Reality therapy can be harsh for those with repressed memory

I know I’m not supposed to do this.

Modern economic history is now said to begin on Jan. 20, 2009, the day that Barack Obama took the oath of office as president, and nothing that occurred prior to that date is supposed to be mentioned in polite company. In fact, anybody who dares to look back more than 18 months is deemed guilty of “dredging up the past,” which has become a thought crime of the highest order.

Well, to hell with that.

From The Washington Post, Jan. 2, 2010:

GR2010010101701

“There has been zero net job creation since December 1999. No previous decade going back to the 1940s had job growth of less than 20 percent. Economic output rose at its slowest rate of any decade since the 1930s as well.

Middle-income households made less in 2008, when adjusted for inflation, than they did in 1999 — and the number is sure to have declined further during a difficult 2009. The Aughts were the first decade of falling median incomes since figures were first compiled in the 1960s.

And the net worth of American households — the value of their houses, retirement funds and other assets minus debts — has also declined when adjusted for inflation, compared with sharp gains in every previous decade since data were initially collected in the 1950s.”

I know that’s quite a shock to many of you. Bringing back such deeply repressed memories can be very, very traumatic. But I want you to gather yourself because we’re now at the important part. Try to remember: What was the primary economic strategy during that decade that we are now supposed to block from our memory banks and pretend never happened?

Two words, seven letters. The first word begins with T…

Who said “tax cuts?” Very good. I see it’s all coming back to you now.

And what is the GOP’s primary economic strategy for the next decade, their sole prescription for restoring lost jobs, income, hope and opportunity (all of which began disappearing Jan. 20, 2009)?

That’s right, more tax cuts. As John Boehner told us the other day, “We’ve seen over the last 30 years that lower marginal tax rates have led to a growing economy, more employment and more people paying taxes.”

Is that really what we’ve seen, class?

(h/t Barry Ritholz)

437 comments Add your comment

Bud Wiser

July 28th, 2010
8:59 am

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:01 am

anybody who dares to look back more than 18 months is deemed guilty of “dredging up the past,” which has become a thought crime of the highest order.

Well, how else is a Republican to make himself/herself look like a viable option in future elections. You just gots to be able to wipe that slate clean before commencing to trickle down on it all over again.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:01 am

Jay, Jay, Jay, you seem to forget the awful repressed memory of the .com bubble burst that began under Clinton, and the resulting mini-recession following 9/11.

When are you going to learn that there are REASONS behind posting raw numbers.

We in the real world call them “facts”.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:05 am

And copied from below. Apparently John Kerry (remember your standard-bearer in 2004 along with the wife-cheating, baby-making, ambulance-chaser?) believes in tax cuts for himself – just not the rest of us:

Have you been reading about the hoopla surrounding the now senior senator from Massachusetts, John Forbes Kerry, and his $7 million yacht and his dodging of taxes in Mass.? Seems he’s tried to avoid paying both excise taxes in his town and state taxes of almost $500k for luxury goods by mooring his New Zealand-built (what’s the matter, John, U.S. manufacturers not good enough for you?) 70-foot “Isabel” in neighboring Rhode Island, where they have no taxes on luxury items such a yachts.

After he tried to throw trust-fund wife Theresa Heinz under the bus for being the owner, he finally agreed to pay up the owed taxes.

But the more interesting thing is what Howie Carr of the Boston Herald wrote regarding the luxury boating industry thriving in Rhode Island, largely due to a favorable TAX policy. He writes:

“At least for the maritime industry, Rhode Island has embraced trickle-down economics. As a friend of mine who knows a lot about boats says, Rhode Island’s no-tax policy “has encouraged the development of a marine industry that earnestly caters to yachts and commercial vessels, centered around the Town of Middleton on the western shore of Narragansett Bay… sail makers, caterers (sailors have to eat) marine mechanics, radio-servicing companies and the like….
“Mass. has a few good yacht marinas, like McDougall’s down in Hyannis, but these businesses are few and far between… Were I Kerry, I would never be able to find the quantity or quality of marine professionals in Massachusetts that are available in Rhode Island. This is pure Reaganomics – a great economy that is a direct result of a sound and easy taxing policy.”
Imagine Kerry coming clean and explaining that indisputable truth – that Rhode Island’s maritime industry has forged ahead of Massachusetts’ because they’ve rejected his – and his party’s – crackpot confiscatory tax policies, at least for one industry.”

As Carr so aptly writes: “Why the long face, Sen. Kerry?”

ty webb

July 28th, 2010
9:07 am

well, jay’s convinced me. Please federal government…take more of my money. You do such an efficient job with it, you might as well have more.

