McChrystal ousted, replaced by Petraeus

President Obama dismissed Gen. McChrystal today.

“I welcome debate among my team, but I won’t tolerate division,” Obama said, noting the strict code of conduct required of our military. “The strength and greatness of our military is rooted in the fact that this code applies equally to newly enlisted privates and to general officer who command them.” He stressed the importance of the chain of command “and respect for civilian control over that chain of command.”

McChrystal, who met the president briefly this morning, released a statement confirming his resignation and reiterating his support for U.S. policy in Afghanistan.

Obama replaced McChrystal with Gen. David Petraeus. His standing and reputation should reassure leaders in Afghanistan and in NATO capitols while minimizing the chaos inevitable in a change of command.

Given the circumstances, the situation has been handled about as well and as swiftly as possible.

396 comments Add your comment

Innocent Bystander

June 23rd, 2010
2:34 pm

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

June 23rd, 2010
2:39 pm

Well, I’m with alot of good Conservatives on this blog. If the President is somebody I don’t like, a general can crap all over him and should be left alone. If the President is somebody I like, well, then, we got to have Law and Order and the general’s got to be fired.

I’m glad I could clear that up for everybody. You’re welcome.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
2:39 pm

“Given the circumstances, the situation has been handled about as well and as swiftly as possible.”

Agreed.

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
2:40 pm

I saw that one coming a mile away. I hope now we’ll think about pulling out of Deathghanistan.

Innocent Bystander

June 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm

McChrystal just joined Fallon on the list of 4 stars who should have known better. That’s what they get for contracting PR people when they have their very own military public affairs people.

Normal

June 23rd, 2010
2:41 pm

Obama hit several gracious notes about McChrystal and his service, saying that he made the decision to sack him “with considerable regret.” And yet, said he said that the job in Afghanistan cannot be done now under McChrystal’s leadership, asserting that the critical remarks from the general and his inner circle in the Rolling Stone magazine article displayed conduct that doesn’t live up to the necessary standards for a command-level officer.

Absolutely correct…

Obama seemed to suggest that McChrystal’s military career is over, including in his praise of the general that the nation should be grateful “for his remarkable career in uniform.”

…and rightfully so….

Normal

June 23rd, 2010
2:44 pm

Afghans want McKrystal to stay…

That’s because he’s paying warlords to pay the Taliban to let his supply convoys alone.

Any first year Military student knows if your supply lines aren’t safe, you’re not winning. Bring them home!

Disgusted

June 23rd, 2010
2:44 pm

Just a quick question here. Prior to this move, Petraeus, as head of Central Command, was McChrystal’s boss. Now, I suppose somebody else will be appointed to head Central Command. So isn’t moving Petraeus to replace McChrystal in effect a demotion?

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
2:45 pm

DDR

Here’s another one where I’m not jumping on President Obama for the way he’s handling things. Mark it down. :-)

How’s it going in the fields of the shiftless? Fine and dandy here with the sorry, low-down and good-for-nothings.

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm

Maybe it’s a “coporat” move. You know when they make you do “more with less”?

Innocent Bystander

June 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm

Disgusted – It’s possible, but he will more than likely hold joint command until they can fill McChrystal’s job. It happens all the time. Not necessarily a demotion, but added responsibility.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
2:49 pm

as I said yesterday, it’s now Obama’s war, which is kind of ironic, seeing how he ran on an anti-war platform. seems disnigenous for Obama to refer to McChrystal’s “remarkable career”. My guess is, historians will not be so generous when assessing Obama’s career.

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
2:49 pm

I know!! 2 in ONE WEEK!! Hell must be cold……

The shiftless are resltess and BORED. This place is so dead!! There are no tax scandals, no villians, no need to think of inventive ways to make crap not stink….

Dull, dull, DULL.

Jay

June 23rd, 2010
2:51 pm

Technically, yes, disgusted.

As a practical matter, no. On operational matters, Petraeus is probably the most powerful person in uniform and has a direct line to Obama whenever he feels the need to use it. Just as important, everybody knows it. The CentCom commander won’t be telling Petraeus how to do his business.

Bystander, I’ve worked with Duncan Boothby, the civilian PR guy who handled McChrystal and has now resigned. Smart guy …. usually. The military needs that civilian input because those trained within the military are too insular and inexperienced in how the media world operates. They have no real idea how the outside world perceives what they do, and the smarter ones know it.

