‘Second Amendment remedies’? That suggests treason
Sharron Angle, the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate in Nevada, has espoused so many radical notions over the years that she’s had to be gagged for a few weeks by her Republican handlers while they attempt a political makeover.
However, no amount of makeup or image polishing can disguise the ugliness of some of her ideas. Consider, for example, her statement about the Second Amendment and Congress a few months ago during an interview with a conservative radio host (audio available here):
“You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it’s good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.
I hope that’s not where we’re going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around?”
People are looking toward those Second Amendment remedies? If so, they need to be locked up as soon as possible.
Astonishingly, that viewpoint is being applauded in some quarters. For example, the editor of my former newspaper, the Las Vegas Review-Journal, endorses Angle’s viewpoint in a blog post headlined “What do you think the Second Amendment is for? Rabbit hunting?”
Before we go any further, I think it’s important to define terms. Angle argues that the Second Amendment exists as insurance against a tyrannical government, and I agree. But how do you define “tyrannical government”? To my mind, it would be a government that cancels elections, that refuses to allow the peaceful transfer of authority, that uses military force to keep itself in power or that tries to defy judicial limits on its power.
In the extremely unlikely event of such a situation, “Second Amendment remedies” would indeed be justified and I’d be among those trying to implement said remedies.
However, to cite “Second Amendment remedies” as a way to “correct” the acts of a duly elected Congress and duly elected president is to suggest treason. And that’s just what Angle and her ilk are doing. It is the self-indulgent whining of losers who can’t compete in the political arena and thus have to threaten to impose their viewpoints through violence. It is fascist in its motivation and intent, and deeply antithetical to concepts of freedom.
People who spout such nonsense are not patriotic Americans; they are not lovers of liberty or believers in the rule of law or self-governance. By claiming the right to impose their viewpoints through violence rather than the ballot box, they seek to become the very tyrants they claim to oppose, and wrapping their ugliness in the American flag does nothing to change its vile character.
In fact, it makes it more offensive.
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396 comments Add your comment
getalife
June 16th, 2010
1:53 pm
“WASHINGTON — Nevada Senate nominee Sharron Angle, a tea party favorite who describes herself as a conservative’s conservative, left the Republican Party at the height of the Reagan revolution and became a Democrat for at least several years, government records show.” HP
A dem? Get her tea party.
Scooter
June 16th, 2010
1:53 pm
Uptick in Violence Forces Closing of Parkland Along Mexico Border to Americans
Don’t worry OGK, Obama’s got this one!
Scout
June 16th, 2010
1:58 pm
Matilda:
You continue to miss the point. They weren’t tried for treason because IT WASN’T TREASON !
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:02 pm
Jay:
Your thread today begs another question:
““In the extremely unlikely event of such a situation, “Second Amendment remedies” would indeed be justified and I’d be among those trying to implement said remedies.”
Since in the past you have posted numerous anit-gun/anti-carry/anti-true meaning of the 2nd Amendment threads …………… what do you propose to use “to implement said remedies” ?
You squirt gun? Pitchfork? Cap pistol?
Saul Good
June 16th, 2010
2:02 pm
Always have to LOVE showing someone a chart after reading their rant…and seeing them simply go silent. Happens every single time.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:03 pm
Scooter :
“Jose” Obama “don’t need no stinking badge.”
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:03 pm
Wrong, Scout.
It was treason plain and simple. To serve the greater cause of national unity, the decision was made not to prosecute it.
A private sector employee
June 16th, 2010
2:04 pm
It is blogs like these where I am reminded of one T Jefferson:
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
DebbieDoRight
June 16th, 2010
2:08 pm
Scout and a few others, you guys really need to consider DECAFF in the mornings.
PS: All of you who’ve posted “I’m gonna/shoulda/woulda/Obama/death etc. — make sure, you brave civil libertarians, that you also “cc” the FBI with all your emails and chain letters, I know how brave you are to because you post death threats annonymously via blogs, but why not emulate a TRUE American and sign your name, (or email address w/your regular address, phone number, etc), big and bold like Hancock did. Let the world know who you really are!