Outhouse GoKart

July 28th, 2010
9:08 am

This is very traumatic.

Bud Wiser

July 28th, 2010
9:10 am

With an unbiased eye and retrospective look, that may or may not be the case, Jay.

But no growth sure beats the crap out of massive job loss, massive increased spending into deficit hell, increased and hidden taxes with nothing to show for it, and continued rising unemployment well above what Obozo claimed would be a ‘peak’ of 8%.

At least we have a ‘president’ that thinks it more important to be on The View, surrounded by swooning morons and sycophants, instead of being in his office trying to solve complex problems.

Nice way to mark Day 100 of the oil spill in the gulf, his albatross that will forever stain his tenure and how (perhaps even more than the disaster he is wreaking on the economy) he will be remembered by historians.

With his track record as the first minority elected to the highest office in the land, it could be decades or longer before another African American could even consider running for president, knowing that the nation had already felt the effects of this particular social experiment, and could not bring themselves to vote for another, qualified or not.

Obozo – He’ll take the whole party down with him before admitting mistakes (like his partner in stupidity, Rangel), because as he always says (and is echoed so eloquently here by his stooge Bookman), it’s all Bush’e fault.

You clowns need to get some new material, you’re boring the hell out of everyone with the same cold stew.

Jay

July 28th, 2010
9:11 am

Facts, Dave R?

Like the fact that there was no “mini-recession” after 9/11?

Put in another quarter and try again.

Jay

July 28th, 2010
9:13 am

Besides, there were recessions in the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s, ’80s and ’90s too. That too is a fact.

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:15 am

By the way, Jay, the only viable solution to global warming is to burn more coal and the only way we can afford to do that is if people like Massey get a big tax credit (not just a tax cut) and a extra large helping of de-regulation. And the sooner the better. Also, you could help matters a lot if you would spread the word that we all need to be nicer to folks like BP and Massey and even Goldman Sachs and maybe even apologize for any past bad words spoken and even give out some words of praise and thanks, maybe on Sundays. K.

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:15 am

Jay:

I predicted last night your thread this morning would be “economics” …………… :o

Keep bringing this up ….. “Che” Obama is history.

“And so he bowed.”

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:15 am

Jay – “Like the fact that there was no “mini-recession” after 9/11? ”

well, technically, 9/11 happened in the middle of the “mini-recession”

http://www.nber.org/cycles/july2003.html

ty webb

July 28th, 2010
9:15 am

“Besides, there were recessions in the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s, ’80s and ’90s too. That too is a fact.”

can we pin those on Bush too, Jay? I don’t know, maybe something involving a flux capacitor?

Jay

July 28th, 2010
9:17 am

I’m off-line for a while, check back in around 11 or so. Don’t bust up the place.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:18 am

(cranking up the stereo)

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:19 am

Ahh yes…I recall yesterday a few who kept saying but “Obama is President” NOW…and not Bush any longer. Yet they never want to account for the fact that Obama INHERITED this recession…and two wars… and those things came from an Administration that started those wars… and cut taxes as opposed to ever financing them… which was a big part of the reason we ended up with such a severe recession in the first place (along with the housing bubble)…

Yet jay’s right…and I’ve asked many over and over and over here… just WHAT would the republicans do different right now if they were in charge? Either I get no answer or the usual “cut taxes”… the very same thing that didn’t work and that helped nearly sink this ship in the first place.

Did we cut taxes during WWII while our debt was increasing?

The party of “cut taxes” fails to take blame for their failed economic policies which lead us to this near depression… by casting blame on Obama they become laughable because I’ve not seen ONE bill that offered to help fix the economy or create jobs drafted by them which differed from the very same failed principles that caused the mess.

Try a NEW approach republicans… first start by admitting that cutting taxes created NO jobs. It in fact LOST jobs… millions of them by time Obama took office.

First you have to PLUG the hole to stop the leak. He’s done that. It take a while to fill that HUGE CRATER left behind from the failed economic policies from the last administration. Least you could do is grab a shovel or bucket and start doing something to help fill the hole you dug. It would be “American” and “Patriotic” to do so… stating on the sidelines whining and screaming never solved any problems. Certainly not helping this one.

Unkindest Tax Cut

July 28th, 2010
9:19 am

Shakespeare dealt with this very topic:

For Bush, as you know, was Cheney’s angel.
Judge, O you gods, how dearly Cheney lov’d him!
This was the most unkindest tax cut of all;

Del

July 28th, 2010
9:19 am

Jay,
you’re trying to help the campaigner and chief but unfortunately the past doesn’t resonate with the American people. The latest CBO report paints a grim economic picture, so the problem you have is attempting to live in the past while the country has to live in the present and future.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:22 am

Yeah, Jay, we wouldn’t want to equate the stock market dropping like a rock and businesses frozen into inaction as anything else, now would we?

