Should soldiers’ attitudes drive Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell decision? Based on Harry Truman’s example, the answer’s no
The Pentagon has commissioned a survey of more than 400,000 service members, available here, to test morale and other issues,including their reaction to a potential abolition of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy toward gay service members.
“If the law changes and we are told to implement it — and we will, if the law changes — then how do we do this in a way that makes sense?” Gates told soldiers in Korea this week. “How do we identify beforehand the problems, the issues and the challenges that we’re going to face? The kind of training requirements we’re going to need, the kinds of changes in regulations, the impact on benefits — all of these things need to be addressed in advance.”
The proposed policy change has been compared by gay-rights advocates to the historic decision by President Harry Truman in 1948 to desegregate the military. However, defenders of DADT reject that comparison and argue that Congress and the president should be guided on such matters by the sentiments of those who actually wear the uniform.
As it turns out, however, the military also surveyed its members prior to Truman’s decision, and the sentiment among troops at the time was overwhelmingly opposed to desegregation. (H/t Think Progress).
For example, one poll surveyed 2,360 white enlisted personnel in three Army divisions stationed in the South, with results broken down by the soldiers’ region of origin (North, South or Border States). It found that opposition to desegregation was strong and crossed all regional boundaries.
“White enlisted men from the North show a strong prejudice against sharing recreation, theatre or post exchange facilities with Negroes,” it found. “As would be expected, the white enlisted men from the Border States show a stronger dislike for sharing facilities with Negroes than do the Northerners, and the white enlisted men from the South show the strongest dislike at all.” (An example of the questions and reports is printed below).
Truman nonetheless decided to end segregation, a step that earned him a place of honor in civil rights history. His decision may have been influenced by other Army surveys, conducted with white officers and non-commissioned officers who had commanded black combat troops in the European Theater during WWII (a sample is also reprinted below).
Sixty-four percent of the white soldiers said they had initially opposed serving in a company that included “colored platoons,” but 77 percent said that attitude had changed for the better after actual service. In fact, fewer than 1 percent of the white soldiers reported that the colored platoons had performed poorly in combat, with more than 80 percent reporting they had done very well. Almost nine out of 10 reported that black troops had performed as well as if not better than white soldiers.
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427 comments Add your comment
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2010
10:01 pm
red,
That’s nothing like the battles at safety patrol camp down in Cordele.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:01 pm
If Del comes back to take a poll, put me down in favor of repealing DADT. Let’s move forward.
Josef,
I caught a Rick Sanchez interview on CNN today with a self-avowed “National Socialist” who has taken it upon himself to travel to Arizona to “protect the border”. Rick queried, “So, according to your group, you want all non-whites to leave American? And you also do not want Jews or homosexuals here, right?” Said the nazi, “Yes.” “Well, I was born outside of the US, my skin is browner than yours, and my last name is Hispanic. You want me to leave, too.” The nazi answered, “Yes. The Japanese and North Koreans have their homeland, why shouldn’t whites? We came here with our guns to found this country.”
Hmmm. Wonder if he wants to rename the country Whiteland.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2010
10:01 pm
SOAB….exiled again
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
10:02 pm
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
9:11 pm
Fred,
It’s worse for me. I have relatives who were jarheads.
Brother, I wouldn’t have told THAT…………. Don’t ask don’t tell lol.
And with that, I’m gone. I have been summoned by SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed, AKA the WIFE).
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:03 pm
josef,
With all due respect wrong…or at least partially to be fair. Infantry, which of course is vital to our military superiority is a far different culture than most here could ever imagine. It’s true that many can serve and yes honorably in other military capacities and never understand that culture. Been there done that for more years than I would care to remember but can’t forget and to this very day I keep in touch, to ever concede my argument to those who don’t know.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:07 pm
Fred:
You were in the Army right?
BADA BING:
Yep, it’s a pretty nice base and reminds you of the old days. When I was a kid I play in the Chicamauga Battlefield Park near Ft. Oglethorpe.
By the way, do any of you Army guys know what Ft. Oglethorpe is famous for?