In my conversations with officers over the years, they have as many questions about the media as I do about the military.

stands for decibels

June 23rd, 2010
2:51 pm

“Given the circumstances, the situation has been handled about as well and as swiftly as possible.”

Agreed.

looks like, yep.

(see, j-nix! I do *so* notice!)

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
2:52 pm

Agree or disagree with the move, the President acted rapidly and with resolve at a critical moment. I’m hoping he took a play from Truman’s book…

Jefferson

June 23rd, 2010
2:52 pm

The entire cohesion of the military is “yes sir” and keep your mouth shut. KP duty and take the stars.

jconservative

June 23rd, 2010
2:53 pm

Any way you cut it McChrystal showed that he is a poor soldier.

Obama did not make a correct decision; he made the only possible decision.

Hillbilly Deluxe

June 23rd, 2010
2:54 pm

For what it’s worth…..

For all the high tech weaponry of today, the way to win a war is still with boots on the ground. You have to inflict casualties and you have to be willing to take casualties and you have to take and hold territory. If you aren’t willing to do that, you shouldn’t be there. At this point, it seems that very few people are willing to make that commitment or think that it’s worth it.

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
2:55 pm

DDR, sfb

See? I told you so! :-)

DDR
Nah, h3ll hasn’t frozen over. I’ve just got this incurable habit of taking the side of the underdog…and the puppy has been getting kicked a lot lately…

@@

June 23rd, 2010
2:56 pm

So what….does this mean Obama has demoted McChrystal to “corpseman”?

Summer offensive postponed?

This is kinda like asking the jury to disregard what was said. Yeah, like that’ll happen.

stands for decibels

June 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm

it’s now Obama’s war, which is kind of ironic, seeing how he ran on an anti-war platform

Please. Stop. This.

Obama wasn’t the “anti war” candidate. He opposed invading Iraq. Period. That opposition gave him the edge in the primaries; too many voters simply couldn’t forgive Hillary for her war resolution vote.

But Obama made it quite clear, back in 2002, that he was “someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.”

he went on:

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars. After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. [...]

Alles klar jetzt?

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:02 pm

@@

Nah, I think it means McChrystal will now be referred to as Ret. Gen. McChrystal.

Matilda

June 23rd, 2010
3:03 pm

Question:

Which major political party is currently experiencing a rarely-seen degree of division within its ranks and a serious lack of definitive leadership? New “Hero,” anyone? What actions would make someone a “hero” to the frustrated masses within this particular party?

Hmmm….

joe

June 23rd, 2010
3:04 pm

If BO had to do it, then his choice in G. Pet is a great choice, so I give our Pres kudos on that. Wasn’t G. Pet in command in Iraq when it turned around? Not sure…

Abrazos

June 23rd, 2010
3:04 pm

After General McChrystal’s part in the coverup of Pat Tilman’s death by “friendly fire”, it is past time for his removal. Perhaps he realized it’s time to go as well, and that was the reason he allowed himself to be thrust in an untenable position by his candor in the Rolling Stone article.

Innocent Bystander

June 23rd, 2010
3:05 pm

Jay I respect that opinion about military pao types being insular. but I spent 10 1/2 years as a marine corps pao and that insularity is exactly what McChrystal needed. Civilian advisors are great in helping us better understand how civilian media works, but when it comes to public affairs he should have relied on his military PAO – if he did, this never would have happened. I think military PAOs understand how the military is viewed on the outside world more than you think, especially now-a-days with media on demand. I just think McChrystal found the wrong guy (civilian) to help him.

Fox News explains it better than me! I know consider the source, but this gives a little more insight on us inexperienced PAOs.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/06/23/jd-gordon-gen-stanley-mcchrystal-afghanistan-fallon-pace-military-public/

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:05 pm

joe

He was…

Normal

June 23rd, 2010
3:06 pm

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:02 pm

SoCo,
…and he’ll become the Fox News Military Commentator… :)

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:06 pm

All you neo-traditionalists yammering about the chain of command and the UCMJ, and “respect for civilian control of the military” are missing the big picture. It’s not 1776, or 1865, or 1945. It’s 2010. Gee, D-Day/Normandy was such as success, all we need to do is execute a massive amphibious landing in Afghanistan. Or better yet, let’s take a page from Nimitz’s playbook and sink all the Taliban/al Qeda aircraft carriers, like we did at Midway. We’re not fighting a conventional war. Did any of you read the RS article? See what McChrystal said about the guy (Jones, I think) who “thinks it’s 1985″. At the very least, Obama has wasted a year (and another $half-trillion). This is like a divorce. Didn’t Obama and his crowd vet these guys. What does it say when a general is fired for his “off the battlefield” performance?