Because that would inject some REASON behind your convenient statistics, wouldn’t it?

As before, there are lies, damned lies and statistics – no difference. And you hang your hat on them every chance you get without ever looking behind the numbers.

I suggest you try to listen to or read about U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, arguably one of the brightest minds on Capitol Hill (from any party) regarding tax policy and deficit reduction. You’ll find that according to him 75% of the recipients of the Bush Tax Cuts are small business owners who don’t file as corporations, and they are the employers providing the majority of net new jobs in the economy. And that even if they didn’t create a single job (which they did) the net impact to the overall deficit would have been about 15% of the total since implemented.

So let’s just kill those small businesses off like we’re doing with our larger corporations and banks with more irrational taxing policy, shall we?

jt

July 28th, 2010
9:23 am

Yea, let’s do history.

Your little job growth chart is in direct correlation with the growth of a parasitic Federal government.

(see the Czech Republic, Argentina, USSR, etc……………..)

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

“Yeah, Jay, we wouldn’t want to equate the stock market dropping like a rock and businesses frozen into inaction as anything else, now would we?”

um, the Dow is UP 25% since Obama took office.

nice try, but you don’t get to create your own facts.

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

It’s a good thing that, according to Republican theory, tax cuts don’t require any corresponding cuts in spending to pay for them. All they require is someone willing to finance them under the Republican “Tax Cuts to Go, no accumulated interest or payments for ten years plan”. Now, where have I seen that plan before. If only I could remember.

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

Jay:

Do you still have an “Obama” sticker on your car?

Here’s how to get it off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

Saul, in case you missed it, Hope & Change has failed to plug the jobs leak or the economic leak.

Just sayin’ . . .

And don’t give me that “what have the Republicans proposed” garbage. They can’t propose a single thing. It can’t even get into a committee for a reading the way that Princess Pelosi has the House organized. Try understanding the process before you complain about it.

AmVet

July 28th, 2010
9:27 am

Dad’s leaving for awhile? Party! Party! Party!

Well, to hell with that.>/i>

Good man. Jay! To hell indeed.

They will run and they will forever try to hide under their beds now, but many of us will never let the creeps escape answering for their horrible misdeeds and horrificly misguided misgovernance.

How any sentient being could *ever* again trust these fake conservatives in this hijacked, Dixified, whites only, stuck in the 1950s GOP with effective governance, is completely beyond me. Their track record is irrefutable and it is beyond abysmal. Across the board. In foreign policy, in ethics (or lack thereof), in domestic policy, in environmental policy and certainly in fiscal policy.

The nation, simply put, is reeling backwards after eight straight years of BushCo plundering and their chosen, botched, murderous and moronic “wars”. Nearly 5,000 dead GIs – all lost needlessly. Trillions of dollars wasted and unaccounted for. Longstanding allies who would have nothing to do with those lunatic oilmen and laughable rogue cowboys.

And there ain’t no way the United States of America can recover from such lawlessness and criminality at the very pinnacle of our government in a mere eighteen months. Hell, the cons did such a great job at ruining things, it may well take another ten years to get the nation out of the ditch and back on the tracks.

Millions of jobs – gone. Millions of families – ruined. The future is more dismal than at any time in a century or more. All because you idiots swallowed that obvious BushCo bullsh-t, hook, line and sinker. You must be thrilled for your children, and their children.

And this topic of the convenient, pre-2009 right-wing dementia is more than a little ironic, given last night’s timid protest how the “conservatives” on this blog were to a man, forcefully and repeatedly decrying GWB’s non-conservatism.

Which is of course, a complete crock. They lapped up his and Dick’s drool like starving curs. They are like apprehended criminals who after hours of interrogation, finally admit in the least forthright way possible that yes, they did rob the hardware store.

And if their legacy of failure was not so deadly and damaging, these historical revisionist neo-cons would be funny.

And their one sputtering defense is, “But mommy! The Democrats are bad too!”

Yeah, no ____ Sherlock. But amazingly you almost make them look fairly competent you are such losers.

And to complete the theme, you BushCo apologists can all go to ____.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:28 am

Immediate Post-9/11, USinUK, not current market trends.

The frozen into inaction part? Both then and now, though.

Soothsayer

July 28th, 2010
9:28 am

It’s impossible to have job creation when you give tax incentives to corporations to ship our jobs overseas. Pure and simple. Can’t stay–have to work for a living. Check in this evening.