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:08 pm
Del:
Exactly. BTW, I wonder if the Taliban has DADT ?
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:09 pm
I bet those Navy guys like to “hot bunk” on those submarines.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:11 pm
Scout,
Check out my 9:10 to HD, if you will. Its a little Air Force humor.
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
10:12 pm
I lied I guess, I’m not gone quite yet:
@Del: If you are infantry, then you know what a REMF is. If you ain’t infantry then you ain’t……… poop. (that word just doesn’t convey the meaning but it gets by the auto snagger).
Planes can bomb it, tanks can roll over it, but until you’ve got a grunt on the ground HOLDING it, it ain’t yours. Everyone else supports the Infantry. We ARE the Queen of battle.
Funny how the Infantry motto, “the queen of battle” fits so neatly in this discussion of fags in the military isn’t it? Do you think that whoever coined the motto was a homosexual or a chess player? Or perhaps both…….
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:12 pm
Eyes,
I didn’t ask that question, I asked for a roll call of those who’ve actually served. You have, in the Air Force, so okay you’ve weighed in with your opinion but you haven’t served in a combat infantry unit. There is a cultural difference.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:14 pm
Scout,
You know those Navy P-coats looked pretty cool. Those Marine dress uniforms look pretty slick, but kind of remind me of The Ohio State marching band uniforms.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:14 pm
Del
Again, with all due respect and you know I mean that sincerely and not just as the catch phrase, I merely quote my boy…Bosnia, Kossovo, two tours Iraq including Shock and Awe and one in Afghanistan…IED disposal…
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:15 pm
theyeshavit:
HA! HA! We used to do the same thing only we sent our newbies for a “tent stretcher”.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
10:15 pm
josef:
you left behind you…
Were you talking to yourself?
J/K
G’nite.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:16 pm
For all of you dog faces out there, I’m betting you can’t listen to this with a dry eye. This jarhead couldn’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwiCUzuUDDw
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
10:16 pm
Scout, yeah, I was Army. No I don’t know what Fort Oglethorpe is famous for, but I DO know that if I don’t leave this computer immediately my wife is gonna cut off “Oscar and the Dangling Boys” whilst I sleep.
Echo Six out, this channel is clear.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:17 pm
theyeshaveit :
You know, I still have my dress blues but I always like the dress green better.
red
July 22nd, 2010
10:19 pm
Del,
If service is key to having a say on DADT, shouldn’t you give the same reverence to a man who’s made love to another man, so based upon your prerequisite for experience, homosexual servicemen should decide the fate of DADT.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:19 pm
Scout, No been in the box (sub’s) and the ships crew were great guy’s. We slept most of the time and they would come off watch and taps us on the shoulder, we would move into the rack being vacated and back to zuluville Had my first taste of lobster on the mess decks open 24/7. Was “H” going back to C’s
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:20 pm
eyes
The out and out nazi lot don’t concern me any more than the new Black Panthers…I am far more concerned with those who would never have the chutzpah to be so bold but who share their sentiments to the core…and more and more their line of thought is gaining legitimacy…
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 22nd, 2010
10:21 pm
Planes can bomb it, tanks can roll over it, but until you’ve got a grunt on the ground HOLDING it, it ain’t yours.
This is slightly off-topic but I think the above statement is very true. That’s where we’ve run into trouble in nearly every conflict since WWII. If you aren’t willing to take and inflict the casualties that go with holding territory, you don’t need to be there. That’s my $.02.
And for the record, I think I’ve said this before but in case I haven’t, I was going up to be drafted the year after the draft ended. By that point everybody knew how that was going to turn out. I ain’t gonna lie; I didn’t want to go but if I had been called, I would have gone. Don’t think I could live with myself, if I didn’t go when called, knowing somebody else went and possibly died in my place. That’s how I see it.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:21 pm
Del,
No, of course, I have not been in a combat infantry unit. But I am not so sure that the infantry reserves a culture unique to itself. Also, as josef says, it’s a new generation out there. I have some cousins and second cousins considerably younger than I am. There’s Eric (Marines, Afghanistan) his brother Kevin (Marines and then Army for two more years), second cousin Natalie (Navy SP), and her brother Andy (Air Force). They’re all out now, I believe. it would be interesting to hear what they think about DADT.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:22 pm
Fred:
O.K. but if you see this tomorrow, it was the home base for the last official U.S. “Horse” Calvary unit in the Army. I think it was active right up until 1942 when they gave up the horses and went mechanized. If I am not mistaken, it was the 6th Cavalry. Once a year they would take the big “ride” on their mounts from there down to one of the bases here in Atlanta via all of the dirt backroads in West Georgia.
