‘Top kill’ fails: BP abandons effort
I don’t know what to say about this. So I’ll let the Washington Post do it:
BP’s three-day effort to throttle the leaking gulf oil well with multiple blasts of heavy mud has failed. The attempted top kill of the well was abandoned late Saturday afternoon, leaving the huge Macondo field deep beneath the sea floor once again free to pump more than half a million gallons of crude a day into the gulf.
“I can say we tried. But what I can also say is this scares everybody, the fact that we can’t make this well stop flowing or haven’t succeeded in that so far,” BP chief operating officer Doug Suttles said in a late-day press conference.
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369 comments Add your comment
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
8:05 pm
“Now BP must fall back on a containment strategy in the near term, hoping to capture as much oil as possible.”
What exactly was wrong with using the “containment strategy” in an all out effort from day one of this disaster?
All culpable parties concerned, which especially includes our “Federal Government” since it is in the business of protecting America and its resources, owes America, even more so the people of Louisiana, an answer to this question?
N-GA
May 29th, 2010
8:10 pm
The bottom line is this: If the offshore drilling rig were a nuclear power plant, they would have a fail-safe disaster plan in place….fully tested.
When we allow the use of radically new technology (deep-water drilling), we need to clearly understand the consequences of failure.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
8:22 pm
When we have regulators who don’t regulate, what possible clear understanding can exist: See no evil speak of no evil and stop no evil?
A fail-safe disaster plan might be asking too much, however, an immediate response plan of containment is the very least that should be expected when the consequences of failure occurs.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
8:24 pm
“they would have a fail-safe disaster plan in place….fully tested”
Like the one they had at Three Mile Island maybe?
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
8:28 pm
“however, an immediate response plan of containment is the very least that should be expected when the consequences of failure occurs.”
The problem is, and has been, that they HAD such a plan…the blow-out preventer. And it failed, and the reasons are reprehensible. What IDIOT ordered that one of the rams be removed and replaced with testing equipment? Why was a battery allowed to go dead? That’s where MY concern has always been focused. That blow-out preventer would have stopped the well if it was in PROPER working condition.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
8:35 pm
Like the one they had at Three Mile Island maybe?
Like maybe better than the one they had?
Still with that said, there is absolutely no excuse to delay containment another hour.
The President clearly has no other choice than to issue the orders to get every boat and ship available into that area to skim, recover and prevent this oil from spreading or anymore of it from reaching the gulf shores.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
8:42 pm
The problem is, and has been, that they HAD such a plan…the blow-out preventer. And it failed, and the reasons are reprehensible. What IDIOT ordered that one of the rams be removed and replaced with testing equipment? Why was a battery allowed to go dead? That’s where MY concern has always been focused. That blow-out preventer would have stopped the well if it was in PROPER working condition.
Answer to those question and more are probably best answered by those in the Minerals Management Office and the Congress that has oversight of them. Any reasonable mind should not expect the oil industry to do all the right things. The government on the other hand has no other job to do than all of the right things.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
8:43 pm
“The President clearly has no other choice than to issue the orders ”
It doesn’t matter how many orders he issues…it’s not going to be stoppable. Not all of the oil is floating on the surface, so skimming and booms aren’t going to stop it. In the report I heard yesterday, they think it’s the chemical dispersants they’ve been using that are keeping huge “plumes” of oil under the surface. Until, or unless, those plumes come to the surface…they can’t be stopped from moving around the gulf.
Del
May 29th, 2010
8:43 pm
Don’t know where the best minds are but it’s looking more and more like divine intervention is all we might have left.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
8:47 pm
“Answer to those question and more are probably best answered by those in the Minerals Management Office and the Congress that has oversight of them.”
I don’t see it that way. If the MMS and Congress had known, they could have stopped it. The only people who KNOW the answer are the people who made the changes, and in particular, those who gave the orders.
“Any reasonable mind should not expect the oil industry to do all the right things. The government on the other hand has no other job to do than all of the right things”
Which brings the conversation RIGHT up to the question: who does the government REALLY “work” for? The people, as embodied in the Constitution? Or the highest bidder? I know what *I* think is the answer…and it’s not a pretty one.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
8:56 pm
I don’t see it that way. If the MMS and Congress had known, they could have stopped it. The only people who KNOW the answer are the people who made the changes, and in particular, those who gave the orders.
You might want to see things differently on this and accept the ugly answer you have. BTW, it is very, very doubtful there was any “IF” MMS and Congress had known. Especially those in MMS as a recently made known report indicates.
I’m telling you now, we must force a “house cleaning” upon these government agencies and hold Congress accountable.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
9:12 pm
Gifts and gratuities
See also: Department of the Interior Controversies
In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS employees had taken drugs and had sex with energy company representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays amid “a culture of ethical failure”, according to the investigation.[23] The New York Times’s summary states the investigation revealed “a dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere for much of the Bush administration’s watch.”[24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31]
A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.[32] Staffers also used government computers to view pornography.[33] In 2009 the regional supervisor of the Gulf region for MMS pled guilty and was sentenced to a year’s probation in federal court for lying about receiving gifts from an offshore drilling contractor. “This deeply disturbing report is further evidence of the cozy relationship between MMS and the oil and gas industry,” Salazar said.[34][35]….
Role in 2010 BP Oil Spill
Among MMS’s regulatory decisions contributing to the 2010 BP oil spill:
* MMS’s 2009 decision that acoustically-controled shut-off valve (BOP) would not be required as a last resort against underwater spills at the site.[citation needed]
* MMS’s failure to suggest other “fail-safe” mechanisms after a 2004 report raised questions about the reliability of the electrical remote-control devices.
* Prior to Director Birnbaum’s appointment, MMS granted a categorical exclusion waiver on April 6, 2009 to BP exempting it from National Environmental Policy Act’s requirements including a detailed environmental analysis, concluding the spill risk in that part of the Gulf was “minimal or nonexistent.” Such NEPA waivers have become routine at MMS, and the Interior department approves 250 to 400 per year for Gulf of Mexico projects.[45][46]
* MMS gave permission to BP and dozens of other oil companies to drill in the Gulf of Mexico without first getting required permits from another agency (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA) that assesses threats to endangered species — and despite strong warnings from NOAA about the impact the drilling was likely to have on the gulf. Those approvals, federal records show, include one for the well drilled by the Deepwater Horizon rig, which exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers and resulting in thousands of barrels of oil spilling into the gulf each day.[47]
* MMS routinely overruled its staff biologists and engineers who raised concerns about the safety and the environmental impact of drilling proposals in the Gulf and in Alaska.[47]
Since 20 April 2010, when an explosion on the Deepwater Horizon rig killed 11 workers, 27 new offshore drilling projects have been approved by MMS. All but one project was granted similar exemptions from environmental review as BP. Two were submitted by the UK firm, and made the same claims about oil-rig safety and the implausibility of a spill damaging the environment.[48]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerals_Management_Service
Scout
May 29th, 2010
9:23 pm
I’m dead serious here. Wouldn’t a small tactical nuke shut it down (turn all the sand to glass, etc. and seal it off)? I think the Russians had to do it. At some point it become the lesser of two evils.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
9:28 pm
“Wouldn’t a small tactical nuke shut it down (turn all the sand to glass, etc. and seal it off)? ”
It’s probably going to come to that, but “small” isn’t going to do it. I’ve posted this before: the Russians have used that technique at least 4 times on gas wells and it took bombs TWICE the size of the one used on Hiroshima. Plus, it’s going to take time…they have to drill down close to the existing well in order to set it off underground. An above-ground blast won’t do it. Plus, just like everything about this disaster, it’s never been done in such deep water.
Southern Comfort
May 29th, 2010
9:28 pm
Wouldn’t a small tactical nuke shut it down (turn all the sand to glass, etc. and seal it off)?
I don’t know if it necessarily has to be a nuke or not. Many well fires have been put out by explosions. That’s due to cutting off the oxygen supply to the fire. I don’t know how an underwater explosion would do. It could shift enough land to stop the flow, or it could open up a vent and increase the outflow.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
9:34 pm
SoCo…the kind of blast you are talking about doesn’t stop the well, it ONLY puts out the fire.
Southern Comfort
May 29th, 2010
9:37 pm
I know.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
9:38 pm
Despite BP’s and the government’s claims of a massive defense effort — “the battle offshore, we’re winning that battle,” Suttles said Friday — far more resources will be required to deal with the coming slick, Overton said.
“We’ve got to get more vessels. We don’t need 1,300, we need 10,000,” Overton said. “Now’s the time to stop being optimistic and get the assets out there.” …
Taking perhaps the starkest view of the current state of affairs is Matthew R. Simmons, founder of a Houston investment banking firm specializing in the energy industry.
“You have to hire as many super tankers as you can find and pump as much of it into them before hurricane season. Once the hurricane’s come, the game is over,” Simmons said. “You can take a big tar mop and paint the Gulf Coast black.” …
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/29/AR2010052900561_2.html?hpid=topnews&sub=AR&sid=ST2010052903349
Trusslady
May 29th, 2010
9:41 pm
I’m sorry – you people want the government to do something? You mean that big, bad government that interferes with “capitalism”, by over regulating, because you know, business will regulate itself? Oh, and you don’t want the big, bad government to punish BP, and taxpayers should be paying to handle this, because if the big, bad government had “regulated” like it is supposed to before “government is the problem” philosphy took over? What, the “government” shouldn’t mandate or regulate that we reduce our dependence on oil, because we’re American’s and “drill baby drill” is all we need?
Yep, I hear you.
Scout
May 29th, 2010
9:48 pm
Doggone/GA:
Well, do you think they should be getting that ready just in case ?
godless heathen
May 29th, 2010
9:48 pm
Nuke it!
Well since the Federal Government is in charge, any failure is now theirs. Obama was betting on the Top Kill working. He started claiming to be in charge about the time the Top Kill proceedure was begun. I bet when he gets off vacation next Tuesday, he won’t be so anxious to claim he is charge.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
9:50 pm
“Well, do you think they should be getting that ready just in case ?”
Yes, I do. I think how fast they can get the drilling done is going to be the big question. I don’t know enough about the procedure to know if the relief well is close enough to be used. Frankly, if I was President I’d be on the phone to the Russians right now.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
9:52 pm
Trusslady…and don’t forget, that’s the same government that “can’t do anything right”
Southern Comfort
May 29th, 2010
9:55 pm
It’s also the same government that’s of the people, for the people, and by the people.
DoggoneGA
May 29th, 2010
9:57 pm
SoCo…at this point I’m discouraged enough to say “don’t hold your breath on that one”
godless heathen
May 29th, 2010
10:01 pm
I’m a conservative and I don’t want the frigging Federal government to do a damn thing but stay out of the way and provide factual information to the citizens. For example, tell the peeps that the dispersants being used by BP aren’t going to cause birth defects in people from eating contaminated seafood. Tell the peeps that their was a much larger spill in Mexico in the ’70s that is now long forgotten. Tell the people that although the volume of oil involved is much greater than the Valdez, the Gulf of Mexico is much different than than Prince William Sound. And so on.
Southern Comfort
May 29th, 2010
10:14 pm
gh
Do you know any of the above you mentioned to be 100% factual? The oil is still spewing, so there can’t be any comparisons to the Exxon Valdez until at least the flow is stopped.
What we are witnessing is a failure in execution. Would you jump out of an airplane without a contingency plan? With that plan thought out, would you do the jump without the necessary equipment in place for any/all contingencies?
BP is pi$$ing in the wind now. Earlier, Obama was being called on the carpet for not being PR savvy with this incident as well as Nashville. BP, on the other hand, has been all PR and no solution, and we see where that’s gotten us. Somebody’s gotta do something. If that means nuking the Gulf, just do it.
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
10:15 pm
You are sorry? Hooey!
Your big bad government didn’t regulate, period.
Regulations, even the best and rightly needed ones, are of no earthly good if the regulators don’t enforce the regulations and the Congress does not do the job of oversight.
No amount of spin or chiding of Drill Baby Drill sarcastically is going to change that fact or your big bad government’s failure once again to deal properly with the consequences after the fact of its’ own inept oversight, now that Spill Baby Spill has occurred.
None of this will stop Drill Baby Drill. Hopefully it will end the government of Shill Baby, Shill!
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
10:27 pm
I really am a conservative and I don’t want government out of the way when that way is the rightful responsibility of government to govern. Liberal-tarians and Socialist liberals on the left can both get out of the Constitutional way they seem determine to take a detour around.
The Constitution gave government the authority to regulate with very good and well founded purposes but like all good things, when they are misused or excessively abused they will likely kill you.
godless heathen
May 29th, 2010
10:55 pm
“Do you know any of the above you mentioned to be 100% factual? The oil is still spewing, so there can’t be any comparisons to the Exxon Valdez until at least the flow is stopped.”
What in this world is 100% factual?
See for yourself. Google MSDS sheet for Corexit. Google Ixtoc I oil well (spewed for over a year).
The ecosystem of Prince William Sound is very much not like the ecosystem of the Gulf of Mexico (my reference is personal knowledge)
You can be assured that BP is doing all they can to stop the flow (this is product) and the Federal Government is doing nothing except making it harder for them.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 29th, 2010
11:01 pm
Well, I reckon the MMS people sleeping with the oil cos. people, like the report said they did, never worked too good, so it’s time to try something else.
And I reckon “Drill, baby, drill” ain’t always the best solution. Funny how all the people wanting more drilling are so quiet now. Except maybe for blasting the guvmint about stopping the leak. Only the guvmint don’t know nothing about oil well drilling. So I reckon we’re screwed, blued, and tattooed. Anyways, we never wanted to use the beaches or eat the fish and oysters to start with.
So maybe by August the releif wells will be drilled and the oil will stop. By then all those mamas that’s got kids that could get sunburned can just roll them in the water and they’ll be all oiled up.
So us Conservatives that wanted more of our own oil will just be kind of quiet for awhile till this all blows over. At least we know now where all the oil will be. I mean, instead of needing to go out and look for it.
Have a good holiday everybody.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 29th, 2010
11:05 pm
Pretty cool, obozo did nothing about this spill so that he could run the oil companies ragged and now the oil companies are doing nothing about the spill so they can run obozo ragged.
I’m betting my money on the oil companies, just sayin…
Key provisions of the sweeping law include a requirement that police enforcing any other law question people about their immigration status if there is “reasonable suspicion” that the people are in the country illegally. It also makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally. -Urinal
Just think, obozo and the Atlanta Constipation have problems with this^^.
Blackhawks!!
Michael H. Smith
May 29th, 2010
11:17 pm
Perhaps being quite is the choice of some so-called conservatives but for this Conservative it is still very loudly DRILL BABY, DRILL!; WITHOUT BIG GUB’MENT’S SHILL HERE, SHILL NOW… SHILL BABY, SHILL!
professional skeptic
May 29th, 2010
11:40 pm
How many Republicans want to continue to ease regulation and weaken oversight of the oil industry? Oh, and give them more tax breaks, too. Come on, Republicans, how many of you want this? Raise your hands so everyone can see.
Wait, where are all of you going? Darn, you switch on the bright lights, and the roaches go scurrying away…
theyeshaveit
May 29th, 2010
11:41 pm
Michael SMith, you pondered why BP did not try containment at first. In fact, it did, but with no effect. It did not work. Now, they are contemplating a different type of containment, presumably, having learned some lessons with the earlier attempts. But it is important to appreciate the difference between the so called “Top Kill” and containment. Top Kill was supposed to STOP the leak. Containment does not stop; it merely “contains” or limits the flow of the oil.
theyeshaveit
May 29th, 2010
11:43 pm
P.S., and where is Sarah Palin tonight?
professional skeptic
May 29th, 2010
11:44 pm
Trusslady
May 29th, 2010
9:41 pm
Amen, sister.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 29th, 2010
11:50 pm
I think we should drill, baby, drill on land, instead of in the sea, just sayin…
Gee, I wonder who it was that whined about drilling in ANWR, where this thing could have been plugged in about twenty minutes?
Any guesses?
Scout
May 29th, 2010
11:50 pm
Doggon/GA:
There still may be some treaty that would keep us from doing it ………………
Jay
May 29th, 2010
11:58 pm
Reporter, let’s deal with that foolishness:
So are you claiming that if we had drilled in ANWR, we would somehow NOT have drilled in the Gulf? Was there some sort of tradeoff involved?
Or, would we have drilled in BOTH places, and ALL places, because our thirst for petroleum is so intense?
Which do you think it is?
theyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
12:04 am
Off topic, but at this hour, why not? Besides, the death of “top kill” is all over the news. Let’s hear it from Glen Beck.
Conservative talk show host Glenn Beck has apologized for a segment on his radio program in which he made fun of President Barack Obama’s 11-year-old daughter, imitating her in a childish high-pitched voice and criticizing her intelligence.
Beck issued an apology on his website Friday after bloggers and parents objected to the tirade from Beck, who in the past has argued that the media should “leave families alone.”
The whole story is here: http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/glenn-beck-aplogizes-for-making-fun-of-barack-obamas-daughter-malia/19496426
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:17 am
Several points:
Skimming will no longer work. The dispersants that have been added to the water causes the oil to break apart and sink, going under the booms that have been added around the beaches and swamps.
Please go to http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/topic_subtopic_entry.php?RECORD_KEY(entry_subtopic_topic)=entry_id,subtopic_id,topic_id&entry_id(entry_subtopic_topic)=809&subtopic_id(entry_subtopic_topic)=2&topic_id(entry_subtopic_topic)=1
and read everything you can.
There is a map I saw yesterday on that sight that shows the drilling rigs in that area. There are almost 3,000 active wells and almost every single one is in more shallow water. My question is if oil deposits in giant underground lakes, why were we drilling in deep water when we had already been tapping that supply in more shallow, safer waters? Is it actually cheaper to drill in deep water because of much less earth to bore through? I can’t imagine that being the case.
This happened five weeks ago, but only after the oil was in the swamps and on the beaches did it become a politically sensitive issue and sure enough, that’s when the president became engaged. We need a leader, not yet another poll watcher.
The EPA launched a study for the environmental impact of dredged border islands being temporarily built to block the oil, but that ship has sailed because of the slow response by the president.
No one is blaming Obama for the leak, burt he needed to be engaged long before the polls started taking a hit.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:20 am
theyeshaveit
So when can we expect apologies from all the liberals that have made fun of Sarah Palin’s children and grandchildren?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:34 am
professional skeptic
How many Republicans want to continue to ease regulation and weaken oversight of the oil industry?