Granny Godzilla
June 16th, 2010
2:09 pm
“People who spout such nonsense are not patriotic Americans; they are not lovers of liberty or believers in the rule of law or self-governance. By claiming the right to impose their viewpoints through violence rather than the ballot box, they seek to become the very tyrants they claim to oppose, and wrapping their ugliness in the American flag does nothing to change its vile character.”
Amen Jay, amen.
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:10 pm
A private sector employee
I second that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
joan
June 16th, 2010
2:10 pm
Heck, she is just making the point that “You will get my brass before you get my gold”. I totally agree with her. There was a time when free men did revolt against a government that was taxing them without representing them. Oh, yes, I remember those men. There names were Washington, Adams, Jefferson. As I recall they used their brass. There comes a time when the country is fed up with its representatives. We have to try to vote them out of office, but that is becoming harder to do because they are funded by bribery and corrupt lobbiests, so honest people, and they are supported by a ka media, so a honest man hardly has a chance. I would vote Angle over Reid any day of the week.
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:10 pm
joan is cool.
DebbieDoRight
June 16th, 2010
2:12 pm
Scout: Matilda, You continue to miss the point. They weren’t tried for treason because IT WASN’T TREASON!
Dude, what school did YOU graduate from? Please let me know so that I make sure my neices and nephews DON’T go there!
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:13 pm
Wrong Jay.
1) The Attorney General and two special prosecutors felt an impartial jury would say it was not treason. That’s why they wouldn’t prosecute Davis, et al.
2) Did our founders commit treason?
A private sector employee
June 16th, 2010
2:17 pm
Jay Bookman wrote: “or that tries to defy judicial limits on its power. ”
Bingo. I could go through a WHOLE LIST of things that the government does in defiance to judicial limits on its power. The Healthcare bill jammed down our throats is but one small example. The Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) has now been used to tax, to take land, to force people to purchase health insurance. It pretty much being used at will by the federal government ” to defy judicial limits on its power ” .
If I was a beach front owner with a modest house, and the government decided to take my land to give to a developer to bring in more taxes (serve the public good), then I would believe that Second Amendment remedies are in order.
Or, If a was a 22 year old in great health and the government told me I had to purchase a $4000 health insurance policy when all I wanted was catastrophic coverage, then I would believe that Second Amendment remedies are in order.
Or, if the government instituted a complete ban on guns in my town/county/state, I might believe that Second Amendment remedies are in order.
Shall I go on, Jay? While YOU may believe that the government is right, there is SIGNIFICANT body of work that suggests that these acts by Federal and State governments are unconstitutional and ” defy judicial limits on its power.”
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:21 pm
Some Observations:
I went to Catholic schools most of my life. We talked a lot about God, but, I never did have a chance to meet God in my classroom.
Our very own Glen Beck said, A tyrannical government is one that forces you to buy healthcare. That, my fellow Americans is tranny!
uh, tranny? Is that transmission or transsexual?
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:22 pm
Hey Mrs. G!!! I missed you!!
JohnnyReb
June 16th, 2010
2:23 pm
You folks keep writing about second amendment remedies. Angle does not want second amendment remedies. re, my post @ 1:53.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:24 pm
Private Sector, in none of the cases you list has the federal government tried to defy a judicial ruling limiting its powers. It may have defied YOUR idea of what those powers might be, but that is a very different thing and does not give you the right to try “Second Amendment remedies.”
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:24 pm
“By claiming the right to impose their viewpoints through violence rather than the ballot box,”
It is the THREAT of violence.
Something the Feds do everyday. Especially around April 15.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:24 pm
“The Healthcare bill jammed down our throats is but one small example.”
There’s the loony sign.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
Johnny Reb, that’s a ludicrous interpretation.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:26 pm
jt,
The Feds threaten violence on you every April 15th?
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
“On Treason”
1) In order for “treason” to exist, one must be convicted of it (i.e., muder, fraud, robbery). No one was ever convicted of treason for fighting for the Confederate States of America. Opine all you want unless you can show me the trial verdict.
2) “Republicans argued that secession was impossible but then set conditions before allowing Southern States back into a Union they allegedly had never left.”
“The Southern States had every right to seced in 1860-1861. In fact, Virginia, Maryland, and Rhode Island had ratified the Constitution on the explicit understanding that they could withdraw from it.”
Kevin R. Gutzman, J.D., Ph.D.