That would have been neat to see.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:24 pm
josef,
You have a son serving in harms way, I would never discredit him or you as his parent…God Bless. I speak only from my own experience.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:26 pm
Eyes,
A culture unique to itself…yes it does.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:27 pm
I think some of you folks need to realize that serving in the U.S. military is not a RIGHT.
There are many reasons people are excluded for the “good” of the military. The sexual preference issue/problem area is just one (some guy who “came out” today got discharged).
Other issues are age, body fat, weight, height, shoe size, education, criminal record, drug usage, medical issues (some of which are fine but the military just doesn’t want to have to deal with them), etc., etc.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:28 pm
DEl
“I speak only from my own experiences.”
And that is how it should be.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:30 pm
Scout
Okay, Bud, look at the IDF and remember what it means when you and I say “never again.”
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:30 pm
Uh Oh ! Great Article from Canada …………………
Headline: “Wake up, America: Democrats aren’t Democrats Anymore, They’re Communists”
Wake up, America: Democrats aren’t Democrats Anymore, They’re Communists
jt
July 22nd, 2010
10:30 pm
War sux.
but it sure keeps a bunch of country boys busy.
I’m agin it when people like Dodd, Frank, Cheney, are involved. F them.
But anyhoo, I think of Hillbilly with this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvaEJzoaYZk&feature=avmsc2
Good night.
seth
July 22nd, 2010
10:36 pm
War is proof that Man is no more evolved then a colony of ants battling over a driveway.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:36 pm
josef:
Not sure I get your exact point.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:37 pm
Scout,
Being a gay soldier is not at all like being physically unable to perform one’s military duties. When I was in basic, there were some fatsos who had to be the runner ahead of our squad to the chow hall. Out of shape people caught a lot of flack, but they got trained anyway. Now, the gays were summarily (even though they probably could could have kicked the chow hall runner’s butt) discharged. There were so many (many who might have proven themselves in the Air Force, but we’ll never know). How do I know all this? Well, one night, I was one of two fellows in the squadron assigned to guard the barracks where the people being discharged were staying. The bottom floor was all gay and the top floor was occupied by the mental people (I never ever went upstairs). I figure there were about 40 gay guys in that barracks at all times.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:38 pm
seth:
Just for that you are awarded my favorite quote:
“When civilized man can no longer stand the horror of war and refuses to fight, then he will surely be killed or enslaved by the uncivilized who can.” Author Unknown
You are welcome.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:40 pm
eyes:
I hear you but the military is still not a “RIGHT”. As I said before, there are many people the military don’t take (not because they couldn’t) but because they plain old just don’t want to deal with it (odd shoe sizes for example).
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:41 pm
Okay, got a WWII story with a twist to scout and Hillbilly
When we went into WWII Daddy’s Daddy came to Mama and brought her 500 lbs of sugar, among other thihgs he remembered having been rationed in the Great War…when rationing set in every moonshiner three counties around came calling to see if she’d “spare some sugar.” Mama said every time she’d say, “why you tell (and she’d say the wife’s name) I’ll be more than happy to share a couple of pounds and don’t even think about payin’ me anything…”
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:41 pm
eyes:
I really don’t see how they were able to pick them out in the Air Force anyway ?
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:41 pm
JUST KIDDING !!!!
