What we don’t talk about when we don’t talk about race
Shirley Sherrod
Even in intimate discussions among friends, it can be hard to talk honestly and in depth about race and racism.
It’s easy to see why. Irrational sentiments that burble up out of the most primitive recesses of our souls — emotions that are then refracted through personal and collective experience — just don’t translate easily into rational thought.
And once such a thought is formed and expressed, it must then be heard and processed by other minds that are grappling with those same challenges, but from a very different perspective.
A lot can go wrong in that translation from one mind to another. And when you scale that conversation up and try to involve millions in the discussion, the number of ways that things can go wildly wrong increase geometrically, particularly when some in the conversation are trying to manipulate it for economic gain or political ambition.
Those dangers have led many to conclude that in public, it is better to avoid the topic of race altogether than to risk misunderstanding and the inflammation of dangerous passions.
I disagree.
As painful as the Shirley Sherrod case has been, for example, I think the country understands itself better today than it did a week ago.
True, some of what we’ve come to understand is not that pleasant. We’ve seen the power of people such as Andrew Breitbart, who released a harshly distorted video depicting Sherrod as a racist. He almost destroyed her career and her life in the process, yet he still refuses to apologize or take responsibility.
Andrew Breitbart
We also saw elements of the American media as well as the Obama administration leap to conclusions on command, like well-trained poodles wearing shock collars, only to sheepishly reverse course once the truth became known.
In the process, though, we also became familiar with the real story of Sherrod, a black woman who was born and raised in the Jim Crow South and who lost her father in a murder supposedly committed by a white neighbor who was never prosecuted.
In the last few days, hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans have watched the 43-minute videotape in which Sherrod relates her struggle to overcome the resentment and distrust toward white people created by that and other experiences.
It’s a great story, honestly told, and I’d bet that most of those who took the time to watch that tape at one point reflected on their own, perhaps uncompleted journey to that same grace that Sherrod has tried to attain.
That is a good thing. America has never been a static concept. To the contrary, it has existed in a permanent state of transformation politically and economically as well as demographically.
Within the past generation, long-term trends such as immigration, civil rights, gay rights and feminism have transformed the face and power structure of the country. As a result, the ability not just to tolerate but to welcome and celebrate those of other backgrounds has become essential to success.
Until a few years ago, many Americans had talked themselves into thinking that we had put questions of race behind us, that we had already emerged into a post-racial society in which such things no longer matter. And while the election of Barack Obama might have been seen as confirmation of that belief, in fact it has done the opposite. It has brought to the surface elements of racism that many had tried to pretend no longer existed.
It is important to keep that statement in perspective. In uncertain times, strong and sincere disagreement about the nation’s course ahead is inevitable. The political standoff that exists in Washington today would exist even if Obama looked and talked like Mitt Romney, because it is based on honest differences of policy and ideology, not race.
But if we’re honest, we must also acknowledge that race has given some of the opposition to Obama a nasty edge and a passion that at times is out of proportion to its inspiration.
These are tough times. It is a lot easier to trust your fellow man when you feel secure in your job and home than when you wake up each morning fearful it all might be snatched away by forces that you cannot comprehend or control. What we’ve seen in the last few days is the danger posed by those who would profit by stoking and feeding those fears, rather than try to calm them.
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542 comments Add your comment
Don't forget
July 23rd, 2010
9:02 am
Bruno
Couldn’t agree more. The extremist’s suck all the air out of the room and make rational discourse impossible. Their compass is ideology not reality and they are a major reason we can’t solve problems that have plagued us for decades. And it’s usually the party that is out of power that is braying the loudest and upping the ante on every percieved slight they have experienced.
DawgDad
July 23rd, 2010
9:03 am
“The political standoff that exists in Washington today would exist even if Obama looked and talked like Mitt Romney, because it is based on honest differences of policy and ideology, not race.
But if we’re honest, we must also acknowledge that race has given some of the opposition to Obama a nasty edge and a passion that at times is out of proportion to its inspiration.”
Jay, to be blunt, your article was surprisingly honest. I’d have never dreamed in 1000 years you’d write a sentence like the first quoted above. The problem lies in your follow-up. You’re only acknowledging half the issue, and the lesser half at that. To be honest and provide a path to healing instead of cleaving further divide you AT THE VERY LEAST must reference racial influence on BOTH sides. To infer that the Obama side is somehow above all this racial stuff moreso than his opposition is pure nonsense (Reverend Wright, anyone?). This type of analysis is pure race-baiting in both your tone and message.
Call it like it is.
July 23rd, 2010
9:03 am
I will have to admit I don’t care. I am tired of the racial nonsence. Our country is unique where a race was brought into slavery, and then made citizens. Decades have gone by and the hurt is still there and not going away. Yes Blacks and Whites have common goals, wants and needs, but both also have different beliefs and attitudes. Not saying this is a bad thing, but we are different and need to accept it.
Lets face it people, races for the most part want to stick with their own kind. Is this bad? We have our own churches, our own parks, our own hangouts, our own restaurants. I have no great desire to go to downtown Atlanta to attend a Southern Black Church, as I am sure Atlanta citizens have no great desire to come to Cobb County to my church. So what? I don’t listen to rap, doesnt mean I hate it, I just don’t listen to it. Again so what? People our races can be friends and we can live together, but we are never going to have some utopia.
Everything is not based on color of your skin, you know you may getting treated like your an ass, because maybe you are one.
I tell you what Jay, get back to me when each race gets rid of their special little social clubs, caucus for a certain race, TV for a certain race, magazines for a certain race and so on and so on……………It will never happen, so quit worrying about it
jt
July 23rd, 2010
9:03 am
Federo-sexual—————–See also African-American, Neo-Con.
Jay
July 23rd, 2010
9:07 am
I appreciate your post, Mark, and its tone. I do want to address this point:
“When is the last time you heard a repub/conserv say lets kill all the black people and there babies…or, praise Bin Laden..If the Left and this admin. would just publicly denouce these idiots, I think the right would feel alot better.”
