says “to hell with that” and pulls dates out of his ass to fit his stupid-statistic-of-the-day and to feed you anti-Bush trolls. So I did my only creative dates-out-of-the-ass trick. So you idiots who say “show me some legislation”… screw you. You have been pwned!
HDB
July 28th, 2010
12:46 pm
RW-(the original) July 28th, 2010
12:39 pm
We all know that there is an OPTIMUM tax level that can create employment; once taxation goes ABOVE such levels, it can choke employment. Clinton showed that a tax increase within optimum levels would spur employment!! If the nation returned to that level of taxation and shift the tax burden UPWARD…target tax breaks for small business, close tax loopholes….and bring manufacturing capability BACK to the US…..then we’d be out of a hole!!
DawgDad
July 28th, 2010
12:50 pm
ncgreybr: Read my post again. Deficits rose because the political class in power did not collectively believe deficits mattered. The CURRENT ruling class does not believe deficits matter. If you don’t believe that, please explain to me what Obama and Congress have been doing!
ncgreybr
July 28th, 2010
12:53 pm
a private sector employee employee said : So I did my only creative dates-out-of-the-ass trick. So you idiots who say “show me some legislation”… screw you. You have been pwned!”
I doubt you could “pwned” me. You showed your own incompetence. Try growing a couple and come back when you grow up.
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
12:55 pm
josef,
If I was hungry to the point that I would have to eat pig ears and feet and snouts and such, I’d find a way in the house, believe me.
RW-(the original)
July 28th, 2010
12:59 pm
Once “Recent” Reader ,
I’ve got to run but a quick distinction. I didn’t say “Newport” I said Rhode Island and yes I’ve been there. I’m originally from Brockton.
ncgreybr
July 28th, 2010
1:01 pm
DawgDad; Let’s not forget that the previous administration ALSO didn’t believe that deficits mattered, as a matter of fact, even Cheney said it on camera.
David S
July 28th, 2010
1:05 pm
Ignoring the reality that all of the same economic “tricks” were tried during the first Depression and everyone of them made things worse seems to be the action plan for the Obama administration (and Bush before him too). Government meddling in the economy, whether by income manipulation, currency manipulation, or regulatory manipulation will have dire consequences eventually. Nearly every administration and congress has been guilty of all three.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
July 28th, 2010
1:06 pm
HDB – on the count of three, click your heels and say you’re not in Kansas anymore. – If you can’t tell the difference bettween NObama and Bush (you are truly out of touch with reality, and stop drinking the Gulf Oil Kool-aide – I believe that was under NObama’s watch – golf anyone, or the Paul McCartney love fest), may the great pumpkin fall on you.
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:07 pm
Sorry for catching up on past posts, but:
“Dave R.,
“And yet you don’t support the FairTax. Go figure.”
Yes…people will rejoice when they pay over $5 for a gallon milk or an extra $200 in taxes on that new laptop..it will create a hotbed of economic consumer spending…”
This is the biggest misunderstanding about the FairTax. The items will not cost more. The cost of the taxes paid by corporations to build that laptop, will be REPLACED at the register with the sales tax, jewcowboy. I know Chris Matthews can’t understand replacing one tax with exactly the same amount as another, but I know you can.
bill
July 28th, 2010
1:09 pm
Jay, you’ve cost Cox and the AJC millions in ad and subscriber revenues with your one-sided drivel through the years. When will they grow a pair as it pertains to you?
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:10 pm
Recent Reader, if Long Jawn Kerry was the Senator from Rhode Island, then he’d have no issue from me.
HOWEVER, he’s the Senator from Massachusetts, and he’s ducking taxes designed to be paid for by the rich, which is WHAT HE RAILS ABOUT ON A CONSTANT BASIS!
Oh, the hypocrisy!
The Taxman Cometh
July 28th, 2010
1:16 pm
I’ll be seeing ALL of you come next January….rich, poor, middle…you bet’cha!
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:16 pm
“OK, I’m NOT a MBA so humor me…If Reagan economics worked so well, why did the deficit jump from 900 billion to 2.8 TRILLION dollars duriing his administration?”
ncgreybr, it’s called excessive SPENDING. And has been stated before, Reagan had a Democrat Congress headed up by Tip O’Neill to work with. If he wanted extra spending, he had to go along with the extra social spending they demanded.
His policies were responsible for hastening the fall of the Soviet Union were laudable, but ensuing administrations needed to cut back on military spending to reflect the new change, and they didn’t.
What about the Trillions?
July 28th, 2010
1:17 pm
Jay, you’ve forgotton about the other “T” word – “TRILLIONS”, as in Trillions of dollars in gov’t ‘job creation’ money. Yet, still no job growth…. Will be awaiting your next article and spin on that item (but wait, that’s Obama’s legacy, so I guess we;ll never see that one, will we).