How many Democrats want a leader that waits 5 weeks until the oil is already on shore before he even visits the area? And you may want to consider, regulatory commissions are a mater of Congress and there hasn’t been a Republican congress for three and a half years.
The Deepwater Horizon was not an oil platform. It was a drilling rig that was simply a very large, very tall boat. One of Obama’s largest supporters, BP, contracted that “boat” to drill a deepwater well. That entire process started at least a couple of years after the last Republican control of Congress was long gone.
Now what were you saying about roaches?
theyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
12:37 am
Bugatti, why “all the liberals”? If any individual made the type of comments that Glen Beck made, he/she should apologize. For example, I believe Letterman apologized, did he not? It should be noted, that Beck made his comments about Malia Obama after criticism of the people who made comments about Palin’s kids. Quid pro quo is one thing, but we do not have an “original sin” here requiring the repentance of the masses.
moonbat betty
May 30th, 2010
12:37 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRD0ghlFSgk
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:46 am
theyeshaveit
That’s great that after Letterman’s ratings started taking a hit, that he apologized. Of course Keith Olbermann nor anyone else ever apologized and I might add that some of the things said on this forum go way beyond the pale.
Beck was a classy guy and apologized. I’m proud that Republicans are held to a higher standard. And make no mistake: that’s exactly what it is. No one expects Olbermann to apologize nor any other of the groups of slobbering liberal big mouths that have attacked Palin for two years, now. It’s not what liberals do.
See, the difference is that you are complaining that someone apologized. I’m complaining that groups of people didn’t.
theyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
12:46 am
It’s time to say good night. I leave you with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM40IzExGG8
theyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
12:49 am
Wait…..calling Beck “classy” is way over the top. How classy was he when he did that skit on the Obama family that Fox calls news? The “Family Values” party, indeed.
Peace. Out.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:58 am
theyeshaveit
Letterman made jokes on his nationally broadcast TV show about an adult athlete having sex with Palin’s minor child. Was Beck’s skit as bad as that?
And please, learn the friggin difference between what Beck does and News.
Considering that the night that the White House admitted committing a felony and tried to manipulate a Senate race. CNN was ignoring the story as was the big three.
It appears that FOX is the only network that is telling us the truth.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:00 am
theyeshaveit
And BTW, the “skit” was on his radio show, not his FOX TV show. Is it too much to ask that you actually know what you are talking about before you start wagging your finger?
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
6:22 am
theyeshaveit, I expect the government to protect the resources of this country no matter what or who else fails to do whatever. That is the responsibility of government to always stand at the ready prepared with not only a plan but as well have the means whereby to put that plan into action and execute it appropriately. Thanks for the additional information that really didn’t inform me very much.
So now I ask as I did in the opening of this blog:
What exactly was wrong with using the “containment strategy” in an all out effort from day one of this disaster?
I’m speaking directly to government which should have been doing this containment not sitting around, flying down to the gulf making nice speeches and bold statements. Yes, Mr. Obama, those are JUST WORDS, JUST EMPTY WORDS!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 30th, 2010
6:38 am
So are you claiming that if we had drilled in ANWR, we would somehow NOT have drilled in the Gulf? Was there some sort of tradeoff involved?
Jay- Which do you think is cheaper, drilling in 5000 foot of water or from the ground? And if given the free choice, which do you think the oil companies would choose?
How many Saudi Arabian ocean based oil rigs do you reckon there are?
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
7:05 am
I will tell you exactly which it is Mr. Bookman, we will have to drill baby drill, dig baby dig, cleanup shill baby shill, spill baby spill and do all the others things not because they are easy but because they are in fact the hard things no one chooses to do in order to reach the moral high ground of energy independence in a haste to avoid war not in a rush to dominate war’s outcome as we did in the space race to reach the moon within a decade.
We do not have to drill everywhere but we shall have to drill here and drill for now. We do not have to dig everywhere but we shall have to dig here and dig for now. We do not have to build nuclear everywhere but we shall have to build nuclear here and build for now. With each step along the way making us cleaner, less of a hydrocarbon based economy as we become more of a renewable greener energy based economy that is less dependent on the resources of others as we take each of those steps to reach the ultimate goal of making America energy independent.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 30th, 2010
7:11 am
The White House and independent Democratic lawyers have scoffed at the notion that anything illegal happened and accused the Republicans of trying to criminalize politics. Even former Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, appointed by former President George W. Bush, said Friday on Fox News that it was “highly questionable if there’s any crime” and that a prosecution “really is a stretch.” -Urinal
OK, if that is true, then what was “Plame Gate?”
Just askin….
Jail obozo now!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 30th, 2010
7:27 am
Metro jobless rate falls; area will add jobs in 2011
Metro Atlanta’s jobless rate took a deep dive last month, falling to 9.8 percent in April from 10.4 percent in March, the state Labor Department reported last week. Meanwhile, Georgia State University’s latest economic forecast predicted the area would add 42,500 jobs in 2011 and another 51,600 jobs in 2012. Both figures were downgraded from the previous forecast because of hard-to-gauge variables, such as the Gulf oil spill, said Rajeev Dhawan, director of GSU’s Economic Forecasting Center. -Urinal
Yeah, o.k.
The White House propaganda stooge corp/ AJC is probably the only sure bet for job growth, now or anytime soon.
How many people got hired in Georgia to make the unemployment rate “deep dive?”
Rightwing Troll
May 30th, 2010
7:28 am
What were those 3 impeachable offenses again???
Rightwing Troll
May 30th, 2010
7:30 am
“Letterman made jokes on his nationally broadcast TV show about an adult athlete having sex with Palin’s minor child. Was Beck’s skit as bad as that?”
I didn’t know Bristol was a minor. Did Levi face any charges for knocking her up? Were there any repercussions from the “family values” crowd for her getting knocked up as a minor?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 30th, 2010
7:39 am
This right here truly defines what a liberal really is-
Boy, 4, dies, pinned by SUV -Urinal
Anybody who could read the horrific and sad details of this article and then turn around and use it for propaganda against “SUV” is just a angry, stupid and really small person.
Just sayin..
RW-(the original)
May 30th, 2010
7:39 am
So Letterman can show Willow Palin on the screen and claim she got knocked up by Alex Rodriguez, but it’s all about Bristol. Are moonbats really this deluded?
larry
May 30th, 2010
7:40 am
What were those 3 impeachable offenses again???
Wearing the wrong brand of suits.
Actually speaking in complete sentences
Using Aleeve instead of Advil
Dont worry , we’ll make something up
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
8:04 am
It appears that FOX is the only network that is telling us the truth.
Let’s take a piece of truth from this day and a slice of truth from that day and tape them together and viola! We still have truth, don’t we.
You Did, No, You Did
May 30th, 2010
8:07 am
Are the so-called conservative, family-values, Republicans (or whatever they choose to call themselves from one day to the next) always so Really Weird. It’s hardly original.
Bob
May 30th, 2010
8:09 am
Jay, I think they would have drilled in the cheapest areas first instead of going to 5000 feet. Gov Jindal wanted to dredge temp reefs to keep the sludge from hitting the Marshes, he is still waiting on the permit from gov. How many years will it be before the regulators give the go ahead to Jindal ?
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
8:18 am
Just to re-capture the morning’s highlights.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
May 30th, 2010
7:39 am
This right here truly defines what a liberal really is-
Boy, 4, dies, pinned by SUV -Urinal
Anybody who could read the horrific and sad details of this article and then turn around and use it for propaganda against “SUV” is just a angry, stupid and really small person
RW-(the original)
May 30th, 2010
7:39 am
So Letterman can show Willow Palin on the screen and claim she got knocked up by Alex Rodriguez, but it’s all about Bristol. Are moonbats really this deluded?
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
8:24 am
And if given the free choice, which do you think the oil companies would choose?
Last time I checked, the oil companies had the freedom to just be Republican and say no. But they just could not say no to drilling out there in the Gulf. Perhaps they should have taken up that Republican habit sooner.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:30 am
Rightwing Troll
RW-(the original)
So you both believe that what Lettereman did and APOLOGIZED for is OK but what Beck did isn’t.
How odd. I expected no more from you.
Pretty disgusting if you ask me. So where do liberals cross the line? if a liberal was actually raping a child, would you still defend them? Yes, that’s an extreme, but try and come up with a point in which you would consider what a liberal did was actually wrong. Can you do it?
Let’s see.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 30th, 2010
8:30 am
Morning everybody. Don’t forget to go to church this a.m. Then we can go back to slamming and snarling. It’s the American Way. So put down the booze for a hour. You’ll feel alot better about it all.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:32 am
TaxPayer
LOL!!
And yes, your opinion about FOX is so important to the people who watch it. Run back over to CNN. I think Joy Bahart is doing another show with Lisa Manelli. Now THAT is really NEWS!!!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:33 am
Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it)
You are drinking at 8:30 AM on Sunday morning?
Wow.
jt
May 30th, 2010
8:33 am
Some good jobs for this “emergency”. But first you must submit to a federal five-year background check AND submitt to a drug check. Then you must wait for the results. How assanine?
From a local rag NWFDaily News———–
“A private-sector company that has a contract with BP will be hiring for three types of positions.
Around 20 of the 200 positions in each county will require supervisory experience. All candidates will undergo drug testing and background checks of the past five years, according to a press release from JobsPlus.”
Delusional Tea Party Zealot
May 30th, 2010
8:34 am
It’s all Obama and the Democrats fault. they controlled congress since 2007 they let mms run free.
Obama needs to do something he needs to add more regulations.
The Government needs to stay out of my business and cut my taxes.
Only Liberals eat seafood so who cares, why should I pay for a bailout for these fisherman who chose to fish near oil wells.
BP will do the right thing because this is a free market and corporations care about us.
Accidents happen so what, Brit Hume said he does not see any oil.
I bet the families of the mean who died will sue, All they want is money bunch of libs we need tort reform.
Delusional Tea Party Zealot
May 30th, 2010
8:38 am
mean = Men
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:38 am
Bob
There are almost 3000 wells along that coast. This would have been one of the deepest. From Grand Isle, where Obama pretended to care (He cares, alright. That 42% approval rating is sinking like the Titanic), you can see several from shore.
The crazy thing is that there was already a barrier set up for the Beach on Grand Isle. it would have taken a couple of days to save the beach, but that ship has sailed.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
8:44 am
I’ve had half a day to process this and I don’t know what to say either.
jt
May 30th, 2010
8:44 am
When people believe the power of the state is inifinite, only two responses are possible: anger, when the Republican emperors fail to protect them, or pretense, when the Democrat emperors fail to protect them.
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
8:46 am
And yes, your opinion about FOX is so important to the people who watch it.
Considering the type of person that actually goes to FOX, thinking they’re getting fair and balanced news, for example, I’m hardly humbled by such a claim.
jt
May 30th, 2010
8:55 am
MMS lied,
the marshes died.
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
8:55 am
Is BP making progress on that relief well? I have not heard. Perhaps Obama can make the Republicans happy by declaring the Gulf to be the new storage for our nation’s strategic oil reserves. And who on earth thinks that we have not drilled holes all over this nation. Here is some of what we’ve drilled in the Gulf. The number of wells drilled on land far exceed that.
Delusional Tea Party Zealot
May 30th, 2010
8:56 am
Can we stop the leak with some illegal immigrants? Fill the hole with them..
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
8:57 am
Considering the type of person that actually goes to FOX, thinking they’re getting fair and balanced news
I really don’t think such viewers believe this to be true. Rather, they think that Fox is merely as biased to the right as they believe every other mainstream is biased to the left.
So that makes it fair and balanced.
Kinda like how we’re seeing such over-the-top crazy stuff being alleged about the current Administration and the gulf gusher. I don’t think people who post such things here really believe half of what they say, but they figure it’s fair because their guy got pummeled so badly back in the day.
(I’d like to think my fellow humans were something more noble than that, something more than just a bundle of nerves and kneejerk reactions, but it’s hard to cut ‘em that much slack when I see topics like this being argued.)
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
9:00 am
And yes, your opinion about FOX is so important to the people who watch it.
I might add, the opinion of people who’ve loathed Obama (i.e. FNC viewers) since he won the nomination don’t mean a heckuvalot to people who haven’t, and don’t loath Obama now, either.
Run back over to CNN.
Why do so many righties persist in the delusion that progressives love CNN?
Jeez. You’re arguing about what amounts to an ancient delivery system. The bestest cable TeeVee news? It’s like arguing who makes the best buggy whips.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
9:02 am
Anyway, I’m off to worship.
Later, kids. Try not to fail in your efforts to stop filth from flowing.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:05 am
stands for decibels
“I really don’t think such viewers believe this to be true. Rather, they think that Fox is merely as biased to the right as they believe every other mainstream is biased to the left.”
I would have to agree with that. Of course what is considered to be radically “right” now is mentioning God, talking about patriotism, speaking out by organizing marches of old people, getting angry when members of the government says that anyone speaking out against them are NAZIs. “Right” is basically what the country used to believe in, when we were on the upswing.
Now, we are becoming less and less productive and our leaders now apologize for our past success. The democrats are building a brand new shiny plantation for the hispanics and we can look forward to much more taxation and much less incentive to succeed.
It’s really not hard to see why FOX is killing the other cable news networks and is actually competing with the big three.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:14 am
stands for decibels
“It’s like arguing who makes the best buggy whips.”
So are sites like The Huffington Post” the new media? Is the Mainstream media just not quite radical enough for you?
Sadly, I’m afraid that with this administration, the real media is being shamed on a daily basis for their lack of coverage of what is really happening. The do have at least a small amount of credibility to try and salvage.
However, for the few left that still believe that Obama can do no wrong, the Huffington Post and Salon.com are just about radical enough and in the pocket of the likes of George Soros to still support him no matter what. I think that unquestioned loyalty, certainly not real news is what many on here will need to go to.
Southern Comfort
May 30th, 2010
9:18 am
dB
Amen brother. I don’t know what to say about this topic. I’ll let the right/left fight continue and just sit back and laugh at this stuff all day.
AmVet
May 30th, 2010
9:21 am
Good churchy morning everybody. Time to act all pious, so you can get away with (excuse me, be forgiven for) whatever it is you get away with the other six days a week.
What oil? I can’t see any oil. Can you see any oil, Andy?
And just for grins, what are those three impeachable offenses again?
That crybaby peckerhead mocks an 11 year old child and he is classy for saying to was stupid? Otay.
The decades long and successful effort to under-staff and under-man federal regulators in numerous critical agencies NOW seems to draw the very small ire of a few of the right wingers.
Greed is good. Corruption and fraud is an admirable business model. As for the endless malfeasance and criminal negligence? Too bad…Just a cost of business in the corporate destruction of capitalism.
Thirty years later and prince William Sound is “pristine” doncha know?
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
9:22 am
I’ll let the right/left fight continue and just sit back and laugh at this stuff all day
Laugh. Cry. Show indifference… .
If only we had more tax cuts and less regulations, none of this would matter!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:31 am
Taxpayer
If only we had more tax cuts and less regulations, none of this would matter!
Actually, if we had an electorate educated enough to vote for their leaders, based on their past performance, could take a subjective look at a candidates past and present associations and ignore shallow kitchy slogans like Hope and Change, very little of this would have had the devastating effect that it is having.
5 weeks into the nations largest oil spill which could easily devastate the entire east coast and Obama finally takes a day from the golf course and fund raisers to make a short visit to the area to look concerned.
I understand that democrats expect very little from the people they elect, but really, isn’t this a little crazy?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:35 am
AmVet
The decades long and successful effort to under-staff and under-man federal regulators in numerous critical agencies NOW seems to draw the very small ire of a few of the right wingers.
The Deepwater Horizon was a drilling rig. It was not an established pumping platform. It was inspected often and several times since Obama took office.
How long are you going to blame this administration’s problems on past presidents?
RW-(the original)
May 30th, 2010
9:37 am
So you both believe that what Lettereman did and APOLOGIZED for is OK but what Beck did isn’t.
bug,
How you could possibly read what I typed and come away with that interpretation of it is beyond me.
AmVet
May 30th, 2010
9:38 am
“If only we had more tax cuts and less regulations, none of this would matter!”
Taxpayer, I’m still amazed at that “parasitic government” post last night. Tell that to the men and women lying in military cemeteries form sea to shining sea. Who died so that clown can write such childish and ignorant nonsense.
Yes, the little men who control the two failures called the Republican and Democratic parties are well on the way to selling off our blood soaked sovereignty to the highest bidder – on Wall Street or in China, it makes no difference – but I see them the same as I do the prima donnas in baseball. The game has suffered tremendously because of them and their roided out self-glorification and unconscionable avarice, but it will endure.
(Mr. President! Ban the DH Now! And raise the mound. And move the fences back to where they used to be when real men played the game. And put 10 foot walls back up instead of these little league 8 footers. And…) /grin/
“…under-staff and under-
manfund federal regulators…”bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:42 am
RW-(the original)
Sorry.
jt
May 30th, 2010
9:44 am
I, for one, am greatly thankful that we are protected from drug-addled shiite muslims that might infiltrate the oil clean-up.
They’re everywhere ya know.
Gator Joe
May 30th, 2010
9:47 am
Jay,
People died initially in this disaster, and tragically countless more will suffer from the after effects, not to mention the irrepairable damage to the enviornment, and I’ll bet no one at the responsible companies, or agencies will be held accountable. BP, the owners of the platform, and Halliburton will continue to do business, when at the very least all of their resources should exhausted, to the point of ceasing to exist, in compensating the victims and attempting to repair the damage.
Cooter-- The illegal hunter
May 30th, 2010
9:50 am
Bugatti pay little attention to the leftists on this board. they elected a criminal chicago politician. they will fall for everything.
Now he is destroying our coastlines, like he destroyed the economy.
Took him 18 months to destroy 400 years of success. We will be a third world voodo worshipping country once this man leaves office.
God willing this Sestak thing will get him impeached
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
9:53 am
With the appropriate quantity of more tax cuts and less regulation, none of this would matter because Folks like Fox would be unimpeded in their quest to be the best at telling us what to believe and Folks like BP would have free reign in fulfilling the laissez fair thee well that can only be fully realized with the complete and utter demise of resistance. Resistance is futile. We will be assimilated… Incorporated. Do not fight it. Wear your LLC with pride.
DoggoneGA
May 30th, 2010
9:54 am
“pay little attention to the leftists on this board. ”
Hate to tell you this, but you need to know…he’s no more capable of “ignoring the leftists” that you are. If he was, and you were, you wouldn’t even be here.
