When secession talk is in the air, the nation has lost its bearings
Zach Wamp, an eight-term Republican congressman from Chattanooga, is leaving the federal government behind to run for governor of Tennessee.
Last week, Wamp suggested that he might not be alone, that the entire state of Tennessee might leave the federal government.
Rep. Zach Wamp (R-03) suggested TN and other states may have to consider seceding from the union if the federal government does not change its ways regarding mandates.
“I hope that the American people will go to the ballot box in 2010 and 2012 so that states are not forced to consider separation from this government,” said Wamp during an interview with Hotline OnCall.
He lauded Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX), who first floated the idea of secession in April ‘09, for leading the push-back against health care reform, adding that he hopes the American people “will send people to Washington that will, in 2010 and 2012, strictly adhere” to the Constitution’s defined role for the federal government.
“Patriots like Rick Perry have talked about these issues because the federal government is putting us in an untenable position at the state level,” said Wamp, who is competing with Knoxville Mayor Bill Haslam (R) and LG Ron Ramsey (R) for the GOP nod in the race to replace TN Gov. Phil Bredesen (D).”
Over the weekend, Wamp backed away from that suggestion, saying that if elected governor, he would take secession off the table. While that might be cause for relief, it’s a sign of very strange times that such remarks would even by uttered by legitimate candidates for major office.
But before you start dismissing those folks up in Tennessee as a little tetched in the head, let’s remember that the Georgia Senate last year passed a resolution also endorsing secession as an option, but in much more explicit detail.
Among many other things, SR 632 stated that under the Constitution, the only crimes the federal government could prosecute were treason, piracy and slavery. “Therefore, all acts of Congress which assume to create, define or punish [other] crimes … are altogether void, and of no force,” the resolution declared.
SR 632 also warned that if Congress, the president or federal courts take any action that exceeds their constitutional powers, the Constitution is automatically rendered null and void and the United States of America is officially disbanded.
The Senate approved the resolution 43-1, largely because few people knew what it contained. However, it was sponsored by most of the GOP leadership in the Senate, who presumably were more familiar with its contents. And rather than take the side of sanity, every Republican in the race for governor at the time, including Karen Handel, endorsed the resolution’s message. (Nathan Deal, still in Congress at the time, was not yet an announced candidate and to my knowledge has not taken a position.)
It might be interesting, and revealing, to get Handel and Deal on record again before the Aug. 10 runoff. By asking the question, we’d get an answer to a more important question:
Which of the two is more willing to pander to the crazies?
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349 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
July 26th, 2010
1:51 pm
My point is, we didn’t have elected Democrats who felt compelled to woo those so disaffected by Bush
sfb,
I know you’re zeroing in on secession, but you can’t possibly believe what you just said to TGT. Leveraging “disaffected by Bush” voters was the entire Democrat message in both 2006 and 2008. Hopeandchange dontchaknow.
Outhouse GoKart
July 26th, 2010
1:51 pm
Dont worry libs…the Southern States will not abandoned you to The DC DicTater and his bankrupting ways. We still love ya, sorta.
RW-(the original)
July 26th, 2010
1:54 pm
Exile Island and a new thread upstairs.
What a twofer
Del
July 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
The real issue is our federal governments over reaching incompetency. The comments being heard from various politicians in state government is the voice of protest. This will come to a head at some time and in some way. I hope it’s in a positive way for the Republic.
josef nix
July 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
DDR
The point on Texas today, probably in agreement with you, but you said they tried it once, they did and had some considerable success in how that turned out…
And I knew that use of the term cultural genocide would get a response from the semi-literate Engrish speakers…the modification is the term CULTURAL I did NOT use the term BLOOD genocide. It is the same thing that was at work during Jim Crow when the Bourbons set out to erase the African identity. It is the same thing as when the Federal government adopted the Dawes program to force assimilation on the American Indians…
Intown
July 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
It’s easy to talk stupid political rhetoric like threatening secession. It’s quite another to back it up with bodies and bullets. I seriously doubt any sane person in this nation is willing to take up arms to repeal health care reform, or 234 years of federal legislation.