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:43 pm
Scout,
Honestly, I do not know the answer to that. But I do know that during the induction physical some guys would FAKE being gay in hopes of getting out of military service.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:43 pm
josef:
JUST FOR YOU !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbSkCKlrHU&feature=related
JuneBaby
July 22nd, 2010
10:43 pm
I served from 1975-1981 and never saw an incident between gays and non-gays. Sure there was always jokes made about gays, just as there were in the world(the states), but i never saw or heard about an incident between gay soldiers and non gays. Actually, there were very few racial disagreements also, much fewer than in the world, and for the most part they were simple misunderstandings, and few and far between. The military really was the melting pot america strives so hard to be. i saw far more cultural disagreements, and none that were serious, than racial or homosexual disagreements. i wish the civilian world got along as well as the people in the american armed forces.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:44 pm
eyes:
Sure ……….. happened a lot during the Vietnam draft.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:44 pm
Scout,
Damn you, Scout, and I gave you a serious response! Karma gonna get you, man.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:46 pm
Scout
When push comes to shove (no Freudian intended!) and there’s only 7 million of you against 250 million of them pledged to your utter anihilation, such luxuries as DADT don’t mean sh*t…the IDF recognizes that and yore nellie gay b*tt or butch d*ke a33 is brought right up in there with all the rest…
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:46 pm
JuneBaby:
You hit it at a good time. From roughly 1969 to 1973 it was a disaster. The military had real problems.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 22nd, 2010
10:46 pm
Josef
I wasn’t around then, of course, but I know plenty of folks who always seemed to be able to sugar during WWII.
My Grandpa had quit making liquor by that time but two things he always cussed were “sugar liquor” and “steam liquor”. He believed in the old way and if he ever had a still bigger than 50 gallons, I’d be surprised. Things were done differently in his day. People around here still talk about how two of his aunts were the best brandy makers, anywhere around here. One of them died before I was born but I remember the other one, pretty well.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
10:46 pm
Scout/eyes,
Damn it sounds like eyes, is describing the “fat boy’s” platoon or worse yet “motivation platoon” I didn’t ever see “gay platoon” though. I remember Parris Island had “Disney Land” that would be 3rd Bn., The Twilight zone, that would be 2nd. Bn. and “Dodge City” and that would be 1st. Bn. The Drill Instructors would hold thump call in each one.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:47 pm
eyes ………………
josef: That’s different as they have “compulsary” service. We have plenty without that. If it ever got that bad here, I’d be arming anything that could shoot.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:50 pm
Del:
Nope ……… no gay platoon. The Navy doctors weeded all of them out the second day.
Just “The Fat Farm”, “The Casualty Platoon” and the “Motivation Platoon” (which was pretty ugly what they did to those guys – mostly draftees. They were happy to get back to a regular platoon).
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:50 pm
Scout
@ 10:43
jt
July 22nd, 2010
10:51 pm
“I really don’t see how they were able to pick them out in the Air Force anyway ?”
Ha Ha.
Anyhoo, it is all about……………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5KqEQvgYyk&feature=related
seth
July 22nd, 2010
10:52 pm
Scout,
These qoutes must be in your bottom 2:
“I abhor war and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind.” Thomas Jefferson
“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” James Madison
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:53 pm
eyesjosef:
You should be proud. The Army Air Force had the “Enola GAY” ……………
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:54 pm
OH, MY GOODNESS ……………………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:54 pm
Scout,
But Josef has a point. Those IDF fellows can fight.
Del,
Actually, I loved the physical part of basic training (not like the army or marines I am sure), but it was the dam marching (I march like Gomer Pyle) and reporting and all that I disliked. I was a track athlete in high school (88o yard run) and came in first running the mile in my brogans. I also really wanted to take the obstacle course home with me, it was so much fun. And learning how to use an M16 (I know you guys called it an AR15, right) was all right.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:55 pm
Scout
So I guess we’re fine and dandy and fit for service when your a33 is against the wall, but otherwise know our place and don’t raise a stink, shut up and go away? Excuse me if I find that a bit, well…what’s the word I’m looking for? A crock of sh*t?
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
10:55 pm
Scout,
Your karma account has maxed out!
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:56 pm
josef:
Tell seth not to get me riled up …………. he’ll regret it ! I’m starting to breathe harder right now !
