Should soldiers’ attitudes drive Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell decision? Based on Harry Truman’s example, the answer’s no
The Pentagon has commissioned a survey of more than 400,000 service members, available here, to test morale and other issues,including their reaction to a potential abolition of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy toward gay service members.
“If the law changes and we are told to implement it — and we will, if the law changes — then how do we do this in a way that makes sense?” Gates told soldiers in Korea this week. “How do we identify beforehand the problems, the issues and the challenges that we’re going to face? The kind of training requirements we’re going to need, the kinds of changes in regulations, the impact on benefits — all of these things need to be addressed in advance.”
The proposed policy change has been compared by gay-rights advocates to the historic decision by President Harry Truman in 1948 to desegregate the military. However, defenders of DADT reject that comparison and argue that Congress and the president should be guided on such matters by the sentiments of those who actually wear the uniform.
As it turns out, however, the military also surveyed its members prior to Truman’s decision, and the sentiment among troops at the time was overwhelmingly opposed to desegregation. (H/t Think Progress).
For example, one poll surveyed 2,360 white enlisted personnel in three Army divisions stationed in the South, with results broken down by the soldiers’ region of origin (North, South or Border States). It found that opposition to desegregation was strong and crossed all regional boundaries.
“White enlisted men from the North show a strong prejudice against sharing recreation, theatre or post exchange facilities with Negroes,” it found. “As would be expected, the white enlisted men from the Border States show a stronger dislike for sharing facilities with Negroes than do the Northerners, and the white enlisted men from the South show the strongest dislike at all.” (An example of the questions and reports is printed below).
Truman nonetheless decided to end segregation, a step that earned him a place of honor in civil rights history. His decision may have been influenced by other Army surveys, conducted with white officers and non-commissioned officers who had commanded black combat troops in the European Theater during WWII (a sample is also reprinted below).
Sixty-four percent of the white soldiers said they had initially opposed serving in a company that included “colored platoons,” but 77 percent said that attitude had changed for the better after actual service. In fact, fewer than 1 percent of the white soldiers reported that the colored platoons had performed poorly in combat, with more than 80 percent reporting they had done very well. Almost nine out of 10 reported that black troops had performed as well as if not better than white soldiers.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
427 comments Add your comment
JohnnyReb
July 22nd, 2010
5:58 pm
Bosch, best wishes with your personal challenges. In keeping with the subject, here’s one that might put a smile on your face.
A gunney stated when he first enlisted homosexual activity was against the law. Later, it was OK if you were not caught and did not talk about it. He decided to retire before it became mandatory!
Del
July 22nd, 2010
5:58 pm
Oh yes the political science professors have all the statistics and answer’s for everything. Talk about make believe.
Brett
July 22nd, 2010
6:01 pm
I see the Deep Thinkers are out and about today. Such a waste of useful space and possible humor. Duh.
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:02 pm
Scout,
And believe it or not, you don’t speak for anyone other than yourself, because and I know this may surprise you, but God is different for everyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
josef and Reb,
Thanks – I appreciate it. Things are not good in the Bosch home, but I appreciate the thoughts. Tough roads lie ahead.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:03 pm
JAY
I thought about your post back to me. Back in your court…any disagreement with the attitude of many who equate challenge of the expression of disagreement OF SOME/MANY with the policies of the state of Israel as based in anti-Semitism implies that I am in favor of those policies…evidently criticism of the the criticism is verboten…? Please, clarify…
AmVet
July 22nd, 2010
6:05 pm
Del, perhaps not, but you omitted comments on those first two paragraphs.
Damn damning for the “put them back in the closet” gang wouldn’t you say? The Secret Service? The FBI? The CIA? Those are not just some tiny little nobody organizations of no significance.
And the assertion that this unfounded paranoia is of little overall importance but to a very small cadre in this country is true, no matter who posits it…
Bosch, you’ve been missed. (In a good way by most!)
Doggone/GA
July 22nd, 2010
6:07 pm
“Doggone, your kidding, right?”
Kidding about what?
Kamchak
July 22nd, 2010
6:08 pm
Bosch
Much speculation about your whereabouts lately, mostly involving your demise at the paws of your new puppies.
Sending positive thoughts your way regarding the family situation.
Doggone/GA
July 22nd, 2010
6:10 pm
“I think Congress should take the advice of the Military and not the CinC on DADT. Feel better now?”
I have no problem with that. I just don’t think Congress should be DICTATED to by the military…any more than was Truman.