Reading that, it sounds as if you believe that “demo/libs”, to borrow your phraseology, had said let’s kill all the white people and their babies or praised Bin Laden.” They haven’t. One nutcase with the New Black Panthers did so, but they are no more “demo/libs” than neo-Nazis and KKK members are “repub/conservs.”
Nobody felt George W. Bush was in any way obliged to condemn such groups simply because he is white and they are white. It would have been ridiculous. So why on earth would you feel that Barack Obama is obliged to do so? A fringe hate group is a fringe hate group, and requiring Obama to denounce said groups implies that otherwise, you suspect he shares their ideology. And that’s nuts.
The problem is that to gin up fear, Fox and others have turned the New Black Panthers into some major threat to white people, when in fact they are utterly inconsequential. By Media Matters’ count, Fox dedicated 95 segments and more than eight hours of national air time to the New Black Panthers between June 30 and July 16, all because one guy stood in front of a polling place for an hour with a baton before being marched off by police.
I suppose CNN could also do 95 segments on that lone, heavily armed nutcase in California whom police intercepted on his way to shoot up the ACLU and the Tides Foundation. I suppose I could imply that NRB2, who posted here about his Timothy McVeigh fantasies, is a “repub/conserv” whom the rest of you conservatives must denounce.
But that too would be lunacy.
david wayne osedach
July 23rd, 2010
9:07 am
It is because of commentary like that this that I read the AJC every day! The subject of race is constantly evolving – for the better. But it is big and it is still there.
Paulo977
July 23rd, 2010
9:08 am
“The more we know about people…….” Oh well said Gale
Real American
July 23rd, 2010
9:09 am
Race will always take place in this country as long as low life like Hannity, Rush, Beck keep selling it to lower class whites who wont reseach the truth themself.
CNBC REACTS TO EVERY THING FOX DOES, AT LEAST THAT DONT PROMOTE RACE BAITING LIKE FOX, THESE IS NOT NEW WALTER CRONKITE WAS NEWS, COMPARE HIM TO SHAWN HANNITY, WHAT A JOKE.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 23rd, 2010
9:09 am
Yeah, it’s only the right who makes race a issue, it wasn’t Bill clinton who talked about all of the burning black churches in his youth(which I recall noone could find evidence of within 100 miles of hicksville, arkansas where he was raised)
Normal
July 23rd, 2010
9:11 am
Enter your comments here
Jay
July 23rd, 2010
9:11 am
And to “call it:”
What you claim will never happen is in fact happening right in front of you. Compare the situation today to what it was 10 years ago or 20 years ago, and the progress is obvious. The generations coming up behind us have a lot less baggage about such issues than we do, and their own children will have still less.
Utopia? No. But the lines between us are growing more and more dim.
Big D
July 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
Jay,
As I have stated before I am of mixed race and grew up on an AFB and in Black and white communities in the south during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. I saw it all, from the freedom riders buses burned in Anniston to Bull Conner hosing people down in Birmingham when my parents took me to see a concert there. I was lucky and moved in both worlds and when people didn’t know my lineage they would inadvertently share there innermost opinions on this subject. The conclusion I came to was simple, some of the white people are racist and some of the Black people are too. I remember well LBJ and the ” Great society” and the steady decline of the Black community after that and in Alabama the building of the “Government Housing” later to become the “Ghetto”. After MLK was killed the atmosphere on both sides of the issue drastically changed with paranoia showing it’s ugly head on both sides of the world I traveled in. When it became profitable to keep blacks and whites at odds with each other we ALL lost. It started with the Black “leaders ” and migrated quickly to the white “pundits” and has been used effectively ever sense. From my position I have always looked at it from a position of logic, if white people were ALL bad the slave issue would have been a non issue in the Civil War, it took a MAJORITY of white people to make slavery an issue let alone abolish it. When the War was over it took a majority of WHITE legislatures to intact the 13, 14 and 15th amendments. Last but not at all the leased White people elected Barrack Obama. We should all look at the ones who are profiting the most from the racial divide we are now in and move quickly to ostracize those people and not each other, we have too much to lose.
RF
July 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
Scout: come on down to rural south GA where I am and you’ll see racism alive and well. People get along as long as “the coloreds” stay in generally accepted geographical areas to live (public places like Wal-Mart are okay to mix). If there weren’t racism still lurking in the dark corner of American consciousness (at least politically), then why would Breitbart, et. al. jump so furiously at every opportunity to try to prove the NAACP is racist. Makes one feel better about one’s own sin when one can, like my children, say “see, he did it toooooo!!”
I think many out there are consciously racist, they’re just scared. Scared of the shift in power that is slowly happening, scared of the country falling apart if the “uppity” folks find their power, scared of what might happen if they end up being the minority. For all that has been accomplished in the last 60 years, the basic white power structure hasn’t shifted significantly across this country. Electing Obama, at least symbolically, points out a shift in the power structure that scares some people mightily.
The Ugly Truth
July 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
Keep it up Jay. Maybe you’ll get invited invited to an NAACP party. Wait, probably not. Racism exists only within those who can benefit from it.
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
9:13 am
The Truth
July 23rd, 2010
9:02 am
I preface this comment by saying I am an independent who votes his conscience whether it be right or left. I also will say that I was a Journalism major in college in the 70s who was taught to report the facts not rumor or inuenndo.
Now, Jay, having said that, I think it is high time that we begin to classify Fox and MSNBC for what they really are. ……………………
++++++++++++++++++
They are driven by ratings. O’ Reilly brags about FOX’s ratings. Telling people what they want to hear will make you more popular but it is hard to do that and establish credibility at the same time. What FOX really shows is there are more conservative than liberal who are willing to spend time listening to people tell them what they want to hear.
RW-(the original)
July 23rd, 2010
9:13 am
The equating of Shirley Sherrod with Mother Teresa is as absurd on Friday as painting her as David Duke was on Monday. She still said the GOP only opposes Obama because he’s black and she labels the Fox News Channel as a racist organization, which says a lot about what she thinks of their viewers, but refuses to go on the channel and attempt to make her point.
