Civil authorities right to intervene in Catholic abuse inquiry
Detaining church leaders and seizing church documents is not a step that should ever be taken lightly. But angry protestations from the Vatican aside — Pope Benedict XVI called the action “surprising and deplorable” — officials in Belgium seem well within their rights to press their investigation into child abuse at the hands of Catholic priests and coverups by high church officials.
“On Thursday, scores of police officers seized documents, computers, DVDs and CDs at the Belgian archbishop’s residence in Mechlin, north of Brussels, and detained a dozen Belgian bishops who were meeting there. Also detained for nine hours and told to surrender his cell phone was the Vatican’s envoy to Belgium.
Using power tools, police also opened up a prelate’s crypt in Mechlin’s St. Rombout Cathedral looking for documents. Simultaneously, police carted off 500 sexual abuse case files against Belgian clergy from the office of Adriaenssens’ panel in Leuven, just east of Brussels…
“It has failed badly in its treatment of many of these cases,” (Rik Torfs, a canon law expert) said. “The church always found their fate less important than its own prestige. In that sense, today’s papal protests are unimpressive.”
The sad truth is that the Catholic Church has exhausted what would otherwise be a strong public presumption that it could handle such cases itself. In April, for example, Belgium’s longest-serving bishop, Roger Vangheluwe, stepped down after confessing to sexually abusing a young boy as a priest as well as when he was serving as archbishop. That kind of repeated behavior, without intervention from the church, has forced the hand of Belgian civil authorities. Depending on what the investigation discovers, authorities in other countries may begin to take similar action.
UPDATE: I should also point out that the U.S. Supreme Court Monday cleared the way for civil lawsuits against the church for its handling of the abuse cases. As The Washington Post reports:
“In declining to stop a lawsuit that accuses the Vatican of conspiring with U.S. church officials to cover up sex abuse, the court took a rare step toward bringing the Holy See into a U.S. courtroom.
The justices, without comment, declined the Vatican’s appeal of a lower-court ruling that said it could be sued in a U.S. court on certain grounds. The decision came in a lawsuit filed by a man who said he was sexually abused as a teenager in 1965 by a priest in Portland, Ore. His attorneys said the church moved the priest among different assignments to cover up the abuse.
The Vatican argued that its status as a foreign country exempts it from being sued in a U.S. court, a longtime position that has helped shield it from such lawsuits.”
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165 comments Add your comment
arnold
June 29th, 2010
7:03 am
Many seem to hold religion above the law. I don’t. Too much has happened in the name of religion. Too much death, sexual abuse, etc. I also think the guilty should be prosecuted and punished.
ByteMe
June 29th, 2010
7:05 am
Back on topic… this is only a “scandal” if you think that the Vatican is really a country and churches are “diplomatic missions” that fall under the rules of diplomatic immunity. Otherwise, it’s just another BP awash in oily stuff trying to hide the truth from everyone else.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:06 am
To Hell with Obama and his smartass sidekick, Bite me
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:09 am
The RCC has ben going downhill since the death ofPope Pius XII..I even like the name Pius..Here’s looking down on you.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:12 am
“The sad truth is that the Catholic Church has exhausted what would otherwise be a strong public presumption that it could handle such cases itself”
Jay, you just said a mouthfull. The Catholic church has been covering up the criminal acts of its priests for decades – just because it announced a half-hearted mea culpa to Ireland in March doesn’t mean that the people are ready to forgive – nor the legal authorities to forget.
In his papal letter to the church in Ireland, the pope said “I asked the bishops of Ireland, “to establish the truth of what happened in the past, to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent it from occurring again, to ensure that the principles of justice are fully respected, and above all, to bring healing to the victims and to all those affected by these egregious crimes” … now, we know – he has no more interest in seeking actual JUSTICE than have an interest in watching Steven Segal movies … he just wants to continue the hide-and-obfuscate procedures of the past.
shame. shame on the church for thinking it is above the law.
jt
June 29th, 2010
7:13 am
“That kind of repeated behavior, without intervention from the church, has forced the hand ___________”
I don’t know about Belgium but here in the States, the church should intervene on behalf of young boys everywhere being molested by young female school teachers employed by the state.
Its an epidemic.
jt
June 29th, 2010
7:14 am
Although I am torn by IF it is REALLY damaging.
AmVet
June 29th, 2010
7:15 am
The pro-crime, anti-police, “let the market and everybody else police themselves”, Party of No Responsibility, Talibaptist, Republinutjob types must have mixed feelings about these pedophiles.
On the one hand they can relate. And likely feel sorry for their “Christian” brothers who just happen to be perverts. Like so many of them and their own church leaders and elected and political heroes.
http://911review.org/Alex/Republican_Pedophiles.html
On the other hand, the xenophobes probably feel the Papists got it coming. And will spit out their red herring breakfast on cue.
Good times in Jeebusville.
TaxPayer
June 29th, 2010
7:15 am
Too much has happened in the name of religion.
And to think, we’ve hardly scratched the surface.
joe matarotz
June 29th, 2010
7:16 am
Have you ever noticed how some of the greatest atrocities have been committed in the name of religion? Have you ever noticed that some of the biggest dirtbags you’ll ever meet wear their religion on their sleeve? Why is that?
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:16 am
After court and if guilt is determined these catholicking perverts should have their asses tossed strait into prisons the “general population”.
Pedophilia is one thing but pedophilia in the Christ name is just asking for it…
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:16 am
Taxes have not been lowered by Hussein X, and it is not whining to demand government steal less from the producers, the whiners I see lateley are the parasitic government employees moaning over the cuts. I am enjoying the hell out of government sector layoffs..government payrolls have been uber bloated for years.
But I was being facetious calling Biden a smartass, because it is well known the man is a complete dumbass. Stand up and take a bow, you paraplegic , you!
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:17 am
As bits of this scandal continue to dribble out (will it ever end?), those of us who’ve been following it not all that closely will continue to be amazed at some of what’s revealed. This Belgian bishops’ panel, for instance–investigating for 12 years? “its case load in its first 10 years of existence never exceeded 30?” wha?
Depending on what the investigation discovers, authorities in other countries may begin to take similar action.
I suspect few if any will dispute Jay’s implicit conclusion that he’s fine with that.
from the linked story:
police also opened up a prelate’s crypt in Mechlin’s St. Rombout Cathedral
I’ll admit to having no clue as to what a “prelate’s crypt” actually looks like, but something tells me I’d be disappointed.
Bud Wiser
June 29th, 2010
7:18 am
Always on the cutting edge of what is really important, eh Bookman?
No G-20.
No Afghanistan.
No “Betray-Us”.
Well, that fits in well with Obozo’s “leadership” and “economic recovery” so far that consists of:
A Gulf filling with oil, so let’s ban all drilling;
It is OUR job to protect Arizona, and if they are trying to do it themselves, then let’s sue them;
No jobs;
New home sales collapsing (again);
Spend, spend, spend money we do not have;
Tax, tax, tax, because it has been proven historically that it is exactly the wrong thing to do during an economic recession;
Did I say tax, tax, tax?
What an idiot, a moron, a completely incapable and incompetent sap, a person so overwhelmed by the job that he has made himself into some Al Jolson-like clown. It kind of makes one wonder just what a failed-turned-political ‘education’ facility Harvard has become.
November 10.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:18 am
Good morning to all y’all. I hope it will be a great for you!
