Tumbling down into the rabbit hole of modern American politics

Income growth by income group, 1979-2007. Source: Consider the evidence )http://lanekenworthy.net/).

Income growth by income group, 1979-2007. Source: Consider the evidence (http://lanekenworthy.net/).

Let me see if I’ve got this straight:

Here we are in the smoldering ruins of an economy recently wrecked by Wall Street greed, in a country where for 30 years almost all income growth has been concentrated among the richest 1 percent of Americans (See graph to right). Rising populist anger, massive long-term unemployment and record home foreclosures serve as counterpoints to soaring corporate profits, while the Supreme Court rules that corporations are people and can spend limitless amounts of money trying to elect candidates willing to serve their interests.

Meanwhile, the Republican Party defends massive tax breaks for the wealthy while blocking aid to the unemployed, fights bitterly against regulations designed to prevent a repeat of the Wall Street meltdown, blocks legislation that would at least require corporate and special interests to identify themselves when they invest in elections and does all that while proclaiming itself to be the party of the little people.

Do I have that right? Or did somebody slip LSD into my coffee this morning? (Please, let it be the LSD. At least that will wear off eventually.)

342 comments Add your comment

mm

July 27th, 2010
11:08 am

Jay,

And yet the righties will jump on here and defend it. Puzzling or startling?

Matti

July 27th, 2010
11:12 am

Mr. Bookman, why do you hate freedom, God, the troops, hard work, reliable pick-up trucks, the flag, apple pie, and everything good and decent?

Haha! Just kidding, but that’s their response when you list the facts. Tax breaks and deregulation DO work to stimulate the economy — because they SO. Reality is not needed.

TaxPayer

July 27th, 2010
11:12 am

Actually, I think it’s something in the southern water table. Probably put there by BP or Monsanto or… Anyway, Don’t drink the water!

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
11:13 am

Senate 59-41 Democrat

House 253-178 Democrat

Presidency Democrat

and yet they whine…

mm

July 27th, 2010
11:19 am

RW,

And yet the wingnuts abuse the filibuster. And you deliver us your daily dose of drive-by whining.

Lisa Golden

July 27th, 2010
11:21 am

neo-Carlinist

July 27th, 2010
11:29 am

I can only wish I had LSD in my coffee this morning. to paraphrase my lord and savior George Carlin; “think about how dumb the average person is, and realize at least half the population is dumber”. I think the irony wrapped inside the riddle is; why do hardworking, tax-paying Americans continue to embrace a system that (another Carlin quote) “threw them overboard 30 years ago”? And for those keeping score, Obama is no different. The only difference between a Democrat and a Republican is over which side of the boat we are tossed (left or right)

Jefferson

July 27th, 2010
11:29 am

Somebody ain’t puttin’ in their fair share. Its what you have left that counts, not what you pay.

F. Sinkwich

July 27th, 2010
11:30 am

Gee, I’m shocked.

The achievers in our society keep doing what they do to be successful and they keep succeeding!

And conversely, the losers keep doing what they do to be losers, i.e, whine, blame others for their problems, envy success, vote for Obama, etc., and they keep losing!

I suggest there may be a lesson here.

Granny Godzilla

July 27th, 2010
11:31 am

Yes, why are the GOP calling for the biggest single increase to the deficit?

But, please don’t stop…and holler louder…..and make threats to secede….oh please don’t let it stop!

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:35 am

“(Please, let it be the LSD. At least that will wear off eventually.)”

if the graph starts talking to you, that’ll answer your question

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
11:36 am

Shame on conservatives!

Let the “but…but…but…“ Begin

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:37 am

“The achievers in our society keep doing what they do to be successful and they keep succeeding!”

yeah. it’s amazing how that happens when the deck is stacked their way.

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
11:37 am

Ah the filibuster. I remember a time way, way, way back in our history—about 2005—that Democrats said the filibuster was the thing that set us apart and made us a great nation. Something about the saucer that cooled the hot drink and all that.

F. Sinkwich

July 27th, 2010
11:38 am

Any particular reason you cut the chart off at 2007, Jay?

Hmmmmmm?