RF
July 23rd, 2010
9:13 am
Oops, meant to type AREN’T consciously racist….haven’t had the second cup of joe yet!
Normal
July 23rd, 2010
9:15 am
Sorry about my 9:11…
I was going to commend Mike on his tolerance for the ones different in political postures than he, and to tell him what a fine example of understanding and empathy he is…but I froze…
Doggone/GA
July 23rd, 2010
9:16 am
“It’s the White House and Dept of Agrc. that is responsible”
And they have apologized, as they should have, and have offered reparations. Where is Breitbart’s apology and offer of reparations? You can try to pin this on the WH and Ag dept all you want, Breitbart is ultimately the one at fault and the one who most owes her an apology. He is the one who started the lies about her, and he is the one who bears the greatest burden of fault.
HDB
July 23rd, 2010
9:16 am
Jay…thanks for being on point today!!
candide July 23rd, 2010
8:59 am
“You cannot talk about race owing to liberal political correctness. You cannot criticize blacks for their immoral and decadent style of life.. You cannot tell the truth.”
Wrong….in many circumstances, the truth IS being told…but what happens in many cases is the TONE is more derogatory than effective! Look at how the preponderance of minorities are seen: unemployed, “welfare queens” (as was stated by Reagan), criminals…when the counter is more the case! Look at how conservatives portray minorities in election cycles; look at the DEARTH of minority representation in the GOP!!
Look…the argument affects both sides of the coin….but the tone and the schism that conservatives create to amplify their position does not help solve the problem. If one also notes how black conservatives are being used by white conservatives to fracture the black community…then a better conversation of race could begin! If conservatives would note how laws like SB 1070 that TARGET minorities and promote racial profiling add to the discourse, then….conversations as to how to solve the issue could commence in earnest!!
This is from someone who HAS been adversely affected by more conservative policies than progressive….
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
9:17 am
Big D
July 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
Jay,
As I have stated before I am of mixed race and grew up on an AFB and in Black and white communities in the south during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. I saw it all, from the freedom riders buses burned in Anniston to Bull Conner hosing people down in Birmingham when my parents took me to see a
++++++++++++
Well written Big D.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 23rd, 2010
9:17 am
The more I read about sherrod and her husband and the albany movement and the SNCC, this couples been race pimpin it since the 60’s and seem to have constructed an entire race based government check mill in sw GA based around the 1 day a year farmer system.
I hope some investigative reporting will look into their actions as they wick taxpayer funds into their leftist pockets, but to do that would be pickin on the black lady, and racist, i guess
@@
July 23rd, 2010
9:18 am
We have finally reached the point when everyone can be falsely called a racist.
Yep! …then there’s the more subtle accusations like the one jay laid on me the other day.
jay:
I’ll see if my neighbor wants to engage in this online intervention. Anything I say or do might be misconstrued as racist…seein’s how I’m dark but not yet black.
I doubt seriously if he can find the time or the interest. He’s a black small business owner (home improvement). He’s working hard to keep his head above water in anticipation of Obama’s tax hike on the “wealthy”. Loves his sisters (biological). Hates their politics (democrats).
Thanks for your “concern” though.
Big D
July 23rd, 2010
9:19 am
Thanks Mod…Just the truth.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:21 am
Jay I agree, as you would see in my later post…BOTH SIDES need to denouce these people, then there would be no story. and while thet may not be obligated to do so, I think it would help ease tensions in this country..
But, Im still gonna have to disagree about the NBP’s…anybody that spreads that kind of message needs to be taken seriously no matter how small an org. thay may be.
Richie
July 23rd, 2010
9:22 am
if a white person disagrees with a black person u are a racist. Havent u folks fig.that out yet.
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:24 am
Breitbart said he did not edit the tape, however, it sure looked like it had been edited exactly the same way as the Pimp/Acorn tapes…
Coincidence…I think not…
I posit that Breitbart is a partisan hack with a destructive agenda AND an outright liar. Let’s see how FOX and others treat him going forward…it will be very illuminating.
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:24 am
HDB
July 23rd, 2010
9:16 am
candide July 23rd, 2010
8:59 am
“You cannot talk about race owing to liberal political correctness. You cannot criticize blacks for their immoral and decadent style of life.. You cannot tell the truth.”
Why did you feed the troll? Now it will be back spewing even MORE stuff HDB……….. the shelf life of an ignored troll is very short, we had almost reached candice’s……….
T Knight
July 23rd, 2010
9:24 am
“I know of no rights of race superior to the rights of humanity” Frederick Douglas
If only Frederick Douglas’s philosophy were true today. Race relations will never improve as long as people keep looking back.
Jay
July 23rd, 2010
9:25 am
So Mark, do you also think we need to highlight the KKK, Stormfront.org, etc.? Do Sarah Palin and Mitch McConnell need to go before the cameras to denounce those groups, just so we know they don’t agree with them?
Bruno
July 23rd, 2010
9:25 am
Enjoyed the fellowship this morning.
Best wishes to all…………….
El Jefe
July 23rd, 2010
9:26 am
One question,
How could the NAACP get “snookered” by Fox News, when it was the NAACP’s video of the event, and before Fox reported on it?
I guess the NAACP stepped on their own dingus this time.
Jay
July 23rd, 2010
9:26 am
Jacob, if you post the same self-serving link three times in the same post, you are spamming if not trolling.
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:27 am
Yup, El Jefe, the NAACP and the Obama Administration scewed up…but they admitted it and are trying to repair the damage.
Novel, huh?
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
HDB
July 23rd, 2010
9:16 am
Look…the argument affects both sides of the coin….but the tone and the schism that conservatives create to amplify their position does not help solve the problem. If one also notes how black conservatives are being used by white conservatives to fracture the black community…then a better conversation of race could begin! If conservatives would note how laws like SB 1070 that TARGET minorities and promote racial profiling add to the discourse, then….conversations as to how to solve the issue could commence in earnest!!
