BP was active agent in its demise, and that of others

At first, it was hard to tell whether BP had been the architect of its own demise and that of others, or the unlucky victim of chance, the place where the gambles that are inherent in deep-water drilling finally just came up snake eyes.

That’s no longer true, thanks to a series of recent revelations both about the company in general and more specifically about this catastrophe. They include:

– The documented and longstanding pattern of safety violations across the range of BP operations, from pipelines to refineries to drilling rigs, that far exceed industry averages.

– A corporate culture that valued cutting costs and saving time over safety, a culture that we now know drove a string of misbegotten decisions on board the Deepwater Horizon.

– An apparently conscious corporate decision to pretend as long as possible that the most serious environmental calamity in this nation’s history was really nothing much, a deception that may have delayed a more effective national response.

That’s why things such as the apology to BP by U.S. Rep. Joe Barton are so frustrating. When you see that degree of groveling and deference to industry even under these circumstances, you begin to understand how such an accident was allowed to happen.

Joe Nocera, writing in today’s New York Times, lays out a good case for BP’s malfeasance. Noting a major refinery accident in Texas that killed 15 workers in 2005, followed by a major pipeline spill in Alaska, Nocera writes:

“In retrospect, though, the two accidents represented something else as well: they were a huge gift to the company. The fact that these two accidents — thousands of miles apart, and involving very different parts of BP — took place within a year showed that something was systemically wrong with BP’s culture. (Former CEO John) Browne had built BP by taking over other oil companies, like Amoco in 1998, and then ruthlessly cutting costs, often firing the acquired company’s most experienced engineers. Taking shortcuts was ingrained in the company’s culture, and everyone in the oil business knew it.

The accidents should have been the wake-up call BP needed to change that culture. But the mistakes and negligence that took place on the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico — which are so profound that everyone I spoke to in the oil business found them truly inexplicable — suggest that the two men never did much more than mouth nice-sounding platitudes.”

Some of what Nocera hears from others in the oil industry should be judged carefully. In hopes of avoiding more stringent regulations that are certainly coming its way, the industry has a strong incentive to depict BP as a bad actor, rather than a typical operator. But that argument only gets them so far. Rules and regulations, like any other kind of law, have to be written with the least responsible in mind. They’re the ones whose behavior must be changed.

But the larger point is probably valid nonetheless: In an industry that requires zero defects to operate safely, BP as a corporation tolerated a significantly lower standard of operation. For that reason, it’s impossible to feel sympathy for the company, its executives and even its shareholders who have lost dividends and a significant portion of their stock’s value. They reaped the benefits of cost-cutting for years; now they must reap the consequences of it.

Their suffering is minor compared to what is happening to millions whose only mistake was to live in the Gulf region.

237 comments Add your comment

Scout

June 19th, 2010
9:17 am

Jay:

How about a thread on this …………..

“The U.S. Government was active agent in its demise, and that of others”

Kamchak

June 19th, 2010
9:19 am

RW-(the original)

June 19th, 2010
9:25 am

And since they were fully regulated and subject to inspections by the US government every single step of the way it would appear the US government is every bit as culpable.

professional skeptic

June 19th, 2010
9:26 am

In hopes of avoiding more stringent regulations that are certainly coming its way, the industry has a strong incentive to depict BP as a bad actor, rather than a typical operator.

How can they possibly realize those hopes? It has already been demonstrated that they’ve all copied and pasted each other’s Gulf disaster plans, like a bunch of college kids getting term papers off the internet. Exxon, too, NOT just BP, talks about saving the walruses and calling dead consultants in Florida, in the event of disaster.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/06/15/pm-oil-companies-disaster-plans-criticized

professional skeptic

June 19th, 2010
9:29 am

RW-(the original)
June 19th, 2010
9:25 am

Agreed. Which is exactly why the American people should demand and expect MORE from our government — NOT less, as the champions of industry deregulation would like.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
9:36 am

“MSNBC : ‘The grandaddy of all gushers’? Not this spill”

“Obama’s claim that Gulf crisis is ‘worst environmental disaster’ spurs debate”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37793584/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/

NRB2

June 19th, 2010
9:37 am

Which is exactly why the American people should demand and expect MORE from our government — NOT less, as the champions of industry deregulation would like.
—————————————————————————-

Regulations do nothing.

If a company is going to be irrisponsible, then they’re going to do so no matter what, as in the case of BP.

And the free market will punish them accordingly, as in BP, who is losing billions of dollars and watching its stock tank.

The free market is punishing them far worse than the paid off morons in our worthless government ever could.

Stop supporting the child molestors in government, it only makes you look retarded.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
9:42 am

“OFF TOPIC #1″

Is Obama Using Torture in Afghanistan ?

Headline: “U.S. Testing Pain Ray in Afghanistan”

“……….. those ray-gun advocates better think long and hard about the Taliban’s propaganda bonanza when news leaks of the Americans zapping Afghans until they feel roasted alive.”

Read More http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/u-s-testing-pain-ray-in-afghanistan#ixzz0rJ2sTmmM

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/u-s-testing-pain-ray-in-afghanistan

RW-(the original)

June 19th, 2010
9:42 am

professional skeptic,

I don’t believe the answer is automatically more. There should be an honest investigation into the role of government to see what the real issues are. We may very well have so many regulations and so many involved agencies that nobody knows what their job is and they end up not doing anything. It’ll never happen though because media is the only entity that could undertake such an investigation and they pretty much operate as an arm of the government these days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Against my better judgement I saw a replay of that disallowed goal you kickball fans were whining about yesterday. I have zero soccer knowledge so I don’t know if there were fouls or not, but I’ve seen orgies with less groping going on.

larry

June 19th, 2010
9:42 am

Yep, the government made the decision to keep operating the well after rubber pieces of the blow-out preventer came up through the well. It was all the govenments fault.