F. Sinkwich

July 27th, 2010
11:39 am

“…it’s amazing how that happens when the deck is stacked their way…”

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
11:40 am

Sinkwich, if the winners keep winning, where are the jobs and why is amerrica in a recession?

If this is what it looks like when the winners are winning…wow!

@@

July 27th, 2010
11:40 am

jay, I’ll get back to you when I see the GOVERNMENT creating jobs instead of saving their own

jobs.

neo-Carlinist

July 27th, 2010
11:41 am

F.Sink, This has nothing to do with “achievers” and “losers”. Were AIG, Bear Sterns, WaMu, and Merrill Lynch “successful”?

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
11:41 am

“Any particular reason you cut the chart off at 2007, Jay?”

It might, just maybe, have something to do with the title of the chart being: “Inequality rising: inflation-adjusted household incomes, 1979-2007″

Ya think?

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:43 am

“Thanks for helping me prove my point.”

next thing, you’re going to say that they all pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and that the “losers” at the bottom of the chart should do the same. :roll:

obama's fault

July 27th, 2010
11:44 am

Oh yes, the old lie….tax breaks for the wealthy blah blah blah. Don’t you realize that it is not just tax cuts for the wealthy but for everybody? And if it was tax cuts for just the wealthy, do you really think that they would be the ones paying for their lost income? Nope….it just gets passed on down to the rest of us. Meanwhile, over 50% of the people pay zero income tax. ZERO. And that is fair? And you don’t say a word about. Why?

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:44 am

Doggone – “It might, just maybe, have something to do with the title of the chart being: “Inequality rising: inflation-adjusted household incomes, 1979-2007″

not to mention, does he really think that there was a sudden surge in household incomes between 2008 and 2010?

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
11:45 am

“does he really think that there was a sudden surge in household incomes between 2008 and 2010?”

My best guess: yes, he does

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
11:47 am

Jay, I believe you have some of that “trickle down“ in your cereal.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:47 am

neo-carlin – “Were AIG, Bear Sterns, WaMu, and Merrill Lynch “successful”?”

don’t forget about the 42 Georgia banks

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

joe matarotz

July 27th, 2010
11:47 am

Jay, let’s see if we have this straight. Members of Congress are wealthy people. Members of Congress make the laws and set the policy of this country. Do you honestly believe that Congress would intentionally take it in the neck for the benefit of the rest of the U.S. citizens? In your case, it’s a rhetorical question. As a Democrat, you believe that the Government is looking out for your best interests. That’s why you swoon at the mere mention of Obama the Magnificent.

obama's fault

July 27th, 2010
11:48 am

Finn Mccool,
“Sinkwich, if the winners keep winning, where are the jobs and why is amerrica in a recession?”

Hey why don’t you ask the president and this Congress that question. They are the ones who promised the jobs when they passed the pork-filled stimulus plan that has been a complete failure. no more than 8% unemployment…..please.

JohnnyReb

July 27th, 2010
11:50 am

Capitalism is not perfect, but it has produced the most successful society in history – the USA. The answer, Jay, to your question as to why the public is embracing a flawed Republican party is, the public is not as dumb as some who post here think. The Dems are growing government. Government produces nothing – it just takes from one and gives to another. The Obama agenda is big government – take from one to give to another. Therefore unemployment, etc. The socialist policy failed with the Colonists. Show me a Dem party who can produce successful changes without taking from one to give to another, and I will show you untouchable voting majorities. The Dems have no solutions that are not Social Justice. Tricke up poverty is all they know.

Jay

July 27th, 2010
11:52 am

I didn’t put the chart together, Frank. As the credit points out, it was done by Lane Kenworthy and posted at his Consider the Evidence blog.

As to why Kenworthy ends it in 2007, it’s because that’s the most recent year for which the data are available. When he compiled a similar chart in 2008, it included data through 2005, because at the time THAT was the most recent data available. (http://lanekenworthy.net/2008/03/09/the-best-inequality-graph/)

Is that the answer you were looking for? Somehow I doubt it.

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
11:52 am

F. Sinkwich,

Rather than looking at the timeframe of the chart you ought to look up the guy that created it. This Lane Kenworthy is out there, WAY out there, then again he’s a professor so I guess I’m being somewhat redundant.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:53 am

“Hey why don’t you ask the president and this Congress that question.”

actually, I prefer to ask the companies that showed record profits during Q2 but still aren’t hiring …

… not to mention, the banks that received taxpayer $$$ but still aren’t lending …

but that’s just me.