3) During the War of 1812, the New England States (who supported the British) not only threatened to withdraw from the Union but several states provided funds and supplies to the British Army in Canada !
josef nix
June 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
The 2nd Amendment is there for a good reason and on that we’re all pretty much agreed. It’s when, where and why to invoke it we seem to be stuck on. That’s a good thing. It is one of the most clear and concise of all the Amendments. The founding fathers, who I personally think we give a bit more credit than they’re due or would want for their “wisdom,” left that question wide open and for a good reason. It’s up to “the people” to make that decision. The founding fathers didn’t have that much faith in the people making the right decision, either. A lot of them weren’t all that convinced they had made the right one themselves. So, as I have said before, they left us with a document that gave us the freedom to F up since they knew we were going to do it anyway, We haven’t let them down. On the other hand that document gave us the freedom to aspire to and achieve the pinnacles of human dream and endeavor, unfettered in that drive. The optimists among them, as well, even, as the pessimists on a good hair day, held out hope that we would. And we have not let them down there either.
That said, then, those seeking to “take back their country” are no more inclined to be from one “side” as the other. It’s political rhetoric and not much else. Those seeking to do so invoking the 2nd Amendment are, thakfully, the lunatic fringe of those “sides.” Today, it is the right in the spotlight. Like Gale, I am old enough to have been a participant in “The Revolution” of the 1960s and no small few of the lunatic fringe elements on the left, then, too, invoked the 2nd Amendment.
While our society today is increasingly polarized between left-right, etc., those of us who were alive and participants back then can, I think, say without fear of contradiction, as bad as it is now it ain’t nowhere nearly as bad as it was then.
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:28 pm
jt said joan is cool.
So is my Mary Callendar’s frozen turkey pot pie.
Peadawg
June 16th, 2010
2:28 pm
“By claiming the right to impose their viewpoints through violence”
Didn’t Obama just threaten to kick someone’s ass? Just sayin….
BTW, the nursing home needs to be alerted again. Granny’s escaped. You’d think they get better locks on her door.
DebbieDoRight
June 16th, 2010
2:29 pm
Scout: Wrong Jay.
1) The Attorney General and two special prosecutors felt an impartial jury would say it was not treason. That’s why they wouldn’t prosecute Davis, et al.
Dude you reeeeallllly need some schooling!! In a time of WAR, which the US was in, it’s considered TREASON. You don’t need any other voice or justification to add to it. Davis, a southerner, who ascended to the presidency after Lincoln was shot, chose NOT to pursue the people who rose up against the US (the south).
2) Did our founders commit treason?
Yes, against England. Just as Benedict Arnold, if he was around after the colonists had won their independence from England, would’ve been charged for treason against the US.
JohnnyReb
June 16th, 2010
2:34 pm
Jay wrote – Johnny Reb, that’s a ludicrous interpretation.
Jay, your flat wrong. If you were as in-tune with the Right as I, you would not have stated my interpretation is ludicrous. What I wrote is the exact interpretation of Angle. I suggest you pull yourself away from White Hose talking points and watch a little Glenn Beck or listen to Mark Levine. You may even know Hannity personally.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:35 pm
AND Mrs. G. – how is the Zillette doing?
Scooter
June 16th, 2010
2:36 pm
josef nix
June 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
A refreshing voice of reason. Thank you! I needed that.
Paul
June 16th, 2010
2:36 pm
josef nix
“I am old enough to have been a participant in “The Revolution” of the 1960s and no small few of the lunatic fringe elements on the left, then, too, invoked the 2nd Amendment. ”
Heh heh heh. I’ll bet that gets the same response I got when I noted to the ‘Clinton draft dodger/Cheney deferments/Bush Air Guard’ group that the 60s were a different time, that those with deferments other outs were envied by without the connections to win the game, and ‘Support the Troops’ would’ve gotten you a peace sign whacked on your head.
Hi DDR!
Hey there Granny!!! Welcome back!!! There’s some bloggers here need enlightenment -
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:37 pm
Reb,
“and watch a little Glenn Beck or listen to Mark Levine.”
I’d personally rather shove bamboo shoots under my toe nails.
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:37 pm
Bosch
They do you too.
Weather or not you want to admit it is your problem.
It is called coercion. Some people are wired to submit. Others are not.