Posted this the other day, it’s more appropriate here…
Don’t piss of the Sister, y’all…
http://punditkitchen.com/2010/06/27/political-pictures-dirty-sister-mary-elizabeth/
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:20 am
“I am enjoying the hell out of government sector layoffs.”
Absolutely!! Same here…give more of them the pink slip. Send em packing. Fire some asses. Cull-out the DeadWood. Weed out the weaklings. More…we need more of these lazy, shiftless, no good, govt employees fired.
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:22 am
Their will be no recovery anytime soon. Big Business has no idea what OBlunder is gonna do so they appear to not be hiring. Homes sales still crashing and crashing…
Ladies and Gentlemen the other shoe is about to drop.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:23 am
OGK – 7:16 – there’s bad karma, then there’s the kind of karma that, no matter HOW many lives you live, you’re never gonna get rid of the stink …
Jay
June 29th, 2010
7:24 am
I just posted this update above:
In addition, the U.S. Supreme Court Monday cleared the way for civil lawsuits against the church for its handling of the abuse cases. As The Washington Post reports:
“In declining to stop a lawsuit that accuses the Vatican of conspiring with U.S. church officials to cover up sex abuse, the court took a rare step toward bringing the Holy See into a U.S. courtroom.
The justices, without comment, declined the Vatican’s appeal of a lower-court ruling that said it could be sued in a U.S. court on certain grounds. The decision came in a lawsuit filed by a man who said he was sexually abused as a teenager in 1965 by a priest in Portland, Ore. His attorneys said the church moved the priest among different assignments to cover up the abuse.
The Vatican argued that its status as a foreign country exempts it from being sued in a U.S. court, a longtime position that has helped shield it from such lawsuits.”
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:24 am
..and a child will lead them…right down the toilet. Could this be the end of time for the Catholic Church?
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:25 am
1000 years of historical data is butt a micro *poot* over the anals of time and not worth wrecking peoples lives and world economies over so Jerkoffs like The Goron can get rich.
Climate change is a farce. No more no less.
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
7:26 am
“Could this be the end of time for the Catholic Church?”
I would say no, it isn’t…but with a little luck it might be the end of the Catholic Church as we currently know it. I can’t see that church going away…but changing? Maybe. But even that, if it happens, won’t happen fast.
T-Town
June 29th, 2010
7:26 am
This is just one of the reasons I went from a stanch Catholic to a non-practicing Catholic. This does not shake my believes, just the church that provides them to me. You can fool some of the people some of the time…….
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:28 am
Outhouse,
How long can you tread water?
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:28 am
and it is not whining to demand government steal less from the producers
The day that you look beyond your little echo chamber, and at the world at large and how civilized nations accomplish challenges similar to ours, and calibrate your commentary accordingly, is the day when your complaints will rise above the level of “whining.”
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:29 am
Ya…I dont get these catholics priest molesting kids, them tossing water on people and walking around with the air freshener thing swinging it around. I guess the congregation must be really stinky.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:30 am
Doggone,
The Church was predicting an Anti-Christ, but it will be the children that brings them down…and sooner than later, I think.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:30 am
The vatican is like any bloated organization. Regardless how many may hate Pope Bennie, I doubt anyone could say pope JP2 would have knowingly overlooked a pedo in his midst..but it never gets that high because the vatican , like any government, is actually administered by useless beureaucrats..I would propose we exterminate all beureaucrats..but I would have to file my idea in triplicate with the office of cool ideas, and it would be lost in red tape for years.
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:30 am
Tread water? No way. Sean Penn has a boat and when he comes to rescue us one and all Im getting a seat.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:30 am
Jay – 7:24 – pretty amazing considering how packed the court is with Catholics – Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Sotomayer, Kennedy, Scalia …
TaxPayer
June 29th, 2010
7:32 am
One little town in California did the right thing and pulled the plug. No more town. We need to do that with at least half of Georgia’s counties. Then, to balance the remaining budget, we need to eliminate the tax exempt status of the state’s millions of churches. After all, why should everyone else get stuck with the burden of paying for all those scandalous investigations.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:32 am
“I doubt anyone could say pope JP2 would have knowingly overlooked a pedo in his midst”
um … you do realize that these allegations aren’t new – that they also occured (and were systematically covered up) during JPII’s tenure …
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
7:32 am
“but it will be the children that brings them down…and sooner than later, I think”
Yes, I agree. I could never be a Catholic for three reasons: they won’t ordain women priests, they won’t allow married priests, and I think of the dusty figure of Christ walking the roads and paths of his world…and I see the opulent, pampered figure of the Pope and it makes me SICK.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:33 am
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:30 am
OMG!!! The Inquisition is back!!!
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:33 am
“we need to eliminate the tax exempt status of the state’s millions of churches”
oh, yeah … I can hear the poutrage as that makes its way through the ways and means committee … sooooooooo never gonna happen …
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:35 am
Doggone,
Having been born into families the were Catholic (fater’s side) and Babtist (Mom’s side) is it any wonder I’m a Pagan?
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:35 am
Normal … did you say inquisition???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM
(posting blind, so I hope this works)
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:35 am
stands..
I don’t give a damn about other countries..or how they do things. Same goes for people, actually. I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:35 am
“The Pope”. LOL…they worship him like he is some kinda Grand Poobah or something.
Just never cared for those guys. Nor the Cardinal, Bishops and all the other nonesense. Altho the movie Heaven Help Us was a entertaining flick and a good look at some catholic church abuses.
SPQR(laissez Faire)
June 29th, 2010
7:37 am
USinUK, as usual, you missed the entire point of the post.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
June 29th, 2010
7:38 am
Priests are messing with little boys all around the world and some GA cops just arrested a guy that wouldn’t stop messing with three horses while they were trying to arrest him for it. And they put the Rev. Jim Bob Buice in prison just for being found nekkid in the bushes with some boy.
What kind of fambly values is that?
I give up. Have a good day everybody.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:38 am
OGK – 7:35 – yeah, you say that … but we all know you want the hat …
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:41 am
Jay – 7:24 – pretty amazing considering how packed the court is with Catholics – Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Sotomayer, Kennedy, Scalia …
Based on the attitudes of actual Catholics I know and love, I’d say it’s more like “pretty much expected, considering how packed the court is…”
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:42 am
SPQR – your point was your usual anti-gummint point (you are nothing if not consistent) – that bureaucracy enabled the situation to continue
however, to say that JPII didn’t know anything about what was going on because of the layers in the RC church is ludicrous on its face
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
7:42 am
UK…I would like to have one of those High Priest Catholic Hats.
Would be fun to “descecrate it” then walk into the catholic church wearing the damn thing. Or perhaps wear it the movies…they have their cellphones and I have my Big Hat!!
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:43 am
I don’t give a damn about other countries..or how they do things
Well of course you don’t! because you don’t want to learn anything, you don’t want anything in this country to actually improve. You just want to whine, because it’s emotionally satisfying.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:44 am
OGK – “Or perhaps wear it the movies…they have their cellphones and I have my Big Hat!!”
I’m with ya!
AmVet
June 29th, 2010
7:45 am
“Have you ever noticed that some of the biggest dirtbags you’ll ever meet wear their religion on their sleeve?”
Why yes I have.
LOL.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:46 am
USinUK,
Gotta wait ’til I get home…Workee no likee you tube-e
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:47 am
I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.