YMMV

Jefferson

July 27th, 2010
11:53 am

You can’t have a societ of “haves” and “have nots”. The “have not” will TAKE it away if the gap gets too big. Ask Nick what happened in 1917, too big a gap.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:54 am

“Is that the answer you were looking for? Somehow I doubt it.”

nope – you’re all part of that Apocolypso Journolisto Conspiracy!!

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

July 27th, 2010
11:54 am

Well, I don’t know much about the other junk Bookman writes about but us Republicans need a Tax Cut real bad and if we don’t get our Tax Cut we’re going to drive our pickups up there to Washington and lay down on the Congress floor and hold our breath and kick and scream till we get our Tax Cut.

Like I said many times before we’re so Productive they ought to pay us just to live in this country. We could have another Tax Cut if they just put all the lazy 80 year olds to work and made the Welfare Queens go out and get a job and buy some linament for all the people we’re paying Medicaid for now.

Besides, I guess Bookman never heard of Trickle Down. After 30 years we’re still waiting and it’s a-comin’. People will change their mind when they start getting Trickled On. It will start as a little Trickle and pretty soon it will look like Niagra Falls and we’ll be swimming in money. If we can keep the librul Democrats from turning us into a Commie country and just let the Trickle Down work a little more.

Anyhow, it’s time for my beanie-weenies and a big old RC with a moon pie. Have a good p.m. everybody.

Jay

July 27th, 2010
11:55 am

“Meanwhile, over 50% of the people pay zero income tax. ZERO. And that is fair? And you don’t say a word about. Why?”

Maybe because that is a flat-out lie?

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
11:56 am

Johnny reb, do you have a clue as to how long rome lasted. The us has only 235 years in the books so you might want to rethink your broad historical platitudes.

Scout

July 27th, 2010
11:58 am

Jay:

You have it right and that’s why captialism has made for the greatest country in the world and socialism/communism just doesn’t work.

The more rich the better (and I am not one) because that means a lot of money and jobs are floating around.

I just don’t see what that is so hard to understand? When the rich buy yachts ……….. people have work.

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
11:58 am

O.F: “Meanwhile, over 50% of the people pay zero income tax. ZERO. And that is fair? And you don’t say a word about. Why?”

Source of THAT propaganda please?

JohnnyReb

July 27th, 2010
11:58 am

Finn, I stated successful, not length.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
11:59 am

finn – all he knows is that it ended badly …

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
12:00 pm

“When the rich buy yachts ……….. people have work.”

but if the general population stops buying the goods/services that made the rich what they are…then they get less rich, they buy fewer yachts…and fewer people have jobs. Which means even less buying of goods/services.

The “rich” don’t create jobs…BUYERS create jobs.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:01 pm

“The more rich the better (and I am not one) because that means a lot of money and jobs are floating around.”

scout – you’ve evidently missed the point of the graph – which is that there aren’t MORE rich – just that the top 1% have MORE wealth.

Jay

July 27th, 2010
12:01 pm

And @@, the government invented the Internet. How many jobs has that created?

The government built the interstate highway system. How many jobs did that create?

Back in the 1830s, state government in Georgia funded the Western and Atlantic Railroad, which in turn created Atlanta. How many jobs has that created?

Most of the nation’s current railroad system was built thanks to government subsidies. How many jobs has that created? Georgia Power is using billions in gov’t loan guarantees to build two nuclear reactors at Plant Vogtle. How many jobs is that creating? The entire nuclear power industry owes its existence to government research and funding. How many jobs has that created?

The list goes on and on. Go to nations without an effective government: How many businesses do you find there? How much prosperity do you find there?

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
12:01 pm

Not to split too fine a hair here, but do 50% of the people in the US even have an income?

Question Time

July 27th, 2010
12:01 pm

Jau, I’ve asked your compatriot Cynthia this question before and she never seems to be able to get around to answering it, so I’ll ask you. Given all of your knowledge of the world and economics, and throwing all political desires out, what percentage of your income should the federal government be allowed to confiscate and use for government defense, administration, and redistribution?