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
1:21 pm
Dave R.
Kerry and his wife pay their fair share of taxes…the HIGHEST rate.
need I find every single “land locked” senator and congressperson who owns a boat? Let’s see where they have them docked…let’s see if THEY pay taxes to their state based upon where their boats are docked. Or…is that ONLY acceptable for “land-locked” members of our government?
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:22 pm
OK, I take back my earlier statement.
There IS something worse to eat than warm tuna fish.
Any kind of pig extremity. Me no yike it!
ken R
July 28th, 2010
1:30 pm
Charlie Rangle, isn’t worried about economics, he is now cutting a deal, how sweet.
There will always be recessions and hopefully more good times. One of the major things that made Clinton’s economic years look good was a gridlock Congress. This is the best thing that could happen to our country, the less they get done the better for our country.
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:35 pm
“Kerry and his wife pay their fair share of taxes…the HIGHEST rate.”
Actually, they don’t Saul. Big Momma Theresa (she of the hot tongue and cold shoulder menu this week) has her residency in PA, which has a 3.07% income tax rate. Kerry pays the mandated state level of 5.3% in Mass. income taxes, but he refuses to pay the optional .5% authorized by the legislature for those who think 5.3% isn’t enough. In fact, in a state full of liberals (rich ones at that), less than 1/20th of 1% of taxpayers choose the extra half percent, and of those, they are people who make on average $20k per year, not the limousine liberals with their trust funds.
So in fact, neither pays their fair share of taxes to the supposed state of residency (I mean really, we all know it’s a sham marriage, but don’t you think they could at least claim the same state residency?).
But bottom line, when you harangue the rich for not paying their fair share, as he does constantly, you’d better not be dodging your own state and town taxes on a $7 million yacht.
And I still haven’t heard you reply to the issue of if lower tax rates don’t create jobs, why is the boating industry booming in RI, where there is no luxury tax on boats, and failing in MA, where there is?
DawgDad
July 28th, 2010
1:40 pm
HDB: Your comments, while I might not completely agree with you, cast you as a sensible and practical-focused person. But it’s very easy to say “bring back manufacturing to the US” and VERY hard to do that. The only people that are focused on that are people like you and me. Politicians, industry leaders, financiers, labor leaders, these people don’t care one whit about bringing manufacturing base back to the US if they perceive they can make more money investing in or promoting off-shore interests. Our leaders are almost universally working against the interests of the middle class American worker, the backbone of this country.
I don’t advocate protectionist trade barriers; I advocate deep incentives for investing in the American domestic private sector. I would eliminate the corporate income tax for business revenue derived from domestic labor-based operations. I would take a serious look at capital gains tax and employment tax policy in the same context; instead of spending $300,000 per added job derived from a trillion dollars in Federal stimulus money let’s cut the corporate employment tax rate substantially. Let’s provide tax credits to companies employing domestic school aged workers temporarily (after school and summer jobs). There is an endless list of things we COULD be doing to improve the jobs market and our economy.
Bosch
July 28th, 2010
1:41 pm
Suck it xenophobes – the feds won the lawsuit over the AZ law.
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
1:45 pm
Uh, no Bosch, they won a temporary injunction. They did not win the lawsuit.
And the matter of whether a state can trump Federal laws was NOT settled in the injunction at all.
Nice try, though.
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
1:49 pm
RW the Original ! Yes you did say RI . ..and I wasn’t asking if you have ever been to Newport in a sarcastic way . . .was just curious if you new the area . . ..and you definitely do!!! Got it.
No Opinion
July 28th, 2010
1:50 pm
Still waiting for any of the opinion writers on the AJC to actually have an original thought. Notice how day after day they wrap a few sentences around other people’s writing??
Big D
July 28th, 2010
1:50 pm
Jay,
You know what’s really sad…I wish the Republicans were as blood thirsty as the Dems are. They have no clue how to do the dirty on the opposition and it pisses me off. If Charley Rangle and John”Lerch” Kerry were Republicans they would be front page news for weeks and there would be sound bites every hour on ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC and CNN to prepare the audience for “the big story” at 6:00. You have no idea how good you have it with “big” media having your back.
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
1:55 pm
Dave R . . . . .I can see how you would feel he is dodging Mass taxes. But I don’t think that him being a Mass Senator requires him to have all his property in Mass. Hey I’m from Cape Cod and now living in Florida . . . so I understand the difference in Income Tax . . . we have none down here. But that is NOT why I left MA . . . . plus we pay almost 7% tax on just about everything . . .which was not something I worried about in MA . . . and folks trust me . . .that measly sounding 7% does add up! I just think unless he did something illegal . . . .who cares. RI is a US State. He wants to dock it there, fine. Don’t vote for him if you are mad. Come down here to SE FL and really get ticked off by going up and down the intercoastal and seeing what folks do to avoid taxes completely on their Super yachts.
