Memorial Day: A time to honor and remember
On the morning of Dec. 7, 1941, 32-year-old John Finn lay in bed with his wife, Alice, not far from the Kaneohe Bay Naval Air Station near Pearl Harbor, where he served as chief ordnance man. He saw a plane flash by his bedroom window, then another one. And then he heard machine guns, and knew something was very wrong. He jumped out of bed and hurried to dress.
“Those goddamn Japs. I should have hated ‘em. The bastards screwed up my nooky on a Sunday morning,” Finn told an interviewer years later.
Finn rushed to the air station, arriving as a squadron of Japanese Zeros were strafing the flight line. With no antiaircraft guns deployed at the base, sailors were forced to try to defend themselves and the station with machine guns on the runway.
“As he stood out on the runway firing his .30 caliber, Finn was peppered by pieces of shrapnel as the diving planes strafed the concrete runways with 20 m cannon.
“I actually counted. I got shot in the left arm and shot in the left foot, broke the bone. I had shrapnel blows in my chest and belly and right elbow and right thumb. Some were just scratches. My scalp got cut, and everybody thought I was dying: ‘Oh Christ, the old chief had the top of his head knocked off.’ I didn’t even know. As far as I know, I never got hit by a single complete bullet but I had four or five things that were serious. I had twenty-eight, twenty-nine holes in me that were bleeding. I was walking around on one heel. I was barefooted on that coral dust. My left arm didn’t work. It was just a big ball hanging down.’
He also narrowly avoided a bomb blast.
‘There were several times I left that gun, when I couldn’t see a plane anywhere, I’d run back in my armory, kick somebody in the ass, fix the .caliber when it got jammed, and get back to the .30. I saw these planes coming, five bombers way up there, and I had a hundred-round belt go because I was absolutely walking the gun along with the plane. I was letting the gun cover, right ahead, leading the planes, and I was actually leading ‘em.’”
Medal of Honor recipient John Finn salutes at a ceremony at Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 2006. (AP Photo/Lucy Pemoni)
For his bravery that day, Finn received the Medal of Honor. The account above is taken from “Beyond Glory: Medal of Honor Heroes in Their Own Words.”
Unlike many of the heroes of that day, and that war, Finn lived to tell his story, enjoying a long, full life. He died Thursday in San Diego at the age of 100.
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195 comments Add your comment
Del
May 31st, 2010
7:35 am
R.I.P. Chief Finn
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
8:19 am
Good morning to all.
As we honor and remember, I thought it interesting that, according to the story link, John Finn was the oldest living recipient of the Medal of Honor.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
8:22 am
Yesterday I mentioned a feature-length piece from the Gwinnett Daily Post about tribute paid to two veterans whose remains were properly interred at the Georgia National Cemetery in Cherokee County, after having been forgotten and neglected for years.
I see that the AJC had covered this in a news story earlier this week as well: link is here–
http://www.ajc.com/news/cherokee/claimed-at-last-dead-536883.html
tm
May 31st, 2010
8:33 am
Day is done, gone the sun
From the lakes, from the hills, from the skies
All is well, safely rest;
God is nigh.
Then goodnight, peaceful night;
Till the light of the dawn shineth bright.
God is near, do not fear,
Friend, goodnight.
Ponder
May 31st, 2010
8:34 am
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. – John F. Kennedy
TnGelding
May 31st, 2010
8:50 am
How many more have to be maimed or killed in senseless wars? That’s what we need to remember. Those that were sacrificed need to be honored as well, but spare me the histrionics. Liberty? Very poetic, but just words to justify meddlesome interventions.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
8:55 am
OT #1:
The lovely and talented “Culture of Truth” watches the Sunday Morning bobblehead shows so you don’t have to.
Transcript here.
(I read it so I can laugh to keep from crying.)
jt
May 31st, 2010
8:56 am
Brave words Gelding. I salute you. Yep, the NYT, WAPO, and others sure do “prettify” war on this solemn day.
It ain’t.
From John Walsh, a great American————–
“Many say that the media hides the wars now waged by the U.S. in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. But it is worse than that. While hiding the death and destruction and certainly blotting out any graphic images of it, our poor excuse for journalism is awash with feel-good stories about the wars. The war in Korea was televised to a limited extent and contributed to American revulsion at Truman’s war and his welcome replacement by the pacific Republican Eisenhower not yet brought under the influence of the rabid Dulles brothers. The same happened with Viet Nam leading to the abrupt departure of another Democrat, Johnson.
But our rulers learned their lesson well. No more graphic images come to us from the battlefield. They are censored by being cut off at their source. Worse, the war is systematically prettified by the media. Such is the function of the servile journalism of the Empire.”
@@
May 31st, 2010
9:01 am
jay, the caption under the photo reads, John Fill. Is your John Finn, the guy in the photo?
Just curious?
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
9:06 am
@@, good catch. I’m assuming the gentleman depicted in the Beyond Glory page link (John Finn) is indeed the same person in the AP photo on Jay’s post.
Jay
May 31st, 2010
9:08 am
Thanks @@, Same guy, my bad. Now fixed.
Curious Observer
May 31st, 2010
9:13 am
May their souls rest in eternal peace, all those veterans who died so that some faux-religious scumbags could have the freedom to picket at funerals and mock the deaths of veterans who died. And a salute to those living who served, instead of hiding behind college deferments, faking injuries, and even deserting to foreign countries.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
9:20 am
all those veterans who died so that some faux-religious scumbags could have the freedom to picket at funerals and mock the deaths of veterans who died.
Just in case anyone was not aware–a group called the Patriot Riders organized, originally, to represent those of us who find such demonstrations reprehensible (am I safe to say it’s around 98%?) and shield the families from such signage.
As they say in their mission statement:
The Patriot Guard Riders is a diverse amalgamation of riders from across the nation. We have one thing in common besides motorcycles. We have an unwavering respect for those who risk their very lives for America’s freedom and security. If you share this respect, please join us.
We don’t care what you ride or if you ride, what your political views are, or whether you’re a hawk or a dove. It is not a requirement that you be a veteran. It doesn’t matter where you’re from or what your income is; you don’t even have to ride. The only prerequisite is Respect.
And I see from their website that they plan to be there to pay homage to Lt. John Finn on June 3 in El Cajon, CA.
david wayne osedach
May 31st, 2010
9:23 am
We will pause at noon today to commemorate those who gave their lives for our country.
@@
May 31st, 2010
9:31 am
stands:
I can understand how you missed it. You’re not so much focused on the veterans who gave their all, as you are “the religious scumbags”. Who knows, John Fill, may have, very well, been both.
Give it a rest, dude.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
9:37 am
Freeing up my 9:33
“Those g*ddamn Japs. I should have hated ‘em. The b*stards screwed up my nooky on a Sunday morning,” Finn told an interviewer years later.
Now, there’s every American’s Uncle John. Thanks for including this quote.
jconservative
May 31st, 2010
9:46 am
Remember what Memorial Day is all about guys. Keep it clean and honorable in memory of those who have fallen.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
9:47 am
jconservative
@ 9:46
I second that.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
9:48 am
You’re not so much focused on the veterans who gave their all, as you are “the religious scumbags”.
Jeez, @@, completely get things wrong much?
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
9:50 am
Keep it clean and honorable in memory of those who have fallen.
I couldn’t agree more. I actually winced when I read Curious Observer’s post, but then I remembered the Patriot Riders’ noble mission and I wanted to let people know that they were out there, trying to right a wrong.
@@
May 31st, 2010
9:56 am
stands:
Curious Observer took the lead at 9:13, and you followed at 9:20. That’s all I’m sayin’.
Should’a left CO’s post as a stand alone. A man oustanding in “his field” so to speak.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
10:07 am
“A society coheres only when it shares beliefs and experiences, and humans rarely value things that are acquired at no cost. With a minuscule percentage of people making a contribution to our defense, we will not be successful in protecting a country of more than three hundred million people, worldwide obligations, and threat from a variety of malefactors who want to see us destroyed.”
Colonel Jack Jacobs (retired, Medal of Honor – Vietnam)
TaxPayer
May 31st, 2010
10:07 am
Curious Observer
May 31st, 2010
9:13 am
May their souls rest in eternal peace, all those veterans who died so that some faux-religious scumbags could have the freedom to picket at funerals and mock the deaths of veterans who died. And a salute to those living who served, instead of hiding behind college deferments, faking injuries, and even deserting to foreign countries.