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:28 am

nice try, but you don’t get to create your own facts.

Hey, that’s not fair to the Republicans. How will they be able to survive.

Gammer

July 28th, 2010
9:29 am

USinUK – I’m quite sure Dave R was referring to 2007-08 and the failures of Bear Stearns and Lehman.

Here’s a question for you: How much is the deficit up since Obama took office? 25%??

Lord Help Us

July 28th, 2010
9:30 am

Quite a few posts already and yet not one from the cons that dares to even acknowledge the facts about the economic performance during the Bush Administration.

The decline of net worth, zero net job creation, and the decline of middle class incomes…pesky facts.

By all means, let’s return to the economic policies that were so effective…

Midori

July 28th, 2010
9:32 am

Dave R.

the problem with you and people of your ilk is a complete and utter lack of focus. and relevancy.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

July 28th, 2010
9:33 am

Well, like I said many times before, I want my Tax Cut, I demand my Tax Cut, and if I don’t get my Tax Cut me and a whole bunch of Tea Partiers are going to drive our pickups up to DC and lay down on the Congress floor and hold our breath and kick and scream till we get our Tax Cut.

Don’t try and confuse me with facts, Bookman. You know where you can shove your facts. Just because there ain’t been no jobs created since 1999 is no reason to say more Tax Cuts won’t create some. You always got to wait a few decades to see some results. Heck, it’s only been 30 years since the Reagan Tax Cuts and we’re still waiting for Trickle Down to happen. It just takes a long time, is all. One day all us little people are going to be driving around and feel a tiny sprinkle and then we’re going to get a flood of Trickle On like we would get if the dam busted. Just you wait and see.

I bet you’re the kind that really likes telling little kids there ain’t no Santa Claus, ain’t you, Bookman? What a low-down skunk!

I’m disgusted. Have a good day everybody.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:33 am

Dave – “Immediate Post-9/11, USinUK, not current market trends.”

the NBER determines when recessions start and end.

Soothsayer

July 28th, 2010
9:33 am

Gammer: how much is the economy and tax collections down? 25%??

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

Do you still have an “Obama” sticker on your car?

Here’s how to get it off:

Or you just save money and the environment and recycle those old Bush <strongSticker removers.

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

“Yeah, Jay, we wouldn’t want to equate the stock market dropping like a rock and businesses frozen into inaction as anything else, now would we?”

Stock market dropping like a rock?

Stock Market first day of Obama in office: 7949

Stock Market TODAY: 10,521

So… The market being up over 30% in 18 months SUCKS? Tell me…. where do you invest that you get better returns? Sounds to me like the Stock market and investors LIKE what Obama has been doing…if not…it would be DOWN…just like it ended after 8 years of Bush.

That’s okay…historically for over 100 years Democratic administrations have ALWAYS reigned over more successful stock market results compared to Republicans. They just want you to THINK that the market performs better under their administrations….nothing could be further from the truth.

Balance Our Budget

July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

What is it with liberals and their desire to give the government more of their money?Do they think the government can spend it more wisely then they can?Maybe Jay can set a example and donate his salary this year to the good ole IRS.

Joe

July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

Bookman: “What was the primary economic strategy during that decade that we are now supposed to block from our memory banks and pretend never happened?

The answer, more specifically, is tax cuts that apply primarily to households where most of their income is unearned (i.e., inheritance, dividends, and capital gains) and those at the top of the income ladder, thereby ultimately shifting the long-run burden of taxes to the poor and middle class who receive most of their incomes from setting their alarms and going to work every day (notice that Paul Ryan’s Roadman introduces a regressive consumption tax).

Let’s also recall that another aspect of the conservative (so-called) economic strategy is to decimate protections for consumers, workers, the environment, and small investors.

Nothing has changed in their, now secret, platform.

BADA BING

July 28th, 2010
9:35 am

Alright, the columnist is absent, the substitute columnist will be here in a minute. Everyone switch names, girls answer ‘Here’ when a boy’s name is called, and vice versa. When the sub asked what we were supposed to be studying, we tell them that on Wednesdays we are supposed to have a free period to to whatever we want. Somebody order pizzas.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:37 am

Gammer – “USinUK – I’m quite sure Dave R was referring to 2007-08 and the failures of Bear Stearns and Lehman.”

what would that have to do with the economy under Obama (the topic of Jay’s post)???

“How much is the deficit up since Obama took office? 25%??”

easy one: the price of 2 wars, which had NOT been included in the budget under Bush.