At last report, 48% of American taxpayers paid NO federal income tax, and bottom HALF pay less than 3% of all taxes. The top 1% (the group you are obviously so envious of) pays over 40% of all income tax collections.

Why don’t we just make the income tax 99% – that will cure you wealth envy as well as solve the budget problem. Whatta say, Jay??

obama's fault

July 27th, 2010
12:03 pm

Jay, Sorry….47%….my bad….. From the AP on April 7th, 2010.

“WASHINGTON (AP) — Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it’s simply somebody else’s problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That’s according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.”

And still not a word about even 47% of the people paying no taxes. Great job Jay. Way to show some sort of objectivity on it.

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
12:04 pm

Scouts got the rich man`s back. You go girl!

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
12:05 pm

Scout: “The more rich the better (and I am not one) because that means a lot of money and jobs are floating around.”

Truth be told…during the last administration the rolls of rich and poor both increased. Those that climbed the ladder and fell off the ladder both came from the middle class…yet WAY more fell off the ladder. Please tell me how “the more rich the better” added to our economy by 2008.

Know what “fuels” a rocking economy? A STRONG middle class. Those who are not afraid to spend…who feel confident about the jobs they have (or getting a new one)… That “wealth” created was phony… all it did was create a whole class of society living in homes they could not afford.

Look back to 1960 or so and beyond…every time we had a GREAT economy..it was when the middle class was doing well. Creating more “rich” through “tax cuts” has never created lasting jobs… in fact…it’s only lost more jobs when banks had to tighten their belts.

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
12:06 pm

“And still not a word about even 47% of the people paying no taxes”

I would say the best way to fix that is to ensure they can earn enough money to be ABLE to pay taxes.

But, mind you, if it was in MY power to do it, I would elimate ALL taxes except for a retail sales tax based on how much is on the bottom of the cash register receipt.

My attitude is that no matter WHO you tax, ultimately it is the retail buyer who payes those taxes.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:06 pm

“Know what “fuels” a rocking economy? A STRONG middle class.”

not to mention a STABLE SOCIETY

StJ

July 27th, 2010
12:07 pm

I think you put the LSD (or whatever your substance of choice) in there on your own.

Del

July 27th, 2010
12:08 pm

“Or did somebody slip LSD into my coffee this morning?”

Nah, just Kool Aid, you need to quit drinking it for it’s effect to wear off.

Bosch

July 27th, 2010
12:08 pm

Rabbit holes and LSD can be fun though — if you hang out with the right kind of rabbits.

And gosh darn you USinUK, you beat me to to the “if the graphs start a talking” bit to Jay.

And if the rabbits start talking to you too, that can be trouble.

Nevermind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kamchak (and Matti and Scout) — saw the condolences below and thank you.

But Kamchak, one of the comforts I have is that my mom watch some World Cup games with my boys and you should hear the stories they told of watching the games with her. She’d say things like “Did that young man just kick that other young man? That wasn’t nice – Oh, that young man who kicked the other is on our team? Well, I’m sure he didn’t mean to” and “Oh my, that young man is cute — oh what’s that? He’s not on the team we are for? Ok then, he’s not cute at all.” She wasn’t a vuvuzela fan either.

obama's fault

July 27th, 2010
12:09 pm

Doggone, Sounds like you are talking about a flat tax pretty much, and I agree 100%. Eliminate the income tax and just have a consumption tax. It hits everybody that way. Just think about how much easier it would be. No more April 15th, no more hiding behind tax breaks, no more IRS having to perform useless audits…..it would be wonderful..

Bosch

July 27th, 2010
12:10 pm

RW,

“but do 50% of the people in the US even have an income?”

I think it’s more like they have an income, but they make so little they don’t pay taxes — but what do I know – I’m talking to rabbits.

Allen

July 27th, 2010
12:11 pm

What is fair about someone who makes $2M/year paying $700k in taxes while a person making $50K/yr pays $5k in taxes? Nothing at all. That’s why we need a flat tax. Considering the top 5% of earners pay >90% of national “income” taxes, what gripe do the lower 90% (which I’m in) have about how much someone else is paying? That is my biggest complaint about Dem ideology, they want welfare programs for all levels of income b/c they are “compassionate”, yet they DO NOT want to pay for these said programs themselves.