BADA BING

June 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm

obama, when you are in a hole, STOP DIGGING.

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
3:09 pm

Dave R.

June 23rd, 2010
3:11 pm

josef, your 2:55?

I am reminded about that picture of LBJ holding that hound up by the ears he got into so much trouble with.

So the whole ears – puppy thing just naturally made me think of Hope & Change. :D

TM

June 23rd, 2010
3:12 pm

Isn’t this thy guy the dems were calling “General BetrayUs” and running ads about not too long ago?

joan

June 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm

McChrystal should have resigned, and then let the American public know what fools our adminstration are. He just couldn’t have it both ways. He knew he was falling on his sword. As thin skinned as he knows Obama is, he absolutely knew what would happen. So, it begs the question, American people are we ever going to wake up to the idiocy of sending our young men to be killed in a hell hole, and in which we know we can never, ever build a democracy. Heck, we are having a hard time hanging on to democracy in this country. I think we are headed toward a socialist dictatorship.

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm

Normal

His language might be a little salty, but his disdain for Obama and his administration makes him perfect for the job. :D

josef

:lol:

neo

What is the military without it’s structure and discipline?

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm

@@: So what….does this mean Obama has demoted McChrystal to “corpseman”?

Probably not. I think what will happen is he’ll keep his rank; but now he’s going to need to start using his pension.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:15 pm

sfd, so, Obama is opposed to rash wars, but is OK making rash decisions when it comes to the warfighters? and just a reminder, 9/11 was 9 years ago. we’re not at war, we’re an occupation force trying to stabilize perhaps the most unstable nation in history. as I said yesterday, there are no “hearts and minds” to win in a nation run by warlords. the Taliban represented the closest thing to stability in 1,000 years and they acheived this by brute force. So, as I said, now it’s Obama’s war.

Matilda

June 23rd, 2010
3:17 pm

There’s already a FB group touting him as a “politician.”

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:18 pm

So, it begs the question, American people are we ever going to wake up to the idiocy of sending our young men to be killed in a hell hole, and in which we know we can never, ever build a democracy

I though the original mission was to get OBL and AQ. Once the mission changed directions, it began to lose it’s meaning and purpose. Thatdid not just recently occur though. The way we’re handling things in Afghanistan would be the same as a doctor performing a colonoscopy with a firehose and a flashlight. The job will eventually get done, but not as efficiently if the correct tools were used in the correct manner.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
3:19 pm

Well, I’m kinda sure that if the situation woulda been a regimental commander shooting the breeze with his staff and battalion leaders and they said stuff like “when’s McChrystal gonna get some stones and win this” and such about McChrystal and his staff, that the regimental commander would’ve been fired quicker than Obama fired McChrystal.

Hi DDR!

“I hope now we’ll think about pulling out of Deathghanistan.”

Don’t count on it. In the same statement he also said he was committed to doing whatever it takes to winning in Afghanistan.

Disgusted

I believe he’ll hold that job in addition to his Centcom command. Don’t know how long he can keep up with both but I’d imagine it’d be just a few months.

Or until the drawdown gets underway…

jconservative

“Any way you cut it McChrystal showed that he is a poor soldier.”

Not according to the Commander in Chief -

joe

“Wasn’t G. Pet in command in Iraq when it turned around? ”

Yes. And the architect of the strategy that turned things around. (Cue the chorus of “but…. but… the Shiites were sick of al Qaeda! Or was it the Sunnis? Anyhow, someone was sick of them and Petraeus didn’t do diddly squat ’cause Bush invaded a sovereign nation that never attacked us and…”).

Jay

June 23rd, 2010
3:19 pm

Bystander, I agree with several of the points made in that piece. PR is not a respected specialty in the military ranks, so those who see a general’s stars in their future avoid it and aren’t really listened to.

Boothby was not relatively inexperienced, as far as I could tell. He had worked in Baghdad and with Lt. Gen. Caldwell at Fort Leavenworth trying to modernize the Army’s whole approach to media. I don’t know how long he had been with McChrystal, but that’s a sensitive post that reflected the high regard in which he was held.