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
2:00 pm
Recent, I don’t care if it is legal or not for him to do that. When he openly and loudly rails against the rich paying their fair share of taxes in front of every camera he can find (hence the nickname “Liveshot”), he loses the moral authority to complain about it when he does it himself!
IT IS THAT SIMPLE
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:01 pm
And I still haven’t heard you reply to the issue of if lower tax rates don’t create jobs, why is the boating industry booming in RI, where there is no luxury tax on boats, and failing in MA, where there is?
Dave..BOOMING??? Are we talking about DOCKING or shipbuilding?
I mean..boat building has taken a nose dive since the recession hit.
My oldest brother did the “smart thing” when buying a boat recently…he bought it used… boats are just one of those things that only fools buy new…are in the very least…those who are “fools” with their money….
As far as “lower tax rates” creating jobs… well…I’ll continually have to go back to the Bush tax cuts…where the rates were pretty much cut across the board…i just fail to see the “job creation” in them since their still in place.
I guess you and I will have to “agree” to disagree”…i find you highly intelligent…i do… I’ll not lash out and call you names (though I SO use humor which never transcends in the manner intended sometimes on these kind of blogs)… but I don’t see how cutting taxes MORE at this time will create MORE jobs right now. I mean..didn’t you say that corporations are holding onto their cash and not hiring? I mean what tax cut do we give them? WHAT is the “rate” they’ll be happy with to create jobs and start hiring.
Like I said…I enjoy your debates…i find you to be one of the more intelligent and well read here. My best friend is very much like you in our arguments… yet at the end of the day we hand up our political hats and put our 26 years of arguing politics aside (we met as freshmen in college)…. anyway… I’ll leave it with this…
If Kerry pays a MILLION dollars in taxes for his boat/ship/yacht… will it make a difference? If he does…then should EVERY multi-millionaire/billionaire living up and down the eastern seaboard (the majority from NY) have to move their boats? If he does…then they ALL do (those who have no residency in RI)… it’s long been a “tax haven” for the wealthy… yet they spend SO much to have their boats there and their residences… one would think that they DO in fact stimulate the economy just by doing so…
DK
July 28th, 2010
2:02 pm
Jay- the chart you showed can be interpretted in many ways and does not prove your point.
First- why not show the yearly job growth? This way we can see if tax cuts had impact after they passed and gained steam?
Second- Show the government spending growth rate for each year too since it is a fact that government spending crowds out private sector growth
Third- why start with the 40’s? Was there no growth in the years when we had a limited government, no social security and a minute tax rate?
Atlas Shrugging
July 28th, 2010
2:04 pm
Jay, yet another let’s stir the hate blog…..it’s sad that you only exist by fueling hate..
Wyld Byll Hyltnyr
July 28th, 2010
2:04 pm
Jay, now here is the ressssst of the story:
Clinton and Gore pushed NAFTA, which off shored an untold number of manufacturing jobs and set the stage for massive outsouring of non manufacturing jobs.
The vibrance provided by the Bush tax cuts more than offset offset the catastrophic effects of the Clinto/Gore NAFTA debacle until the Dodd/Frank driven housing bubble burst.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:05 pm
i just fail to see the “job creation” in them since their still in place.
oops again… must have been all that booze I stole off of Kerry’s ship…
I meant:
“They’re”
Know what?
I like Kerry… I do…but I bet they do NOT have any Heinz Ketchup aboard… if they do… I just don’t see that small “ship” being the kind of place where they entertain serving burgers…
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
2:13 pm
Saul, here’s the thing. I am NOT calling for more tax cuts. The deficit is way too high.
HOWEVER, I do not want the ones already in place to expire, either. And I want to see some deficit cutting FIRST, before I’ll sign on to the inevitable increase in taxes to get rid of this deficit.
And in RI, we’re talking about everything to do with maintaining and servicing those yachts. Lots of jobs that AREN’T in MA because they tax the crap out of those boats.
You’d think the senior senator from Mass. would do something about that whole “create jobs” thing in his own state, rather than take advantage of one right next door. But since he’s another of the “do as I say, not as I do” crowd, he gets rightly hammered for it.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:18 pm
“You’d think the senior senator from Mass. would do something about that whole “create jobs” thing in his own state,”
You’d think… but we’re not yacht owners…
Swift boating is over… I think there are WAY more important things to “argue” about… what they did was legal. Morally correct? That’s an issue to debate…. but at the end of the day it’s not going to change the world like taxes, wars, and other things which effect US.