++++
OK. Once the conservatives see the world the same way you do then we can start to have conversations as to how to solve the issue.
As a moderate I don’t agree with conservatives or liberals consistently. I don’t believe that everyone should believe the same way as I do. In fact I believe in having converstations with people who disagree with me so I can understand how they feel and why they believe what they believe.
Sherrod dislike white people because her father was killed by white people and based on her recollection the person who killed him escape justice because he was white. Now, I don’t agree with how she felt at the time but I think that is perfectly understandable reaction to what happen to her. Eventually, as time went on and her experiences change and her feelings towards whites changed.
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
Fine, no link -
White people are so AFRAID of people of color. Look at Atlanta: why don’t Cobb or Cherokee want MARTA going up 75? Look at the demographics of this city: 40 years after we elected our first black mayor, the white folks are holed up in North Fulton and the northern suburbs. Do they engage in the process of improving the urban heart of our city? Nope. Not their problem and so South Atlanta’s infrastructure, public education facilities and economic development await the scraps of whatever is left over AFTER North Fulton and the northern suburbs get theirs.
White people don’t really want to talk about the deep-seated issues that surround race in this country. Yes, slavery happened over a century ago. Yes, the civil rights bill did happen. Yes, there have been things like affirmative action to attempt to “equalize” opportunity between the races of this country. But, the fact remains, there are very real residual effects from those centuries of oppression and the subsequent Jim Crow era and the present age of veiled prejudices. White people don’t want to hear that.
neo-Carlinist
July 23rd, 2010
9:30 am
Bruno, you’re walking into a Sherrod-like ambush when you dismiss the Plame outing as “overblown by the left”. you sound like a lawyer in a divorce mediation (I know, I’ve been there… TWICE); one side levies any and all baseless claims to merely trade horses to get “the best deal”. this is what stinks about the two party American dog and pony show. the truth is; the Bush administration ‘cherry-picked’ intel (then threw non-Plame CIA employees under the bus). this was how Bush, Cheney et al “rolled” when it came to using the CIA to further its own skewed political agenda. in many ways, it is no better than the Rah, Emmanuel mantra of “not letting a good crisis go to waste…” why can’t you simply call a spade a spade and admit Cheney and “Scooter” acted in a cowardly and vindictive manner, with NO regard for “national security” or “the war on terror” (all while they were enacting The Patriot Act and pursuing warrantless wiretaps to “protect” America? It seems to me that it wasn’t so much the faux outgrage of the left, but the arrogance of the “checken hawk” right that made the Plame case so vulgar and offensive to any American who truly values freedom or “supports the troops”. I know people who have worked in the intelligence community (analysts and operatives). I went to school in he DC area and any kid whose family lived in McLean, VA or Columbia, MD or Vienna, VA or whose mom or dad “is stationed with the State Department in Lagos, or Beruit, or Honduras” was probably a “spook”. So, to bring this all together, how is what “Scooter” Libby did to Valerie Plame any different than what Obama and Vilsack did to Shirley Sherrod? While the Plame “termination” was more malicious (vis a vis her husband’s NYT editorial questioning war with Iraq), it was no less “political” (as opposed to due to job performance or lack thereof). we need to be able to hold both politicians and journalists to the same standard, and we the People need to look beyond superficial differences and admit there is room for improvement everywhere (not simply on the left or the right)
SPQR(laissez Faire)
July 23rd, 2010
9:31 am
All In all, since I don’t care about race, just ideology, and since this has harmed obama by his own ham handed handling of it, I say right on BREITBART!
Now , investigate sherrods USDA shakedown lawsuit and the government check mill run in albany.
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:32 am
JacobLocke. Most respectfully sir, you are a racist idiot. I’m not “afraid of people of color.” I don’t know any one who is. Keep telling yourself that, it apparently bolsters what little self esteem you have.
As to MARTA? The reason it doesn’t go into the suburbs is because MARTA is run by idiots. Remember Laura Lawson? By electing the welfare queen as the chairman of the board of MARTA, the board lost any inroads it might have gained towards getting support from anyone with brains in the suburbs.
As to Atlanta? You mean your black mayors aren’t helping the black folks of Atlanta and you need us dreaded whitey’s to bail you out? Did you really just say that? Still blaming the white folks for everything eh? (BTW, I live ITP not in the burb’s. My mailing address says Atlanta.)
godless heathen
July 23rd, 2010
9:32 am
Breitbart tricked the administration into firing Ms. Sherrod. Bush tricked all those Democrats in the House and Senate into supporting the Gulf War. Democrats are easily fooled, but we knew that already.
Boots
July 23rd, 2010
9:33 am
I don’t have time to read all the posts and don’t read Jay, or other AJC bloggers ever day. But, I must say the civil, thoughtful content of he first couple of handsful of posts makes me feel good. Didn’t know it was still possible to have civil discourse in American society, digital or otherwise.
ken
July 23rd, 2010
9:34 am
The Truth, I grew up with NBC, CBS and ABC news and print. Looking back, they had an agenda to slant the news also. Power of the TV , pen and money.
jt
July 23rd, 2010
9:34 am
Remember, President Obama is NOT the first black president.
That was Bill Clinton.
President Obama is our first WOMAN president.
See baseball throw.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:34 am
Absolutley Jay!
Del
July 23rd, 2010
9:35 am
If Breitbart knowingly and with malice edited the Shirley Sherrod video, his act would be in my opinion reprehensible. Like many I watched the video in its entirety, knowing beforehand that Ms. Sherrod’s complete message wasn’t racist in nature. She did, however take sometime getting to her point and I could see how someone could easily take that one portion of her speech and conclude that she was making a racist comment without listening to her entire message. Perhaps, Breitbart only heard that portion of her speech where she sounded racist, cut it and released it without understanding where her message was ultimately going. I don’t know but what we do know is that his intention was to counter the NAACP’s vote to brand the Tea Party as a racist organization. Jay’s comment “that race has given some of the opposition to Obama a nasty edge and a passion that at times is out of proportion to its inspiration” is great word smithing but it conveys a partisan message. While, no doubt there are some who dislike Obama because of his race, the far greater majority simply reject his policies apart from racial considerations. Clearly, the left is attempting to introduce race into the equation in hopes of igniting their base for November’s midterm election and that’s reprehensible
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:36 am
jt
July 23rd, 2010
9:34 am
President Obama is our first WOMAN president.