There’s your sign…
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
7:48 am
“There’s your sign…”
And it’s sad…but they say confession is the first step to recovery, so maybe there’s hope after all.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:51 am
Normal – 7:46 – sorry … as I know your pain, I can commiserate (it was Mel Brooks singing The Inquisition from History of the World)
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:52 am
Doggone – 7:48 – unfortunately, that wasn’t so much confession as bragging …
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:52 am
> I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.
There’s your sign…
Eh. I take it as a given that some in here are sociopaths.
see also:
http://www.wbur.org/npr/127888976
the orbital cortex puts a brake on another part of the brain called the amygdala, which is involved with aggression and appetites. But in some people, there’s an imbalance — the orbital cortex isn’t doing its job — perhaps because the person had a brain injury or was born that way.
“What’s left? What takes over?” [James Fallon] asks. “The area of the brain that drives your id-type behaviors, which is rage, violence, eating, sex, drinking.”
The emphasis is on the “rage,” here.
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
7:55 am
“that wasn’t so much confession as bragging …”
Oh sure…but even bragging is a form of confession, even if the braggart can’t see it that way.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:56 am
Somehow I doubt you could hit the side of a barn, even if you were standing inside of it…
Pope Frank
June 29th, 2010
7:56 am
“It’s not easy having a good time
Even smiling makes my face ache
And Rocky is behaving just the way Eddie did
Perhaps I made a mistake in splitting his brain
between the two of them…”
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
7:56 am
Hussein X and his buttbuddy paul “print 400 trillion and use it” krugman won’t rest until the federal government is 99.9999% of GDP.
Thanks for proving my point.
(if you could read for comprehension you’d know that Krugman and the Administration not only aren’t on the same page, they’re not even reading from the same book.)
Normal
June 29th, 2010
7:57 am
USinUK & Doggone,
That’s where President Clinton went wrong…he should have bragged…
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:57 am
“I take it as a given that some in here are sociopaths”
some definitely are … in this situation, I think it’s more of a matter of someone being very young (my guesstimate is early- to mid-twenties – and stupid.
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
7:58 am
“he should have bragged”
I’m actually inclined to agree with that!
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
7:59 am
Normal – 7:57 – about Monica? ew. I met the guy who knocked her up and all I could think was “there isn’t enough penicillin on the planet” …
Normal
June 29th, 2010
8:05 am
USinUK,
I’ve always maintained that it wasn’t about Monica per se, but about the fack that a 53 year old man got a BJ from a twenty something year old girl…doesn’t happen often…yeah, Ida bragged…called a news conference, even. (he says in his best Snaggletooth imitation…)
Normal
June 29th, 2010
8:05 am
Fack? GAWD, I wish I could type!!!!
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
8:06 am
krugman simply says [President Obama] isn;t spending fast ENOUGH
Well the magnitude of spending is, as the Vice President would put it, a big f—ing deal.
It’s not “simply” anything.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
8:07 am
…or perhaps “fack” was a Freudian slip…
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
8:07 am
Perhaps Biden will tell gulf State residents they are all a bunch of smart-asses and if they had been true Americans, paying more taxes, then this wouldve already been cleaned up.
Vice president to assess oil spill efforts in Gulf area
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/29/gulf.oil.disaster/index.html?hpt=T2
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
8:08 am
Normal – ” the fack that a 53 year old man got a BJ from a twenty something year old girl…doesn’t happen often”
you funny man. you make joke.
power and $$$ – 2 of the biggest reasons on the planet why middle-age men are able to wrangle young wimmen …
Peadawg
June 29th, 2010
8:09 am
USinUK and Normal…..and y’all called me out for talking about the sHIM up in South Carolina a couple of weeks ago(I forgot her name).
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
8:10 am
Normal – the best part of that whole “episode” was – to me – when some Congressmen interview Lewinsky and tried to get her to be the “exploited innocent.” A role she refused to take, and I think more than one of those supposedly “sophisticated” gentlemen were shocked that she was proud of her role.
Yeah, it was something that a 53 year old man got a BJ from a 20-something woman, but then how many 20-something women can say the gave a BJ to a PRESIDENT?
TaxPayer
June 29th, 2010
8:11 am
We need more stimuli!
Granny Godzilla
June 29th, 2010
8:12 am
The civil authorities are decades late.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
8:13 am
Peadawg – 8:09 – this isn’t about looks … this is about behavior …
Peadawg
June 29th, 2010
8:14 am
Same difference.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
8:16 am
Peadawg – 8:14 – ah. no. world of difference. you can’t do much about what you look like, but you can choose to not act like a common trollop.
Peadawg
June 29th, 2010
8:17 am
stands for decibels
June 29th, 2010
8:19 am
2 of the biggest reasons on the planet why middle-age men are able to wrangle young wimmen …
if 53 is “middle age” then I expect ol’ Billy-Jeff to kick off at 106.
later, good folks. (You sociopaths n’ all.)
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
8:21 am
“if 53 is “middle age” then I expect ol’ Billy-Jeff to kick off at 106.”
well, according to Henry Hyde, that’s still YOUTHFUL
Bud Wiser
June 29th, 2010
8:38 am
Eliminate tax exempt status for church holdings and properties.
professional skeptic
June 29th, 2010
8:38 am
“I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.”
Exactly why I will never vote for another Republican as long as I’m alive. This is what the core rightists believe down to the bottom-most depths of their angry, embittered, hollow souls– yet to win elections they have to brainwash enough of the masses with lies, claiming to be the party of life and family values and high morals.
Sadly, the ruse and the lies are allowed to persist generation after generation.
david wayne osedach
June 29th, 2010
8:39 am
Child abuse is child abuse and it is highly illegal. It falls under local jurisdiction.
Stuart Smalley
June 29th, 2010
8:41 am
“I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.”
Truth be told I would venture to guess the majority of individuals feel this way. Most are just unwilling to admit it. And thats ok. Because Im good enough and smart enough and dog gone it, people like me.
electrician
June 29th, 2010
8:42 am
professional skeptic…those beliefs are not confined to republicans,that fact always gets lost on this blog.
Stuart Smalley
June 29th, 2010
8:50 am
Well…uh…I would take the $100,000 and give it to the homeless person and thats…ok. Because Im good enough and smart enough and dog gone it, people like me.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
8:51 am
USinUk,
if 53 is “middle age” then I expect ol’ Billy-Jeff to kick off at 106.
I’ve always dreamed about being shot dead by a jealous husband at the age of 95…
AmVet
June 29th, 2010
8:52 am
The guys who tell everybody how much money they have, generally don’t have two nickles to rub together.
And ANYBODY who is sophomoric enough to think for a second that that logical fallacy of false dilemma at 8:46 means ANYTHING of substance is in need of serious remedial education…
Normal
June 29th, 2010
8:53 am
“I value money more than I value other people. Always have, always will.”
The more I think about that sentence, the more I realize that it has become the “American Mantra” and that’s just plain sad.
TaxPayer
June 29th, 2010
8:56 am
Ah yes, the homeless person scenario. SPQR hath revealed his former self.
Gordon Gecko
June 29th, 2010
8:56 am
“Greed, for lack of a better term ladies and gentlemen, is good”.
professional skeptic
June 29th, 2010
8:57 am
As always, I’m open to evidence to the contrary if you disagree. You have a lot of work cut out for you, though, if your goal is to overturn the conclusions I’ve drawn after 12 years of living in this state and watching the rightists at work.