But again, not defending what happened there…

The military understands that it has to change its relationship with the media, and Petraeus is perhaps the best at that. He and I have exchanged emails in the past, a point I mention not to brag but to demonstrate how broad his outreach is. They understand that public support and understanding for what they do is as important to success as bullets and MREs.

McChrystal’s downfall, like that of Fallon and others, is evidence of what happens when overly insulated senior officers are exposed to the media but don’t know what they’re doing because they’re inexperienced. Modern wars are increasingly fought and won in the media, and the military simply has to get better at it.

stands for decibels

June 23rd, 2010
3:20 pm

Isn’t this thy guy the dems were calling “General BetrayUs”

No. Elected dems condemned the ham-handed Moveon ad that used that particular phrase.

Jay

June 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm

And I was hearing that nickname used WITHIN the military well before Moveon used it, usually by folks who thought Petraeus was a kissup to the press and his superiors.

Hmmmmmmm

June 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm

I thought the chosen one was going to make everything OK in Iraq and Afghan…… I think he has duped you people, again,,, Oh well, you get what you voted for….

Jay

June 23rd, 2010
3:23 pm

One more thing: As I understand it, Petraeus will NOT be holding both commands.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:24 pm

QUESTION: “what’s the military without structure and discipline?”
ANSWER: a successful, non-conventional 21st century fighting force.

Courtney

June 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm

The Pat Tillman cover-up was tragic. Everyone knows that the soilders he commanded killed him because they did not like him. I truly believe that is was not a mistake. How can you not know a fellow soilder?

stands for decibels

June 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm

So, as I said, now it’s Obama’s war.

I’m not questioning that. (Does anyone?)

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
3:25 pm

Hi SoCom!

“The way we’re handling things in Afghanistan would be the same as a doctor performing a colonoscopy with a firehose and a flashlight”

Shhh. You’re scaring Bosch and josef. They have c’s scheduled.

joan

“McChrystal should have resigned, and then let the American public know what fools our adminstration are. ”

Doesn’t work that way. He serves at the pleasure of the president. He doesn’t resign when he feels like it. He may, in extraordinary cases such as this, offer to resign,but the decision is not his.

Pres Obama went with Gen McChrystal’s recommendations. So…. does that make McChrystal a fool, too?

He did illuminate the differences between some factions – State, DoD, and within – that exist, and that was not proper.

“I think we are headed toward a socialist dictatorship.”

Given the megaseats the Republicans are going to win in Novermber, that sure is an interesting view of the effect of giving Republicans a Congressional majority.

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
3:26 pm

neo: At the very least, Obama has wasted a year (and another $half-trillion). This is like a divorce. Didn’t Obama and his crowd vet these guys.

Gates recommended him to Obama.

Joan: McChrystal should have resigned, and then let the American public know what fools our adminstration are

Like most of the Bush people did?

Kitty Conrad

June 23rd, 2010
3:26 pm

This is the same Gen. Petraeus MoveOn.org (liberal/Democrats) called General Betrayus and claimed he was cooking the books. Looks like another case of Obama trying to do something like Bush 43.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decision2008/story?id=3581727&page=1

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
3:27 pm

DDR
Left you a link downstairs…the argument is that this is a “limitation…” but this is not something that can be limited…you either got it or you don’t…

DAVE

Hadn’t thought of that one, but the image does somehow fit.. :-)

Chris D.

June 23rd, 2010
3:27 pm

For once Obama ACTUALLY made a decisoin, instead of thinking and talking things to death! Good move. Of course I guess hie lefties will be in an uproar, as I quote Obama’s pals at Move-on.org, who call the honorable General Petreuas “General Be-Tray-US” is back in command!

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:30 pm

neo

The day our military ditches their discipline and structure is the day we doom ourselves. Besides the hardware, that is what separates our military from others around the world. The problem wih Afghanistan has nothing to do with the discipline and structure of our military. The problem is that the people making the decisions do not appear to understand what our military is used for.

You don’t train and equip a force to kill and then send them on a mission to pick flowers and hand out groceries. Our military isn’t built to be a nation builder. It is built and equiped for destruction plain and simple.

alot

June 23rd, 2010
3:31 pm

not an obamination supporter, but obama did the right thing. i am a military veteran and we had a saying back in my day. In private, fight each other. In public, fight the enemy. when the general talks negatively about obama, they in fact became enemies.

now, i can go on hating on everything obama.