Brigadier General Lachlan McIntosh
July 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
I would have liked to have seen Jay Bookman call Button Gwinnett a “crazy”.
Sorry, I already shot and killed that whiny-ass teaty baby.
stands for decibels
July 26th, 2010
1:58 pm
Leveraging “disaffected by Bush” voters was the entire Democrat message in both 2006 and 2008. Hopeandchange dontchaknow.
think you missed my “so” in there. those SO disaffected, i.e., so much so that Democrats were calling for secession, or at least actively seeking those doing so, as well.
heading upstairs.
Ray B
July 26th, 2010
2:01 pm
We (the states) entered into this “union” voluntarily. It was designed, from the beginning, to give majority rights to the states and to ensure a LIMITED Federal Government. The states have the right, and in fact the obligation, to hold the Federal givernment in check…when they cannot, they DO have the right to seceed. A tyranical president (Lincoln) overstepped his authority and forced union upon an unwilling people. Those who have stood against, and continue to stand against, that unlawful government are not “crazies” Jay….we are patriots of the highest order who refuse to follow the party line like lambs to the slaughter.
Outhouse GoKart
July 26th, 2010
2:01 pm
NEWS ALERT!!
President Obama is expected to announce his coming nuptuals with actress, comedian Whoopi Goldberg this week on The Vent. When asked for comment SC Senatorial Candidate Alvin Greene stated, “I hope to be best man at the ceremony but until then I will eating some cheetos for our President”. Ms Goldberg was overheard stating “I know I made fun of the Bush when he was in but Barry gonna get some Bush like he neva had plus I will be first Beeeatch!! Y’all all can kiss my ass!”
Sources tell us Ms Obama is devastated at the news and has cut holes in all the Presidents underpants. When reached for comment Ms Obama stated “Ive never liked that Whoopi and her head full of worms. She is a black Medusa and has entranced my poor Barry.”
Normal
July 26th, 2010
2:02 pm
and we just can’t keep Normal out of the trees..
Dusty,
Just tracing evolution back to its beginning…
RW-(the original)
July 26th, 2010
2:03 pm
think you missed my “so” in there
Yep, that’s probably why I started my comment with…”I know you’re zeroing in on secession,”
josef nix
July 26th, 2010
2:12 pm
“Just tracing evolution back to its beginning…”
Daddy Jay promised us some evolution…
Palouse Guy
July 26th, 2010
2:13 pm
There has been much talk about secession on this thread, but little about the viability of the New South as a country. It would appear that the new country wouldn’t be viable without continuation of massive handouts from the Blue States.
Tax Foundation 2005
Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
for 2005 (last year available)
South plus OK, AZ, WV, Kentucky, AK
-$166,016,000,000 [received $166B more from federal govt. than paid in taxes]
All other states (plus DC)
+$40,169,000,000 [paid $40B more in taxes more than received back from federal govt.]
Blue States of CA, CT, IL, NY, OR, MA, MI, MN, NJ, WA,
+$205,863,000,000 [paid $206B more in taxes more than received back from federal govt.]
DebbieDoRight Esq.
July 26th, 2010
2:14 pm
josef – Plessy v. Ferguson was after the Civil War and the 14th Ammendment was enacted….not before or during.
booger – we buy most of our oil from the east, hence the reason we fought the Saudi/Kuwait War. If we were so concerned over Human Rights and tyrants, etc., etc., etc., we would’ve invaded any part of Africa a long time ago……..
Dusty: I love you too.
Outhouse GoKart
July 26th, 2010
2:17 pm
Its too hot to fight a war in africa. Plus that hell hole will never resolve its issues.
josef nix
July 26th, 2010
2:23 pm
DDR
I’m aware of that. The point I was making is that the Freedman was cheerfully sold down the river by their “liberators” when it became politically expedient to do so. Simply put, the African American has been a pawn in the game since the get-go and when I hear white Northerners and Westerners waxing ever so eloquent on the damnable white Southerner, it rings hypocritical. See, I belong to the 40 acres and a mule party and it’s no more popular today than it was at its inception.
lovelyliz
July 26th, 2010
2:25 pm
Another thing I find interesting is how many negative tax states (the feds give them more than they pay in taxes) and those really close to such want to succeed
josef nix
July 26th, 2010
2:28 pm
Just doing my EOI duties, but any of those areas where secessionist sentiments have gained currency are viable…there would be a rapid and drastic drop in material quality of life and potential civil unrest and those two factors alone make the whole argument in favor rather specious…
DebbieDoRight Esq.