See baseball throw.
LOL jt, THAT was funny. But I’ll bet he could whip your butt in hoops. Pres has a wicked jump shot…..
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:37 am
Lord Help Us..
while I dont agree with Brietbart on this latest issue, If you think for one second that Accorn is not a corrupt org., you’ve lost your mind!
jt
July 23rd, 2010
9:38 am
Fred
Of course he could. White men can’t jump.
Phillopinos either.
jm
July 23rd, 2010
9:39 am
I’m sorry, but the truth still is: if a white person had made the same comments in reverse, it’s likely that the minority community would have been calling for their scalp.
There’s racism on both sides, and a lot of fundamentally false racism claims are being made against the tea party folks. It’s high time it stopped on both sides.
Jay
July 23rd, 2010
9:41 am
I want to echo Boots. I appreciate the tone in which we’ve agreed to disagree this morning.
More please.
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:41 am
Mark, I said nothing at all regarding whether or not ACORN is corrupt. All I said was the Sherrod tape was editied exactly like the ACORN/PIMP video. Interesting that the Sherrod tape was edited very similarly, yet Breitbart claims he did not do any editing.
I think he is lying and I hope that he is sued…
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:41 am
Wow, Fred, didn’t have our coffee yet?
MARTA doesn’t go into Cobb and Cherokee because the county commissions of both adamantly refused to explore trainlines/bus routes into their communities. Calling Laura Lawson a “Welfare Queen” just further illustrates the point. Your experience with people of color doesn’t go beyond vaudevillian stereotypes and caricatures.
And that “great white hope” crap in your last paragraph is just about the biggest chip on a white man’s shoulder, isn’t it. No one is asking for a “bailout.” What’s happening in Atlanta is “good ole boy” politics of the worst sort. And, yes, I’ll blame white folks. White people destroyed Native Americans. White people created the African diaspora. White people destroyed the structure of the African-American family. White people formed the KKK. White people abused the Chinaman, the Irishman, the Sweed, the Jew, the Pole – over the entire history of this great nation, White people have inflicted more damage on the vitality of this nation than any other ethnicity in this great country of ours. However, I’ve yet to meet a white man who is willing to recognize those atrocities and engage in an actual discussion about them.
And I’m “ITP” as well – right in the heart of it.
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
9:42 am
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
Fine, no link -
White people are so AFRAID of people of color. Look at Atlanta: why don’t Cobb or Cherokee want MARTA going up 75? Look at the demographics of this city: 40 years after we elected our first black mayor, the white folks are holed up in North Fulton and the northern suburbs. Do they engage in
+++++++++++++++++++++
I don’t know if you realize it but Cobb has it’s own transit system which links to MARTA. GRTA also goes to Cobb.
Why is it racism for Cobb to relinquish control of their transit system to MARTA?
RF
July 23rd, 2010
9:43 am
Mark- yeah, Acorn is corrupt because Fox News said it was….which is why it lost all government funding, so what’s left of it anyway? Breitbart either knowingly edited the video to suit his needs or accepted an edited version as truth without fact-checking. Either way, he’s a fool and proved his corruption in a very public way without the help of a “pimp”…
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
While I still dont believe she should ahve been fired(for this)…technicaly she could have been fired for violating the Hatch Act
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Hatch Act.
The Hatch Act of 1939 is a United States federal law whose main provision is to prohibit federal employees (civil servants) from engaging in partisan political activity
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:37 am
Lord Help Us..
while I dont agree with Brietbart on this latest issue, If you think for one second that Accorn is not a corrupt org., you’ve lost your mind!
+++++++++++
Now HERE is the root of the problem with having a discussion about race, or differing political views.
Mark says he doesn’t agree with Briebart, but then turns around and implies it’s ok though because of ACORN. That is EXACTLY how these discussion go. They quickly turn into the “he touched me first” argument that two 5 years old play in the backseat of a car on a long trip. ANy meaningful dialog is quickly buried and the original topic is lost in the pile of poop that gets shoveled deeper and deeper.
Note: I’m not singling you out persay Mark, it’s just your post was a perfect and SHORT example. I could have picked any of dozens on this blog alone, yours was just handy and as I said SHORT.
Ninja
July 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
Hey Bruno, if it’s any consolation, I’ve got two interviews today and more responses in the last week then I’ve had in the last two years combined. And that’s in Michigan, so take heart. Or better yet, find a way to strike out on your own.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
Lord Help Us…fair enough
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
Fred…I never said it was ok because of Accorn..those words never came out of my mouth nor did I imply that
neo-Carlinist
July 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
Jacob Locke, you are so full of s**t it it coming out of your ears. I am a “white people” who has lived in Atlanta since 1989. I lived in Buckhead between ‘89-99 and I purchased a home in a southside neighborhood in ‘99. The “black” leadership that has run Atlanta for the past 40 years is just as corrupt and self-serving as any white leadership. Do you live in Atlanta? Are you getting bang for your buck in terms of your property taxes (education, police,). did you not just receive your Solid Waste tax bill ($88 add-on for “recyling”). How ’bout your July water bill (12% increase on top of the highest water rates of ANY major city). have you been following the “Airport concessions” trial? Does the name Bill Campbell mean anything to you? this isn’t a “black/white” thing, and it has nothing to do with “racism”. Politicians are politicians. they don’t see race. You just set this blog back 25 years.
