Afghan document dump paints a discouraging picture

I’m on column duty for tomorrow’s newspaper, so I don’t have time to do the topic full justice. It’s already pretty clear, however, the release of more than 90,000 previously secret internal military documents about the war in Afghanistan is likely to echo through the national discussion for weeks if not months.

Based on what I’ve seen so far, the material documents in ground-level detail just how difficult it has been to make lasting progress in just about any endeavor in Afghanistan. Whatever small gain we make today is washed away tomorrow, with little sense that larger goals are within reach.

The Obama administration is understandably downplaying the relevance of the documents, as the Washington Post reports:

White House officials and their allies in Afghanistan and Pakistan sought Monday to play down the political and military impact of the unauthorized release of thousands of classified Afghan war documents, saying they portray a reality on the ground that is already largely known…..

Even as they sought to minimize their significance, senior administration officials acknowledged that they had been anxiously awaiting the long-rumored posting of the documents. “There is not a lot new here for those who have been following developments closely,” one U.S. official said Sunday.

Washington officials are also pointing out that the documents cover a time frame before President Obama’s decision to commit additional manpower and resources to the fight.

“These leaked reports pre-date our new strategy in Afghanistan and should not be used as a measure of success or a determining factor in our continued mission there,” according to Ike Skelton, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. “… since these reports were issued, Pakistan has significantly stepped up its fight against the Taliban, including efforts that led to the capture of the highest-ranking member of the Taliban since the start of the war.”

“The documents posted by Wikileaks reportedly cover a period of time from January 2004 to December 2009,” National Security Adviser James Jones responded. “On December 1, 2009, President Obama announced a new strategy with a substantial increase in resources for Afghanistan, and increased focus on al Qaeda and Taliban safe-havens in Pakistan, precisely because of the grave situation that had developed over several years.”

The problem is, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that things have changed in any fundamental way since Dec. 1, 2009, and so far, the mundane if discouraging details contained in those 90,000 documents make a strong argument that they probably never will.

481 comments Add your comment

DebbieDoRight Esq.

July 26th, 2010
1:52 pm

The problem is, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that things have changed in any fundamental way since Dec. 1, 2009, and so far, the mundane if discouraging details contained in those 90,000 documents make a strong argument that they probably never will.

We should’ve learned something from Russia. Afghanistan is a fool’s mission. Get out now before we end up going broke morally, financially, and militarily. And if Dusty comes on, let me answer your question now before you bring it up. “NO, Dudley doesn’t feel that way.” But Dudley is a military man, from the top if his head to the bottom of his feet; he’d never admit defeat until there’s no other choice left.

josef nix

July 26th, 2010
2:00 pm

DDR
Unmentionable’s is a military family. I can imagine yours and Dudley’s “discussions!” They get pretty heated around here, too!

Dusty

July 26th, 2010
2:02 pm

Awww I was leaving and my patriotism called and said that Bookman was issuing another anti-American diatribe with info furnished by anti-Amrican losers.. Another” Bush did it” and our soldiers are sooo bad. This is right down the liberal firing line of how to undermine your country while our troops are fighting a war. Sick!!.

Go kiss the flag, Bookman. The American flag, that is. Don’t want you to get mixed up.

jconservative

July 26th, 2010
2:04 pm

Except for the details there is not much new here.

The problem has always been the three headed dog in Pakistan. The Paki civilian government sways with the latest check from the US & is subject to Paki public opinion just like anyplace. The military is nationalistic but basically pro US. The Paki secret service is composed to Islamic fundamentalists who basically created the Afghan Taliban in the first place. What they have in common is their hatred for India.

And Afghan is still a 12th century feudal state and will remain so.

There cannot be a US “win” in this scenario.

HDB

July 26th, 2010
2:05 pm

Afghanistan is the place where empires do to DIE!! If we don’t find a way to get out of this place with a modicum of order, this could be the downfall of the US as a nation!! Because of certain moves, we’ve lost world respect…and we’re working to recover that….but economically, we just can’t afford this!!

Dusty

July 26th, 2010
2:05 pm

DDR. Dudley is what we call a real American.