July 26th, 2010
2:28 pm
josef – OK I understand.
OGK –
Desperado
July 26th, 2010
2:47 pm
Saul Good
July 26th, 2010
12:01 pm
Hey, just my point. You and others keep screaming Haliburton and such. It was a non competition thing and a non regulation thing that created this mess. There were no companies that could outbid haliburton and supply what they could. That is a fact. However the overcharging thing was a crime and they should be punished for it.
Desperado
July 26th, 2010
2:54 pm
Palouse Guy
July 26th, 2010
2:13 pm
Just like a liberal. Always putting things worth by how much tax they pay or can pay. You have to make 250k a year to live in NY city. Most of that goes to taxes. What I see is we get more bang for the buck. You guys will be rioting in the streets when you lose your vacation time.
ODDOWL
July 26th, 2010
3:01 pm
The Republicans have become a serious problem in America… If the voters had enough intelligence to vote the stupid Republicans out of office, we could get rid of this problem. This is not rocket science. You need not be Imhotep to figure it out. Its very simple. Get rid of the Republicans, get rid of the problem.
Palouse Guy
July 26th, 2010
3:04 pm
Well, Bill at 1142 hrs (11:42 A.M.) said of secession:
the South “wouldn’t be broke” or have to pay for the liberal ideas in CA, NY or MI. He also said “we will also keep out the freeloaders that want to live off of our money.
When can I vote on this?”
Well, Bill, the South WOULD be broke without the Blue States’ money (or the South would have to turn off the A/C, sell the car and go back to horse and buggy. Where is the South’s money?
No part of the US has been living above its means more than has the South, whose only real competition in this comes from the northern Red States of ID, WY, AK, the Dakotas, NE, KS, plus Blue States MD and HI (but MD and HI know that it’s good to be on the dole, and don’t want out of the USA). Even the taxpayers of hard-pressed Michigan have been paying much more than they get back. Can South Carolina et al. say “Thank You”?
Fred
July 26th, 2010
3:30 pm
Dear DebbieDoRight Esq:
You are good at writing words, but you don’t really understand concepts do you? I refer specifically to one of your posts on Texas. Texas whipped Mexico’s ass once, and they would do it again. Ever hear of a little group called the National Guard? Texas has a BIG National Guard and it contains these here things called “modern weapons.” Modern weapons include things like tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, artillery (big guns to you) and even those there modern do-dads called aeroplanes. Why those there modern aeroplanes are enough to hold any Army, excepting the US Army at bay, ESPECIALLY the Mexican military, that doesn’t HAVE modern tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and aeroplanes.
Texas also contains this black ugly stuff called OIL. Lot’s and lot’s of OIL. It’s almost like money. Folks poop on themselves to get it. Texas also houses companies that deal in some of this stuff called “teknology.’ Ever hear of Texas Instruments? Guess where IT is located? Texas has these big heavy poop machines that some folks call cattle. They have LOTS of cattle. They have farms that grow this stuff called vegetables and hay, lots of it. SO they have military strength, food, and plenty of tradable commodities.
In short, Texas is quite self sufficient. The only Country they would have to fear is the one they currently are a part of. I doubt however that the US Gov’t would take to kindly to Texas seceding though so it’s a moot issue. But however, if one day Texas WERE able to wave a magic wand and become their own Country, it would be MEXICO who would need to step lightly, not Texas.
Fred
July 26th, 2010
3:32 pm
Desperado
July 26th, 2010
2:47 pm
Saul Good
July 26th, 2010
12:01 pm
Hey, just my point. You and others keep screaming Haliburton and such.