DebbieDoRight

June 23rd, 2010
3:32 pm

Hi Paul!! Don’t count on it. In the same statement he also said he was committed to doing whatever it takes to winning in Afghanistan.

I’m hoping that was just a “screen bite” for later.

Courtney – Tillman was a PRIVATE when he was in the military — he didn’t command any troops.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
3:34 pm

The tv news show I saw said he would continue in both positions.

Print media is saying he’ll leave CENTCOM.

Could be he’ll take over for Afg and hold onto CENTCOM while a replacement’s found. Personally, I think they ought to cut orders relieving him of CENTCOM and putting his deputy in charge pending a new selection.

Does show how Afg’s front and center, Iraq’s way on the back burner and nothing much is expected to happen with Iran for a while, though.

Road Scholar

June 23rd, 2010
3:34 pm

joan: When are you going to stop your idiocy? robably never.

Bush declared that our mission in Afghanastan was to get OBL and AQ. So when did anyone in leadership in government state that we were there to set up a democracy?

Hmmmmmmm

June 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm

Paul

The Republicans are just as GOOFY as the Democrats…. They had their chance and what did they do…….. NOTHING! It’s time to take this government back! Vote them all out!

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:35 pm

Paul

I guess I could have thought of a better analogy. How about performng a triple-bypass with a chainsaw? :)

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm

DDR

“I’m hoping that was just a “screen bite” for later.”

Sort of like “fierce advocate?” :-)

Outhouse GoKart

June 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm

McKrystal is probably most thrilled to be out of direct contact with that idiot Obama.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm

sfd, what I mean is; it is going to take him down, like Vietnam did to LBJ. he didn’t run as a hawk. sure he said he would continue to hunt/kill terrorists, as if such a position is a liability. he tried to throw the neo-cons and hawks a bone by “surging” in AfPak and stepping up the Predator strikes, but it backfired. do you know anything about McChrystal? about the way special ops forces operate? about what McChrystal refers to as “counterinsurgency math”? Every time we take out a mud hut with a hellfire missile the White House pats itself on the back for “killing a terrorist” but what the WH doesn’t acknowledge is that the other 5 civilians killed will produce 50 new terrorists. McChrystal represented a new breed of officer – rough around the edges, and often blunt, but he got results. I think Obama got played and he doesn’t even know it. The fact that he is assuring America (Military Industrial Complex) he is “committed to winning” a war he has to know we cannot possibly win, suggests to me that he bought a pig in a poke.

seabass

June 23rd, 2010
3:37 pm

He could not do the job due to all the red tape. He was the right man for the job and our administration is shooting themselves in the foot over name calling. Sad and a step backwards really.

Innocent Bystander

June 23rd, 2010
3:37 pm

Jay – the short answer I agree. I just get passionate when miltary PAOs are afterthoughts and when people don’t think we understand media. most of us are trained print and broadcast journalist that work on weekly newspapers and tv shows – so we are in fact, journalists to.

out desire to understand meida is code gor how do we get media to pay attention to other things besides death and scandal. we understand deadlines, objectivity and drawing in readers and viewers, but the PR person in us wants the ajc and fox to talk about the schools built and assistance in our communities and third world countries.

i’m all for bringing in advisors to help understand our civilian counterparts, but he needed a military PAO to help assess the risks and credibility issues from a DoD perspective.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
3:39 pm

SoCom

You’re not formulating these thoughts out loud while you’re screening passengers, are you?

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:40 pm

DebbieDoRight, then when can we expect Gates’s resignation/termination?

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
3:45 pm

Paul

Nah, I’m done for the day. I do sometimes compare those type things to the way we handle immigration though. I would not make those thoughts public though.

TaxPayer

June 23rd, 2010
3:45 pm

Obama should reassign McChrystal to handle the Gulf invasion. Those darned tarballs are sneaky little critters.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
3:48 pm

Southern Comfort, so, are you saying the only way to achieve victory (distruction) is through structure and discipline? The German army was one of the most structured and disciplined armies in history, but they were beaten by the Allies. Does the Taliban strike you as “structured and disciplined”?

josef nix

June 23rd, 2010
3:49 pm

SoCo
I ain’t tellin’ you my doctor’s name!

And for those who are saying it’s Obama’s war…well, yes, it is and looks to me like he’s taking it on…

stands for decibels

June 23rd, 2010
3:49 pm

what I mean is; it is going to take him down, like Vietnam did to LBJ.