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
9:54 am
5 weeks into the nations largest oil spill which could easily devastate the entire east coast and Obama finally takes a day from the golf course and fund raisers to make a short visit to the area to look concerned.
Are you saying that this is Obama’s first visit to the gulf regarding this incident?
Southern Comfort
May 30th, 2010
9:54 am
bugatti
I’ve worked for the fed long enough to understand where AmVet is coming from. Those inspectors who inspected that rig did not get hired on Jan 20, 2009. The culture they operated under didn’t experience a cosmic shift in procedures that day either.
I get a kick out of people who continuously berate the government. I’d love it if we had a compulsory service clause in the constitution or something. Everyone should have to do 2 years of service after high school. Once you complete that 2 years, your name should go on waiting lists depending on your job skills and educational background. Government jobs could then be assigned like jury duty. Make everyone responsible for the operation of the government. People tend to be less critical and more helpful to things they have a personal stake in.
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
9:55 am
Come to think of it, my road needs paving. How many tar balls are needed per mile. Maybe I can get a deal if I buy in bulk.
Southern Comfort
May 30th, 2010
9:56 am
Now he is destroying our coastlines, like he destroyed the economy.
Took him 18 months to destroy 400 years of success. We will be a third world voodo worshipping country once this man leaves office.
AmVet
May 30th, 2010
9:59 am
Southern Comfort, though not technically “in uniform” I salute you. For your service and for what you do to make this blessed even better.
To that point, bug, like many with ODS you refuse to look at the big picture. For you, everything and anything that happens now has no connection to anything that preceded January 21, 2008.
See how it feels to have someone else put words in your mouth? To intentionally misrepresent you to score silly little political points? The reason that I am likely to not engage you much at all going forward. It’s a fatal flaw, bug…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfXxmVavjE4
Perhaps you’re better equipped to bring out the best of the mental heavyweights like Cooter.
OK, off to Lake Arrowhead for some much needed R & R on the water.
At some point today, get the hell away from your PCs!
And remember the fallen. And shed a tear for what they did…
DoggoneGA
May 30th, 2010
10:03 am
AmVet “And remember the fallen. And shed a tear for what they did…”
I do. Every Memorial Day, and almost any time “war” of any kind comes up…I think of my cousin who died in Vietnam when he was 19. And at the time he died he fit only too accurately the description “old enough to die for his country, but not old enough to vote for it”
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
10:04 am
When people believe the power of the state is inifinite, only two responses are possible: anger, when the Republican emperors fail to protect them, or pretense, when the Democrat emperors fail to protect them.
This person does not believe the power of the state is infinite; nor that the power of the state is impotent as it now appears to stand. Neither Republic or Democrat has protected the people or served their best interests particularly in regards to the energy policy of this country. Of this there can be no pretense: Only a fool or “partisan hack” would put any “unconfirmed trust” in either of them.
With good right the people have reason to remain angry at them both and the bureaucracy that they have all but given a free unattended mischievous hand to spoil the national treasure of our resources meant to serve our prosperity securely and not that to the benefit of the petroleum industry in collusion with a well-being of a few in our government.
My firm trust remains in the power of “We the People” and not in “They the Government” or in “Them the Corporations”. For “They” and “Them” it is the infinite policy of “Trust but Verify”.
PS. Well, there I go again Jay Bookman, distorting your record on the death of Reaganism.
professional skeptic
May 30th, 2010
10:19 am
Unbelievable. Some 12-odd hours later, and Bugatti is still crying for the government to fix everything.
Just when I think I’ve come to terms with the hypocrisy of the ultra-right, it just skyrockets to the next level.
The tighty-righties want to live their lives consolidating wealth and hiding it overseas; weakening environmental standards and industry regulations; demanding public services and infrastructure but refusing to pay for it; hating their fellow man; engaging in corporatist rape, pillage and plunder for their personal gain at the expense their countrymen; all the while demonizing BIG BAD GUBMINT and telling it to just stay out of the way…
But THEN, whenever disaster strikes, whenever their corporatist house of cards comes crashing to the ground, whenever all the corporations’ horses and all of their men can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again…
Who do the Republicans, ultra-rightists, neo-cons and tea-party fanatics want to swoop in and bail them out and make things all better?
That’s right, folks… the Government.
“PLEASE, Big Gubmint, please! All our under-regulated banks are melting down and about to take the world with them… SAVE US, BIG GUBMINT!!”
“PLEASE, Big Gubmint, please! Our under-regulated oil industry has blown a hole in the earth and oil is spreading everywhere… SAVE US, BIG GUBMINT!!”
The sheer hypocrisy of ultra-rightists is absolutely UN-BE-LIEVABLE, and never ceases to amaze.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:20 am
SoCo
“Those inspectors who inspected that rig did not get hired on Jan 20, 2009. The culture they operated under didn’t experience a cosmic shift in procedures that day either.”
That culture has been in operation under the Washington regime since 1803. Finally somebody other than a few of us on the lunatic fringe, James Carville, is beginning to at least hint at it by calling the response from all concerned the type of response you’d expect if this were happening in the Third World–which it is.
There’s not a whole lot can be done now. There was a lot that could have been done before. But why bother so long as the natural resources are flowing and the happy natives are donning their orange shorts and doing their colorful folk dances and serving up their spicy cuisine for the tourists?
It’s Katrina all over again and for the same reasons.
mm
May 30th, 2010
10:27 am
The usual drivel from the right.
The government should stay out of the way of big business.
Unless of course big business screws up. Then it’s the governemnt’s fault for not being more involved.
Typical.
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
10:37 am
I’d love it if we had a compulsory service clause in the constitution or something. Everyone should have to do 2 years of service after high school. Once you complete that 2 years, your name should go on waiting lists depending on your job skills and educational background. Government jobs could then be assigned like jury duty. Make everyone responsible for the operation of the government. People tend to be less critical and more helpful to things they have a personal stake in.
And I do berate everything that is bad or wrong with government because of all those who carried a gun into the field of battle in facing down an enemy determined to kill them. To sit silently accepting anything the government does as righteous is betrayal of any veteran, especially of all those who died to defend my right to speak freely against our government when redress is needful.
I have long advocated for compulsory national service, though I disagree with many politicians like Obama as in what that service should consist of, even to this day I would gladly serve despite the government twice passing me over for military duty and in spite of my present age I’m ready to go to the Southern border to serve in any capacity.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
10:41 am
Cooter– The illegal hunter
God willing this Sestak thing will get him impeached
Oh my God. I hope not. Joe Biden as President and Nancy Pelosi second in command?
No we are stuck for another year and a half. let’s just hope we can stop this madness by electing a Congress that will stop him until we can say Aloha.
professional skeptic
May 30th, 2010
10:43 am
I’d love it if we had a compulsory service clause in the constitution or something. Everyone should have to do 2 years of service after high school. Once you complete that 2 years, your name should go on waiting lists depending on your job skills and educational background. Government jobs could then be assigned like jury duty. Make everyone responsible for the operation of the government. People tend to be less critical and more helpful to things they have a personal stake in.
SoCo,
Now that’s a good idea. Sign me up for “jury duty” any time at the IRS!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
10:44 am
Unbelievable. Some 12-odd hours later, and Bugatti is still crying for the government to fix everything.
Perhaps if you actually read my posts instead of continuing with your slobbering rant, you would see that I have said consistently said that the boat to fix this mess sailed weeks ago.
try to control yourself and start reading.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
10:46 am
AmVet
I refuse to look at the big picture? And what is that? Everything is the Republican’s fault and nothing is the democrat’s fault?
That is the only picture you ever submit. Sorry. You elected him. isn’t it about time that you take responsibility for what you did and what he has done?
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
10:48 am
The government should stay out of the way of big business.
Do you mean from the other left side of your left as that statement indicates the laissez-faire classical liberalism of the Libertarians?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
10:50 am
professional skeptic
The tighty-righties want to live their lives consolidating wealth and hiding it overseas
What in the hell is wrong with you? Are you really this indoctrinated? My consolidated wealth disappeared when I needed to put an alternator on my 11 year old Chevy.
But please, blabber on. I don’t think we have heard those parroted and incredibly dishonest talking points quite enough yet.
jt
May 30th, 2010
10:52 am
Jo Nix-
Do you recognize the name of this oil reserve? Is that prophetic?
SoCo-
You said ” People tend to be less critical and more helpful to things they have a personal stake in.”
My wife and I paid over 35,000 dollars last year in taxes. I have a personal stake by gunpoint.
Regardless, I do not target you when I rail against a corrupt and intrusive federal government. I do not know you and I realize that there are good people everywhere. You can preface all of my rants with “as a rule”. Unfortunantly, the federal government IS ,as a rule, corrupt and disfunctional.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
10:56 am
To those that want compulsory government service
At this point we work several months a year, just to pay our taxes, at least those of us who actually pay taxes.
Pardon me, but the rest of those months of work are mine.
AmVet
May 30th, 2010
11:00 am
My last response to you bug, likely for a very long time.
Because:
1) I voted against Barrack Obama, you presumptuous fool.
2) You avoid the salient point of my assertion and then double down on speaking for me. (And you just ain’t remotely qualified.)
Enjoy your asinine blogging day, bug.
Later peeps!
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:03 am
jt
“Do you recognize the name of this oil reserve? Is that prophetic?”
jog my memory…
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:04 am
AmVet
Name calling.
If that’s all ya got, then that’s all ya got.
Enjoy you day. I’m working all day as I was yesterday.
jt
May 30th, 2010
11:05 am
Mocondo. There is someone at the higher echelons of BP who has good literary taste.
Gabriel’s fictitious town was eventually leveled by rain and high winds.
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
11:07 am
But please, blabber on. I don’t think we have heard those parroted and incredibly dishonest talking points quite enough yet.
Truly. Like this one:
bugatti
May 28th, 2010
4:00 pm
stands for decibels
Perhaps Obama will pull it out.
he probably should stop with the parties and fund raisers and start paying attention.
Today, 5 weeks after the Deepwater Horizon disaster he visits the coast. That is the same coast where the ragin cagin was begging him to do something, anything.
And:
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:31 am
5 weeks into the nations largest oil spill which could easily devastate the entire east coast and Obama finally takes a day from the golf course and fund raisers to make a short visit to the area to look concerned.
This sounds like “those parroted and incredibly dishonest talking points” issued on May 28th by Dave Briggs on Fox and Friends.
BRIGGS: This is not to suggest that he should have skipped on his obligations. He also honored the UConn Women’s basketball team. But, I think the problem is, he has not been down to the Gulf. He’s been on the golf course so much. He has not had that moment to get down there in the Gulf and tell those people he cares, that he’s doing something.
Are you, like Briggs asserting that Obama hasn’t visited the gulf in the past 5 weeks?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:12 am
Kamchak
LOL!!
So because one conservatives sees the same thing as another conservative, I am parroting that conservative.
And please. Explain (You don’t have even a fraction of the intelligence required) why that statement is dishonest?
What the hell. Give it a shot. Or resort to what you always do and throw yet another tantrum.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:14 am
Kamchak
BTW The governor was just on ABC’s This Week and strangely enough, he said the same thing. So is he parroting me? How did he know what I was saying? Do you think that he reads this blog?
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:22 am
jt
That had completely gone past me…and me the fan of his that I am. Oh, yes, how prophetic!
And speaking of readings, I just yesterday pulled out my copy of “Mamita Yunai..” Translates pretty well into Cajun…
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
11:22 am
And please. Explain (You don’t have even a fraction of the intelligence required) why that statement is dishonest?
Certainly.
May 3 (Bloomberg) — President Barack Obama is promising to help the Gulf of Mexico region deal with an oil spill that he said may become an “unprecedented environmental disaster.”
After a helicopter tour yesterday of the Gulf coastline, Obama issued his pledge to help the area recover from the effects of oil gushing from a ruptured BP Plc well. Federal officials said the devastation could exceed the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska.
[...]
Before returning to Washington, Obama took a helicopter ride to view the Gulf coastline. Because of bad weather, he was unable to see the oil slick, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. Obama got a sense of “what’s at stake” for the region’s economy and the “potential environmental devastation,” Gibbs said.
The president got an hour-long briefing from officials including Thad Allen, the U.S. Coast Guard commandant who has been designated national incident commander. Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana also gave Obama a closer look at efforts to contain the widening slick of in the Gulf of Mexico.
Approaching Louisiana
In his remarks while standing alongside a tributary to the Mississippi River, Obama said he learned the oil slick was fast approaching the Louisiana coast. The Coast Guard said it is impossible to estimate how much crude is being pumped from the well from at least three locations in crumpled pipes 5,000 feet below the surface.
Obama was at the gulf coast on May 2nd. Are you saying that this Bloomberg story is false, or that the tributary of the Mississippi that Obama was standing at was in Washington?
Ninja
May 30th, 2010
11:25 am
Kamchack -
Considering they all get their opinions from the same half-dozen people, why would that surprise you? They already this morning showed that “conservative” means nothing more than believing in the Great American BS Story, and they don’t have the slightest idea of what their philosophy even means.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:25 am
From: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/mary-kate-cary/2010/04/22/media-bias-exposed-msm-quiet-as-obama-plays-more-golf-than-bush
UsNews and Wortd report
But I’m working on a column right now on how few press conferences the President has held–his last one was in July of 2009–and yet he’s played golf 32 times since being elected, which is more than George W. Bush played during two entire terms in office. In today’s Daily Beast, Mark McKinnon agrees that Obama should play as much golf as he wants. The problem is the media’s double standard when it comes to the coverage of the President’s golf outings:
On Memorial Day last year, the press reverently reported that Obama placed a wreath on the Tomb of the Unknowns in the morning, and then observed a moment of silence that afternoon—on the golf course before teeing off. (I can only imagine how this would have been reported if Bush’s moment of “silent remembrance and solemn prayer” was on the green.)
… And how about this headline from the Washington Post: “Just the Sport for a Leader Most Driven.” Richard Leiby reports, “To some, Obama’s frequent outings reflect a cool self-confidence.” The article then quotes a sports psychologist who said Obama seemed able to play golf despite the grim reports by the media about the wars and the economy.
That bears repeating. Here is a journalist remarking about Obama that he is “able” to play golf despite war casualties and economic disaster. For Bush, the press couldn’t believe that he would dare golf at such a time, but for Obama they marvel that he can.
It’s a shame that Bush felt he had to give up golf because of the message he thought it sent to soldiers and veterans. I don’t think it sent a bad message at all, because golf builds character, requires mental toughness and demands honesty. Our golf club hosts a huge fundraiser for vets every year, and tons of them come to play. It’s great.
Not only in golf but on a variety of subjects, there’s a real double standard when it comes to press coverage of Obama and Bush. And McKinnon makes a great point.
So is Mary Kate Cary reading this blog, too? IS EVERYBODY PARROTING ME???
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:36 am
Kamchak
A helicopter ride and more promises that he broke. So that is enough, huh? And please read my posts and tell me where I said that he had never been on the coast.
The Federal Government has blocked every effort that the state was trying to take to save their wetlands and beaches. Booms were setting on the docks that could have been deployed, but BP refused to do it and the Fed went along.
The state wanted to start building barrier islands weeks ago, but have just been given permission to build 6 out of a requested 24 and the Fed is only forcing BP to pay for two of those. of course at this point, the barrier islands would actually trap the oil.
It’s an unbelievable mess, caused by the uncaring nature of this president.
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
11:36 am
Ninja
For the past two days, bug-boy has been parroting the “Obama hasn’t been to the gulf in 5 weeks” nonsense that he picked up from Fox.
Dave R.
May 30th, 2010
11:36 am
I once flew over East L.A. during the Rodney King verdict riots.
I must have helped quell them with that flyover, too, Kamchak
larry
May 30th, 2010
11:38 am
So this lady claims to have counted how many times the President has played golf? Give me a break. And Bush did not give up golf. Bush played countless other times after he said he gave it up. Maybe it would satisfy the neo-cons if the President filmed himself looking for the giant Bounty paper towel to clean up BP’s mess under the desk and around the oval office.
jt
May 30th, 2010
11:40 am
Jo-Nix
Never did any “Calufa”. I’ll have to check it out.
I’ve got some J.C. Harris I’m readingI had no idea that he had as many pieces. IMHO, the AJC just hasn’t been the same since he stopped writing for them in the late 90’s:)
I’m out.
larry
May 30th, 2010
11:41 am
It’s an unbelievable mess, caused by the uncaring nature of this president.
THE PRESIDENT WENT DOWN 5000 FEET AND CAUSED THE EXPOLOSION.
BP HAS THE PROOF!!!
ALL HAIL BP, HALLIBURTON, ETC, ETC.
larry
May 30th, 2010
11:42 am
Im out . Im laughing so hard right now that i am hurting.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:43 am
karry
Maybe it would satisfy the neo-cons if the President filmed himself looking for the giant Bounty paper towel to clean up BP’s mess under the desk and around the oval office.
That wouldn’t work on conservatives. We are smarter than that.
What would have worked was the president actually doing ANYTHING in the five weeks that this thing happened like LISTENING to Bobby Jindal and the NOAA folks that both claimed that off shore barrier islands would have worked.
Now this administration is beginning to see the light after the oil is already in the marshes.
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
11:45 am
I once flew over East L.A. during the Rodney King verdict riots.
I must have helped quell them with that flyover, too, Kamchak.
Did you also speak while standing at the bank of the L.A. river?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:45 am
larry
You are laughing because it’s all you can do. If you actually have any facts to counter what I am saying please present it. If not, perhaps leaving is your best option.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
11:46 am
KAmchak
Did you also speak while standing at the bank of the L.A. river?
Wow. He made a speech?
That should have fixed everything.
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
11:57 am
Wow. He made a speech?
That should have fixed everything.
First, you get all poutragey because he doesn’t go to the gulf coast (a false allegation by-the-way) and doesn’t hold press conferences, now your thong is in a twist because he speaks to the press at the gulf coast.
Can’t make this stuff up.
Dave R.
May 30th, 2010
11:57 am
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
Scat
May 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
I estimate that BP is spewing 500K gallons of Koolaid per day. The gulf between their spin and our reality is deep and wide. Obama should lower the boom on BP.
Oil and Koolaid just don’t mix.
Scout
May 30th, 2010
12:27 pm
“OFF TOPIC #1″
“”I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the Savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses … Whether we look to the first Charter of Virginia … or to the Charter of New England … or to the Charter of Massachusetts Bay … or to the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut … the same objective is present … a Christian land governed by Christian principles. I believe the entire Bill of Rights came into being because of the knowledge our forefathers had of the Bible and their belief in it: freedom of belief, of expression, of assembly, of petition, the dignity of the individual, the sanctity of the home, equal justice under law, and the reservation of powers to the people … I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country.”