Bye. Can’t stay!!

Fly-On-The-Wall

July 26th, 2010
2:07 pm

Haven’t read it yet but it’s not like I can read 90k worth of pages in a short time either. Guess we’ll have to wait for all the pundits to give us the Cliff Notes version. I’ll withhold comments & judgement until then.

Russ555

July 26th, 2010
2:08 pm

If winning means establishing a stong central government that can control the country, that is not likely to happen. Apparantly, Afgans don’t want that.
We may be able to oust the Taliban from control of the local tribes and give them enough support to keep the Taliban out. That should be our goal now.

Doggone/GA

July 26th, 2010
2:09 pm

“If winning means ”

As far as I’m concerned, we lost that war a LONG time ago. “Winning” should have meant get Bin Laden and get out. That failure happened in the first year.

ralph

July 26th, 2010
2:10 pm

Stay the Course!

Fly-On-The-Wall

July 26th, 2010
2:11 pm

Dusty,

No mention of US soldiers are bad guys here. Never would, never will for people who are doing their job. They’ve got a tough job and they will always have my respect. Doesn’t mean they are heroes either but they are doing very difficult work and they deserve our respect and understanding.

Normal

July 26th, 2010
2:11 pm

Dusty

July 26th, 2010
2:02 pm

I still can’t understand how you think fighting a war with too many rules on our side and none on their side is patriotic? When the Soviets were there, we supplied the Afghans with Stinger missles to shoot down helicopters. There are reports today that our helicopters are being shot down by shoulder fired heat seekers. Want to bet where they are coming from? Anyway, the patriotic thing to do is to bring them home now and live to fight another day. Absolutely nothing can be gained by remaining there except more heart break for American families.

Outhouse GoKart

July 26th, 2010
2:14 pm

The only way to win is to kill em all and make Afgy a territory or possesion of the US. Otherwise forget it.

Finn McCool

July 26th, 2010
2:14 pm

Let’s hope this helps our leaders wrap this thing up soon. Enough waste of money already. End it!

Fly-On-The-Wall

July 26th, 2010
2:14 pm

Doggone (2:09) – I agree. I felt that we really let things go when we stopped hunting OBL and went to Iraq. If we’d gone after him with the same zeal that we were led into Iraq then we would have caught him (or at least a much better chance of it) and then the gratitude of the world plus the Muslim world wouldn’t hate us quite as much as they do now.

Outhouse GoKart

July 26th, 2010
2:15 pm

All these 90K pages will do is lead to additional lying from our DC DicTater.

get out much?

July 26th, 2010
2:16 pm

As so appropriately stated by Vizini in “The Princess Bride”: “You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – The most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia’”

Finn McCool

July 26th, 2010
2:16 pm

Guess we’ll have to wait for all the pundits to give us the Cliff Notes version.

You mean “wait for all the pundits to put their particular spin on it to serve their own political needs. Damn the facts” don’t you?

Fly-On-The-Wall

July 26th, 2010
2:17 pm

OGK – do you really believe that? Do you want Afgy as a terrority of the US?

@@

July 26th, 2010
2:21 pm

World powers react to WikiLeaks’ documents

WikiLeaks’ founder Julian Assange said the documents are “legitimate,” but he added it is important not to take their contents at face value.

“We publish CIA reports all the time that are legitimate CIA reports. That doesn’t mean the CIA is telling the truth,” he said.

“Similarly, with this material, there is reporting from military units of various kinds, in Afghanistan, U.S. embassies across the world, about matters relevant to Afghanistan. … Those are legitimate reports,” he said. “It doesn’t mean the contents are true.”

If they’re not true, then why publish ‘em?

Full-blown moonbat.

Weirdo!

TM

July 26th, 2010
2:23 pm

once again we get partial information and they are out to get someone. Do we have a complete picture of all this info or were there just select documents. Did we just go through this last week

@@

July 26th, 2010
2:23 pm

So, did everyone come together downstairs?

getalife

July 26th, 2010
2:24 pm

Do you trust our corrupt government to nation build with the Afghan corrupt government?

Really?