Speaking of work, it’s about that time. Have a good day, everyone. When I pop on at lunch, I wonder how many more ultra rightists will have come out of the closet finally admitting their hatred and disdain for the rest of humanity.
TM
June 29th, 2010
8:58 am
Didn’t Italy convict a bunch of our CIA agents a while back for doing something to stop terrorism? I guess we now will get some payback.
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
8:58 am
“The more I think about that sentence, the more I realize that it has become the “American Mantra” and that’s just plain sad.”
Not “has become” but “has been” – and it has been for a long time. Ever since the Industrial Revolution. It’s not a new phenomenon by any means, it just cycles in and out of our “collective” conscious and this happens to be one of the “in” times.
Church History
June 29th, 2010
8:59 am
“The sad truth is that the Catholic Church has exhausted what would otherwise be a strong public presumption that it could handle such cases itself” Jay, you just said a mouthfull. The Catholic church has been covering up the criminal acts of its priests for decade…
Decades? Voltaire in the 1730s wrote about being buggered by the Jesuits when he was a school boy. It’s probably not an exaggeration to suggest that the Catholic Church has been a bastion of homosexuality and pedophilia ever since it required priests to be “celibate.” The Second Lateran Council, in 1139, prohibited the clergy to marry, mainly for legal and inheritance reasons — not for any theology. The Apostles were married men, yet somehow the wise old men in Rome know better.
Eli Jones
June 29th, 2010
8:59 am
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” — Thomas Jefferson
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
9:00 am
“…finally admitting their hatred and disdain for the rest of humanity.”
I think its certain segments of humanity…ie UN officials etc.
ken R
June 29th, 2010
9:00 am
I agree with Fox News, Pedofiles should go to jail for 25 years. Religious leaders are no different.
AmVet
June 29th, 2010
9:02 am
No, you clearly do not understand logic. Nor your fallacies therein. Such as black and white thinking and false dilemmas, choices and opposites. There are many others you’ve probably never heard of either.
But not that it is surprising, given that these are subjects covered in great detail in the reviled liberal brainwashing centers of education and academia.
OK, off to be a good little capitalist and help pay for the occupations and more welfare for the wealthy…
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
9:03 am
“The Apostles were married men, yet somehow the wise old men in Rome know better”
Some of that attitude comes from the writings of Paul, though. And based on Jesus himself not having been married.
Outhouse GoKart
June 29th, 2010
9:04 am
Victims of pedophilia live a lifetime of mental anguish, torture, shame etc and are never released from same.
The convicted pedophile should be released only to the prisons “general population” and never returned to society.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:05 am
Normal – “I’ve always dreamed about being shot dead by a jealous husband at the age of 95…”
welp, you’re debonair and suave enough … it just might happen!!
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:07 am
Jay:
You are correct on this one ! Let ‘er rip !
Gale
June 29th, 2010
9:08 am
Actually, pedophile priests would be a benefit to prisons and would be away from the objects of their downfall. They may well be called to serve, but have serious problems where young boys are concerned. Remove them from contact with boys and they may regain their calling.
J. Kase
June 29th, 2010
9:17 am
Always wondered why the priest would tell us altar-boys to go out and sit in the snow, cuz he needed a couple cold ones after mass. Who would of figured.
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:18 am
Jay @ 7:24am:
Which is exactly why we should NOT have an Ambassador to the Vatican !!!
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:19 am
“Did I mention that the prophet mohammed, revered by all muslims, was a pedophile?”
did you hear me mention it? huh? huh? get me, I’m soooooo provocative! Mohommad is a PEDO!! PEDO! PEDO! did you hear me mention it earlier? did ya? did ya? did ya?
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:20 am
SPQR(laissez Faire) & USinUK:
………. but I doubt the Belgians will have the guts to go after let’s say “abuse of women” in the Muslim community.
Hummmmm ………………….
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
9:21 am
USinUK – I’m beginning to think your assessment of his age was off. I’m now thinking young teenager, not young 20-something.
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:21 am
USinUK:
Responded to you in the thread down below …………….
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:25 am
Scout – you mean laws like this:
http://craigconsidine.wordpress.com/2010/05/01/belgium-law-could-imprison-women-for-wearing-burqa/
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:30 am
USinUK:
Get back to me when it’s actually law and being enforcced in spite of riots and bombings. And that’s just the TIP of the iceberg of their abuse of women. Really just a “token” of the real problem.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:31 am
Doggone – he mentioned something about his parents being in their 50s, so I’m going by the law of averages …
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:33 am
Scout – so, what, Belgium SHOULDN’T investigate the Church until the anti-burkha laws are codified? and, given that assault already IS against the law (as is murder), I don’t really know what you want them to do re: abuse and honor killings … make them really-super-duper illegal?
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:34 am
“OFF TOPIC #1″
Three “excellent” questions for “Lady Kaga” from George Will as she goes through her Supreme Court nomination process:
1) “In Federalist 45, James Madison said: “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the state governments are numerous and indefinite.” What did the Father of the Constitution not understand about the Constitution? Are you a Madisonian? Does the doctrine of enumerated powers impose any limits on the federal government? Can you cite some things that, because of that doctrine, the federal government has no constitutional power to do?
2) “In 1964, Sen. Hubert Humphrey, a principal sponsor of that year’s Civil Rights Act, denounced the “nightmarish propaganda” that the law would permit preferential treatment of an individual or group because of race or racial “imbalance” in employment. What happened?”
3) ” Can you name a human endeavor that Congress cannot regulate on the pretense that the endeavor affects interstate commerce? If courts reflexively defer to that congressional pretense, in what sense do we have limited government?”
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:36 am
USinUK:
Any husbands refusing to let their wives drive? Daughters go to school? Forced marriages?
The list is endless …………….
Scout
June 29th, 2010
9:36 am
Sorry …….. have to run. You’all be nice.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:38 am
well, it would be an improvement over the tack the GOP chose yesterday:
“Justice Marshall’s judicial philosophy,” said Sen. Jon Kyl (Ariz.), the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, “is not what I would consider to be mainstream.” Kyl — the lone member of the panel in shirtsleeves for the big event — was ready for a scrap. Marshall “might be the epitome of a results-oriented judge,” he said.
It was, to say the least, a curious strategy to go after Marshall, the iconic civil rights lawyer who successfully argued Brown vs. Board of Education. Did Republicans think it would help their cause to criticize the first African American on the Supreme Court, a revered figure who has been celebrated with an airport, a postage stamp and a Broadway show? The guy is a saint — literally. Marshall this spring was added to the Episcopal Church’s list of “Holy Women and Holy Men,” which the Episcopal Diocese of New York says “is akin to being granted sainthood.”
With Kagan’s confirmation hearings expected to last most of the week, Republicans may still have time to make cases against Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa and Gandhi.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/28/AR2010062805129.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Father O' Toole
June 29th, 2010
9:39 am
Nothin a few “Our father’s” would not take care of. Now gimme back me beads.
Father O' Toole
June 29th, 2010
9:42 am
Hey, I’m “doin” yer kids a favor.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:46 am
Scout – “Any husbands refusing to let their wives drive? Daughters go to school? Forced marriages?”
forced marriages are illegal in Belgium
school attendance is compulsory
as far as driving goes, I don’t believe the US has a law prohibiting a man from preventing his wife from driving, so mote … plank … eyes …
Nothing is Free
June 29th, 2010
9:47 am
USinUK
All liberal activists are saints aren’t they?