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:37 am

Oops! That should read, Bush Sticker Remover, for the mentally challenged out there.

Normal

July 28th, 2010
9:38 am

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:26 am

No thanks, I’m keeping mine. Every time some Anti Obama person tries to make a fuss about it, I get to insult and embarrass him in front of his friends, wife and girlfriend. It’s fun and almost too easy because all they spout are talking points and have no real idea of what America is all about. Their version is what they get from The Justice League Comic Books….what a “laffer”

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:38 am

“the problem with you and people of your ilk is a complete and utter lack of focus. and relevancy.”

Midori, written by someone who has never, ever provided any reasoned argument in their entire history on this blog (do you and TaxPayer share the same therapist?). I think I shall continue to ignore you.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:38 am

“What is it with conservatives and their desire to pass along debt to their children, seeing as how they never want to pay for what they use?”

there ya go. typo fixed, at no charge

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:40 am

Dave R: “And don’t give me that “what have the Republicans proposed” garbage. They can’t propose a single thing. It can’t even get into a committee for a reading the way that Princess Pelosi has the House organized. Try understanding the process before you complain about it.”

Oh and tell me how for 6 loooooog years the democrats were able to have their voices heard in congress… you’re right…they and the bills they wanted were kindly welcomed with open arms and warm hearts.

Either way…you can’t deny that the stock market is ROCKING… The jobs decrease from over 750,000 a month has now been stopped…. if THAT is not “plugging the hole” then I don’t know what else is…

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:41 am

(cranking up the stereo)

Holy CRAP!!! That made me LOL!

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:41 am

“the NBER determines when recessions start and end.”

Well excuuuuuuuuse meeeeeeeeeee, USinUK!

We’ll just use the term “economic downturn” then, shall we?

ty webb

July 28th, 2010
9:42 am

“The answer, more specifically, is tax cuts that apply primarily to households where most of their income is unearned (i.e., inheritance, dividends, and capital gains)”

yeah, and they spend all their free time playing polo on unicorns.

Gale

July 28th, 2010
9:42 am

Tax cuts -might- have created jobs. But there are so many other factors at work. Laws and taxes that reward companies that send manufacturing to other countries. Taxes that hamper small business. A public education system that is churning out more and more drop-outs, resulting in unemployable workers and an uneducated electorate, who none the less vote their emotions and goodies into their pockets. A welfare system that does not encourage people to work – if there are jobs. Farm subsidies that do not produce food and harm small farmers. Not to mention two wars. We could go on and on.

The biggest problem is politicians pandering to the electorate. Politicians latch onto the quick fixes based on electorate emotions. Quick simple fixes will not cure our American society.

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:42 am

Jay:

Since you like economics so much, how about a thread on this ?

Headline: “CBO BOMB: ‘Deficits will cause debt to rise to unsupportable levels’…”

N-GA

July 28th, 2010
9:43 am

Give a tax cut to a Physician in private practice and he/she will go out immediately and hire a nurse or a lab tech or a receptionist……NOT!

Give a tax cut to a restaurant owner and he/she will immediately go out and hire a chef or a waitress or a bartender…….NOT!

Give a tax cut to a home builder and he/she will immediately go out and hire a carpenter or a brick layer or a roofer……NOT!

None of these individuals/small business owners will hire people if their taxes are cut. They will only hire people when they get more customers.

The GOP represents 2 blocs of constituents – Big Business and Big Money. Yet they pander to the primal needs of intellectually-challenged voters: religion, false patriotism, racism,, homophobia, selfishness and greed.

Just stating the obvious!

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:43 am

Normal:

I like someone who goes down with the ship !

Del

July 28th, 2010
9:44 am

Actually the economy greatly improved after we recovered from the Clinton recession and did fairly well until the Democrats regained control of congress. Now not only do the Democrats control Congress but we also have a far-left socialist as president. Tough times indeed.

Lord Help Us

July 28th, 2010
9:44 am

Scout, ‘Since you like economics so much, how about a thread on this ?’

And just how would President Scout propose to balance the budget?

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:45 am

N. GA, you’re right…plain and simple: The tax cuts that were “promised” to create jobs did NOT.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:46 am

“Well excuuuuuuuuse meeeeeeeeeee, USinUK!”

um. is that you’re example of a “reasoned argument”??

just wondering.

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:46 am

ty webb

July 28th, 2010
9:47 am

“The GOP represents 2 blocs of constituents – Big Business and Big Money. Yet they pander to the primal needs of intellectually-challenged voters: religion, false patriotism, racism,, homophobia, selfishness and greed.”