Adam Smith & Wesson
June 16th, 2010
2:39 pm
Jay (and Granny), how do you think our government maintains control over the unwashed masses, illegals, upstarts and revolutionaries? By force (or the threat of force). Who serves a homeowner with a foreclosure notice? Not the bank. The local sherrif’s office. Who physically removes a family from a foreclosed property, or executes an eviction notice? The landlord? Nope, the police. I’m sure most of the folks on this blog have been to the courthouse for jury duty or whatever. Ever notice how they send you through a metal detector, but all the bailiffs are armed? Brian Nichols used a Fulton County deputy’s side arm to kill four people. The government wants the 2nd Amendment because it makes people think they have some sort of power or insurance policy against tyranny. And JohnnyReb, it seems to me that Ms. Angle doesn’t give a rat’s behind about the 2nd Amendment. It would appear you don’t understand the context of her comments. She was crying wolf and nothing more. She was groveling for votes. It was “red meat” and nothing more. Wake up people. The 2nd Amendment is an illusion; a card trick.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:40 pm
jt,
Got hyperbole? If you don’t want to pay your taxes, then don’t. Or, if you feel you are somehow burdened by your high taxes, then shop around and see if you can find a better deal.
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:40 pm
Glen Beck, Mark Levine and Sean Hannity? The unholy trinity of the far right? Sorry, I do not worship false idols.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:41 pm
eyes,
And I don’t listen to the insane.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
Paul! OMG, the Swiss beat Spain!!! Spain!!!
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
jt, and some people like Angle have their wires crossed.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
OK, Johnny Reb, if Angle’s suggestion that people are eyeing “Second Amendment remedies” to turn the nation around isn’t clear enough for you, how about this similar statement from Angle a month ago to a Reno newspaper:
“What is a little bit disconcerting and concerning is the inability for sporting goods stores to keep ammunition in stock,” she said. “That tells me the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn’t that they are so distrustful of their government? They’re afraid they’ll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways?
“That’s why I look at this as almost an imperative. If we don’t win at the ballot box, what will be the next step?”
Seems pretty damn clear to me. If they can’t win at the ballot box, they might “fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways.
Now, what was that you were saying again?
DebbieDoRight
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
Hi Paul!! Hey Granny, Bosch and josef!! Hot enough for ya?! (It’s required, while living in the south, to ask that question by the way — no response is necessary).
JohnnyReb
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
Bosch, know your opposition. Why do you think I read you guys on this blog? I hope you don’t believe I think that I can change your politics.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
josef nix:
Good to see you here to help with some reasoning.
You are correct about the 1960’s. Our younger generation has no concept of what went on.
Just one example: Everyone forgets (or doesn’t know) that there was a time when the entire White House complex was ringed with big buses stem to stern. There were about 200,000 shall we say to be kind “protesters” camped on the mall and the hard intelligence was that they were coming by the thousands over the buses to burn the White House down. A company of U.S. Army infantry was brought into the complex and machine guns were set up on the White House lawn. A decision was made that if they “came over the buses” the White House was not going to be burned down.
Sometimes I wish they had tried ………………..
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Bosch, and Brazil did not look too good in beating North Korea 2-1 yesterday.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Do you pay your taxes, jt? File your 1040s just like the rest of us?
Granny Godzilla
June 16th, 2010
2:44 pm
Bosch
Zillette #1 at 29 weeks, Baby G scheduled to land 1st week of September. #2 eloped! So far so good….and Mr G just had his last shot of radiation. Life is good.
How are the Boschies?
Howdy Paul.
josef nix
June 16th, 2010
2:44 pm
Granny
Been missing you!
Scooter–
Hey back at ya! I caught what you were saying with “G-d and country…” Some people don’t want a simple answer and assume, just because you give them one, that you agree with that answer!
PAUL
How well I remember that time and place. It was a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight. I’ve told this story before, but my eyes were opened when, a long haired hippie with my peace sign around my neck, went to the War Memorial in my home town to buy my pow bracelet. The fellow behind the counter didn’t want to sell me one. I put up quite a protest, this being the style of the times, and he finally did. I wore it. I wore it to the peace rally where I was challenged just as vociferously and just as partisanly.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
2:46 pm
Y’all crazies talking about taking up arms against the duly elected government of the United States can have Alaska, Texas, Michigan and Montana…the rest of us sane people will have the rest.