Like the benevolent federal government, they are just there to change everything so we can be like Europe.
Oh boy. Let’s spend. spend and spend some more.
Joseph
June 29th, 2010
9:47 am
Is it a problem when a number of the blogs are 2x longer than the article?
getalife
June 29th, 2010
9:49 am
Until they stop raping children and covering it up, they are fair game.
jt
June 29th, 2010
9:50 am
Ditto the State.
joan
June 29th, 2010
9:51 am
Reading these posts makes me truly understand how small and ugly the soul of so many people have become. I am not making any excuses for those rogue priests (out of the many thousands of priests) who have committed crimes, but the ugliness and hatred toward a religion that has given so many people peace and strength in adversity in their lives, is a sad commentary on how small and twisted the national spirit has become. I pray for this country and its people, that they will allow generosity of spirit and a grain of kindness to come into their lives.
USinUK
June 29th, 2010
9:51 am
SPQR – “does it bother you that muslims love a pedophile?”
wow. someone obviously hasn’t read a lot of the bible. like I said to Scout … mote … plank … eyes …
NIF – “All liberal activists are saints aren’t they?”
no. but nice try with the hyperbole. good luck with that.
Father O' Toole
June 29th, 2010
9:57 am
HAHA! Joan will be here all week, so don’t forget to tip your bartender!
neo-Carlinist
June 29th, 2010
9:58 am
what happens in Brussels stays in Brussles. what happens in the United States will be adjudicated in criminal and civil court. I know this isn’t cause for hope, but what is done is done. like any other power center, the Vatican/Catholic church serves its own interests and has been pretty good at stonewalling, or ironically assuming the role of “victim” (unfair, unjust persecution). go figure.
Phil Dolan
June 29th, 2010
10:01 am
Were there any little girls abused by priests? Were the catholic victims all little boys? The sin of pedophilia must be covered under the “Thou shalt not commit adultery” statute. The commandment must actually mean, “no sex outside of marriage, and even inside of marriage, only ‘being-fruitful and multiplying’ sex is allowed”. That excludes all gay sex, and nearly all heterosexual sex. God doesn’t want us having sex. Period. He gave us bodies that are not to be trifled with. We have to trust Him and stay figged.
Can we assume that the other nine commandments are being kept by most of the priests? Hopefully, there are very few idol worshiping, blaspheming, bank robber priests, or murdererer priests, or gossiping priests, or lying priests, or priests who don’t keep holy the Lords Day, or coveting thy neighbors wives and goods priests. or priests that don’t honor their father and mother.
No, there seems to only be gay pedophile priests.
Surely the data shows no greater concentration of pedophiles in the ranks of priests vs the general population. God gave us prayer and the sacraments to combat sin. The devil uses Lady Gaga and Glenn Beck.
It’s hardly fair. Lady Gaga makes me want to have sex with weird people. Glenn Beck makes me want to watch gay emoticon porn. (Don’t ask).
Please say a prayer 4 me.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
10:03 am
Jesus WAS married…He just didn’t wear his ring, so he could pick up girls…
But seriously, He had to be married. It was law. Ask any Rabbi.
Doggone/GA
June 29th, 2010
10:04 am
“but the ugliness and hatred toward a religion that has given so many people peace and strength in adversity in their lives, is a sad commentary on how small and twisted the national spirit has become”
It isn’t the crime so much – though that’s bad enough – it’s the cover-up that is the greater sin.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
10:05 am
USinUK,
mote … plank … eyes …
Well done!
TaxPayer
June 29th, 2010
10:07 am
Glenn Beck makes me want to watch gay emoticon porn.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:09 am
Hell, the worse pedophilia case in the United States happened here in the good old South, and it was good old Baptist Fundamentalists who got caught at it.
As a matter of fact, sexual abuse of young people by the clergy is lowest among Catholic clergy and the denomination that takes the prize for highest sexual abuse of children are the Baptists.
Every hear of Tony Alamo?
These evangelicals were not satisfied with merely sexually abusing children, they were running rings where they were selling the kids sexual favors. This one guy had molested at least one hundred children.
This is the same old anti-Catholicism rearing it’s ugly head in America again. If anyone cared at all about the sexual abuse of children, we’d be hearing a lot more about the abuse by Protestant clerics, which occurs at roughly the and a half times times the rate that it does among Catholic clergy.
Occasionally Fox news is smart enough to throw a bone out there and report that this is happening among Protestant clerics as well,
Sexual Abuse of Minors in Protestant Churches
The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report that the three major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships.
In light of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic Church beginning five years ago, religious and victims’ rights organizations have been seeking this type of data for years. It has been hard to come by since Protestant Churches are more de-centralized than the Catholic Church.
Responding to heavy media scrutiny, the Catholic Church has reported that since 1950, 13,000 “credible accusations” have been brought against Catholic clerics (about 228 per year.) The fact that this number includes all credible accusations, not just those that have involved insurance companies, and still is less than the number of cases in Protestant churches reported by just three insurance companies, should be making front page of The New York Times and the network evening news. It’s not.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286153,00.html
anti-Paul
June 29th, 2010
10:10 am
joan, I am not an expert (was Catholic for first 30 of 50 years – had what some would call a reverse epiphany. a naturally occuring bolt of lightning struck me off my horse and I have been agnostic since. I agree the Catholic faith has produced serenity and comfort for many, but I would argue these things are the result of a person’s spirituality or individual relationship with Christ. as far as contempt for the Vatican, which has produced suffering and pain for many others, I would suggest you not confuse a person’s deeply personal faith, with the impersonal nature of a huge religious/political institution like the Vatican. there are many lawful, professional police officers, but when a “rogue” police officer breaks the law, he is subject to the same laws is sworn to enforce.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
10:22 am
I told ya Sailors had class…
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/06/navy_cosby_award_062810w/
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:23 am
Oh and along with the previous story about just THREE insurance companies showing more sexual abuse of children by Protestant Clergy, the same guy went around the country polling protestants who were willing to talk to them about their own experiences, and a full 68 percent of the people he interviewed claimed claimed to have been in some way, sexually abused by a trusted figure in their Protestant church. And this was just the data from THREE insurance companies that provide insurance claim protection to Protestant Churches. There are several dozen of them in the United States.
If all of them were made to give up their client information, the scandal would be staggering. Or would it. Probably not, the Protestant majority would see to it that the news never gets out.
Normal
June 29th, 2010
10:24 am
All religions should be outlawed, even mine!
Normal
June 29th, 2010
10:25 am
NJ,
Let me guess…you’re Catholic, correct?
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:28 am
Or more data:
The data on the Protestant clergy tend to focus on sexual abuse in general, not on sexual abuse of children. Thus, strict comparisons cannot always be made. But there are some comparative data available on the subject of child sexual molestation, and what has been reported is quite revealing.
In a 1984 survey, 38.6 percent of ministers reported sexual contact with a church member, and 76 percent knew of another minister who had had sexual intercourse with a parishioner. In the same year, a Fuller Seminary survey of 1,200 ministers found that 20 percent of theologically “conservative” pastors admitted to some sexual contact outside of marriage with a church member. The figure jumped to over 40 percent for “moderates”; 50 percent of “liberal” pastors confessed to similar behavior.