Yeah, they really should dumb dowm their campaign slogans for these “intellectually-challenged voters”. Is “Hope and Change” still taken?

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
9:47 am

“I know I’m not supposed to do this.”

Well, Jay, we all do crazy stuff, it’s ok.

“““““““““

And….

“Have you been reading about the hoopla surrounding the now senior senator from Massachusetts, John Forbes Kerry, and his $7 million yacht and his dodging of taxes in Mass.?”

No, because, really, who gives a crap?

John Kerry

July 28th, 2010
9:48 am

No, because, really, who gives a crap?

Speaking of which, have I mentioned recently that I have defecated greater beings than Howie Carr?

ty webb

July 28th, 2010
9:49 am

John Kerry,
Why the long face?

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
9:50 am

N-GA,

You forgot those who are fighting for their right to be uninsured.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:50 am

Saul, you really need to get your meds adjusted. Chill out.

You’ll never find me defending the ways of Congress or either side of the aisle in their performance. But I will call out those who try to foist statistical “evidence” without proper backup as Gospel, as Jay does on a regular basis.

The stock market is only ONE indicator of economic performance, and it isn’t the best one at that. People invest to make money, and they make money when companies announce profits. However, profits are up because businesses are cutting or containing COSTS, not by creating or selling more. Inventories are down, hiring is non-existent. Everything is on hold waiting for the next shoe to drop, and costs are going to go up next year due to HCR.

The leak isn’t plugged, it has only slowed down. But at the cost of trillions of dollars of new debt (and NOT merely because of the war reporting as USinUK alleges) that freezes available cash to help private firms expand when they see an opportunity to do so.

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:51 am

“You forgot those who are fighting for their right to be uninsured.”

Ain’t dat da truth!

TGT

July 28th, 2010
9:51 am

Just as with Jay’s top 1% graph yesterday, he fails to tell the whole story. As this graphic shows:

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

From the middle of 2003 until 2008 there was significant U.S. job growth, which was, among other things, as a result of the Bush tax cuts. It was only after the subprime crisis that job growth turned negative.

Also, Try to remember: What was the primary economic strategy during that decade of the 1980’s? Two words, seven letters. The first word begins with T…

Also, what other president is known for his tax cuts? Kennedy

From his April 20, 1961 appeal to congress for tax cuts:

High capital formation can be sustained only by a high and rising level of demand for goods and service. Indeed, the investment incentive itself can contribute materially to achieving the prosperous economy under which this incentive will make its maximum contribution to economic growth. Rather than delaying its adoption until all excess capacity has disappeared and unemployment is low, we should take this step now to strengthen our anti-recession program, stimulate employment and increase our export markets.

Additional expenditures on plant and equipment will immediately create more jobs in the construction, lumber, steel, cement, machinery and other related capital goods industries. The staffing of these new plants-and filling the orders for new export markets-will require additional employees. The additional wages of these workers will help create still more jobs in consumer goods and service industries. The increase in jobs resulting from a full year’s operation of such an incentive is estimated at about half a million.

Specifically, therefore, I recommend enactment of an investment tax incentive in the form of a tax credit of:

-15% of all new plant and equipment investment expenditures in excess of current depreciation allowances

-6% of such expenditures below this level but in excess of 50% of depreciation allowances; with

-10% on the first $5,000 of new investment as a minimum credit

Imagine that from a lib: Tax cuts create jobs.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:51 am

g’morning, Bosch! to paraphrase Nina Simone, it’s a new dawn, it’s a new day and I hope you’re feeling good … well, if not good, at least okay …

BADA BING

July 28th, 2010
9:52 am

Scout…..don’t worry about the obama bumper stickers. It’s the first thing the banks remove when they are repo-ed.

david wayne osedach

July 28th, 2010
9:52 am

If the news was good they wouldn’t have to dredge it up. The powers that be would be shoving it down your throat.

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:54 am

No, USinUK, it is my response to your insistence on using a proper term for what happened following 9/11, in complete disregard of your acknowledging the actual fact.

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
9:55 am

Dave R. : “The leak isn’t plugged, it has only slowed down. But at the cost of trillions of dollars of new debt (and NOT merely because of the war reporting as USinUK alleges) that freezes available cash to help private firms expand when they see an opportunity to do so.”

Really? How many jobs a month are we losing now…I’d say it stopped. Yes there’s a cost involved… just like we created MASSIVE dept. from the New Deal AND from WWII… it took that massive government spending to end the Great Depression…NOT cutting taxes. Regardless if you credit the New Deal or WWII for ending the depression…it still came down to massive government spending and massive debt because of it (spending)… did our nation collapse? No…it ended the collapse and it was all being paid back by every administration until Reagan took office. That’s the TRUTH my friend. SPENDING ended the great depression…not tax cuts.