Know what I mean?
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
2:19 pm
Dave R . . . .and I have no issue at all with your complaint. I’m sure that would mean Kerry would no longer get your vote – if you are still in MA and not GA. Personally, I don’t have any issue with super wealthy folks that have residences/property in multiple states. I actually would assume they do have much outside of the state – especially since his wife is a Pennsylvanian and an Heiress whom I’m sure has things all over the place. I don’t know what Kerry and wife pay in MA, but I’m gonna assume they still do have quite a bit of income and property there and pay the taxes their “accountants” tell them must be paid. Does Kerry rail against those who don’t pay state taxes or does he rail against the Federal Taxes?? Maybe both . . .but note – they are two very different things.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:20 pm
Opps…I hit “enter” too soon… What I was typing was…
This ends up being a matter for Massachusetts voters to decide. No laws were broken. If they can live with it… then it’s okay by me. None of the “missed” taxes would benefit you or I anyway… Leave it for the voters up THERE to decide.
Get Real
July 28th, 2010
2:25 pm
I guess all you pro-Obozo supporters have been on loan to another planet since Obozo took office. You complain about Bush but seem to fail at realizing the train wreck that Obozo has caused since he has been in office, i.e. higher un-employmnet, higher taxes, out of control spending, healthcare disaster, no support on immigration laws but what the hell…he can go on the View, be entertained by Paul McCartney, pal around with sports figures, shoot da hoops, read the teleprompter and play President! Does this idiot ever stop and think of all the diseases these illegals are bringing into America? I think the flotilla during the Carter days helped rapidly spread the Aids Virus. But, we are just sitting ducks for Iran, Venezula, North Korea or some other country to conger up some germ warfare and march it across the Mexican Boarder while Obozo continues to trash America and play president!
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
2:28 pm
Dave R . . .man we all hate taxes . ..and we all hate tax hikes. But the Republicans pushed the Bush Tax Cuts through reconciliation and only asked for them through the end of 2010. Many bash the President for the deficit, now that the Admin may just let these taxes expire (for the top what is it . . 2 or 3%?) he again is getting bashed. Why didn’t GWB ask to have the 2010 time period extended in 2007 or 2008? I do know this, we cannot compare Fed Taxes to varying state taxes. You’d have to do more than just go to another state to find a lesser “Fed Tax”. Of course some could say that the Tax Hike will lead to Outsourcing!!! Well I’ve been in the IT world since 1993 . . . . I can tell you quite distinctly that I have never seen anything like the outsourcing of 2000!! In the 90’s I was used to setting up new Data Centers/Call Centers in different states that were less expensive. In the 2000’s I saw whole Divisions get outsourced Offshore . . . .those Tax Cuts did not stop that at all! Just more money in pockets . . .and I’m not against that . . .but it is what it is . .more money in pockets . . . . more jobs gone, gone , gone.
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:28 pm
“higher taxes”
Get Real…name them and post them…
Dave R.
July 28th, 2010
2:29 pm
I just find the left’s hypocrisy in forgiving their own for transgressions, see Rangel, Jefferson, Pelosi, Kerry, Dodd, Frank, et al, while pummeling each and every Republican that sneezes without covering his mouth is rather laughable.
Once "Recent" Reader
July 28th, 2010
2:31 pm
Get Real . . .what did the previous Admin do about Iran, Venezuela, N Korea, and the Mexican Border issue that was so great. Boy during GW’s Admin I never saw Fox News jump all over the Illegal Immigration issue nor the Republicans. This is not a new issue – but I’m glad everyone at least “expects” more from our current President.
Get Real
July 28th, 2010
2:31 pm
Saul Good
July 28th, 2010
2:28 pm
“higher taxes”
Get Real…name them and post them…
Can you spell Healthcare?
duke
July 28th, 2010
2:34 pm
Viewing the long-term data, there is no question that tax cuts stimulate economic growth, which increases tax revenue. There is an optimum tax rate for maximum tax revenue. Zero tax produces zero revenue; but 100% tax also produces zero revenue, because nobody will work if the government takes it all. The optimum tax rate can be determined from long-term economic data, and it is well below what we pay today.
Bush’s problem, one problem among many, is that he presided over a larger increase in government spending and government regulation than any Democrat before Obama would have dared to indulge. He actually made Bill Clinton look like a moderate.
So what’s your recipe, Bookman? More taxes, more regulation, and more litigation?
Nobody is so stupid to fail to realize that you cannot print this much money and stay afloat. If you can receive it, Obama is deliberately destroying the dollar. The plan is to replace it with a North American currency.