In 1990, in a study by the Park Ridge Center for the Study of Health, Faith and Ethics in Chicago, it was learned that 10 percent of ministers said they had had an affair with a parishioner and about 25 percent admitted some sexual contact with a parishioner. Two years later, a survey by Leadership magazine found that 37 percent of ministers confessed to having been involved in “inappropriate sexual behavior” with a parishioner.
In a 1993 survey by the Journal of Pastoral Care, 14 percent of Southern Baptist ministers said they had engaged in “inappropriate sexual behavior,” and 70 percent said they knew a minister who had had such contact with a parishioner. Joe E. Trull is co-author of the 1993 book, Ministerial Ethics, and he found that “from 30 to 35 percent of ministers of all denominations admit to having sexual relationships—from inappropriate touching to sexual intercourse—outside of marriage.”[xviii]
According to a 2000 report to the Baptist General Convention in Texas, “The incidence of sexual abuse by clergy has reached ‘horrific proportions.’” It noted that in studies done in the 1980s, 12 percent of ministers had “engaged in sexual intercourse with members” and nearly 40 percent had “acknowledged sexually inappropriate behavior.” The report concluded that “The disturbing aspect of all research is that the rate of incidence for clergy exceeds the client-professional rate for physicians and psychologists.”[xix] Regarding pornography and sexual addiction, a national survey disclosed that about 20 percent of all ministers are involved in the behavior
In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”
Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:32 am
Absolutely. Or a very, very, very lapsed one. Have not been to a church in about 30 years.
But I recognize hypocrites when I see them.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:35 am
It is my theory that all of this hub bub about Catholic priests in the press is to draw attention away from the much larger problem. Abuse by other clerics.
Try googling “sexual abuse” Anglicans and Australia sometimes. That one continent and that denomination outdoes the entire world of Catholic sexual abuses. But you will never hear it outside of Australia, because Anglicanism is a “power” religion. That is a lot more Anglicans have sat in positions of Prime Minister and President than Catholics.
zealotsmakemelaugh
June 29th, 2010
10:41 am
Zealots (any side, any cause) are like good fart — full of hot air, funny noise, and no substance other than a lingering odor.
Y’all keep it up and continue to accomplish nothing.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:41 am
And of course the media has been absolutely VILE in it’s defining of most of the church scandals as “pedophilia” should be noted. There has been very little “true” pedophilia committed by Catholic priests.
That is by the official and scientific definition of pedophilia, which is sex with “prepubescent” children.
Again the media, in its attempts to sensationalize, creates a false atmosphere around the situation regardless of whether it if Protestant or Catholic clergy. The majority of the cases have occurred in do not fit the definition of pedophilia, because in the majority of the cases, the asserted victim has been on average, a sexually active teen ager.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:43 am
And of course, I could provide a huge laundry list of NON CHRISTIAN clergy in the U.S. who have committed some sort of sexual abuse with members of their religious flock. A lot of rabbis in there, but other religions as well. It is almost non existent among Muslim clerics in the U.S. for example.
anti-Paul
June 29th, 2010
10:45 am
NJ, with all due respect to your research skills, it’s not “anti-Catholicism rearing its ugly head” – it’s the civilized, anti-pedophilia world rearing its head. Do you expect anyone to ABSOLVE the priests who commited these crimes and the Church for ignoring them, because Fundamentalist Baptists or other Protestants are worse? You ae either a savvy criminal defense attorney (on the Vatican payroll) or a priest. Let me speak in the clearest of RC metaphors, the Vatican needs to do its penance and move on. This isn’t some spitting contest between Protestants and Catholics. And lest you forget, the very nature of “forgiveness” and “reconciliation” confirms a transgression has been occurred. I could spin off about how we’re all sinful by nature, but as I said, I got knocked off the horse and never got back on.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
10:59 am
Actually Jesus didn’t have to be married. The ask any Rabbi theory does not count, as Rabbinical Judaism as we know it today really did not start until after the Bar Kochba revolt of 132 AD.
There were many celibate splinter groups of Judaism at the time, like the Essenes, who were celibate, because they were dead certain the world was about to end, and therefore decided that marriage was not relevant in the “end times” Historians know this, and they also know that there were many groups like those who followed Jesus at that time, and their practices all varied from traditional Jewish behavior rather widely; The Jewish writings report of Jesus, but also of other Jewish messiah figures like Jesus and Honi ha M’agel, who lived about a 100 years before Jesus, and whose story remarkably mirrors that told in the New Testament of Jesus himself. It is thought by historians that when Jesus started his ministry, he was well aware of the stories about Honi, and mirrored the tales told about him.
Rather than being crucified, Honi was stoned to death by the followers of one of the contestants to the Maccabees throne Hyrcanus II.
If history went a little differently, we would all be wearing little rocks on chains around our necks.
The historian Josephus reports on close to 20 different “messiah” figures by the name of Jesus in his “History of the Jews” and also tells the story of Honi the Circle maker, so called because he would draw a circle in the dirt before performing a miracle.
Sound familiar. In the New Testament, before the woman caught in sin is taken to Jesus for judgement and he says “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” he is “drawing in the dirt”.
Add in the fact that Honi was also “stoned to death” and you get a clear idea of the backstory here.
You Can Go To Hell
June 29th, 2010
11:01 am
Inviting these kind of stupid, boneheaded comments about the Catholic Church in a public forum like this is shameful. Why don’t you get back to race-baiting and leave my religion alone?
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:03 am
Then why all the FOCUS on Catholic, and not on ALL sexual abuse, anti Paul.
It is considerable and it is not only proven that Protestants are involved but that they COVER IT UP as well.
Hooha
June 29th, 2010
11:04 am
“It is almost non existent among Muslim clerics in the U.S. for example.” Of course it is – have you seen Muslim women?
God
June 29th, 2010
11:07 am
They better go after the Jehova’s Witnesses and the Southern Baptists as well. Don’t get me started on those two.
I should have thrown down on them years ago.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:10 am
In fact a recent ANGLICAN theologian asks this question in his book “The New Anti Catholicism”
If the concern is TRULY to deal with sexual abuse, why attack the Christian clerical group with the LOWEST rate of it and IGNORE the ones with much higher ones.
You see, anti Catholicism has become the “last acceptable” prejudice in America. All others are “politically incorrect”
The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice
by Philip Jenkins. Publisher: Oxford University Press.
Catholic-Bashing: America’s Last Acceptable Prejudice
U.S. groups that are scrupulously PC about offending religious institutions make one major exception: the Roman Catholic Church
BY: Philip Jenkins
Historically anti Catholicism has a long and glorious history. Historically anti Catholic pogroms have always been preceded with claims of “pedophilia. For at least 500 years this has been the running pattern of anti Catholicism. Oliver Cromwell invoked it before suppressing Catholicism in Ireland.
Catholic bashing is the last acceptable prejudice in the United States and anti Catholicism in the US has been around and was very openly around well into the 1960’s
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:17 am
And of course, last but not least, Jay’s hypocrisy is astounding. If the assault were against any other religious clergy, this entire article would not be here.
To claim it is not anti Catholic is absurd, because there are constant attacks on aspects of the Catholic clergy, like celibacy as being a cause, yet as the statistics indicate that sexual abuse is just as prevalent among Protestant and Jewish clergy, then celibacy is not an issue.
