State lacks leaders with vision of ‘the next Georgia’
Once-backward Vietnam, a land of rice paddies and thatched huts, is building a 1,000-mile high-speed rail line from Hanoi south to Ho Chi Minh City.
Meanwhile, Georgia can’t muster the will to build an ordinary, 26-mile passenger line from Atlanta to Lovejoy, even though $87 million in federal money was set aside last century to build the project.
That’s because, for most of that decade, Georgia has been drifting aimlessly, without direction or leadership. And even with a wholesale change in statewide elections scheduled for this fall, that doesn’t seem likely to change. Our political leaders seem far more intent on ganging up on some immigrant college kid than in getting this state out of its doldrums.
That’s too bad. Every Georgian is a beneficiary of dreamers and doers who have dared to seize the initiative. Many of those leaders, from Robert Woodruff through Ted Turner and Billy Payne, have been entrepreneurs and leaders from the private sector. But leaders of equal vision and daring have emerged from the public side.
In 1836, Alexander Stephens — who later became vice president of the Confederacy — helped convince legislators to fund the Western and Atlantic Railroad. They had to tax everyone from plantation owners to poor dirt farmers to raise the money, but that state-built railroad paid off handsomely by creating what became Atlanta.
Beginning in the ’20s, Atlanta Mayor William Hartsfield drove creation of an airport that is now the busiest on the planet, a public investment that gave this region its identity as a business and aviation center.
The ports in Savannah and Brunswick, also among the busiest in the nation, would not exist without public investment, nor would the jobs they bring. And the investments haven’t been limited to physical infrastructure. Govs. Ellis Arnall in the ’40s and Zell Miller in the ’90s focused the state’s resources on improving education, with measurable impacts on economic development and opportunity in the state.
In each of those examples, elected leaders understood that government is a legitimate and even necessary tool for making the lives of Georgians better. Today’s politicians, in contrast, compete on how vigorously they can reject any notion that government might possibly be of some assistance in building the next Georgia.
It’s still a little early in the process, but the absence of vision or mission among the candidates is striking.
Admittedly, these are difficult times in which to pitch a dream. But they are also the kind of times in which dreams are most necessary.
For example, real estate professionals agree that the auto-based, suburban growth mode that once drove the metro Atlanta economy is now as outdated as a Hummer.
That doesn’t mean that existing communities built along traditional suburban lines will falter, only that new growth will center on more dense, walkable neighborhoods in which rail becomes a viable transportation alternative. Around the country, that revised development model is being driven not by government dictate but by the market and demographics. There’s no serious doubt in the industry about the staying power of that change.
The next Georgia needs to take advantage of that market change or be left standing alone at the train station, so to speak.
This week, the Washington-based Brookings Institution released a study of the cost, impact and feasibility of a passenger rail line linking Atlanta with Macon. According to the study, commissioned by Georgians for Passenger Rail, building a 103-mile line with five stops between Macon and Atlanta would cost $400 million, with operating costs of $25 million.
The study also adds its voice to a chorus singing a familiar song: While we’ve drifted, other regions — Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Denver — have seized the initiative by making transit investments and are ready to benefit as the economy rebounds.
“Not investing in rail transit today would be akin to not investing in the highway system in the 1960s and 1970s,” the study warns.
In an era of tight budgets, $400 million can sound like a lot. Yet states and regions that once looked at Georgia with envy are producing leaders with foresight who are capable of overcoming such challenges.
Here at home, though, even politicians who understand the opportunity that we’re missing are too meek give that knowledge voice.
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187 comments Add your comment
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
7:45 am
“That doesn’t mean that existing communities built along traditional suburban lines will falter, only that new growth will center on more dense, walkable neighborhoods in which rail becomes a viable transportation alternative”
nah – Georgians would rather b*tch and moan about $4/gal gas than actually, you know, DO anything about it …
drill,baby,drill!!!
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
7:47 am
Wow! A study funded by people who want rail shows that rail is the answer.
Just like studies on climate change funded by governments show more government intervention on climate change is the answer.
Who woulda thunk it?
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
7:49 am
Second! Darn you, USinUK!
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
7:50 am
sorry, dave … chalk it up to the 5-hour jump I have on you
Dave R.
May 28th, 2010
7:51 am
And we already have “dense neighborhoods”. We call them “liberal enclaves” here.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
7:52 am
Jay must have got stuck in a traffic jam this morning.
Stupid Love Joyians.
Rev. Al Sharptongue
May 28th, 2010
7:55 am
The issue is that Ga politics are still stuck in the 50’s. Its easy to get elected arguing the same issues while the rest of America passes us by.
When you have people in the majority who identify themselves as conservative and love the past. you can never have a forward thinking agenda.
The good ole boy network is alive and well
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
7:57 am
7 posts and we already have Al spewing his hatred for the “good ole boys”. Great way to start a Friday!
Jay
May 28th, 2010
7:59 am
Having driven south on I-75 a couple of times recently at rush hour, I bet a lot of those folks would be eager for another option. Anybody here make that commute regularly?
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
8:01 am
“Anybody here make that commute regularly?”
I live in Athens and try to avoid Atlanta at all costs. The only time I go anywhere near Atlanta is I-285 south to I-85 to Biloxi.
Gale
May 28th, 2010
8:03 am
I think there are two problems holding us back. People who don’t want a rail line built through a thriving (or not) community. Politicians and developers trying to be sure they have a lock on property deals so they get mega profit when the rail line finally does go forward.
Gale
May 28th, 2010
8:05 am
I do know the road south anytime is congested, so much so that it is foolish to try to jump start a Florida trip on Friday afternoons.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:08 am
“Great way to start a Friday!”
you’re right, P … the BEST way to start a friday is …
HAPPY THREE-DAY WEEKEND, EVERYONE!!!
Mick
May 28th, 2010
8:08 am
Liberals, unions and gov’t – that is whole of conservative blame cycle, however, the reality is that those three built america into the greatest middle class during the 1950-1980. As soon as people started buying into the postulate that “gov’t is the problem”, 1980-2010, the country has been in a freefall of decline.
jconservative
May 28th, 2010
8:10 am
Actually it is worse than Goodman is telling you. It is not just Georgia but the whole country. There is a big vacuum on the planet for production of rapid rail systems. Some US cities are building the systems. Some countries are building the systems. How much of the hardware and software for those systems are being built in the USA?
None! See China, France and Germany.
China is eating our cake and we are are obsessed with gays in the military, obese children and unemployment.
Speaking of unemployed people, how many unemployed people does it take to build a 26 mile rail system from Atlanta to Lovejoy?
RB from Gwinnett
May 28th, 2010
8:10 am
The state also lacks a decent newspaper in it’s largest city.
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
8:10 am
“HAPPY THREE-DAY WEEKEND, EVERYONE!!!”
That’s more like it. Plus, Monday is mine and my wife’s 2 year anniversary.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
May 28th, 2010
8:11 am
Well, I’d rather haul the beer in a wheelbarrow than pay a penny to let a bunch of libruls and Those People ride a train north and south from Atlanta. I’m like most folks around here. If there’s nothing in it for me, I don’t want any part of it. And I don’t want trains bringing Crime up here to Forsyth County. We like what we got just fine—a few shootings once in a while at a beer joint or maybe some good old boy locked up for stealing taxpayer money, but all our flatscreen TVs are still on the wall and you can travel for miles without seeing a black face.
Anyhow, it’s Friday again and I’m a-hauling and getting ready so folks can wet their whistle and trade weird music tonight. Have a good day everybody. And you folks waiting around for us to pay for your train will have a beard down to your ankle at the old folks home before it happens.
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
8:11 am
I’ve ridden Amtrak from ATL to New Orleans…..slow (13 hours) and uncomfortable. I’ve also ridden hi-speed rail (Madrid to Seville). Fast and comfortable. So the real question is: Will commuters pay enough to make it viable? Seems that someone could have answered that question in less than 10 years.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:12 am
Peadawg – well done, you!!! happy anniversary – I hope you have a lovely time celebrating!