But y’all have to take all the right-wing pundits with you…including Coulter. That’s the deal.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
DebbieDoRight:
1) I think you meant President Johnson not Davis.
However, your facts are wrong. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up. Congress wanted Jefferson Davis’ head. The Attorney General and two special prosecutors refused to indict him for treason because they felt they might lose. You can ignore that if you want but ……………
2) No it wasn’t treason for two reasons:
a) We won.
b) For it to be treason you have to be “convicted” of it.
josef nix
June 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
DDR
And in case you missed it this time around, again, I’ve been giving the President credit for making a good decision announced last night.
And JAY
Did you catch any ref to “fierce advocate?” I didn’t and in reading over the speech this a.m. did not see those words…am I missing them? Or did his handlers tell him he best not use that phrase?
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:40 pm
jt,
Got hyperbole? If you don’t want to pay your taxes, then don’t. Or, if you feel you are somehow burdened by your high taxes, then shop around and see if you can find a better deal.
I don’t have that option Bosch. I will be murdered for not paying taxes.
There are better ways than using the police powers of the state to maintain our society. Thankfully , the majority in this nation are catching on.
As far as shopping around, ,,,,,,,,,,why don’t you statists shop around? North Korea should be your paradise as far as statism is concerned.
Leave the freedom loving patriots here.
With all due respect.
N-GA
June 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
Joan – You say we try to vote them out of office, but that is becoming harder to do because they are funded by bribery and corrupt lobbiests (sic).
So many people make that excuse, but what do you mean by that? A lobbyist has 1 vote. Corporations have no votes. If American voters can clearly see what a politician is doing (or not doing), they can rally other voters. Kinda like the T-Nuts, only smarter. The problem is that many voters continue to vote for bad politicians. This happens regardless of political party.
Many voters don’t vote for the candidate, they vote for the ideology or issue (ie – anti-abortion). But the bigger problem tends to be voter apathy….those who rationalize that their one vote won’t really make a difference.
My aunt would vote for whoever her minister told her to vote for without questioning him at all. So would most of her elderly (over 75 yrs old) neighbors. But if you had them all sitting in front of a candidate who told them he wanted to eliminate social security and medicare, they would rush the stage with their walkers and beat him to death with their canes!
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
Jay:
Are you ignoring my 2:02? Shame on you.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:49 pm
Mrs. G.,
“and Mr G just had his last shot of radiation.”
Errr? Does he have a little tattoo to mark the spot?
So, what are we gonna call the baby zillette? Did you hear I have puppies?
The Boschies are good – oldest Boschie is home for the summer, so that’s good, and the other two are already bored. The World Cup is keeping us busy. Have you heard? We love soccer.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:50 pm
“I will be murdered for not paying taxes. ”
Okay, now I know who to scroll past from now on. Geez.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
eyes,
I think they were just too over confident, they thought the North Koreans would be starved and a pushover.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
2:52 pm
“I will be murdered for not paying taxes.”
And the Oscar for best Drama goes to…………. jt!
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:52 pm
P.S. to DebbieDoRight:
The “people” did not rise up against the U.S. (that would have been a “civil” war). Individual States (through their duly elected representatives) did.
Thus, the war between the “United States (oxymoron) of America” and the “Confederate States of America.”
josef !!!! Help me out here. There is a lot of ignorance of history out therer.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:52 pm
Or how about this one, Johnny Reb:
Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who’s in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical…
Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.
Angle: Well it’s to defend ourselves. And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.
The same implication. She hopes the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems. But if it’s not?
This is the GOP candidate for U.S. Senate from Nevada. This is what we’ve come to in this country.
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:53 pm
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Do you pay your taxes, jt? File your 1040s just like the rest of us?
I do Jay.
Unlike you, I am not happy paying for banksters, unjust wars, and politically connected crooks. And I try to stop it.
Cowered sheep not.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
2:54 pm
“This is the GOP candidate for U.S. Senate from Nevada. This is what we’ve come to in this country.”
I place the blame squarely on Celine Dion…her singing is slowly driving those in the state insane…
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:55 pm
Scout, you issue many invitations to follow you down the rabbit hole. Excuse me if I decline once again….