I wonder, however, since this rig was registered in the Marshall Islands , how many inspections were allowed by the Marshall Islands by the U.S. government?

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
9:43 am

The agents of Global Corporatization are the de facto Kings of the World. They make the rules. Then they break them. Usually with complete impunity. Because you knowingly elected pro-crime corporatists who set it up that way.

Then you amazingly bitch that the government has not done enough and are co-conspirators!

Duh!

Wake up stooges.

Put the federal cops back on the beat. By the droves. Quit trying to emasculate Uncle Sam and then blame him when you dolts find it convenient. Give him the manpower and resources to let him properly do his job and monitor and hold accountable these Titans of Malfeasance and Criminal Negligence.

THEN hold him accountable when he fails to protect and serve we the people.

Ah, never mind. you have neither the brain power nor even the sack to even understand or ask….

professional skeptic

June 19th, 2010
9:46 am

NRB2
June 19th, 2010
9:37 am

I do not disagree with you that regulations do nothing. Especially regulations that are watered down, empty, unenforced and/or lack teeth.

I do not deny severity of the punishment BP is taking in the marketplace. It is well deserved.

Too bad all that market punishment did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent this from happening in the first place.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
9:51 am

“OFF TOPIC #2″

Headline: “Obama Administration to File Suit Against Arizona’s Immigration Law”

“Obama administration officials have decided to file a lawsuit to block a politically popular Arizona law cracking down on illegal immigration. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican, says she’s disappointed but believes courts will back the law, and several major polls show a majority of Americans want similar laws in their own states.”

GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE OR OBAMA POLITICS?

professional skeptic

June 19th, 2010
9:52 am

Perhaps NRB2, you should go down and pay a visit to all the families and workers and small business owners along the Gulf Coast whose lives have been irreparably destroyed, and offer them some comforting words:

Perhaps, “There, there. No need to fret, BP’s stock is tanking.”

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
9:52 am

Go for it, RW. The blame for the oil spill can be equally divided between BP and the government. If this had happened a few years ago, Bookman would be wringing his hands over the the government’s failure. “Bush did it” would have rung from the realms of AJC.

But what? No “Obama did it!”"??? Never. Such a thought must not be entertained or spoken. It is the rule of survival for Democrats.

Kamchak

June 19th, 2010
9:54 am

…but I’ve seen orgies with less groping going on.

Not, however, one that was televised globally.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
9:57 am

Dusty:

Exactly ! The liberal hypocrisy is unbelievable.

Jay

June 19th, 2010
9:59 am

NRB, BP is NOT paying in the marketplace. It is paying billions and will pay billions more SOLELY because of government. Without government-provided courts and government-written and government-enforced liability laws, BP would be paying almost nothing for this catastrophe “in the marketplace.” Its stock is tanking SOLELY because of the damages that BP will be forced to pay by government.

Unless you count the “boycott” of BP-labeled gas stations, which does almost nothing.

Furthermore, while BP is paying a heavy price, so too are millions of innocent people who had no role in this mess. So trying to claim that this punishment is sufficient is untrue. The goal is preventing this in the first place.

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
10:00 am

If a company is going to be irrisponsible, (sic) then they’re going to do so no matter what, as in the case of BP.

Puerile nonsense.

They KNOW nobody is watching them. Take any federal agency charged with doing so, and look at the insanely small number of people and the idiotically tiny budget they have to work with. And who are supposed to keep an eye, a close eye, on many thousands of known and likely miscreants. TO PROTECT YOU AND ME.

They are all that stands between you fools and the white collar criminals.

But you “let the market police itself” morons don’t like cops, so you make sure there are WAY too few. Then you blame the cops.

And don’t even acknowledge the enormous corporate crime wave that has wrecked this nation for nearly thirty years.

I thought you clowns were the Party of Personal Responsibility?

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:04 am

Hey, AmVet, that line”Because you knowingly elected procrime corporatist who set it up that way.”" did not hit home here about the oil spill. I have never voted to elect a Democrat and that is whom you are speaking about. Democratic president! Democratic controlled Congress!

Yuo also try to denigate Bush every day so you couldn’t be a Republican. I also hope you are not buying gasoline as that supports the “procrime corporatist”. You would not talk out both sides of your mouth, would you? (Silly question. I know.).

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:11 am

AmVet,

Why don’t you run for political office saying “Give the government more money. Fourteen trillion is not enough.” You would be a big hit! But you would have to be a Democrat. Sorry about that!!!

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
10:12 am

Dusty, a few questions.

Do you agree that there is a corporate crime wave in America?

If so, why? If not, defend your position with a shred of relevant information to corroborate.

Do you think, that there are too few, too many or just right the amount of manpower and resources for Uncle Sam to do his job vis a vis corporate fraud, malfeasance, criminal negligence, abuse, tax evasion and environmental crimes?

If so, why? If not, see above.

Do you favor the white collar criminals more than the cops and Uncle Sam?

If so, why? If not, again, see above.

And finally, are you an apologist for the Anti-Law & Order Parties?