Gale
May 28th, 2010
8:12 am
If GA had actually done some planning over the last decade, we would have been in a position to claim some of that stimulus money for a rail system; less unemployment, more revenue, fewer foreclosures. It is all in the planning, but we keep electing self servers instead of public servants.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:12 am
let’s face it … you don’t want RAIL … it’s too darned EUROPEAN (and we all know what that REALLY means) …
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:13 am
Gale – 8:12 – well said.
Gale
May 28th, 2010
8:15 am
N-GA Question on that “hi-speed rail (Madrid to Seville)”. How many stops along the way?
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
8:15 am
Taking the train is good enough for the multi-millionaires that live in Greenwich CT or Bedford NY into NYC everyday. It’s good enough for the wealthy that live outside of Boston and Washington DC… yet Atlanta will never come out of the dark ages as long as it continues to put republicans in office who FEAR that rail will also send “minorities” into their white-bread communities. It’s the very reason why MARTA never made it all the way to Windward. My own father (who was a successful banker) took the train from LI into NYC for over 30 years… he was actually was annoyed whenever he had to drive in. Those who think that 60+ minute commutes to go 20-25 miles is normal or just part of life need to realize that it’s NOT normal. The same ones who shout “drill baby drill” because they don’t want us dealing with terrorist regimes are the same one’s who never admit the truth…that we can WAY more oil by getting out of our cars and onto mass transit. Maybe they can use the “time” to read some books…. (and I don’t mean the comic and coloring books put out by Newt, Sean, Bill O, and Rush)… commuting via mass transit is WAY more productive as well.
Rev. Al Sharptongue
May 28th, 2010
8:18 am
Speaking of unemployed people, how many unemployed people does it take to build a 26 mile rail system from Atlanta to Lovejoy?
It would not matter, the argument would be about who would pay for it public or private. Of course many will complain about the rampant inner city crime coming out to their pristine communities.
with some in Ga. the negativity and racism will always outweigh smart policy
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:18 am
“… commuting via mass transit is WAY more productive as well.”
you got that right – by the time I get in to the office, I’ve read the paper and the mister has caught up on all his overnight e-mail …
Mick
May 28th, 2010
8:20 am
Congrats peadowg – have a great weekend..
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
8:20 am
Gale – One stop at Cordoba
A CONSERVATIVE
May 28th, 2010
8:21 am
NOT ONE PEEP OUT OF SONGbird BOOKMAN on OBAMAs total incometence…NOT ONE WORD…CAT GOT YOUR TONGUE–???s KoolAid drinker..
md
May 28th, 2010
8:22 am
“Having driven south on I-75 a couple of times recently at rush hour, I bet a lot of those folks would be eager for another option. Anybody here make that commute regularly?”
I used to every day – but came up with a simple solution – I moved.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:22 am
“incometence”
thanks for that
Majority's Rules
May 28th, 2010
8:23 am
Hey! Where’s my food stamps! Who took my food stamps. Billy BoB! John Boy! Which one of you took my food stamps! Now, git out there and fetch me some firewood for the stove and quit using it all on that still. I done told yall for the last time. That corn’s for the pigs and chickens and us to eat, not drink. And fetch me another pail of water whilst your at it.
md
May 28th, 2010
8:27 am
“let’s face it … you don’t want RAIL … it’s too darned EUROPEAN (and we all know what that REALLY means) …”
It means they taxed the crap out of gas and added fees to drive cars into the cities so that everybody would take the train
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:31 am
md – “It means they taxed the crap out of gas and added fees to drive cars into the cities so that everybody would take the train”
London is the only city I know if with a “congestion charge” – and it’s worked wonderfully here – it’s increased cycling and improved traffic flow
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
8:33 am
The reason Gwinnett and Cobb voters refused to fund MARTA is because MARTA refused to commit to a time line to build rail service in the NE and NW corridors. MARTA proposed ‘Park&Ride’ bus service to connect to existing stations. How stupid is that?
commoncents
May 28th, 2010
8:34 am
I’m all for more rails and mass transit! Hopefully it will bring more money into our beautiful city, and there will be less traffic on the road for when I drive to work!
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:34 am
“The reason Gwinnett and Cobb voters refused to fund MARTA is because MARTA refused to commit to a time line to build rail service in the NE and NW corridors.”
sorry, Penn-ian, but I lived in Cobb during those discussions … I remember exactly what those concerns were – it had nothing to do with time frames
RW-(the original)
May 28th, 2010
8:34 am
Where’s Lovejoy and why on earth would I want to ride a train there? Oh well, if it’s high speed and only 26 miles why not….
just kidding, Hello day shift. Since you’re all here I guess it’s my turn to work again. See y’all this evening
P.S. Did any of you see that presser from yesterday? Baghdad Bob now seems credible for some reason. The hair dye from the weekly coloring must be seeping into Obama’s cranium.
Bye!
Moderate Line
May 28th, 2010
8:36 am
State lacks leaders with vision of ‘the next Georgia’
+++++++++++++++
If you go to New York, Washington, Seattle, Los Angeles or Chicago you will see Jay’s vision of the next Georgia. Where the people I know who make a comparable salary to myself commute 1 to 11/2 hours to work in order to pay for a house that cost twice as much as mine and is half the size.
Change is inevetiable, progress is not.
Interesting Observation
May 28th, 2010
8:36 am
Jay, all it takes is for a few Sadie Fields’ to scream that a politician is not religious enough and a social issue will be put on the ballot so quickly it will make your head spin. Need I say more?
FrankLeeDarling
May 28th, 2010
8:36 am
During holidays I visit in-laws in Greenville SC, and it is a bumper to bumper conveyor belt all the way.I might as well be sitting on a train having a drink.
md
May 28th, 2010
8:37 am
“London is the only city I know if with a “congestion charge” ”
I added that one just for you.
larry
May 28th, 2010
8:39 am
I think we are fixing to see how much people want rail service with the cuts MARTA is considering. I’d much rather spend money on rail than adding another lane to the interstates. We are about to run out of rooom. Remember how bad it was going to the Braves game before the Braves shuttle?
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:41 am
“Where the people I know who make a comparable salary to myself commute 1 to 11/2 hours to work in order to pay for a house that cost twice as much as mine and is half the size.”
hooray! so, let’s get rid of ANYthing that smacks of progress just so we can keep cost of living down … (we’ll just wave from our front porches as the rest of the world passes us by)
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:41 am
md – I thought so
md
May 28th, 2010
8:42 am
“Our political leaders seem far more intent on ganging up on some immigrant college kid than in getting this state out of its doldrums.”
This is why people get ticked about the ajc – a cheap shot.
We all know the issue is much bigger than “some immigrant college kid”.
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
8:42 am
USinUK – I do not know anybody who bought into that race baiting crap about MARTA bringing crime the the suburbs. You?
Scout
May 28th, 2010
8:42 am
“OFF TOPIC #1″
Yawn.
SOUTHERN ATL
May 28th, 2010
8:45 am
For the last past eight years, Georgia has literally gone down the tube… Most voters continue to focus on candidates that have swagger but have no intentions on serving “ALL” of the people of this state. There are so many issues that we face but employment, transportation, and education will affect most of us, directly or indirectly. When Saxby Chambliss was running against Jim Martin for the seat in Congress, the AJC journalist Wooten wrote an article entitled “It Is Vital That We Keep Saxby Chambliss”. What I fail to understand is; if a politician can hold an office more than two terms, why can’t they accomplish something that all citizens can benefit from? What real purpose does any politician have when they can hold lifetime positions for offices that should have strict term limits? Wake up Georgia!! We need vision/action and NOT swagger!!