All I see is Curious Observer exercising the same right as anyone else can, subject to the blog owner’s limitations, naturally.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
10:11 am
That’s all I’m sayin’.
No. It’s not.
I am a church member. I consider myself among the religious.
You accused me of defaming people who are religious, and you did it by deliberately misquoting me. I could not allow something like that to stand.
Were I to get something of yours so thoroughly wrong and I were called out on it, I would apologize to you, as I have apologized to others in the past. I’ve even apologized to Fainting Couch mike, fercryinoutloud.
(I will leave it at that, because this thread’s not about me, and I’m sorry if I’m overindulging here.)
SOUTHERN ATL
May 31st, 2010
10:11 am
God Bless America…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LSarhZpnMs&feature=related
Scout
May 31st, 2010
10:16 am
RIBBONS OF AN UNFINISHED CAMPAIGN :
I was walking my boxer “Corporal” one day and decided to put on paper some of the thoughts running through my mind – mainly for those who know about these things, but also for the few who care as well as those sons and daughters who may one day find themselves rumaging through their Vietnam veteran father’s trunk or old boxes.
A “ribbon” is defined as “a woven strip or band of fine material”. Military style ribbons of course are much more than that. They also tell a story.
These few ribbons tell a simple story but one I would like to share with you.
A military uniform is just not right without at least one ribbon so anyone who signed up during the Vietnam War received the “National Defense Service” ribbon. These have been awarded since 1950 to anyone serving in our nation’s armed forces during a time of war or conflict. It bascially meant you were willing to go to Vietnam (except maybe for some of the draftees) whether you were sent there or not. We jokingly called it the “firewatch” ribbon – meaning you earned it during training by walking firewatch at night to ensure the barracks didn’t burn down with all hands ! It was the only ribbon you wore when you marched out for bootcamp graduation but it sure looked good !
Everyone who went to Vietnam was authorized the “Vietnam Service” ribbon. It meant you served “in harm’s way” whether you were a computer specialist working in an air conditioned office in Saigon or a grunt up at the DMZ. The design of the ribbon was based on the South Vietnamese flag which consisted of three verticle red stripes on a field of bright yellow. We used to joke that their flag should have been red with three “yellow” stripes – but their armed forces did struggle for a long time against immense odds. I think the green verticle bars on each end represent the verdant landscape of Vietnam. For me it represents the “jungle” ………….
“Presidential Unit Citation” ribbons are just that – a citation awarded by the President of the United States to a particular “unit” for actions in a particular battle or time frame. I my case this blue, gold and red ribbon was awarded to the 3rd Marine Division for its efforts in preventing the North Vietnamese Army from invading South Vietnam across the Demilitarized Zone. Way too many good, young Marines gave their lives doing that.
The “Combat Action” ribbon is awarded to any Marine or sailor (usually a corpsman) involved in “ground combat” against an enemy of the United States. This is basically the Marine Corps “grunt” award and we are proud of it.
But there is one more ribbon that means more to me in a nostalgic way than the others. It’s not the Purple Heart. I often wonder why, but I was blessed to come home unscathed and I thank the Lord for that often. It’s not an heroic award. I was never deserving of an award of that type.
No, it is the “Republic of Vietnam Campaign” ribbon awarded by the government of South Vietnam to all American military personnel (and many other nationalities) who served in Vietnam.
Please look at the silver colored banner with the date “1960 – “.
Notice there is no closing date …………….
At some point in the future, Vietnam veterans were to obtain an updated ribbon with a closing date – perhaps 1970 or later. But that didn’t happen and never will. Why ? The government of South Vietnam no longer exists to authorize and issue such an updated ribbon. That all ended on April 30, 1975 when Saigon fell. As a result, the original “1960 – ” ribbon will always symbolize, to me at least, an “unfinished campaign”.
And I think the ribbon is actually more meaningful this way because the war never had an appropriate closure for many of us. Nothing that traumatic – most of us adjusted quite well in life. Still, those events of so long ago just seem to rest there in the back of my mind. I experience them occasionally (as I think most other “grunts” do) on a hike as I walk toward a treeline, or under the heat of a summer noonday sun, or as I slip between those cool, clean sheets at night – remembering ……………….
I am always thankful that I did not have to pay the ultimate price.
Through the story of these ribbons, I honor those who did.
May God bless America and Semper Fi ……………….
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
10:27 am
“You’re not so much focused on the veterans who gave their all, as you are “the religious scumbags”. Who knows, John Fill, may have, very well, been both.”
It doesn’t matter if he was or not. To me, honoring our Vets also means not being blind to the times when they are sent to die for a lie. And that HAS been done, and there will always be attempts to do it again. We should ALL..soldiers or not…be vigilant to that. We honor our soldiers most when we ask them to put their lives on the line to TRULY protect our freedom.
TaxPayer
May 31st, 2010
10:35 am
We could all aspire to be more like John — Make love, not war but stand ready to make war on anyone that interrupts your love making. Make war on the war machine.
Soothsayer
May 31st, 2010
10:38 am
The BP Deepwater Oil Spill – Why Top Kill May Have Failed and Monday Open Thread
This is a detailed and somewhat technical post about what went wrong with the “top kill” and the likelihood of stopping the flow of oil by other means. It contains some detailed illustrations that will help you understand what is going on.
I know it’s off topic but this is very much on people’s minds these days.
RW-(the original)
May 31st, 2010
10:46 am
Sometimes a picture says it all.
Thanks for the great tribute post today, Jay B. It’s a crying shame your leftist groupies can’t follow your lead and put the politics down for a day.
See y’all tomorrow.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
10:47 am
I heard this interview on NPR yesterday about Mr. Finn. Died at 100 – wow, that’s a long rewarding life, and glad he could live to tell his story for the rest of us.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
10:50 am
“put the politics down for a day”
There is never going to be a time when honoring FALLEN soldiers can be separated from politics. They are joined at the hip. Always have been, always will be.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
10:53 am
“that’s a long rewarding life”
It is indeed, and I found it intriguing that he is quoted as saying he SHOULD HAVE hated the Japanese. If that quote it accurate, it shows a depth of forgiveness worthy of emulation.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
10:56 am
Doggone,
“it shows a depth of forgiveness worthy of emulation.”
Yeap, it does. And I’m glad he lived to spend many more Sunday mornings with Mrs. Finn!
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
11:09 am
In the movie: Letters from Iwo Jima, director Clint Eastwood depicted American Soldiers as killing captured Japanese prisoners in cold blood because they were just too much trouble to watch.
In the meanwhile, he depicted the Japanese as risking their own lives to go out and bring in American wounded and giving those wounded Americans care, refuge and food.
With the passing of John Finn, we are reminded that with each passing day, the few remaining veterans of WWII are leaving us. The truth of what they saw and did will accompany these brave men to their graves, leaving their stories to be told by people who were never there and who will almost always have a political slant to the ways that these stories are told.
These men are already being dishonored by a element of our society that has huge power to alter the truth, telling whatever they want to tell our future generations about these men and the sacrifices they made.
Please honor these men in every way you can. Don’t allow a shallow political anti-American slant be the historians.
Pray every day that the truth about what these men have done is always told, and the lies and anti-American propaganda, spewed from the pens and mouths of these criminal lying zealots are lost and only the truth remains.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
11:15 am
Would like to share excellent article:
Remembering war time sacrifice
http://www.episcopalchurch.org/81840_122554_ENG_HTM.htm
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:18 am
“These men are already being dishonored by a element of our society that has huge power to alter the truth, telling whatever they want to tell our future generations about these men and the sacrifices they made.”
And telling the truth about dishonorable soldiers in NO WAY dishonors those with the courage to BE honorable. Telling the truth is NEVER dishonorable.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
11:20 am
In ww2, people didn’t worry about the Japanese lives, civilians, reasons, feelings , just kill them until they surrender. As it should be done in all war.
Now Jay says that it’s better if we sometimes lose soldiers in order to make sure we dont harm enemy civilians. Retarded
This is why I hate people. Liberal idiocy worrying about the lives of the enemy. Their lives have no value.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
11:25 am
“This is why I hate people. Liberal idiocy worrying about the lives of the enemy. Their lives have no value.”
Oh my freaking God.
(SoCo, if you should check in – that one goes off the
scale don’t cha’ think?)
TetVet68
May 31st, 2010
11:25 am
Remember Pearl Harbor — Keep America Alert!