Dusty
July 22nd, 2010
6:10 pm
Well, Bosch,
I’m sorry. You do sound down and out. I hope there will be good news soon.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:10 pm
Those who want to go to the “tiny minority” argument…10% of the population is not that tiny number one, but even if it is, put yourself in that “tiny” minority’s shoes…
JohnnyReb
July 22nd, 2010
6:12 pm
Doggone – the fix is in on DADT, it will change in December regardless of the military survey; and congress acting will be a formality.
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:12 pm
Kamchak and AmVet,
No — my mom is very sick and not expected to pull through. It’s something that happened very suddenly, I have enough casseroles to feed a small country. I’ve been at their house for the last few days and I’m tired of being comforted right now, so I thought I’d blog and have people tell me what a dumb ass I am — somehow that is more comforting right now.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:13 pm
Will the results of this survey be made public?
Logical Dude
July 22nd, 2010
6:13 pm
Bosch, you dumb ass!
(somehow, I had an urge to say that)
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:13 pm
They could have cut it down to “Is you skeered of f*gs?”
I never thought about that. You know they’re gonna answer NO, then the DoD can say “Good, ’cause you’re gonna be sleeping in the bunk next to you.
You’re suggestion made me think of my husband. He stayed home to take a class online…a job requirement. It was all about listening skills. They created scenarios then offered multiple choice responses. I’ve never heard him cuss so much in his life. Best one of the day? Keep in mind, he’s talking to the computer screen, it’s talking to him (I’m listening).
“WTF do I care whether their gahldamn legs are crossed or not when they’re talkin’ to me!!!” Second best?
“Why the hell would I need to pause before answering when I know the gahldamn answer to the f’ing question. I’m not in this business to make everybody feel good!!!”
He sent his manager an e-mail telling him that the SOB that came up with the test oughta be waterboarded or put out of their misery, ’cause they’re obviously lacking in the ability to produce anything worthwhile.
I laughed all day long. He was still cussing when he came to bed although he’d finished the online class hours earlier.
Couldn’t resist…this morning when he set out, I told him I hope he passed his class. It starts all over again.
“That’s what’s so f’ing insane about the whole thing, there’s no way you can fail…it’s not allowed!!!!
/#$%#!*&%$#@ #%#$ *&@$##!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hilarious.
Logical Dude
July 22nd, 2010
6:14 pm
josef,
It will probably be “classified” at first, and then “leaked” since the results will be a big “so what?”
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:14 pm
Bosch
You’re a dumb a33! Feel better?
Kamchak
July 22nd, 2010
6:16 pm
Bosch
Well, OK…what a dumb ass you are.
Logical Dude
July 22nd, 2010
6:16 pm
And now for some reason, I have the urge to make a casserole.
jt
July 22nd, 2010
6:18 pm
All of the gays that want to serve OPENLY should just join the Air Force.
Everybody else should just observe the DADT policy.
Isn’t that what we are doing now?
Doggone/GA
July 22nd, 2010
6:20 pm
“Doggone – the fix is in on DADT, it will change in December regardless of the military survey; and congress acting will be a formality”
Good
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:21 pm
@@
Reminds me of one of those Unmentionable was taking one day…I was scared to ask…
I’ve got a great principal. Not too long ago we had one of those job satisfaction surveys…hard copy and we were required to complete it at a faculty meeting…I did as required and attached my “further comments on an additional sheet of paper.” I took it to her and said, “here. Don’t worry. You can go ahead and throw it in the garbage now, that’s what they’ll do with it downtown. Just check me off the list as having completed mine and your count will pass muster…”
jt
July 22nd, 2010
6:21 pm
Bosch
even though you have officially boycotted my comments,
you are a dumb ass,
with respect and prayers.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:22 pm
Bosch:
If it’s alright with you, I’ll save my abuse for later. But know that I’m thinking about you.
Doggone/GA
July 22nd, 2010
6:22 pm
““Good, ’cause you’re gonna be sleeping in the bunk next to you.”
Yep, just like you are now
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:23 pm
jt
@ 6:18
Air Force? I thought it was the Navy…
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:25 pm
Thanks guys! You’re the best!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And going back on topic, I’m in agreement with those that feel it’s a soldier’s job to follow policy. Since our military is voluntary, you don’t like the policy, then don’t serve. But if there are soldiers that don’t know they are already serving with gay men and women, then they are probably too stupid to be in the military anyway.