Gale
May 28th, 2010
8:45 am
Thanks N-GA. So Madrid to Seville, one stop. And we are discussing a “high speed” rail between Atlanta and Macon with “5″ stops. That won’t be high speed.
md
May 28th, 2010
8:46 am
Rail – it has to start somewhere, and that is the problem – convincing 95% of the population that it needs to start for the 5% around the Lovejoy line.
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
8:46 am
The fare structure at MART is ridiculously low. If they would implement a time/distance variable fare like Washington’s Metro, they would not be in such a financial mess.
Shawny
May 28th, 2010
8:47 am
Atlanta to Lovejoy?!?!?
That is stupid.
Speaking of poor leadership, Marta is looking at cutting out bus service from Five Points to Turner Field. Don’t they know that this will result in NO ONE taking the train (lost revenue) to the games now? In addition, it will result in fewer fans attending games in general (more lost revenue).
So, we can’t go the game, but you want us to go to Lovejoy? huh?
I know that you feel it is a way for some to commute from the southside to Atlanta, so I understand. But what is probably more needed is another Marta rail connection down the I75S corridor to, say, the Southlake mall area and one up the I75N corridor to Marietta.
The current rail needs expansion. A lot of people don’t ride it because it doesn’t go where they need to go. Make it go everywhere like the Metro in D.C. and ridership will increase, effeciencies will be realized, and revenue will increase.
We don’t need some new fangled line to Lovejoy.
Mid GA Retiree
May 28th, 2010
8:47 am
Hey Rev. Al, what’s wrong with wanting to protect our “pristine” small, rural communities from rampant inner city crime? It may be normal for you, but not for those of us who live in rural parts of Georgia. On a more serious note, the comment, “what’s in it for me” is really the crux of the whole issue of rail transit. It will not affect Butler, or Cuthbert, or the other smaller communities in our state and maybe we just fear that rail transit will turn us into another bunch of flaming liberals. I think we need some kind of rail service, but whoever sells it to all Georgians needs to come up with a better line than just how it benefits Atlanta.
No Longer Republican
May 28th, 2010
8:47 am
Jay has some very good points. We have no one in Georgia who is “pitching” anything to get this state out its current condition. No one in the private sector at the moment, and definitely no one in the public sector. Our governor and state house and senate leaders are too busy playing politics and trying to keep power in their hands and the hands of their friends to actually do any sort of leading. But then you’ve got the morons who post on this board supporting them and you see whay the state of Georgia is 47th in education and soon to be worse. If only people would just use the brain God gave them instead of follow like sheep.
larry
May 28th, 2010
8:47 am
I know plenty of people that bought into that “race-baiting crap”.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:48 am
Penn – “I do not know anybody who bought into that race baiting crap about MARTA bringing crime the the suburbs. You?”
riiiiiiiiiiiight … 1970s Cobb County didn’t have race in mind when they voted against marta …
AmVet
May 28th, 2010
8:49 am
Good morning everybody, here in Hotlanta and elsewhere. Playing that tasty Santana piece Bruno selected last night. Niiice…
Notwithstanding, myopic, wrong headed and counterproductive politicians, springtime always confirms for me that Georgia is such a sweet place to live.
Enjoy the day, I’ll be back later to throw my two dozen cents worth in…
NRB2
May 28th, 2010
8:50 am
Might I suggest that all dumb liberals who want a financial black whole like “public transportation” just shut up and move to Vietnam then.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
8:50 am
Penn – 8:46 – totally agree with you on that – all mass trans fares should be based on distance travelled
FrankLeeDarling
May 28th, 2010
8:51 am
Transit aside,I think Jay is on the money about Georgia leadership,too many hillbilly blowhards that pander to the religious right and developers to line their pockets, with no vision of what Georgia could be,It’s just easier to Just bash Atlanta,liberals and those people.
md
May 28th, 2010
8:53 am
“But then you’ve got the morons who post on this board supporting them and you see whay the state of Georgia is 47th in education and soon to be worse.”
Care to expand on that “47″, or did you pick it to make your point?
Majority's Rules
May 28th, 2010
8:53 am
I’m just surprised that some resourceful entrepreneur has not developed a means of linking cars together and towing them with a single vehicle between major cities. Perhaps a series of auto-sized conveyor belts.
The Cynical White Boy
May 28th, 2010
8:55 am
Then again, in this new internet connected world….we could all decide to ….God forbid…arrange our lives where we actually WALK or bike to and from where we REALLY need to go. Ah, but then, obesity would go down and we wouldn’t have a chance to use our Obama care would we?
Matilda
May 28th, 2010
8:57 am
The “good ol’ boys” have shown us the limits of their interest in improving the quality of anything in this state and the full extent of their capabilities. Color me not impressed. It’s time to punt, people. To keep electing corrupt empty suits cut from the same cloth is the definition of insanity. It’s up to us to make it stop.
Majority's Rules
May 28th, 2010
8:57 am
And we are discussing a “high speed” rail between Atlanta and Macon with “5″ stops. That won’t be high speed.
You apparently have not sen the new ejector seat design. The seats have been shown to survive the impact and can be re-used multiple times.
Eric
May 28th, 2010
8:58 am
Atlanta’s gotten too big! Let’s stop growth and “progress” before we get into a further mess. Let’s keep business as usually and maybe people will move elsewhere, like Nashville or Birmingham. People are tired of “new visions,” so please give it a rest, Jay.
pcBobby
May 28th, 2010
8:58 am
Great column, Jay. There are just so many politically active folk in suburbia/exurbia who just don’t understand that the design of their neighborhoods are truly outmoded.
There are solutions out there, but they would rather say, “We shouldn’t have to pay for MARTA’s sins.”
OK, well then, what should we do? Their answer to the metro area’s transportation problems is installing plants on the centerstrip of their traffic-clogged roads. That idea is tantamount to putting lipstick on a pig.
Do these self-described politically engaged members of suburbia/exurbia have solutions to this and many other problems? No. Wait a minute, I stand corrected. They do have answers: tax cuts. We’ve had those before and look where that has gotten us-nowhere.
If all communities developed reliable, safe and affordable alternative transportation options, then our roads will be less clogged, air would be cleaner and we would rely much less on foreign oil from countries that wish to destroy us. Are those nuts and berries enviro-whacko ideas? To me, those solutions sound, dare I write it? Conservative?
Indeed, investments like a sales tax (isn’t that a cousin of the FAIR Tax?) in combination with private investors could make this happen. Yes, these self-described suburban/exurban politicos would of course yell, “Tax Increase!” But, if these investments are made up front, we all could save huge dollars in the future — not to mention the environment. It sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Citizen of the World
May 28th, 2010
8:58 am
Phoenix, Salt Lake City and Denver don’t have the kind of entrenched racism we have here. Originally, much of Atlanta’s rapid suburban and exurban population growth was spurred by white flighters, and now many of those same people (or their children) still think they can keep the riff-raff (i.e., blacks and others of dubious racial and ethnic heritage) out by keeping public transportation out. Wrong, of course, but look what that fear hath wrought — six, seven lanes of bumper to bumper traffic moving at a crawl during rush hour.
And just a few years ago in Gwinnett, they had an opportunity to join MARTA, but voted it down. I had to laugh and cry at the same time.
Majority's Rules
May 28th, 2010
8:59 am
Haven’t you heard, Matilda. The problems are all at the federal level. The state and local levels of government are already perfect, except for those that are still controlled by Democrats.