(Now deceased) America’s oldest living Medal of Honor recipient, living his 101st year is former enlisted Chief Petty Officer, Aviation Chief Ordnanceman (ACOM), later wartime commissioned Lieutenant John W. Finn, U. S. Navy (Ret.). He is also the last surviving Medal of Honor, “The Day of Infamy”, Japanese Attack on the Hawaiian Islands, Naval Air Station, Kaneohe Bay, Oahu, Territory of Hawaii, 7 December 1941.
Visit my photo album tribute:
http://news.webshots.com/album/141695570BONFYl
San Diego, California
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:27 am
“This is why I hate people”
If you hate people so much, why are you still living? Seems to me there’s at least ONE person you don’t hate.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
11:27 am
“Now Jay says that it’s better if we sometimes lose soldiers in order to make sure we dont harm enemy civilians. Retarded”
No, what is retarded is to just make up sh*t.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
11:35 am
“This is why I hate people. Liberal idiocy worrying about the lives of the enemy. Their lives have no value.”
Are you comfortable with that standard being applied both ways, laissez faire?
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
11:36 am
I made up nothing..it’s from Bookmans “book length project”..due to fail at amazon.com soon, no doubt.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2009/09/28/its-a-cold-truth-war-means-putting-our-troops-lives-at-risk/
Liberal worry more about the subhuman piece of sht Pashtoon scum in afghanistan than the lives of the soldiers there, and thats sad because a pashtoons life has no value to me.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
11:37 am
And that DOES work both ways. I assure you our enemies do not give a single damn about our lives, they would be fools to do so….
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:44 am
Here’s the leading quote from that blog: “Gen. Stanley McChrystal laid out a change of strategy in Afghanistan that at first sounds counter-intuitive. Use less firepower against the enemy, even when that decision increases the danger to American troops. In his mind and that of Gen. David Petraeus, protecting the Afghan people from danger — whether that danger comes from the Taliban or ourselves — is more important than killing Taliban”
I find it interesting that you will come here and castigate Jay for quoting the decision of TWO Generals…but have nothing to say against the Generals for making that decision. Surely you’re not stupid enough to try to claim that those Generals were following JAY’s orders…are you?
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
11:44 am
“because a pashtoons life has no value to me.”
FYI, I have provided a link for you regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder, laissez faire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
P.S. It’s not a “liberal” trait to respect the lives of others, it’s a “human” trait.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
11:46 am
“Dulce Bellum Inexpertis”
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:48 am
Bosch…while you’re at it, find something on self-loathing as well. As someone who “hates people” he surely needs help learning to love himself first. It seems clear that his hatred of people stems from a hatred of himself, driven outwards.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
11:49 am
Doggone,
I guess McChrystal and Petraeus are liberals. ?? — another edition of “The World in the Whacky Wingnut Mind”
~~~~~~~~~
Bruno,
“It’s not a “liberal” trait to respect the lives of others, it’s a “human” trait.”
Amen. I guess some here aren’t human so much. Are they any better than those they hate?
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
11:50 am
DoggoneGA
“Telling the truth is NEVER dishonorable.”
If you can point out ANY sort of factual account of the Japanese taking in and caring for wounded Americans on Iwo Jima, please post it. If you can’t post it, you are admitting that telling the truth was never the intention.
And telling the truth? When you are dead and gone, like all of us will be some day, is your story going to be that one thing you did that you regretted doing? That one thing that you feel the most guilt for in your life? It’s the truth, so that should be told and the rest of your life ignored, right?
It’s very easy to feign nobility and demand the truth always be told. Such a noble goal.
So Viet Nam is all about the Mi Lai Massacre.
The Gulf War is all about the “Highway To Hell”
Korea is all about the Wonsan Invasion
WWII is all about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Thanks for your input on this Memorial Day.
I choose to honor those brave men. I really couldn’t care less about what you choose to do.
Mick
May 31st, 2010
11:52 am
Jay – thanks for the story, and thanks to all the men and now women, in this country who have served and experienced the horrors of war. In the end, there are no real winners, only the loss of humanity and the failure of mankind.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
11:52 am
The counter-argument was offered last week by Ralph Peters, a former Army officer and now a columnist on military affairs in the New York Post:
“When enemy action kills our troops, it’s unfortunate. When our own moral fecklessness murders those in uniform, it’s unforgivable.
In Afghanistan, our leaders are complicit in the death of each soldier, Marine or Navy corpsman who falls because politically correct rules of engagement shield our enemies.
Mission-focused, but morally oblivious, Gen. Stan McChrystal conformed to the Obama Way of War by imposing rules of engagement that could have been concocted by Code Pink:
* Unless our troops in combat are absolutely certain that no civilians are present, they’re denied artillery or air support.
* If any civilians appear where we meet the Taliban, our troops are to “break contact” — to retreat…
We need to recognize that true morality lies in backing our troops, not in letting them die for whacko theories.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:52 am
“I guess McChrystal and Petraeus are liberals”
Yeah, I guess so…who knew?
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
11:57 am
“We need to recognize that true morality lies in backing our troops, not in letting them die for whacko theories.”
“Backing our troops” means not sending them on wars of choice against countries that are no threat to us. Backing them means sending them in with enough solidiers and equipment to FIGHT that war. Backing them means not diverting troops and supplies to ANOTHER war, against a country that was no threat to us. And winning a war…despite the opinion of someone who turns their self-hatred outward…does not ALWAYS mean winning at all costs. Ponder the “winning the battle, but losing the war” – declaring victory in a “war” that was ONLY A BATTLE, means you have lost not won.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
11:58 am
They appear to be, and they serve at the pleasure of Hugo Lula Hussein Soetoro, as all top Brass are utterly political .
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
12:03 pm
I agree there also, Bush followed a failed policy from 2005-thru the beginning surge on late 2007/2008. Bush was pretty liberal also. Thus the prosecutions of soldiers at abu ghraib for toying with a few haji’s, and the fact we have prosecuted soldiers for slapping haji’s or on some ahole reporters view of a streetbattle. Unless a soldier walks up and puts a gun to a haji’s head and pulls the trigger, I don’t see a problem. Liberals see problems if you hurt a haji’s feeling or make fun of their pedophile prophet.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:03 pm
“It’s the truth, so that should be told and the rest of your life ignored, right?”
bugatti–I believe the concept involved here is the difference between “the truth” and “the whole truth”.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
12:05 pm
You are a bunch of little sigmund frauds hha.. Self Hatred ..love your inner child? Hippie sh*t. I can love myself above all, and Hate others at the same time, it’s called compartmentalization and not valueing all life the same. It’s easy
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:06 pm
Here’s a little background music for laissez faire’s rants from Ronnie James Dio, who passed away a few weeks ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmSt1oEIshE
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:07 pm
“If you can point out ANY sort of factual account of the Japanese taking in and caring for wounded Americans on Iwo Jima, please post it. If you can’t post it, you are admitting that telling the truth was never the intention.”
I wouldn’t even try. Atrocities happen in wars. They happen on both sides. Noble things happen in wars. They happen on both sides. To try to whitewash one side as having committed NO atrocities is as much a lie as trying to paint the other side as NEVER doing anything noble. You want me to bring it down to specifics, when I was speaking in generalities.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:10 pm
“it’s called compartmentalization and not valueing all life the same”
Yes, well you DO realize that the end result of that sort of comparmentalization means that in order for YOU to feel completely safe you must eliminate everything you hate. And since you have confessed you hate people, that means you must eliminate ALL other people. Until you do, you will never feel safe. But I wouldn’t advise trying…those despised other people might turn out to hate YOU more than you hate US.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
12:13 pm
for Bruno
Live and let die…
when you got a job to do, you got to do it well, you got to give the other fella hellllllllll…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMw7×1XG_LM
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:15 pm
“you got to do it well”
Doing a job well is not the same thing as winning at all cost.
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
12:17 pm
DoggoneGA
You REALLY need to take a day or two away from posting here and pick up a history book and read about the Japanese’s policy toward prisoners. If you are speaking in generalities and you think that the Japanese and the Americans were equal in the way they treated their prisoners and the way the treated civilians, then your ignorance is far outreaching any good intentions that you might have.
TaxPayer
May 31st, 2010
12:20 pm
Sounds like laissez faire is managing to push some buttons today.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:21 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOyFE-1LAI0&feature=related
Come down with fire
Lift my spirit higher
Someone’s screaming my name
Come and make me holy again
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
12:21 pm
I worked all weekend and I am finally finished.
For everyone that has the intelligence to understand why our country is as great as it is, remember those who served and tell a soldier, a fireman or a cop thank you today.