Doggone/GA

July 26th, 2010
2:24 pm

“If they’re not true, then why publish ‘em?”

You “publish” them so they can be checked out and verified to see if they are accurate or not. Being published is no guarantee of factualness.

DebbieDoRight Esq.

July 26th, 2010
2:24 pm

josef: DDR – Unmentionable’s is a military family. I can imagine yours and Dudley’s “discussions!” They get pretty heated around here, too!

At first they were; however as the years have gone by I’ve learned just to love him and support him; no matter if he’s a damn fool or not!! :)

Dusty: DDR. Dudley is what we call a real American.

Yes he is. He was born in America just like I was. And you too I think…..

FLY – ignore him….he’s just our local “fool on the hill”. We let him come out every now and then and scare the kids and bark at the dogs.

josef nix

July 26th, 2010
2:31 pm

DDR

“At first they were; however as the years have gone by I’ve learned just to love him and support him; no matter if he’s a damn fool or not!! ”
I passed that on to Unmentionable. He says, “and I’m sure he feels the same way about you!” :-)

DebbieDoRight Esq.

July 26th, 2010
2:35 pm

josef – he’d BETTER! :wink:

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

July 26th, 2010
2:36 pm

Well, I went to that Wikileaks site and couldn’t make heads or tails out of all that junk, but my buddy Jim Earl’s real smart and he says Pakistan’s version of the CIA is playing us for fools. They been helping the Taliban figure out how to kill more of our troops while taking billions of bucks we give them.

So I come up with a Republican solution for the problem. Just sell a pack of lies to Congress and get them to vote to give the President the right to go to war whenever he feels like it and then bomb the heck out of Pakistan before sending about a million of our troops in. End it all by hanging the Pakistan president and about a dozen of his people and then hang around for about 7 years of fighting it out with the holdout rebels. If the Democrats complain about it we can always point out how some of them voted for giving the President the right to go to war.

But hold on for a few days. I need the time to round up as much money as I can so I can invest in Haliburton or Xi or whatever it calls itself these days. No use blowing a chance to make a little money out of the whole thing. And if I got any money left over I want to start up a little company that makes magnet ribbons to put on SUVs that say something like Support Our Troops or Burn Pakistan and Taliban.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

joe matarotz

July 26th, 2010
2:40 pm

No matter how many of our kids get killed, or how long we stay there, we will never be able to leave Afghanistan and say, “We won”. GO back to the covert ops we used to oppose the Soviets and stop wasting American lives.

theyeshaveit

July 26th, 2010
2:48 pm

Dusty,

What did Jay do that was Anti-American? You know, Joe McCarthy is dead and buried. And I have not seen many things as anti-American as a bullet in Afghanistan. It is time to get out of there.

theyeshaveit

July 26th, 2010
2:50 pm

@@ said So, did everyone come together downstairs?

Nope. We seceded.

Normal

July 26th, 2010
2:50 pm

I am glad that we are finally getting the information we need to decide for ourselves. Maybe now popular dissent derived from credible information will help turn the tide of public opinion and force our “Leaders” to bring our children home.

Finn McCool

July 26th, 2010
2:51 pm

This note comes courtesy of my friend David Sirota out in Colorado. This is a classic example of how the Senate works. If the public understood better how rigged this game is, and how few issues are actually left to an honest vote in the legislature, I’m pretty sure the pitchfork factor would be twice even what it is now.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/182561/83512

RW-(the original)

July 26th, 2010
2:51 pm

Oh good, McCarthy. What did he do that was so anti-American again?

Maybe Friday we can do a McCarthy thread then an evolution thread. That should get the music one off to a roaring start.

Dave R.

July 26th, 2010
2:52 pm

“Being published is no guarantee of factualness.”

All you have to do is read one of CT’s or JB’s columns to know that! :D

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
2:53 pm

I’m so glad this story came out, if only that it led to an easy blog topic for Jay, and one I’ve been waiting for. For an administration rife with errors, basically one blunder after another, this is perhaps the largest one. What’s particularly odorous is that O took his time to make this decision. After weighing all the inputs for weeks and having all the history of our efforts and results in Iraq and Afghanistan to date (something Bush didn’t have when he made the original invasion decisions) the man decides to send 50,000 more troops into this hopeless situation. At a minimum this should be an impeachable offense and should probably also subject O to trial for war cirmes against America and Afghanistan.