RB from Gwinnett
May 28th, 2010
9:02 am
I’d be a lot more supportive of MARTA if it wasn’t just another Atlanta jobs program run by incompetent people constantly whining about needing more money. Perhaps Jay and acutally do some reporting for a change and tell us how many people in the MARTA management system make over 100K while cutting service. That migh actually be useful reporting vs. this crap we get from him day after day after day.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
9:04 am
“Perhaps Jay and acutally do some reporting for a change and tell us how many people in the MARTA management system make over 100K while cutting service”
gosh … that sounds like pretty much EVERY company listed on the stock exchange …
Majority's Rules
May 28th, 2010
9:07 am
You cannot earn 100k flipping burgers no matter how many decades you do it. Them’s the rules.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
9:10 am
A 2 year old who smokes 2 packs a day? Oh my…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=64498
Pennsylvanian
May 28th, 2010
9:10 am
CotW @ 8:58 – “And just a few years ago in Gwinnett, they had an opportunity to join MARTA, but voted it down. ” Wrong. Gwinnett taxpayers were asked to fund MARTA, but would get no rail service.
white contractor
May 28th, 2010
9:12 am
Would MARTA or ATL hire me?
Citizen of the World
May 28th, 2010
9:12 am
RB @ 9:02, MARTA is not just another jobs program, it’s a vital part of Atlanta’s infrastructure that cleanly and efficiently moves thousands and thousands of people everyday for both work and recreation, which in turn generates tons of business and tax revenues.
And if you doubt the value of public transportation, just watch as other Southern cities like Charlotte overtake us in growth, prosperity and livability (which spurs further growth and prosperity) because they were proactive and forward-thinking about getting a good, regional transportation system in place.
Gale
May 28th, 2010
9:12 am
RB, it is an opinion blog. If you don’t like what Jay writes to spur discussion, you do not have to read his blog day after day.
@@
May 28th, 2010
9:13 am
I don’t follow the Lovejoy Rail issue, that closely, although the impact (as planned) would be direct for my area. I do get tired of everyone claiming it’s racism that’s the problem. The majority of Clayton County voters, predominately black, have said “NO” repeatedly. They don’t wanna pay for the cost of maintenance.
It do get tiresome for those of us (black and white) to be called racists, when, in fact, the reasons have nothing to do with that.
Enjoy discussing something about which you have no first-hand knowledge.
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
9:15 am
Kinda off topic, but hilarious:
http://www.ajc.com/news/driving-in-georgia-proceed-536912.html
“Georgia’s drivers are still below average, but improving, according to a nationwide survey by a leading auto insurer.”
@@
May 28th, 2010
9:15 am
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but you guys might want to read Kyle Wingfield’s series on MARTA, which ran last week, I think it was.
Bootsie
May 28th, 2010
9:15 am
How about rail from Macon to Chattanooga? That would be a good thing. On a tragic note, I’m working both Saturday and Monday.
Paulo977
May 28th, 2010
9:17 am
Mick YES
re: that “Gov’t is the problem 1980-2010″rant Oh absolutely . The irony is that Gov’t controlled standardized testing began its death hold at the same time!!!
Bombshell McGhee
May 28th, 2010
9:19 am
Our society is built around the automobile. Build public transportation and a couple of benefits would be your ugly kids won’t be so fat and you can get drunk in the afternoon without worrying about a DUI.
RB from Gwinnett
May 28th, 2010
9:21 am
Gale, that would be great for you wouldn’t it? The only major newspaper in the state of Georgia bought and paid for by the DNC spewing it’s socialist agenda to the masses unopposed.
Gee Gale, can you think of any other places in the world where socialist inclined people have total control of the media???? How’s that working out, Gale? Try thinking for a change.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
9:23 am
RB, can you tell the difference between a “reporter” and an “editorial writer”? Try thinking for a change?
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
9:26 am
Gale – Typically commuter rail lines schedule “local” trains and “express” trains. I expect that a line running from ATL to Macon would have both, so commuters could decide which they preferred. For example, an express 1-way might cost $25 and a local 1-way only $17. Demand would then dictate supply.
Daedalus
May 28th, 2010
9:27 am
Spill, baby Spill.
Spill here, spill now.
Enjoy your car.
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
9:29 am
Finn (your 9:23) – People in Gwinnett would hear a loud implosion.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
9:31 am
RB – “The only major newspaper in the state of Georgia bought and paid for by the DNC spewing it’s socialist agenda to the masses unopposed.”
dude. it’s a blog.
seriously … try some decaf …
Brad Steel
May 28th, 2010
9:33 am
Why would anyone want to go to backwater dumps like Lovejoy or Macon?
Sounds like a formula for creating more unnecessary bedroom commuter dumps and diluting the regional benefits of more densely developed Atlanta. Pretty short-sighted vision.
Real vision would be a high-speed regional interstate train to Greenville and Charlotte and extended to B’ham, Savannah and Orlando.
But expectations for the south to get-it-together are low. Guess we’ll just have to settle for a NASCAR museum.
clem
May 28th, 2010
9:33 am
We get what we vote for, and as long as we continue voting for people who have no vision but who shout I love Jesus the loudest, who shout I hate immigrants the loudest, who shout I hate Obama the loudest, and who shout I hate liberals the loudest, our state will continue to suffer.
newkid
May 28th, 2010
9:35 am
If it is true that most of our would-be leaders are reactive rather than introspective, one must consider the fact that for the past 60+ years our US geographical growth model has been prototypically suburbanization. These would-be leaders are – indeed we likely all are – imbued with that model. Even if they should, how likely is it that these would-be leaders are inclined to chase to ground questions related to the continued relevance of those non-organic factors (e.g., a McCarthy era governmental paranoia with the implications of nuclear attacks on city populations that were then the predominate mode of geographic growth) that drove the nation – in the late 1940s and beyond – to a suburbanization growth model?
Jay, would you please give today’s topic a bit more context by doing something in this space to put in context the factors that drove the nation to a suburbanization growth model? I’ve had a number of recent conversations with officials from Asian cities and provinces that are undergoing – or have already undergone – extremely rapid population growth in urban areas, and each was quite perplexed by the ‘logic’ behind our urban-suburban growth model.
Michael Smith
May 28th, 2010
9:35 am
More standard leftist nonsense urging more looting of the taxpayers so the state can carry out its grand vision of forcing us into whatever mode of transportation fascists like Bookman think should be rammed down our throats.
You’re a looter, Bookman, plain and simple. You look at the property of Georgia’s citizens as just one big pile of loot to be seized and spent as you or some other looter deems fit, regardless of what the owner of that money wants.
RB from Gwinnett
May 28th, 2010
9:37 am
“and who shout I hate liberals the loudest, our state will continue to suffer.”
Show us any city, state, or country run by liberals that isn’t a cesspool about to collapse financially. They’re all running out of other people’s money.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
9:37 am
I would support the Love Joy rail line if, and only if, it continued on to Savannah. And if taxes were not raised (plenty of waste in state government still left to cut)(arts council, judicial wages, school administrators,etc….) and no federal funds (they have no money and they are too corrupt).
That is the American way.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
9:38 am
“You look at the property of Georgia’s citizens as just one big pile of loot to be seized and spent as you or some other looter deems fit, regardless of what the owner of that money wants.”
ohfergawdssake …
Matilda
May 28th, 2010
9:39 am
“Why would anyone want to go to backwater dumps like Lovejoy or Macon?”
Um, let’s not have everybody move into MY neighborhood, which is already congested enough, mmmm-kay? It’s FINE to live out there in the exo-burbs! PLEASE! Move to the exo-burbs and don’t try to cram another McMansion on the little corner of undeveloped grass in my zip code! You wanna train to get back and forth? YES! Let’s build the trains!
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 28th, 2010
9:40 am
I don’t live in the Metro area, so it doesn’t effect me but my question is, why did they choose Lovejoy? What made it the community that needs rail more than some other outlying community? From my limited travels down that way, traffic is bad everywhere. Just curious.
otp to itp
May 28th, 2010
9:40 am
We’d rather deal with the trafffic.
Mind your own business.