Don't forget
July 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
The majority of Americans describe themselves as moderates (about 57%) which suggests they don’t buy into the ideology of either party completely. The extremists know this and realize they cannot accomplish their agenda without deceiving the public and discrediting the opposition. The extremists also put much more energy and effort into the political process, again, because they know thy cannot completely win an argument and would have to compromise if they simply debated an issue. In other words the strategy is divide and conquer. The left is no better than the right generally speaking over time but the side that is out of power tends to be the more aggressive and the right outnumbers the left by about 33% to 20%.
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:48 am
Jacob, I’ll let your biased, racist rant stand as it is. It deserves no comment. Power to the people.
Big D
July 23rd, 2010
9:49 am
Jacob, do you really think what you are saying really reverberates with anybody?
Whites being scared of Blacks when the community is mostly Black and every window has burglar bars on them… GAM ..the Blacks are scared of each other, do you think those bars are for keeping the KKK out???. Get over being Black or what ever color you are, this kind of rhetoric is what we want to Die….
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:50 am
Wow…ACORN ’suspected’ of being corrupt and costing the taxpayers a few million causes right-wing hysteria and days on end of ‘pimping’ (pardon the pun) the story on FOX.
Hallibuton and are found to have perpetrated $BILLIONS of fraud and, if you watched FOX, you might not ever know it.
No credibility…
A CONSERVATIVE
July 23rd, 2010
9:50 am
JAY…You are giving Andrew Nreitbart way too much credit in the saga…Jay is saying the all powerful president of the United States…made a harsh decision/ rush to judgment…. based on a video Breitbard posted on line…Breitbard had nothing to do with the decision to fire SHERROD..that was Obama’s decision alone
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
9:51 am
However, I’ve yet to meet a white man who is willing to recognize those atrocities and engage in an actual discussion about them.
++++++++++++++
Uh! I have meet alot of white people who recognize those atrocities. Also, I thought that is one of thing white conservatives complain about liberals was that they were always pointing out the negatives of what white people had done and not the positives.
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:51 am
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
Fred…I never said it was ok because of Accorn..those words never came out of my mouth nor did I imply that
++++++++++
Oh really? Then what was your motivation for bring them up in your comment? What logical conclusion was one supposed to reach? you just inadvertently strung two unrelated phases together with a comma?
jm
July 23rd, 2010
9:52 am
Jay –
“So Mark, do you also think we need to highlight the KKK, Stormfront.org, etc.? Do Sarah Palin and Mitch McConnell need to go before the cameras to denounce those groups, just so we know they don’t agree with them?”
I think the answer is “yes” to the first question, and “no” to the second. Racism, as it still exists, should be reported on and the perpetrators exposed for being the cowards they are. Of course, on the flip side, I do think racism in general is less common these days, so over-reporting these incidents can lead to the impression of a greater racial divide that there actually is. That would obviously be a negative outcome.
As to your second question, people should be left to their own devices as to whether something should be denounced. People can judge leaders by their silence or response using their own common sense.
USinUK
July 23rd, 2010
9:53 am
“based on a video Breitbart posted on line…Breitbart had nothing to do with the decision to fire SHERROD..that was Vilsack’s decision alone”
there ya go. typos fixed, free of charge.
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:54 am
@ModerateLine – I’m speaking about a train line.
@neo-Carlinist – I’m guessing your name is a tribute to George Carlin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJmYnHdvsc
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
9:54 am
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:50 am
Hallibuton and are found to have perpetrated $BILLIONS of fraud and, if you watched FOX, you might not ever know it.
+++++++++++
What is your point? This pertains to race relations and race discussions HOW? Why are you bringing up the company that President Clinton used in Bosnia with no bid contract? Wasn’t that a long time ago? We are 2 Presidents and almost 3 terms PAST Bill Clinton………
Van Jones
July 23rd, 2010
9:56 am
“born and raised in the Jim Crow South and who lost her father in a murder supposedly committed by a white neighbor who was never prosecuted.”
Got any facts about this “murder” or does presenting it this way defend the heroine of the story better? Ever hear of journalistic integrity?
neo-Carlinist
July 23rd, 2010
9:56 am
Mark, nice pull on “the Hatch Act”. does the Hatch Act acknowledge that the Executive Branch (White House/West Wing) and Legislative Branch (Congress and Senate) are “federal employees” and “civil servants” (politicians LOVE to put that title on their business cards). and in the irony of all ironies, the law was drafted, passed and signed by “partisans” from both sides. you getting this? OR, maybe they were saying (as always), well, we’re mostly talking about the little people… you know, the people we were elected to REPRESENT. you and I should engage in partisan political debate, not the dipsh*ts in DC. they should “uphold and defend the Constitution” which last time I checked does not contain the words Liberal or Conservative.
@@
July 23rd, 2010
9:58 am
I’ve always viewed Obama as bi-racial. After reminding everyone of that several times, I even went so far as to say his incompetence could be blamed on his white genes, mom jeans…
I don’t care.
Incompetence is incompetence. Inexperience is inexperience. Extreme left is extreme left.
Refusing to anticipate the unintended consequences of his economic policies will leave us ALL wanting.
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:58 am
Fred, ‘What is your point?’
My point is that FOX, the channel that pimped the ACORN/PIMP video for days on end and ALSO pimped the Sherrod video for days on end…has NO credibility…
jt
July 23rd, 2010
9:58 am
“The Hatch Act of 1939 is a United States federal law whose main provision is to prohibit federal employees (civil servants) from engaging in partisan political activity”
Silly Mark.
Obeying laws is sooooooo 20th century.
Get with the program.
USinUK
July 23rd, 2010
9:59 am
Van – are you saying that her father wasn’t murdered? wasn’t murdered by white men? what?
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:59 am
@BigD – and where does crime originate? Are criminals born or are they created? If you answered with the former, you just show your ignorance about human nature and the impact of one’s environment on his or her behavior.
@neo-Carlinist – here’s a better one:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2333410/george_carlin_on_white_people/
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
10:01 am
Van Jones
July 23rd, 2010
9:56 am
Got any facts about this “murder” or does presenting it this way defend the heroine of the story better? Ever hear of journalistic integrity?