Why is Saul Good STILL complaining about President Clintons non bid contracts with Haliburton in Bosnia? That was 2 Presidents and three terms ago. I’m sure in hindsight that President Clinton wishes he had let bids out…………..
desperado
July 26th, 2010
3:39 pm
I aint goin nowhere! I paid my taxes. But I am all for bitchslapping liberals. Can we make that part of “Pledge to Flag”! Them yankees have packed themselves so tight up north they are still coming south. They bring with them tales of homosexuality, atheism, and human rights. Non of these found in the constitution. Judges made most of their laws. I dont see no need to secede but praying for a 9.2 quake in certain northern regions would not break my southern heart. I kinda liked parts of the movie 2012. It gave me dreams of how to deal with “law making judges” sympathizers. Now they want to erect a muslim cathedral near where the muslims bombed those poor nonsuspecting yankees. Killed almost three thousand. Now they are showing how forgiving they are by allowing these same folks a gathering place to worship and plot their next adventure. It is ok with me as long as it stays upnorth.
DebbieDoRight Esq.
July 26th, 2010
4:31 pm
Fred: Ummmmm…….hmmmm……..eeehhhhhhhh…………..I honestly don’t know what to say to you. The planes/military equipment that Texas has is leased from the Feds. They seceede they’d have to give them back, only fair. Texas Instruments? You mean the calculator people? Are they bigger or small than say IBM or McIntosh or heck even Microsoft? And did you say oil? The US gets the majority of their oil from the Middle East. Heck, even THIRD graders know that!!
But all those are non-issues, ’cause Texas can seceede any time they want!! Heck, I’d do up the paperwork for them if they asked! I’m friendly that way!!
ODDOWL
July 26th, 2010
4:53 pm
The Republicans party of “NO” who are prolonging the Bush/Cheney recession with their opposition to all the Democrats legislation and brilliant ideas. Now the Republicans are whining about the stimulus bill signs that appear at work sites. But it is amazing that these Republican whiners don’t see the workers hard at work behind the stimulus signs. They never mention the workers. Republicans suffer from selective amnesia. Those workers are working on jobs created by the Obama Democrat stimulus bill. The Obama economic miracle has created more than 3 million jobs in 19 months. The Bush/Cheney Regime created 3 million jobs in 8 years. Democrats should rescind the Bush/Cheney 3 TRILLION DOLLARS tax cuts for the richest 5% of the population NOW.
Fred
July 26th, 2010
4:54 pm
Texas instrument s does SO much more than calculators. Do some research, apparently the results will shock the pants off you. They are larger than IBM, probably larger than Apple, and only Walmart is bigger than Gates, I mean Micro Soft lol. (I just checked, looks like Apple is higher on the fortune 500 than TI) As far as leased equipment? I doubt if they seceded they would just give it back, don’t you?
We import our oil because they they capped their wells. It’s still there. I’ve heard “conspiracy theories” that we keep our wells capped so that when we suck the world dry, we’ll still have ours. It seems a little far fetched, but the truth be told, there is still a LOT of oil in Texas and Oklahoma under capped oil wells.
I’m with you though on helping them with the paperwork. New Yorkers are the only group more arrogant than Texans …………….. but it’s a close race…….
Saul Good
July 26th, 2010
4:54 pm
Texas whipped Mexico’s ass??? Just that state? Thanks for re-writing history. let me know where I can buy that book.
Fred
July 26th, 2010
5:12 pm
Are you REALLY that stupid Saul? how do you think Texas became a Republic before they joined the United States?
The Battle of the Alamo (February 23 – March 6, 1836) was a pivotal event in the Texas Revolution. Following a 13-day siege, Mexican troops under President General Antonio López de Santa Anna launched an assault on the Alamo Mission near San Antonio de Béxar (modern-day San Antonio, Texas). All but two of the Texan defenders were killed. Santa Anna’s perceived cruelty during the battle inspired many Texans—both Texas settlers and adventurers from the United States—to join the Texan Army. Buoyed by a desire for revenge, the Texans defeated the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto, on April 21, 1836, ending the revolution.
You can buy the book in ANY bookstore. Or check one out of a library. Just damn. I liked it better when I just THOUGHT you were mindless, you erased all doubt with that last post……….