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
9:41 am
“who shout I hate immigrants the loudest”
who shout I hate ILLEGAL immigrants the loudest. There, fixed your typo. No thanks needed.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
9:42 am
(plenty of waste in state government still left to cut)(arts council, judicial wages, school administrators,etc….)
Yep, you people need to just go to work and go to church and that’s all you need to do. And when we have a war we’ll come and pick your best men and women to go and protect all “this” that you are getting for your lab or.
You don’t need brains to be a world power do ya? Nah, the computer revolution didn’t take any brainy guys working in a garage…Let’s dumb it ALL down!
DoggoneGA
May 28th, 2010
9:45 am
“we’ll come and pick your best men and women to go and protect all “this” ”
No, no Finn…you can only take the men. Women will cause a drop in morale and readiness. AND increase is sexual activity instead of fighting!
Sid
May 28th, 2010
9:46 am
Why does everything here have to be about Democrat/Republican, or a black/white issue? When Democrats ran everything was Georgia not in the lowest tier of ranking for education? Was traffic not terrible when Democrats controlled politics? The reason we don’t move forward is that we’re too busy trying to blame the other guy. Sure, it’s more entertaining to fan the flames of discontent, but don’t pretend that this solves ANY problems we all face as Georgians.
RB from Gwinnett
May 28th, 2010
9:46 am
“RB, can you tell the difference between a “reporter” and an “editorial writer”? ”
Sure, I can. This state deserves “opinion” writers in it’s only major newspaper that are capable of having an opinion that isn’t 99.9% slanted to the far left. It deserves to be presented with balanced ideas and rational thought presenting all sides of issues and not just propoganda from either side. The AJC and Jay Bookman have failed the city/state in their duty as “journalists”. We the people deserve better.
t
May 28th, 2010
9:48 am
Jay, why don’t you be this leader and visionary you speak of? OH, I know why because then you would have to debate your thoughts and would have to come up with TRUE statements rather than the literary bombs you can throw from here. Again, there is a reason you are relegated to online blogs and that your newspaper is failing. It is thoughts like yours and Cynthia’s that have destroyed what was once a great news source. Now you are nothing but New York Times wannabes.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
9:48 am
“who shout I hate immigrants the loudest”.
Sheesh, there must be some of those “ignorant backwoods southern folks” up there. There’re even establishing a “narc” line. How progressive.
The Massachusetts Senate passed a far-reaching crackdown this afternoon on illegal immigrants and those who would hire them, going further, senators said, than any immigration bill proposed over the past five years.
The measure would also close what supporters say is a loophole that allows businesses to register cars under a company name, without identifying the owner by Social Security number and federal tax identification number. It would also crate a toll-free hot line for anonymous reporting of companies that employ illegal immigrants.
The measure comes weeks after immigration measures failed in the House, and amid heightened debate over illegal immigration fueled by the state’s election season and Arizona’s passage in April of the toughest immigration law in the nation.
The legislation also would increase penalties for driving without a license, one of the main problems facing illegal immigrants in Massachusetts. In November, a panel commissioned by Governor Deval Patrick urged him to push to grant driver’s licenses and in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, among many other recommendations. Patrick sent the recommendations to his cabinet for study and pledged to return with a proposal in 90 days, but the results have not been made public
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
9:52 am
…Let’s dumb it ALL down!
Don’t worry, Obama’s got that covered.
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
9:54 am
Sid, under which parties control did Marta get built? Under which party was the Federal funds first offered to develop the rail lines? That all came to a SCREECHING halt in 2000. Yet also look at the state’s population growth from 2000 forward as well as how many cars were added to our roads during that time as well… but not ONCE did they ever get serious about mass transit. They’re STILL not serious about it. Look at Wooten’s rant about mass transit.
Republicans: Keep your over-sized tonka trucks on the road and continue to support dealing with foreign terrorists! Mass transit saves WAY more oil compared to what can be produced by Spill Baby Spill.
Really?
May 28th, 2010
9:56 am
Comparing to Vietnam, really?
Moderate Line
May 28th, 2010
9:56 am
From Forbes:
But it’s important to note the trade-off: Sprawl increases driving times, but results in lower home prices. Places like Atlanta and the Inland Empire, along with many cities in Texas, have long commute times but very affordable housing. Homes in San Bernardino are $150,000 less that in Los Angeles, at the median level, and homes in Atlanta, Houston and Dallas are all well below the national home-price average of $206,000.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/24/cities-commute-fuel-forbeslife-cx_mw_0424realestate.html
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
9:57 am
“arts council, judicial wages, school administrators”
in reverse order … we don’t need school administrators??? we should just let the teachers run the school??? oh, yeah, that’s a GREAT idea … while we’re at it, let’s let the tellers run the banks, the cashiers run Publix and the delivery guys run Coca-Cola …
we don’t need a judiciary? seriously?
lastly – the arts. you numpties do realize that the arts are a revenue GENERATOR, don’t you? that, for every dollar spent on government funding, it’s multiplied by folks going out to dinner before/after a show, by folks paying for parking and the like – not to mention, improves the quality of life …
oy.
DirtyDawg
May 28th, 2010
9:57 am
My bet is that the price riders pay to take that train from Seville to Madrid is no more – if not less – than a ticket on the Southern Crescent (assuming that’s what they still call it)…plus Europe, and I believe that still includes Spain, committed to and invested in high-speed rail generations ago and have kept up with it – plus it’s also electric (and clean and quite). We’re paying the price of ‘it’s too expensive to get it started so don’t.’ line of thinking. The line from/to Lovejoy is just a start, plus every train wouldn’t have to include five stops – just as I doubt every one from Madrid to Seville is non-stop.
As for MARTA’s announcement to stop the shuttle to Turner Field…seems to me it’s their way of saying it’s time for the Braves, Underground, Central Atlanta Progress, the City and the State to ’step-up’ if they want something that they like that’s not paying it’s way. Obviously, the cost of operating the shuttle ‘way’ offsets the extra ridership. How about Coke wrapping every bus used in the shuttle in their logo – and help pay for the shuttle with ad dollars? Or if they have to add an extra fee for the shuttle – it’ll still be better than the hassle and cost of driving and parking – then the Braves could offer it as part of their season-ticket, or other ticket promotions. Skin the damn cat, people!
Really?
May 28th, 2010
10:00 am
I’ve been on those trains through Italy and it wasn’t exactly cheap.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
10:00 am
USinUK
So there would be no arts without taxpayer money?
Good try.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
10:02 am
we don’t need a judiciary? seriously?
Never said that. Those guys are waaaaayy overpaid. Good article in the AJC today about the abuse.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
10:03 am
RB, there’s a place for the type of “balance” you are looking for. It’s called Fox News, or NY Post, or TownHall.com
Sid
May 28th, 2010
10:03 am
Saul, thanks for the response, but that kinda points to what I was trying to say. The answer to the problem is not to point the finger at the other guy, but to actually do something positive to move Georgia forward. I agree that Republicans have done NOTHING to solve the transportation issue, but I don’t know that if Democrats had kept control that we’d be any further along. We need to quit looking at which party a candidate belongs to, and look more to who can provide the positive direction we need. We are so polarized that we only care about party affiliation, not who is the best candidate for the job. That’s why 99% of the posts on this blog offer no solutions, only “let’s blame it on the other guy”.
Independent
May 28th, 2010
10:04 am
USinUK…congestion pricing
Norway started in 1986, Germany in 2005, Sweden in 2007 and Italy in 2008. Most Euro cities you’ll pony up >$35 USD to park for day.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
10:04 am
DirtyDawg
I rode the train from Madrid to Seville too. Numerous times. Relatively cheap,(about 20 bucks 20 years ago. never full.