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:55 pm
jt,
Did you know that Jay can see what you type as you type it?
jt
June 16th, 2010
2:55 pm
And the Oscar for best Drama goes to…………. jt!
Thanks JCB.
It is true.
theyeshaveit
June 16th, 2010
2:56 pm
josef, what you said to Paul reminds me so much of my last days in the military and the first several days as a civilian. I was participating, along with a group of Johns Hopkins students, in an anti-war protest at Charles Center in downtown Baltimore. My hair was getting a little long then (I was maybe two months out of the Air Force). A middle-aged man came up to me, looked me in the face and asked, “Are you a communist?” “No,” I said, “I am an Air Force veteran.” He went abruptly silent and walked away.
By the way, the Baltimore newspaper that day sported the following headline (I am spelling it just as it was then) Mayor D’Allesandro Calls For End To Pubic Demonstrations
Adam Smith & Wesson
June 16th, 2010
2:56 pm
Jay, Tell me you’re pulling JohnnyReb’s leg. Angle is working an angle. I don’t know if you own a firearm, but in the first 6-12 months following Obama’s election it was nearly impossible to purchase ammo because every right-wing nut job was warning of “gun control”. It was a price gouging ruse, rooted in baseless fears and nothing more. Did you see Sarah Palin’s comments at last month’s NRA soire in NC? “Obama would take your guns if he could…” Again, she threw a bunch of red meat to gun owners and it wasn’t even real meat (as if she knows what Obama thinks, or what he can and cannot do). I was, literally “mystery meat”. You folks (journalists) play into the hands of people like Angle. This is Dennis Rodman or Lady GaGa stuff; let me say/do something crazy, so long as the camera is focused on me. I mean, really; do you think people are buying ammo to overthrow the government?
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:57 pm
“I will be murdered for not paying taxes” ………… no but ……….
You can be “killed” for not paying taxes if you pose a threat.
1) “Revenue Agents” will audit you and determine your tax.
2) If you refuse to pay, “Revenue Officers” will eventually come to seize your property (house, car, etc.).
3) If you violently resist, the “Special Agents” who accompany Revenue Officers to protect them will arrest you or use deadly force if required.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
2:57 pm
Josef, the words were not in the speech, apparently stricken at the last minute. Apparently they follow this blog’s contents very closely, and realized the mistake they were about to make.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:57 pm
Diegoooooooooooo!!!!!!!! GOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!!!!!!
TaxPayer
June 16th, 2010
2:58 pm
Are Angle, Scout and JohnnyReb doing a little threesome thing.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
2:58 pm
Jay:
Yes ……….. your previous record and your bellicose statement today caught up with you. I don’t blame you for the dodge.
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
2:59 pm
Scout,
By that same logic, you could be murdered for not paying a parking ticket.
josef nix
June 16th, 2010
2:59 pm
Scout
Oh, I’m enjoying just riding my camel through Milan Kundera’s Desert of Organized Forgetting!
RAMBLE ON!!!
June 16th, 2010
2:59 pm
She could have said worse, like “We are just looking to spread the wealth”.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
Scout,
“I don’t blame you for the dodge.”
Do you have Chrysler stock?
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
Taxpayer:
Nope ………. re: my 2:57 ……… been there done that ……….. but thankfully they always went in cuffs.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
jewcowboy:
LOL !
Granny Godzilla
June 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
Bosch
I’m going to hate when those little tattos fade…..great apres shower
target…whack!
RAMBLE ON!!!
June 16th, 2010
3:00 pm
maybe it’s her way of “finding some ass to kick”?
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
Scout is such a champion in his mind.
Dude, some of us don’t entertain the insane.
Jay
June 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
Adam Smith, I agree with you about that ginned-up scare to peddle ammo. I agree that the concept of an armed overthrow of the government is an impossibility.
We disagree, apparently, about the sincerity of people such as Angle in nonetheless believing such nonsense, and in the danger that some of those deluded folks will try to act on those beliefs and fears. All those people who bought that ammunition weren’t buying it to hunt rabbits, to borrow the Vegas headline phrase.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:02 pm
Bosch:
No ……….. but you could be “killed” for not paying a parking ticket if when the police come to serve the warrant you do something that causes them to “render you incapable of continuing the action which promted them to shoot” ………………
Matilda
June 16th, 2010
3:03 pm
Sounds to me like jt is a freeloader.