Chief Justice Earl Warren, U.S. Supreme Court 1954
Oh, how far we have fallen from those words spoken by an “ultra-liberal” who if he said them today would be branded as bigoted, racist, and intolerant.
Bosch
May 30th, 2010
12:27 pm
Dave R.,
How’s their breakfast bar?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My goodness bugatti has gone insane.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
Mr. President! Ban the DH Now! And raise the mound. And move the fences back to where they used to be when real men played the game. And put 10 foot walls back up instead of these little league 8 footers.
I don’t see how any thinking person could disagree with that. I would also ban those horrid pitch counts. Nolan Ryan had 222 complete games. Now granted, he’s a super-human space alien but he doesn’t even rank in the top 100 on the all time list.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:30 pm
Dave R.
Last Saturday (not yesterday), a friend that is a photographer and I grabbed a video camera and drove to Grand Isle, LA. We left at about 6:30 AM and arrived on the island at about 4:30 PM. We were both looking to shoot footage that we could sell on the internet. The footage was posted yesterday.
When we got there, the beaches were closed but there were no signs up yet so we ran out on the beach and grabbed a couple of shots before we were approached by the local police who were very nice, but asked us to leave the beach. They sent us on a wild goose chase to get much more oil on a neighboring Island, but it was protected like Fort Knox so we returned to Grand Isle.
Now that beach was closed and guards were posted. So we started driving past the little town and found a state park. The girl at the gate said that their beach was also closed, but the pier wasn’t. So we grabbed the cameras and went out on a T shaped pier that gave us an incredible view of the dispersants in the water and it was very clear that the booms were doing nothing. The water from the beach looks pretty normal but when you go out on the pier and can actually see down in the water, it looks like dirty dish water with a very nasty film on top of the water. Lots of oil and dispersants were swilling around the supports for the pier.
As it started to get dark, we headed back to the car and as soon as I fired it up, the alternator light came on. We knew that there was no hope of getting the car fixed on saturday night in the middle of nowhere so we headed inland. We made it to a little town called Larose where the car finally died. I pulled into a “Casino” (all the truck stops are casinos) and since there were no hotels anywhere around, they let us sleep on the couches in the trucker’s lounge.
Sunday morning, we got the car started and drove like crazy to the local Auto-Zone where I bought an alternator and we borrowed the tools from Auto Zone and replaced the alternator in the parking lot with the help of a rather large African American named Jimmy. He was there to fix his car and needed the tools. We arrived back in Atlanta about 9PM on Sunday night.
I’ve been very angry this week about what I saw and I have been conveying the anger from the people in that area. They have just recovered from Katrina and now this. With our travel problems, the people there were probably the nicest people I have ever encountered. And because of bureaucratic blundering, they weren’t allowed to protect their homes and considering the impact of this mess on the hunting and fishing tourism and the commercial fishing, they are screwed. . . again.
The incompetence of this administration is affecting people’s lives. And with this mess, it could effect people’s lives from the Texas border to Maine.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
Isn’t Deepwater Horizon an oxymoron?
How about a little Koolaid with your oil, America?
Scat
May 30th, 2010
12:33 pm
Maybe they really can plug the oil leak with Koolaid.
It…..could….WORK!
Mr. Right
May 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
Im out . Im laughing so hard right now that i am hurting.
Must be a private joke. I don’t see any humor in this matter!
Kamchak
May 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
Hey Bosch–13 days, Rustenburg South Africa. Just sayin’.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
Anybody else notice how QUIT Dick Cheney is being on this issue? I mean he’s basically the de facto attack dog of the republican party. Since Halliburton was involved with the rig… and he was their CEO…perhaps he’s distancing himself from taking a stance and being neutral on this matter. Just like he did when it came to the “no-bid” contracts awarded to Halliburton in Iraq when he was VP… just like he was also silent when they were caught over charging our government as well.
Where are ya Dick?! We’d love your opinion on this! BTW…. anyone heard from Rummy these days? Did he just disappear off the dace of the earth?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:45 pm
Saul good
So how was the Jazz Festival? What’s your instrument?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
Bug…nice to admit that you planned on “profiting” from this… what other tragedies have you profited from? SELL the video? Ugh! (sad you don’t see how WRONG that is)….
Scat
May 30th, 2010
12:49 pm
How many gallons of Koolaid per day is BP spewing about the Oil Leak? It depends on what expert you ask. If you ask Britt Hume, there is no Koolaid.
If you ask James Carville, it’s the Niagra Falls of Koolaid.
The Mother of all Oil Spills is nursing the drink.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:50 pm
Saul Good
Every frame of the footage you have seen on this was shot by someone being paid to do so.
My video will be seen by people all over the world. Should they not be allowed to see that footage? So please explain how what I was doing was wrong.
Try to think just a little before you start wagging your finger.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
12:52 pm
Saul Good
And again: What’s your instrument?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
12:53 pm
Was HUMID but really a great time all around… I was going to head back today to hang out and watch some friends play… but I’m being a good husband and doing my honey-doo list my wife created for me… I’m a drummer as well as pastor of the Evilgelical Atheist Church of No. Ga!
(btw…don’t get upset with me for ragging on you… I think it’s GREAT that you went there to see for yourself what’s taking place…just not sure why you’re “selling” the footage…unless you’re a professional videographer and make your living that way… I just hate seeing people profit from tragedy…. if I had the time I’d gladly go there and volunteer to help in any way I could…I did so during Katrina and helped save hundreds of dogs and cats… it will be an experience I never forget. I truly feel sad for the people who are dealing with this in their hometowns…and I know it’s only going to grow and grow to include much of the coastline eventually). Good luck down there.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
12:55 pm
err…meant to say ” it WAS an experience I’ll never forget…i am TRULY the typo and grammer destroyer when posting on blogs!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:06 pm
Saul Good
i’ve been shooting video for several years and started selling some of my work to stock footage houses. Most of what i have shot are time lapses of the skyline of Atlanta. I really wanted to get one of New Orleans as we drove through, but we were afraid to stop because of my poor old car.
The stock houses are just not current enough to do this with a normal disaster. If a plane crashed near Atlanta, I wouldn’t even try. By the time it would be posted, the story would be gone. I figured this would last and there is very little oil slick footage out there that isn’t owned by AP or UPI. It will probably take a year to get enough money out of the sale of the footage to even pay for the alternator so it’s not like I am profiting. but it is sort of cool to do something once and get paid for it for years.
I play keys and also kick base if I have to. I still do a little studio work because I can read studio notation. I have several income strings, but none of them are going to make me rich.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
1:06 pm
If you’re keeping current with the oil spill, then you know that the leak may as well be on the moon. The pressures at that depth change physics itself so that it will take a true Einstein or a rocket scientist to figure out what to do. I count four different failed approaches to this leak. The dome. The golf balls. The mud. The Koolaid. Which brings us to something that we should have deduced would work in the beginning: The pound of sugar.
How many times has a pound of sugar in a gas tank stopped flowing fuel? Think of all the girlfriends you got even with when they dumped you for your best friend.
It….could…..WORK!!!
theyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
1:07 pm
bugatti said, Of course what is considered to be radically “right” now is mentioning God…
Bugatti, perhaps you just got back from church. Did you not believe that people from all walks of life and of all political stripes go to church? Do you think that conservatives have an exclusive on God?
By the way, speaking of Fox, do you not recall that Glen Beck was less than beloved by people of faith when he said this:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201003120055
Glen Beck preaches to “run as fast as you can.” I suppose that can also be interpreted as running one’s mouth off without knowing what one is saying.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:12 pm
theyeshaveit
I was referring to the difference between what is presented on the different networks. I watch them all and I honestly can’t remember when the last time God was mentioned in a positive light on any network other than FOX News. If you know of anything positive being said about that, please let me know.
There were a couple of “people of faith” on my facebook page that went crazy over the Beck stance on social justice, but many more defended his position saying that it isn’t the job of the government to engage in social engineering by calling it social justice. I tend to agree.
Mick
May 30th, 2010
1:21 pm
Beck is a snake oil salesman, people keep buying it thinking it will work. In the meantime, he laughs all the way to the bank. The con never gets old. “There’s a sucker born every minute” p.t. barnum.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
1:23 pm
How many times has a pound of sugar in a gas tank stopped flowing fuel?
I have some info that you may find interesting. I had an automotive teacher who was in the Army in WWII. He was involved in sabotage research, as it pertained to automobiles and aircraft. He said they conducted extensive experiments with pouring sugar into gas tanks of trucks, jeeps, etc. According to him, although it would sometimes clog the fuel filters, the sugar would never do any serious harm to the engine or the pumps. He said that more often than not, the gasoline would dissolve the sugar.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:26 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
Myth Busters on Discovery (I think) did the same experiment. Same result.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
1:32 pm
bugatti
I watch MythBusters all the time but somehow I’ve missed that one. They do some interesting stuff
on there.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
1:37 pm
theyeshaveit… I DO believe that many on the right think they in the very least are the “morally correct” members of the Talibangelical Cult. They “believe” that one can only be a “true christian” if you “vote” as they do. That’s what’s taken place since The Evilgelical leaders of the Moral Majority got involved with politics. They put out pamphlets and brochures telling their members who to vote for…based upon their own principles. Of course the MOST IMPORTANT issues facing our nation are abortion and gay marriage. Though… now it seems to be the deficit as well. Great article in the NY Times today with regards to that. The deficit has now only come into play for many and most of them since Obama took over. Where were they in talking about the deficit or government spending during the past 8 years? It’s hard to find even ONE article written by the Talibangelical leaders on their numerous websites and blogs from years 2001-2008… yet NOW it’s FINALLY an issue they care about. Funny huh? They STILL refuse to acknowledge that they said “nothing” when government spending was out of control during the last administration… but it’s now become SO very important to them. I wonder if McLame won if they’d be talking about all the “spending” he’d have to be doing with his administration during these hard economic times. Many of them now blast Bush and the other republicans who were in office during his two terms…yet they were “blissfully silent” when the out of control spending was taking place back then… ironic? No. Sad… and actually quite pathetic.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
1:39 pm
Bug… good luck and I hope you capture things that “help” others as opposed to things that simply cast blame. Great to know you’re a musician as well…SEE? There’s still HOPE for you yet!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:40 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
i think it was one of the first shows. Maybe in the same show as a banana in the tail pipe.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:44 pm
Saul Good
yet NOW it’s FINALLY an issue they care about.
Well duh. The deficit was never abused like it is being abused now. It a matter of degrees.
The nice thing about a camera is that it is pretty hard to find a biased camera. They always tell the truth.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
1:49 pm
Hillbilly Delux
here ya go. It was in episode 15:
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode15
Soothsayer
May 30th, 2010
1:52 pm
BP said preparations have been made for the possible deployment of the lower marine riser package (LMRP) cap containment system, which would be complex because of the depth of the oil leak.
Deployment would first involve removing the damaged riser from the top of the failed BOP to leave a cleanly-cut pipe at the top of the BOP’s LMRP.
The cap, a containment device with a sealing grommet, will be connected to a riser from the Discoverer Enterprise drillship, 5,000 feet above on the surface, and placed over the LMRP with the intention of capturing most of the oil and gas flowing from the well.
Mr Suttles said it should capture “most of the oil” and was expected to last at least four days but “we cannot guarantee success at this time.”
This is a good post with some technical drawings to help you understand what they’re trying to do next.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
1:57 pm
Bug: “The nice thing about a camera is that it is pretty hard to find a biased camera. They always tell the truth.” AGREED” (and so does a recording).
Oh Bug…it WAS being abused. I mean a TRILLION dollars for 5 years in Iraq? What GOOD did we get from it? You still don’t think we could have used that money over “here” instead of “over there”??? Maybe not at all…MAYBE we’d not be in sooooo deep if we didn’t spend all of the money over there. Would you agree with that? Because ME? I truly don’t feel that there would be one single different thing coming out of Iraq had we been dealing with them without “invading” them. I mean look at North Korea. Under WHOM’S administration did they develop their nukes? But we didn’t invade them…did we? Same goes for Iran…they too got into “nukes” while we were involved in Iraq… do you recall the “selling” of the war in Iraq by the administration telling us that Saddam was developing them? Because the TRUTH is that he was not. Out of the “3″ Axis of Evil parties that Bush and Cheney warned us about… only TWO developed nukes….Iraq was WAY behind them… yet it was THEY whom we spent out money…and most sadly…many “wasted” lives on…
You and I will never agree on this: That “massive spending” in OUR nation is the way to get us out of the “almost” depression we found our self in. It’s what ended the last one. That is conclusive. What I will guarantee is…that when you look at a chart, in about a two to three years from now… you’ll see that deficit curve on a chart going flat…and then heading down.
Did you “rant” about out of control spending under Bush? Or…did you feel that spending was necessary? Just curious.
Soothsayer
May 30th, 2010
2:09 pm
Gulf Oil Spill: With so many oil resources, can’t we just drill somewhere else?
There is a huge amount of oil which theoretically can be extracted. The question isn’t whether it is there–the question is whether the cost to extract the oil will be cheap enough for us to be able to afford the oil. If oil is too expensive, the high prices seem to cause a recession, similar to what we recently have been experiencing.
For those with a few minutes to spend this is a great essay on the current state of our oil dependency.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
2:12 pm
Somebody’s been drinking the BP koolaid. The titanic is in over 2 miles of ocean depth. This gulf leak is a mere mile down. Why can’t they fix it? Is the threat of this oil exaggerated? Even the worst case scenario has the oil evaporating and the ocean water microbes completely eating it all up. Those tar balls are the microbe’s turds. I think. (joke)
BP has no idea what to do. This has never happened B4. If they could plug this leak, they would have by now. The stock market rallied last week on reports BP plugged that leak with the Top Kill. The market doesn’t like being lied to. Monday should be a short’s dream if people realize that BP lied again.
The future of the Gulf of Mexico: Years of different oil landfalls of the different rivers of this oil which will float around for years and appear here and there. Maybe, I’m guessing, but my guesses are as valid as BP’s guesses. .
Hurricane? A hurricane will stir the Gulf and distribute this oil everywhere which may be the kindest thing mother nature could do. Dilute the oil. I’m guessing again, but my guess is Better than BP’s Koolaid.
Anyone who believes one word that BP says about fixing this spill is the living reason W got two terms, and why there’s a war in Iraq. Voters believe everything they’re told. Maybe voters are so lost and leaderless, that they HAVE to believe the superstitious mythology they’ve been brainwashed with since birth. Maybe mankind has a need to believe in something. Anything. As long as they don’t have to think.
Maybe. I’m guessing but my guess is as good as Freud’s.
What happened to the loop current threat? American attention span is four seconds. What oil? At the end of the first Desert Storm in Kuwait, against Iraq, Saddam dumped a bunch of oil in the gulf there in what was called the worst crime against nature since The Donald’s hair. That’s been ten years now. What happened to that oil? How about a reporter check that out?
Scat
May 30th, 2010
2:18 pm
Sooth, that article was interesting, but the author goes from his knowledge of deep oil drilling to our economic cycle. credibility: Zero.
We’re supposed to believe this guy knows more that BP about drilling the oil, and more than Goldman Sachs about what went wrong with our economy?
I don’t know much, but I do know Koolaid when I read it.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
2:20 pm
Koolaid, Koolaid, tastes great. Gotta stop drilling. Whoops. Too late.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
2:37 pm
Saul Good
A couple of points. You may remember your history as to how we got out of the great Depression. It was military spending. Most of the money spent on Iraq went into the pockets of American soldiers and American weapons manufacturers. And please remember that we are now approaching the one trillion dollar mark in Iraq, Obama spent that much with a single stroke of his pen.
I think that the mistake about Iraq was listing WMD as the primary reason when it is obvious that we were trying to stabilize the region and eliminate a threat to one of our largest oil suppliers. But the term “oil” means evil to most Americans because of a barrage of overt propaganda by the greenies. I’m not saying that we don’t need to modernize into an era without oil, but who among us would be willing to set in the dark and walk to work until we can upgrade to wind or solar. And of course, the rest of the world has left us behind in the nuclear energy field with France, of all people: leading the way.
And again, what ended the last depression was military spending which put money into the private sector. That didn’t happen here. The jobs increases were with the federal government. That’s not advancement in a capitalistic system, In fact, that is walking backwards.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
2:38 pm
I can stop the leak. Just pump a few trillion dollar bills into it.We are just going to give it to China anyway.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
Scat…let’s not forget that one the FIRST things we did when we entered Iraq (this time around) was to work on putting out the oil fields set afire (good documentary on it if you google it bc I forgot the name of it…sorry)… the oil fields were also the FIRST place our troops “secured” when we went there after “shock and awe”… most wasteful ($$$) display of fireworks in our planet’s history.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
Pump illegal immigrants into the leak. Take care of 2 problems at the same time. You’re welcome.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:42 pm
BADA BING…maybe we can just send “war hero” and ex Halliburton CEO “DICK” Cheney down there in his Iron Lung along with some duct tape and a socket wrench…that should “cure” the problem… Dick ALWAYS has an answer for things and how to “fix” them…where are you DICK? Please once again SAVE our nation from harm! We NEED you to keep us safe from EVERYTHING!
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
2:42 pm
‘The Jersey Shore’ cast is filming in South Beach playing in the ocean. No one is complaining about all that grease in the water.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
2:43 pm
scat
“Saddam dumped a bunch of oil in the gulf there in what was called the worst crime against nature since The Donald’s hair.”
It wasn’t the oil he dumped into the gulf. It was the oil wells he caught on fire. It was the air pollution that was the problem, which tends to disperse much more quickly than sweet crude in a swamp. And after your last 8 or 9 posts, we get the koolaid reference.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:44 pm
BADA BING>… why not just send down the dead “collateral damage” of little babies and innocent adults killed in Iraq to stuff the leak? Because remember…ALL live is “sacred”…as long as it’s WHITE and has an American Birth Certificate. Nobody else is “human”….
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
2:46 pm
Any scientists reading? Fire will burn underwater, look at underwater lava, you can also weld underwater. Natural gas is coming out with the oil. Could they pump oxygen to the pipe and burn it at the broken pipe?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:46 pm
Bug…glad you brought up the oil fields caught on fire… I’ll see if I can google the documentary I saw about it. Truly an “international” effort…but our troops were stationed there, worked there…and WE (the USA) paid for ALL of it….