David

June 19th, 2010
10:20 am

What Barton said, so it seems to me, had a two-fold purpose: protecting his future oil-industry campaign contributions AND making an outrageous accusation against Obama to get attention. Hopefully – but doubtfully – he’s learned that when you throw c**p, you catch the splash-back.

Nothing is Free

June 19th, 2010
10:21 am

The government forces a foreign owned company to pay into a gigantic fund and then seizes the fund.

Don’t worry folks in the gulf. The same people who didn’t build the berms because of bureaucratic incompetence will be responsible for doling out that 20 billion. Your money is on the way, and considering the amount of corruption in most government programs, plus the administration fees (lots of fat butts gotta be supported doing that bureaucrat thing.), we might see the people in the gulf getting a couple of billion.

And then we have a new bill which will tax CARBON.

Hey educated liberals. We inhale oxygen. What do we exhale?

YOU ARE SUPPORTING A GOVERNMENT THAT WANTS TO TAX BREATHING. EVERYTHING EMITS CARBON.

And you wonder why our economy continues to tank.

This is the test. Are liberals really concerned about their fellow human beings? While they have their fat cat govment jobs, will they ever begin to see what hardship this insane government is bringing onto our nation?

What the Democrats have done to the Black demographic is being done to the entire nation.

I hope you are proud of yourself, Jay. You played a part in it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:23 am

Well, Jay, in your second epistle this morning you said “The goal is preventing this in the first place.”

That was the philosophy of George W. Bush and you hated it. He went after terrorists and he went aafter wmds in a dictatorial country that hated the USA. He got rid of a dictator and prevented Iraq from being a terrorist country. If there ever were wmds in Iraq as when they gassed the Kurds, they are not there now.

But you denounced every move Bush made. You declared him incompetant. Now you want to prevent bad things from happening. You are a political chameleon, Jay. What ever suits the Democratic equation is the way you go. And you will dig up facts from somewhere, anywhere to back it.

Forgive me if I read all your statements with a big grain of salt. even about the oil spill. We know which way you will flow!!

getalife

June 19th, 2010
10:24 am

“Nightmare well” and other emails tell the story. They are on probation for killing workers, then they ki ll 11more and the Gulf Coast.”Small people” would be in jail but they will walk because they bought politicians. We have a justice system for “small people” but not much of one for corporate. Perhaps a class action discrimination law suit should be filed for “small people”.

TaxPayer

June 19th, 2010
10:25 am

What we need to do is loan [one of] our state lapdog[s], Saxby Chambliss, out to other southern states, for a small fee, and he will get these so-called informants and others that claim to be working in the best interest of the people and their safety to fess up. He’ll clean BP’s fine name and it won’t take no sugar coating to do it either. Best of all, he can do it without a waterboard.

Jay

June 19th, 2010
10:26 am

Right Dusty. Preventive war that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of people equates to tougher regulation and enforcement of oil drilling.

Wow.

Just … wow.

TaxPayer

June 19th, 2010
10:31 am

If GeeWhiz Bush had only been satisfied with letting us eat cake, we’d be better off today. But nooooo. He had to bankrupt our country, give the wealthiest tax breaks, invade other countries, reduce our regulations, etc. He and the Republican party are the worst thing that has ever happened to this country. They make the Civil War look like a walk in the park.

larry

June 19th, 2010
10:32 am

BP’s main partner in the exploration well pouring crude into the Gulf of Mexico says mounting evidence shows that the disaster was the result of BP’s “reckless decisions and actions.” The company, Anadarko Petroleum, said in a statement posted to its Web site that BP should have to pay all damages associated with the spill. Anadarko also said it any revenue it receives from oil collected in cleanup efforts will be donated to charitable and civic groups. That is from the Washington Post.

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
10:34 am

NiF! Where ya been?

Well, the suddenly timid Dusty seems to have lost her otherwise very bold tongue.

So I’ll throw it out to all of the other conservatives corporatists here.

Scout, you say you’re always looking for a good debate! Andy? Bueller?

Do you agree that there is a corporate crime wave in America?

If so, why? If not, defend your position with a shred of relevant information to corroborate.

Do you think, that there are too few, too many or just right the amount of manpower and resources for Uncle Sam to do his job vis a vis corporate fraud, malfeasance, criminal negligence, abuse, tax evasion and environmental crimes?

If so, why? If not, see above.

Do you favor the white collar criminals more than the cops and Uncle Sam?

If so, why? If not, again, see above.

And finally, are you an apologist for the Anti-Law & Order Parties?

RW-(the original)

June 19th, 2010
10:35 am

I’m sure Andarko has no ulterior motivation for trying to lay the full blame at the feet of BP…sarc

N-GA

June 19th, 2010
10:36 am

While the federal government (and specific employees) may be complicit in the BP spill, it would not have happened AT ALL but for BP drilling there (and using sub-contractors).

Meanwhile Joe Barton opens his kimona and gives Americans a sneak peek at how Republicans really feel about this entire mess. The GOP has been in corporate America’s pocket since long before Cheney met with oil industry executives in a private meeting. And those who continue to support them are Hatriots….nothing more and nothing less.

RW-(the original)

June 19th, 2010
10:39 am

Do you like me? If so why so and if not why not?

Do you want to walk me home? If so why and if not why not?

Did somebody fold one of those school girl answer papers? If so why and if not why not?

/I think I’ll go work in the garden. Let me know when you break out the magic 8 ball.