Scout,
Bull hooey. RICH Southerners wanted to control their own land and money and not pay taxes. The average un-moneyed grunt had no choice in the secession or the war (no representation in either government), nor slave assets from which to squeeze every drop of life. All the southerners suffered for the selfish demands of the rich. Much like today. BTW, FEEL FREE TO MOVE TO TEXAS AND START ANOTHER SECESSIONIST MOVEMENT. Pin your combat ribbons on your chest and go for it. PLEASE.
Paul
June 16th, 2010
3:03 pm
Bosch 2:42
Spain? Didn’t they, like, invent soccer?
That’s what I like – on any day absolutely anything can happen.
Jay
““That tells me the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn’t that they are so distrustful of their government? They’re afraid they’ll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways?
“That’s why I look at this as almost an imperative. If we don’t win at the ballot box, what will be the next step?””
Without knowing much about this woman or her background, I have to say this sounds more like an observation and concern if candidates like herself aren’t elected to provide a relief valve for the nutjobs, there’s no telling what they’ll do next. Not that she’s advocating a next step or sees herself as part of their group.
jewcowboy
“Y’all crazies talking about taking up arms against the duly elected government of the United States can have Alaska, Texas, Michigan and Montana…the rest of us sane people will have the rest.”
Oh geez… I am SO tired of moving….
Hi N-GA
It’s not just the older, older folks who willingly submit to being told what to think without critical evaluation -
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:04 pm
Bosch :
IRS-CID (1972-75)
SOOHSO
June 16th, 2010
3:04 pm
Enter your comments here
Bosch
June 16th, 2010
3:04 pm
Scout,
So, in other words, by your logic you could be murdered for not paying a parking ticket.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
3:04 pm
“Chris Rock: Everybody is talking about gun control. Got to control the guns. F*ck, that, I like guns. If you’ve got a gun, you don’t need to work out! Cause, I ain’t working out. I ain’t jogging. No, I think we need some bullet control. I think every bullet should cost five thousand dollars. Five thousand dollars for a bullet. Know why? Cos if a bullet cost five thousand dollars, there’d be no more innocent by-standers. That’d be it. Some guy’d be shot you’d be all ‘Damn, he must’ve done something, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass!’ And people’d think before they shot someone ‘Man I will blow your f*cking head off, if I could afford it. I’m gonna get me a second job, start saving up, and you a dead man. You’d better hope I don’t get no bullets on lay-away!’ And even if you get shot you wouldn’t need to go to the emergency room. Whoever shot you’d take their bullet back. ‘I believe you got my property?’ ” ~ Chris Rock
TaxPayer
June 16th, 2010
3:06 pm
These little community schools and churches are clearly not preparing folks like Angle, Bachmann, Palin etc., for life in the real world.
DebbieDoRight
June 16th, 2010
3:06 pm
Scout – In honor of you I looked up the LEGAL definition of treason, (which follows). Pay special attention to the paragraph that gives example of the treasonous acts of the Civil War. Please read it for yourself, and as it says in the bible, “those who have ears will hear, and those who have eyes will see”; all others are considered Republicans (Debbie’s add-in — I couldn’t help myself).
Legal Definition of TREASON (link attached to end of paragraphs)
Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason within the meaning of the Constitution. The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.
The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution. Nor do acts of Espionage committed on behalf of an ally constitute treason. For example, julius and ethel rosenberg were convicted of espionage, in 1951, for helping the Soviet Union steal atomic secrets from the United States during World War II. The Rosenbergs were not tried for treason because the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during World War II.
Under Article III a person can levy war against the United States without the use of arms, weapons, or military equipment. Persons who play only a peripheral role in a conspiracy to levy war are still considered traitors under the Constitution if an armed rebellion against the United States results. After the U.S. Civil War, for example, all Confederate soldiers were vulnerable to charges of treason, regardless of their role in the secession or insurrection of the Southern states. No treason charges were filed against these soldiers, however, because President Andrew Johnson issued a universal Amnesty.