Jefferson

July 26th, 2010
3:02 pm

Bring the troops home. Nothing there to win. They don’t think western and never will.

Doggone/GA

July 26th, 2010
3:08 pm

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
3:12 pm

Quit changing the subject doggone. Tell us how your president is doing with this Afghan thing.

[...] chief denies aiding TalibanAljazeera.netISI orchestrated Indian embassy attack in Kabul: ReportSifyAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -CNN (blog) -ABC Online -FOXNewsall 3,948 news [...]

Doggone/GA

July 26th, 2010
3:13 pm

“Tell us how your president is doing with this Afghan thing.”

OK…MY president is doing exactly the same thing as YOUR president

Brett

July 26th, 2010
3:23 pm

More of the oily, toxic residue left on the sidewalks of the world by 8 years of the worst & most demeaning period in American history. The BushDrunk years of a quivering mass of ignoble sadness and blighted phlegm. That dumbed down drunk & his cadre of flying monkeys. Today’s Murcuh!!

Scout

July 26th, 2010
3:23 pm

TWO HEADLINES:

TODAY: More NATO troops will die in Afghanistan as violence mounts over the summer, but Washington’s goal of turning the tide against the insurgency by year’s end is within reach, the top U.S. military officer said on Sunday.

1969: More Allied troops will die in South Vietnam as violence mounts over the summer, but Washington’s goal of turning the tide against the NVA and Viet Cong by year’s end is within reach, the top U.S. military officer said on Sunday.

@@

July 26th, 2010
3:24 pm

Doggone:

You “publish” them so they can be checked out and verified to see if they are accurate or not.

What I’d like verified is whether the Obama administration used this moonbat, Assange, to put pressure on Pakistan.

How pathetic would that be?

My personal opinion is that Bush had it right in Afghanistan. Go in, complete the mission (if not kill, then put Al Qaeda on the run) and get out. Only problem I see is we didn’t get all the way out. Satellite surveillance and a promise to return would have been enough.

I don’t know what the hell Obama thinks he’s doin’ with his surge. With the “facts” in front of him, he sends in more troops?

Maybe it’s one of his campaign promises he’s looking to fill.

Gammer

July 26th, 2010
3:24 pm

What was that line by Michael Biehn’s character in ‘Aliens’?

Doggone/GA

July 26th, 2010
3:25 pm

“My personal opinion is that Bush had it right in Afghanistan. Go in, complete the mission (if not kill, then put Al Qaeda on the run) and get out. ”

Yep, he had it right…to bad he didn’t DO that.

RW-(the original)

July 26th, 2010
3:26 pm

@@

July 26th, 2010
3:31 pm

Doggone:

If you think Al Qaeda prime is capable of launching another major attack inside the U.S., then you need to look at all “their” failed efforts in the last nine years. Sympathizers and wannabes…that’s all they’ve got going for ‘em.

The head of the snake has been removed and virtually buried. The body writhes.

Del

July 26th, 2010
3:31 pm

First of all we’ve not fully supported the mission that we’ve tasked our military to fulfill. We’ve encumbered them with foolish rules of engagement. We’ve allowed A.Q. sanctuary in Northern Pakistan, believing that drone attacks are sufficiently effective. We fail to see that the Afghan people just don’t share our values nor care to emulate our culture and never will. We continue to prop up the corrupt Hamid Karzai government and allow Pakistan to play us for fools. I can’t see any justifiable reason for us to waste the lives of our most valuable resource. Advise the Afghan government that we will never again allow their country to become a H.Q. for international terrorism and bring our troops home.

Joe

July 26th, 2010
3:35 pm

Obama will to start pulling troops from Afghanistan beginning next summer. Bet on it.

Scout

July 26th, 2010
3:39 pm

Headline(CBS) – WikiLeaks: “White House Tries to Kill Messenger” :

Jay: Can anyone say Daniel Ellsberg. Funny how it is when libs are in the driver’s seat.