Sarah Palin

June 19th, 2010
10:39 am

Please TDrill, baby, drill!!!

ncgreybr

June 19th, 2010
10:40 am

Scout and RW: Typical. It’s all the government’s fault. BP was probably just an innocent bystander. If the government had “done their job” then BP wouldn’t be in this mess.

Sarah Palin

June 19th, 2010
10:41 am

Please, willfully ignorant Tea Party sheep, chant with me:

Drill, baby, drill!!!

and don’t forget to the bumper sticker.

Brad Steel

June 19th, 2010
10:45 am

And since they were fully regulated and subject to inspections by the US government every single step of the way it would appear the US government is every bit as culpable.

Brilliant use of ‘tard logic, RW. So, by your twisted ‘tard logic, the government is culpable for every murder committed because murder is illegal.

That’s pure genius.

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:45 am

AmVet,

I am not a despondent American declaring a crime way is engulfing our country. That is your opinion.

Yes, there’s plenty of crime but I have a solid bank for some protection., I work honestly and have saved money carefully in order to never be dependent. Have never used “lesure” drugs. I support local,county, state and the feds for the good they do but do not ignore insuffiences or dishonesty. I also follow the law instead of ignoring it. I’m pretty typical of the average American and we love our country.

I believe that FOURTEEN TRILLION in federal government debt is TOO LARGE. That is poor government management. Not big business.

Our government is too large. It might study big business to learn how to run something efficiently. There are millions of good companies in America and I will not call them guilty for what a few have done. I support good business practices. You do not differentiate.

So toddle on off, grumpy, and tell everyone how rotten they are. That seems to be your method for any kind of rehab. Discuss, destroy and discriminate by AmVet.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
10:47 am

AmVet:

1) I think there is a thug government crime wave in America !

2) I will address one of your points that I have first hand knowledge of.

I spent three years a a special agent with IRS-CID working income tax fraud cases. My training took about 6 months. During the next two and a half years in just one case alone I paid for my entire three year salary ………. 10 times over. Just one case!

Now, tax fraud enforcement is a joke. It’s all over the place, individuals and big corporations. There are not enough special agents to even make a dent. Since thousands and thousands of more special agents “would” make a dent (and they pay for themselves many times over in addition to bring in millions in evaded tax revenue) why won’t the government (liberal or conservative) add those agents?

I’d like to hear “your” answer ……….. before I give you mine.

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
10:48 am

No such emergency switch was available on April 20, 2010, when BP’s 18,000-foot-drilling-deep floating oil rig blew up, a catastrophe that killed eleven workers, injured many others, and which has spewed, so far, as much as 100 million gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico (some 2,400,000 barrels, or nearly ten oil tankers the size of the Exxon Valdez). The British-American BP company, seemingly, had cut corners in order to take advantage of the lax regulatory environment.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
10:48 am

Jay:

“Right Dusty. Preventive war that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of people equates to tougher regulation and enforcement of oil drilling.”

But it can save “millions” of people.

“No one is free when others are oppressed.” Author Unknown

N-GA

June 19th, 2010
10:48 am

Dusty – If George Bush hadn’t cut taxes and started two wars, then the USA wouldn’t have such a large financial yoke around its neck….and you knowingly voted for this corporate stooge!

N-GA

June 19th, 2010
10:49 am

Dusty – But now you want to whine about US debt. Make up your simple little mind. You can’t have it both ways.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
10:50 am

ncgreybr:

So where were Obama’s oil rig/drilling inspectors ?

Brad Steel

June 19th, 2010
10:51 am

Dunce Dusty,
Putting aside it’s fully recognized that blaming a president is view as nothing but pathetic partisan whining, which is tired schtick, it was your oil buddies Bush and Cheney that castrated and cultivated the incompetence at MMS. MMS is still worthless, but Obama has been busy trying to fix the other fiascos of the modern era’s worse administration – ever.

Jay

June 19th, 2010
10:52 am

Why do you ask, Scout?

If he had deployed more regulators, you would have accused him of seizing more power just like Chavez.

Do you REALLY want more regulators and inspectors? Is that what you’re saying?

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:52 am

Jay, I was discussing philosophy of two administrations and presidents and you jumped into your anti-war tirade. The philosophy mentioned was the prevention of future disasters of any kind whether it be terrorism orr oil spills.

Try to see beyond your one track mind once and awhile.

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
10:52 am

Soon after the secretive Cheney’s Task Force report came out, things began rolling for the U.S. petroleum industry. The regulatory rulebooks for energy development on public property were rewritten with the idea of making the world environment safe for oil business companies. It was going to be “Drill, baby, drill”, including for deep-ocean drilling with minimal precautions, and damn the consequences! Regulations and clean energy budgets began to fall.

Then, also in 2005, the Bush-Cheney administration allowed the U.S. oil and gas industry to regulate itself. The federal agency responsible for managing oil and gas resources and for collecting royalties from companies, the Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service (MMS), decided, on August 30, 2005, that oil companies, rather than the government, were in the best position for determining their operations’ environmental impacts. In effect, MMS decided on that date to de facto merge its services with those of the oil companies, even to the point of letting the oil industry fill out MMS’s inspection reports. MMS officials also had other cozy relations with the companies they were supposed to regulate.