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:47 pm
Opps…see what I mean about typos…ack! I meant “oil fields SET on fire… I’m such a DICK (Cheney) sometimes when it comes to never proofing while typing away!
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
2:49 pm
BADA BING…so glad you have all the answers…you better get down there…I’m SURE that BP and our government will pay you millions…opps…I mean BILLIONS for your expertise on stopping mile deep oil leaks. Let us know how that works out for ya! Good Luck!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
2:50 pm
Saul Good
Do you understand that Haliberton has been employed by almost every administration since it’s birth in 1919? Yes, Cheney was Chairman of the Board of one of the most powerful oil services companies in the world. He is a brilliant man. Obama was a professor and a community organizer. So is my brother-in-law.
I understand that liberals consider any smart Republican as evil, but please consider that while you are more than ready to jump right in the middle of a stereotype dictated by the DNC, most of us aren’t.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
2:51 pm
Saul Good, America hater……The US gives more to Red Cross, international relief agencies, UNICEF, et al than any other country. We have saved millions of lives in Africa with Bush’s Aids drive. We take in more immigrants than any other country. Your hatred is wasted on the kindest country in the world. For shame and on Memorial weekend to boot.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
2:55 pm
Saul Good
“Because remember…ALL live is “sacred”…as long as it’s WHITE and has an American Birth Certificate. Nobody else is “human”….”
You REALLY need to travel to a few third world countries.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:01 pm
Sacred only if they are white and a US birth certificate? You just ruled out Obama.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:04 pm
Buga: Yes, saddam did set fire to the oil wells, but he also dumped a zillion barrels of oil in that pristine body of water where we were feigning to do an amphibious assault. It was labeled quite a catastrophe, but I never heard another word about it. I guess I could google it, and become a total expert on the subject the way others do, but I’m old, fat, stupid and lazy, and haven’t been laid in years and years, which I find a great way to go through life, so you google it.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
Bug? Cheney is “brilliant”…. really? Then please explain “IRAQ” and how he said that the “oil there will pay for our war”…. that’s a truly “brilliant” mind at work…sheeesh! LOL!
I mean just look up ” Project For The New American Century” when during Clinton’s administration they formed…and Cheney, Rummy, the rest of the Neo Cons explained that Iraq has the 2nd largest Oil Fields in the world…and that we NEEDED to overthrow him to get access (it’s in two places in their writings… Under :Middle East and Under: Iraq)… they were PLANNING the Iraq war and overthrowing Saddam since the middle 1990’s. There were TWO prongs to their plan: 1-gain a central “base” in the Middle East…Iraq being the most central country… 2- Gain “control” over Iraqs massive oil fields which were NOT being developed… that it would both “secure” the Middle East and let the US (actually our oil corporations” bow out of OPEC and it would be WE who would control the price of a barrel of oil)…. the maps of Iraq’s oil fields are in their writings…so is the invasion…how long it would take…how much $ it would cost to remove Saddam…ALL of it. Conspiracy? NO… the TRUTH…PLEASE don’t tell me you NEVER heard of The Project For The New American Century and know that Iraq was #1 on their list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
From the article:
Love THIS: (can you say EMPIRE)? Did ANYONE ever tell them that ALL Empires end? Did they NOT read history and see that EVERY EMPIRE has done itself in with greed?
From their writings: “As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world’s pre-eminent power”
Calls for regime change in Iraq during Clinton years
The goal of regime change in Iraq remained the consistent position of PNAC throughout the 1997-2000 Iraq disarmament crisis.[6][7] They followed that up with a letter to Republican members of the U.S. Congress Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott.[8]
The PNAC also supported the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (H.R.4655), which President Clinton had signed into law.[9]
On January 16, 1998, following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, members of the PNAC, including Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Robert Zoellick drafted an open letter to President Bill Clinton, posted on its website, urging President Clinton to remove Saddam Hussein from power using U.S. diplomatic, political, and military power. The signers argue that Saddam would pose a threat to the United States, its Middle East allies, and oil resources in the region, if he succeeded in maintaining what they asserted was a stockpile of Weapons of Mass Destruction. They also state: “we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections” and “American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.” They argue that an Iraq war would be justified by Hussein’s defiance of UN “containment” policy and his persistent threat to U.S. interests.[10]
On November 16, 1998, citing Iraq’s demand for the expulsion of UN weapons inspectors and the removal of Richard Butler as head of the inspections regime, Kristol called again for regime change in an editorial in his online magazine, The Weekly Standard: “…any sustained bombing and missile campaign against Iraq should be part of any overall political-military strategy aimed at removing Saddam from power.”[11] Kristol states that Paul Wolfowitz and others believed that the goal was to create “a ‘liberated zone’ in southern Iraq that would provide a safe haven where opponents of Saddam could rally and organize a credible alternative to the present regime … The liberated zone would have to be protected by U.S. military might, both from the air and, if necessary, on the ground.”
In January 1999, the PNAC circulated a memo that criticized the December 1998 bombing of Iraq in Operation Desert Fox as ineffective, questioned the viability of Iraqi democratic opposition which the U.S. was supporting through the Iraq Liberation Act, and referred to any “containment” policy as an illusion.[12]
Please tell me you KNEW about this little “group”… Because THIS is WHY we went to Iraq… look at the “founders” of the group…and then look at everyone who made up the last administration… it could not be CLEARER if it was written on your face….
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
Saul. you mean sacred like the way Mexico treats it’s people? Where 10% of the people own 80% of the country? The peasants live off of nothing while the rich own huge cattle ranches and condos. They will not share their vast wealth with their own people and force them to seek jobs in the US. That kind of sacred?
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:11 pm
OMG! I just realized it’s been twenty years since Saddam dumped 400 million barrels of that oil into the body of water there.
That would be a very relevant story now. Somebody get over there and make a name for yourself.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
I know I shouldn’t bother, but…
Now he is destroying our coastlines, like he destroyed the economy.
Took him 18 months to destroy 400 years of success. We will be a third world voodo worshipping country once this man leaves office.
A lot of very stupid things will be posted on Jay’s blog in months and possibly years to come.
But for pure multilayered stupidity, it will be very hard to top this.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:12 pm
Bada …no YOU did… he’s BLACK and HAS a US Birth Certificate… all over the internet if you need to see the picture of it… “birther” are ya? That explains much (but not surprising to say the least seeing your rants)…
Let me ask…is WND one of the first sites you check everyday? Read it “religiously” do ya?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:13 pm
Stands…haha…I agree!!! Know what? 400 years of success? My AMP goes to 11. 11 is one more “louder” then 10.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:14 pm
Also, how is Prince William Sound after Exxon’s spill? How has nature mitigate that disaster.
What can we expect from this Gulf spill? Based on what’s happened before?
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:18 pm
Is the country in denial about the severity of this spill? James Carville is practically spitting into the camera when he complains about Obama’s lack of response. The Democrats are turning on Obama over this.
If we had facts we could trust, like just how much oil will be spilled when it’s finally over, if it ever can be plugged.
The final Plan B that I heard about was to drill another well nearby, and then siphon the oil that way. So the fix is to drill another risky oil well in a mile of water.
The mother of all catch 22’s.
I want my mommie.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:20 pm
Saul Good
yes we wanted a regime change in Iraq. We wanted one in germany in 1941, too. So what’s your point.
As to who claimed that Iraq had WMD, here goes:
One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
–President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
–President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
–Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
–Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
– Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
– Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
– Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”
– Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
– Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
– Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do”
– Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
– Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”
– Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…”
– Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Now what were you saying about Dick Cheney?
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:21 pm
Scat, it’s not a Catch 22. It is a Catch 23. That is one more than a Catch 22.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:23 pm
Scat
ut I’m old, fat, stupid and lazy, and haven’t been laid in years and years, which I find a great way to go through life, so you google it.
I actually found the facts, but it would be better if you found them. And you have given yourself all the credibility that you deserve.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
Saul, you just assume I am a birther. You know what happens when you ASSume? It makes an ass out of you. Me? not so much.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
BADA BING
If we don’t all conveniently fit into a very narrow definition of what a conservative is, none of their talking points work.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
3:29 pm
awhile ago I was asked:
So are sites like The Huffington Post” the new media? Is the Mainstream media just not quite radical enough for you?
You are (quite possibly deliberately) missing the point.
1) What you call “mainstream media” is not radical, was never radical. You can’t be mainstream and radical.
2) I really don’t see much of the HuffPo, except when people here link to it. I tend to start with the Google news page and fan out from there. If I want just straight-up progressive-leaning punditry HuffPo’s pretty vanilla–gimme Atrios, Pandagon, maybe Firedoglake or suchlike. (But I’m bright enough to know that this isn’t “news”, it’s just ranting and raving, albeit in an entertaining fashion.)
hmmm
May 30th, 2010
3:30 pm
California’s local governments are looking to bankruptcy as a way out.
Spain’s debt rating has been downgraded.
The dominoes are beginning to fall.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
in less than 100 years, the oil industry has become a leech sucking and then poisoning the earth’s precious bodily fluids. Electric cars. Somebody should tell the story of why and how electric cars, which were a viable alternative competitor one hundred years ago, got the deep six.
Now I suspect it was because the oil people bought out the electric people, and in some cases, murdered them to stop it. But that’s a guess based on what I know about people who think that business is the justification for any act. “It’s business”. That’s why we poisoned the Gulf of Mexico.
“It’s business”. Nothing personal. James Carville should not get so hysterical. He obviously doesn’t understand that it’s business what caused the oil leak.
It’s business, don’t worry so much.
It’s not a catastrophe, it’s business.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:31 pm
Bug….we wanted regime change in North Korea too….yet WHO and WHAT country actually developed nukes under Bush and Cheney’s watch? Because they sure didn’t have them during Clinton’s years….same goes for Iran…
As far as all those who said they “supported” the war… Obama was not one who did. To me…SHAME on ALL that gave their votes to invade Iraq. Even the Dems that voted for it… it was all politics at play (they would not be “patriotic” if they didn’t vote to invade”….yet it was NOT them who “cooked the books” to show there was a threat in the first place. BIG difference. Me? I ALWAYS knew it was BS. Always said it and always will stand by MY word. YOU? Did YOU “support” the war and going into Iraq?
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:33 pm
stands for decibels
We all google the news. Where do you get your ideas on what to google?
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
3:35 pm
Saul
“… he’s BLACK ”
The spirit of Nurnberg being alive and well…good to know we still have arbiters of such at hand…are you he who determined AmVet and jewcowboy not “real Jews?” That old one-drop mindset sure does persist in the post racial era, doesn’t it…?
By the way, concerning the birth certificate, did (does) Hawaii register births by race and if so how is his registered? This is not being snarky…I would be interested in knowing in which of these artificial classifications he started life. Does anybody know?
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:35 pm
Another solution…. insert an open pipe with a valve control and connector on the other end. The pipe would be 1/2 inch less in diameter than the broken pipe.The further that it could be inserted, the better the seal. The pressure would not be a prob, because the pipe is still open . After inserting it as far as possible, hook a hose to the valve and pump to a ship. There would be some leakage, but it would be slower. Any engineers?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:36 pm
Okay BADA…you’re just an ASSume in general… I’m not sure where you get you “info” from… but TRUST me…it’s NOT from “journalists”… how ’bout it? Do ya read WND? Do ya believe that our planet we spin upon is 6000-10,000 years old? Do you have a “god” that is the ONLY “REAL” god compared to all other human created gods? Curious…. yet still…feel free to answer the REST of what I posted…all I see from you (in typical Fox News fashion)…is you attacking the MESSENGER instead of backing up ANY of YOUR beliefs… Typical… ho hum…
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:37 pm
Scat
Somebody should tell the story of why and how electric cars, which were a viable alternative competitor one hundred years ago, got the deep six.
So where does the electricity for the cars come from? Your house? The house that is powered by Georgia Power? The same Georgia Power that uses Coal as their primary source for generation?
So you want coal powered cars. Hmmmmm. I think I will stick to gasoline until someone comes up with something that is actually better.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
3:37 pm
Where do you get your ideas on what to google?
the google news page. you know–
http://news.google.com/
I don’t have any specific news alerts going–I just have a raw page open with minimal adjustments to get a bit more local news tossed in.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:40 pm
Bada…I mean it…YOU have all the answers…. PLEASE contact BP our our government to offer these amazing solutions! I’m sure one of them will pay you for your time. Feel free to bring Dick Cheney with you…he can float down there in his Iron Lung with his duct tape and wrench in hand… you can give him your “plan” on how to fix it via your suggestions via two tin cans and a really really long string.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
3:41 pm
As far as all those who said they “supported” the war… Obama was not one who did.
Moreover, this issue was still so important to Democrats in 2008 that Hillary’s support for the IWR is almost certainly what cost her the nomination.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:43 pm
Saul, you are a legend in your own mind. Some valid points, but no personality at all. BOOOOOOOORRRRING. Put some zing in your insults. I do not concern myself with amateurs. By the way, smily faces are so gay.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:46 pm
No…I want SOLAR energy and wind energy (as well as the infrastructure put in place) to power and charge the electric cars… You? If we were able to “connect” our nation with oil, gas, coal, etc…what makes you think we can’t with Solar and wind?
How about this?
EVERY new home being built in the US from here on out HAS to be powered by solar and use geo-thermal? Gee…that would REALLY SUCK…right? NAH….what we’re doing now works so well. LOL!
Hey…did you forget $5 a gallon gas under Bush and the RECORD profits that the oil companies made quarter after quarter under him as well? Too bad they didn’t invest it Solar development… do you really and truly think that oil exploration is any cheaper compared to producing solar panels? Hint: It’s not.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
3:47 pm
BADA BING
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:48 pm
I don’t have any credibility, buga, because I don’t want any, nor claim any. I simply observe the oil industry’s response to the leak, and remember other oil spills, and wonder aloud what happened. You really got me good with that last comment, “you gave yourself all the credibility you deserve”. I am well chastised, and very humiliated now. I shouldn’t try humor when I ask questions about oil spills. It’s really not funny anymore, so I deserve being put in my place, that’s for sure.
The Iraq War was a far, far greater catastrophe for our economy than this oil spill ever could be. The Iraq War is still only in the 1st inning. We haven’t dreamed of the consequences we will have to face for being over there. You simply can’t start a war for no reason that exists in truth and expect to waltz. All behavior has consequences on all levels of being.
War should be a last resort. Period. Not the natural progression of a propaganda campaign that included a slide show, which was more fantastic and less fact-based than Alice in Wonderland.
I wonder if Powell will ever admit he knew he was a tool 4 W.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:50 pm
Saul, inquiring minds want to know. Do you have any better ideas? The so called experts are clueless. I can tell you have no experience with ‘tools’ and other manly things. Sissy boys need not apply. We need real solutions. This is the real world, no Lady Gaga posters on the bedroom wall for me. Harleys and guns , thats the ticket. Enjoy your mimosa.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:53 pm
Saul Good
“WHAT country actually developed nukes under Bush and Cheney’s watch?”
Pal, you gotta stop reading Salon.com. Korea not only had nukes by the end of the clinton Administration, Clinton had signed an executive order that allowed Hughes Aerospace and Norrell to sell China the top secret guidance system which became North Korea’s No Dong ballistic missile. In fact, in 1998, Paul Begals, one of Clinton’s advisors announced that N. Korea didn’t have the technology to deliver the nukes that we knew they already had. Of course less than two weeks later, N. Korea launched a No Dong that flew over Japan and landed in the ocean near Alaska.
Clinton not only didn’t stop them, he supplied them with the technology to put their nukes on our doorstep.
“As far as all those who said they “supported” the war… Obama was not one who did. ”
In 2003, when we went to war, Obama was a state senator from IL. it didn’t matter what he supported. He wasn’t even on the national political scene.
“yet it was NOT them who “cooked the books” to show there was a threat in the first place.”
So the Republicans cooked the books? LOL! Do you have any idea of how our government works?
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
3:54 pm
bada… Glad to know that you’re anti gay as well… haha! Tell that to the “gays” ALREADY serving in our military…I know how you already bashed “illegal immigrants” (ie: Mexicans)… against Muslims is “given” with you I know as well. Anyway… me? boring?! Nah…you’re just in WAY over your head at this point and as you’re getting pushed further and further back into a corner bc you refuse to address the issues being discussed… you attack me instead. It’s Okay…I’m used to that from the Talibangelical Right… inventors of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus! They’re as REAL as anything else you might believe in… like say that GAY Jesus guy… good looking, neat in appearance, like loose flowing clothes…wore fashionable footwear or bare feet… oh yeah… he was gay. Feel free to “prove” to me (anyone) that your jesus was NOT gay. My word is as good as yours on the issue. i have no problem if he as…do YOU?
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:54 pm
Smily faces are for third graders when they text about Spongebob. Really….for an adult?
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
3:58 pm
Saul, you don’t fool me. You really don’t believe all that, you are just upset becuse of that smily face thing.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
3:58 pm
Saul Good
“EVERY new home being built in the US from here on out HAS to be powered by solar and use geo-thermal? Gee…that would REALLY SUCK…right? NAH….what we’re doing now works so well. LOL!”
Do you understand how power grids work? When we build a house, unless it is built with it’s own power generation systems, we have no control of how that power from the grid was created. I’m all for the power generation systems, but it simply isn’t practical in most of the country.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
3:59 pm
Buga, imagine a century of development of electric cars and batteries. I’m just guessing, but I think we would have self sustaining electric cars that last months or even years before needed recharge. Not a hybrid, that’s a cop out. Full Thomas Edison. All electric cars. Now, if you believe the people who think that electric fields cause cancer, then maybe big oil actually is the better result. We’re stuck in our cars for hours a day. Maybe we’d have an epidemic of cancer. If little cell phones are a danger, then imagine the electric bubble an electric car would produce.
This thought process is a circle. Every time we have a spill, or OPEC raises prices, people start regretting the lack of alternatively powered cars.
The reality is that we will be pumping gas for at least another hundred years. (another guess based on logic, attitude, history, and the power of the oil lobby)
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:01 pm
I mean “if he WAS”… so do YOU have a problem with MY belief that YOUR jesus was gay? You simply can NOT prove that he was not…just like you can’t prove ANYTHING with regards to WHO “CREATED” the massive deficit we now face… not spending NOW…but your rants on spending 3-7 years ago…SHOW me previous posts of yours where you condemned Bush and the republican leadership running our nation for their spending habits… ho hum… enjoy your biased hate. Must SUCK being in your head…the hate you feel while you accuse others for the problem YOU created with YOUR previous votes. They didn’t do it without you…it was YOU and your votes that “caused” this. Or…did OBAMA “create” this near depression to begin with (I’m SURE you’ll say he did)… because the economy was ROCKIN’ when he took the keys to the WH… dats fur sure!