++++++++
I don’t think we need to ask if you watched the unedited video of Sherrod now do we Van Jones? I say that because had you watched the video, you would know where those “facts” came from. Even if you have a short attention span and couldn’t stay with all 43 minutes, Sherrod mentions that event from her life very early in her speech.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:01 am
Fred, my motivation was that I was responding to a post by Lord Help Us @ 9:24…I didnt bring the subject of Acorn up
RF
July 23rd, 2010
10:03 am
@Fred: “They quickly turn into the “he touched me first” argument that two 5 years old play in the backseat of a car on a long trip. ANy meaningful dialog is quickly buried and the original topic is lost in the pile of poop that gets shoveled deeper and deeper.”
Well said!!
jm
July 23rd, 2010
10:03 am
Jacob Locke – ignoring your political comments for the time being (I think Reed’s great, past mayors have been awful), let me respond to this paragraph:
“And that “great white hope” crap in your last paragraph is just about the biggest chip on a white man’s shoulder, isn’t it. No one is asking for a “bailout.” What’s happening in Atlanta is “good ole boy” politics of the worst sort. And, yes, I’ll blame white folks. White people destroyed Native Americans. White people created the African diaspora. White people destroyed the structure of the African-American family. White people formed the KKK. White people abused the Chinaman, the Irishman, the Sweed, the Jew, the Pole – over the entire history of this great nation, White people have inflicted more damage on the vitality of this nation than any other ethnicity in this great country of ours. However, I’ve yet to meet a white man who is willing to recognize those atrocities and engage in an actual discussion about them.”
I’m white. And yes, the white people did all of that. Of course, Irish, Sweeds, Jews and Poles are essentially white, but let’s ignore that for a moment too. The question is, do past disgraceful actions by the white community absolve the black community of taking responsibility for their own current problems (economic, safety, family)? I would argue no. Is it an uphill battle the black community faces? Yes. Are they making lots of progress? In my opinion, hell yes.
So yes, the white community (in the past, not so much the present) is guilty of a lot of abuses of power, deception, etc. Is the current generation responsible for this? Sometimes (some inherited wealth is built on the abuse of previous generations, but most wealth is not). So should we have reparations? No. Should both communities do whatever they can to help each other? Yes.
And perhaps the white community (whatever that really means) deserves some applause also for the development and spread of a lot of human rights as well. Starting with Magna Carta and carrying through to the American Revolution. And if you want to give some credit to this snowball effect, one might carry this through to the modern day liberation of Iraq (of course, it ain’t all white folks paying for the war or fighting the war).
I’m done for now. Work would be a good idea.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:03 am
Not to be rude but maybe you should stay out of other people’s conversations
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
10:04 am
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
9:44 am
While I still dont believe she should ahve been fired(for this)…technicaly she could have been fired for violating the Hatch Act
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Hatch Act.
The Hatch Act of 1939 is a United States federal law whose main provision is to prohibit federal employees (civil servants) from engaging in partisan political activity
++++++++++++
The Hatch Act only prohibits certain politcal activity not ALL. The purpose of the Hatch Act is to protect federal employess from being forced into partisan activities. I was disappointe when Sherrod when it brought to her attention did not know if she was in violation of this law. She was not but at her level she should have know the law but after what she has been through I think she can deserves a mulligan.
Employees may**, for example:
register and vote as they choose
assist in voter registration drives
express opinions about candidates and issues
contribute money to political organizations
attend political fundraising functions
attend and be active at political rallies and meetings
join and be active members of a political party or club
sign and circulate nominating petitions
campaign for or against referendum questions, constitutional amendments and/or municipal ordinances
campaign for or against candidates in partisan elections
make campaign speeches for candidates in partisan elections
distribute campaign literature in partisan elections
campaign for and hold office in political clubs or parties
volunteer to work on a partisan political campaign
participate in any activity not specifically prohibited by law or regulation
**While engaging in these activities employees must be acting in their personal capacity, not their official capacity. For example, they should not identify their official title when engaging in any of these activities.
http://www.osc.gov/haStateLocalexamplePermittedActivities.htm
These federal employees may:
register and vote as they choose
assist in voter registration drives
express opinions about candidates and issues
participate in campaigns where none of the candidates represent a political party
contribute money to political organizations or attend political fund raising functions
attend political rallies and meetings
join political clubs or parties
sign nominating petitions
campaign for or against referendum questions, constitutional amendments, municipal ordinances
TaxPayer
July 23rd, 2010
10:04 am
Breitbart posted a deceptive video. Vilsack and the Obama administration reacted by wrongfully “firing” Ms. Sherrod. Vilsack and the Obama administration, after examining the whole truth surrounding the allegations of racism, recognized their mistakes and apologized and offered to make amends. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Breitbart, although now armed with the whole truth, is still elated with his behavior and, apparently, by the sounds of silence (if only), so are his co-horts on the right.
RF
July 23rd, 2010
10:05 am
“The Hatch Act of 1939 is a United States federal law whose main provision is to prohibit federal employees (civil servants) from engaging in partisan political activity”
So how is a woman addressing a gathering of the NAACP and discussing her growth and learning a “partisan” political activity? If anything, she showed folks in that room, and the nation as a whole now, how she overcame her partisan feelings. Dots not connecting here…
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
10:05 am
Lord Help Us
July 23rd, 2010
9:58 am
My point is that FOX, the channel that pimped the ACORN/PIMP video for days on end and ALSO pimped the Sherrod video for days on end…has NO credibility…
++++++++++
Ah, got you. I’ll agree with that wholeheartedly. I came to that conclusion very early on in their attempt to be a ‘news” channel. They aired stories that where exactly that, stories. They had no facts or rushed to the air before they could check their sources. i didn’t watch them enough to know if they were right wing slanted or left wing slanted. I decided they were more National Inquirer slanted. Although that is an insult to the NI, THEY at least have actually broken a couple of big stories that were true……….
getalife
July 23rd, 2010
10:06 am
They will take their hate to their graves.