Outhouse GoKart

July 27th, 2010
12:12 pm

Jay, just dont eat the brown acid and you will be fine.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:12 pm

Bosch – 12:08 – your mom should have been doing color commentary for the BBC – it would have at least lessened the pain of watching the dismal England team!

one of the best things about my mom’s wake was us “kids” sitting around telling stories with her friends – we laughed, ohmygod, we laughed. THAT’S what you want to think about – the good times

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
12:12 pm

OF: “About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability”

There…THAT explains WHY… sad that more were “downgraded” into no jobs or less paying jobs and added to our poverty level because of past failed policies. THAT DOES explain your post.

Yet YOU said…they pay NO FEDERAL income taxes… those same “newly poor” added to the roles of our poverty class still often pay state taxes…property taxes… sales tax… all the very things that “religious institutions” are exempt from…

Wanna fix a HUGE part of our economy? Tax the very highly profitable religious institutions worth millions… they’re BUSINESSES…. they TAKE in MONEY…they have EMPLOYEES that work for them… yet it’s ALL tax free. Go figure.

Bosch

July 27th, 2010
12:13 pm

“yet they DO NOT want to pay for these said programs themselves.”

Assume wrong much?

AmVet

July 27th, 2010
12:14 pm

The right wing comments so far are so discouraging as to make me wish for some LSD!

Three decades of an ever strengthening plutocracy and they act oblivious. Three decades of rampant and devastating corporate crime and they pretend none of it exists. The attempted corporate destruction of capitalism that culminated in the still-present paroxysms of Sept 2008 and they act as if it were all much ado about nothing.

Business as usual. CEO pay goes up 250% while worker pay goes up 4%. This is to their idiotic Randian minds, quite normal and proper.

Is it truly possible that the rank and file Republican is really that stupid?

I think not. In the deepest recesses of their arguably limited brainpower, even they know what is happening and why. Even they can see who are the real criminals.

BUT, their overriding hatred of all things liberal is even stronger than any slight intellectual honesty they might have. Whether it is in the areas of science, economics, foreign policy or technological progress.
They are to a lockstep apparatchik, spendthrifts, income redistributionists, corporate welfare enablers, war machine bloaters and fiscal liberals And completely irresponsible.

And there is that little matter of lacking any moral courage to speak out against it.

It must be really dark up there.

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
12:14 pm

“Doggone, Sounds like you are talking about a flat tax pretty much, and I agree 100%”

No, not a flat tax. A “flat” tax is inherently unfair as it weighs more heavily on those lower on the economic scale. I would institute a progressive sales tax. Within “spending bands” the more you pay at the time, the higher the tax rate.

Jay

July 27th, 2010
12:14 pm

I’ll be glad to help you out, Question. Since the mid-’50s, federal taxes have accounted for somewhere between 17 and 20 percent of GDP (the peak was 44 percent during WWII). This year, it’s predicted to fall to 14.8 percent, thanks to tax cuts in the stimulus package and the fact that people have fallen out of the upper brackets, among other reasons.

I think that once the economy stabilizes, we can safely nudge that number up to 21 or even 22 percent for a few years until we get this budget deficit under control, then begin to bring it back down into its historic range below 20 percent.

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/historicals/ Table 1.2

finn mccool

July 27th, 2010
12:14 pm

Johnny reb, so it doesn’t compute for you that success and longevity of a nation/state are sopmehow connected?

Doggone hits the nail on the head. The middle class is so squeezed we were relying on credit cards to help us get by but now we aren’t using the cards so we aren’t buying except for necessities – gasoline, etc. The capitalists haven’t found a new source of consumers and they won’t until some of the profits swing back to the middle class. I can wait it out…

Ok, time to board. Have fun and keep those rich thieves in line!

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:15 pm

“yet they DO NOT want to pay for these said programs themselves”

just so I understand … you’re proposing that we tax the people who live below the poverty level and who are receiving benefits?

Where's My Party?