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:02 pm
SAUL
Your animosity toward people of faith is not helping matters for gays. Muslims, latinos, illegals or what have you. Plenty of us are people of faith, too. You and Bada are really cut from the same cloth in my opinion.
Bada–
Put ‘em in myself so folks will know when I’m not taking myself or them any too seriously. As for gays and who and what we are, you wouldn’t have wanted to cross me back in my hay day at the county line juke joint and here at the old folks home of the blogosphere, I’ll take you on with my cane any day of the week and enjoy every minute of it…
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
4:04 pm
Saul, you can’t push me into a corner, because I refuse to pillow-fight with you. I was right about that Lady Gaga poster on the wall though, wasnt I?
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
4:04 pm
“… he’s BLACK ”
The spirit of Nurnberg being alive and well…good to know we still have arbiters of such at hand…
J-nix, I’m not sure why that particular declaration of “Saul”’s has you upset. The President self-identifies as “black,” it’s what he called himself on his Census form.
(ok, technically it’s “Black, African Am., or Negro” on the form.)
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
4:11 pm
Scat
“The reality is that we will be pumping gas for at least another hundred years. ”
On that we agree. But electric cars simply isn’t the answer. They work in light weight cars but what do we do about a 40 ton 18 wheeler? An electric battery isn’t going to push that.
Look, I saw the oil in the water personally. We need an alternative, but it is not going to appear overnight.
Wind is only reliable on certain parts of the country. Solar is only reliable in certain parts of the country. We just closed the only nuclear disposal system we have ever built because Obama said so, so now the thousands of tons of nuclear waste is setting in the fenced in yard behind the 7-11. Geothermal only generates electricity if there is a hot springs or an active volcano next door.
i’ve studied this stuff since college. There is no easy solution. Personally I support all types of mineral radiation like nuclear energy, but uranium is not the only rock that produces radiation. There’s more energy in Stone Mountain than in most of our entire nuclear arsenal.
there are solutions, but we just haven’t found them yet.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
sfb
What I am making comment on is that we still find it necessary to argue what a person’s “race” is or is not…what has me so “upset?” Nothing really. I’m registered on the Census as Hispanic, in refrerence to my Sephardic heritage. Bottom line, only the Indians are required to “prove” their group status…CDIB card, you know. My question is, why the registration by race-ethnicity at all? As we become an ever increasingly diverse society, the more anachronistic these artificial categories become. Brazil finally has had to good sense to do away with it entirely in matters of documentation..
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
Bug…WE (our nation) built the infrastructure to deliver power by coal, water, oil, natural gas, etc…. we built the infrastructure to deliver phone, internet, cable, etc to almost every single home in our nation…what makes you think that we can NOT do the same thing to retro-fit hoes for solar, deliver wind power, along with other “clean” energies? Do YOU not “believe” in our know-how? I do. If we did it before with all other energy…we can do it with new energies as well. Yes…it takes “investment”… but did we not “invest” before?
Let me ask…WHO was it and WHAT was it that brought “electricity” to most of the rural south? It was the New Deal…. was it for the better of our nation? It “employed” people and it gave people what they needed…it also spurred many new industries…from creating switches, to lamps, to light bulbs, cable wires, refrigeration, etc…. I’m NOT asking “government” to develop this and implement it… the “development” is there… but we NEED government to help implement it due to current laws. It’s doable…and it will create MORE jobs than anything you can possible imagine by “private” companies who will develop and manufacture the very products we need. I’m NOT saying “government” should develop these technologies… yet I AM saying that government should help them…just as they helped stretch the wires we all used to power our homes and stay connected when we grew up dialing that black phone going round and round with our index finger.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
Nix, we are not cut from the same cloth. Saul wears lame, I wrap myself in the RED, WHITE. an BLUE. I am tired of America haters. When did become unfashionable to be patriotic? Why do liberals hate the US? We are the kindest nation on earth, look what we give to charities around the world.I guess you people will never understand that you are BLESSED to be here in the US.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:13 pm
Bada…. of course you were right…of course… nice “rebubble” from you… have your next beer on me!
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
4:14 pm
As a long-time fan of the 538 dot com site, I have to say I’ve never, ever seen anyone there make quite this bold a prediction about any legislative effort’s viability:
I wrote my doctoral dissertation and a few articles about Prohibition/Repeal, so I’m familiar with the politics of passing and then repealing an amendment, which is literally the rarest of occurrences in American constitutional history (n = 1). But I don’t want to talk about the political likelihood of the 17th repealers actually getting their way, which is zero.
Anyway, it’s worth a look, if only to understand why the Tea Partiers would be very, very foolish, politically, to actually get such a repeal to occur. Which it won’t.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:15 pm
sfD
I did it again! Sorry…I think if it meets with your okiay, I’ll take to addressing you as stands for…
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
4:19 pm
Bottom line, only the Indians are required to “prove” their group status…CDIB card, you know. My question is, why the registration by race-ethnicity at all?
well, off of the top of my head I’d think that, if for no other reason, it’s because we have laws on the books that redress past discrimination, and I imagine that such information is critical to see to whether ongoing implementation is effective and whatnot.
But yeah, maybe it’s dumb.
As to why only Indians are required to prove their status, I’d guess you would know more about why that is–I can only imagine it has to do with unique status afforded Indian tribes as to autonomy and self-governing (the legal ins/outs I do not begin to understand.)
But maybe it’s just because the Feddle Gumint are racist s–theads; that’s always a good bet.
Gotta run. Might be back later.
Outhouse GoKart
May 30th, 2010
4:19 pm
Enter your comments here
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:20 pm
SAUL
Just so you’ll know, I thank my G-d every day of my life that I was blessed to be born in the United States…and, no, i do not wrap myself in the red, white and blue…I fly it with the respect due the symbol of the nation of my citizenship, land of my ancestors, and country for which our boy serves in the military…you attacking my patriotism is from the same cloth as Saul’s attack of someone’s faith. Y’all are out to build walls and not bridges…not a good thing.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:22 pm
Bug…. come on now….show me the “proof” that during Clinton that N. Korea had an “operational” nuke…nope. Sadly… that took place under Bush. Missiles over Japan…of course I remember…. but by the end of his administration that Adam Ant Wanna Be was kinda content with the food and supplies the western world (and eastern) was supplying him with… in his typical fashion…he made “noise” when we went to Iraq bc we were not “paying attention” to the whiny kid that he is…but the “truth” is that he DID NOT have any nukes when Clinton was in office.
North Korea set off it’s first NUKE test on Oct 9th of 2006…. WHO was in office back then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_Korean_nuclear_test
Bug…I know you said that like me you’re a musician (well for you…part time)…but were you doing too many mushrooms in the 90’s??? hehe… I mean…REALLY!!!! HAHA!
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:23 pm
stands for…
What you’d like to think and what is in conflict on this one…dumb? Not at all. Ignorant, yes, and that is not meant to be snarky, but the real meaning of the word and not its contemporary Engrish usage…if you are really interested, go and research the Dawes Commission rolls and what was at work at that time…it wasn’t redress, I assure you…
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
4:26 pm
Saul Good
No the technology isn’t there. We are working on it, and it will be there. Yes, the private sector will develop it. And in doing so, it will not be a gigantic waste of resources spread among hundreds of bureaucrats like the government would do.
I’ve checked into going off the grid. In Atlanta, it’s simply not going to happen. The sun is not strong enough here for sustained solar and the winds are not reliable enough. Just go talk to the owner of the Restaurant Six Feet Under about the wind mill he installed. it helps, when it works, but it is impossible at this time to deliver reliable power without coal or oil.
But consider this: Once we all go off the grid (adding about $60,000 to the price of a house), what about industry? A simple manufacturing plant will use hundreds of times more power than the average house. And what about petrochemicals? The computer screen that you are looking at is about 90% petroleum based as is just about everything that has plastic in it.
We have to figure this out, but just declaring oil as evil ain’t going to do it.
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:27 pm
josef…. I too love this nation… but i’ve been left to feel that others are trying to “hijack” it and question the patriotism of ANYONE who does not go to church…does not vote republican (or the other names they have these days…INCLUDING Libertarian)…. I’m just as American as you my friend. I’d be SADDENED if you felt I was not. I love this country… but I also love living on planet EARTH and feel that the “human created” borders that were put in place to “limit” humans in the first place are not working. I’m a HUMAN first and an American second…i would hope that ALL humans would agree. It would spare many many live around our planet if people stopped to think about it for a second… imaginary lines “limit” humanity…. truly think about it…
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:28 pm
Bug…gotta go… but I DID write previously about my geothermal and my solar water heat… will continue later or tomorrow. Good points you made… good evening. Truly.
Pogo
May 30th, 2010
4:29 pm
Oh, all this teeth knashing! Obama should have been able to walk on the waters of the gulf out to the well, lay his hands on it and said “HEAL THYSELF, EVIL CAPITALIST SYMBOL OF HUMAN CONSUMPTION AND GREED!” and the well then should have stop spilling forth.
It must he humbling to you liberal/progressives to see exactly what kind of loser you have elected. Obama partook of the BP money well as much as anyone. He was compromised by the allure of power and money before he ever even ran for office. Obama will go down as one of the most corrupt and inept presidents this country has ever produced.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
4:29 pm
The problem of freight is another kink in the logic which might take us from gas to electric power. Human nature is the main kink. We’re reckless, and the businessmen who can cut costs at the expense of safety are the ones who rise to the top. Mines. Drilling. Space exploration. Shipbuilding. Unsafe at any speed cars.
However. That’s all speculation and nonsense from me. The great question before America is: What kind of disaster are we dealing with in the gulf, and what does it mean about the price of tea in china.
Funny and ironic how the price of tea in china, which used to be an expression of irrelevance is now at the beginning, middle and end of every issue facing us today.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
4:32 pm
Saul Good
We are not going to agree on this, but Korea was bragging about having nukes in the first Bush Administration. The test broke every international arms treaty ever made so I wouldn’t put a lot of faith into when their first test was.
But if you are right, what should Bush have done? As of 2008, Iran didn’t have nukes, but chances are, they will have them before Obama leaves office. What would you have him do?
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:36 pm
SAUL
My apologies on the above, My jerking knee got in the way. I meant to address that on the patriotism to BADA who questioned mine as a liberal…you did not do that…I’m sorry for the bad..I do not question your loyalties to our country…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
4:36 pm
Back in a little while. It’s the Russian hour…
Scat
May 30th, 2010
4:37 pm
Alright, Pogo, the democrats are seceding from Obama in droves so we’ll concede your point that we elected a great speaker and an average man to be our president.
And I’m glad the Right has a easy target who provides material that writes itself. I can tell you guys on the Right are having a ball and this whole election year has become a home run derby for conservatives. It’s fun to be the party seeking to get back in. Maybe cause it’s easier to attack than defend. Don’t know. It’s certainly more fun to attack.
I still wish someone could give an accurate assessment of this oil spill. Now this is something to lose sleep over. It could still be a minor problem that will clean itself up in a few years. Right?
I mean, it’s not definite that the gulf is a toilet now; the fishing industry destroyed. Right? We could still get lucky and get out of this?
The Tea Party has picked up the slogan, “I want my country back”. I wonder how far back into campaign history that slogan goes. Certainly Thomas Jefferson or John Adams didn’t use it. It was too soon.
I wonder who was the first candidate to say, “I want my country back.”
Saul Good
May 30th, 2010
4:45 pm
Thanks josef… thanks bug for our debates and lack of name calling or attacks… we may disagree… but that’s okay…we’ll never change each others minds…but hopefully we’ll teach one another where we stand with facts and an appreciation for our differences. My best friend (whom I met at Berklee College of Music 26 years ago and who I then went to NYU with as well to finish our degrees) is a republican die hard (though yeah…he calls himself a libertarian post bush) . he and I argue every single day and have since I first met him during the Reagan era… yet he’s still my best friend. We’ve always been there for one another and know when to put away our “political weapons”…. I was his best man, as he was mine… I gave him crap for 8 years…and he’s giving it to me these days…yet still we revolve around the sun (or is it the moon)!!!??? haha….okay…I’m REALLZY outa here now!!!
Too all….a good night!!! Thanks for the bashing! (BOW)!!!
Carnac the magnificent
May 30th, 2010
5:07 pm
My prediction…the leak will not stop until the relief wells are finished in August. Meanwhile, this season will bring a huge hurricane into the Gulf aimed at NO. The levees will break again and flood the city with toxic oil and put an end to that hellhole for good. Easy cleanup, just light and watch it burn. Repeat as needed.
Scout
May 30th, 2010
5:09 pm
Headline: “Obama ‘Enraged’ Over Latest Failure to Plug Hole”
“Daddy, did you plug the hole yet?”
Scout
May 30th, 2010
5:14 pm
“Headline: ‘They should not have done this,’ Dem says of DADT fast track”
“A leading Democratic voice (Senator James Webb) on military affairs has criticized members of his own party for the hurried way in which congressional Democrats and the White House are pushing through the repeal of the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.”
Scout
May 30th, 2010
5:15 pm
P.S. The above post was “OFF TOPIC” #2
Carnac the magnificent
May 30th, 2010
5:22 pm
The Gulf coast states rebuilt after Katrina. Nashville was flooded, but the people themselves got together and are rebuilding. New Orleans is still a cesspool. That is because they are suffering from Liberalism, of which there is no known cure.
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
5:33 pm
Why hasn’t Obama cut taxes and reduced regulations! What is he waiting for! It’s our only hope for resolving this oil spill… and everything else that ails us. Less government! Lower taxes! It’s the only way.
Carnac the magnificent
May 30th, 2010
5:33 pm
And in the beginning, OBAMA bade them to ‘plug the hole’! But the Philistines were unable to stem the onslaught. Then in HIS anger did he gather together HIS war chamber, Harry, Joe, and Nancy. HE commanded the oil to stop in HIS name. But the black enemy poured forth in such a manner as to mock HIM. ‘Begone you oily slime, in My name I command thee’! HE shouted, but to no avail.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
5:42 pm
Scout–
Howzit goin’? Webb, you say…hmmm…’course he’s been saying this all along with a lot of other Dems…they’ve at least been out there saying it a not giving a line of bullsh*t like Fierce Advocate…we’ll see what comes of this…w-a-a-a-ay too open-ended to suit me,,,either you know what or get off the pot…
Carnac the magnificent
May 30th, 2010
5:46 pm
It was a dark and stormy night. Little did anyone know what evil machinations the night held for them. Somewhere off the Louisiana coast, a band of men were sleeping off a hard day of drilling, and a few too many stiff libations over a bland dinner. Suddenly a huge methane bubble that had been building in the pipes over a mile below the suface, exploded into a huge fireball that lit up the darkened sky for miles. And such was the beginning of dark days for the US coast.
larry
May 30th, 2010
5:46 pm
Dont ya just love it when PRIVATE industry screws up, whether it be banks,oil or auto industry and same people who criticize the government for bailing out priviate industry are the same people criticizing the government for something that PRIVATE industry did. I guess , according to some people in here , we have to bail out BP for their neglence.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
6:00 pm
Wind is only reliable on certain parts of the country. Solar is only reliable in certain parts of the country.
Which, in my opinion, is why we shouldn’t look for a “one size fits all” solution. Use wind in areas where it’s feasible, solar where it’s feasible, etc. The only thing that probably needs to be somewhat standard is vehicle fuel. Otherwise, you’d have a logistical nightmare in going across the country.
It’s unrealistic to think that we can flip a switch and make this happen. What we need to do is set a realistic goal and work towards it. The Mercury program didn’t go to the moon. It was Step 1 in a long process. We could set a goal, of perhaps, a 5% reduction in the use of oil, in X number of years. Work towards that goal and when you achieve it, set another one. That’s how change will come.
Some things wouldn’t even be that hard to do. I’ve often wondered how many barrels of oil are wasted in drive-thrus every year. It would be as simple to fix that as people getting out of their vehicles and walking their lazy butts inside. Those physically unable to do that make up a very small percentage of the people in the drive thru, from my observations.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
6:08 pm
Hillbilly
Your points are well made. We have to wean ourselves off the internal combustion engine as what Granny called “a sweet teat..” I read a report on a study, and I can’t recall when or where, on the emissions factor of the drive through in relation to the greenhouse effect…it was amazing…but, you are right, getting off our fat and sassy b*tts while we can still call it a matter of choice would be a good place to start…
Scout
May 30th, 2010
6:14 pm
josef:
I hear you. Have a great Memorial Day ………..
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
6:16 pm
Scout
I am. Trivia for you. Which of the various minorities in America had the highest per capita loss of life in Vietnam? The American Indian. Unmentionable told us to remember that today…
Carnac the magnificent
May 30th, 2010
6:21 pm
Little Pinky the octopus was worried. What was happening to his widdle house at the bottom of the sea? The water was turning dark, and Pinky hurried to find his finny little friend Fergy the fish. Fergy,too, was in a panic. What to do? What to do? Fergy screamed as Pinky approached. Never had this happened in Coral Corners, their little paradise under the sea. They swam off to find the wise, old clam everyone called Clampers. Old Clampers knew that this was going to happen, but no one in Coral Corners would listen to him. Pinky and Fergy were listening now.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
6:25 pm
Josef
I don’t have any figures but think how many landfills there are across the country. A goodly percentage of what is in them could be turned into some sort of fuel, be it methane or whatever. Animal manure is another source that might be tapped. I read, about a year ago, of a small town in Kentucky that had a large number of people in the area who were poultry growers. They had formed some sort of co-op to build a facility to generate electricity using the chicken manure and their goal was for it to supply all the town’s electricity..
Large poultry farms and pork farms have large amounts of manure and dealing with it is a problem for them. It might kill two birds with one stone. It doesn’t have to provide 100% of the energy but 25-30% in a given area might make a dent.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
6:28 pm
Hillbilly
Again, I can’t remember when and where I read it, but there’s a town up in North Carolina doing that with the pig farms…
Scout
May 30th, 2010
6:35 pm
josef:
Yes, I think you are correct. They have always stepped up to volunteer. An amazing thing based on what the United States did to them over the history of our country.
Here are some other stats you may not be aware of (the revisionist history people try to hide them):
1) 25% of V.N. veternas were drafted. In WWII the draft rate was 67%.
2) Killed in Action: 86.8% Caucasian, 12.1% Black and 1.1% Other
3) Approximately 10,000 Americans fled to Canada and 30,000 Canadians entered our Armed Forces during the Vietnam era.