God Bless America.
Off to the cook out.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:22 pm
“think that the Japanese and the Americans were equal in the way ”
And I never said anything like that. Why don’t you try discussing what *I* said, not what you hear in YOUR head.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
12:28 pm
I made my point, and I doubt todays sad excuse for america will ever embrace it, so I will just leave with a good memorial day sentiment from the last great American Military leader…
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men(and women) who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.
George S. Patton
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:29 pm
“You are a bunch of little sigmund frauds hha..”
Hey, take it up with Peter Gabriel, laissez faire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG81DZ4t3bE
Fear, Fear, she’s the mother of Violence,
Making me tense to watch the way she breed.
Fear, she’s the mother of Violence,
You know self-defense is all you need.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:31 pm
“I made my point”
Indeed you did…and I have no doubt you’ll never see that it wasn’t the point you THOUGHT you were making.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:37 pm
Sing it, Neil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3S7mlRYL-8
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
12:40 pm
Liberals always confuse fear and vengence. You really have been brainwashed by several generations of liberal fraud in the area of sociology and psychiatry. Maybe I am sociopathic in marxist psychiatric terms(the worst thing you can do to a collectivist is to not give a damn about the collective), I could care less because I don;t give a damn what others think, never have, never will.
You can enjoy destroying a rival without fearing the rival.
TaxPayer
May 31st, 2010
12:41 pm
Enjoy your afternoon, laissez faire.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:41 pm
Sing it, Ray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghz4_kikLkE
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
“Liberals always confuse fear and vengence”
And you are confusing power and strength.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:44 pm
This one is a repeat from Friday Night Music courtesy of Hillbilly Deluxe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nJTqpKlZ9U
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
12:46 pm
Why all this petty in fighting? This is Memorial Day after all. Johnny Finn has passed, but there are many veterans of World War II who are still living among us. I have relatives who fought in that war. I would never say that America has not had its moments of shame. I do not deny the Mi Lai and Wounded Knee tragedies but today is the day to remember the contributions of our veterans. We may not support certain wars, certain commander in chiefs, but let us at least not disparage the men and women who are sent to fight on our behalf.
I saw the American Airlines commercial last night that honors veterans of our latest wars in the middle east. I found it heartening to see that we do honor soldiers coming home these days (i hope that we do). I am a Viet Nam era, Air Force veteran. When I traveled in my dress blues, I often received nothing but dirty looks from the civilians in the airports.
Do not blame the individuals who are in the military now for the wars. They did not start these wars.
We are the unwanted, asked to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful An Anthem for the Viet Nam Era Veteran.
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
12:50 pm
“but let us at least not disparage the men and women who are sent to fight on our behalf”
You can rest easy…no one has done that.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:51 pm
“Why all this petty in fighting?”
C’mon, eyes, this wouldn’t be the JB blog without a little infighting. Only in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1iI-DaJNw
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
12:56 pm
“And walked off to look for America……”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAoArleLZEk&feature=related
Paulo977
May 31st, 2010
1:00 pm
” Heart , you were never hot
Nor large, nor ful llike hearts made great with shot;
………………….
Weep,you may weep for you may touch them not.” Wilfred Owen.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
1:04 pm
I do wish Jay had put us up another thread for the infighting. He’s got one waiting and I’m already laying bets. But this one, somehow, just doesn’t seem the one for infighting, even if those who died looking down might not be smiling that their sacrifices weren’t in vain…
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
1:06 pm
“After visiting a Denny’s in Virginia, Obama will abandon complex policies on emissions, clean coal and refocus on achievable goals like applying deodorant daily, learning what to say when you burp.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yiQXPOO1Yo
DoggoneGA
May 31st, 2010
1:09 pm
Now it’s time to indulge my latest hobby. I’m off to “chase” a coupld of waterfalls.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
1:09 pm
When a Life magazine correspondent pressed (Gen. Lucian) Truscott for details about his VI Corps objectives in southern France in 1944, Truscott pointed to a map and snapped. “You saw me move this pin, didn’t you? … Do you know what it means? … It means that by noon today 25 of my men will be dead.” Truscott then sat down and finished his breakfast.
Eulogizing U.S. dead at Anzio on Memorial Day 1945, Truscott did an about face to dignitaries and instead addressed thousands of GI graves. He promised that if he “ever ran into anybody, especially old men, who thought death on the battlefield was glorious, he would straighten them out.”
http://www2.wnct.com/entertainment/2010/may/29/bio-spotlights-us-general-who-won-ikes-confidence-ar-187982/
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
1:12 pm
For HD and josef:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGz_xSSgjY0
Fahgetaboutit!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
1:13 pm
Bruno
I seldom eat sausage; it’s too hard on my stomach. If I eat syrup, its white Karo, although I seldom eat that either. A pound of eggs is probably what I eat in a week. And I don’t even own a pair of sweat pants. So, everybody can stop worrying; the Republic is still safe.
Bruno
May 31st, 2010
1:18 pm
A special tribute to our humble host, Jay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-G2n91wKtY
P.S. to Bosch–The lady in the orange shorts has nothing on our gal, Sarah.
Union
May 31st, 2010
1:26 pm
Semper Fi
SOUTHERN ATL
May 31st, 2010
1:27 pm
Just a dream…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLntFKtR66g
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
1:30 pm
Semper Fi
And don’t forget the Sailors, Flyboys, and Dogfaces. Lots of them laying under Crosses and Stars of David, too.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
1:40 pm
“Because a Pushtoon’s life has no value to me…”
http://rickshawdiaries.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kareem.jpg
Outhouse GoKart
May 31st, 2010
1:52 pm
Lettuce remember those who have fallen for the sake of You, I and our selfishness while TN Gelding enjoys his German Potato Salad, Schnitzengoobers and German Chocolate cake.
Mick
May 31st, 2010
2:02 pm
ogk
Here, here I second that motion and salute (bailey’s)..
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
2:05 pm
When Whitney Houston could still sing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QmeEdFOSc
Outhouse GoKart
May 31st, 2010
2:32 pm
Speakin of “Crack is Whack”…too bad those Disraeli Commandos didnt raid the ship on which Cynthia McKinney was riding…Just imagine if they had and imagine the possibilities….
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
2:43 pm
ogk
Let’s not go there here. The Bruin will post a thread for this.
Morning Stars
May 31st, 2010
3:10 pm
HD – And don’t forget the Sailors, Flyboys, and Dogfaces. Lots of them laying under Crosses and Stars of David, too
Good point HB. We should remember all those who have fought and sacraficed for our country, from the Revolutionary War to some of the recent unnecessary wars such as the Iraq conflict. All wars have been initiated by the wealthy and more greedy. Enough is never enough. I be a’thinkin that’s what the Bible is referring to in the passage, “It is harder for a rich man to get to heaven, than for a camel…..” but I degress………….
To take up arms, or not to take up arms, depends on what we wish for ourselves and grands. The Revolutionary War, during which some of our OLD GRANDS fought for the independence of You and Me, should never be forgotten. Had our country not strived for Independence, we’d be bowing to the queen……
I’ll skip several skirmishes and go on the the Civil War, War of Northern Agression, or whatever we wish to call it. I’m sure most of us have Old Grands who were on both sides of this horrible conflict. Personally, I have researched and have found ancestors on both sides, and I’m sure both were of the assumption they were in God’s Will. (remember the movie God’s and Generals).
WWII – Would you prefer that your youngeons speak German? Allrightydin…..
My point is that all that have fought for our country, WWI, WWII, Korean conflict, Iraq Conflict…….should receive our respect and thanks for their service to our country. I was listening to a commentary on the N & S conflict (don’t remember dates or anything)…but someone said “Why? (N & S Soldiers). They are brothers. Of course they were, still are, always will be, except for a decided number of carpetbaggers. (ISH)
On another note: FOR HILLBILLY D: Have you read “A Separate Civil War” by Jonathan Dean Sarris?
Back later. Places to go…..barbeque to eat……
Normal
May 31st, 2010
3:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnm-4kSLKdI
NorthDeKalbVoter
May 31st, 2010
3:58 pm
Only the dead see an end to war. R.I.P Finn and the countless other great Americans like you.
Rightwing Troll
May 31st, 2010
4:30 pm
“Schnitzengoobers”… Easy baby, three’s my limit…
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
4:44 pm
Bruno
“It’s certainly not to make America a world leader in anything, anymore. But we hope to inspire all of America to band together and make our nation a little less of an embarrassing, disgusting sh*t hole.”