Joe

July 26th, 2010
3:40 pm

John Birch: “After weighing all the inputs for weeks and having all the history of our efforts and results in Iraq and Afghanistan to date (something Bush didn’t have when he made the original invasion decisions) the man decides to send 50,000 more troops into this hopeless situation. At a minimum this should be an impeachable offense and should probably also subject O to trial for war cirmes against America and Afghanistan.

Impeachment? War crimes? I guess times have changed since a couple of years ago when the right was insisting that we support our commander-in-chief in a time of war.

Oh, that’s right. A Democrat is in the White House.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
3:40 pm

Leave Afghanistan. It’s just that simple. There isn’t a single person over there that is worth a damaged hair on one of OUR soldiers. They have been fighting each other for 1000’s of years with the only breaks being when they pause long enough to fight outsiders like us who try to intervene.

Doggone nailed it in his (her?) 2:09 post:

“Winning” should have meant get Bin Laden and get out. That failure happened in the first year.

What else needs be said?

Scout

July 26th, 2010
3:41 pm

“When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.”

Rudyard Kipling

Fred

July 26th, 2010
3:45 pm

Nice quote Scout. I think he stole from a Macedonian though lol.

RAMBLE ON!!!

July 26th, 2010
3:47 pm

Joe,

How much did you bet on Gitmo?

Scout

July 26th, 2010
3:47 pm

“OFF TOPIC #1″

WASHINGTON – “The White House says first lady Michelle Obama will travel to Spain next week for a private trip with longtime family friends.

Mrs. Obama will be traveling with her youngest daughter, Sasha. President Barack Obama and daughter Malia will not be on the trip.

The White House says Mrs. Obama pay an official visit to Spain’s King Juan Carlos and Queen Sophia (THIS IS SO THE TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY FOR THE TRIP). That meeting, as well as Mrs. Obama’s other activities, will be closed to the press.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0fmNo7474&feature=related (A LITTLE MUSIC TO GO ALONG)

jt

July 26th, 2010
3:47 pm

Fighting wars is really the only way for corrupt governments to survive. The businessmen who could win Afganistan have been co-opted or fled. (see Button Gwinnett). It happens all the time.

Don’t worry, we have invaded Costa Rica to be on the safe side. The lack of media coverage is fascinating. We can keep the military industrial complex going.

There is also Iran or North Korea. It is always better for those guys to be slaughtered than us IMHO.
Don’t think for a minute that they won’t violently plunder US if all else fails. Been done before.(1861-65)

“In a controversial decision that is likely to fan the flames of regional tensions in Latin America, “Costa Rica recently granted the US permission to move 7,000 troops and 46 warships (along with their accompanying planes and helicopters) into Costa Rican waters. Officially, the act is considered to be part of the “Drug War,” which appears to be increasingly more war-like in nature due to such actions and mounting violence in Mexico and Colombia. Costa Rica’s neighbors, however, see the massive military presence as a potential base for regional strikes.”

R & D voters get what they deserve.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
3:48 pm

(I live in hell. I’m typing to the accompaniment of two little girls singing along to a Selena Gomez cd. Someone PLEASE come poke my ears out………)

RAMBLE ON!!!

July 26th, 2010
3:48 pm

Umm, wasn’t that suppose to be closed 18 mths…err 6 months ago?

@@

July 26th, 2010
3:49 pm

What’s really entertaining is to watch the war between Cryptome and Wikileaks.

They’re ALL loony tunes. Comical characters looking for an audience.

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
3:51 pm

Joe – No party lines here. But Bush had a whole diferent set of circumstances. We were attacked by an enemy that chose to hide among civilians rather than identify itself, one that also moved across national borders with ease. So he tried to combat the terrorists on two fronts. Obama, after seeing the less than stellar result sof both those efforts, REPEATED THE SAME STUPDI, FAILED POLICY. Do you see where there is a diference between trying something in a very difficult situation and repeating soemthing you’ve seen nt work for six years?!!!