4) 25% of the 58,000+ killed in V.N. were Marines. There were more Marine “casualities” in V.N. than WWII.
5) And this is the one that gets to me most ……….. In May, 1968 Johnson made his famous speech saying he was pulling the troops out of Vietnam. More U.S. troops died after that speech than before.
Sources: VFW Magazine – January 1998 and “Stolen Valor” by B.G. Burkett
“Once a Warrior King” by David Donovan:
“If there was immorality in the war in Vietnam, it was that a democratic nation called her citizens to war, had them killed by the tens of thousands, and then, like a faithless lover, turned and scorned the survivors. Oh, perfidious nation!”
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
6:37 pm
Ethanol has gotten a bad rap, I think. It can be made from things other than corn and that might save some small farms. The problem with it currently is that it gotten hijacked by Corporate Agri-Business and turned into a subsidy for them, in my opinion. It can be made from things that aren’t food crops, so it wouldn’t be in direct competition with the food supply.
I’ve always had a suspicion that we won’t get a handle on this, until the companies that control our current energy supply figure out how to get control of whatever is new.
Scat
May 30th, 2010
6:38 pm
Boone Pickens called the Top Kill a long shot. He thinks that we are funding both sides of the war on terror with oil revenue. BP doesn’t seem to have any end to their Plan B’s. I estimate that BP is spewing 2 million gallons of Koolaid per day. The gulf between their spin and reality is deep and wide. ]Obama should lower the boom on BP.
I haven’t been this concerned about this country since 911. What if this was a terrorist attack. What if BP really is funding both sides of the war, and the one person, in charge on Deepwater Horizon, who kept compromising safety for time and profits was paid to ignore the warning signs, or blackmailed by terrorists. Maybe they threatened his family. The events leading up to the blowout read as if the person responsible did it on purpose. He had an answer for everything that came up. Every move he made ensured the blow out.
That’s as likely as Obama sabotaging the well.
Del
May 30th, 2010
6:39 pm
josef,
I served with American Indians and Canadian Indians that came here to enlist. The latter were among the nearly 20,000 Canadians who volunteered. Those who chose the USMC were fine Marines all. Don’t know about all of the stats but close to 80% of the military in Vietnam were White Americans and most were volunteer enlistments. The most volunteer enlistments in any war we’ve fought since even before the World War’s not withstanding our all volunteer military of today.
walker
May 30th, 2010
6:40 pm
Put Chuck Norris in charge. He will give that oil leak 5 minutes to get out of town.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
6:42 pm
1) 25% of V.N. veterans were drafted. In WWII the draft rate was 67%.
Could part of that be attributed to the fact that there was a much larger mobilized force in WWII? (That’s just a question). I wasn’t quite old enough for Vietnam but I did know several boys who “volunteered” so they could pick their branch of service, knowing they were going to be drafted anyway. One or two volunteered after receiving their draft notices, if I’m not mistaken. (Memory is a tad foggy on that).
walker
May 30th, 2010
6:43 pm
Chuck Norris could plug that leak with his beard and pleasure your wife at the same time.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Some things wouldn’t even be that hard to do. I’ve often wondered how many barrels of oil are wasted in drive-thrus every year. It would be as simple to fix that as people getting out of their vehicles and walking their lazy butts inside.
I hear ya, but good luck getting even a tax-break kinda nudge to stop this sort of wasteful practices so common here in America without having to hear the usual chorus of… well, I don’t really need to tell you what you’d be called, right?
Scout
May 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe :
That and the fact that they were in for the “duration” not just two years. It’s just that Vietnam is always referred to as the “great draft war” and that is incorrect.
walker
May 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Chuck could plug that laek with his family jewels. (Each one of his family jewels is bigger than the other)!
Scout
May 30th, 2010
6:52 pm
Del:
My squad sgt. was Bjorn _________, a Swedish citizen.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
6:52 pm
Scout, Del
In those misadventures “over there” American Indians, .9% of the population, account for 1.4% of the deaths in combat…the only group in the ethnicity breakdown with a percentage higher than their percentage of the general population…
Hillbilly
Brazil has been the leader in ethanol, but at a cost…clearing land for the planting of cane has had the side effect of destroying more and more of the rain forest…
professional skeptic
May 30th, 2010
6:56 pm
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
5:33 pm
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
7:02 pm
Brazil has been the leader in ethanol, but at a cost…clearing land for the planting of cane has had the side effect of destroying more and more of the rain forest…
That’s a very valid concern but I was thinking here in the U.S. we could put some idle farmland back into production. The demand for turning them into subdivisions has slowed, so we might make them productive again.
well, I don’t really need to tell you what you’d be called, right?
Probably nothing I haven’t been called before.
Fortunately their are a few on here, from different political persuasions (yourself included), who can disagree with me without resorting to name calling. Of course, I figure if I don’t call people names, they might show me the same courtesy.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:12 pm
HillbillyOne of my own concerns, and I DO agree with you on the saving of farmland from “development,” is that greed being what it is, we as one of the world’s breadbaskets, would turn too much of our productive farm capacities over to production for ethanol instead of food. My second concern is that this would hasten the demise of the privately owned farm in favor of the corporate giants who, already, own too much of the farmland, in my opinion..don’t misunderstand,
I am in favor of ethanol as a renewable source. I just think we need to make haste slowly…
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
7:18 pm
I just think we need to make haste slowly…
Well, that’s sound advice for most situations in life.
I would like to see something done in the way of leveling the playing field between privately owned farms and corporate farms. I saw something the other day about how many millions in subsidies go to farms with large corporate and/or foreign owners.
There is a website where you can go and see (I’ve forgotten where it is) how much farmers in your county have received in subsidies in the last 10 years. In my area, most received nothing and the ones who received something usually got so little, I wondered why they even bothered to apply.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:19 pm
Hillbilly
BTW since you watch the same kind of tee-vee I do, do you remember a program that was done by a group of people who set out to drive across America using only fuel from renewable resources?
Southern Comfort
May 30th, 2010
7:20 pm
HD
I’ve met people coming here who use pine to produce a biofuel. I think they’re using what’s left from harvesters who use trees for paper or other products. I haven’t researched it, but that’s doable. Some species of pine mature quick enough that GP plants them for harvesting.
josef
Just don’t impede on my “corn squeezin’s” and your ethanol fuel is ok with me.
I see there’s been a fairly lively discussion today. I didn’t mean to step on any toes with my comment earlier about compulsory service. I believe that people care more about things that affect them personally. If you put more people into the circle affected, you’ll have more people who care. We should all spend time on the Southern Border to see first-hand what’s going on down there. We should also spend some time cleaning up areas hit by disasters, to better understand what the people are going thru. We need to quit talking AT each other and start talking TO each other. That requires that we some time shut up and just listen, but there’s not too much of that going on in this day and age.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:21 pm
Hillbilly
On subsidies…two of my nieces were sent on their “grand tour” courtesy of their folks not planting certain crops…it just don’t seem right to me…a small farmer, yes, but when you’re talking thousands of acres, I think not…
Scout
May 30th, 2010
7:23 pm
josef:
True ……… and that probably doesn’t take into consideration those others with “Indian blood”.
“Chief Falling Cloud”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKDLQWEvubc
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:25 pm
Evenin’ SoCo–
Don’t worry about your corn squeezings! We gotta keep our priorities straight…
As for your compulsory service…you know I’m in your corner on that one…we owe this country something for all it gives us and I can’t think of a better way to put a sense of civic duty back into our population…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:31 pm
Scout
He was much on our minds here today, and so too
http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2915
And as for those with Indian blood but no CDIB card…a forgotten people forced to “vanish…”
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
7:33 pm
Terrific Gwinnett Daily Post piece about this weekend’s memorial service for two veterans who had slipped through the cracks.
In one box lay the cremains of U.S. Army PFC-E3 Lonnie Brown Jr., age 76 upon his September 1995 death. He served for three years until his honorable discharge in January 1946.
In the other, U.S. Army Cpl.-E4 Milton Carter Jr., age 50 when he died in 1998. He’d served about two years, separating honorably in August 1963.
What matters this day is that they served America, each of them in their 20s, in a bygone time before they slipped through society’s cracks. A two-person team in Buford, part of the national Missing in America Project, has worked to prove this, and now to honor the men with a flag-bedecked cavalcade across metro Atlanta’s outermost reaches.
The soldiers are the 11th and 12th veterans to be interred in Canton by project leaders. who started looking just six months ago, after reading an article about said funeral home going under. Their motto: “It’s the Right Thing To Do.”
All of the veterans are unclaimed, which means their families do not know they’re dead, do not care or have vanished, like the veterans themselves. Until now.
“There are people all over the country just sitting on shelves — some stored in paint cans, some in just plastic bags,” said Guy Webb, the project’s coordinator in Georgia and the American Legion’s sergeant at arms. “They earned this ceremony, this right, the day they got their honorable discharge.”
Southern Comfort
May 30th, 2010
7:33 pm
josef
I’m the same way. After hearing story after story about other countries, I believe that more people should put forth an effort, other than lip service, to keeping this country going. I also think it goes far beyond just military service too. If you have skills in finance, work with the CBO or something. I think we should all do something. Do you really think those who were hiding millions in Swiss banks really appreciate where they live? It’s things like that which causes me to stop and think about other people’s true patriotism. Your son and my nephew, amongst many others, are laying their life and limbs on the line so that we can enjoy all this country offers. I think the least we can do to honor them and all veterans is to put forth some effort on keeping our freedoms and open society as free and open as possible.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
7:35 pm
Oh, and J-Nix, I am not ignoring your reply to me @ 4.23, I will look into the Dawes Commission rolls per your suggestion–it’s just a weightier topic than I’m prepared to discuss at the moment, is all.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
7:36 pm
SoCo
Anybody who’s ever started a fire with a pine knot or rich pine (fat lighter to some folks), knows how flammable pine can be. The Japanese made a gasoline substitue from pine in WWII, as they were running out of oil supplies. Used it to fly Zeroes if I’m not mistaken. The Germans supplied some of their needs by coal gasification.
Josef
That program sort of rings a bell but I don’t know if I watched it or not.
And I once knew a person who got paid not to plant corn on land that they were using for a cow pasture. They didn’t have cows on it while they were being paid; they had rotated them to another pasture to let the grass recover. As soon as the deadline passed on the subsidy, they moved the cows back on it. So in reality, they got paid for not growing corn on land they would never have grown corn on, anyway. They used the land just as they normally would have but they figured out how to get a check for their trouble.
I’d like to see people weaned off farm subsidies but that will take time, too. I’d say start the weaning with the big boys and work our way down.
stands for decibels
May 30th, 2010
7:40 pm
SoCo, I too would like to see more of our populace doing public service. Not sure if it’s the right thing to make it compulsary (I might be swayed on that).
Also, I’ve been meaning to post this, as I try to remember to do as we commemorate the fallen. It is a prayer that Eleanor Roosevelt kept with her throughout WWII. As I sign off, I’ll leave you Bookmaniacs with those words that I’ve always tried to remember, myself:
Dear Lord,
Lest I continue
My complacent way,
Help me to remember that somewhere,
Somehow out there
A man died for me today.
As long as there be war,
I then must
Ask and answer
Am I worth dying for?
Scout
May 30th, 2010
7:40 pm
I am 63 now …………… and I still consider the best friends I ever had in life as 19.
In my mind they are forever young ………………..
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
7:44 pm
Stands for…
You’re right that it’s far too complex to go into in a forum such as this…when Jay the other day made the comment that, and I paraphrase here, Indian “things” just aren’t that much of an issue in these parts, it was something of a slap in the face in this house, a wake-up call of a sorts on just how little even well educated people know of the Indians and their contribution to and participation in American society. Indians by and large “don’t raise a stink,” it’s not the Indian way, and because they don’t they are not considred beyond an occasional, “oh, yeah, now that you mention it…”
Georgia stands poised to be the first state to elect an enrolled tribal member as governor, and I have yet to see that brought up…once they achieve success, well, they’re just not Indian any more…it goes to what Scout says about those with Indian blood…
I know it’s one of my bones to gnaw on, but still and all….
TaxPayer
May 30th, 2010
7:50 pm
Seems like those folks at BP could just as easily get some pipe and a pump installed on that well and just start pumping that oil out into tankers and then let the tankers go to the nearest port and unload and lather, rinse, repeat. Then again, if they got stuck in a hurricane and spilled their cargo, why, that would just be terrible! It could be the worst oil spill to ever hit the US! Then, the poor folks carrying the oil in the tankers would get blamed for spilling the stuff and the people operating the pipes and pumps would be liable and none of them would be able to get the most basic insurance coverage due to pre-existing conditions and, well, then the cases of folks in barely related industries being rescinded would start pouring in and folks would be calling on the government to do something… anything… but what can they do. What should they do. After all, it’s a free market and the government needs to keep its nose out of it. Right! Am I right!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
7:53 pm
Georgia stands poised to be the first state to elect an enrolled tribal member as governor,
A serious question. If you stopped 100 random people on the street, how many do you think would have ever even heard of the Lumbee (unless you were in NC)? Not many would be my guess. I think somewhere in a kid’s schooling they should at least hear the name of the 100 or so biggest tribes. My guess is I might have heard 10, maybe, at school.
A Toast
May 30th, 2010
7:56 pm
A toast to Joe McCarthy: A Great American.
On Memorial Day, it is fitting and proper that we give honor to those who gave their last full measure of devotion. As we salute our fallen heroes, we are reminded that war should always be a last resort. One of our most celebrated warriors was Robert E Lee. His worst moment came at Fredericksburg, when he noted that it is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it. Those words do a disservice to those who mourn casualties. No humane person could ever be fond of war. War forever should be a Last Resort.
Vietnam was not a war of last resort. Ike’s warning about how capitalism can default to war was fresh in our ears during The Gulf of Tonkin incident. I was thirteen and I smelled that rat. One radar operator on one destroyer thought he saw a blip? Fishing boats were out there…….fishing. I even think there was rough seas that day, so it could have just been a wave. The first casualty in war is truth.
The first sophisticated utterance from the baby boomers at 60’s pot parties was about the Domino Theory. First, it was cool to explain the theory, and suggest that the Vietnam war was justified based on the theory. Then, after a while, other stoners would start shouting the theory down. It died a quick death. The Domino Theory has never been relevant in any geo-political clash. It’s a fairy tale from the munitions industry. It also has never been replaced. “If not the Domino, then why are we fighting this war”, someone would venture at pot parties. “To fight communism”? No, because then we’d have to invade both China and Russia, if we were serious about the commie threat.
Believe it or not, that two-front invasion is exactly what the some powerful Americans in high places were proposing. Paranoid Delusions and outright disinformation led to wild strategic offensive contingency plans by the secret powers behind Tail Gunner Joe.
McCarthy was right, by the way. McCarthy was a great American, who probably saved the world. It was a fact that there were spies everywhere. Soviet Spies! And when Joe McCarthy was discredited, the commie spies had a golden age to spy freely because nobody in government had the heart to challenge anybody over anything suspicious. The political price was too high.
However, that turns out to have been the best thing that could have happened. If not for the reliable and reassuring reports from Soviet spies during the Cuban Missile Crisis and during the radar anomalies that sent Russia into a launch mode every now and then, the Soviets surely would have launched those missiles at us. It’s only because the Soviets had reliable spies in our own high places that they were able to stand down from their red alert status and control their impulse to press the button. If Vietnam could be started over a wave’s signature on radar, then Cold War could end in a nuclear holocaust over an unexplained blip on the radar.
So this memorial day I toast veteran Joe McCarthy: A Great American.
Del
May 30th, 2010
8:00 pm
josef,
Misadventures, not a good word for those who fought and died. It demeans their service to the country who sent them there. Believe me the Russians, ChiComs and North Vietnamese all learned with extreme concern that our infantry with a decentralized, operationally designed doctrine was far more effective than their centralized command structure. They haven’t been able to emulate it. The best at it? well you can search the late Army Col. David Hackworth who discussed and praised the United States Marine Corps’s philosophy that every Marine regardless of MOS or rank is a basic infantry riflemen.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:07 pm
Hillbilly
The curriculum gives a lesson on the Removal, and there only the Cherokee, the fact that the very name, The Trail of Tears, is from the Choctaw experience. A brief snippet on the WWII code talkers, then nada until the plains genocide, then nada again until Wounded Knee, Part II. As for the Lumbee, when I first brought them up, I was not surprized to find no small few of our more liberal and “educated” posters hereabouts posting in a “do tell…”
One of my greatest honors was when I was asked by a group of Indians and Mixed Bloods to design for them a course in American history from the Indian (specifically Choctaw and Chickasaw) perspective…the focus was on the “great events” of the American story common to us all and how they played out in Indian country and not from the point of view of “what it did TO the Indians but how the Indians participated AS Americans…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:09 pm
DEL
The misadventures refers to the Iraq-Afghanistan situation and to the politico-economic rationale motivating the actions…not in the least to those serving…my boy is one of those…
Del
May 30th, 2010
8:12 pm
josef,
God hold and keep your son safe.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:15 pm
Hillbilly
Oops…put the code talkers between the plains genocide and the Wounded Knee… ouch on the time lining there….
BTW–
Charles Kurtis is not even mentioned in the curriculm nor is the Indian Citizenship Act…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
May 30th, 2010
8:19 pm
Maybe obozo could lower the seas, like he said he would, and we could back a concrete truck up to this gusher, just wondering…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:20 pm
Del
Thank you. He’s back stateside now…served in Bosnia, Kossovo, Iraq (Shock and Awe and another tour) then a tour in Afghanistan…don’t get HIM started on DADT!
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:21 pm
Josef nix
i visited Pine Ridge a few years ago. Learned a lot about Wounded Knee. Also learned that about half of what has been told is wrong or exaggerated.
i became a huge fan of Red Cloud and found his Seventh Generation Prophecies both as coming true and extremely troubling.
theeyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
8:27 pm
josef, I have used the old skim and scan to get moderately caught up here. I could not help but see exchanges by Bada, Saul and you. Just a few thoughts here. First of all, I would not get too concerned about Bada. He strikes me as what is known elsewhere in the blogoshere as a “troll”. I certain that you and others have noted that he has neither the intellect nor the maturity to say anything of substance here. Accordingly, I would treat him just as we Andy. Secondly, I have tried to find quotation attributed to Ben Franklin without any success. But old Ben once said something like “Patriotism is a fine and noble thing like an eagle soaring above a mountain; but jingoism is mean and ignoble like a crow atop a dung heap.” Something like that. I took poetic license in light of Google’s failings. Third, my god do we much in common. Some day, just ask me. But my status on the Census seems to change every 20 years or so. Like the government cannot figure out what to think of me. Just a hint…my paternal grandmother used to tell my grandfather, “Don’t you argue with me, viejo, my grandmother was a full-blooded Comanche.”