July 27th, 2010
12:15 pm

“and massive tax breaks for the wealthy”…….SQUIRREL!!!!!!

stands for decibels

July 27th, 2010
12:15 pm

Imagine for a moment that Harry Reid had a spine transplant, and the Senate passed through simple majority vote (using Biden as the tie-breaker if necessary) to eliminate the filibuster, holds and suchlike.

ok, I can’t imagine that either. Never mind.

obama's fault

July 27th, 2010
12:16 pm

US in UK, ““Know what “fuels” a rocking economy? A STRONG middle class.”

Yes, it does….So why does Obama hate the middle class so much that he is allowing Bush tax cuts for them to expire? Why does he hate the middle class so much that he is going to kill it by making everybody pay more for things with his wasteful spending?

JohnnyReb

July 27th, 2010
12:16 pm

Finn and USinUK – you guys remind me of the liberal elite who thinks they know best and a simple grammatical error means someone is dumb. Focus on and defend the issue. The point of my post was the Dems have no solutions for ALL the people. The only thing they know is Robin Hood. Give me one Democrat solution that does not punish achievers?

Joe

July 27th, 2010
12:16 pm

Bookman: “Do I have that right? Or did somebody slip LSD into my coffee this morning? (Please, let it be the LSD. At least that will wear off eventually.)

The answer to the first question is yes. I can’t speak to the second question.

In truth, conservatives (so-called) don’t believe in smaller government, free markets, or lower taxes. They believe in smaller government where government benefits the poor and bigger government where it benefits the rich (e.g., nuclear subsidies, agricultural subsidies, subsidies for big oil, military industrial complex, prison industrial complex). Conservatives seek lower taxes where taxes are imposed on big business and the wealthiest among us (e.g., eliminating inheritance, dividend, capital gains and corporate income taxes) and raising taxes on the poor and middle class (e.g., regressive forms of taxation such as the FairTax proposal or VAT proposal in Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap”). And conservatives oppose free markets when they oppose enforcing anti-trust laws, common sense regulations to enforce fair competition and transparency, and imposing the cost of externalities on the parties involved in a business transaction.

The agenda of so-called conservatives is clear. Eliminate taxes for big business and the wealthiest among us while decimating protections for consumers, workers, the environment, and yes, investors.

LSD or not, Bookman has it exactly right.

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
12:16 pm

FLAT TAXERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

PLEASE one of you…feel free to “school me” and explain how a flat tax will create jobs in THIS economy. Big Business have to pay the SAME flat tax? Or do only individuals (you know…based off the Supreme Court Decision that basically gave corporations “personhood”)…

Kamchak

July 27th, 2010
12:19 pm

Bosch

My mom had joint replacement surgery during the WC and went to a physical therapy center and we also watched some of the WC matches while she was there. I also heard similar comments.

joe

July 27th, 2010
12:19 pm

If you make $30k per year and it is not enough, you do what you need to do to get yourself qualified for a job that pays more. It is called being self reliant. The sooner more people realize the govt isn’t going to help you, the better off you’ll be. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Peter

July 27th, 2010
12:19 pm

Hit the nail on the head today……and NO to the LSD…….. Just came out today…Harley Davidson, made great profits as they cut employees……. and they expect to cut a few thousand more.

Corporations are not hiring…..they are firing now…….. and the Bush tax cuts have zero to do with it.

Corporations are making more profits, and the labor folks are working harder and longer than ever before…..why ?

SO they don’t get fired !

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:19 pm

“The point of my post was the Dems have no solutions for ALL the people. The only thing they know is Robin Hood. Give me one Democrat solution that does not punish achievers?”

you do realize that a fair number of the “achievers” (particularly in the investment banks) were the ones who got us into the pickle in which we currently find ourselves, don’t you.

and for you and obama’s fault – a quarter of a million dollars is NOT “middle class”

TaxPayer

July 27th, 2010
12:19 pm

Those darned unemployed! When are they going to start paying their fair share of the income taxes. And poor people! What is wrong with the poor people in the US. Why don’t they pay taxes. Why do the rich have to pick up the tab for those worthless poor people. Why can’t charities take care of them. Give the rich a decent tax cut and watch our economy grow. The trickle down will be so powerful, folks will be washed away by it. But we cannot get there until the rich pay less and the poor give more. Everyone knows that.