Gasoline 7 bucks a gallon.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
10:04 am
Truth – “So there would be no arts without taxpayer money?”
hey-HEY!! nice try at a binary argument … but no. that’s not what I’m saying.
what I AM saying is that there are a lot of smaller theaters, galleries, orchestras, etc, that would be forced to give up space, reduce their offerings, cut back on their educational outreach IF NOT for government spending.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
10:05 am
Independent – “Most Euro cities you’ll pony up >$35 USD to park for day”
criminey, try parking in NYC sometime – $35 would be CHEAP.
Finn McCool
May 28th, 2010
10:07 am
Truth Hurts is concerned with how our countries employees are paid. Who do you want in those jobs, truth? Burger flippers? Illegal immigrants?
Helping to run a country – librarians, judges, bus drivers, forest rangers, military – shouldn’t pay comparable to private jobs? How long do you think we will be an operating country – a world power – if we expect those making it all work to do it for nothing?
Get a clue.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
10:09 am
“Those guys are waaaaayy overpaid. Good article in the AJC today about the abuse”
got a linkee? can’t find the article you’re talking about.
Cekker
May 28th, 2010
10:10 am
Question — Why haven’t our state and city ‘leaders’ shown more interest in rail, high-speed or otherwise?
Answer — Because CW Mathews is not in the rail business.
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
10:14 am
Sid…. Agreed. I just want to see rail added here in GA SOMETIME in my lifetime REGARDLESS of which party is Running (Ruining?) the state.
USinUK
May 28th, 2010
10:18 am
fresh SQUIRREL upstairs …
Soothsayer
May 28th, 2010
10:18 am
Jay, somehow I just don’t think rail is the way to go. People just don’t like it. For better or worse, most people would rather drive than ride a train. When you ride a train you’re exposed. You know, you don’t have your privacy cocoon
Proud American
May 28th, 2010
10:20 am
Boo Hoo poor illegal immagrants
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
10:21 am
Sooth… go to New York or many of our other major cities and tell me how people just don’t LIKE trains. It’s the nightmare of traffic that they WILL avoid when they have the opportunity to do so. Me? I’d rather read a book, send some emails, or rant on talibangelicals on a blog like this instead of sitting in my car staring at the car in front of me.
Truth Hurts
May 28th, 2010
10:28 am
USnUk- ask and you shall receive. It is a pretty commen phenomonon here in Georgia.
ATLANTA — A Whistleblower 2 Investigation has found that a DeKalb County judge spent nearly $25,000 on travel expenses in a three-year period — more than twice that of any of her colleagues.
McCool-
I would take my chances with a burger flipper or illegal alien to dispense justice ANYDAY over a corrupt Bar of Georgia member. As per Jay, to a government judge, whoever pays the most money for legal council wins.
md
May 28th, 2010
10:41 am
Talk is cheap, but when it comes to action, the masses balk.
How many here think Clayton County would have turned down Marta had it been proposed that only those making over 250k would pay for it??
Totally different story when a flat 1% tax is discussed – then nobody wants to pay.
Rival
May 28th, 2010
10:43 am
First of all, it’s the Atlanta to Griffin line. Georgian for Passenger Rail are attempting to get the first leg pushed through to Macon.
Second, this isn’t about getting cars off the road; at least, no initially. This is about economic development. Improvements to the rail line will help passenger and freight operations. The Port of Savannah is going to be a huge deal when the Panama Canal is widened. There are two ways to get freight from Savannah to Atlanta: via interstate or over rail lines through Macon to Griffin to Atlanta.
The rail line will also help put cities back on the map that were hurt by the bypasses of interstates. It will also allow higher densities around those rail stations for people who want to live in an urban setting but not inside Atlanta city limits. That’s not such a bad thing.
The transportation benefits are ancillary at this point until a statewide network of passenger rail can be completed. That isn’t likely to happen within the next 50 years, sadly.
Please use your brains when thinking about this. It has little to do initially with passenger rail, commuting, suburban fears about MARTA-like transit.
Big D
May 28th, 2010
10:45 am
Mick, kinda left out the interstate system…Eisenhower/ Republican.
Big D
May 28th, 2010
10:48 am
Ride MARTA a few days and you will know why rail won’t work in Ga.
A CONSERVATIVE
May 28th, 2010
10:49 am
- The Obama-Atlanta-Urnal NEEDS WRITERS with integrity…& honesty…& objectivity….courage…vision…Not WHITE HOUSE flinkies.
williebkind
May 28th, 2010
11:03 am
Well Jay it is hard to remember the main objective is to drain the swamp when you are up to your butt in alegators. That is the sucess the progressive liberals are enjoying. There is lways a diversion from the normal to the vile and disgusting by the liberals. When socialists attack, although in most cases very subtly, it is alwasy directed at the core of beliefs and values. Visions are set aside to protect core values. Just like Jay, he is not from Ga but a transplant who wants to change Ga to be like his former state or maybe in his image. I think only native born citizens of Ga should be qualified to run for Ga public offices. I do not appreciate Chicago style politics.
laissez faire
May 28th, 2010
11:17 am
“Around the country, that revised development model is being driven not by government dictate but by the market and demographics. There’s no serious doubt in the industry about the staying power of that change.”
Take a walk to the west end and see what happens IN THIS CITY when it’s tried..publix just said adios to the theory also. People want space and yards and privacy, not other damn people elbow to elbow. The so called modern urbanism is no different than the 1900’s urbanism that spurred the growth of suburbia.
laissez faire
May 28th, 2010
11:19 am
MARTA..our escalators mostly work now, and we hope they will be hobo urine free by 2025! Please please ride us..
newkid
May 28th, 2010
11:22 am
Rival said:
“The Port of Savannah is going to be a huge deal when the Panama Canal is widened.”
Don’t miss the significance of this.
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
11:28 am
williebkind : “I think only native born citizens of Ga should be qualified to run for Ga public offices”
Really? Really now? I wonder just how many people we’ll be able to disqualify in the coming elections… (btw: are you sure you didn’t just mean “Yankees)?
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
11:34 am
Willie…I guess you should break the news to Tom Graves… he was born in St. Petersburg FL. Please notify him at once to tell him of his disqualification.
np
May 28th, 2010
11:36 am
I am old enough to remember when the Nancy Hanks train ran between Atlanta and Savannah. I went to Tift college in the 60’s and whenever I wanted to ride to Atlanta, Macon or Savannah, I simply bought a ticket and was told to put out a metal flag to stop the train so I could board.. When I rode to Savannah, I could read or sleep in the cushy seat with a plump pillow or walk to the dining car to have a meal or coffee. Very rational, elegant, civilized,and non-Socialist mode of transport. At soon as they finished I-75, the train died. I believe it was because the political decision had been made to favor the auto companies, oil companies and road builders over passenger rail. Now we are sending a huge percentage of our national wealth to oil producing countries that hate our guts and would gladly destroy us just so we can drive three blocks to the grocery store or sit in traffic for hours on interstates. Our state leadership is ineffectual because all they wanted public office for is to line their pockets. This state is desperately in need of true public servants with some vision beyond their own greed.
Bombshell McGhee
May 28th, 2010
11:53 am
Your kids are fat and your fatter, put down the car keys and the cinnamon bun and go for a stroll….
Sextet
May 28th, 2010
12:02 pm
WIth the way the commies fought in ‘Nam, you’d have thought that the high speed commie rail would be a subway, underground. I know one thing: the caboose wont red, it’ll be pink, no, it could be red too, cause red is also commie, like the red states in America, which are ironically commie, in that their fascist and only grow on kinder fear, gentler hate and collateral war.. Steve Wynn of Vegas said that the Tea Party is all about fear. He said that our system of government will work until the politicians discover that they can bribe the electorate with their own money, which he sez is already happening. (He quoted someone from 1909) He thinks we’re heading to a destiny similar to Greece. “the politicians are ruining us”
He sounds grimly fatalistic. What a buy signal, eh?