AmVet
July 22nd, 2010
6:27 pm
Hang tough, B! I’m sure it must be damn difficult.
Hope this helps a tad…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RPCFfudmU
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:27 pm
Oops! ’cause one’s gonna be sleeping in the bunk next to you.
Doggone, thanks for pulling it down so I could have a closer look.
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:29 pm
jt,
“even though you have officially boycotted my comments,”
What? I haven’t boycotted your comments. I think it’s Scout that makes the “I have banned you from conversation” lists.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks @@.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
6:29 pm
BOSCH
” But if there are soldiers that don’t know they are already serving with gay men and women, then they are probably too stupid to be in the military anyway.”
Funny you should say that, that’s pretty much what my boy says is the general attitude of those he serves with….
Logical Dude
July 22nd, 2010
6:31 pm
Later folks! gotta run and make a casserole!
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:37 pm
I’m out as well – thanks for the well wishes and laughs — it still amazes me at how medieval folks can be in this day and time.
Pleasant evening all and those of you who have their moms, call them right now.
RF
July 22nd, 2010
6:41 pm
Okay, I can’t resist stepping in even when I know the pool is WAY too hot….Military service and sexual orientation are not mutually exclusive things. There are many in the military now whose morale is difficult to maintain because they can’t admit who they are. Like it or not, it is entirely possible to love one’s country and appreciate the honor of protecting it while being gay. What you do on your own time is just that and so far doesn’t seem to have impacted military performance. I think Gates is right to gauge the effects on overall troop morale, but in the end if nothing in the daily routine changes, the morale will adjust and be fine.
It’s not like the soldiers don’t know or suspect who’s who. I doubt very seriously you’re going to see a line of soldiers waiting for a microphone to proudly announce their homosexuality. Most will likely continue to live quietly, and the only substantive change will be that they can serve and not be afraid that someone will find out and they’ll get booted out. It’s not like they’re asking to change the Officer’s Club to an LGBT bar.
Doggone/GA
July 22nd, 2010
6:42 pm
“thanks for pulling it down so I could have a closer look”
Like the guy said…when you save, you can look at it
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
6:44 pm
AmVet:
“In the United States, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Secret Service allow open service. The key to implementation, experts said, is a uniform code of conduct that is enforced without regard to sexual orientation.”
May I jump in here. I hate to tell you this but you are wrong. I can only answer for one of the above agencies but :
For example:
1) Per the Investigative Manual – Male agents (absent an emergency situation) are NOT allowed to search female prisoners except for a “cursory” search for weapons.
There is nothing in the manual about “openly gay” males or females not searching members of their sex.
2) Per the Investigative Manual – Male agents are not to go into a residence to conduct an interview alone with a member of the opposite sex to prevent even the appearance of inpropriety.
There is nothing in the manual about “openly gay” males or females conducting in residence interviews alone with members of the same sex.
3) I personally attempted to have the above sections of the Investigative Manual reviewed and updated to no avail.
4) Bottom line ……….. Double Standard.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:48 pm
Got gold?
Gold Coin Sellers Angered by New Tax Law
Amendment Slipped Into Health Care Legislation Would Track, Tax Coin and Bullion Transactions
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
6:50 pm
P.S. Amvet:
The only gays who manage to get themselves hired don’t look or act gay. If it was DADT in those agencies no one would know and that’s the way it should be. In any case, a “flamer” wouldn’t make the cut.
I guess that’s discrimination (flamers vs. non-inflamables)
jt
July 22nd, 2010
6:53 pm
JoNix-
“Air Force? I thought it was the Navy… ”
That’s urban legend. There has never been a gay squid.
I once stayed in an Air Force barracks in Mannheim, and I kid you not, it was non stop PILLOW FIGHTS all night long. I didn’t go near the showers. Those guys actually had COFFEE MAKERS in their rooms. They played alot of PARCHEESIE.
The marine baracks I stayed at in Sigonella Italy had to have pallets on the floor to keep your feet dry , no glass in the windows, non-stop craps and poker games and a cage out back to fight. Gays would have been eaten.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:56 pm
jt:
I beg your pardon. My Dad was in the Air Force…a Chief Master Sargeant…a mechanic.
He played poker.
AmVet
July 22nd, 2010
6:57 pm
(flamers vs. non-inflamables)
Now that’s funny!
I have a good friend (over in Alabama of all places) who is known as a flaming hetero!