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:57 pm
josef:
That’s why gays should be allowed to serve ………. under DADT !
Final Answer …….. and the answer is ……………. YES !
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 22nd, 2010
10:59 pm
but it was the dam marching
Daddy still breaks out cussing, anytime he hears John Phillip Sousa music.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:59 pm
eyes ………..
I’m sorry, I have to ………. but if your obstacle course was fun …….. well, enough said.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
10:59 pm
Scout
The Enola Gay always did catch my fancy! Drop a Gay Bomb on yore breeder b*tt you mess with me!
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
10:59 pm
eyes:
Did you guys have to do your runs with your arms out like you were flying ?
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:01 pm
Scout, Josef,
I remember something from Basic now….
We were marching one way and a WAF squadron was marching in the opposite direction. We were eyeballing each other best we could when suddenly we heard the WAF TI scream out, “That’s right, ladies. There is a hundred miles of dick on this base, and you’re not going to get an inch!”
But maybe they didn’t want to? Hmmm.
Hillbilly Deluxe
July 22nd, 2010
11:03 pm
Wasn’t the Enola Gay named for Paul Tibbets’ mother?
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:03 pm
Scout
Yeah, but scr*w your DADT! IDF don’t need it…and they’ll take you on 36-1 and not blink an eye…
Folks used to say Jews couldn’t fight, too…
seth
Don’t get Scout riled…it ain’t pleasant!
Del
July 22nd, 2010
11:03 pm
@10:43,
I remember being a brand spanking new Marine at Camp Lejeune, N.C. in 1961, when one of the salts in my rifle platoon invited us up to his folks place in Mt. Holly, N.C. where we drank white lightning from a fruit jar never got so wasted until Okinawa and Japanese whiskey.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:04 pm
Scout,
That is what the jarheads did hanging out like silly knuckleheads out of their barracks windows the day the Air Force football team beat those Marines.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
July 22nd, 2010
11:04 pm
Could you be more boring? Who cares? Where’s you outrage on the number of soldiers killed in Afganastan this year. Oh, remember this NObama gem?
•Quote: “I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war….You can take that to the bank!”
mmm, mmm, mmm……
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:06 pm
Del,
Did you do Akadama Red? It is a strong competitor to Thunderbird.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:07 pm
josef: But they have “help” just like Gideon ……………
eyes: O.K. it’s time for me to fess up. I got thrown out of an Air Force mess hall in Da Nang on “in country R&R” in 1968 (seriously) and I have suffered from Air Force PTSD ever since. It’s your fault !
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:08 pm
eyes
@ 11:01
Thass funny!
Hillbilly
@ 11:03
Yep.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:09 pm
Scout,
Father Eyes has heard your confession and forgives you. You may say one rosary as your penance.
seth
July 22nd, 2010
11:09 pm
mmmm,
Did the stink of your ignorant breath stir you from your sleep?
Del
July 22nd, 2010
11:09 pm
Eyes,
No, I was M14 vintage mostly. The issuance of M16X’s (X for experimental, the Army got the good ones or not as bad ones) turned out to be POS’s and got a lot of Marines killed.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:10 pm
Well, here you go !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riYfFQMPIP0
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:12 pm
Whiskey folks…
F-a-a-r too complicated a story to go into here, but my family’s distilleries played their own role in the War of Northern Agression…
Scout…
Kinda like the Gideon story myself…
Del
July 22nd, 2010
11:13 pm
Eyes@11:06,
Probably but can’t really remember what all it was. Okinawa and Camp Butler was just passing through in 65 and 66.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:15 pm
Del,
I know that you and Scout are going to get on my case about this, but after getting my training in Basic with the M16, I was assigned to the SAT (Sabotage Alert Team) at my intelligence gathering outpost. Guess what we got when the alarm went off for a drill? An M2!!! And then we had to head out into the snow looking at a laminated map attached to the M2. Sometimes those snow drifts covered up deep holes in the ground, and airmen looking at the damn maps would disappear into a hole in the snow sometimes. It was so cold on the drills that the guy who played the part of the communist infiltrator would whisper ‘Psssssst” to get our attention so we could all go back into the ops center again.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:17 pm
josef,
An affiliate of Jack Daniels?