But the media makes it one.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:19 am
I even remember having friends parents be turned down for jobs here in the sunny south as close as the 1970’s when it was not a problem to ask a person’s RELIGION on a job interview. If they did not answer Protestant, they did not get the job.
Father O' Toole
June 29th, 2010
11:26 am
Does NJ stand for nob job? hmmmmmm. You seem well versed in the topic. We all know those with the problem project the most. Now go rub yer beads.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:35 am
As I said, I am well versed in the topic. Its obvious you are not. The worse abusers in the U.S. according to all the statistics are the second largest denomination in the U.S. Baptists…
Anyone LEGITIMATELY concerned with children or even teen’s would be taking a good gander at their own religious institutions…
Or as Jesus put it:
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
John 8:7
As I said it’s all a scam, largely designed to attack a church, not to protect children.
In the same period we are talking about, the last 50 years, when Catholic priests are supposed to have committed these acts (and civil authorities, the police, have found in the last ten years that the number of ACTUAL real cases in which accused priest have been guilty has dropped from 90 percent of the claims to 40 percent…that is, more than half of the cases have been found to have been FALSE accusations, largely with the intent to extort money)
Over the last 50 years, 4.5 MILLION children between the 8th and 11th grade have been sexually abused by some official of their schools.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
11:49 am
Daily attacks on Catholic priests occur, though this past fall, the prestigious Baylor University in Texas found that the average church Protestant or Catholic with an average congregation size of 400 will have many cases of sexual assault on a person who has not reached the age of 18, every year.
The difference is that the Catholics are taking efforts to prevent such things from happening. The Baptists and others refuse to even admit it is happening and are doing nothing. So not only has it happened in the past, it is STILL happening. and continuing to happen.
What is being observed in the Catholic church is that past events of sexual abuse are being brought forth. But none that have occurred within the last ten years are being found. New cases are surprisingly rare. And in the current atmosphere, with the press so open to hear complaints, the parents of the abused would no longer have to go to the church to complain, they could go to the police, to the media, whoever and they would get to tell their tale. But you are not seeing much of this.
However current day Baptist abuses are occurring every day but only make the local media.
Unless the accused Baptist kills himself.
Former Baptist camp director charged with abuse found dead
Associated Baptist Press ^ | 5/25/2010
A former director of a North Carolina Baptist camp who was awaiting trial on six child-sex charges was found dead of an apparent suicide May 24.
A newspaper in Hertford, N.C., quoted the sheriff of Perquimans County as confirming that Stephen Carter, former director of Cale Retreat and Conference Center in Hertford from 2002 until his arrest last July, was found dead in a vehicle in Virginia Beach, Va., apparently from carbon-monoxide poisoning.
Carter was found dead in his parked truck on land he owns in Virginia Beach, Va. Margie Hobbs, public information officer with the Virginia Beach Police Department, said the wooded property on which Carter was found in the 4800 block of Blackwater Road is listed in his name.
Carter, 51, was out of jail on $80,000 bond on two counts each of engaging in sexual activities with a child, felony first-degree sex offense of a child and felony indecent liberties with a child. If convicted of the most serious offense he could have faced life in prison.
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5182/53/
As I said, you see no Baptist investigations into their own. No commissions, no cooperation with local civil authorities. No nothing.
Scout
June 29th, 2010
12:31 pm
USinUK:
May I recommend “The Grand Jihad” by Andrew C. McCarthy (federal prosecutor in the first World Trade Center bombing case).
You owe it to yourself !
jaye
June 29th, 2010
12:39 pm
“Which is exactly why we should not have an Ambassador to the Vatican.”
Scout,
Considering the Catholic church is everywhere on earth (1.2 billion members), with over 70 million registered American Catholics, 35% of Congress Catholic, 6 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices Catholic (including Chief Justice), 240 Catholic universities and colleges in the US alone (with influence on young), third largest healthcare network in US, etc., etc., our government thought is a good idea to have an Ambassador to the Vatican (as did 170 other countries). It’s want the the US government wanted!!
Now, maybe you can run for President or support some Democrat or Republican who wants to do away with an Ambassador. Fine! Good luck!
Scout
June 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
jaye :
Only one problem ……… it’s not a country. It’s a church.
Scout
June 29th, 2010
1:18 pm
jaye:
Here is the list of U.N. member nations. I could be wrong but I don’t see the Vatican listed there as a “member nation”. Neither do I see “Islam” (thank goodness).
Hooha
June 29th, 2010
1:50 pm
It’s a religion! It’s a country! It’s a religion AND a country! (It’s a floor wax! It’s a dessert topping! It’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!)
NJ
June 29th, 2010
2:06 pm
As I said, the focus on the Catholic Church without directing some of that attention to other churches is bias pure and simple. Considering that the Catholic Church and its social generosity outperforms all other denominations put together. Spends more on free or low cost health care for those who cannot afford it than all other Christian denominations put together. And runs more HOSPITALS than all the other denominations put together. The assertions that the actions of a small percentage of members of the Catholic hierarchy is a reflection on the entire organization is the purest form of bigotry imaginable.
What is forgotten is due to the “anachronism” of looking back at the 50’s and 60’s from the perspective of 2000 – 2010.
What the Catholic Church did back in those days was to follow the advise of the best “SECULAR AUTHORITIES” on the issue of “abuse” in those days.
When a problem was brought to any diocese, action tended to be to go to SECULAR experts, doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists and psychologists and ask for their best opinion on how to DEAL with each individual case.
In the fifties and sixties, these “specialists” told them that it was a curable illness and the best thing to do was to send them for counselling and treatment and then MOVE THEM away from the place they had committed the acts so as to break contact with the familiar places and people involved with them. This was the standard way of dealing with it. Not merely with the Catholics. The same was advised for teachers in Public schools who were caught doing this, in the Boy Scouts. These organizations all sought out the best expert advice of the time, and took it.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
2:24 pm
Another problem is the growing and hugely growing problem of FALSELY accused priests.
The recent Irish case of Paul Anderson is typical but there was also the case out in California where the Archbishop was accused of such actions. In the end, it was discovered that the accusers had a LONG history of suing just about anyone to get a settlement and so keep the scandal out of the newspaper.
And you would be surprised how many organizations caved to this sort of threat. They’d rather cough up some dough then even have the remotest aspersion cast upon their organization.
THE grotesque figure of Paul Anderson, convicted of making the false accusation that a priest buggered him, received a four-year sentence for his lies.
Rightly so. His mendacity damaged not only the unfortunate priest who lived under the darkest of clouds for four years but this liar and failed extortionist also deeply hurt those who have been genuine victims of clerical sexual abuse.
The case may deter victims coming forward to make a valid complaint because of the fear they will not be believed. It will raise fears in the minds of vulnerable and damaged abuse victims that if they are not believed by the State authorities and are unable to prove abuse which occurred many years ago that they will become the accused.
Yet the DPP was absolutely right to pursue Anderson for his lies. On the other side of the coin there are many religious who have been falsely accused of sexual or physical abuse while those who gave false witness against them have got away with it.
The case raises many questions – not least for the organisation One-in-Four whose good work on behalf of victims has been tainted. The organisation’s unwitting complicity in championing Paul Anderson in his bid to extort money from the church has reduced its standing in the eyes of many.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/falsely-accused-priest-highlights-abuse-dilemma-892574.html
Then there was the Texas case of a Republican law firm basically getting people to accuse Catholic priests of abuse, telling them they would “settle out of court”. It was no big deal, easy picking these days. The fact that all of the Priests were Hispanics in favor of amnesty for undocumented Mexicans loomed largely in the investigation of this Republican law firm
NJ
June 29th, 2010
2:37 pm
And my favorite recent false accusation was from a 17 year old girl. She accused the priest of molesting her.