Covered from losses by the liability cap, oil companies persuaded the Bush-Cheney administration that expensive security measures were not required, even for drilling in deep oceanic waters. For example, Minerals Management Service (MMS), decided not to require oil companies to install a remote-control oil blowout preventer [See Wall Strret Journal] on their deep-sea oil drilling rigs, i.e. an acoustic blow off valve that immediately chokes off the flow of oil in an emergency. Even though they are expensive, (they cost $500,000 each), most offshore oil rigs in other countries—in Norway and in Brazil for example, but not in the U.S. or the U.K— have such a switch installed for cutting off the flow of oil in an emergency by closing a valve located on the ocean floor.

No such emergency switch was available on April 20, 2010, when BP’s 18,000-foot-drilling-deep floating oil rig blew up, a catastrophe that killed eleven workers, injured many others, and which has spewed, so far, as much as 100 million gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico (some 2,400,000 barrels, or nearly ten oil tankers the size of the Exxon Valdez). The British-American BP company, seemingly, had cut corners in order to take advantage of the lax regulatory environment.

However, contrary to the damage done by Hurricane Katrina in 2005, a natural event, the 2010 Gulf oil spill is a man-made disaster (just as, by the way, the 2003 Iraq war and the 2007-08 financial crisis were also man-made disasters). It could have been prevented if the Bush-Cheney administration had not removed the regulations mandating basic safety procedures in oil drilling, especially for offshore drilling.

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
10:53 am

Childish non-answers from the right wing’s right wing. Considering the source, almost predictable. Probably pretending to not watch kickball…

“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes”.Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong it’s reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.” ~(Mis) attributed to Abraham Lincoln. Likely written by a biographer in 1876.

But even you conned gotta admit, he should have been a fortune teller.

The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That’s the only difference. ~Ralph nader

I’ll be back to address those two replies after I get some more of the yard mowed.

Toodles, for now apologists…

DannyX

June 19th, 2010
10:53 am

“So where were Obama’s oil rig/drilling inspectors ?”

Probably back home in the Marshall Islands.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
10:55 am

Jay:

First ……….. regulation is for safety ……… what “Chavez” Obama is doing politically is trying to seize more power. Surely you know the difference ?

So yes, more rig insprectors …………. and more IRS agents to make sure “you” get audited ……….. :o

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
10:56 am

Brad Steele, you just put yoursefl in the name calling class of ignorance. Try to advance a bit.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
10:57 am

AmVet:

After you get the yard mowed (be careful it’s hot out there) then please answer my 10:47 as per your request I took the time to write it.

Del

June 19th, 2010
10:58 am

Accountability and failing to protect and serve we the people. A prime example of this president’s dereliction of duty is his failure to secure the safety of our people on the Southern border and now pursuing a law suit against the state of Arizona for that states effort to protect its residents. We have an invasion of United States sovereign territory by illegal’s whose actions have now made it unsafe for our citizens to visit or travel through and we have this fool in the White House aiding and abetting. That’s high treason on the part of a sitting president and his administration.

mm

June 19th, 2010
11:00 am

You know the wingnuts used to call libs unamerican for being against the Iraq war.

But now on a daily basis we see treasonous comments from these so called patriots. They are blaiming our government for everything from oil spills to flu epidemics.

Let’s vote them into the stone age this November. The Tea Party is pretty much making that a reality with their daily insane rants from their candidates.

Scout

June 19th, 2010
11:00 am

Del :

Amen brother ! Got to run myself for a little bit ………….. “I shall return” !

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
11:00 am

NGA

IF if if George W. Bush hadn’t gone to war Obam bin Laden might be sitting in Bagdad directing terrorism feom the heart of the Middle East instead of trying to speak from the highest hidden mountains in the world once a year..

If you want to iginore terrorism, go ahead. You seem kinda blind about a lot of things. Bush was not blind to future threats to our country like 9/11 which came in his first year of office. He fought back. You wouldn’t it seems.

larry

June 19th, 2010
11:00 am

DannyX

June 19th, 2010
11:00 am

“and more IRS agents to make sure “you” get audited here”

Lol, the rig owners sure don’t have to worry about an IRS audit, do they Scout?

Why is that?

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:01 am

Scout,

Have you ever thought (insert joke here) that the President would not get involved if these corporations did not screw up like destroying our Gulf Coast?

Scout

June 19th, 2010
11:01 am

mm:

One more ………….

No ……. you unAmerican for being a lib. !

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:05 am

Del,

He is doing what w did.

w committed treason too?

Scout

June 19th, 2010
11:05 am

Hey ………. I’m trying to get out of here before you guys get me in trouble with the wife !

DannyX: Because the odds are so low. Not even close to enough agents.

getalife: Well then why is the President not getting involved in the illegal immigrants who are trashing our border and costing us millions? I’ll answer for you …. politics !

Now I’m really gone ……… I mean it!

larry

June 19th, 2010
11:05 am

IF if if George W. Bush hadn’t gone to war Obam bin Laden might be sitting in Bagdad directing terrorism feom the heart of the Middle East instead of trying to speak from the highest hidden mountains in the world once a year..

That is highly doubtful considering Saddam and Osama could not stand each other. Thats why Saddam would not let him in Iraq when Saudi Arabia kicked Osama out.

TaxPayer

June 19th, 2010
11:06 am

None of this would have happened if the Republicans were still in power because they would have already removed all regulations and then BP could not have possibly done anything wrong and they would have given us all another tax cut and even finally given us our long overdue tart reform. And just for good measure, they may have even invaded Cuba in order to give our children, their expendable soldiers, something worthwhile to do. Oh well. As soon as the Republicans return to power, they’ll fix all those problems and more. So much more.