Saul Good
July 26th, 2010
5:25 pm
Fred…are YOU that stupid??? let me ask…those “texans” fighting that battle… just what “country” did they belong to? The MAJORITY of the troops in many battles were AMERICANS.
Davey Crockett was a “Texan” right??? (By way of TN I guess)….
“The entire siege lasted 13 days. Tuesday February 23 – Sunday March 6, 1836. The siege and final battle of the Alamo in 1836 constitute the most celebrated military engagement in Texas history. The battle was conspicuous for the large number of illustrious personalities among its combatants. These included Tennessee congressman David Crockett, entrepreneur-adventurer James Bowie”
To understand the real battle, one must appreciate its strategic context in the Texas Revolution. In December 1835 a Federalist army of Texan (or Texian, as they were called) immigrants, American volunteers, and their Tejano allies had captured the town from a Centralist force during the siege of Bexar.
Most Texan settlers had returned to the comforts of home and hearth. Consequently, newly arrived American volunteers-some of whom counted their time in Texas by the week-constituted a majority of the troops at Goliad and Bexar. Both Neill and Fannin determined to stall the Centralists on the frontier. Still, they labored under no delusions. Without speedy reinforcements, neither the Alamo nor Presidio La Bahía could long withstand a siege.
Fred
July 26th, 2010
5:33 pm
Individuals serving in an Army (usually referred to as MERCENARIES) make no difference. The United States did not enter that war. By your own twisted logic, there were no “Americans’ in the American Revolution becasue there was no COuntry called America, or The United States.
Please stop. This is embarrassing. I feel like I’m slapping an old person with limited faculties left. You haven’t been correct yet in the last two threads. half truth, after bold faced lie, after fabrication…… You wouldn’t know the truth if it came up and kicked you square in your depends.
Saul Good
July 26th, 2010
5:53 pm
By your own twisted logic, there were no “Americans’ in the American Revolution becasue there was no COuntry called America, or The United States.
That’s right Fred…they were called “Colonists”….sorry you never paid attention in history class and are trying to make up for it by doing rapid google searches. So I guess that those “texans” are the same as the colonists were. There was no “State” of texas yet which was part of the USA…So they were basically one and the same as our Colonists during the Revolutionary War… yet what IS true is that our own US Citizens and even Politicians helped found the war and fight the war of Texas.
Sorry you have trouble comprehending these things… but from one who gets much of their information and misrepresentations from Fox and similar right wing propaganda machines… it’s easy to see why you get led astray so easily when it comes to both comprehension and logic.
Oh and like you lash out about the French…you do the same with New Yorkers as well. Truth be told….it’s always those like you have have never BEEN to NY or France which have such well informed opinions about the people and cultures of those areas.
Mark
July 26th, 2010
8:42 pm
I’m all for considering secession. I have no desire to live with the effects of the disastrous federal policies supported by voters in the blue states. Why refer to those who would consider secession as crazy? Were the men and women of the American Revolution crazy? That was as much a secession as the Civil War was.
Maybe you call them crazy because you cannot intelligently debate them on the issue of secession and therefore retreat to the tactics of cowardice: Ad hominem attacks.
Palouse Guy
July 26th, 2010
9:21 pm
Well, many in the Blue States would probably welcome the secession movement. In 2005, the support of “our Southern cousins,” (the CSA, AK, OK, KY, and WV) cost us in the North a doubling of the Federal budget deficit.
Hearing about threats of secession by the South has the same sound to me as hearing that the panhandlers in a big city were threatening to leave town — don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 26th, 2010
9:34 pm
@FINN MCCOOL let’s take their guns and really give them something to wig out about!
Fine by me..but you will be grabbing the end the bullets come out..ouch.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 26th, 2010
9:38 pm
Yeah, that fiscally sound blue state of washin…oops, i mean cali..i mean new y.. i mean michig…i mean rhode isla…hey where the hell ARE you from, Palouse?
Besides, sooner or later, the pac nw will be a massive lava field and pyroplastic flow…
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 26th, 2010
9:40 pm
PyroClastic
DebbieDoRight Esq.
July 26th, 2010
9:54 pm
Fred: As far as leased equipment? I doubt if they seceded they would just give it back, don’t you?