If you talk to the younger generation, you would see more tolerance and that is the future of this country.
Moderate Line
July 23rd, 2010
10:06 am
JacobLocke
July 23rd, 2010
9:54 am
@ModerateLine – I’m speaking about a train line.
@neo-Carlinist – I’m guessing your name is a tribute to George Carlin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJmYnHdvsc
++++++++++++++++++++++
Uh! So since Cobb county has a bus system instead of a train they are a bunch of racist? Hmmm!
neo-Carlinist
July 23rd, 2010
10:07 am
Jacob, I’ve read everything Carlin has ever written (including personal correspondence to me), and viewed just about every one of his performances. That said, he was a writer, actor, comedian and entertainer. He was just as apt to highlight the hypocrisy of whites or liberals as he was blacks or conservatives – in my opinion, he simply felt the historical “body of work” offered by white conservatives was too rich not to mine. your knowledge of Carlin is about as solid as your take on Atlanta’s demographic/racial dynamic.
RW-(the original)
July 23rd, 2010
10:08 am
My point is that FOX, the channel that pimped the ACORN/PIMP video for days on end and ALSO pimped the Sherrod video for days on end
LHU,
Fox hadn’t even aired a single segment concerning this video before Sherrod was fired, but don’t let facts get in the way of your hysteria.
josef nix
July 23rd, 2010
10:09 am
Reasonably well written and thoughtful essay and it has brought out some interesting comments.
However, once again the atavists keep on keeping on with the black-white dichotomy and in so doing miss the point completely. Racism is not a black-white issue and nothing more. In between there are yellow, red and brown and, quite frankly as Jay has pointed out before, the red really isn’t an issue around here. Maybe not in some houses, but it is here.
I was scrolling through here and passing on some of the more intriguing comments to Unmentionable whose first comment was, “oh, go on back to that bunch of malcontents you hang out with and quit interrupting my reading.” When I insisted he said, “remember that Paracelsus quote you like so much? Well excuse me if I just sit over in my assigned corner out of sight and out of mind and you go listen to the meae culpae of the wh*res discussing chastity.”
Why, I wanted to know, do you not bring it up. “Oh, you’ll do that for me and you can deal with they don’t give a sh*t what I think, never have and never will and right now I’ve got other things to do than look for a little meat on the bone they might throw the doggie…woof. woof and let me get back to more important things.”
“Like what?” “My spy novel…see, the counter spy has just flown in from Chile and what he doesn’t know is…”
So, there’s the contribution from the corner…
BRUNO
Good to see you back! Looking forward to you reports on navel contemplation and change of focus…
jt
Federosexual? I don’t care who you are, thass funny!
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:09 am
Well I came to that conclusion when she bashed the Bush admin….maybe I was wrong on that one
Regina Lanier
July 23rd, 2010
10:11 am
Beautifully said, Jay.
Fred
July 23rd, 2010
10:11 am
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:03 am
Not to be rude but maybe you should stay out of other people’s conversations
+++++++++++
but this is a COMMUNITY conversation. If you want a private conversation use email, IM, or a phone. This is a BLOG. In a blog a comment or opinion is posted for the entire blog community to see and respond to. Don’t go getting all petulant on us now and acting aggrieved. Likewise, if you are talking loudly in public on your cell phone forcing all around you to become a party to your “private” conversation, expect someone to comment on it.
you seem to be a tad bit lost about the dynamics of a blog………
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:12 am
Taxpayer, im amused that people are still blaming Fox News…Do you think they were the only news source to run the edited tape..and I do recall Glenn Beck defending her from day one, and O’Rielly apoligizing
HDB
July 23rd, 2010
10:13 am
Moderate Line July 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
“OK. Once the conservatives see the world the same way you do then we can start to have conversations as to how to solve the issue.”
No….not what I meant! My point is that conservatives deny that their policies and their inflections aren’t the source of the problem; they feel that only progressive policies are the root cause of racism. What conservatives need to realize is that political conservatism is somewhat based in racist ideology…starting from the 1964 Dixiecrat invasion of the GOP…progressing to the 1968 Nixonian “Southern Strategy”….accelerating in Reagan’s 1980 support of “states’ rights” in the South!! Many also lay blame at LBJ’s feet with the passage of the “Great Society”…and use it as the cause of the demise of the black family. To a point, that is also true!!
“As a moderate I don’t agree with conservatives or liberals consistently. I don’t believe that everyone should believe the same way as I do. In fact I believe in having converstations with people who disagree with me so I can understand how they feel and why they believe what they believe. ”
No argument there….what many white people need to understand is that the preponderance of black people DO have conservative beliefs…education, solid work ethic, family….but too many view them in the MINORITY…which is not true!! The big problem is that politically, the GOP is NOT a viable option for the black vote….for the GOP does not want to address certain black issues honestly!! I’ve noted how those who disagree with conservative idiom (i.e., Colin Powell) get treated in the GOP. As Colin Powell stated: “I didn’t leave the party….the party left ME!”
Big D – Good points!! Well said!!
JohnnyReb
July 23rd, 2010
10:13 am
“The political standoff that exists in Washington today would exist even if Obama looked and talked like Mitt Romney, because it is based on honest differences of policy and ideology, not race.”
It is true someone looking like Romney with Obama’s ideology might do the same as has Obama, but the real Romney would not.
Obama is a black radical with enough sense not to act like the black panthers, and while his agenda may be aimed at other races he considers to have been wronged by the white man, it is clearly based on Obama being indoctrinated his whole life by people like Jereamiah Wright.
All of Obama’s big legislative pieces force money from those who have it to be spread to those who do not.
This country put a radical in the white house and we are paying for it, at least until November.
Mark
July 23rd, 2010
10:14 am
Im not confused at all, but if your going to comment on something , no what your talkling about..you obviously didnt realize I was responding to someone else, and by so, wrongly accused me of something I didnt say
USinUK
July 23rd, 2010
10:15 am
jo nix … I prefer naval contemplation