And for Bada..:-)
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:28 pm
Bugatti
Glad to know you went to Wounded Knee and learned from them there…the Southeastern experience is not cut from the same cloth…here’s my own hero
http://anpa.ualr.edu/trail_of_tears/indian_removal_project/letters/1831DecemberGeorgeWHarkinstotheAmericanPeople.htm
Should be, in my opinion, required reading in all American History courses…
theeyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
8:31 pm
josef, by the way, did you see Spielberg’s TV series on TNT called “Into The West”?
A Toast
May 30th, 2010
8:32 pm
A Memorial remembrance for my Uncle, who died in a B24 over Italy in 1944. He was pulling in extra duty so he could go to my mother’s graduation. He was volunteering for flights he didn’t have to be on. He was a bombardier, and a good one. His plane was hit by flak, and he was the only crew member who didn’t make it out. Back in Detroit, my grandmother got the news about her son on the very day my mother graduated from high school. Grandmother still held the graduation party for my mother. She insisted on it. It held her together. After it was over, my grandmother went into mourning. My grandfather smashed all the furniture in the dining room in a fit of rage. He was never the same and it also marked the beginning of the end of his marriage. His life dissolved in alcohol. My grandmother often recalled how her son had promised that after the war, he would buy her a red convertible and they would tour the country together in it. He played the violin very well, and would entertain at parties.
A toast to my uncle, who I never met, but I knew him through my mom and grandmom.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
8:37 pm
Josef
Believe it or not, sounds like they may teach a little more now than they did back in my day.
And by the way, I found an arrowhead in the garden the other day. Still find one every two or three years. My Grandpa used to find one or two a year but that was a long time ago and he was tending a lot bigger area.
From the size of it, I would guess it was for deer. That’s usually the size but I have found a couple that were about half that size. They were for small game, I would assume.
Del
May 30th, 2010
8:44 pm
A Toast,
I can relate to your loss somewhat. My Uncle who I can’t remember either was a bombardier navigator who died in 1944 coming back from an otherwise successful bombing mission when two ships in the squadron collided over the English Channel, his being one. His body was found washed up on the beach. Only one crew member survive, the tail gunner.
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:46 pm
theeyeshaveit
I saw Bada offer some pretty good ideas about how to fix the oil spill problem. For that he was attacked over and over. No one else was offering anything, but he was.
He said one thing that could have been considered offensive and that was that he thought smiley faces were gay. That’s a term, like it or not, that has been used in hundreds of movies and is pretty common to hear in normal conversation.
A troll is someone who comes onto a forum or blog and is there to offer no logical discussion and is there only to disrupt any civil discussion that might be going on. I didn’t see him doing that. I did, however see that being done to him over and over and slamming every idea that he offered. I’m amazed that he was able to be as civil as he was.
Sometimes i feel that you guys just set and wait until someone says the wrong thing so you can hammer him. This doesn’t do much for the blog or the exchange of ideas here.
It really doesn’t matter if someone is offering civil discussion here. If they are a conservative, they can expect troll like attacks over and over until they are gone. There are a few here that will offer a counterpoint or even question an idea, but it is more likely than not if the conservative is making strong and valid points that they will be continually attacked and more often than not, incessantly lectured about what they should or shouldn’t say.
You tend to be one of the ones that will offer a counterpoint, even though you do like to lecture. Some like Kamchak and a few that come on as a slew of different names are true trolls. they never offer any sort of logical discussion and they will hammer and hammer until someone either leaves or someone engages their viewpoint.
My point is that Bada was offering civil discussion but was being attacked for it, as per usual, on this blog.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:48 pm
eyes
A Cherokee singing an Apache song for your Comanche soul sent to you from a Choctaw-Cherokee..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I31Ic697pQk&feature=related
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
8:52 pm
josef nix
Are you familiar with the 7th generation Prophecies? It was part of the Ghost Dance that resulted in the deaths at Wounded Knee. In fact, it resulted in lots of deaths of both settlers and Oglala.
TnGelding
May 30th, 2010
8:52 pm
Mother Nature is reminding us not to forget her on this Memorial Day.
Hats off and a big salute to those that were sacrificed by clueless politicians. And an apology from the spineless cowards that continue to let them do it, myself included.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
8:56 pm
eyes
didn’t see the Spielberg…need to…
Hillbilly
Good old benighted Mississippi always did a pretty good job of bringint the Indian aspect into our history classes…kinda hard not to when so many of the major figures in the state were Indians…a lot of people don’t know it, but a third of the Choctaw nation took advantage of Article 14 permitting them to stay east of the river and become United States citizens…current governor Haley Barbour is himself a descendent of Greenwood Leflore…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
9:01 pm
Bugatti
I am familiar with them in passing.
Scout
May 30th, 2010
9:01 pm
Del:
“Why in hell can’t the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can’t they be like Marines”.
Gen. John J. “Black Jack” Pershing, US Army; 12 February 1918
“I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!”
General of the Armies Douglas MacArthur; Korea, 21 September 1950
“We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?”
Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., US Army, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff
during the assault on Grenada, 1983
“The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.”
Gen. John “Black Jack” Pershing, U.S. Army
Commander of American Forces in World War I
bugatti
May 30th, 2010
9:12 pm
josef nix
You understand that you are part of that Prophecy.
As you probably know, Red Cloud was not a warrior, he was a shaman. He dreamed that all Indians outside his sphere (The Oglala Sioux believed that most Western Tribes were their brothers, but other tribes were from a different celestial mother.) would take the wealth back from the White man and that would happen 7 generation from his death. You are that generation.
And it was your generation that started to establish casinos on the reservations. Of course, most Western Tribes were under different treaties. The Sioux still lives under the Laramie treaty of (I think) 1872. That restricts them from having any commercial enterprise on their reservation. That same kind of treaty applies to most western tribes.
i just thought that you might want to know that Red Cloud saw you coming.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
9:30 pm
Bugatti…
I’m not an Indian…just have shared beads and blankets with one..
One two many
May 30th, 2010
9:42 pm
I was beaten up and thrown out of an Indian Gambling Casino once for counting coup.
Native of the Americas
May 30th, 2010
9:50 pm
I’m a descendant of Native American Indians (as opposed to those non-Native to the Americas Indians) so that must make me as much, or likely more, a part of a tribe as a Lumbee. What is their latest attempt at getting Federal recognition, er, strike that, I mean Federal money? What was that. The Cheraw. Uh huh. And that crock, the Ox, that is running for Georgia Governor looks like he has more Irish blood than anything.
walker
May 30th, 2010
9:55 pm
Chuck Norris says that BP was laying pipe wrong. And Chuck knows a thing or two about laying pipe, if you know what I mean. Wink wink.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
9:58 pm
bugatti, you are a gentleman. You know, the Gov’t should hold a contest with a large cash prize given to the person who comes up with an idea to stop the leak. Why not? The experts(?) can not do it. Pick up the phone, give us a call.
BarackPetroleum Prize Claims Dept
May 30th, 2010
10:03 pm
the Gov’t should hold a contest with a large cash prize given to the person who comes up with an idea to stop the leak.
The entry deadline is August 15, 2010.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:05 pm
Native
And, Sir or Ma’am. may I see your CDIB card? The Cheraw and the Lumbee are two distinct groups. At least, though, you do have some concept of what’s at work here or you wouldn’t be making the snip-a33 comments you made…
One Two Many
Don’t go messin’ with them buffalo chips…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:06 pm
BADA BING
A contest? Said in jest, but there’s a great deal to recommend it…
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
10:07 pm
Act now, fix the leak and get this added extra prize…….
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
10:11 pm
Nix, my hat is off to a Native American. I travel to Latin America often and see indiginous native groups. The Inca in Peru, the Maya in Central America, Amazon natives on the Amazon River. Kings of their domain. I admire their pride and their work ethic.
Native of the Americas
May 30th, 2010
10:19 pm
josef, the non-native of the American Indians,
Perhaps you should try to stay abreast of the attempts taken by these so-called Lumbees for Federal funding/recognition. Their latest claim is that they are descended from the Cheraws. At least you do give some indication that you are somewhat familiar with a few names though. For that you get a polite golf clap.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:19 pm
Unmentionable says to tell y’all thanks for talking about Indians for a change. It sort of takes the sting out of the Bruin’s slap the other day…
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
10:20 pm
Stretch large bladders on the open pipe (think large water balloons). When they are full, float them to the surface and load on tankers with large nets that will not puncture the bladders. Install next bladder and repeat. This idea is as good as the ‘Top kill’.
Sinka de Maya
May 30th, 2010
10:21 pm
Bada Boing,
Your calendar is ready.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:23 pm
Native
I am familiar with the hooplah over the Lumbee…goes back to Virginia Dare…I think what it boils down to is that they have done well enough in the mainstream to present a case that many find uncomfortable. The Cheraw case is an intriguing one as well, considering that they have yet to sign a treaty with the feds…messy can of worms to open…
Not being snarky at all here…but are you enrolled?
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:27 pm
BADA BING
Bladders? There’s something there…would it work? I’m no engineer…sounds logical to me…I mean, who’d've thought golf balls…
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
10:44 pm
Attach a huge , thick, rubber bladder to the mouth of the pipe. As the oil flows into the bladder, pressure builds. There is around 15,000 lbs. of water pressure at that depth. When the pressure inside the bladder is equal to the sea pressure, the oil will stop flowing. It is a stopgap method until the relief wells can be drilled. I have no training, why can’t the experts do better?
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
10:47 pm
Josef
I’m not an engineer either but there might be a problem with bladders and pressure. If there is enough oil in the bladder at the one mile depth to withstand the pressure of the sea, as it rises it might burst as it rises and sea water pressure decreases. The pressure in the bladder would increase relative to the pressure of the water, I would think. Don’t know that for a fact; just a question I’d ask if I was in the brainstorming session. I might also ask if that was a problem, is there a way to release some of the pressure as it rises without releasing the oil.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
10:53 pm
You are correct about the pressure increasing as it rises. Leave a lot of room for expansion. That would be the biggest problem. Doing nothing is a bigger problem.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
10:54 pm
Hillbilly and Bada Bing–
Wow! Ask for details! G-d, I admire the h3ll out of brains like y’all’s…and I mean that sincerely..,
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
10:56 pm
Bada
Well as it is now, I’d keep throwing things at the wall until something sticks.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:00 pm
Hillbilly
As the old folks say, “nothing beats a failure but a try.”
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
11:02 pm
They will not stop it until they can install a valve or hose connections on that jagged, broken pipe. The robotic drone should drill a series of smaller holes, tapped for screwing in some valves or pipe connections. As the oil flows through the many new holes, the flow will decrease at the broken mouth. It can then be sealed in some manner, (welded, capped). when the mouth is sealed, the newly installed, smaller valves could be closed one at a time to seal it completely.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
11:14 pm
Josef
I’ve read a little bit about the Russians having this problem before and setting off a “small” nuclear device to stop it. Bigger than what we dropped in WWII, by the way. I don’t know but I would think this would involve drilling and detonating under the sea bed. Don’t know that I’d want to do that but I hope somebody has at least been talking to the Russians about it.
I think the idea of building artificial barrier islands has merit. I would imagine that would create some unintended ecological problems down the road but not as bad as letting the oil into the marshes. From what I understand, Bobby Jindal and others, have been begging to do this for a couple weeks but the EPA is doing a study or something. I’d say make an exception and study it as you go.
My fear is that this is going to wind up being the death of what’s left of the seafood industry in the Gulf. Eventually they’ll get the leak stopped, and maybe even cleaned up, but by then, most of those people will be out of business.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
11:15 pm
The most important thing to do now, is to send every underwater robot that the Navy and private firms have, to the area. The pipe has to be cut off straight and tapped, so that something can be attached to stem the flow. They have nothing on that jagged pipe to work with. A screw on valve can be attached after tapping the pipe. Come on people, try something simple. KISS….keep it simple stupid.
theeyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
11:20 pm
Bada, hmmm. I do not know where my mind is going, but the imagery is there….bladder fitting snugly over a pipe to stop its flow…hmmm…..With all the terminology we have been learning from the folks at BP to date, perhaps, your approach can be aptly named the Condom,.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
11:25 pm
Hire Master Plumbers to devise a plan. I know that the distance and depth make it more difficult, but basic plumbing can be used to stop the leak. Tools and equipment will have to be strong enough to take the pressure, but it should be the same procedure as fixing a leaky pipe in your home.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
11:29 pm
the eye shave it, good name for the bladder.
BADA BING
May 30th, 2010
11:31 pm
We can use it to keep BP from screwing the country.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 30th, 2010
11:31 pm
This may be a dumb question but does anybody know the diameter of the broken pipe we’re talking about?
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
11:32 pm
theeyeshaveit
May 30th, 2010
8:27 pm
I’d be inclined to say you took quite a good bit of liberty in using your poetic license concerning old Ben Franklin views in respect to Americanism and jingoism:
Franklin expressed his opposition toward German immigrants, whom he ridiculed:
“why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements and, by herding together, establish their Language and Manners, to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Angli-fying them .. .?”
You’ll find the writings of Jefferson and Adams concerning assimilation and use of the English language no less – as you would say – jingoist.
PS. Josef, Choctaw are Muskogee like the Creek. We probably share direct ancestral ties.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:34 pm
As much as I’m looking forward to being able to stay up and chat with the late night crew. I’m still not yet on summer schedule and am fading fast…besides, did have grandboys over this weekened and all three of them at one time…well…a blessing, but a draining one…I’m an old f*rt now…
and, Native, I’ve got a vague idea of who you are as a regular, but our exchange is one I’d like to continue at some juncture in the future. I’m interested in what you have to say….
Hillbilly and Bada Bing…am looking forward to catching up with y’all’s exchange in the a.m.
eyes–
oh, yes, it would appear that we have a lot in common…
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:37 pm
Michael
I’m glad to see you here. Last year at D-Day you made a post that has stuck with me as something that I respected and admired greatly…if you know how, I would greatly appreciate you reposting it.
josef nix
May 30th, 2010
11:41 pm
PS to Michael…
I have no Indian blood…my ties there are via Unmentionable and our young’uns…
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
11:56 pm
Someone mentioned the Electric car earlier and wanted to know whatever happened to it?
You can find the entire documentary on Who Killed the Electric Car at YouTube.
The EV-1 should never have died.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Mpe7XfODk
What you were talking about, using electric cars, is being done in Israel presently. For America a slightly different approach would be better at the beginning for a number of reasons. However, no question that going to hybrid electric cars is a very viable alternative, even with the present electric grid and electric generating capacity. To go completely to total electric cars, America will have take make some hard choices, like accepting more nuclear power plants or natural gas fired power plants(which means drill baby, drill). Solar and wind just won’t get us the amounts of electrical power we will need to do the job of using total electric cars on a very large scale presently.
Michael H. Smith
May 30th, 2010
11:57 pm
My bad josef.
BADA BING
May 31st, 2010
12:26 am
Float a new drilling rig over the leaking pipe. Cut off the pipe, or blow it off with explosives, if there is an elbow installed, until you have just the original pipe straight down to the oil under the sea floor. Install a smaller pipe, length by length, straight down the original pipe. This will be fast because nothing needs to be drilled, you are inside a larger pipe. pressure will be no problem because the smaller pipe is still open. Once you reach the bottom, the oil will come up the smaller pipe, and then you seal it off on the drilling rig the same way as is currently done. You now have control of the leak.
Michael H. Smith
May 31st, 2010
12:31 am
josef, doubt I can remember a verbatim account but I think what you are getting at is the ridiculous policy of don’t ask don’t tell and how many gays have died for the freedoms of straight people. Being a conservative and straight doesn’t require me or any other conservative to be an idiot and think homosexuality will go away if I hate it enough and make life unreasonable hard for anyone who is gay by denying them everything humanly possible.
Thank you gay veterans for your service to our country and for my freedom to speak with liberty.
theeyeshaveit
May 31st, 2010
1:02 am
Michael Smith, BRAVO!!
BADA BING
May 31st, 2010
10:11 am
To expand on my earlier blog from last night. There is already a drilled, lined pipe from the sea bed to the oil resevoir. The new platform would just connect the new smaller pipe piece by piece and insert it into the existing pipe (think of inserting a drinking straw down a larger straw). Where the pipes connect (let’s say the pipes are 100-200 feet long) there would be a joint a little larger than the new pipe. As the pipe is inserted, the joints will provide a sealing effect, as more and more pipe is connected (think piston rings). Oil and gas pressure will be minimal because the new pipe is still open, the flow will go with the path of least resistance. The new pipe will be lubricated by the oil as it is inserted. At that depth, the oil will be extremely thick and would soon provide a seal around the new pipe and joints. When the smaller pipe reaches the resevoir, the last pipe would be tapped and a large screw on valve would be attached and closed. Hell, they could propably still use it as an oil well and not have to abandon it. Business as usual. Any engineers, mechanics, plumbers out there? Would it work?
BADA BING
May 31st, 2010
10:19 am
This would be extremely fast because no drilling is necessary. There is probably an oil rig available in the area that could be floated there, or BP could close down a nearby working rig for this emergency. I don’t care what it may cost them. IT must happen fast, round the clock workers if necessary, or it will leak thru June, July, and into August. The oil will foul all of the Gulf down to South America, Florida, Mexico, and the Caribbean islands.
Eli Jones
June 1st, 2010
3:15 pm
“Only 16 Percent Approve of Obama’s Handling of “The Obamaspill” /// ZOGBY SURVEY
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Positive opinion about Obama’s government’s handling of BP’s Gulf of Mexico oil spill is down 13 points from two weeks ago, dropping from 29 percent to 16 percent, a new Zogby Interactive survey finds.
Currently, only 16 percent rate Obama’s government’s response to The Obamaspill as excellent or good. The same question in a May 7-10 Zogby Interactive survey found 29 percent giving a positive rating. Opinion of BP’s handling of the spill is also down from the previous poll, going from positive ratings of 25 percent then to just 15 percent now.
The Zogby survey of 2,085 adults was conducted from May 25-27
Almost 60 percent agreed with the assessment that The Obamaspill is “a disaster that will cause long-term environmental and economic damage.”