It certainly could; I don’t think anyone following this doubts that.

Every time we take out a mud hut with a hellfire missile the White House pats itself on the back for “killing a terrorist” but what the WH doesn’t acknowledge is that the other 5 civilians killed will produce 50 new terrorists.

You really think this WH doesn’t consider that possibility? (Ok, maybe not, given that it’s always been happy to beat up on the dirty hippies that constitute “the base…” but I digress.) it’s just that when I heard “5 civilians gets you 50 terrorists” I thought… haven’t I read that somewhere before? like, say, here?

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/12/20-0

“If U.S. planners weren’t able to get it right in eight years, what makes them think they will get it right in the next 18 months?” asked Hadi Jawad, a member of the Dallas Peace Center.

Mayer said he and others just want to call attention to the wars and ask people for their support to end them.

“There’s a stigma that if you don’t support the wars, you’re somehow unpatriotic and un-American,” he said. “I think the opposite is true.

“My greatest fear in Afghanistan . . . because it’s impossible to avoid casualties . . . is that for every civilian we kill, I’m afraid it’s going to breed another generation of people who hate our country.”

…and lotsa lotsa other places like that?

Ninja

June 23rd, 2010
3:55 pm

If he lasts that long, in ten years whatever the neocons are calling themselves will be calling for taking out the “Karzai” regime, and the whole thing will start over again.

Del

June 23rd, 2010
4:00 pm

I would agree with it was handled about as well and as swiftly as possible. It’s troubling that it happened at all. How did McCyrystal, a career soldier with years of such a stellar record of accomplishment demean himself and the military with such a stupid lapse of judgment. He would have to be a reflection of attitude within his subordinate chain of command and that’s disconcerting. Hopefully, Obama has learned something as well.

AmVet

June 23rd, 2010
4:01 pm

For you lamebrain illiterates recently in love with the E word, here is a real example:

WASHINGTON — Taliban and Afghan warlords are *extorting* some of the $2.16 billion the Defense Department has paid to local contractors who transport food, water, ammunition and fuel to U.S. military forces in Afghanistan, according to a House investigation to be released today.

Trucking contractors say they pay as much as $150,000 a month to warlords in “protection” money, and investigators concluded that payments for safe passage are a significant source of Taliban funding, according to a report by the staff of Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., who heads the House national security and foreign affairs subcommittee.

In a letter to subcommittee members, Tierney criticized the Pentagon for a contract “that put responsibility for the security of vital U.S. supplies on contractors and their unaccountable security providers.” He wrote, “This arrangement has fueled a vast protection racket run by a shadowy network of warlords, strongmen, commanders and corrupt Afghan officials, and perhaps others.” He said the payoffs violate the law and appear “to risk undermining the U.S. strategy for achieving its goals in Afghanistan.”

Kill, baby, kill. There and along the Gulf Coast…

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
4:01 pm

are you saying the only way to achieve victory (distruction) is through structure and discipline?

No, the structure and discipline is what allows our military to operate as it is intended. When that structure and discipline is disrupted, you lose the ability to function at peak levels. Our military is trained to do a job. When you tighten the parameters in which they can operate, that will impede them, but not completely stop them. When you do that and set unrealistic goals for them, you pretty much set them up for an impossible mission.

As for the Germans, hubris rendered that strcture and discipline moot. There’s no way any military power will achieve what they set out to do regardless to who they are or what they have.

Does the Taliban strike you as “structured and disciplined”?

The Taiban strikes me as a group of bullies who do what they can because no one stops them. I would call them clever, but they are not the most structured and disciplined group there is. That is what makes them hard to fight. They have a structure but it’s not a rigid structure at all. There are probably some things that we could adapt from that, but as an overall strategy, it’s best when all forces are operating from the same playbook.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
4:05 pm

sfd, the “counterinsurgency math” was from McChrystal himself, quoted in the RS article, I believe. McChrystal’s approach was, if we kill a civilian and a terrorist, there is 1 dead terrorist, but the dead civilian will produce 10 new ones. Just after 9/11 I met a Special Forces (green beret) soldier at a college football tailgate party. Like most professional soldiers, he didn’t talk politics, but rather “the mission”. so I asked him, “how do we win a war on terrorism?” he said – without bravado or spewing Kool-Aid, “…we have to kill every Muslim male bewteen the ages of 5 and 35.” he then took a sip of beer and said, “…can you imagine if Geroge Bush went on TV and told America ‘this is how we’re going to win the war on terrorism.’”? We missed our chance to avenge 9/11 – if we ever had a chance. If this (Afgahnistan) is about lithium and precious metals, then let’s put away the American flags and “we’ll never forget” bumper stickers. I despised Bush and Cheney and their neo-con cronies, and I didn’t vote for Obama, but in many ways he’s much worse. He should know better, and he doesn’t have the “chops” to be a Bush or Cheney.