Steve
May 28th, 2010
12:33 pm
I would be shocked if that project could be done for $400 million. I would guess multiples of that amount.
milehighdawg
May 28th, 2010
12:43 pm
Whats sad is we HAD rail up to the 50s. Atlanta had a viable streetcar system, and you could get pretty much anywhere via local rail service. If it worked once it can work again.
But this state’s racial climate and lack of leadership is hopeless so I don’t imagine I’ll ever enjoy some level of rail service in my lifetime. Maybe my great-grandkids but not me.
But criticize the Euros all you want but they are laughing at us.
uhoh
May 28th, 2010
12:44 pm
Maybe the MARTA mess has them thinking 2x?
Glass House Rocker
May 28th, 2010
12:51 pm
Developers buy land cheaply outside the city and its ” surburbs”. The government then widens a road to accommodate the new growth–which is supposed to bring in more money in taxation because of increased property values. Thus the ever expanding utopia of suburbia.
Unfortunately, this requires a prioritization of funds. Often, the maintenance of existing infrastructure is but on the back burner or ignored completely. I recall a study about 30 years ago which listed bridges throughout Georgia which were in real need of repair. Many were in the Metro area. A recent TV news report showed engineers in Atlanta taking rather inventive steps to shore-up some of these same bridges.
Bridges are a very expensive part of construction of a new road. A new road and bridge is under construction just south of Rome. I suppose this is a southerly route to bypass Downtown.
A road–including bridges–has just opened to by-pass downtown Cedartown. Driving though Cedartown is just as fast as taking the by-pass.
This construction is along US Route 27, a North-South corridor in the western part of the State. One can literally drive for miles without seeing another vehicle. How much do these projects cost? Why were these projects given priority over what seem to be far more urgent needs?
In the 1970’s GDOT had an overall plan for a North-South Connector between I-85 and I-20. It was deliberately initiated as a plan to improve a section of Mountain Industrial Blvd. in Tucker. It turned into Jimmy Carter Blvd. How did that turn out–a real boon for the motoring public?
The width of the lanes in the Downtown Connector cannot be reduced any more. Double decking is a possibility–but, the impact on traffic flow might be disastrous. I guess the folks back in the 1950’s who planned for two Interstate highways to meld into one through downtown Atlanta kinda miscalculated–just as the mayor did regarding water from Lake Lanier.
Atlanta had a very serviceable public transit system for years prior to MARTA. One could get on a bus in one’s neighborhood and go to one’s destination for a very inexpensive fare. Any form of public transportation must go where the public wants to go–duh.
Public transportation? trains? High-speed rail? Right-of-way costs?–GDOT has its own staff of appraisers. GDOT builds roads. How many contractors and suppliers of construction materials bid on these projects? Would these same people be able to bid on the construction of a rail line? EVERYONE knows from experience that the next road is going to cure all the traffic congestion. That’s what GDOT and Georgia’s politicians have done for years.
Two old sayings come to mind. One is follow the money. The other is what’s the definition of stupid?
The future holds no guarantee–even with competent planning. However, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is the definition of stupid. I am talking about us. We keep electing the same people, or the same type people, and expect different results.
williebkind
May 28th, 2010
1:05 pm
Saul Good
May 28th, 2010
11:28 am
I will be glad to tell them Saul. No I mean only Ga. citizens.
williebkind
May 28th, 2010
1:09 pm
Saul since Tom Graves is in the 9th district I know very little about him. But since he is a transplant, I say he should not be qualified to run. Hey that applies to progressive liberals too.
I Report/You Decide
May 28th, 2010
1:26 pm
High speed light rail! Awesome! Brought to you by the same responsible and efficient people that gave us MARTA! I can hardly wait!
I Report/You Decide
May 28th, 2010
1:28 pm
Bookman, when you say “leaders with vision” you essentially mean the same leftist wackos who have given us places like Detroit, New Orleans, and Los Angeles, correct? I can hardly wait.
Jay
May 28th, 2010
1:35 pm
No, Decider, I explicitly list the places I meant — Salt Lake, Denver, Phoenix, plus others I did not list, such as Charlotte.
And yet you come up with this quite different list based on …. what, I wonder?
Gee, what could it be?
Shawny
May 28th, 2010
1:40 pm
Here is a federal leader with vision, President Obama:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/28/white-house-asked-clinton-urge-sestak-drop-senate-race/
Forget the part of whether this was unethical or not, remember how the prez, when running against the Washington establishment, continues to support the Washington establishment.
yada yada yada, blah blah blah. That is what you SHOULD be hearing when he talks.
The Carnivore
May 28th, 2010
2:03 pm
Yes, but Phoenix, Salt Lake City and Denver do not have the black problem that we have.
Why don’t you ask Lenox and Perimeter Malls how much they like rail right outside their doors?
professional skeptic
May 28th, 2010
2:10 pm
Michael Smith
May 28th, 2010
9:35 am
You’re such a hack. You and all the other backwards conservatards lose all credibility whenever you complain about public funding for mass transit — as long as the federal government steals from future generations to pay for today’s oil wars and subsidizes the HECK out of the oil and road building industries.
Try again, ya big hack.
Jay
May 28th, 2010
2:11 pm
Ahhh, ‘the black problem.’
The topic is vision and commuter rail programs, but it seems we must talk about ‘the black problem.’ And thus the mask slips….
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
2:12 pm
I can’t wait to see the retorts to The Carnivore’s 2:03. I betcha he/she wishes he/she could delete it!
N-GA
May 28th, 2010
2:13 pm
Jay – It would seem that the T-Nuts are opposed to rapid rail. They have spoken their truth!
professional skeptic
May 28th, 2010
2:17 pm
The Carnivore
May 28th, 2010
2:03 pm
Oh yeah, the Cobb county corridor surrounding I-75, South Cobb Dr., etc., with its endless array of strip malls and fast food joints is SO MUCH CLASSIER than the Buckhead business and shopping district.
Try again…
Cherokee_resident
May 28th, 2010
2:20 pm
As a person who had to make the commute from Cherokee county to midtown everyday, I would have loved to have the option of taking the train. My solution? I bought a condo in midtown and kept my house in the “burbs”. My wife and I did not want to give up our home, but the commute was just a killer. I really like living in midtown, but wow is it expensive! The property taxes on my one bedroom condo are twice what I pay for my 3br, 3 bath home in Cherokee county.
professional skeptic
May 28th, 2010
2:29 pm
np
May 28th, 2010
11:36 am
Now we are sending a huge percentage of our national wealth to oil producing countries that hate our guts and would gladly destroy us just so we can drive three blocks to the grocery store or sit in traffic for hours on interstates.
It boggles my mind that the Conservative, gasoline dependent masses out in exurbia generally claim to be patriotic — AND YET — would rather fork over trillions of dollars of American money to oil producing countries that despise us, instead of keeping it here at home to invest it in the infrastructure America so sorely needs.
Nacho Daddy
May 28th, 2010
3:33 pm
Invest in viagra stock, Rush is marrying a 33 yr old.
Big D
May 28th, 2010
4:14 pm
Jay, I agree we need people to run the state with vision and I would be the first to say Sonny did not have it. I will also say that Roy Barnes did not have it either and will never acquire it.
Have a safe holiday one and all.
Joe
May 28th, 2010
8:32 pm
I guess as long as its Republicans in charge you will see no furure Jay. Why don’t you pack your bags and move to one of those democrat controlled bankrupt states? At least our leaders are able to balance the budget unlike the dems in Washingotn who just print more money…. I cold only imagine if dems did run Georgia. The ones of us who actaully have a job would be paying enormous taxes to support more and more entitlement programs….
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 28th, 2010
9:03 pm
mmm, mmm, mmm….Stocks End May With Worst Showing in More Than a Year
zeke
May 28th, 2010
10:38 pm
GO AWAY JAY!!!! NO RAIL NO MORE! BAN MARTA!