I’m not embarrassed about the country, but I am embarrassed that this would be posted on a blog that was written on Memorial day to honor the last Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient from the Pearl Harbor attack’s death, and on Memorial day to boot.
I thought I would drop by to see if the self loathing had stopped, but i think I’ll instead take a really hot shower and try to get rid of the stench of this blog.
Bosch
May 31st, 2010
4:45 pm
Bruno! How dare thee?!!?
TaxPayer
May 31st, 2010
4:50 pm
bugatti is a little steenker.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
5:01 pm
Morning Stars
Yes, I have read “A Separate Civil War” by Jonathan Dean Sarris. That’s for a discussion on another day, though. Today is for those who gave all they had to give.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
5:11 pm
Some Gave All – A Tribute to Our Fallen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OomdtAwAJCg&feature=related
Morning Star
May 31st, 2010
5:14 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
5:01 pm
Morning Star
Yes, I have read “A Separate Civil War” by Jonathan Dean Sarris. That’s for a discussion on another day, though. Today is for those who gave all they had to give.
I agree HB. This is
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 31st, 2010
5:31 pm
Well, us Patriots went to Cumming for the big sellabration and then stuffed our face with BBQ. Funny how the people that never served are always the ones that give the biggest speeches on Memorial Day. They would probly mess their pants if they ever had to fight for this country.
Anyhow, a good time was had by all and now I’m tuning into Fox News for some Fair and Balanced reporting on what’s been going on in the country. Have a good night everybody.
Morning Star
May 31st, 2010
5:35 pm
“Today is for those who gave all they had to give.”
Yep! My point exactly. 5:15pm post didn’t quite make it. There are “those who gave all they had to give”….in many capacities……… I’m outta here………….
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
6:11 pm
This would be the third paragraph of the story-
International condemnation was swift and harsh as Israel scrambled to explain how what was meant to be a simple takeover of a civilian vessel went so badly awry.
And this would be the second-
Bloodied passengers sprawled on the deck and troops dived into the sea to save themselves during several hours of hand-to-hand fighting that injured dozens of activists and six soldiers.
WTF do the liberals not understand here?
Or is it your ignorant blind hatred that clouds your freaking reasoning?
Anti Semite nazi wanna be freaks.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
6:12 pm
And obozo should shut his filthy pagan mouth.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
6:16 pm
IR/YW
This is not the time and place. The Bruin will provide the space this, rest assured. Right now, though, lay your rancor aside and think of all those who gave their lives so you (and I) can come in and sound off. Please.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
6:22 pm
Imagine 50 pages of this: “To prevent acts of terrorism on American soil, we must enlist all of our intelligence, law enforcement, and homeland security capabilities. We will continue to integrate and leverage state and major urban area fusion centres that have the capability to share classified information.”
The stooges at the obozo white house had to tell us this?
Or are they so happy with themselves for figuring out the obvious and just had to share it with us?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
6:26 pm
yosef- white house toady kookman will have an article first thing in the morning that condemns Israel for killing the savages that resisted them and injured six of their soldiers.
obozo might even fax it to him, who knows?
Why do you think I comment now?
JDW
May 31st, 2010
6:34 pm
It really does not matter if you agree or disagree with the political motives of the wars in our history. Those that fought and died did so protecting this country and those of us lucky enough to be here. Argue the politics later and honor those that sacrificed now.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
6:38 pm
JDW, Agreed.
stands for decibels
May 31st, 2010
6:40 pm
Had me some pork ribs, baked beans, green beans and pineapple.
Mmm mmm mmm.
Life is good.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
Just because….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPudiBR15mk
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
6:51 pm
IR/YW
And I’ll go there then. Not here. Not now.
Bud Wiser
May 31st, 2010
6:52 pm
I lost an uncle on Attu Island in Alaska from a Japanese sneak attack. He died before I was born and I never knew him, just the stories my Mother would tell about a man who was a loving son and brother, a hard working farmer with his father, and a skilled wood craftsman. I still have 2 double beds that are supported on the cherry wood frames he carved by hand, and are still as beautiful on the day he made them.
I also had an uncle that served in WWII and Korea, suffering debilitating injuries that eventually cost him his right leg years later. He was my friend for many years, and also a fellow golfer who taught me how to play golf. He died 10 years ago.
My father-in-law drove an LST on Normandy beach on D-Day, and he saw many horrors we could only imagine. It was something he never spoke to me, or even his wife about, but once. He passed away 4 years ago from the devastation of Alzheimer’s.
I served during Vietnam, although never in country, flying recon and support as part of a rescue squadron, but still lost 2 high school buddies there.
I take this day to remember the uncle I knew and the one I did not, as well as my father-in-law, and my friends, and salute all who have made the ultimate sacrifice in service to this wonderful country.
This is a day of remembrance.
TnGelding
May 31st, 2010
6:54 pm
jt
May 31st, 2010
8:56 am
Solemn, somber and reflective. Lord, have mercy on our souls!
A big salute to Harland Smith, Fayetteville, Tn. KIA, France, 1944. And a big hello to Harland, Jr.
Disgusted
May 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
I take this day to remember uncles who served in WWII. One was shot up in a tank in Tunisia, and after release from a military hospital following a year’s stay, hecarried shrapnel in his body till the day he died. Another served with the famous 77th in the Pacific, later even being honored as a special guest at Guam’s liberation day ceremonies. Still two others made the long slog from Normandy all the way into Germany. They were country boys all who knew nothing but the county in which they were born until they were called into service and transported in different directions around the world. There were hundreds of thousands like them. That’s what I remember on this day.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
Bud Wiser, I had a thought today (as many here have) about my relatives who served in WWII. Many did, few are still here today. But an odd thought popped into my head then. I thought of all the young men and women who died who never had a chance to have families. Maybe some of the boys who died then, had they lived, might have married my aunts and become my uncles (some who did survive, after all, did just that). How many boys died that have been forgotten? Then I remembered that my mother has kept an old cedar chest for many many years which contains, among other things, a box full of old, dog eared, yellowed letters from the boys overseas. They were the ones who wrote not so much because they could claim my mother to be was a girlfriend mind you, but because it calmed the soul to write back home to one who reminded them so much of how life was supposed to be, but was not. Some day, I tell myself, I will put my writing talents to use, and write their stories, because they deserve to be told.
TnGelding
May 31st, 2010
7:07 pm
Bud Wiser
May 31st, 2010
6:52 pm
Very profound. Thanks.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
7:09 pm
How exactly did we get ourselves in such a fix, engaged in never-ending wars that we cannot win and cannot afford? Is the ineptitude of our generals the problem? Or is it the folly of our elected rulers?
Or is it the liberals whining about us doing whatever it takes to win?
Just askin…
TnGelding
May 31st, 2010
7:09 pm
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
7:06 pm
Boys sacrificed to the war gods. May they be remembered and honored for all eternity.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
7:11 pm
Whiner, I am asking you to give it a rest on this day.
TnGelding
May 31st, 2010
7:12 pm
Yeah, just think what a paradise this would be without us libs.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
7:13 pm
Lest we forget….
“1 in 26 mariners serving aboard merchant ships in World WW II died in the line of duty, suffering a greater percentage of war-related deaths than all other U.S. services. Casualties were kept secret during the War to keep information about their success from the enemy and to attract and keep mariners at sea.”
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
7:16 pm
There is a piece of footage that has become stock footage from the Normandy landing. Anytime there is a program about D-Day, it will be shown at least once and sometimes 4 or 5 times.
Three or four soldiers are running towards the beach at the edge of the water. One runs on out of camera view. One is shot down in about knee deep water and appears to be killed instantly. A third takes a couple of steps on the sand and is hit and falls to his knees. He tries to get up and is either hit again or collapses from the first hit and doesn’t move anymore.
That image has always stuck in my mind. Who was he? Where was he from? What did he do before the war and what were his plans? That’s something I guess we’ll never know but it all ended in the blink of an eye for him and many more like him.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
7:29 pm
It was perhaps a fitting end to one of the worst weeks of Obama presidency, in which a Rasmussen one poll pegged his popularity at a new low of 42 percent. In an environment in which Americans are disillusioned and cynical about Washington and all it stands for, the Clinton-Sestak manoeuvre could be a political calamity for Obama.
Like I was sayin….
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
7:30 pm
Shave It- Rest this.