cliff zeider

June 23rd, 2010
4:09 pm

Hey, It’s time for Biden to go, and be replaced by the Lovely Shelia Jackson Lee

getalife

June 23rd, 2010
4:12 pm

At least he did not faint this time but the mission is to leave in July next year.

It was funny watching three gobp senators agreeing with the President.

Country first patriots and all that crap.

@@

June 23rd, 2010
4:15 pm

Oops! fell victim to the dreaded dead threaded.

Former Governor Rod Blagojevich believed that Obama wasn’t formally advocating to appoint Valerie Jarrett to his former Senate Seat because Obama didn’t want it to be public knowledge he was pushing for a black nominee, according to tapes played in the Blagojevich trial today.

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Obama-Didnt-Want-it-Known-He-Was-Pushing-for-a-Black-Senator-Witness-96910599.html#ixzz0rikRGs7f

Burris wasn’t black enough? Too black?

What????????

getalife

June 23rd, 2010
4:18 pm

Do we have to get our news from Rolling Stone now? The corporate media should be ashamed but like the gobp, they have no shame.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
4:19 pm

off topic

Dems are a little late to the “Politics of Fear” party, aren’t they?

“Pelosi asks for donations to fend off potential GOP investigations”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/105013-pelosi-asks-for-donations-to-fend-off-gop-investigations

I notice she didn’t say what possible grounds they could have. But after what Dems orchestrated in Alaska, I suppose it doesn’t matter -

TaxPayer

June 23rd, 2010
4:22 pm

The Dems have an orchestra! Cool.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
4:24 pm

getalife

I suppose the pull is timeless –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ux3-a9RE1Q

Somehow, I don’t think The General bought five copies for his mother -

Dusty

June 23rd, 2010
4:26 pm

Seems to me Obama looked like a wimp firing a warrior. He couldn’t be brave enough to say ” You broke the rules and I’m firing you.’

NO, indeed. He had to purr and simper a bit about good service and lateda when he certainly did not like or want to keep McChrystal, the unhappy camper . The superficiality oozed out like a community organizer fooling the public, not a Commander-inChief. It was a “smoothie” from a veteran smooth-talker.

OH please, let Bill Gates stick around long enough to inject common sense. He is our only hope in the White House. When he speaks, you know he means it honestly.. It is the few times you actually get direct speech without coverups that prevail in this administration.

tm

June 23rd, 2010
4:26 pm

Lets see if I got this right.. He removes his hand-picked choice for someone he had no confidence in just 2 years ago.” McChrystal was Obama’s hand-picked choice, for whom the previously serving general, David McKiernan, was unceremoniously removed. That switch was one of Obama’s first major decisions as commander-in-chief. tThis is now called a good decision?

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
4:26 pm

Governor Rod Blagojevich believed

That’s enough to sprinkle a little discredit on that thought. Blago probably believes in Bigfoot too. That dude’s mind is messed up. Had Obama, Emmanuel or anyone from Obama’s administration contacted Blago directly, he would have a leg to stand on. However, all politicians probably play that game of who they would like to see replace them. The person making the pick has the option of giving their pick the nod or not.

godless heathen

June 23rd, 2010
4:29 pm

sfd, They don’t hate us for what we do, they hate us for who we are.

SPQR(laissez Faire)

June 23rd, 2010
4:31 pm

So we have the general the afghans want, out, because he made fun of a piece of sh*t like Joke Biden ..I didn’t agree with Mcchrystal on his strategy and lame ROE, but I can safely assume he has a tenfold better understandiong of the war than the big eared b@stard and his side kick, Bite me.