Del,
You may have tried Suntory whiskey in Japan.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:18 pm
josef:
In all seriousness (you know where I am coming from) that is exactly what is keepiing them afloat !
II Samuel 5
”
“22 Once more the Philistines came up and spread out in the Valley of Rephaim; 23 so David inquired of the LORD, and he answered, “Do not go straight up, but circle around behind them and attack them in front of the balsam trees. 24 As soon as you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the balsam trees, move quickly, because that will mean the LORD has gone out in front of you to strike the Philistine army.” 25 So David did as the LORD commanded him, and he struck down the Philistines all the way from Gibeon [e] to Gezer.”
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:19 pm
eyes @ 11:09
Thank you ……… I feel better already.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:20 pm
School will be back in session soon and I won’t be able to spend the evening with y’all,,,but I will say this from the summer here at Jay’s place…the late night crew is not a bad bunch to hang out with and I wish some of the day crew would learn the lesson…you can be as far apart as anybody ever was on the issues, but a little respect goes a long way and you can actually all get along…I’m gonna miss that, and thanks…it makes me feel a lot better about the fate of the species…
Gonna have to check out in a minute or two…there’s this fox in a black t-shirt and another in a…well, not much…wanting my attention…
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:21 pm
eyes:
I know what a P-38 is ………. What’s an M-2 ?
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:22 pm
josef:
Well said ……………
popeye
July 22nd, 2010
11:22 pm
My two cents are similar to some other posts. It’s a different generation! Let the current members of the armed forces make the hard choice in the repeal of DADT.
What would an old guy like me know anyway?
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:24 pm
eyes
won’t post it here…but the family brew is a good bourbon and it’s been very, very good to us!
scout
I keep trying to tell the Phillistines hereabouts, but they don’t listen…just remember, though, “And
G-d will deliver Sisera unto the hands of a woman!”
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:26 pm
popeye
What would you know? That you left the world a better place for having passed through it…
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:29 pm
josef:
And He did ………. she drove a stake through his head !!
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:30 pm
Scout,
Ah,not M2 but M1. The M1 was a World War II carbine.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
11:30 pm
Eyes,
I carried a Grease Gun and 45. ACP pistol. Both loaded up same ammo. Slow fire but effective at very close range. I always felt better than a 9.mm Uzi. I was originally ordained as an automatic rifleman and the M14 was great except that the gas cylinder plug would loosen after a mag or 2 of full rock and roll fire.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2010
11:31 pm
josef,
Nice comment to popeye and I can tell you that I would love to think I somehow made the world a better place for passing through it as well, but I can’t wrap my head around what enormous audacity it would take to make that call about myself.
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:31 pm
josef,
I have to check out for the evening. Good luck on the fox in the black t-shirt.
popeye
July 22nd, 2010
11:33 pm
Thanks Josef…I appreciate that! I don’t know about the better place, but I gave it my best!
theyeshaveit
July 22nd, 2010
11:33 pm
Check out time has arrived. Catch you tomorrow for travelin’ music.
RW-(the original)
July 22nd, 2010
11:33 pm
eyes,
My “service” consisted of two years of Army ROTC in the 1970’s but since we had to train on the hand me downs an M1 is all we ever had. The slow learners ended up with major thumb damage during inspections.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
11:34 pm
popeye,
Let the current generation make the choice…Amen to that but it breaks down by military specialty, so it’s not really one size fits all. Don’t know how that can be overlooked.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
11:36 pm
RW
Well, you have, And, yep, can’t say it about yourself, that’s for others to do. One of my favorite lines from “Fiddler” is, “A rabbi who must praise himself has a congregation of one.”
Scout…
May have said this here before, but our Little Princess is “known in Israel as Yael…”
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
11:36 pm
Man …….. I’m going to be dreaming about weapons all night !
Del: My concealed carry weapon is a small Glock .45 caliber. Wouldn’t have anything else.