Bosch

July 27th, 2010
12:20 pm

USinUK,

Oh, my mom would have been FABULOUS at that.

I hate to say this, but I used to dread my mom coming to my kids’ soccer games because she would sit there and ask questions and then start talking about random things like “is that a bluebird in that tree over there? Well, I do believe it is — did you know that bluebirds…..blah, blah” and I would have to do the whole “MOTHER! The game, focus” and it would drive me crazy. But I do remember once her saying, “If that guy kicks my grandson again like that, I will lose my manners.”

Doggone/GA

July 27th, 2010
12:20 pm

“What is fair about someone who makes $2M/year paying $700k in taxes while a person making $50K/yr pays $5k in taxes? Nothing at all”

It is inherently UNFAIR. Look at it this way: which is less fair: someone who makes $15,000 a year only having $10,500 after taxes (rounded to 30%) or someone who makes $700,000 “only” having $490,000? (rounded to 30%)

There’s a HUGE difference in the impact of a flat tax on those low on the economic scale, and those higher up the scale.

USinUK

July 27th, 2010
12:20 pm

and with that … I’m off to catch the 5:45 … have a good night!

Jefferson

July 27th, 2010
12:20 pm

Ability to pay is the system. Always been like that, greed was not so much when income taxes 1st started.

Peter

July 27th, 2010
12:20 pm

Hey Joe…… you got it correct !

stands for decibels

July 27th, 2010
12:21 pm

Give me one Democrat solution that does not punish achievers?

Given that your side idiotically equates rational tax rates and corporate accountability with “punishing achievers,” sorry. I can’t.

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
12:21 pm

I think it’s more like they have an income, but they make so little they don’t pay taxes

Bosch,

The hair, or hare for those of you talking to rabbits, I’m splitting is that the original statement referred to “people” not “working people” and I shouldn’t have muddied the water with my snark because it’s a valid point Sinkwich is making.

bleary

July 27th, 2010
12:22 pm

Go ahead and let the tax cuts expire. I don’t hear anyone suggest that the tax cuts created lots of jobs and lots of growth while G.W. Bush was President. He cut taxes on incomes, dividends and estates. When he left office unemployment was higher, the deficit was higher, and we had a financial system meltdown. What good did the tax cuts do?

Outhouse GoKart

July 27th, 2010
12:23 pm

And all you burger-flippers, waitstaff, convenience store clerks, pine straw placement engineers, sandwich construction superintendents, babysitters, CSRs wakeup. These are “starter” jobs and you will never make the $50K you feel you deserve. Stop smoking the pot and get movtivated. The pot will still be there later.

“I was gonna get a job
but then I got high”

Bosch

July 27th, 2010
12:24 pm

RW,

Well then, maybe I should stop talking to rabbits and go back and read what Sinkwich wrote, huh?

ATF

July 27th, 2010
12:24 pm

Ahhhh. Jay. Bless your heart.

There you go again confusing folks with facts and logic.

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
12:25 pm

JohnnyReb: “liberal elite”

Please friend! Get with the times! Just yesterday I was told how we’re now all “progressives” and NOT “liberals” or “elites” any longer. Well that… and according to my new “friend” here on jay’s blog “Fred”…we democrats are to be identified as: ” old depends wearing wind bags”…. I still think that has a catchy ring to it! ;)

Outhouse GoKart

July 27th, 2010
12:25 pm

Sounds like a room of bratty little 4 years olds or a convention of HildaBeast fans…

“Mommy, its not fair…waaahhhh…wwwahhhhh, Mommy, but mommy…waahh!!!”

Jay

July 27th, 2010
12:25 pm

Obama’s Fault, here’s how the TPC arrives at that number:

“The consequence of turning the tax code into a tool for social policy is that we now have a record 52 million filers off the income tax rolls. This means 36 percent of all so-called taxpayers actually pay zero in income taxes after taking their credits and deductions. But these figures don’t include some 15 million people who work but don’t earn enough to file a tax return. When these people are added to the non-payers, estimates the Tax Policy Center, the percentage of households who don’t pay income taxes rises to 47 percent.”

Those who don’t earn enough to file a tax return earn less than $5,400 a year. In other words, most of them are just high school or college kids with parttime jobs, but in order to gin up its numbers, the TPC pretends those people are “households.”