Jay
July 22nd, 2010
6:58 pm
Josef, maybe it’s because this is the end of a long day, but I’m having trouble comprehending your earlier question…
@@
July 22nd, 2010
6:59 pm
A flaming hetero? That sounds a lot like you, AmVet.
Jay
July 22nd, 2010
7:02 pm
@@, my dad was also CMSGT in the USAF…
Del
July 22nd, 2010
7:03 pm
Bosch,
I’m not asking so no need to tell me but whatever it is you’re up against, please accept my very best wishes. Stay tough.
jt
July 22nd, 2010
7:08 pm
@@
I’m just saying……………………………
I have the same problem with my wife’s late father.
Air Force dudes reeked of perfume.
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:09 pm
If gays can not serve openly in the military…then to be fair and just….perhaps they should be extended the “rights” which exclude them from paying taxes which FUND our military.
Jay
July 22nd, 2010
7:11 pm
Now jt …..
@@
July 22nd, 2010
7:11 pm
My Dad reeked of engine oil and jet fuel.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:12 pm
AmVet:
What did you think of the information in my 6:44 ??
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:12 pm
Saul Good :
Don’t forget to add midgets.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:14 pm
“They took the blue from the sky and a pretty girl’s eyes and a touch of old glory too”
Ooops ……… that’s the Air Force lullaby !
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:18 pm
Scout….about your 6:44 post… please provide the link from your copy/paste.
BTW…midgets can get married…midgets can leave no will and have their spouse inherit their estate…midgets don’t have to “lie” to simply state they are a midget if they seek to join the military. Get it? (probably not)…
jt
July 22nd, 2010
7:22 pm
It is all with due respect.
Your respective fathers would give as good as they got.
Not withstanding pillows and golf courses. And perfume.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
7:24 pm
Scout,
My father was Air Force, actually Royal Canadian Air Force. He joined when Canada was in WWII and we were not. The Canadians were down here recruiting every American pilot they could find. My Dad said that if you were warm and new enough to get something up in the air you had a job.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:28 pm
Saul Good :
Sorry ………. no can do. Restricted Use Only and I no longer have a copy anyway.
You’ll have to take my word for it ……….. or not.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:29 pm
Saul Good:
Sure I do ……………. Being a midget is not a perverse action.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
7:32 pm
Jay
I thought about that, too. A lot. If you are interested, St, Elsewhere
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:32 pm
Del:
Well, it will be a sad day but this is my prediction ……………
U.S. Air Force ……………. Gayest
U.S. Coast Guard ……….. Gayer
U.S. Navy …………………. Gay
U.S. Army …………………. Gaying
U.S. Marine Corps ……….. Gaylest
BTW for all you civilians out there the U.S. Marine Corps is still the only service that has NOT made a “co-ed” spectacle of its bootcamp.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
7:33 pm
jt
There’s something Freudian in that last line of your 6:53
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
7:34 pm
Bosch
July 22nd, 2010
6:12 pm
You dumbass.
AmVet
July 22nd, 2010
7:36 pm
Scout, interesting but not useful.
But you’ll be glad to know that the disgraced and convicted (of three felonies) Oliver North thinks it will lead to pedophilia in the military.
Nonetheless, your post fails to countermand the information I posted.
Here is some more:
# Sixty-seven percent of civilians support allowing gays to serve openly (Annenberg 2004 survey). In 2003, Fox News reported 64 percent support, and the Gallup organization 79 percent, on a similar question.
# Nearly three in four troops (73 percent) say they are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians (Zogby International & the Michael D. Palm Center 2006 study).
# One in four U.S. troops who served in Afghanistan or Iraq knows a member of their unit who is gay. More than 55 percent of the troops who know a gay colleague said the presence of gays or lesbians in their unit is well-known by others (Zogby International). The DADT policy serves no purpose, as troops already know and are comfortable serving alongside gays and lesbians.
# All published Pentagon studies, including the 1993 Rand Report, conclude that there should be no special restrictions on service by gay personnel.
# Twenty-four other nations, including Great Britain, Australia, Canada and Israel, already allow open service by gays and lesbians, and none of the 24 report morale or recruitment problems. Nine nations allowing open service have fought alongside American troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom. In addition, 12 nations allowing open service fought alongside U.S. troops in Operation Enduring Freedom.
# Twenty-three of the 26 NATO nations allow gays and lesbians to serve openly and proudly. The United States, Turkey and Portugal are the only NATO nations that forbid gays and lesbians to serve openly in the armed services.