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
9:55 am

USinUK,

I am feeling better — thanks. I’m designing my newest tattoo for the occasion. :-)

Peadawg

July 28th, 2010
9:56 am

Well, to hell with that. Let’s blame Bush anyways. It’s what we Democrats do best.

^^^^^^
Fixed your typo, Jay.

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
9:56 am

USinUK,

Hit submit too soon- you inspired me talking about your mom and your tattoo.

Del

July 28th, 2010
9:56 am

I wonder if Jay gets sufficient sleep. He must stay up all night piecing together his voodoo economic statistics for his blog topics that attempt to defer attention from the present economic mess we’re in. You lib’s enjoy a nice day of commiseration. later

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:57 am

OHFERCRYINGOUTLOUD, TGT –

do you have any idea how HIGH taxes were when JFK proposed his tax cuts???

obviously not.

the top marginal rate was an eye-watering 91%

today’s top rate is roughly a THIRD of that.

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
9:57 am

Del,

“his voodoo economic”

Nah, he just looks up “Ronald Reagan” on Wikipedia.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
9:57 am

Bosch -NO WAY!!! what’d you get?

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
9:57 am

Yeah, Bosch, we wouldn’t want to point out the obvious disconnect between a wealthy (third wealthiest member of Congress) former standard-bearer of your party trying to avoid taxes just like you claim the conservative rich try to avoid their taxes, now would we?

Because THAT might negate all your poutrage over the rich not paying their “fair share”, and we can’t have that, can we?

TaxPayer

July 28th, 2010
9:59 am

Republicans could not even do their tax cuts right even when they had control of Congress and the White House. Leave it to the Republicans to model their tax cuts after a Rooms-to-Go plan and then complain about the lousy job they did when their payment due date arrives ten years later but they did not plan on how to make the payments once they became due, with interest. And on top of that, they expect others to fix it for them. How! By refinancing!

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
10:00 am

Dave R – “No, USinUK, it is my response to your insistence on using a proper term for what happened following 9/11, in complete disregard of your acknowledging the actual fact.”

the economy hit its trough in November following 9/11 then started to improve. I don’t really know why you want to argue that fact – particularly as you haven’t offered any evidence to the contrary whereas I’ve posted the NBER’s judgement on the matter.

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
10:00 am

TGT…you’re missing ONE important thing: Was there a WAR going on in 1961? TWO wars?

Also…feel free to look up what the top tier tax rate was back in 1961 before Kennedy proposed those cuts. They were 91% from 1951 until 1963. In 1964 they were lowered to 77%… Top tier now? 35%… (add to it all the corporate tax loopholes that have been created since as well)

Source: http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
10:00 am

USinUK,

I’m still in the “design” phase. Nothing yet. Will let you know.

Gammer

July 28th, 2010
10:01 am

what would that have to do with the economy under Obama (the topic of Jay’s post)???

Huh? Read Jay’s blog post again. It refers specifically to the era PRIOR to Obama taking office, not just the last 18 months. Good God.

easy one: the price of 2 wars, which had NOT been included in the budget under Bush

The wars Obama vehemently opposed back before he was POTUS. Now, funny enough, he takes credit for Iraq’s improving situation, Gitmo is still open, and Afghanistan is worse off.

You think, maybe, just maybe, that fantastic stimulus pork bill that was rammed down everyone’s throat that was supposed to keep unemployement under 9% MIGHT have something to do with our deficit?

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
10:01 am

“former standard-bearer of your party”

My party? Where? When? What time?

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
10:01 am

“That’s the TRUTH my friend. SPENDING ended the great depression…not tax cuts.”

There are more than a few reputable economists that will say that FDR EXTENDED the Great Depression through his policies, Saul, so I’ll take your version of the truth with the appropriate grain of salt.

Normal

July 28th, 2010
10:02 am

Scout

July 28th, 2010
9:43 am

Scout,
The difference between you and me, in spite of all of our shared experiences, is that you haven’t figured out that both political parties don’t give a rat’s patooie about you or me. They will both slap us on the back, thank us for our service (all the while cutting our bennies), maybe invite is to a barbeque ($5.00 at the door), tell us how they plan to right the wrongs the other Party caused and then…when our backs are turned…we get two knives in our back…one red and one blue.