Not A MARTA Fan
May 29th, 2010
9:55 am
Peadawg
May 28th, 2010
8:01 am
“Anybody here make that commute regularly?”
I live in Athens and try to avoid Atlanta at all costs. The only time I go anywhere near Atlanta is I-285 south to I-85 to Biloxi.
PeaDawg, I live in Downtown Decatur and I avoid MARTA and Atlanta at all costs. There is nothing left in downtown atlanta except the idiots who are trying their best to color it black and make it another Zimbabwe.
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
May 29th, 2010
11:35 am
How about DC need leaders with VISION and not glaucoma.
Corey
May 30th, 2010
12:16 pm
I was downtown yesterday. While waiting for the Caribbean Festival Parade to get underway I had a conversation with a woman who traveled here from Connecticut. She said everyone here is so friendly, and the place is beautiful. She said this is the friendliest city she has ever visited. She also mentioned that everywhere she went on the MARTA trains as soon as she stepped onto the platform people offered assistance in providing directions. I asked her if she read any of the comments on our local blogs.
Valese
May 30th, 2010
11:14 pm
Parents have to practice the four (4) basic ingredients that all children need to achieve academic success. Go to http://www.readtomeamerica.com to find out what the ingredients are.
Also, get your CD…Teach Me How To Read…So I Can Succeed. The CD promotes literacy and parental involvement.
http://www.readtomeamerica.com
vuduchld
May 31st, 2010
1:55 am
The “leaders” of Jawja are one big joke. Your state, for all it’s crowing about being the “engine of the New South” is slowly choking itself like a redneck choking on a chicken bone. Other ciites and regions are rapidly taking your place as you dither and propose new jungles built of asphalt. That scenario has become obsolete, you folks are just too dumb to realize that.
So please. stop blaming illegal immigrants for your souring fortunes because that excuse is way past over. You have no leaders, plain and simple, just a bunckh of “critters” who think they can lead. I lived in the state for 22 years until recently and as I read the nonsense posted here online I laugh at you stupid, silly people. Keep voting for brain dead zombies like Ox and Handel. When your state reaches Mississippi’s status I sure as hell won’t feel sorry for you!
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
7:40 am
my favorite argument against trains to the suburbs is –> ” but all our flatscreen TVs are still on the wall and you can travel for miles without seeing a black face.”
gimme a break you racist idiot. Do you really think that a robber is going to take MARTA to come rob your house? LMFAO…and then carry your flat screen onto the train???
A CONSERVATIVE
May 31st, 2010
8:40 am
WHY LIMIT YOUR SIGHTS JUST TO GEORGIA…ANERICA NEEDs leaders with vision……the Obama-Atlanta-Urnal could use some leaders with common sense..
A CONSERVATIVE
May 31st, 2010
8:42 am
WITH TRAIN SERVICE…black felons from ATLANTA…CAN BRANCH OUT & start robbing in the BURBs..JAY id toooooooo politically correct to mention the downside.
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
9:27 am
HAHAHA you dont get out much do you A CONSERVATIVE! You might be surprised to know that the “black felons” have cars where they live now. You are a racist idiot. Just because your worried about illogical things like theives 30 or 40 miles away drooling over your flatscreen tv, doesn’t mean the rest of the citizens of Atlanta want or need to burn so much gasoline to get around and do non illegal stuff like ..go to work and get groceries
.
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
9:37 am
and to all the people complaining that Obama and BP arent doing enough to stop and prevent oil leaks in the gulf: They aren’t to blame. It’s you and me that are to blame. For our insatiable need to drive everywhere. As long as we demand oil, they will continue to pull it out of the ground. …and as long as they pull it out of the ground, there will be accidents like the one in the gulf, regardless of the level of technology and oversight.
period. end of story.
wight
May 31st, 2010
10:35 am
This is an interesting blog. The question is why is so much of the Georgia Government in Macon? Who wants the rail to Macon? Who will use use the rail?
The need for rail is in the Metro area, but because of the low population density, it is difficult to get from say Marietta to Doraville. MARTA should be rolled into a Metro area (13 counnty) agency with a Board of directors from across the area. Marta is a hub and spoke system that makes it difficult to go east and west.
The above comments about the huge expenditures to bypass cedartown and others is much of the problem. Money from the Metro area pays a lot of these roads which are great for the area(s), but do not help the economic viability of the Georgia economy.
If all fo you “bashers” would support the changes to the way money is evenly distributed across Georgia instead of needs, then many problems can be fixed. (This is the problem Sonny has tried to fix, but the rural legislatures don’t want to give up their pot of Metro money). Beside the Atlanta Metro area, Macon, Savannah, Augusta and Valdosta needs to be evaluated for needs rather than spend the way it is now. If the tax money generated within a District were spent only in that District, the problems of Metro Atlanta could have been solved years ago
Base
May 31st, 2010
10:39 am
Great piece!
zeke
May 31st, 2010
11:59 am
GEEZE! What a load of horse hockey! Marta has delivered crime to all areas it serves! Go to Lennox or Phipps any night, especially the weekends! Hordes of young punk thugs ride the train to and from those high dollar shopping malls and the other high dollar venues and homes! THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT SHOPPING OR LOOKING TO BUY A HOME! THEY ARE CASEING THE AREA FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY! LIBERALS, DEMOCRATS AND UNIONS ARE KILLING OUR GREAT COUNTRY! RAPEING HONEST HARD WORKING TAXPAYERS, SPREADING THE WEALTH AROUND! THAT WE NEED NO MORE! AND YES, WE DO NOT WANT TO BECOME THE SCUM EURO SOCIALISTS! NO WE DO NOT WANT HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENT! IF RAIL IS TO BE A SMALL PART OF THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM, IT WILL ONLY BE IN COMPETITION TO THE AIRLINES: LONG DISTANCE VERY FEW STOPS, DEDICATED RAIL, NO PEDESTRIAN OR AUTOMOTIVE CROSSINGS OR FREIGHT TRAINS! SOME EXAMPLES: RICHMOND TO DALLAS OR HOUSTON WITH ONE STOP IN RALEIGH, GREENSBORO, CHARLOTTE, GREENVILLE, ATLANTA, BIRMINGHAM, SHREVEPORT, DALLAS! MYRTLE BEACH TO ATLANTA WITH ONE STOP EACH IN FLORENCE, COLUMBIA, AUGUSTA, ATHENS! IT MUST ONLY BE LONG DISTANCES, LIMITED ACCESS! INNER CITY IS RIDICULOUS, TOO EXPENSIVE, INEFFICIENT, UNSAFE, COST INEFFECTIVE, REQUIRES CONSTANT, NEVER ENDING SUBSIDIES!
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
12:10 pm
That’s ridiculous——> INNER CITY IS RIDICULOUS, TOO EXPENSIVE, INEFFICIENT, UNSAFE, COST INEFFECTIVE, REQUIRES CONSTANT, NEVER ENDING SUBSIDIES!
..and are you really saying MARTA only brings crime? I would NEVER go to Lenox or Phipps if it weren’t for Marta. IAnd what about all the people who visit our city via the airport…(It’s Marta that carries them around), should they not have access to Lenox? Is that mall only for people with BMW’s and Land Rovers?
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
12:14 pm
your a racist zeke. disgusting. foul. backward racist
wakeuptime
May 31st, 2010
12:54 pm
…and unless your business or home is within a few blocks of a marta station, then i doubt its transporting any criminals to you zeke. If criminals are going to the burbs from atlanta, its by car zeke.
shirley
May 31st, 2010
1:45 pm
Visionary leadership is part of the answer. The media has sat on its hands these last years in covering state government and state public policy. Investigative, thought provoking, analytical reporting in the daily media is part of the answer too.
Base
May 31st, 2010
5:21 pm
Sonny a leader,what a joke,he stops the outer perimeter, gives us GRTA express buses because it is cheap and builds more roads in South Georgia.