# Federal CIA, FBI, Defense Intelligence Agency and Secret Service agents all serve proudly as openly gay and lesbian personnel fighting the war on terrorism.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
7:37 pm
jt:
I’m just methin’ wit’cha.
My Dad also played bridge.
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:37 pm
Scout: Perverse action???
Being born a midget is deemed a physical handicap…. same as being born blind or deaf when one seeks to join the military. One who is homosexual is NOT physically unable to “serve” our nation. They’ve been doing it since our nation was founded…
Sad that you consider gays to be “perverse” just “because”… and you equated them having sex with being “perverse”….
Know what I think is “perverse”? Two obese people… who of their own free wills… stuff their faces with junk food all day long having sex ….to me THAT is perverse. Once again you’ll fail to see the difference.
Del
July 22nd, 2010
7:39 pm
Scout
Nah, I don’t think they’ll repeal DADT anytime soon. It’s all about politics and B.O. playing to his base. When the review is completed and they shelve it the Dem’s will blame it on Republicans and hope their base buy’s in. That’s my prediction.
@@
July 22nd, 2010
7:42 pm
I find it rather queer that josef and jay are meeting elsewhere.
(ISH)
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:42 pm
Saul Good:
I said “perverse action” and I stand by that. In my opinion, sex with a member of the same sex is perverse action.
By the way, there is a lot of perverseness out there …….. that’s just one.
jt
July 22nd, 2010
7:43 pm
josef nix
Didn’t mean to.
And I’m sorry I made any remarks. Now I think @@ might think less of me.
It is inter-agency rivalry. I meant no harm. Back in the day, Scout’s latest post would make me call him out to the cage.
Its just what we did.
Times sure do change.
Air Force dudes still smelled suspiciously like perfume though, IMHO.
The Navy was the only orginization that required the brawn AND the brains.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:44 pm
Del:
I hear you but for some of the reasons AmVet has listed above I think it’s a done deal …………. and ultimately our military will be less for it as all other militaries who have engaged in this our less than ours now.
Themper Fi, Ooo Wah ……. and ………. “Wangers” wead the way !
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
7:45 pm
jt
July 22nd, 2010
6:53 pm
Gays would have been eaten.
I think that would be their preference…………..
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:45 pm
Excuse me ………. “are less than ours now.”
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
July 22nd, 2010
7:46 pm
Shirley named one of her kids Russia?
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:46 pm
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
O’Really?
ANY person?
Even a GAY person?
Maybe the homophobes just don’t consider someone who is homosexual as a “person” to begin with… that’s one way to skate the laws of our nation.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:47 pm
jt:
We called it “Rocks and Shoals” ……….. you wouldn’t be the first who tried but failed ………..
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:48 pm
Scout: “By the way, there is a lot of perverseness out there …….. that’s just one.”
Only if you were brought up to believe that sex is “dirty”….
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
7:48 pm
Scout? I doubt you have ever been in the military, and if you WERE you were a REMF. Combat soldiers only care about who will stand beside them when the bullets fly.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:49 pm
Saul Good:
……….. and the Supreme Court of the United States said DADT was just fine.
Next question.
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:49 pm
Scout: “and ultimately our military will be less for it as all other militaries who have engaged in this our less than ours now.”
well….Except for the fact that gays have ALWAYS served in our military…
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
7:50 pm
I’m in a pretty good mood here and am not off to be particularly angst riddled over being gay (another of my lables is front row center in that arena right now) and I have been heartened by what I’m hearing here…
But…
I’ve had a good life. I’ve had a 35+ year happy relationship with a foresaking all other partner and have all the material comforts and professional recognition a person could ever want. Still and all, though, most of “y’all” really don’t know a lot of what we’re up against in the DADT arena, and not just military. I tangled with one of my fellow liberals here who was a not-so-closeted homophobe. I challenged her to go through one day of her life and every time she started to mention her husband to stop and think, “is it politic to do that here and now.” Some days that weighs heavy, other days it’s the furtherest thing from our minds, but what others would consider insignificant will jar “all that” loose.
One example…the other day I had to have a medical procedure in which, to cover the potential, it was necessary to let them know who had the right, for lack of a better word, to pull the plug. If we were married, all I would have had to do was list Unmentionable’s name as “spouse.” Period, kaput and done with. Instead it took the signing by me and him both of a series of documents. It only took a few minutes, true, and if we were unmarried living together heterosexuals or if I were really “single,” it would have been the same process. The point is, though, that we were not afforded that option, our relationship not eligible for the state sanction…
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:51 pm
Fred:
Sorry Pal ………
0311 (infantry)/USMC/Vietnam 1967-68 (secondary MOS 8541 (now 0317) Scout-Sniper)
Next question.