Bud Wiser
May 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
TnGelding, you are welcome. And to theeyeshaveit, you as well. I too have thought that very thing about my uncle lost in WWII, and one has to wonder what is lost in such a way of a future and lives that never will be. I wish I had those notes and letters you referenced to look back and try to formulate just what they all have gone through, and what may have been lost to humanity because of these sacrifices.
It makes today a very somber and special day indeed, and a day for such reflections.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
HillyDeluxe:
I have seen that a thousand times in my lifetime and have also wondered.
josef:
Which military occupation had the highest casualty rate in WWII ?
Ponder
May 31st, 2010
7:35 pm
“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” — John F. Kennedy
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
7:35 pm
Scout
Not sure…fill me in…
Scout
May 31st, 2010
7:39 pm
Bomber crews over Germany. Higher even than the Marines in the Pacific.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
7:39 pm
I honor our soldiers every day of the year, in many different ways, one of them being that I do not cheer on their enemies like you liberals do.
Israel is fighting for it’s survival against the same enemy that our soldiers fight, mindless savages in need of killing, savages that blow up women and children on purpose, and watch, tomorrow morning, after the Memorial Day grieving duty is safely behind him, kookman will denounce Israel.
Do not lecture me on my respect of the untold sacrifices made to keep us safe.
Instead, why don’t you liberals learn to give more than one day a year, just sayin….
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
7:41 pm
Scout
I was going to say tail-gunner…it seems I’ve heard that somewhere before…
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
7:45 pm
Today we are not black, white, brown, yellow or red, we are not male or female, old or young, we are not Christian, Jew, Muslim, believer or non believer; we are not straight or gay, Northern or Southern; we are not liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat or any of those other things that separate us one from the other on other days of the year. Today we are all Americans and we think in solemn and respectful terms of all those who gave their lives so that we might be able to stand and say, at least once a year, I am an American.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
7:45 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin… :
I wish we were half as good at securing our borders as Israel is …………..
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
7:46 pm
It is getting too somber in here. Let’s lighten it up a bit with this. Music and dance like this make me wish I had been born in the “Greatest Generation”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wiVkdVPGoY
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
7:47 pm
josef, Bravo!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
7:48 pm
Scout
A good friend of mine’s Dad was a waist gunner on a B-17. He made it home with shrapnel wounds. Can’t remember how many missions he was on but it was less than half of the standard 25.
And I read somewhere that the life expectancy of a British sapper in London during the Blitz was something like 21 days.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
7:52 pm
eyes,
and going there, another great American who died in the service of his country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3K5uB-wMA&feature=related
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
7:53 pm
“Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.” –General George S. Patton, Jr.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
7:56 pm
“Of course, our men are willing to die, but that is not enough. We must be eager to kill, to inflict on the enemy, the hated enemy, all possible wounds, death and destruction. If we die killing, well and good. But, if we fight hard enough, viciously enough, we will kill again. We will live to return to our families as conquering heroes.” –General George S. Patton, Jr.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
7:57 pm
A country song from the ’40’s. I’ve never heard a sadder song but it tells the story of the price that’s been paid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaRxSN4V2M
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
7:58 pm
“It took me a long time to reallize just how much a student of medieval history could gain from observing the Arab.”–General George S. Patton, Jr.
replace every Patreaus and Mcchrystal with a patton, and the world would be so god damn much better off
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
8:02 pm
laissez faire, What form of blogger makes such comments on a day on which we should be remembering those who served, those who sacrificed, those who died. Can you not take yoru hands off of politics for a day?
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
8:06 pm
Bringing it up to date:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1246215/if_i_die_before_you_wake_soldiers_song/
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
8:08 pm
In my collection of books I have a first edition, first printing of “Le Petit Prince.” It was published in the United States during the occupation of France when the author, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry was a fighter pilot in the Free French forces (he died in service). It was given to me by a friend of my mother’s. It is not the book itself which is so valuable to me. It is the inscription. The lady who gave him the book worked as an editor of the company which published it. She gave it to him as he was leaving to serve as a fighter pilot in the European theatre.
It reads,
“Qui sait où nous serons en Diciembre? Alors–joyeux noël!”
–Ess
Le vingt Juillet, 1943
It reads–”who knows where we will be in December. So, Merry Christmas!
Ess,
July 20, 1943
T.C. made it home. Many of his comrades did not.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
8:11 pm
I have been , all Day. I can not stand those who put the lives of the enemy on par with our soldiers as Bookman and McChrystal do. No I take that back..they put the lives of the enemy higher than our soldiers. So every quote I gave has a point about the current disregard Hussein Soetoro and his brass have for the common soldier..they care more about world opinion pages and their standing at some Hague luncheon.
Del
May 31st, 2010
8:13 pm
theeyeshaveit@8:06pm
The best I’ve seen and heard…says it all.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
8:13 pm
laissez
in case you missed it earlier
http://rickshawdiaries.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/kareem.jpg
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
8:15 pm
My Daddy had a cousin who was 82nd Airborne. Went into Normandy at midnight before the landing and was in the Bulge in a village very near Bastogne.
He never mentioned it but once or twice that I remember but he told me a very interesting story. His view was very different than Patton’s. He said for several days his unit was almost surrounded (not quite as bad as Bastogne) and ran out of food and almost out of ammo. He said after they were finally broken out, that he was walking alone to the rear. He was just a Private and he said he encountered a 90 day wonder Lieutenant and a group of his men. He said it was pretty dark so everything was sort of shadowy. When the Lt. asked him where he wanted him to take the men (the Lt. must have thought he was an officer in the dark), he said, “I don’t care where you take them”. He said the Lt. puffed up and said. “I need to get up there; I’ve got some blood thirsty boys here”. He said he just looked at the Lt. and said, “Well, let ‘em stay up there a couple of days and then tell me how damn blood thirsty they are”.
The soldier often sees things from a different perspective than the General.
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
8:20 pm
Josef Nix, I saw it before and He was not a pashtoon..He was an American..I have to ask Teddy Roosevelt to explain further , he is more eloquent than I.
“We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an
American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.(and it truly is)
But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.”
I respect and admire spc Kahn, he had but one loyalty, to the USA(and that does not mean to that ass some people call a president..but the USA as an Idea). Pashtoons are loyal only to their regional tribal hierarchy and their pedephile misogynist prophet.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
8:23 pm
josef, now you have given me my opening for this story. As you may know, my wife is from Japan. One evening some years ago, she was telling me of one story (from among an anthology of stories) that had touched her so deeply. I will paraphrase what she told me.
“Towards the end of the war, Japan did not have many pilots, planes, or even fuel left for the planes. A small squadron of pilots were ordered to go out over the Pacific on a final mission. These pilots were not kamikaze pilots. But they had only enough fuel to reach their targets, not enough to get back to the base. Two fighter planes took to the skies that day. But before they turned to the ocean, one pilot asked his commander if they could fly over a certain neighborhood. The commander understood and granted permission. They flew over a home in a certain neighborhood, at a certain time, and the junior pilot, flying low, waved at a young woman who was standing in front of the home. She waved back then – for the last time. Those planes slowly disappeared over the Pacific and flew for the last time.
She finished the story with tears in her eyes.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
8:26 pm
Unmentionable’s grandfather was at D-Day and then took part in the liberation of the camps. A stoic old gentleman of the cigar store variety, he never spoke to any of his family of his experiences. He broke that silence when he met me and, knowing my interest in Shoah studies, spoke to me at length about what he had witnessed. He never spoke of it again. It is one of my greatest honors.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
8:29 pm
laissez faire:
“A bad plan executed wit extreme violence is better than no plan at all.” Patton
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
8:35 pm
laissez
We’ll go there later. Not here. Not now.
eyes…
Thanks for the story. It lends perspective.
Southern Comfort
May 31st, 2010
8:35 pm
Bosch
Just got home, and that’s intergalactic OMFG territory. To think this kind of conversation is going on while we have people giving their lives for this country is unbelievable.
Scout, Del, eyes, AmV, and anyone else who served in uniform, G*d bless you all!! I had two uncles I know of first hand who served in combat. One was a Marine and survived Iwo Jima, and the other was a Marine and survived Vietnam. My family has served in every branch with nothing but pride an honor, and it’s the memory of those and others that should be cherished and honored today.
Leave the politics alone for a few hours. Visit a veteran somewhere. Just do something good other than this frikkin’ b*tchin about politics. That crap will be here tomorrow and the day after.
Y’all have a good day. I refuse to sully the memory of those who gave all so I could be who I am.