Jay

June 19th, 2010
11:06 am

So Del, apparently your position on Arizona’s law is driven in part by your perception that illegal immigrants “have now made it unsafe for our citizens to visit or travel through” Arizona.

However:

“– Violent crimes in Arizona are down by 15 percent since 2006: The FBI’s preliminary Uniform Crime Report, or UCR, for 2009 shows that violent crime—murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—is down in Arizona for the third year in a row. The absolute number of violent crimes in 2006 was 30,916 in Arizona. By 2009 it had dropped by 15 percent to 26,094.

– Per-capita violent crime rate dropped by 22 percent: Factoring in the change in Arizona’s population, the rate of violent crime per 100,000 persons in 2009 was 390.5, which is a 22 percent decrease from 501.4 per 100,000 in 2006. For comparison’s sake, the violent crime rate in nonborder states such as Georgia and Florida was 410.6 and 604.9 respectively in 2009.

– Arizona’s violent and property crime rate drop was twice the national average: Nationally, violent and property crimes were down between 2008 and 2009, but Arizona saw rates of decline more than double that. The nation as a whole saw a -5.5 percent change in violent crime and -4.9 percent change in property crime from 2008 to 2009, but Arizona experienced a percent change of -11.1 in the former and -12 in the latter in this same time period.

– Kidnappings are tied to Mexico’s organized crime syndicate, not innocent Americans: It’s clear that Arizona has an organized crime problem, with 267 kidnappings in 2009 in Phoenix alone. But the kidnappings most often occur when human smugglers—who are usually part of Mexican drug cartels—demand more money for their services. As Phoenix police Sgt. Tommy Thompson said, “We’re talking about the kidnapping of smugglers and associates. I have no fear that my kids or grandkids will be victims.” This means that our efforts must be directed toward two fronts: fixing our broken immigration system so that people can immigrate legally with visas and not illegally with smugglers, and helping to resolve the deadly war on drugs in Mexico. (Source: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/06/border_crime.html).

Clearly, you reached your conclusion based on incorrect facts. May I now assume that you are willing to change your conclusion, given that it was founded on a false basis?

@@

June 19th, 2010
11:07 am

jay, I think you’re preaching to the choir, for the most part. I haven’t seen many conservatives here who support letting BP skate. Maybe Barton felt the need to apologize because he knew the politicians and government bureaucrats WERE being allowed to skate.

Government? Simplify, simplify, simplify, but not with more simpletons like the ones at the SEC and MMS. The federal government is so damn big, one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing.

How about WE investigate ^^^ THAT!!??!!

Since you’re a big supporter, tell your godfathers to don their life vests. Ain’t nobody getting out of this one alive.

Moderate Line

June 19th, 2010
11:07 am

For that reason, it’s impossible to feel sympathy … shareholders who have lost dividends and a significant portion of their stock’s value. They reaped the benefits of cost-cutting for years; now they must reap the consequences of it.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Ok so you lack sympathy for people who have retirements in 401K and other mutual fund. Here are the top 10 holders of BP and the top ten mutual funds. One of top holders is the Gates Foundation a charity.

WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT COMPANY, LLP $1,988,411,595
BARROW, HANLEY MEWHINNEY & STRAUSS, INC. $953,107,636
BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION $793,910,186
STATE FARM MUTUAL AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE CO $744,880,379
PRICE (T.ROWE) ASSOCIATES INC $710,072,872
MORGAN STANLEY $640,602,303
FMR LLC $448,284,051
WELLS FARGO & COMPANY $443,350,634
Tradewinds Global Investors, LLC $424,386,673
GATES (BILL & MELINDA) FOUNDATION $407,080,310

VANGUARD/WINDSOR II $549,106,981
VANGUARD SPECIALIZED-ENERGY FUND $441,540,936
VANGUARD/WELLINGTON FUND INC. $379,706,560 28-Feb-10
FIDELITY DIVERSIFIED INTERNATIONAL FUND $353,846,500
PRICE (T.ROWE) EQUITY INCOME FUND $211,084,809
VANGUARD/WELLESLEY INCOME FUND $207,086,231
American Beacon Large Cap Value Fd $122,923,073
FMI LARGE CAP FD $122,472,220
PRICE (T.ROWE) NEW ERA FUND $120,672,974
PUTNAM EQUITY INCOME FUND $90,297,370

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=BP+Major+Holders

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:07 am

mm,

They are patriots when w was president and commit treason now with Obama.

mm

June 19th, 2010
11:07 am

Scout,

Wear your badge of hatred proudly.

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:08 am

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
11:08 am

WOO, DOGGIE! It’s already hotter than h, e, double hockey sticks out there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjNK_zukgAk

(Don’t be afraid. Turn that volume up.)

OK, the front is done, now for the back yard. (It’s like eating an elephant…)

One of the many great treats of watching the beautiful coverage of the beautiful game is the fact that there is not some moronic Butt Wiper or Joke-a-Cola ad every four minutes…

Scout, hang tough. I’ll get to you shortly…

TaxPayer

June 19th, 2010
11:09 am

I wonder if Dusty puts as much effort into compiling factual data in her healthcare job as she does the information that she posts as “fact” here. If so, I pity anyone that is dependent on that “data” for their healthcare.

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:09 am

He is Scout.