Right. Try to maintain a household on less than $5,400 a year. Like I said, it’s a lie.

JohnnyReb

July 27th, 2010
12:25 pm

USinUK – again, you post no solution, just complaint of those evil bankers. The Dems and Obama are not wizards, they can’t roll back history. They can’t produce a solution either just as you can’t find one credible thing they have put forward that does not punish one while helping another.

Swami Dave

July 27th, 2010
12:25 pm

“Meanwhile, the Republican Party defends massive tax breaks for the wealthy while blocking aid to the unemployed, fights bitterly against regulations designed to prevent a repeat of the Wall Street meltdown, blocks legislation that would at least require corporate and special interests to identify themselves when they invest in elections and does all that while proclaiming itself to be the party of the little people.”

Well, tax breaks should go to those who pay taxes in proportion to what they pay. When the “top 5%” are the ones who pay the lions share, then the benefits of tax relief would go to them. Otherwise, it is called theft that confiscates that which is earned to fund benefits and transfer payments to those who don’t.

As for unemployment benefits, perpetual extension is asinine when both the country and individuals would be better off with those receiving the benefits actually working instead of living off the confiscated earnings of others. In the same vein, the money that keeps getting “extended” to these benefits would be much better targeted to promoting economic / business growth among America’s employers (small & medium sized businesses – those “evil top 5%’ers”).

So long as the “financial reform” did nothing to address the entities that were at the crux of the financial meltdown (Freddie & Fannie) and perpetuated the continued cover offered to those entities by Congressional Democrats, it deserved opposition. REAL financial reform should have taken the form would have reinstituted historical underwriting guidelines and taken action to get the current glut of unproductive assets back to profitable use.

So long as Democrats decide to exempt some entities like the NRA & Union from the campaign finance “reform”, there is no reason to support it. A REAL reform would be to require publication of all contributions from all parties within seven days with no limits whatsoever. In that fashion, the American people would know who the political prostitutes are and whom their johns happen to be! However, so long as we tax corporate entities, it should be no surprise that those entities act to promote legislation and regulation in their best interests & those of their shareholders.

Bottom line, Jay – PrezBO and his merry band of Congressional collectivists deserve every measure of the opposition that they face. At the point that they quit confiscating what America’s producers and achievers earn & stop trying to equalize outcomes that result from non-equal effort, then they will have earned support. Until that time, their agenda must be defeated.

Truth, History, and Common Sense Refute Liberalism; Freedom works every time it is tried – It works when you do!

-SD

Saul Good

July 27th, 2010
12:26 pm

bleary: “What good did the tax cuts do?”

It made his friends richer… you know…the very one’s who never “hired” anyone and kept those savings to themselves.

NICE!

booger

July 27th, 2010
12:26 pm

Jay,

When did repubs.claim to be the party of the little people. Maybe the party of productive people, or the party of jobs rather than handouts……..but never party of the little people.

joe

July 27th, 2010
12:27 pm

Joe with a capital J is an elitist lets turn our country into France blame everyone but myself let our biggest federal government ever raise my kids, give me entitlements, housing, healthcare and a federal job and make every decision for me because I’m not smart enough to succeed in our capitalist system whiner. Simple as that. Get a life by making one for you and teach your brethren to do the same, not stand on the highway off ramp with your hand held out waiting for those with initiative and self reliance to give me some money…or at least raise taxes for the same result.

Jefferson

July 27th, 2010
12:27 pm

OGK, just look down on those “starter jobs”, some of those folks do hard honest work and deserve a fair wage. Your attitude is showing.

TaxPayer

July 27th, 2010
12:28 pm

How come there are so many older people working those “starter” jobs.

RW-(the original)

July 27th, 2010
12:28 pm

Bosch,

No point in your reading it because your only response would be whatever talking point the left is spreading and there’s much more entertainment value in talking to rabbits. Gotta run, but sorry to hear about your Mom. Stay strong and help the rest of the family through, you never know who might look to be coping the best but really need the most help.

Later Y’all

booger

July 27th, 2010
12:28 pm

Jay,

You failed to point out that many of those who do not pay taxes also recieve a welfare payment.