Later..
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
8:37 pm
The soldier often sees things from a different perspective than the General…
No doubt..I wonder how the soldiers on the ground feel about Obama /Mcchrystal rules of engagement..
1. prevent troops from shooting at theTaliban, if there is a risk of civilian casualties. The tactical directive highlights that this is the case even if it means to allow the enemy to escape.
2.If the taliban retreat into a mosque, you can;t follow them or fire into the mosque except in ’self defense’ (p.s..mohammed was a pedophile)
3. Air power including close air support will be based more on potential impact to local populations than to the mission necessity of force protection.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
8:38 pm
SoCo, thank you for your thoughts.
Normal
May 31st, 2010
8:39 pm
Just a few thoughts…
I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.”
– Mohandas K. Gandhi
“Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind…War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today.”
– John F. Kennedy
“War is as outmoded as cannibalism, chattel slavery, blood-feuds, and dueling, an insult to God and humanity…a daily crucifixion of Christ.”
“There was never a good war or a bad peace.” Benjamin Franklin
“War would end if the dead could return.” Stanley Baldwin
“In peace sons bury fathers, but war violates the order of nature, and fathers bury sons.” – Herodotus
“If the human race wishes to have a prolonged and indefinite period of material prosperity, they have only got to behave in a peaceful and helpful way toward one another.”
– Winston Churchill
“I prefer the most unfair peace to the most righteous war.”
– Cicero.
“War is cruelty and you cannot refine it.”
“Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime”
Ernest Hemingway
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
8:44 pm
Okay, a lighter moment in memory of Uncle John whose nooky was interrupted…
I lie. Unmentionable just reminded me his grandfather did tell one story…during the liberation of Belgium his unit was pinned down in the cellar of a winery! Said that when they were relieved, there was hardly a bottle left to share!
Mick
May 31st, 2010
8:51 pm
Normal – wise words, indeed.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
8:56 pm
josef, those lighter moments often saved our sanity during four years in the Air Force. I went into the Air Force in 1966 on the so called buddy system. It meant that my best buddy Ron and I could be in the same flight, same barracks and, of course, go through basic training together. Ron, by the way, was born in Scotland, but found his draft notice one day in the mail box and talked me into enlisting with him. Mail call was the most eventful time of the time for Ron. If he got a letter from his girlfriend back home, that was a good day. If not, he fell into a funk. Whenever he heard his name called, his voice rose about two octaves in pitch as he said, “Yes, sir!”. It made my day.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
9:00 pm
eyes
My brother went in under the buddy system. He came home. His buddy did not.
Southern Comfort
May 31st, 2010
9:00 pm
Oops…
Forgot about my buddy Normal. Bless you too, my brother.
eyes
No problem. I’ve seen what it takes to serve the country as well as what it does to the family left behind. There’s nothing to joke about with that. Being the baby of the family, my mom was not having me play any part of military service. She never said I couldn’t serve the country though, so I’m doing my duty to country now. It’s just not military duty.
Normal
May 31st, 2010
9:05 pm
Thanks, SoCo…Coming from you makes it special.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
9:11 pm
Pacifists will get everyone killed, just sayin…
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
9:13 pm
I have to check out of town now, but I leave you with this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7462248898182965788#docid=-2013417892471646973
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
9:13 pm
Scout, I love and respect recon but I found a quote I thought you might take in the spirit intended …
“Just drive down that road until you get blown up.” Gen George S. Patton, Jr.. Instructions to reconnaissance troops
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
9:15 pm
And for Andy, there is this.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7462248898182965788#docid=2406190011478275630
godless heathen
May 31st, 2010
9:15 pm
I wrote this a few years ago:
I didn’t know Allan Lee Schmidt. I don’t know if he went by Allan or by Lee. I will probably never know anyone that knew Allan. He died when I was only 13 years old, on November 6, 1968. That was a Wednesday, three weeks and a day before Thanksgiving. On that day I would have been “coming of age” in Mrs. Langford’s eighth grade class.
There were 7 or 8 of us in Mrs. Langford’s 8th grade class, and probably 8 or 9 other kids in her 7th grade class that shared our classroom at ****** Elementary School in *******, Georgia. As an 8th grader, the top grade in our school, I was quite full of myself, and oblivious to death and war outside of the history books.
I recall studying arithmetic, geography, history, and social studies in those days, and I recall us receiving a newsletter every week or two called “Current Events”. I recall The Vietnam War as the lead story on the NBC News that religiously aired in our home at 7PM Eastern every night, but Vietnam was geographically a half a world away from ********, Georgia and a couple of universes away from the life of a pubescent boy who had just graduated from playing Army with sticks in the playground, imitating the TV show Combat. At that time, my female classmates were much more enthralling than our country’s battle against the spread of world communism.
So why tonight am I writing about Allan Lee Schmidt? I was Internet surfing and found a web site that listed the names on The Vietnam Memorial (The Wall) in D.C. I just clicked on a name and read a very brief, government-issue record of his life and service. (Last name: SCHMIDT, First name: ALLAN LEE)
Allan Lee (I bet his mother called him Allan Lee from time to time.) lived in Tipton, Iowa, born August 12, 1948, seven years before I was born, and one day short of four years before my older brother entered the world. (Home of Record (official): TIPTON, State (official): IA, Date of Birth: THURSDAY, AUGUST 12, 1948, Sex:MALE, Race: CAUCASION, Marital Status: SINGLE)
I looked up Tipton, IA on the MapQuest Internet site. Tipton is located at the intersection of the dead north-south running IA Route 38 and the dead east-west running IA Route 130, about halfway between Iowa City and Moline, what we know today as “fly-over country”. How strange that term would sound to the rising man of 20 who got off a plane in South Vietnam on October 9, 1968.
I can speculate that Allan grew up on a corn farm near Tipton, his father a hardworking WWII veteran, but I don’t really know. For all I know his father could have been the town drunk and Allan got himself drafted as an alternative to a life of crime – but I doubt it.
Allan’s official record lists his “Component” as Selective Service. I think that means that he was chosen by the not-so-selective, Selective Service. In other words, he got drafted. He could have avoided this honor, as many did, but maybe an “honorable” method of escaping The Draft (such as College) was not available. Possibly Allan welcomed this opportunity to get out of Tipton and to see the world. (Component: SELECTIVE SERVICE, Pay grade: E3, MOS (Military Occupational Specialty code): 11B10, Major Organization: 1st CAVALRY DIV))
While he traveled farther from his home than I ever have or ever will, Allan didn’t get to see much of the world. His “tour” of Vietnam was brief. (Start of tour: WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 9, 1968). By Wednesday, November 6th, 1968, Allan was dead. (Date of Casualty: WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 6th, 1968 Casualty type: (A2) HOSTILE, DIED OF WOUNDS. Reason: GUN, SMALL ARMS FIRE (GROUND CASUALTY)).
Twenty eight days in country. Nine months short of his 21st birthday.
Allan made the ultimate sacrifice for his country. By some rationalization he must have made the life of that boy in Mrs. Langford’s 8th grade class better. Maybe the best thing Allan did for me was that by reading stark words on a computer monitor years later, I realize how fortunate I have been.
Thank you Allan Lee Schmidt. I apologize for not thinking about you in 1968, but I thought about you a lot tonight.
— General / Personal —
Last name: SCHMIDT
First name: ALLAN LEE
Home of Record (official): TIPTON
State (official): IA
Date of Birth: Thursday, August 12, 1948
Sex: Male
Race: Caucasian
Marital Status: Single
— Military —
Branch: Army
Rank: PFC
Serial Number: 54931254
Component: Selective Service
Pay grade: E3
MOS (Military Occupational Specialty code): 11B10
Major Organization: 1st Cavalry Div
— Action —
Start of Tour: Wednesday, October 9, 1968
Date of Casualty: Wednesday, November 6, 1968
Age at time of loss: 20
Casualty type: (A2) Hostile, died of wounds
Reason: Gun, small arms fire (Ground casualty)
Country: South VietNam
Province: Tay Ninh
The Wall: Panel 39W – Row 029
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 31st, 2010
9:17 pm
ELWOOD, Illinois (Reuters) – President Barack Obama’s Memorial Day observance was stopped in its tracks on Monday by a torrential downpour accompanied by bolts of lightning and booming thunder.
God sending a message to our spineless coward in chief, just prayin….