Well if they didn’t what are the odds that the US will come and take it back?
catchynamegoeshere
July 26th, 2010
10:04 pm
Popeye @1:12
I’ve been pissed off for the past 10 – make that – 25 years. Maybe if our President will follow through on some of his promises, we can get some change we believe in. I have read the financial reform bill and I know why the Republicans opposed it. It creates another level of watchers to watch the other watchers who are already in place. Maybe you should pull your partisan head out of that can of spinach.
When a candidate comes along and makes all of these promises about no business as usual in Washington, creating jobs, saving the middle class – my ears perk up. Unfortunately he isn’t following through with any of that. I’ve read this new legislation and it is a bunch of bull. I stand by my original comments. Go read the bill for yourself.
catchynamegoeshere
July 26th, 2010
10:09 pm
Mexico wasn’t defending the settlers in Texas from Indians which was the basis for the Texan settlers (a lot of them from Mexico) wanting their freedom from the Mexican government.
Secession is crazy talk…
PeteMoylan
August 6th, 2010
3:58 am
When secession talk is in the air, we have a nation that is ruled by a hostile elite. These people hate the majority of Americans who reside in what they call Flyover Country. A nation can’t stay together very long with the fundamental differences that the Elite of both parties have with the majority of Americans. The media isn’t helping. The JournoList types who admit to making up racism accusations against Republicans just to stir the pot. Well, they stirred it alright. Omar Thornton murdered 8 men and the media is acting like he is the victim.
DosZap
August 6th, 2010
10:06 am
Take their guns?,
You come first……………if you have the nads.
My money is your a left wing idiot.
You would not know a Dicator if he hit you with a club.
Your country is burning to the ground.
The economy is cratering, and NO WAY to turn it around.
We are SO diverse in our views, and what /how we want to live…..it’s better to separate, and go our separate ways…
We are all soon going to live through times not seen since the Great Depression, except it will be worse.
Be the Ostrich, keep your head in the sand.
The Leadership in this country has made us more separate, and more distrustful of Gv’t,and racially charged than anytime in my long life.
Contrary to their promises.
If you don’t GET it now, you will SOON.
DosZap
August 6th, 2010
10:18 am
Palouse Guy ,
How you going to eat?,,,,,,,,,,,,how’s that crop output wherever you live?
I am a Texan, and we want out.We know how to run a country, and a state, we WERE a country, we were a Republic.
We can be again…………….
Secession is crazy talk…
ONLY If you want to stay where your at, and live under a DICTATORSHIP.
Want to work, and keep 25% of your money?.Keep this clown ion D.C., you have got it.
Read the Bills passed…………..better do so.
Your life is not your own……………….you will be a serf.
This Administration has passed bills, that no one has read, and are JUST now starting to be delved into.
It has run up the debt, to a point that can NEVER be repaid, ever.
That means a Hyper Inflation, your paper money will be used for TP, or patching holes in walls.
Imagine you have a Million dolars in the bank,wait until you wake up, and it’s worth, 1,000……………..
THAT is what’s headed our way……diversify, buy non perishables, and water……………or you will be a victim, of your own blindness, and stupidity.
ed
August 6th, 2010
12:41 pm
what’s wrong with secession? Divide the country in two, let the left wing big government types form a democracy and the right wing constitutionalists form a republic. We’ll see which country is better…I’ll sell everything and move to the republic.
Time for Revolution
August 7th, 2010
12:00 am
The Federal Govt is out of control. Learn your history. It took YEARS to pass the constitution because of the federalists/anti-federalists debate. The states were sovereign. They overthrew England and King George and were not about to create another monster to enslave themselves in. Think for yourselves.
All of this is a moot point because the federal government will default on it’s obligations and cause massive inflation and there will be riots and anarchy on the streets. Your dollars will be used for toilet paper and only those who forsee the future will survive. See if your FEDERAL govt will take care of you then.
Greg
August 18th, 2010
8:26 pm
Secession: the only good idea I’ve ever heard from a conservative. They want to go and we want them gone, so we can realize America’s promise and potential. We just need to figure out how to piss the conservatives off even more so that they stop running their mouths and follow through with their promises!