Fred
July 22nd, 2010
7:52 pm
My dad was an air force pilot. When I told him I was going to jump school he said, “Don’t tell anyone we know. It would embarrass me, tell them you are a fag or something instead. I can live with that. only two things fall out of the sky, bird crap and idiots……….”
LOL true story.
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:52 pm
Scout: “…and the Supreme Court of the United States said DADT was just fine.”
In that case:
They also said abortion is legal. Agree with that Scout? I’ll have to presume you do… it’s the “law” of the land.
Jay
July 22nd, 2010
7:53 pm
What was the name of that Village People song?
“In the Air Force”?
No. That’s not quite right.
Help me out here jt.
:>)
mike
July 22nd, 2010
7:53 pm
Look, I am not going to claim to know the answer to this question because I (like Jay) have never served and I think we should leave it to the military to decide.
What is funny is that it was just a few months ago that Jay gave us a hyper-partisan screed called, “The party that refuses to listen to the generals’ advice” in which he (as usual) demonizes people who disagree with his intrinsically correct views. At that time, he was claiming that we need to listen to the Generals who support the change that Jay wants.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/02/22/the-party-that-refuses-to-listen-to-the-generals-advice/
Frankly, I would rather be the “The party that refuses to listen to the generals’ advice” than “The party that refuses to listen to the soldiers’ advice”. Of course, sneering at common people and worshiping elites is what being extremist liberals do right?
BTW: Note Jay attacking Cheney for never serving, yet advocating military action. Jay never served, yet Jay has advocated all kinds of military action in Afghanistan. Jay is a hypocrite, but we all knew that.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:53 pm
Saul Good :
Yes, and very few, and without stating it, which caused few problems with good order and discipline and I am sure I served with some and since I didn’t know it I like it that way.
Just sayin ………………….
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:54 pm
And actually Scout…the Supreme Court never ruled on DADT….they simply refused to take the case… so they’ve never heard the case in their court….BIG difference.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:54 pm
Jay:
They are also the only service on the front of a Cracker Jack box.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:55 pm
Saul Good:
Happens all the time …………. the let the Appellate Court ruling stand and become the law of the land ……….. they ruled !
mike
July 22nd, 2010
7:55 pm
Why does Jay call Dick Cheney “Vice President Dick “Five Deferments and Duck if He Grabs a Shotgun” Cheney” in the above article?
You would think that Jay had served or something. I guess only Jay is allowed to be a “chickenhawk”, right?
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:56 pm
Mike:
At ease soldier ……… it’s not worth it.
josef nix
July 22nd, 2010
7:56 pm
Del
@ 7:39
What you say has certainly crossed my mind, too.
@@
at 7:42
Not in this lifetime! His Missus and my Mister wouldn’t stand for it… ISH
mike
July 22nd, 2010
7:56 pm
Jay said, “We need to listen to the people in the military on this issue, but only the people in the military who share my views on this issue”.
Now that is some intellectual honesty.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:57 pm
Saul Good:
Yes, abortion is the law of the land until it is changed ……….. just like slavery was.
mike
July 22nd, 2010
7:57 pm
Scout -
Why don’t you worry about yourself. Who are you?
Saul Good
July 22nd, 2010
7:57 pm
“You would think that Jay had served or something. I guess only Jay is allowed to be a “chickenhawk”, right?”
Jay never started the drum beat leading to a war where he sent other people’s children to fight his battles… “right”???
@@
July 22nd, 2010
7:57 pm
jt:
Now I think @@ might think less of me.
Naaahhhh, you’d have to be REALLY out there for me to think less of you.
Worry not.
jt
July 22nd, 2010
7:58 pm
Jay-
Urban legend.
Scout-
Bring it.
I’ve prove’d my point on 4 continents. It’s called brawn AND brains. Works everytime.
Scout
July 22nd, 2010
7:58 pm
Fred:
Oh, so you’re in that outfit with the U.S. on your collar so you know which army you are in ?
mike
July 22nd, 2010
7:59 pm
“Jay never started the drum beat leading to a war where he sent other people’s children to fight his battles… “right”???”
What are you talking about? Jay was an outspoken advocate of the war in Afghanistan and he was an outspoken supporter of the surge. Did his children fight there?