Fred

July 26th, 2010
3:52 pm

The taxpayers pay for it Scout, because it’s in the best interests of our Country to protect the First Lady and her children. She’s paying a visit to the Spanish royalty because it would be rude for her not to and would offend an Allie. Are she and her daughters supposed to be held prisoner in the White House 24/7 for the tenure of her husbands term? That’s just stupid.

Also, I find your video choice distasteful.

stands for decibels

July 26th, 2010
3:54 pm

NetBanker

July 26th, 2010
3:57 pm

~As far as I’m concerned, we lost that war a LONG time ago. “Winning” should have meant get Bin Laden and get out. That failure happened in the first year

That about says it all. I grew up as close to military as you can get without being in it (Dad was a scientist on an Army base and all the base kids went to the schools in our area) and I think we need to bring our troops home. The Afghan government is corrupt and only controls the cities anyway. The rest is a land of feudal warlords who won’t give up their power either. It’s hopeless.

@@

July 26th, 2010
3:58 pm

Obama’s Afghanistan surge is nothing more than his chosen codpiece to coddle his left-wing base.

coddle: 1 : to cook (as eggs) in liquid slowly and gently just below the boiling point
2 : to treat with extreme or excessive care

Now that same left-wing base is looking to cook your eggs, Mr. President.

Never trust a left-winger. They stand for nothing and everything all at the same time.

Del

July 26th, 2010
4:02 pm

Obama campaigned on Afghanistan being the war to win and Iraq was the wrong war and he would withdraw troops in his first term. Now that Iraq appears as though it may succeed, Obama wants to take credit for it. He’s really stuck with Afghanistan since he campaigned on winning there and after then attempting to back away was forced into committing more troops to the surge strategy. He now owns the war in Afghanistan and was further committed when Petreus backed him out of a July 011 troop draw down in order to agree to take command. The campaigner and chief is now stuck and unfortunately so are our troops and our country.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
4:03 pm

Here’s a good song to describe this, (and one HELL of a great cover of a stone cold classic):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vy1OoBAL-E&feature=PlayList&p=6332B2C1A05D6223&index=2&playnext=1

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:04 pm

“The DISCLOSE Act would simply require corporate political advertisers to reveal who’s funding their activities,” Obama said during remarks in the White House Rose
Garden.

“Nobody’s saying you can’t run the ads,” Obama said, occasionally slapping the presidential lectern for emphasis. “Just make sure that people know who in fact is behind financing these ads.”

Well we know who’s funding Harry Reid’s…that would be BIG PHARMA.

ralph

July 26th, 2010
4:10 pm

Obama should call Crawford and ask GW if he can borrow his flight suit, land on a carrrier and proclaim, “Mission Accomplished”.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
4:10 pm

And china is sponsoring Pelosi, I mean her husband, I mean china…………

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:10 pm

Not many comments on this topic.

I wonder why?

[...] TalibanAljazeera.netISI orchestrated Indian embassy attack in Kabul: ReportSifyCBS News -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -CNN (blog) -Toronto Starall 3,924 news [...]

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
4:13 pm

Del – Campaigner in chief. That really just about says it all. He has proven to be the classic empty suit and a person with that much power who will say or do anything to win votes is very dangerous. Other than vacation days he makes an appearance more than anyone I know with something called the View being next up. Perhaps they can bring Rosie back just for this very special occasion.

TaxPayer

July 26th, 2010
4:13 pm

These leaked documents were written by the same people that wrote all those memos warning us about global warming and that’s the truth.

Del

July 26th, 2010
4:18 pm

John Birch,

Ever since the campaigner and chief ran for office and won, he’s been running away from his elected office. He doesn’t know how to govern, so continues his endless campaign. You’re right though, he is dangerous.

RW-(the original)

July 26th, 2010
4:23 pm

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
4:24 pm

I don’t get this boots on the ground to win the hearts and minds of the…vietnamese, koreans, Iraqis, Afghans, etc, etc, etc…approach. It’s pretty hard to win the harts of the locals by invading and occupying unless you’re invading France where the people are basically cowards. I say cut down the casualties and the expenses; get the boots off the ground, maintain a strong carrier group in the Gulf, and bomb as necessary.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
4:27 pm

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:10 pm

Not many comments on this topic.