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
9:35 pm
I love the weather symbolism…obama(as all his speeches are self serving and these are his issues) “on this memorial day uh uh as Bush and cheney continue to cause oil to spill uh uh all over then gulf of the greatest nation in the world, mexico,, I uh uh uh honor uh uh the undocumented transgendered bi racial uh uh americans that have always formed the core of the us military..”.BOOM
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
9:43 pm
I wonder if Democrat liar Richard(we shall call him dick for obvious reasons) Blumenthal tried to have a photo op at the vietnam memorial today.
Jay
May 31st, 2010
10:05 pm
laissez faire writes:
No doubt..I wonder how the soldiers on the ground feel about Obama /Mcchrystal rules of engagement..
1. prevent troops from shooting at theTaliban, if there is a risk of civilian casualties. The tactical directive highlights that this is the case even if it means to allow the enemy to escape.
2.If the taliban retreat into a mosque, you can;t follow them or fire into the mosque except in ’self defense’ (p.s..mohammed was a pedophile)
3. Air power including close air support will be based more on potential impact to local populations than to the mission necessity of force protection.
Here’s a hard truth, l..f.., If your goal is force protection, then we need to bring all our troops home to the United States and withdraw from the fight. If we do that, they will be protected. If that is your main goal, then we shouldn’t be there at all.
But if you believe their commitment is worthwhile, then they have to expose their lives and limbs to risk. It’s the same tradeoff that war has always required. Did Robert E. Lee not care about the thousands of men he ordered into the cannons in what came to be known as Pickett’s Charge? Yes, he did, but for better or worse he believed the sacrifice was justified by the cause.
What’s happening in Afghanistan is much the same, although on a much smaller scale. Americans in uniform are being asked to risk their lives in hopes that it helps win a war. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be. It’s just that the tactical objective they seek now is not a hill or ridge, but human support. Because in this kind of war, winning and holding human support is far more important than willing or holding a piece of real estate.
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
10:23 pm
eyes
Thanks for the Brokow…watched it all…
g*dless–
Thanks to you as well…this, too, lends perspective…
It’s coming that time to go to bed and catch a little tee-vee time in peace and quiet, next to the one I’ve spent my life with, in a comfortable home, doing the work I love, stuffed to suffering with good food, a bit tipsy from a bottle of the good stuff for the day of memory, weekend watching the grandboys tearing the house to shreds, a call from our boy in the service, no politics and petty bickering for a day, good vibes from people here that I know I’ll be tangling with come tomorrow a.m., bills to pay and squabbles to be had here at home over how much was spent on what, plans to make for at least a short vacation of some sorts, the wreckage of a school year here in the home office to put to order, a ton of work for the other screen tomorrow, a b*tching editor, yard needs mowing, hedges need trimming, dirty laundry is piled up… life is good!
Thank you to all those who sacrificed so much to make it so. G’night and sleep in peace knowing that at least from one little corner of America. we’re thinking of you…
josef nix
May 31st, 2010
10:26 pm
And just as I posted that, in came Jay speaking well of Robert E. Lee. We can lay down to divisions at least this once a year and honor those who, right or wrong, agreed or disagreed, served their people. Thanks, Jay. You’re a mensch and a man of honor.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
10:33 pm
laissez faire:
Sounds just like Patton ………..
Jay:
Both Generals Stuart and Longstreet failed Lee during Pickets charge at Gettysberg. Lee was not counting on Picket’s charge alone ………. that was almost a diversion. Longstreet “dilly dallyed” and didn’t breakthough or pin down the Union left and Stuart let Custer with a much smaller calvary force keep him from getting in the Union rear and coming up behind Cemetary Ridge just as Picket was getting there. Had even one of those other two events occurred, history would have been a lot different as Lee would have held Cemetary Ridge and the Union Army would in all likelyhood retreated to Washington with the Confederate Army in hot pursuit.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 31st, 2010
10:58 pm
Scout
I would tend to disagree about Gettysburg. In my opinion, the only chance “Pickett’s Charge” had of succeeding was if the artillery before the charge had been effective. For whatever reason, some said faulty fuses in the ammo, the vast majority of the artillery overshot the Union line and had little effect in softening them up. So they were charging into an entrenched position over open ground.
It was a long shot from the beginning and everything had to go perfectly for it to work. Communication was a much bigger problem then than now. It was very difficult to co-ordinate attacks as precisely as it is now.
I think the decisive point in the battle was the first day when Union General John Buford seized the high ground.
That’s my opinion, of course there are many others.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
11:12 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe :
I hear you but simultaneous with Pickets Charge, Gen. Stuart and 4,000 cavalry were supposed to have become up from behind cemetary ridge creatomg havoc with not only Union reiforcements and artillery resupply trying to make it up to the ridge but they were supposed to have also taken out what was left of the Union artillery still there. It is also estimated that because that didn’t happen (he was stopped by Custer with a much smaller cavalry force) and the Union artillery on Cemetary Ridge was still potent, that approximately 2/3 of the Confederate infantry “may” have hunkered down at the fence at the Emmitsville road and not particiapted in the final charge. Those two combined events (the Confederate calvary not showing up and “all” of the Confederate infantry not participating in the final charge) kept the Confederates from taking the ridge and carrying the day. In addition, you had Longstreet not preventing Union troops from reinforcing Cemetary Ridge by holding them on their left.
Scout
May 31st, 2010
11:22 pm
“OFF TOPIC #2″
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNUc8nuo7HI
Shame on you if you don’t want it all ………………………
bugatti
May 31st, 2010
11:52 pm
OK. Then it’s decided: War is bad.
I would have never thought of that one.
TnGelding
June 1st, 2010
12:24 am
laissez faire
May 31st, 2010
7:56 pm
The hated enemy? And whom might that be? I have seen the enemy…
TnGelding
June 1st, 2010
5:40 am
Love your enemies:
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sermon/sermon_19.htm
Rightwing Troll
June 1st, 2010
5:52 am
How nice, Andy spent his day here on the libural blog fighting #$@%^ libs…
Or he got plastered on PBR and let his wittle fingers do his talking, or barking, for him…
The porch dog won’t be around for a while, he’s gonna need to sleep that one off…
Saul Good
June 1st, 2010
6:33 am
Jay said:
“What’s happening in Afghanistan is much the same, although on a much smaller scale. Americans in uniform are being asked to risk their lives in hopes that it helps win a war. Same as it ever was, same as it ever will be. It’s just that the tactical objective they seek now is not a hill or ridge, but human support. Because in this kind of war, winning and holding human support is far more important than willing or holding a piece of real estate.”
Which is why you can’t win the “War On Terror” using conventional military tactics and boots on the ground. Have we created less terrorists by being there, or more to avenge their land and their friends/relatives killed, wounded, or captured and held. The truth is that we can be there for 20 more years, even capture and take over more territory… but the very second we pull out, it’s going to go right back to the kind of place it has been for a long long time now. You can’t “win” a war and make someone give up their beliefs just by sticking a gun in their face or dropping a bomb on their house. Most of all when they believe you to be an “invader” anyway. I really don’t know HOW we “convert” them and change their minds (or if it can be done). I mean in we’re just as likely to change their minds and beliefs as they are to changing our own troops and citizens into supporting the Taliban. It’s just not going to happen. Just look at this blog here. How many republicans or libs have converted and switched sides just because of the ongoing debates? Maybe one or two (but probably none). So how do we get those who believe in something “different” to change their very core beliefs? I just don’t feel that bombs and bullets are the answer…nor will they ever be in this kind of war. Just look at the fact that we have at least a $25 million dollar bounty on the head of Osama… in a region where people still trade goats as currency… how many have offered to turn him in after almost 9 years?
and finally (on topic)…
To all those that served and continue to serve. Thank you.
laissez faire
June 1st, 2010
7:18 am
WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida announced Monday that its No. 3 official, Mustafa al-Yazid, had been killed along with members of his family — perhaps one of the most severe blows to the terror movement since the U.S. campaign against al-Qaida began. A U.S. official said al-Yazid was believed to have died in a U.S. missile strike.
WTG..I hope it got all of his family, we don’t want him have a little Jr left around we will have to kill later , according to all the posts above.
And WTG Israel….You waxed 9 in self defense ..Anyone seen Cynthia Mckinney this AM? HopeHope
stands for decibels
June 1st, 2010
7:34 am
Heading upstairs, but I’ll leave this Godforsaken thread with this Deep Thought:
“People don’t get many vacation days in the greatest country on Earth, and sitting around pretending to be sad or watching Spielberg war porn doesn’t really honor those who served either.”