The crime of treason requires a traitorous intent. If a person unwittingly or unintentionally gives aid and comfort to an enemy of the United States during wartime, treason has not occurred. Similarly, a person who pursues a course of action that is intended to benefit the United States but mistakenly helps an enemy is not guilty of treason. Inadvertent disloyalty is never punishable as treason, no matter how much damage the United States suffers.
As in any other criminal trial in the United States, a defendant charged with treason is presumed innocent until proved guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. Treason may be proved by a voluntary confession in open court or by evidence that the defendant committed an Overt Act of treason. Each overt act must be witnessed by at least two people, or a conviction for treason will not stand. By requiring this type of direct evidence, the Constitution minimizes the danger of convicting an innocent person and forestalls the possibility of partisan witch-hunts waged by a single adversary.
Unexpressed seditious thoughts do not constitute treason, even if those thoughts contemplate a bloody revolution or coup. Nor does the public expression of subversive opinions, including vehement criticism of the government and its policies, constitute treason. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of all Americans to advocate the violent overthrow of their government unless such advocacy is directed toward inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to produce it (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 89 S. Ct. 1827, 23 L. Ed. 2d 430 [1969]). On the other hand, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the distribution of leaflets protesting the draft during World War I was not constitutionally protected speech (schenck v. united states, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 [1919]).
Because treason involves the betrayal of allegiance to the United States, a person need not be a U.S. citizen to commit treason under the Constitution. Persons who owe temporary allegiance to the United States can commit treason. Aliens who are domiciliaries of the United States, for example, can commit traitorous acts during the period of their domicile. A subversive act does not need to occur on U.S. soil to be punishable as treason. For example, Mildred Gillars, a U.S. citizen who became known as Axis Sally, was convicted of treason for broadcasting demoralizing propaganda to Allied forces in Europe from a Nazi radio station in Germany during World War II.
Treason is punishable by death. If a death sentence is not imposed, defendants face a minimum penalty of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine (18 U.S.C.A. § 2381). A person who is convicted of treason may not hold federal office at any time thereafter.
The English common law required defendants to forfeit all of their property, real and personal, upon conviction for treason. In some cases, the British Crown confiscated the property of immediate family members as well. The common law also precluded convicted traitors from bequeathing their property through a will. Relatives were presumed to be tainted by the blood of the traitor and were not permitted to inherit from him. Article III of the U.S. Constitution outlaws such “corruption of the blood” and limits the penalty of Forfeiture to “the life of the person attainted.” Under this provision relatives cannot be made to forfeit their property or inheritance for crimes committed by traitorous family members.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason
Paul
June 16th, 2010
3:07 pm
Jay
Your 2:52 answers my question if Angle’s just commenting or if she shares the philosophy.
All righty then. Sen Reid: you’ve been given a gift. Providence has smiled on you. God really does love Mormons.
It’s yours to blow -
TaxPayer
June 16th, 2010
3:07 pm
Does Scout use a Hoveround or a motorized walker.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
Matilda:
It was States rights then just like it is now. It’s the Northwestern states and Hawaii who are talking the secession thing most right now.
By the way are you keeping up with the number of States who are going to court against the Federal government on the Obamacare thing as well as the “firearms manufactured solely within their state” cases?
These will be interesting and more to come. People are tired of a Federal government out of control.
jewcowboy
June 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
Paul,
“It’s yours to blow -”
Isn’t that the new tag line for Vegas?
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:09 pm
TaxPayer:
Since I still job my three miles every other day I wouldn’t know. How about you?
Adam Smith & Wesson
June 16th, 2010
3:09 pm
Bosch, if you live in Atlanta, you can be murdered for being a 92 year-old grandmother watching TV. If you live in NYC, you can be murdered (shot 41 times) for reaching into your jacket to retrieve your ID – as directed by the police officers who believed you were someone else. The second amendment give us the impotent “right to bear arms” but the police and the military are the only ones with the right to use them indiscriminately.
Scout
June 16th, 2010
3:09 pm
Excuse me ……….. “jog”
BADA BING
June 16th, 2010
3:11 pm
Why do people hate weapons? A weapon, by itself, never killed ANYBODY! It is a tool that someone used to kill someone, it had to be picked up, loaded , and effort of some sort had to be exerted by a human. It is not evil, or good. It is an inert object. We need PEOPLE CONTROL, not gun control.