I wonder why?

Maybe everyone agrees we should get out of there? Or maybe too many seceded on the last thread lol.

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:31 pm

Fred:

Maybe everyone agrees we should get out of there?

That’s not what many of jay’s left-wingers were saying before Obama was elected. Afghanistan was the right war, the good war, the just war.

Saul Good

July 26th, 2010
4:35 pm

John Birch: “It’s pretty hard to win the harts of the locals by invading and occupying unless you’re invading France where the people are basically cowards.”

Except when we needed their help to win the war that FOUNDED this county in the first place! Because truth be told…we probably would never have won the war for our independence if not for our friends from France… they stood side by side with us in many battles and lost many lives helping is. Cowards you say?

“French involvement proved decisive, with a French naval victory in the Chesapeake leading to the surrender of a British army at Yorktown in 1781. The Treaty of Paris in 1783 ended the war and recognized the sovereignty of the United States over the territory bounded by what is now Canada to the north, Florida to the south, and the Mississippi River to the west.”

Maybe you never read that part about our nation’s founding.

Try respecting the very one’s who played a HUGE part in helping us obtain our freedom. Sorry that Glenn Beck never taught you about France’s involvement in our nation’s founding.

Fred

July 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

A lot of lefties were saying that @@ and I never understood it. Not to keep quoting Doggone, but doggone it, that quote just nails it:

“Winning” should have meant get Bin Laden and get out. That failure happened in the first year.”

We can do nothing now except get Americans killed. Bin Laden split from there a long time ago. Iraq is a debacle. But look at the bright side, have combined the mistakes in Viet Nam by US and the mistakes by the Russians in Afghanistan over a 30 year period all at the same time lol. We Americans are ALWAYS in a rush……….

DebbieDoRight Esq.

July 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

@@ – That’s is SO not true. People said that “compared to IRAQ”, they could undertand the war in Afghan more than they could undertand the Iraq war. Afghan was originally about 9/11 and Al Queada, who knows WHAT Iraq was about.

del: Now that Iraq appears as though it may succeed, Obama wants to take credit for it. He’s really stuck with Afghanistan since he campaigned on winning there and after then attempting to back away was forced into committing more troops to the surge strategy.

Obama never campaigned about winning any war in Afghanistan. That must’ve been one of your dreams from that time you ate that bad sardine sandwich.

Fred- left a post for you downstairs.

Saul Good

July 26th, 2010
4:37 pm

“Afghanistan was the right war, the good war, the just war.”

There’s no such thing as a “good” war… One side simply “loses” more then the other. Outcomes may be considered “good”… but war in itself is NEVER a good thing for any and all involved.

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:39 pm

Some elements in Pakistan’s intelligence service maintain contact with and support the Taliban as a way of building influence in Afghanistan and countering Indian influence, but such assistance for militants is being slowly curtailed, U.S. military and intelligence officials said, Reuters reported July 26. Officials also said they were not surprised by the contents of leaked U.S. military reports discussing Pakistani ties with the Taliban.

Assuming that Obama is receiving intelligence and military personnel, this is now Obama’s war…warts and all.

Bud Wiser

July 26th, 2010
4:39 pm

The Associated Press

NEW YORK — ABC’s “The View” has welcomed many notable guests, but none more prominent than President Barack Obama, who is scheduled to visit for Thursday’s edition.

Stinking coward will be interviewed by no one but state run media suck-ups.

I am certain he will paint a rosy picture on the economy, jobs, and Afghanistan, much like his stooges.

@@

July 26th, 2010
4:40 pm

Oops!

…reports from intelligence and military personnel…

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
4:41 pm

Saul – Maybe they didn’t lose their balls until the 20th century, Napoleon was pretty tough. We bailed them out in WWI ann WWII. By most accounts they welcomed the Americans as much as they had the Germans. Oh and there was that little mess in SE Asia. In return they bailed on us in Iraq in a big hurry. Vichy cowards I say.