You and Del are unpatriotic and committing treason.

TnGelding

June 19th, 2010
11:12 am

DannyX

June 19th, 2010
11:12 am

“DannyX: Because the odds are so low. Not even close to enough agents.”

WRONG. They avoid US taxes by registering their companies in obscure low tax countries.

To avoid tough US inspections they also register the rigs under foreign flags. In this case the Marshall Islands.

Kamchak

June 19th, 2010
11:14 am

Here are the top 10 holders of BP and the top ten mutual funds.

Anyone investing in the stock market is assuming risks. Mutual fund managers know this better than anyone. If you want security, buy T-bills.

AmVet

June 19th, 2010
11:18 am

Scout, first an aside, but a very important one. It is VERY difficult to have a serious discourse with some one who treats their mother tongue in such a cavalier fashion.

To wit, when I exposed your silly and improper use of the word “extortion”, you ala Bill O’Reilly “corrected” yourself and used the word “shakedown”. I provided the definition and showed you that it meant the exact same thing.

You response? I was being infantile.

At least Congressman Barton had the courage to apologize. Do you?

You wrote, think there is a thug government crime wave in America !

thug –noun
1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

Many of use hyberbolic rhetoric here. I don’t think you even know what that is or that you rely upon it excessively…

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:18 am

BP and Halliburton’s Role in the Gulf Oil Disaster– Well Casing Horror Story

Halliburton’s job was to seal the well casing. When a well like the Gulf disaster well on BP’s Macondo prospect oil field is drilled, they start with a big hole– about 22 inches in diameter. Then, after a few or five thousand feet, they go to a smaller diameter, say 16 inches, then 12 inches, 11 inches, 9 inches. That initial drilling hole is the well casing. It’s like a several mile long inverted cone. When the well is completed, they put a heavier duty four inch pipe all the way down the well. That’s what the oil is supposed to flow through.

Halliburton’s job was to seal the well casing with concrete– all three plus miles of casing, so the four inch pipe was surrounded with concrete. New disclosures make it clear that BP made decisions to cut costs which reduced the safety of the job Haliburton did. A huffingtonpost.com article reports that, as part of an investigation, congressmen Henry Waxman and Bar Stupak wrote:

Despite warnings from its own engineers, “BP chose the more risky casing option, apparently because the liner option would have cost $7 to $10 million more and taken longer,” Waxman and Stupak said.

In the brief e-mail, Morel said the company is likely to make last-minute changes in the well.

“We could be running it in 2-3 days, so need a relative quick response. Sorry for the late notice, this has been nightmare well which has everyone all over the place,” Morel wrote.

BP apparently rejected advice of a subcontractor, Halliburton Inc., in preparing for a cementing job to close up the well. BP rejected Halliburton’s recommendation to use 21 “centralizers” to make sure the casing ran down the center of the well bore. Instead, BP used six centralizers.

In an e-mail on April 16, a BP official involved in the decision explained: “It will take 10 hours to install them. I do not like this.” Later that day, another official recognized the risks of proceeding with insufficient centralizers but commented: “who cares, it’s done, end of story, will probably be fine.”

What are the chances that the well casing below the sea floor has been compromised, and that gas and oil are coming up the outside of the well casing, eroding the surrounding soft rock. Could this lead to a catastrophic geological failure, unstoppable even by the relief wells?

John Hofmeister: This is what some people fear has occurred. It is also why the “top kill” process was halted. If the casing is compromised the well is that much more difficult to shut down, including the risk that the relief wells may not be enough. If the relief wells do not result in stopping the flow, the next and drastic step is to implode the well on top of itself, which carries other risks as well.

Let’s sacrifice the entire Gulf of Mexico so that we can drill on the cheap.

Jay

June 19th, 2010
11:22 am

Moderate, you are, I believe, one of the stalwart defenders of the free market on this blog, right?

Well you know what? That’s how the market works. If you invest in a rapacious company that produces big profits by taking more risk, that risk is yours just as the profit is.

The discipline of the market. Are you complaining about it? Do you think the shareholders of BP ought to be protected at the expense of those in the Gulf?

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:23 am

Soothsayer,

Yes, there is major methane flowing out of that gusher.

Some scientists said the bottom is cracking and that is really bad news.

Del

June 19th, 2010
11:25 am

Jay, It’s not my perception. I’m sure you’re aware of the reported federal governments postings around National Parks in Arizona and evidently now other locations declaring those area’s unsafe for visitation and travel do to illegal alien drug cartel and human smuggling activities.

getalife, I would be saying the same about GWB if was still our president. BTW I was highly critical of Bush’s inaction, however, when you now have United States territory in effect being occupied by foreign elements and a government who only posts warning signs and doing nothing other than planning law suits against a state trying to protect it’s people. It’s gone far beyond the pale..

RW-(the original)

June 19th, 2010
11:25 am

How does this Marshall Islands canard square with the Jones Act?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

josef nix,

If you happen to pop in what do you think about the announcement that Mabus’s job as Oil Spill Czar is just a part time gig?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I’ve come to an intersecting point of agreement with my friend across the aisle. It truly is hot as aitch eee double-el out there, but the back forty isn’t going to reclaim itself.

Dusty

June 19th, 2010
11:28 am

Taxpayer,

Don’t go to the hospital because doctors are often dependent on my kind of work for YOUR diagnosis and any other patient there. But, as to your possible analysis, I have never worked in a mental health facility.. So relax with the nasty notes. You are safe!!!