I only give the Democrats the benefit of the doubt because a little of what they try to do makes sence. Nobody yet has been able to explain how tax cuts as the answer to all woes and the cure for dandruff really works. Until they do, I just laugh.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
10:02 am

BADA BING

July 28th, 2010
10:02 am

All you ‘armchair economists’…….. throw away your college textbooks and NY Times articles. Economics have changed, they are not the same as when you went to college, hell they are not the same as a year ago. The old models have been thrown away. Up is down, right is wrong. Old rules don’t apply, it’s a brave new world, and you and I will not like it.

popeye

July 28th, 2010
10:02 am

BADA BING……”It’s the first thing the banks remove when they are repo-ed.”

You don’t even want to go there pal…I believe most of the banks that have gone out of business happened on the repugs watch.

Not to mention the S & L scandal Iin which the Bush family played into the Savings and Loan debacle, which involved not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and were part of the Bush Jr. administration. Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars (note that this was about one quarter of our national debt).

TGT

July 28th, 2010
10:05 am

USinUK & Saul: Spin it all you want. Kennedy himself preached it. Tax cuts = job growth. And what about that “primary economic strategy during that decade of the 1980’s” that led to job growth?

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
10:05 am

“Economics have changed”

And I hear there’s this thing called “new math”

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
10:06 am

“Kennedy himself preached it. Tax cuts = job growth.”

Some people really don’t get relativity.

Bosch

July 28th, 2010
10:07 am

USinUK,

Apparently I’m having a party, and well, if you can, will you please make some canapes? I need some help.

Normal

July 28th, 2010
10:07 am

Additional expenditures on plant and equipment will immediately create more jobs in the construction, lumber, steel, cement, machinery and other related capital goods industries. The staffing of these new plants-and filling the orders for new export markets-will require additional employees. The additional wages of these workers will help create still more jobs in consumer goods and service industries. The increase in jobs resulting from a full year’s operation of such an incentive is estimated at about half a million.
————————————————————

Seem to me that most of the jobs created by tax cuts ended up being jobs created for India, China, Viet Nam, Mexico, etc. Yeah lot’s of help there…

Saul Good

July 28th, 2010
10:09 am

Dave R… still there’s no denying that the tax rates (top tier of 91%) were WAY higher throughout the 50’s… a time of economic prosperity… even throughout the 60’s they were more than double what they are now… did our economy suffer? Were businesses NOT hiring during those years because they paid “too much” in taxes? You’ll have to agree…it makes for a pretty strong argument.

TGT

July 28th, 2010
10:10 am

And Saul, you’re kidding about that war question right? You do remember that Vietnam conflict and the Cold War, right?

From Wikipedia:

In 1961, the USA had 50,000 troops based in Korea, and Kennedy faced a three-part crisis—the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the construction of the Berlin Wall, and a negotiated settlement between the pro-Western government of Laos and the Pathet Lao communist movement[92] These made Kennedy believe that another failure on the part of the United States to gain control and stop communist expansion would fatally damage U.S. credibility with its allies and his own reputation. Kennedy determined to “draw a line in the sand” and prevent a communist victory in Vietnam, saying, “Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place”, to James Reston of The New York Times immediately after meeting Khrushchev in Vienna.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
10:11 am

“Kennedy himself preached it. Tax cuts = job growth”

omfg.

do you not understand the difference between 91% marginal tax rate and 33%??

do you not understand that there IS a bottom below which you should not cut at the risk of increasing deficits???

Dave R.

July 28th, 2010
10:12 am

Note the subset of the Howie Carr article I posted above regarding the booming boat industry in Rhode Island. Made possible by a virtual no tax policy on luxury yachts and larger boats.

Tax cuts aren’t the only answer, but they sure do help.

USinUK

July 28th, 2010
10:12 am

Bosch – “Apparently I’m having a party, and well, if you can, will you please make some canapes?”

I’m all over it! nothing like gummint cheese on crackers!

AmVet

July 28th, 2010
10:12 am

Most discouraging.

That the faithful would regurgitate up that grammar school cr@p, “The economy was fine until…”

Whose rear end have you had your heads up??? What planet have you been living on?

The American economy has been little more than smoke and mirrors for decades. A house of cards built on an illusion.

70% of our entire GDP is based on SPENDING!

American families are debt riddled and unable to keep up with basic expenses, while the relatively tiny plutocracy lives very, very high on the trickle down hog. And you morons shuck and grin for them!!! And against yourselves and families!!!

Only in America can sheep be led so willingly to the slaughter.

And the job numbers? They’ve been a total farce for a long time.

People who had good, well paying jobs watched as they were shipped overseas by the millions.
They then re-entered the work force – eventually – in schlep retail jobs, etc. And now that is barely even possible.

You delusionists should be institutionalized…