Del

July 26th, 2010
4:43 pm

DebbieDo,

Never cared for sardines. As for Obama’s campaign inclusion of needing to win in Afghanistan, sorry but he certainly did say so, and still does.

josef nix

July 26th, 2010
4:44 pm

La Fayette nous sommes ici…
War of 1812
WW I
WW 2
Vietnam
Lebanon

I think that debt’s been repaid with considerable interest…

Saul Good

July 26th, 2010
4:45 pm

here ya go John Birch…. since you believe that the French are “cowards” (your word for them)…perhaps you should read about how those “cowards” helped found this nation… by standing side by side with our own troops.

Try learning a little history and this time…READ it ALL….take your time…and do your best to understand the words forming the sentences. Turn off Foxy News and Rush rambling on the radio in the background. Feel free to send them the same link when done reading…I’m pretty sure that they too missed this part in Social Studies-History Class.

http://people.csail.mit.edu/sfelshin/saintonge/frhist.html

Glad those “cowards” stepped up to the plate… they needed not to do so… yet they did.

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
4:46 pm

I’d like to think Iraq and Afghanistan were to establish semi-permanent bases for the inevitable Iran invasion but who knows. One good thing in Iraq, that disaster was at least mitigated by being able to kill thousands of terrorists who came there for the chance to kill Americans. I’d like to see the terrorists killed in Iraq vs terrorists killed in Afghanistan numbers, I’m guessing it’s about 20 to 1 or more.

John Birch

July 26th, 2010
4:48 pm

saul – Again, that’s so pre-20th century. They wiped all that good out with their extreme cowardice the last 100 years. They wouldn’t stand by us on the battlefield but they sure ran in to gobble up all the business contracts they could get.

DebbieDoRight Esq.

July 26th, 2010
4:50 pm

del – talk is cheap. find me a link where, when Obama was campaigning, he stated that he would WIN THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN. Oh and don’t b@@tch out and say “find it yourself debbie” or some such crap like that. You made the statement you back it up. Blog rules.

Dave R.

July 26th, 2010
4:50 pm

“NEW YORK — ABC’s “The View” has welcomed many notable guests, but none more prominent than President Barack Obama, who is scheduled to visit for Thursday’s edition.”

Bet there will be more than one cast member having a thrill run up their leg on Thursday! :D

Pump up the A/C ladies!

Saul Good

July 26th, 2010
4:53 pm

John Birch: “In return they bailed on us in Iraq in a big hurry”

Baling out on war cooked up on lies, misrepresentations, and fear mongering BS is not “bailing out”… it’s smart. Good for them. Which we could have been so smart…though we had too many idiots watching terror alerts on Foxy News believing that Iraq had something to do with 9-11…. and that Saddam was going to be sending over rubber-band propelled “drones” to spray poison gases on all of our cities… or maybe you were too busy putting up plastic and duct taping your doors and windows (as called for on Foxy News and some of the other propaganda outlets)… oh..btw…it’s okay… you can take that stuff down now. Turns out Saddam never had any WMD’s (besides the one’s the Republicans sold him in the 80’s)…and was never really a threat to us to begin with.

Yeah..the French really screwed up not getting involved in that war…

BTW…starting a war…that’s not “cool” nor does it make someone tough. It’s the “better” man who uses his/her head and avoid the loss of life. (you know…ALL life is sacred right)???

Chris Salzmann

July 26th, 2010
4:55 pm

The key to winning in Afghanistan was to get it right in the first two years we were there. Instead, we dropped the ball to chase down mythical WMDs in Iraq and took our eyes of the ball all those years ago. After all, Bin Laden didn’t try and kill someone’s daddy…………..

Del

July 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

DebbieDo,

Okay Debbie just to make you happy and from what may very well be one of your esteemed publications no less. After this one Google will have to be your friend.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/obamas-promise-to-win-in_b_117719.html

ralph

July 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

If we invaded reality there wouldn’t be a tea-party member insight….

Del

July 26th, 2010
5:04 pm

“After all Bin Laden didn’t try to kill someone’s daddy”

He killed a lot of daddy’s…You may want to share your formula for winning with Obama, as he seems to be agreeing more and more with GWB.