I guess in democrat circles, it’s not what you know or what performance you show, it’s who’s azz you kiss. If an employee made me money by doing the job better than anyone else has, he could call me a piece of sh*t to my face and i’d smile and say keep up the good work..cha ching..Conservatives care about results, leftists and media care about image.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
4:32 pm

Southern Comfort, c’mon now, you’re better than that. It wasn’t German “hubris” (you’ve been watching The Longest Day again). It was America’s resources and delayed (combat) entry into the war. Simply put, we killed more of them, and bombed their cities and industrial infrastructure into cinders. By the end of the war there were 13 and 14 year olds and septugenarians amongst the German ranks. And where can I find the “structure and discipline” in Abu Ghrib? Pat Tilman’s death? GITMO? Haditha? Nope, words like “structure and discipline” are for old school football coaches and the nuns at my old Catholic grammar school. I encourage you to read the late David Hackworth’s memoir; About Face. He used the mantra “out-G the G” (out guerilla the guerilla) when fighting the Viet Cong, and while his base camps were viewed as “undisciplined” by his superiors, his results were second to none.

Southern Comfort

June 23rd, 2010
4:32 pm

“Pelosi asks for donations to fend off potential GOP investigations”

Sounds like a case of, “What goes around, comes around.”

General Lee

June 23rd, 2010
4:32 pm

Yes, yes, it’s true. He’ll be okay though. He already has a job offer from two hamburger fast food chains to promote their collaberation of a small burger called the “McCrystal”.

@@

June 23rd, 2010
4:34 pm

SoCo:

I must confess…I find Blago very entertaining. It was he who said about bribery…

“Come on guys, we all do it, you know we all do it.”

Probably one of the most honest statements ever made by a politician. Then there’s Joe (honesty in his gaffes) Biden.

What’s not to like?

Abrazos

June 23rd, 2010
4:35 pm

(Dusty at 4:26, Robert Gates is the SecDef, not Bill Gates. Bill Gates is known for doing something else.)

“McChrystal should have resigned, and then let the American public know what fools our adminstration are.”

Yeah, make Obama look bad, that’s what’s important. Hey, I’m sure this person would refer to herself as a patriot, but the comment is one more illustration of the utter contempt the far-right wing has for our own soldiers. ANYTHING is fair game, including the lives and safety of our military men and women, if it provides sensational talking points. If you consider your party more precious than your country, of course the ends will always justify the means. The soldiers are merely political props.

And if your side gets back the power in November, just what would they do with it? Almost all the same Republicans are still in Washington, so what exactly do you think is going to change? After blowing through a surplus and running up $9 trillion in debt, they’ve proven they’re not fiscal responsible, and you already know they won’t stand up for your interests (unless you’re a major corporate donor, that is). As for the Tea Party candidates…how long do you think they’ll stay “pure” when they are in perpetual campaign fundraising mode, begging for cash and taking it wherever they can?

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
4:35 pm

Hi Dusty

“Seems to me Obama looked like a wimp firing a warrior. He couldn’t be brave enough to say ” You broke the rules and I’m firing you.’”

Did you listen to him? If not, here’s the transcript:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/23/transcript-of-president-obamas-remarks-on-gen-stanley-mcchryst/

I believe what you’re looking for is “The conduct represented in the recently published article does not meet the standard that should be set by a commanding general. It undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of our democratic system. And it erodes the trust that’s necessary for our team to work together to achieve our objectives in Afghanistan.”

williebkind

June 23rd, 2010
4:37 pm

Well at least the lame stream media did not accuse the general of being “a baby killer”!

tm

June 23rd, 2010
4:38 pm

Of topic- Billy McKinnon may he rest in peace. Know a number of woman including my wife who took him up on the eggplant bet and lost more than once. /Great guy, great food.

neo-Carlinist

June 23rd, 2010
4:38 pm

Dusty, I very rarely see your point, but I agree. It’s like saying, “you’re the most qualified for the job, but you didn’t file a tax return…” Or, “…out background check revealed an overdue library book from 1984…” It’s plain and simple, McChrystal wouldn’t kiss Obama’s ring, and that pisses off a king. Too bad McChrystal couldn’t “releive” all the enlisted grunts who mocked him.

Paul

June 23rd, 2010
4:39 pm

SoCom

“Sounds like a case of, “What goes around, comes around.””

I’m still hoping that the incoming party will be more interested in governing than in payback.

Wouldn’t that be rich? Republicans take Congress, and they’re the ones who follow the ‘change the way we do things in Washington” that Pres Obama called for? Not the Democrats who came in with him?