Now, I must get busy with the birthday dinner coming up tonight. Surely is fun having a great family!! See ya ‘later maybe……

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:28 am

Del,

Corporate and Chamber of Commerce want amnesty. Fight them. Good luck with that.

popeye

June 19th, 2010
11:41 am

Well it would seem Tony Hayward got his life back.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100619/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill

What a scmuck!

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:41 am

For those with the time, my post at 11:18 am may be the most definitive article I have ever read about the cut corners, the lies, the deception, and the possibly catastrophic consequences of the BP oil spill. I invite all of you to read it. If not now, save it to your favorites and read it later.

Moderate Line

June 19th, 2010
11:44 am

Jay

June 19th, 2010
11:06 am
So Del, apparently your position on Arizona’s law is driven in part by your perception that illegal immigrants “have now made it unsafe for our citizens to visit or travel through” Arizona.

However:

“– Violent crimes in Arizona are down by 15 percent since 2006: The FBI’s preliminary Uniform Crime Report, or UCR, for 2009 shows that violent crime—murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—is down in Arizona for the third year in a row. The absolute number of violent crimes in 2006 was 30,916 in Arizona. By 2009 it had dropped by 15 percent to 26,094.
____________________
Note the emphasis on declining crime rate. Arizona crime rate can drop considerable because it is very high to begin with.
Arizona murder rate in 2007 – 7.4
National Average – 5.6
Arizona’s murder rate is 32% higher than the national average
Arizonas other violent crime rate are close to the national average.
Arizona’s property crime rates is 35% higher than the national average

Arizona has the highest property crime rate in the country!!!!!!!!!

Del

June 19th, 2010
11:44 am

Cooked stat’s are one thing, however, reality tells the true story.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4240637/giving-part-of-us-to-mexico

Moderate Line

June 19th, 2010
11:45 am

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:45 am

“In addition, as oil combined with mud rushes through the casing, with pockets of gas sending additional shocks to the casing system, it is likely that further erosion of the casing’s structural integrity will occur. This could lead to a total breakdown of the connection of the casing to the BOP at the top, which would lead to an increas in oil flow from the 80-100,000 barrels per day most scientists estimate to 600,000 barrels a day. If the last ditch effort using the pair of deep alternate wells fails to stop the gusher, it is HIGHLY likely that this breakdown of the casing will eventually happen. That’s why it’s so important to drill additional wells to take pressure off the system, though even that idea is highly speculative.”

If this doesn’t make the hair on the back of your neck stand up I don’t know what will.

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:49 am

“Tonight, Obama will be speaking from the Oval office. There’s a test he must pass– telling the people of the world the truth that there may not be a way to stop this well– that it could gush for years. If he tries to peddle a narrative that we WILL plug this hole, he will not be telling the truth, will be attempting to sugar coat just how bad things are. We don’t need that. We need truth. That is the ultimate test of his address t his evening.”

getalife

June 19th, 2010
11:54 am

Perhaps that is why he said to pray. They said they are 200 feet for the relief well so we will find out soon.

“Nungesser, La. Pols ‘Cozy’ With Big Oil Before BP Spill”:

http://www.aolnews.com/gulf-oil-spill/article/billy-nungesser-louisiana-pols-cozy-with-big-oil-before-bp-spill/19521050

I bet they apologized to bp too.

Soothsayer

June 19th, 2010
11:56 am

josef nix

June 19th, 2010
12:03 pm

RW

I am here. I was afraid that would happen. My greatest fear is that his mission will not be clearly defined and that he will be hamstrung by outside interests. He knows how to size up and tackle a problem and is not afraid to tilt windmills and to take on entrenched blocs. He says he can handle both the Secretary of the Navy position as well as the post to which he is now appointed. I am waiting for his initial report. I do believe, if given a free hand, he will have the best interest of the local people at heart and in mind. His is a long term job and while he may be able to handle the set up of the plan “part time,” I don’t think he will be able to handle it in the long haul as part time, even if for him “part time” is time and a half for the rest of us. I think he knows that, too. I suspect that he will be giving up the Sec. of Navy post in the next administration regardless of who goes in. He’s very much a man of the “make haste slowly” school of thought.

DannyX

June 19th, 2010
12:08 pm

Anyone going to the big yacht race today?

Who’s the favorite?

SwamiDave

June 19th, 2010
12:13 pm

The reality is that BP and its actions are at the origins of the current situation.

However, calls for more and more regulation ring hollow as we see further cases where existing rules and regulations were not upheld. Likewise, subsequent actions by government bureaucrats that are, many times, impeding instead of facilitating the cleanup and cap effort.

While it would be great if the accident had never occurred, our current situation would be much better if federal officials would get engaged in resolving the problem and cleaning up the mess instead of setting up roadblocks in the path of those who are.

-SwamiDave

Matilda

June 19th, 2010
12:18 pm

Whoa whoa… wait a minute. You mean the sacred holy free market private enterprise oil and rig operating companies have not cleaned this mess up YET? But but but…. I haven’t purchased a tank of gas or a Snapple from a BP station in months! The natural market force of my boycott was supposed to fix everything! SAY IT AIN’T SO!

Scout

June 19th, 2010
12:22 pm

getalife and AmVet:

O.K. I wanted to have some good debate but you guys won’t play so ………….. “big yawn”.

Please do me a BIG favor and don’t address any of my posts today. Thanks.