What ACTUALLY happened as determined by the local POLICE, was that the girl approached a very young and handsome priest, intensely infatuated with the man, and offered sexual favors to the priest.
In his best manner the priest said, sorry I am celibate and we ain’t going there. The young girl feeling very spurned, accused the priest, who was removed immediately laicized. Even though he was proven completely innocent when the police and counselors got the truth out of her, because her story kept changing under cross examination, the priest has not been allowed to return to his vocation.
To date one organization has found that over 2000 priests have been falsely accused of abuse.
OSEPH MAHER was just minding his business. Then one day, a falsely accused priest needed help.
It all started in April 2002 when a visiting priest in his local parish was accused of raping a 40-year-old choir member. Convinced he was innocent, Maher, two other businessmen and a priest pulled together money and lawyers for the priest’s defense. The priest was acquitted about six months later.
The story garnered international media attention. Soon, other accused priests and their friends began contacting Maher, a Fortune 500 consultant, for help. As a result, Opus Bono Sacerdotii (“work for the good of the priesthood”) was born.
As president of the Detroit-based Opus Bono Sacerdotii, Maher has appeared on many television and radio networks, including CNN, Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS, and National Public Radio. He recently spoke to Register correspondent Sue Ellin Browder about his vocation.
What do you see as the mission of Opus Bono Sacerdotii?
As we say on our website, our purpose is to find “solutions to the problems confronting priests and religious in accordance with the authentic teaching of the Church, and of the Holy Father and his predecessors.”
How many priests have you helped?
To date, more than 2,000 priests have contacted us for assistance…
One often sees in the media that an accusation against a priest is “credible.” What does this mean?
The term credible, as it’s typically used today, comes from the psychological community.
And in the psychological community, this word means only that “the statement came from the source.” It has nothing to do with whether the statement is true or false.
So if Joe Blow said he was harmed, then it’s credible because Joe Blow said it. Whether Joe Blow is telling the truth or not doesn’t mean a hill of beans.
…So you’re saying that a credible charge doesn’t mean a priest is guilty?
Correct. “Credible,” as it’s used by the Church and the media, has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. It just means the person who said it really did say it. And most people don’t realize that.
How long does it take a priest, if he is falsely accused, to clear his good name?
Often it never happens. The canonical process to determine a priest’s guilt or innocence can take a year or longer. Meanwhile, in the “court of public opinion” — that is, in the media — the priest’s good name is often destroyed, even if he’s innocent…
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/3159
So when we started this charade in the 1990’s the media and others asserted that 90 percent of the accusations were “credible” without defining what credible means.
Over the last 17 years or so, this percentage has dropped HUGELY. With the number of accusation deemed to have some possible validity not merely by the church, but by civil authorities, has dropped to 40 percent.
Need another case?
The saga of Monsignor Michael Smith Foster
In August 2002, Monsignor Michael Smith Foster, the chief canon lawyer for the Archdiocese of Boston, was accused of sexual abuse by a man whose credibility was almost immediately called into question. After a 76-day ordeal in which he was twice removed from duty, Foster was reinstated in October, sobered by his experience.
http://faculty.uml.edu/sgallagher/foster.htm
Tons and tons of cases like this. You always see the accusations.. You rarely see the fact that the guy was determined to be innocent. Not by the Church. By the police.
NJ
June 29th, 2010
7:26 pm
Let me tell you what you will never see. You will never see the government investigating the Anglican Church for sexual abuse of children. You will never see the German government investigating the Lutheran Church for abuse of children. You actually did see the Finnish Lutherans themselves coming and and reporting childhood abuse by Lutheran Ministers in Finland…but you saw LITTLE action taken against such ministers by the government:
“Publicity around paedophilia in the Catholic Church has prompted victims of sexual abuse in Finland’s Evangelical Lutheran Church to speak out, the Finnish church says.
“Some of these cases are very old,” Martti Esko, director of family issues at the church council, told AFP, adding that cases had “emerged from different parts of the country.”
“Some of these have already expired legally, some are being investigated and for some there have been convictions. Clearly this issue has now emerged,” Esko said, but declined to speculate on the number of cases that had come out.
The church said in a statement issued on Monday that it had become aware of “some cases” of sexual child abuse since scandals involving paedophile priests began rattling Catholic Church communities across the western world.
Esko said the statement, which called for an end to the culture of silence that surrounds paedophilia and domestic violence, was released to encourage more open discussion and enable victims to speak out about abuse. “Pastors are hardly involved in the (reported) cases (in Finland),” Esko said, adding that the church had since 2003 required criminal background checks on all staff working with children.”
There is now considerable evidence in light of the German Catholic scandals that the government in Germany is blocking investigation into the largest Christian denomination in that country, the Lutherans. Many groups have been attempting to access the records on this but because there are
“official” churches as well as government agencies which are designed to basically provide financial support for these churches as well as to protect them, the information is deemed private and classified.
And of course little reported is the fact that in Canada, one by one, Anglican Archdiocese are approaching bankruptcy due to claims made against non celibate Anglican Priests.
Some Protestants in Europe, as in the case in Finland, are getting fairly pissed off, because they expect that given the Catholic scandals as well as the restitution they are being given in cases of abuse, that if they reported cases of sexual abuse by Protestant ministers, they would get similar justice. But the fact that most protestant countries, even though they claim to be “secular” states, have “OFFICIAL” state religions. Britain is officially Anglican. The Netherlands, officially “Dutch Reformed” Germany, Scandanavia and Finland, officially Lutheran, and because of this they are protected, often by “State Secrets” acts. While all these governments claim to have no “official religion” in all of these nations the “official” religion not only has great influence and direct relationship with government, they often take part in making policy in these countries.
For example, much of the policy regarding abortion law was directly written by members of the Dutch Reformed Church in the Netherlands. Basically the reason that the Netherlands has the lowest rate of abortion in the world is that the Dutch Reformed Church wrote the legislation that made contraception a government provided resource, as well as created legislation that offered a pregnant woman a choice of being paid by the government to have a child, stay home and raise it until the age of 18. Cool law, huh.
Same thing happened in Germany. The Lutheran Church got written into the German constitution that human life begins at conception and so basically it takes a rather huge bunch of laws to make abortion legal in Germany (the mothers right to life and health are also legally protected by the constitution, so if it is the unborn child who is killing the mother, she has the right to self defense. The German Constitutions does not consider the unborn “innocent” when it comes to killing or threatening the mother, because it gives “equal” rights to both parties, and not special rights to the unborn. However, the laws and constitutional issues in these cases are all things which were “written” and legislated by the various official, majority churches in these countries. This is because in the Protestant nations of Europe, there is no legal concept of “separation of church and state” Never really has been. The easiest way to tell is to look at any country that still has a monarch, constitutional or otherwise, and see what religion this monarch is. In the Netherlands, the monarch must always be “Dutch Reformed”
And of course the idea of a Catholic King or Queen of the United Kingdom. just is not going to happen.
On the other hand Catholic Countries have more of a tendency to keep Church and state affairs separate.